Balls of your feet is motocross advice. Enduro is unknown terrain, MX is a set course, where your ankles are used in jumping as suspension. I think a lot of people take all advice from the internet, even mis-matched advice, and cause themselves problems.
@ well, if you don’t know, and you aspire to slay on a motocross track but you ride in a field, then listening to a super cross guy you want to become can get you ahead of yourself. Like learning jump rope tricks with an expert’s wire rope; you will slash your head at some point. But it’s hard to learn why. i think critical thinking comes in once you get past the joy of squirting the throttle around all day and first try to go faster by going slower, and paying attention to the many positions and techniques you must know and execute, in rapid sequence, to ride efficiently. Almost every bit of advice is too general or too specific to simply apply directly and improve….you have to come to the point when you test limits, of sliding, of braking into corners, of throttle inputs, clutch work, etc., etc. until it becomes ingrained. brad Lacky (I’m a boomer! Who used to race 1970s motocross and still sees a track in every trail) said training in Europe for CZ involved taking the seat off the bike, filling it with gas, and riding until it was run dry. Of course, that was just motocross.. lol.
@@take5th yep! To get a bit poetic (lol) time on the bike is like the hanger of experience with which you can hang your coat of advice on. That is to say, if you don’t have the experience and time on the bike to back it up, the advice you learn online or in classes really doesn’t do much.
The techniques of this sport changes, and evolves constantly. When I was a kid in the early 90s guys always cornered while seated with the inside leg out, and foot up by the shroud. Now they try to stay standing in corners with feet on the pegs whenever possible.
I used the tecnique of sticking my leg out around corners until around 25 years ago, i was on a newish yz400f, stuck my leg out, fell and tore my ACL. I try to ride standing up, on the balls of my feet as much as i possibly can and find it to be less tiring to be standing up, so your knees and feet absorb the impact, not your back. I set my bars and controls to be most comfortable standing up and about the best new knick knack I bought was Steg Pegz, which give you something to hold onto. Just advise from an old rider that works for me
I can't imagine not riding on the balls of my feet. Of course there's some dancing forward and back on the pegs for the controls, but I find so much more control with the ability to articulate the ankles and alter peg pressure. I think of the pegs as similar to ailerons on an airplane, so pressing on one side while de weighting the other can allow the bike to flick from side to side. Of course there's much more to this, but I think it's similar to almost all other sports. They're all played from the balls of the feet, most of the time. Way more options and quickness that way.
You’re 100% right. If you’ve ever tried riding your bike standing up with no hands, you can literally steer it just by pressing down on either foot peg. It’s easy to do on the balls of your feet but much harder on the arches.
Good topic to cover man. I’ve always been a huge one to preach it’s about your own personal preference and what you’re riding. What makes you comfortable and even some of the fastest guys on the tracks I ride and race with switch their form up at times. Comes down to comfort, what your riding even where your riding. I ride different in sand than I do rocks lol but if you can make it happen on the balls of your feet, great. If you ride on the arch and are successful, great. People have to stop worrying so much about these riding academy guys and focus on themselves. Take tips, sure. But don’t change everything about yourself to be uncomfortable and in the long run that will make you sore and destroy yourself. IMO. Once your comfortable, Then incorporate technique to conquer any obstacles they’re struggling with. I suck ass at MX now a days. lol much prefer XC. Congrats on hauling ass with the channel man! It’s doing awesome!
Yep exactly! The coaching and tips are helpful for sure, but people often try to apply one tip to every single situation. They should just be focusing on riding more and learning which situations call for which techniques. And thanks man!
Amen to this Soup.. off road riding is dynamic business, nothing stays static so neither should the riding position. As a non-racing, experienced enduro rider I can't say I've thought much about my foot position, mostly because they just seem to go where I need them. One thing is for sure, in the terrain I ride I use the shit out of my rear brake, everything from jinking to stabilizing the bike. I doubt I'm on the balls of my feet much.
