At first, I was like "Ok so he's gonna explain a more convoluted Ranger or something that could be a Ranger subclass" but in the end, I like the class quite much. It feels distinct enough to call it a class and have some very unique traits.
I feel like the Grimoire is a good idea, but also limiting. What if you choose certain monsters, and they don’t come up, or as time goes on you face them less and less, your character becomes less effective. Maybe allow the player to swap creature types every long rest, like a wizards spell book, but you are still effective against 2-3. This encourages the player to still examine, and scout the enemy without reducing their power. Or maybe every 2 levels you can add another creature. Either way, I love how this class looks. A different take on the rogue, but has its very own flavor. It’s doing something that the Ranger didn’t. Keep up the good work!
one change that i think could be made to ensure that the class doesnt become antiquated based simply on campaign direction is a slight tweak to the grimoire. i would keep the grimoire improvements as they are, but also add the opportunity to add new creature types by defeating them in combat aswell. perhaps after defeating 3 or 4 different enemies of a creature type, you can then add that creature to your grimoire. such as 4 different types of undead (example: zombies, ghouls, skeletons, dhampir). this would add a great versatility to the class that you can actually earn by playing, and would ensure that you dont get soft locked out of class features if the campaign lacks your chosen enemies.
@chiefbigsad7995 they mentioned why they didn't go this route in the video. If they did it this way, the identity of the class would be removed. They want you to study your enemies, find weaknesses, prepare, and then go for the kill. If you just murder hobo everything, you're now just a fighter or barbarian.
As a fighter player with a thirst for somthing unique and interesting, this makes me giddy, especially being able to call in m ally’s for attacks, I have always been a fan of some of the commander oriented fighter classes new and old that let me get my friends involved in my turn to keep everyone involved and engaged.
This looks awesome! I've got an NPC temporary companion/advisor from previous campaigns who we're about to play with as a younger character and this is perfect for him. Thanks!
one change that i think could be made to ensure that the class doesnt become antiquated based simply on campaign direction is a slight tweak to the grimoire. i would keep the grimoire improvements as they are, but also add the opportunity to add new creature types by defeating them in combat aswell. perhaps after defeating 3 or 4 different enemies of a creature type, you can then add that creature to your grimoire. such as 4 different types of undead (example: zombies, ghouls, skeletons, dhampir). this would add a great versatility to the class that you can actually earn by playing, and would ensure that you dont get soft locked out of class features if the campaign lacks your chosen enemies.
I can't believe some of the responses here- I think this is a solid class that covers a role that's much broader than what one might expect. I remember in your previous videos where you covered how the Monster Hunter works, and how the Monster Slayer Ranger leans more into the magical side as opposed to the true grittiness that famous monster hunters thrive in. (If you really want magic, just multiclass friends) That might've been why so many others didn't gel so well with it either- you're more like a mage slayer, not a MONSTER slayer. I do miss Grave Strike just being part of the MH's arsenal, but Studied Response is just as good- probably better in terms of balance. Makes it so it's not just "Rogue, but tanky." We need more martial-focused classes in general, and I think this is well on its way to being a great one to play.
5:46 The way Expert Attack is worded would imply that Intelligence is added in addition to whichever base attribute you're attacking with. Is that the case?
The idea of an intelligence based martial class is a stroke of genius. Most of the time in D&D (and other RPGs) Martial classes are defined either by strength or agility - a great weapon or rapier approach to combat. In either case, intelligence is a popular dump stat with players of Martial classes, so you often end up with either a strong meathead or a graceful idiot, but that doesn't fit with the imagery surrounding a monster hunter who will often find themselves fighting alone, or as part of a small group, against creatures that severely outclass them in terms of raw physical potency. If such a hunter is going to consistently survive and triumph against such odds then they will have to fight with their wits at least as much as their muscles and reflexes. The notion of an expert monster hunter - who knows the behaviours, habitats, strengths and weaknesses of the creatures they specialise in hunting - offers a truly appealing class fantasy. The idea of the precision of a master hunter who plans out how to tackle their chosen mark in meticulous detail, who has made a study of the creatures they hunt and laid the ground work for victory ahead of time by arming themselves with knowledge as much as weapons, offers all kinds of options for story telling and role playing. The obvious (though still ridiculously awesome) Geralt of Rivia type characters being one route you could take with a character, but you can just as readily have the grizzled veteran hunter who has seen it all and knows that, since they are no longer as young as they once were, they must find other ways of levelling the playing field. The obsessive, 'Captain Ahab' type hunter who is absolutely driven by their desire for vengeance or need to wipe a particular type of hated creature from the face of the Realm, but who is not so lost in their lust for revenge that they lack the ability to hone their knowledge and skill to better their odds of achieving the goals they seek (they might even have their own 'White Whale' in a particularly dangerous beast they have been hunting for years but have yet to bring down). The hard bitten professional monster hunter for whom monsters are both a scourge that needs to be eliminated but also each represent a bounty that is part of their way of life, or maybe they primarily see their prey as simply a source of alchemical indigents that can be sold for a handsome profit to alchemists and mages - straight forward supply and demand with no aspirations to any higher calling. The Professor Van Helsing type man of learning who has been forced to turn his hand to monster hunting by circumstance and now leverages the knowledge he has gained from a life spent in pursuit of academia the better to rid the world of the vile creatures that haunt its shadowed places. There really is no end to the possibilities I also like the idea of possibly multiclassing a Monster Hunter who specialises in using gadgets to bring down their prey with an Artificer (another intelligence based class that seems likely to pair well with the Monster Hunter) to really bring the power of innovation and new technologies to the hunt.