Thanks for the comment! And yeah like you said, they kind of just go where you need. Once you know how to use all the techniques and practice them, they just become second nature
Good points and an interesting topic, especially since I just watched Shane's video you're referring to. I haven't been 100% committed to either foot position, but it's helping me understand what I'm teaching and why the more I think about it. Thanks for sharing, and thank you for your humility as you teach and refer to Shane and his experience/knowledge. Most people don't want to give others credit or praise for anything, especially on YT :)
Thanks for the comment brother! I like what you’re doing with your channel:) I feel like a lot of times what happens when people are learning a new skill is that they’re frustrated with maybe a lack of progress or something. So they go to a coach or they look for advice online and they’re just looking for something quick and simple to solve their whole problem. So they take something like the balls of the feet advice and just try to use it all the time without thinking critically. So I guess I feel like students as well as teachers should be a little bit better at remembering that they need to think for themselves and really try to analyze WHY they’re using a certain technique in that situation over another.
@@notsoupmoto Thanks :) Yeah, I agree! But that's human nature - we're just sheep that want to be told what to do unless we stop, think about it, and discern what's right and wrong, or in this case, what's best for our specific needs/goals. Thanks for sharing. -Kelley
Thank You Very Much For Sharing and I'm glad to see You're Covering more Topics Relating to Controlling the Dirtbike, I'm still waiting for the Body Position Video.
WOW, I had no idea my comment would stir up so much controversy. I was just stating what works for me. Those that always ride on the balls of their feet, how do they cover the rear brake quickly, especially as sharp as most foot pegs are today? With today’s sharp advanced foot pegs, you must pretty much get all of the weight off your foot peg to slide your foot any at all. Thanks for the video.
Haha yeah it’s been quite a large debate. But I know exactly what you mean and if that works for you then keep doing it! I guess my issue is with people giving blanket advice that can’t possibly apply to all riders. In order to give advice you first have to understand who you’re talking to, their skill level, what type of riding they do, etc etc. Thanks for your comment it was a great prompt for this video!
"Those that always ride on the balls of their feet, how do they cover the rear brake quickly, especially as sharp as most foot pegs are today?" For me i have size 17 feet so the brake is always covered whether i like it or not lol. I have to stand further back than the balls of my feet to miss the controls. I just kinda do both, ride balls and i can still tap the brake while locked in.
@@rustymustard7798 yeah also to cover the rear brake quickly, you do just that… pick your foot up and move it forward quickly. It’s not really that hard of a movement to do u just gotta practice switching between positions. Comfort and speed will come as you ride more and practice that movement more. For me it’s just second nature now. Same with shifting
Excellent points! Makes sense since enduro and motocross are completely different sports, they would have completely different techniques. If I'm riding enduro, I'll take the enduro guys advice, if I'm riding moto, I'll take the moto guys advice. Moto tracks have key locations to be in specific positions for the most speed; braking, accelerating, whoops, inside corners, outside corners, and jumps. Enduro is more dynamic and unpredictable so it makes sense you have to have access to all controls at all times.
5:49 i agree about you saying some woods riders arnt so good on mx tracks and some mx riders arnt so good in the woods. Today i went to my local mx track and felt like crap and wasn't having fun, compared to the fun I would've had doing hill climbs, single trick, etc. Made me realize that im going sticking with woods. 😂
Standing is better than sitting whether you're on the balls or arches. The difference between the two positions of balls or arches is subtle and less of a jump in speed than standing. With a gas bike in single track it's difficult to stay on the balls of your feet because for me anyways, I use the rear brake a lot in the woods. On a moto track or fire roads it's easier to get on the balls and stay there. Electric bikes with a hand rear brake eliminate the need to move your feet out of position so riding on the balls full-time is easy.
As an exercise physiologist graduate, I've always strongly disagreed with "dropping your ankles" and standing on the balls of feet. You have MORE "suspension travel" by raising your heels if anything. It's quite simple biomechanically. But more importantly you have a WAY higher injury risk by dropping your heels.
I don’t recall saying to “drop your heels” so if you could time stamp that it would be great. My point was that when riding on the balls of your feet, you have much more mobility for all sorts of things like bike control and “suspension travel” in the ankles. When riding on the arches it’s a much more flat footed stance and you have way less mobility in the ankles to control the bike and such. Like I said, reply back with a time stamp because I could have misspoke.
Awesome video man. Love hearing your perspective on the topic. But even when you watch pro moto riders, or even enduro riders, those dudes don't always have 100% perfect form. Watch back replays of people racing and you'll see that they aren't on the balls of their feet, or standing properly. Balls of your feet are a good starting point. I race harescrambles, and my feet are all over the peg for the 2 hours I'm racing. I also ride moto for fun, and notice it's easier to hold position on a moto track vs in the woods. Everyone is different and you just have to take advice and try it. What works for you may not work for someone else! Great video man
Totally agree! Even the pros are humans and make mistakes with body position The point is, the more techniques you learn and practice, the more versatile your tool belt will be. So when a certain obstacle comes up, you just deal with it without even really having to think abt it
I'm surprised that nobody seems to bring up what seems to be an obvious point to me, in that each foot has a very different task (shifting vs braking), so foot positioning should be different. I race hare scrambles and ride single track trails in tight eastern woods. I set my brake pedal so I can cover it all the time sitting or standing because I am on and off the brake continuously, and it's just not feasible to be on the ball of the foot for any length of time because the brake is used so often. On the shifter side however, I tend to ride on the ball of my foot while standing for better maneuverability (and keeping the foot out of danger), as even on the 125s that I normally ride, I'm not shifting nearly as often as I'm actuating the brake pedal. I seldom ride MX, but I would imagine that on a known course with more space between well-defined braking points, the "balls of the feet" stance would be far more useful. At some point I hope to be riding an electric woods bike, and with a LH rear brake, I'm sure my style would change.
Here’s a thought. If you’re not a skilled enough rider to bring your feet from ball position to cover brakes and shift in time. You shouldn’t even be riding at that level. As someone who went straight into motocross tracks and did trail riding later. My mx riding significantly improved after I learned my foot position/ body position/ squeezing with knees. It’s required. Hit a 20ft jump and don’t do those things, tell me how well it goes for you. Then after that, it’s pretty much common sense when I’m having fun on the trails I don’t always have to be in motor cross position unless I’m squaring up for a jump. Are you in mx position when riding from your truck to the trail? Are you in attack position when doing 15 mph through a straight? Like let’s be for real bikes aren’t for everyone, especially those who can’t do critical thinking for themselves. Learn the basics and when you get your flow and can expand upon that knowledge, leave the internet alone for a bit.
I've been trying to developer better technic on my dirt bike mainly for safety and longevity reasons. I've been pushing myself to ride balls of feet and it was such a struggle to get used simply because my feet are small. I'm 5'5"with a 8.5 shoe size. So riding balls of feet and reaching for the brake or for the shifter is a huge effort and it's real difficult to operate the foot controls quickly when needed. I think I'll try to focus less on that. Cool video.
Yeah if you find it getting in the way of just riding, forget about it for now. But it’s definitely a good idea to practice in the future. As you practice and do it more and more it will become second nature
Start with "why"....why would you ride on the balls of your feet? For the same reason every sport talks about an "athletic stance" which involves a stance that requires you to be on the balls of the feet...why? your biomechanics, which you cannot change, allows you to create the most leverage, and therefore balance, over your center of gravity. You will never have a much balance as you can when you are on the balls of your feet. The variable....we have a brake pedal and to your point, especially when offroad, must be utilized frequently, so you will waste time sliding your foot back and forth. Obviously, if you had a rear brake lever that would be optimal because you wouldn't have to use a pedal, but this is only possible on e-bikes.
Great video! Thanks for breaking it down. I saw the same one you watched with Shane as well, and I've always subscribed to using balls of the feet 80% of the time, maybe more. I also don't use the rear brake as much as some folks, so it works for me to ride that way.