I like this class. The expert strike fearure is cool but i still think multiattack is necessary for a marital. I liked the original version with grave strike where you could forgo multiattack for a single attack that does more damage. I get lots of things combo with expert strike but the loss of multiattack gets rid of lots of martial utility especially in limiting you to only being able to attack one creature a round. The reaction strike is decent but still uses the reaction. I personally think the option to use multiattack or expert strike was a good feature and allows for deciosions eavh round that make you feel good for picking the right option for the circumstances of the round
Kind of interesting how the scene seemingly used to show off someone just swinging their weapon around. Was a scene from Demon Slayer where the exact opposite was going on. Pretty sure that when they had study the demon’s attacks and could dodge and react to them every time at that point
If they're not going to get a second attack, gaining an additional reaction a little later makes sense. If they're proficient in the monster type that they're fighting then I think giving them an additional reaction would be really cool. They already know how to react to monsters but these specific monsters they know in and out. This would also allow them to use some of their other reactions if needed. Overall it seems like a really fun class. Good job!
Should studied response read when an enemy takes the attack action instead of a weapon attack? Would that exclude natural weapons like claws or unarmed attack like a giant stomping.
Claws, fists, and gnashing teeth are all considered weapon attacks. Some monsters do have "Spell Attacks" which don't trigger Studied Response, unless you are a hunter from the Occultist Guild. Monster stat blocks specify in the attack description whether it is a "weapon" or "spell" attack.
Any news on Aetherial Expense setting. I pre-ordered the pdf in December and I'm wondering when it will be avaible for download . I have the same question for Sunken Islands. I haven't bought that yet but I'm interested. Thank you
I'd certainly want to play a Devourer, but I wonder if it would be possible to spec towards eating only specific monsters that would give specific bonuses; for example, if I was a Human Devourer that just consumed insects or insect monsters (such as Ankhegs, Thri-keen, Umberhulks, etc.), would I gain a hard carapace? Could my eyes morph into compound eyes to increase perception? Would two antennae sprout out of my head to give me a buff to darkvision? Sounds quite exact I know, but damn would it make for some awesome combinations =)
Currently, yes! That may change in future if the 2024 core rogue changes to Sneak Attack only working once per round, as was in an Unearthed Arcana. But for now, it’s a pretty powerful combo.
Making studied response only a reaction is great, sells it really well. But I miss the bonus action feature of learning the enemy's stats. Studying the monster during combat I think really sells the fantasy of it, and an action to investigate seems too costly At the same time I like the bold choice of not including multiattack, and I think leaning into it would be very cool and differentiate it from other martials if they were encouraged to use their action to study the monster or employ gadgets which would amp up the next studied response instead of using the attack action. Just a thought.
This is solid. Sounds like a class with a great chance at both combat and RP, and could make those travel days a lot more interesting 🤔 I love the idea of not needing to fight to find tour place in a party but having an easy way to be integral to the game.
Question about the Lair Sense feature. Does it need to rewritten (eventually) to account for the fact that WotC are writing Legendary Actions out of the game? Mordenkeinen's has been replacing them with additional Reactions.
Good question! For those who haven't made it to the Discord (yet!), as Shawn said we'll be waiting to see how monsters look when the new Monster Manual arrives before finalizing the class features.
It kinda just sounds like Blood Hunter without the blood magic and some Monster Slayer elements. I'll wait for the final version, but as it is, I'm not really seeing anything groundbreaking in terms of mechanics. Thematically, it sounds like a great class for roleplay though, so I'll give it that!
It seems more like a job with extra steps, or a new career path mechanic, not enough of a wide net, mechanically and fundamentally, to deem it nessicary to make it a class like a Fighter and all its subclasses
This is thematically the hunter ranger, including studied response as a reactive hunter’s mark and the monster grimoire favored enemy list, but if the mechanics already there don’t do the job you want, make new mechanics, right? I wonder if some ways you’ve done it might be more fun than how the ranger did it.
The class is also Intel based so in my opinion it's distinct enough. And I'm not sure what you're saying about Hunter's Mark, it doesn't work at all like Studied Response
“Weapon attacks” include claws, jaws, and scything blades. It’s a 5e rules term that distinguishes a physical attack from “spell attacks” typically made while casting a spell.
Sounds a little similar to the Investigator class from Pathfinder, although the flavoring is very different and the features differentiate it enough that they could both reasonably exist in the same world.
I'm working on a feywild setting where all the PCs are children lost in the feywild and meet and fight against fables and the monster hunter could be such a good class for a kid that was obsessed with fairytales and is now a fountain on knowledge for the rest of the party since they are in the realm where those fairytales are, in fact, real!
I have a subclass that I've been homebrewing and I think this will be perfect for it cause it'll be like a van helsing werewolf class. Plus I've been trying to find a intelligence based martial class for this sub class.
I was listening to this and thinking about rpg horror stories of metagaming players, but those specific kinds who like can't help themselves from wanting to immediately use a monster's weakness. Even tho their character might have no feasible reason to just know that info, or like the best way to take down the boss monster easy. I feel like this would be a good class for these players, giving them an in universe reason to know the irl info they might know. I know I've dealt with players like this before as a dm, even been guilty of it myself playing.
Hey I am planning on making a Human Monster Hunter the big bad for my campaign. In a nutshell he was betrayed by a city that hard him to protect them. Is there stat blocks to make him a villain? If not I have a general idea but would love and appreciate some guidance.
As with many new rules being playtested at the moment, we're still in early days. The Monster Hunter will be part of our next Grim Hollow Kickstarter, which is launching in October this year.
The Kickstarter for this project is live right now and includes D&D Beyond support as a pledge reward. So yes! www.kickstarter.com/projects/ghostfiregaming/grim-hollow
Will this supplement be added to dnd beyond at some point. I would like to purchase it, but I move around alot, so I don't want to buy a bunch of physical books.
Any class that attacks with a weapon. Given that you attack before the creature does, I think I would have it cost your bonus action to set up to use, removing that restriction at a higher level. And that you cannot use it when surprised.
Totally aware a 2014 rogue would be quite powerful with Studied Response, using two Sneak Attacks per round. If the final 2024 rogue only gets Sneak Attack once per round (instead of per turn) that may no longer be an issue. Or we could look at moving Studied Response to 5th level. Studied Response currently cannot be used if the Monster Hunter is surprised, because it requires a reaction.
@@GhostfireGaming You get your reaction after your turn during the 1st round. Requirement of using the bonus action to set that up would prevent that. Otherwise, if your initiative is higher than the creature(s) that surprised you, you could Studied Response them.