Yeah man like I’ve been riding Arenacross a lot lately since it’s winter here and I’m barely ever touching my back brake around the track. Really only to brake tap in the air and that’s it. So I prefer to ride on the balls of my feet pretty much the whole way around. Thanks for the comment!
Boots have a notch to hold your pegs in the arch, then the controls are available. For jumps if your on your balls then the ankles and knees can squeeze the frame, back to the arches to brake downshift and corner
I'm not sure that's the sole purpose of the heel on the boots but yeah, moving between the balls of your feet and shifting/braking is a pretty easy movement. I feel like some people just need more practice with it. that being said, there are times when covering the rear brake is advantageous
Okay.... for most rando guys covering the rear is fine. When I ride the gnarly I will be hitting step ups that are over 8 feet tall... the bike is pointing up... if my foot was over the brake I would be hitting the rear brake. Yeah I don't think most people are hitting 8 foot ledges but my trials training has taught me that you gotta be able to rotate around the pegs. SOOO like you are saying.... we need to change depending on what we ride.
Riddle me this ; how does one change gear continuously on a 125 whilst riding on " balls of feet " never mind the rear brake ... On my eMX , yup , on me other 3 ICEs , umm really ? What's yours and every other riders take on that ? Saw the Shane Watts vid before you did and I'm glad this subject has been raised .
The same way you’d do it on any other bike. Lift your foot off the peg and slide it forward to shift when you need to, then move it back on the peg when you’re done so it’s out of the way. Prevents misshifts and accidental brake dragging too. It’s really not a difficult movement once you practice it. It becomes second nature.
@@jeffwhite9392 It’s the same on any displacement bike. Lift your left foot off the peg, put it under the shift lever then lift the lever up. Yes, you’ll need to momentarily support all your weight on the right peg. Same for downshifting, except you push the lever down with your left foot. (Not being a smart a$$. )
For technical/hard enduro I usually only slide my feet back for hill climbs or if I find myself in open terrain where i know the braking points. Otherwise i cover the rear brake so I can react quickly and do wheelies on command, since I often dont know and cant see what is coming. Also if you ride a 4 stroke the engine braking lets you be lazy with using the brakes compared to a 2 stroke. I can definitely see the value for mx riding though.
I’d take Chris Birch’s advice over anyone else’s on youtube in his Say No to Slow dirt bike and adv series. Yes, Balls of the feet is the fundamental position which allows you to drop your heels and lock your knees into the tank for control. Now once it’s mastered, of course there are exceptions and situations where covering the brake is necessary for added stability.
Im a lazy sod that sits most of the time. Balls of your feet while sitting bends the knee too much. I know I need to stand more, but I get tired. If I was fit maybe I could be an on the toes rider. Im not going to get too worked up about it!
For MX/SX the default absolutely should be balls of feet, if you leant to be safe and fast. Enduro is its own thing and I know little about it, so I can’t opine on that.
Considering that you’re using the clutch a ton, I think it’s more practical, at least in motocross and woods riding to have the rear foot brake and not a hand brake
@@notsoupmoto Some don't use the clutch except at the start. I did it even in woods - just clicked it up and down no clutch on a 2-stroke. Now I have an all electric though so no clutch at all.
Its balls of your feet with a vertical lower leg specifically....the knee position not going more forward than the feet pegs while standing applies for all diciplines. The picture in the thumbnail shows bad body positioning (knees too far fwd). Didnt bother with the video since proper posture and foot position has long been established.
There’s more nuance to it than just saying “proper posture and foot position has long been established” tho. My whole video is about why dirt bike riding is a dynamic sport and there’s not just ONE proper body position. U completely missed the point by just looking at the title and thumbnail and not watching any of the video
@@notsoupmoto didn't miss anything bud, it's all been said for years now. Especially after taking courses from top Enduro guys (like Chris Birch). But what did you expect going for the click bait title and thumbnail....you got your engagement lol
I don’t move around from balls of feet to middle of feet to heel of foot. I’m locked in the middle on the pegs like you’re locked into ski bindings. I become part to the bike and lean my weight (body English) where I need to be. This way I’m Not wearing myself out early and I can last all day long on the trails. I flow Really well like those guys you see in hard enduro. Watch what they do. What works for me might Not work for you. Experiment and teach yourself how to Flow.