When I finally get my hands on my copy of the Citadel of the Unseen Sun adventure, I plan on having my party meet a Tiefling Monster Hunter that will help them on their quest to escape from the Ostoyan Necropolis. He has the Carver Guild Subclass and uses a broadsword in battle, you might have a good idea on who he's based off of.
New transformations??? Oh I hope we get Lamias or arachne. What does a transformation into those look like? Ether way I am excited for future Grim hollow.
They are a martial class that tend towards ranged or melee weapons (as opposed to spells). If you're campaign features firearms such as black powder weapons, then a Monster Hunter would be proficient with those weapons.
Humanoids as a monster type make it difficult specialise in hunting monsters that fall in that category without accidentally catching all humanoid-type creatures or the category becoming too niche. So there’s a couple of these edge cases of monsters like goblinoids and lycanthropes. That said, including “humanoid (goblinoid)” as a type of monster to expertise in, similar to “humanoid (shapechanger)”, is definitely something you could try if your campaign will feature plenty of them!
Have to admit, not having multiattack actually makes this class shine in my eyes, it's unique. Maybe not balanced all the way, but I really like the idea. Plus I love giving buffs to my players along the way. So I'll tweak it a bit. Been running Grim hollow for 3 years now, and enjoying every second. Hope to hear about the subclasses soon.
Although i love the concept, i feel it is missing a lot of features, and the features it does have are lacking. I can say with 100% certainty that the lair sense feature is far too situational. The class offers little outside of combat, which is fair considering it is a martial class focused on damage, but that just makes it far too one dimensional. Rangers and bloodhunters at least offer a bit more than just combat abilities, and thats not even considering additional features after you choose a subclass. Maybe im missing the point of the class, or the idea behind it but if this is going to be a full class, i think it could beneift from more rp features in the monster hunter flavor. Just something that adds flavor that can be utilized outside of combat. The grimoire is the core of a monster hunter, thats where they keep all of their knowledge and research. Maybe expand on the grimoire's features as you level up. Overall, i love the idea behind this class. A monster hunter is one if my favorite concepts for a character. I would love to see this class expanded a little more beyond what it currently is.
Leave it to the Aussie to basically make Steve Irwin a class. :) The Grim-waaah is he-yaaaa! Looking forward to seeing the final version when it comes out.
Studied Response heavily incentivizes using ranged weapons. I don’t know if that’s intentional, given the vampire hunter (or Diablo 3 demon hunter) iconically using a crossbow, but it’s going to make most other fighting style choices a mistake. Studied Response also heavily rewards a Rogue multiclass - rather, it rewards Rogues for taking two levels of Monster Hunter. You’ve created the equivalent of a Hexblade dip for rogues in that this would be virtually mandatory if it was official. First level feature is basically just a ribbon? Is it just that and a fighting style? There really should be some combat power there. Doesn’t need to be huge. Maybe add proficiency bonus to damage against studied types, though that may scale out of control. I like Knowledgable Defense, that’s a cool idea. So if I was trying to break a game with this, and I didn’t multiclass with rogue, I would be using crossbow expert and sharpshooter, I’d be adding my intelligence to the attack roll which, combined with archery fighting style, should negate the sharpshooter hit penalty. Eventually with Grave Strike in t4 I’ll be able to crit on 18-20 rolls, making at least two attacks per turn (xbow expert, hand xbow) and potentially (studied response) dealing 10+dex+int+2d6+magic bonuses, forcing a save or die against a DC of that total if the creature type is in my Grimoire. And that’s without multiclassing for a sneak attack. There are cool ideas here, but the second a character one-shots a big enemy with that feature my DM is going to ban the class.
I'd be inclined to distill this down to a ranger sub-class. I think the game has plenty of classes already. That's not to so you didn't do a good job designing the class, or that it wouldn't be fun to play. I'm just skeptical of the need for more 20-level classes.
@@TheOtakuKat 2 attacks at level 2, 3 levels earlier then any other class? With a bow and a 60ft range you can likely use your reaction EVERY turn, plus you hit the enemy BEFORE they strike possibly killing them before they can hit someone? It will even stack with extra attack if you multi-class? You get your fighting style 1 level earlier then the ranger which this class seem modeled after. Adding you int modifier to both attack & damage roll. With archery fighting style you could have a +7 or +8 to attack by level 5. Advantage on all lair saving throw and all saving throw can work off int. A 3 level dip into Battle smith Artificer would be Insane. Int build for all attacks and damage, doubled with the Expert Strike ability all saving throws off of int., with advantage in lairs, I mean come on, that isn't power creep over WoTC classes? Slayer's aid and lightning response can now make you and 2-3 allies get free reaction attacks EVERY round! Then getting crits on 18-20 on top of that. If that isn't power creep over original 5E classes NOTHING is.
@@bobmcbobbob2391 You didn't really answer my question because multi-classing ready has a powerful combinations so it's a moot point. What I want to know is what does the Monster Hunter powercreep by itself?
@@TheOtakuKat Everything that wasn't multi class related. 2 attacks at level 2 is huge for that level, sharing that reaction attack with 2 to 3 teammates is incredibly overpower for a class ability. Lair actions with advantage and all saves off the same modifier. Extra bonus to attack and damage rolls. How many classes can get a +7 to hit at level 5? And not all multi class combos can get this crazy. Compare this class to ANY ranger, even the Gloom Stalker, which is widely considered the most powerful and power creeped ranger class pales in comparison to this. Keep in mind none of this even includes any of the subclass abilities that add even more on top of this. Extra 1d6 it the reaction attack (then 2d6) causing disadvantage on attack rolls, immunity to frightened, Causing frightened every turn, if you miss with your reaction you get the reaction refreshed. None of Wotc classes are this power creeped except the Twilight Cleric which is broken as fuck.
@bobmcbobbob2391 Respectfully, once you do all that multiclassing, the wizard can cast Fireball at level 5. With a chance of up to 48 damage and an average of 24 on a fail and 12 on a success. To every creature in a 40 foot area. Heaven forbid a martial class not be completely outclassed bu every caster at level 5 lol.
It needs multiattack on its finished version. Edit: Ignore what i said above. "Slayer's Aid" woud be better as a lv5 ability, like a psuedo multi attack. Lair sense i think lv12 or lv13 is more apropriate
Sounds cool, but I think it's repeating the same mistakes from the original ranger. Having mechanics that key off specific monster types means DMs must bend their campaign prep to include such monsters or risk the Monster Hunter player not getting to use their class abilities as often. If you're playing through a prewritten adventure that doesn't include any Aberrations, for example, your Monster Hunter might feel left out if they chose that monster type. You can't solve this by having the DM throw more of those monsters into the campaign because it puts excess work on their shoulders. I don't need to provide sneak attack-able monsters for the rogue, because they can sneak attack anything
Addressing this issue was part of the inspiration for this class. We want the balance to work that players feel rewarded when facing Monsters they’re experts in, but not punished when fighting other monster types. This is why many core features of the class don’t require a Monster Hunter to have studied their foe, such as Studied Response, Expert Strike, and Lair Sense. How’d we go with this knife’s edge balance so far? Finding out is why we’re asking for play testers! 🙂
YES, THIS IS GOING TO FURTHER MY HOMEBREW OF A COMBINATION OF CASTLEVANIA THE ANIMATED SERIES MIX THEM WITH SUPERNATURAL AND A SPRINKLING OF WITCHER WORLD I'M CREATING.🎉❤
While interesting, I don't think I'm a fan of this class. At level 2 you get your level 5 damage boost essentially, you even bring this up. The issue is sometimes this feature just won't trigger for multiple combats as you fight against spellcasters, which use spell attacks instead. And spellcasters become more common at higher levels. In essence you gave the class it's power boost too early while making it worse in the long run. And then there is the 5th level feature which I dislike simply because it breaks 5e's guided balance system (forget the actual name). Essentially presuming you have decent Int you will be hitting more than you otherwise should be able to. It also runs across the same issue Rangers have where depending on what creature types you take, you can just have that feature feel dead As for how to fix these issues? Studied Strike can be moved to 5th level quite easily, with the change that it triggers to the monster attacking or casting a spell. While it doesn't fully fix the issue since there are actions outside of those, it does greatly help. Also having features that increase what Studied Strike can trigger on and perhaps even ways to stop them might be of great value. The current 5th level feature I'm not sure what to do with, since simply moving it to 2nd would just be busted as all hell. And the "Ranger issue" I'm also not sure how to fix since it seems integral to the class, but I feel like this is less of an issue as long as the player talks with the DM about what sort of game they are running.
I originally bounced off this video, but then when you talked about Studied Response in the Lorecast I had to come back. And boy am I glad I did. This class sounds dope as hell and is immediately being added to my ongoing campaign
I think this is needed to be added. We have the flexible marshals that are the fighter barbarian and rouges that they can pick any RP state and the state set matches that are the ranger and paladin that uses wisdom and charisma so an int one is needed. I don’t count blood hunter as most of the time people use it with wisdom
At first, I was like "Ok so he's gonna explain a more convoluted Ranger or something that could be a Ranger subclass" but in the end, I like the class quite much. It feels distinct enough to call it a class and have some very unique traits.
Wasn’t that a fighter subclass?
@@Aloysius10 As far as I know the Monster Hunter is a full class, he doesn't say anything about it being a subclass
Is close to the Investigator of Pathfinder
I feel like the Grimoire is a good idea, but also limiting. What if you choose certain monsters, and they don’t come up, or as time goes on you face them less and less, your character becomes less effective. Maybe allow the player to swap creature types every long rest, like a wizards spell book, but you are still effective against 2-3. This encourages the player to still examine, and scout the enemy without reducing their power. Or maybe every 2 levels you can add another creature.
Either way, I love how this class looks. A different take on the rogue, but has its very own flavor. It’s doing something that the Ranger didn’t. Keep up the good work!
one change that i think could be made to ensure that the class doesnt become antiquated based simply on campaign direction is a slight tweak to the grimoire. i would keep the grimoire improvements as they are, but also add the opportunity to add new creature types by defeating them in combat aswell. perhaps after defeating 3 or 4 different enemies of a creature type, you can then add that creature to your grimoire. such as 4 different types of undead (example: zombies, ghouls, skeletons, dhampir). this would add a great versatility to the class that you can actually earn by playing, and would ensure that you dont get soft locked out of class features if the campaign lacks your chosen enemies.
@chiefbigsad7995 they mentioned why they didn't go this route in the video. If they did it this way, the identity of the class would be removed. They want you to study your enemies, find weaknesses, prepare, and then go for the kill. If you just murder hobo everything, you're now just a fighter or barbarian.
As a fighter player with a thirst for somthing unique and interesting, this makes me giddy, especially being able to call in m ally’s for attacks, I have always been a fan of some of the commander oriented fighter classes new and old that let me get my friends involved in my turn to keep everyone involved and engaged.
This looks awesome! I've got an NPC temporary companion/advisor from previous campaigns who we're about to play with as a younger character and this is perfect for him. Thanks!
one change that i think could be made to ensure that the class doesnt become antiquated based simply on campaign direction is a slight tweak to the grimoire. i would keep the grimoire improvements as they are, but also add the opportunity to add new creature types by defeating them in combat aswell. perhaps after defeating 3 or 4 different enemies of a creature type, you can then add that creature to your grimoire. such as 4 different types of undead (example: zombies, ghouls, skeletons, dhampir). this would add a great versatility to the class that you can actually earn by playing, and would ensure that you dont get soft locked out of class features if the campaign lacks your chosen enemies.
YEEEEEEAH! Now I can finally play my Plasmoid Blob as a Devourer! 🔥
I can't believe some of the responses here- I think this is a solid class that covers a role that's much broader than what one might expect. I remember in your previous videos where you covered how the Monster Hunter works, and how the Monster Slayer Ranger leans more into the magical side as opposed to the true grittiness that famous monster hunters thrive in. (If you really want magic, just multiclass friends) That might've been why so many others didn't gel so well with it either- you're more like a mage slayer, not a MONSTER slayer.