Only upshifting bro , don't panic !!! eMX makes this a non - issue & balls of feet is easy as you've probably found after riding I'm thinking ... Do like me Varg .
Idk about you guys, but unless I’m trying to lock it up to slide it around, my rear brake doesn’t really do shit, so I don’t really use it, I don’t know if this is an issue with my bike or if I have poor technique, just my experience.
Nope it’s true. Braking is usually done like 80% front brake 20% rear. Most of the time I’m not even touching the rear unless I’m also pulling in the front a little
ankles proprioceptors full work when on balls of your feet, otherwise you rely on knees ones, and internal ear . so you are loosing the first source of information and control about balance.. Working static balance shows it very simply.... And so many guys rely on back brake, because they don't practice front braking and end afraid of it.... that said, another point you could mention is that more guys ride siting in USA than Europe... Another topic ;) But some enduro bikes, by geometry and weight distribution are better riding on balls than flat feet and even sitting.... thanks for the video ! (just as looking at Billy Bolt videos, he doesn't care about being on balls or not 🤣🤣🤣)
Foot over Brake = FoB Motogymkhana FoB 95% Track 600/1000 cc FoB 5% MX FoB 40% Supermoto FoB 20% Street City FoB 75% Street Highway FoB 30% These are my estimates. They might not be yours.
I don't have any experience with the stuff other than MX... but i'd say with MX it's a tossup. most braking at least in my experience is done with majority front brake. exceptions are brake tapping in the air to adjust bike angle for a downside or trying to slide the back end in a tight turn. aside from that, rear brake use is very minimal so you don't really need to have your foot over the brake up until the very moment you decide to use it. even in an example like brake tapping in the air, i'm on the balls of my feet the whole way up until both tires leave the face of the jump. it's not until i'm fully in the air that i'll take my foot off the peg and move it forward for the brake tap. so idk... 40% foot over the brake may be a little high but it varies from person to person too thanks for the comment! especially input on other disciplines like those
@@notsoupmoto Agreed. In many cases (exception Motogym) I will move my right foot forward only when rear brake is needed. With Motogym I will come into a corner wide with my head turned 180 looking into the corner apex. I am looking near opposite my riding direction. I will then squat the bike hard using the rear brake, turn in and then exit out with the throttle. During the whole process my right foot is over the rear brake tucked against the clutch case to prevent catching the ground. I will keep it there most of time. With MX I would not really do this, I would come in less wide, look more forward, apply the brake before hand and then get back on the balls of my foot and get on the gas to make the exit. What is important about the above list is the fact that all of the riding surfaces are normalized. Except with MX. That is to say that MX (supermoto kinda as well) can be any kind of surface from sand to gravel to pebbles and rocks to what not. That makes it more difficult to pin down what is the way to go with respect to riding position and rear brake control. In MX it is much more situational since the riding surface is less normalized and the bends and speeds differ greatly. So just as you stated: with MX it is a tossup (what also plays a role is the amount of engine braking. In particular with 4-stroke). Otherwise stated, on track with a liter bike the road surface is more normalized with wide corners and much (much) higher speeds. My movements are more lateral than forward or back and I am most always on the balls of my feet (exception is changing gears). But I am barley using the rear brake (only very tight corners). For dense city street driving (I am in north western Europe where this time of year, rain, hail, snow and high winds) I need to be ready with both brakes frequently. In particular for sudden stops. So I am going to have my foot over the rear brake much more often. Hard yet docile breaking is important.