I do miss Grave Strike just being part of the MH's arsenal, but Studied Response is just as good- probably better in terms of balance. Makes it so it's not just "Rogue, but tanky."
We need more martial-focused classes in general, and I think this is well on its way to being a great one to play.
Oh hoh man this would be great to play Van Helsing as portrayed by Hugh Jackman
5:46 The way Expert Attack is worded would imply that Intelligence is added in addition to whichever base attribute you're attacking with. Is that the case?
Yes, this is correct.
@@GhostfireGaming My advice would be to state that explicitly in the text of the ability.
The idea of an intelligence based martial class is a stroke of genius. Most of the time in D&D (and other RPGs) Martial classes are defined either by strength or agility - a great weapon or rapier approach to combat. In either case, intelligence is a popular dump stat with players of Martial classes, so you often end up with either a strong meathead or a graceful idiot, but that doesn't fit with the imagery surrounding a monster hunter who will often find themselves fighting alone, or as part of a small group, against creatures that severely outclass them in terms of raw physical potency. If such a hunter is going to consistently survive and triumph against such odds then they will have to fight with their wits at least as much as their muscles and reflexes.
The notion of an expert monster hunter - who knows the behaviours, habitats, strengths and weaknesses of the creatures they specialise in hunting - offers a truly appealing class fantasy. The idea of the precision of a master hunter who plans out how to tackle their chosen mark in meticulous detail, who has made a study of the creatures they hunt and laid the ground work for victory ahead of time by arming themselves with knowledge as much as weapons, offers all kinds of options for story telling and role playing. The obvious (though still ridiculously awesome) Geralt of Rivia type characters being one route you could take with a character, but you can just as readily have the grizzled veteran hunter who has seen it all and knows that, since they are no longer as young as they once were, they must find other ways of levelling the playing field. The obsessive, 'Captain Ahab' type hunter who is absolutely driven by their desire for vengeance or need to wipe a particular type of hated creature from the face of the Realm, but who is not so lost in their lust for revenge that they lack the ability to hone their knowledge and skill to better their odds of achieving the goals they seek (they might even have their own 'White Whale' in a particularly dangerous beast they have been hunting for years but have yet to bring down). The hard bitten professional monster hunter for whom monsters are both a scourge that needs to be eliminated but also each represent a bounty that is part of their way of life, or maybe they primarily see their prey as simply a source of alchemical indigents that can be sold for a handsome profit to alchemists and mages - straight forward supply and demand with no aspirations to any higher calling. The Professor Van Helsing type man of learning who has been forced to turn his hand to monster hunting by circumstance and now leverages the knowledge he has gained from a life spent in pursuit of academia the better to rid the world of the vile creatures that haunt its shadowed places. There really is no end to the possibilities
I also like the idea of possibly multiclassing a Monster Hunter who specialises in using gadgets to bring down their prey with an Artificer (another intelligence based class that seems likely to pair well with the Monster Hunter) to really bring the power of innovation and new technologies to the hunt.
I like this class. The expert strike fearure is cool but i still think multiattack is necessary for a marital. I liked the original version with grave strike where you could forgo multiattack for a single attack that does more damage. I get lots of things combo with expert strike but the loss of multiattack gets rid of lots of martial utility especially in limiting you to only being able to attack one creature a round. The reaction strike is decent but still uses the reaction. I personally think the option to use multiattack or expert strike was a good feature and allows for deciosions eavh round that make you feel good for picking the right option for the circumstances of the round
Kind of interesting how the scene seemingly used to show off someone just swinging their weapon around. Was a scene from Demon Slayer where the exact opposite was going on. Pretty sure that when they had study the demon’s attacks and could dodge and react to them every time at that point
If they're not going to get a second attack, gaining an additional reaction a little later makes sense. If they're proficient in the monster type that they're fighting then I think giving them an additional reaction would be really cool. They already know how to react to monsters but these specific monsters they know in and out. This would also allow them to use some of their other reactions if needed.
Overall it seems like a really fun class. Good job!
Love all of this, but I think my favorite part was when he correctly said "Heracles"
Of course! Named in a vain attempt to pacify the wrathful Queen of the gods.
This sounds like Sam and Dean as a D&D class. Love that.
Should studied response read when an enemy takes the attack action instead of a weapon attack?
Would that exclude natural weapons like claws or unarmed attack like a giant stomping.
Claws, fists, and gnashing teeth are all considered weapon attacks. Some monsters do have "Spell Attacks" which don't trigger Studied Response, unless you are a hunter from the Occultist Guild. Monster stat blocks specify in the attack description whether it is a "weapon" or "spell" attack.
Any news on Aetherial Expense setting. I pre-ordered the pdf in December and I'm wondering when it will be avaible for download . I have the same question for Sunken Islands. I haven't bought that yet but I'm interested.
Thank you
Grim Hollow is such a cool vibe! Can't wait to see more:)
LFG! Been waiting for this. So exicted to give it a play test.
Will this class be added to DND beyond?
Dammit best me to it.
That would be dope!
Likely no. But who knows? We shall wait and see where the winds of fate takes Ghostfire Gaming.
I don't think so. That would imply that their Monster Hunter sucks
If you has the $$$.
I'd certainly want to play a Devourer, but I wonder if it would be possible to spec towards eating only specific monsters that would give specific bonuses; for example, if I was a Human Devourer that just consumed insects or insect monsters (such as Ankhegs, Thri-keen, Umberhulks, etc.), would I gain a hard carapace? Could my eyes morph into compound eyes to increase perception? Would two antennae sprout out of my head to give me a buff to darkvision?
Sounds quite exact I know, but damn would it make for some awesome combinations =)
Can 2nd level feature be used to make sneak attack on reaction if you play a rouge?? That would be extremely neat
Currently, yes! That may change in future if the 2024 core rogue changes to Sneak Attack only working once per round, as was in an Unearthed Arcana. But for now, it’s a pretty powerful combo.
Making studied response only a reaction is great, sells it really well. But I miss the bonus action feature of learning the enemy's stats. Studying the monster during combat I think really sells the fantasy of it, and an action to investigate seems too costly At the same time I like the bold choice of not including multiattack, and I think leaning into it would be very cool and differentiate it from other martials if they were encouraged to use their action to study the monster or employ gadgets which would amp up the next studied response instead of using the attack action. Just a thought.
This is solid. Sounds like a class with a great chance at both combat and RP, and could make those travel days a lot more interesting 🤔
I love the idea of not needing to fight to find tour place in a party but having an easy way to be integral to the game.
God the ultimate multiclass for monster slaying the Monster Hunter Blood Hunter multiclass would be the bane of any monster.
Question about the Lair Sense feature. Does it need to rewritten (eventually) to account for the fact that WotC are writing Legendary Actions out of the game? Mordenkeinen's has been replacing them with additional Reactions.
Good question! For those who haven't made it to the Discord (yet!), as Shawn said we'll be waiting to see how monsters look when the new Monster Manual arrives before finalizing the class features.
It kinda just sounds like Blood Hunter without the blood magic and some Monster Slayer elements. I'll wait for the final version, but as it is, I'm not really seeing anything groundbreaking in terms of mechanics. Thematically, it sounds like a great class for roleplay though, so I'll give it that!
It seems more like a job with extra steps, or a new career path mechanic, not enough of a wide net, mechanically and fundamentally, to deem it nessicary to make it a class like a Fighter and all its subclasses
Yes! Been waiting for an update since that first playtest.
This is thematically the hunter ranger, including studied response as a reactive hunter’s mark and the monster grimoire favored enemy list, but if the mechanics already there don’t do the job you want, make new mechanics, right? I wonder if some ways you’ve done it might be more fun than how the ranger did it.
The class is also Intel based so in my opinion it's distinct enough. And I'm not sure what you're saying about Hunter's Mark, it doesn't work at all like Studied Response
Is there a Pathfinder 2nd Edition equivalent that anyone can think of? Because i've been looking for this for a LONG while now.
For the second level ability. If it’s weapon attacks then it will mostly trigger from other humanoids and not monsters
“Weapon attacks” include claws, jaws, and scything blades. It’s a 5e rules term that distinguishes a physical attack from “spell attacks” typically made while casting a spell.
Been hearing a lot about these ruffians. May have to do some studying later...
Sounds a little similar to the Investigator class from Pathfinder, although the flavoring is very different and the features differentiate it enough that they could both reasonably exist in the same world.
I'm working on a feywild setting where all the PCs are children lost in the feywild and meet and fight against fables and the monster hunter could be such a good class for a kid that was obsessed with fairytales and is now a fountain on knowledge for the rest of the party since they are in the realm where those fairytales are, in fact, real!
Does anyone know if this will come to dnd beyond?
I have a subclass that I've been homebrewing and I think this will be perfect for it cause it'll be like a van helsing werewolf class. Plus I've been trying to find a intelligence based martial class for this sub class.
really would love to use this sucks i can't
I was listening to this and thinking about rpg horror stories of metagaming players, but those specific kinds who like can't help themselves from wanting to immediately use a monster's weakness. Even tho their character might have no feasible reason to just know that info, or like the best way to take down the boss monster easy. I feel like this would be a good class for these players, giving them an in universe reason to know the irl info they might know. I know I've dealt with players like this before as a dm, even been guilty of it myself playing.
Excited for a new class, how long is the window to sign in for playtests?
About two months. Playtesting closes end of June.
@@GhostfireGaming i plan to join once I get the next paycheck
Study response sounds like it would be good if you had wait a turn to actually study the creature then I think it would be great at second level
Now if you could build it for Pathfinder 2E that would be awesome. Or is it somewhere already?
Ah so this is what ranger supposet to be from the start.
Hey I am planning on making a Human Monster Hunter the big bad for my campaign. In a nutshell he was betrayed by a city that hard him to protect them. Is there stat blocks to make him a villain? If not I have a general idea but would love and appreciate some guidance.
Isn't this supposed to be a Ranger sub-class?
So how long until the final version is released?
As with many new rules being playtested at the moment, we're still in early days. The Monster Hunter will be part of our next Grim Hollow Kickstarter, which is launching in October this year.
@@GhostfireGaming ah ok
I literally made a monster hunter for our current GH game, my dm just sent me this, I'm SO excited to see this and (hopefully) get to try it out
Is this going to be in official dnd 5e? I wanna make this on dnd beyond
The Kickstarter for this project is live right now and includes D&D Beyond support as a pledge reward. So yes!
www.kickstarter.com/projects/ghostfiregaming/grim-hollow
Will this supplement be added to dnd beyond at some point. I would like to purchase it, but I move around alot, so I don't want to buy a bunch of physical books.
Is there any news if it will be D&D Beyond compatible??
Aren't....ALL D and D characters by definition Monster Hunters?
Huh. You had me at the 3 first examples. New favorite.
WHERE'S MY DRAGONATOR (there should be enough people that are fans of both D&D and Monster Hunter that get this joke)
Palico needs to be added to the find familiar options immediately.
Me when I take a Monster Hunter Dip on my Rogue and sneak attack anything that looks art me funny
This is pretty awesome.
Have you considered that Studied Response makes this an awesome 2-3 level dip for rogues?
Any class that attacks with a weapon.
Given that you attack before the creature does, I think I would have it cost your bonus action to set up to use, removing that restriction at a higher level. And that you cannot use it when surprised.
Totally aware a 2014 rogue would be quite powerful with Studied Response, using two Sneak Attacks per round. If the final 2024 rogue only gets Sneak Attack once per round (instead of per turn) that may no longer be an issue. Or we could look at moving Studied Response to 5th level.
Studied Response currently cannot be used if the Monster Hunter is surprised, because it requires a reaction.
@@GhostfireGaming You get your reaction after your turn during the 1st round. Requirement of using the bonus action to set that up would prevent that. Otherwise, if your initiative is higher than the creature(s) that surprised you, you could Studied Response them.