Hey Mr Soup totally aggree with you not with Shane . Must add Shane WAS ! fast in sand not rocks and not tech stuff . It's funny i,m a ex pro mtb er come hard enduro wanker bit trialsy B grade Mx rider and the mtb world has the same argument over were you put you foot on the pedals . The one thing I try to never do is put my foot out round corners since I like my knees oh i can here Wattsy from the other side of the word freaking out you got a sit down in the turns blah blah. How many knee rebuilds have you had Shane . I rather watch guys like Eli Tomac and Billy Bolt , Meggs Bratt ride at times on the balls with style and control .
haha yeah the foot out for stabilization was a big thing in the past... but now, as technique has evolved, the foot/leg should really never be sticking out away from the bike in a turn. Either on the pegs or if you are going to take your foot off, it should be way up by the front fender tucked in close to the bike. It has nothing to do with stabilization which is a common misconception. The purpose of the foot up by the fender is to weight the front of the bike to help give it more traction around the turn. AJ Catanzaro does some great videos explaining this concept! *at least in MX/SX. of course other disciplines require a foot to be dabbed for different reasons I'm sure Thanks for the comment!
Simply put riding on the balls of your feet is appropriate advice, when you need to use your REAR brake then you position your foot to use it period... otherwise do not leave you feet there, dragging your feet on the brakes is POOR riding technique regardless of what skill level they are and many times creates conditions where the rear brake fails or locks up. I've had several pros off road and motocross pros all say riding on the balls of your feet is the default position because it gives you the ability to shift to the brake position when needed and then back to the balls of your feet where you have the optimum level of control over the bike. All forms of riding are dynamic regardless of what type of terrain you're encountering and it comes down to common sense it really not that complicated... going down a steep hill you're foot position should be covering the rear brake because you're needing them... when you're not needing them put them back where they belong on the goddamn pegs.
Balls of the feet is motocross advice. Its also sport bike advice as well. You also wont see any trials rider not on the balls of their feet. Its maybe not perfect for every situation or discipline but its good basic advice for every motorcycle that isnt a cruiser with floorboards
Yep it’s definitely an essential skill to know if you want to improve your riding in those disciplines. But if you’re just out there riding for fun and putting around there’s no harm in arches really. People need to practice more critical thinking I believe
![This mistake will get you lost! [Dirt Bike Trail Riding]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/DDTH_9iCzuI/mqdefault.jpg)
![This mistake will get you lost! [Dirt Bike Trail Riding]](/img/tr.png)
Balls of your feet is motocross advice. Enduro is unknown terrain, MX is a set course, where your ankles are used in jumping as suspension. I think a lot of people take all advice from the internet, even mis-matched advice, and cause themselves problems.
Yep! Critical thinking is key!
@ well, if you don’t know, and you aspire to slay on a motocross track but you ride in a field, then listening to a super cross guy you want to become can get you ahead of yourself. Like learning jump rope tricks with an expert’s wire rope; you will slash your head at some point. But it’s hard to learn why. i think critical thinking comes in once you get past the joy of squirting the throttle around all day and first try to go faster by going slower, and paying attention to the many positions and techniques you must know and execute, in rapid sequence, to ride efficiently. Almost every bit of advice is too general or too specific to simply apply directly and improve….you have to come to the point when you test limits, of sliding, of braking into corners, of throttle inputs, clutch work, etc., etc. until it becomes ingrained. brad Lacky (I’m a boomer! Who used to race 1970s motocross and still sees a track in every trail) said training in Europe for CZ involved taking the seat off the bike, filling it with gas, and riding until it was run dry. Of course, that was just motocross.. lol.
I think if you ride on your instep, you get sore
@@take5th yep! To get a bit poetic (lol) time on the bike is like the hanger of experience with which you can hang your coat of advice on.
That is to say, if you don’t have the experience and time on the bike to back it up, the advice you learn online or in classes really doesn’t do much.
The techniques of this sport changes, and evolves constantly. When I was a kid in the early 90s guys always cornered while seated with the inside leg out, and foot up by the shroud. Now they try to stay standing in corners with feet on the pegs whenever possible.
Yeah exactly! It’s so neat to see it evolve
I used the tecnique of sticking my leg out around corners until around 25 years ago, i was on a newish yz400f, stuck my leg out, fell and tore my ACL. I try to ride standing up, on the balls of my feet as much as i possibly can and find it to be less tiring to be standing up, so your knees and feet absorb the impact, not your back. I set my bars and controls to be most comfortable standing up and about the best new knick knack I bought was Steg Pegz, which give you something to hold onto. Just advise from an old rider that works for me
I can't imagine not riding on the balls of my feet. Of course there's some dancing forward and back on the pegs for the controls, but I find so much more control with the ability to articulate the ankles and alter peg pressure. I think of the pegs as similar to ailerons on an airplane, so pressing on one side while de weighting the other can allow the bike to flick from side to side. Of course there's much more to this, but I think it's similar to almost all other sports. They're all played from the balls of the feet, most of the time. Way more options and quickness that way.
You’re 100% right. If you’ve ever tried riding your bike standing up with no hands, you can literally steer it just by pressing down on either foot peg. It’s easy to do on the balls of your feet but much harder on the arches.
Good topic to cover man. I’ve always been a huge one to preach it’s about your own personal preference and what you’re riding. What makes you comfortable and even some of the fastest guys on the tracks I ride and race with switch their form up at times. Comes down to comfort, what your riding even where your riding. I ride different in sand than I do rocks lol but if you can make it happen on the balls of your feet, great. If you ride on the arch and are successful, great. People have to stop worrying so much about these riding academy guys and focus on themselves. Take tips, sure. But don’t change everything about yourself to be uncomfortable and in the long run that will make you sore and destroy yourself. IMO.
Once your comfortable, Then incorporate technique to conquer any obstacles they’re struggling with. I suck ass at MX now a days. lol much prefer XC.
Congrats on hauling ass with the channel man! It’s doing awesome!
Yep exactly! The coaching and tips are helpful for sure, but people often try to apply one tip to every single situation. They should just be focusing on riding more and learning which situations call for which techniques.
And thanks man!
@ exactly that man! 💯% Keep up the tips and help for folks!
Thanks for such a great discussion and a broader mindset around why!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Amen to this Soup.. off road riding is dynamic business, nothing stays static so neither should the riding position. As a non-racing, experienced enduro rider I can't say I've thought much about my foot position, mostly because they just seem to go where I need them. One thing is for sure, in the terrain I ride I use the shit out of my rear brake, everything from jinking to stabilizing the bike. I doubt I'm on the balls of my feet much.
Thanks for the comment! And yeah like you said, they kind of just go where you need. Once you know how to use all the techniques and practice them, they just become second nature
Good points and an interesting topic, especially since I just watched Shane's video you're referring to. I haven't been 100% committed to either foot position, but it's helping me understand what I'm teaching and why the more I think about it.
Thanks for sharing, and thank you for your humility as you teach and refer to Shane and his experience/knowledge. Most people don't want to give others credit or praise for anything, especially on YT :)
Thanks for the comment brother! I like what you’re doing with your channel:)
I feel like a lot of times what happens when people are learning a new skill is that they’re frustrated with maybe a lack of progress or something. So they go to a coach or they look for advice online and they’re just looking for something quick and simple to solve their whole problem.
So they take something like the balls of the feet advice and just try to use it all the time without thinking critically.
So I guess I feel like students as well as teachers should be a little bit better at remembering that they need to think for themselves and really try to analyze WHY they’re using a certain technique in that situation over another.
@@notsoupmoto Thanks :)
Yeah, I agree! But that's human nature - we're just sheep that want to be told what to do unless we stop, think about it, and discern what's right and wrong, or in this case, what's best for our specific needs/goals.
Thanks for sharing.
-Kelley
Thank You Very Much For Sharing and I'm glad to see You're Covering more Topics Relating to Controlling the Dirtbike, I'm still waiting for the Body Position Video.
Glad it was helpful!
WOW, I had no idea my comment would stir up so much controversy. I was just stating what works for me.
Those that always ride on the balls of their feet, how do they cover the rear brake quickly, especially as sharp as most foot pegs are today? With today’s sharp advanced foot pegs, you must pretty much get all of the weight off your foot peg to slide your foot any at all.
Thanks for the video.