@@GhostfireGaming As would saying you cannot use it if you were surprised.
When I finally get my hands on my copy of the Citadel of the Unseen Sun adventure, I plan on having my party meet a Tiefling Monster Hunter that will help them on their quest to escape from the Ostoyan Necropolis. He has the Carver Guild Subclass and uses a broadsword in battle, you might have a good idea on who he's based off of.
New transformations??? Oh I hope we get Lamias or arachne. What does a transformation into those look like? Ether way I am excited for future Grim hollow.
So every fight encounter you can discombobulate the enemy like Sherlock Holmes? Sign me up I'm in.
It sounds like a good subclass for the Ranger, but cool.
Can a Monster Hunter use guns or learn martial arts?
They are a martial class that tend towards ranged or melee weapons (as opposed to spells). If you're campaign features firearms such as black powder weapons, then a Monster Hunter would be proficient with those weapons.
@@GhostfireGaming So if I want my Monster Hunter to be something similar to John Wick, who uses guns and martial arts, I can do so?
I paid to join the play test how do I access the monster hunter?
There's a link in the email you would have received after signing up. It could have gone to your spam folder, by accident?
Hey Ben, where are Goblinoids as a opinion for our Monster Grimoire?
Humanoids as a monster type make it difficult specialise in hunting monsters that fall in that category without accidentally catching all humanoid-type creatures or the category becoming too niche. So there’s a couple of these edge cases of monsters like goblinoids and lycanthropes.
That said, including “humanoid (goblinoid)” as a type of monster to expertise in, similar to “humanoid (shapechanger)”, is definitely something you could try if your campaign will feature plenty of them!
Hey did Valika clans ever come out? I remember them posting about it and then not much after
The PDF’s are currently up for purchase on our online store! Physical books will begin Kickstarter fulfilment in May.
Have to admit, not having multiattack actually makes this class shine in my eyes, it's unique. Maybe not balanced all the way, but I really like the idea. Plus I love giving buffs to my players along the way. So I'll tweak it a bit. Been running Grim hollow for 3 years now, and enjoying every second. Hope to hear about the subclasses soon.
This with a Gunslinger!!! Ohhhh
So I can theoretically 1shot a dragon at lvl 20 if he doesn't use the most applicable moment for a legendary resistance
Soooo.. is this an official release, or a third party release based on the official stuff?
Wow, at level 5th Monster hunters can add their STR or DEX modifier, AND their intelligenge modifier? 😲
Looking forwards to Valikan Clans. Do we have an ETA on the book?
The PDF’s are currently up for purchase on our online store! Physical books will begin Kickstarter fulfilment in May. 🙂
Although i love the concept, i feel it is missing a lot of features, and the features it does have are lacking. I can say with 100% certainty that the lair sense feature is far too situational. The class offers little outside of combat, which is fair considering it is a martial class focused on damage, but that just makes it far too one dimensional. Rangers and bloodhunters at least offer a bit more than just combat abilities, and thats not even considering additional features after you choose a subclass. Maybe im missing the point of the class, or the idea behind it but if this is going to be a full class, i think it could beneift from more rp features in the monster hunter flavor. Just something that adds flavor that can be utilized outside of combat. The grimoire is the core of a monster hunter, thats where they keep all of their knowledge and research. Maybe expand on the grimoire's features as you level up.
Overall, i love the idea behind this class. A monster hunter is one if my favorite concepts for a character. I would love to see this class expanded a little more beyond what it currently is.
Leave it to the Aussie to basically make Steve Irwin a class. :) The Grim-waaah is he-yaaaa! Looking forward to seeing the final version when it comes out.
Studied Response heavily incentivizes using ranged weapons. I don’t know if that’s intentional, given the vampire hunter (or Diablo 3 demon hunter) iconically using a crossbow, but it’s going to make most other fighting style choices a mistake.
Studied Response also heavily rewards a Rogue multiclass - rather, it rewards Rogues for taking two levels of Monster Hunter. You’ve created the equivalent of a Hexblade dip for rogues in that this would be virtually mandatory if it was official.
First level feature is basically just a ribbon? Is it just that and a fighting style? There really should be some combat power there. Doesn’t need to be huge. Maybe add proficiency bonus to damage against studied types, though that may scale out of control.
I like Knowledgable Defense, that’s a cool idea.
So if I was trying to break a game with this, and I didn’t multiclass with rogue, I would be using crossbow expert and sharpshooter, I’d be adding my intelligence to the attack roll which, combined with archery fighting style, should negate the sharpshooter hit penalty. Eventually with Grave Strike in t4 I’ll be able to crit on 18-20 rolls, making at least two attacks per turn (xbow expert, hand xbow) and potentially (studied response) dealing 10+dex+int+2d6+magic bonuses, forcing a save or die against a DC of that total if the creature type is in my Grimoire. And that’s without multiclassing for a sneak attack.
There are cool ideas here, but the second a character one-shots a big enemy with that feature my DM is going to ban the class.
Yeah, that's a problem. Studied Response will need to be the Monster Hunter's 5th level feature.
Damn, Ranger really can't have shit in this house
I'd be inclined to distill this down to a ranger sub-class. I think the game has plenty of classes already. That's not to so you didn't do a good job designing the class, or that it wouldn't be fun to play. I'm just skeptical of the need for more 20-level classes.
soooo the Investigator from pathfinder
Yesssirrrr I've been waiting for this for years
Blood hunters cried in the corner: we could do that too we promise
If you look up "Power creep" in the dictionary there's a picture of this class, lol.
And what does it Power Creep?
@@TheOtakuKat 2 attacks at level 2, 3 levels earlier then any other class? With a bow and a 60ft range you can likely use your reaction EVERY turn, plus you hit the enemy BEFORE they strike possibly killing them before they can hit someone? It will even stack with extra attack if you multi-class?
You get your fighting style 1 level earlier then the ranger which this class seem modeled after. Adding you int modifier to both attack & damage roll. With archery fighting style you could have a +7 or +8 to attack by level 5. Advantage on all lair saving throw and all saving throw can work off int.
A 3 level dip into Battle smith Artificer would be Insane. Int build for all attacks and damage, doubled with the Expert Strike ability all saving throws off of int., with advantage in lairs, I mean come on, that isn't power creep over WoTC classes? Slayer's aid and lightning response can now make you and 2-3 allies get free reaction attacks EVERY round! Then getting crits on 18-20 on top of that.
If that isn't power creep over original 5E classes NOTHING is.
@@bobmcbobbob2391 You didn't really answer my question because multi-classing ready has a powerful combinations so it's a moot point. What I want to know is what does the Monster Hunter powercreep by itself?
@@TheOtakuKat Everything that wasn't multi class related. 2 attacks at level 2 is huge for that level, sharing that reaction attack with 2 to 3 teammates is incredibly overpower for a class ability.
Lair actions with advantage and all saves off the same modifier. Extra bonus to attack and damage rolls. How many classes can get a +7 to hit at level 5? And not all multi class combos can get this crazy.
Compare this class to ANY ranger, even the Gloom Stalker, which is widely considered the most powerful and power creeped ranger class pales in comparison to this. Keep in mind none of this even includes any of the subclass abilities that add even more on top of this.
Extra 1d6 it the reaction attack (then 2d6) causing disadvantage on attack rolls, immunity to frightened, Causing frightened every turn, if you miss with your reaction you get the reaction refreshed.
None of Wotc classes are this power creeped except the Twilight Cleric which is broken as fuck.
@bobmcbobbob2391 Respectfully, once you do all that multiclassing, the wizard can cast Fireball at level 5. With a chance of up to 48 damage and an average of 24 on a fail and 12 on a success. To every creature in a 40 foot area. Heaven forbid a martial class not be completely outclassed bu every caster at level 5 lol.
i need this in bg3
Awesome! bring it to roll20!!!!!
Oh I like this. 5 levels Blood hunter and the rest Monster hunter.
It needs multiattack on its finished version.
Edit: Ignore what i said above. "Slayer's Aid" woud be better as a lv5 ability, like a psuedo multi attack. Lair sense i think lv12 or lv13 is more apropriate
So what's their signature weapon?
A great sword? A longsword? The allmighty SnS? A glaive with an insect familiar attached to it?
Sounds cool, but I think it's repeating the same mistakes from the original ranger. Having mechanics that key off specific monster types means DMs must bend their campaign prep to include such monsters or risk the Monster Hunter player not getting to use their class abilities as often. If you're playing through a prewritten adventure that doesn't include any Aberrations, for example, your Monster Hunter might feel left out if they chose that monster type. You can't solve this by having the DM throw more of those monsters into the campaign because it puts excess work on their shoulders. I don't need to provide sneak attack-able monsters for the rogue, because they can sneak attack anything
Addressing this issue was part of the inspiration for this class. We want the balance to work that players feel rewarded when facing Monsters they’re experts in, but not punished when fighting other monster types.
This is why many core features of the class don’t require a Monster Hunter to have studied their foe, such as Studied Response, Expert Strike, and Lair Sense.
How’d we go with this knife’s edge balance so far? Finding out is why we’re asking for play testers! 🙂
But can i use the parts of the monster for gear and/or food?
YES, THIS IS GOING TO FURTHER MY HOMEBREW OF A COMBINATION OF CASTLEVANIA THE ANIMATED SERIES MIX THEM WITH SUPERNATURAL AND A SPRINKLING OF WITCHER WORLD I'M CREATING.🎉❤
When will grim hollow be in fantasy grounds unity 😢
Have been waiting a long time for it to be in Fantasy Grounds
While interesting, I don't think I'm a fan of this class.
At level 2 you get your level 5 damage boost essentially, you even bring this up. The issue is sometimes this feature just won't trigger for multiple combats as you fight against spellcasters, which use spell attacks instead. And spellcasters become more common at higher levels. In essence you gave the class it's power boost too early while making it worse in the long run.
And then there is the 5th level feature which I dislike simply because it breaks 5e's guided balance system (forget the actual name). Essentially presuming you have decent Int you will be hitting more than you otherwise should be able to.
It also runs across the same issue Rangers have where depending on what creature types you take, you can just have that feature feel dead
As for how to fix these issues?
Studied Strike can be moved to 5th level quite easily, with the change that it triggers to the monster attacking or casting a spell. While it doesn't fully fix the issue since there are actions outside of those, it does greatly help. Also having features that increase what Studied Strike can trigger on and perhaps even ways to stop them might be of great value.
The current 5th level feature I'm not sure what to do with, since simply moving it to 2nd would just be busted as all hell.
And the "Ranger issue" I'm also not sure how to fix since it seems integral to the class, but I feel like this is less of an issue as long as the player talks with the DM about what sort of game they are running.
Sounds like a Ranger subclass tbh
I originally bounced off this video, but then when you talked about Studied Response in the Lorecast I had to come back. And boy am I glad I did. This class sounds dope as hell and is immediately being added to my ongoing campaign
But monster hunter is already a subclass for ranger...well, monster slayer. But still... this just looks like ranger with extra steps.
I think this is needed to be added. We have the flexible marshals that are the fighter barbarian and rouges that they can pick any RP state and the state set matches that are the ranger and paladin that uses wisdom and charisma so an int one is needed. I don’t count blood hunter as most of the time people use it with wisdom
I'm confused will this be in the actual DnD beyond website? Or is this something different.
Playing as a Dhampir, you can RP Vampire Hunter D 🤌
No exaggeration, my life changed when I watched Vampire Hunter D: Bloodlust, as a teenager.
@@GhostfireGaming Same! Such an underrated masterpiece
Reminds me alot of the Inquisitor or Slayer classes from Pathfinder
Now I can roleplay as my MHW character... If I had a D&D group. :, (
Doesn’t Ranger HAVE a Monster Hunter Subclass already????
Theres a monster slayer ranger, mate and theres blood hunter, this better be good.
… isn’t this a subclass for ranger or bloodhunter already
Just cross class blood hunter artificer and still better off with a lot better abilities
This combined with blood hunter oof
RAW bloodhunter lol