Haha yeah it’s been quite a large debate. But I know exactly what you mean and if that works for you then keep doing it! I guess my issue is with people giving blanket advice that can’t possibly apply to all riders. In order to give advice you first have to understand who you’re talking to, their skill level, what type of riding they do, etc etc.
Thanks for your comment it was a great prompt for this video!
Good point
"Those that always ride on the balls of their feet, how do they cover the rear brake quickly, especially as sharp as most foot pegs are today?"
For me i have size 17 feet so the brake is always covered whether i like it or not lol. I have to stand further back than the balls of my feet to miss the controls. I just kinda do both, ride balls and i can still tap the brake while locked in.
@@rustymustard7798 yeah also to cover the rear brake quickly, you do just that… pick your foot up and move it forward quickly.
It’s not really that hard of a movement to do u just gotta practice switching between positions. Comfort and speed will come as you ride more and practice that movement more. For me it’s just second nature now. Same with shifting
@@dirtbikeheaven1129 to your point, it’s less of a “slide” and more of a “pick up and move” forward
Excellent points! Makes sense since enduro and motocross are completely different sports, they would have completely different techniques. If I'm riding enduro, I'll take the enduro guys advice, if I'm riding moto, I'll take the moto guys advice. Moto tracks have key locations to be in specific positions for the most speed; braking, accelerating, whoops, inside corners, outside corners, and jumps. Enduro is more dynamic and unpredictable so it makes sense you have to have access to all controls at all times.
exactly! thanks for the comment!
5:49 i agree about you saying some woods riders arnt so good on mx tracks and some mx riders arnt so good in the woods. Today i went to my local mx track and felt like crap and wasn't having fun, compared to the fun I would've had doing hill climbs, single trick, etc. Made me realize that im going sticking with woods. 😂
Haha yeah with some parts of it there’s crossover but jumps are a wholeee different ballgame
Thx for the comment!
Giving up at something cuz you suck at it? Super American lol. Why not practice both disciplines? Haha
That’s true. It all depends on the situation. You’re not always on the ball of your feet when you’re riding in the woods.
Yep!
Standing is better than sitting whether you're on the balls or arches. The difference between the two positions of balls or arches is subtle and less of a jump in speed than standing. With a gas bike in single track it's difficult to stay on the balls of your feet because for me anyways, I use the rear brake a lot in the woods. On a moto track or fire roads it's easier to get on the balls and stay there. Electric bikes with a hand rear brake eliminate the need to move your feet out of position so riding on the balls full-time is easy.
As an exercise physiologist graduate, I've always strongly disagreed with "dropping your ankles" and standing on the balls of feet. You have MORE "suspension travel" by raising your heels if anything. It's quite simple biomechanically. But more importantly you have a WAY higher injury risk by dropping your heels.
I don’t recall saying to “drop your heels” so if you could time stamp that it would be great.
My point was that when riding on the balls of your feet, you have much more mobility for all sorts of things like bike control and “suspension travel” in the ankles.
When riding on the arches it’s a much more flat footed stance and you have way less mobility in the ankles to control the bike and such.
Like I said, reply back with a time stamp because I could have misspoke.
Awesome video man. Love hearing your perspective on the topic. But even when you watch pro moto riders, or even enduro riders, those dudes don't always have 100% perfect form. Watch back replays of people racing and you'll see that they aren't on the balls of their feet, or standing properly. Balls of your feet are a good starting point. I race harescrambles, and my feet are all over the peg for the 2 hours I'm racing. I also ride moto for fun, and notice it's easier to hold position on a moto track vs in the woods. Everyone is different and you just have to take advice and try it. What works for you may not work for someone else!
Great video man
Totally agree! Even the pros are humans and make mistakes with body position
The point is, the more techniques you learn and practice, the more versatile your tool belt will be. So when a certain obstacle comes up, you just deal with it without even really having to think abt it
@@notsoupmoto Couldn't have said it any better man
I'm surprised that nobody seems to bring up what seems to be an obvious point to me, in that each foot has a very different task (shifting vs braking), so foot positioning should be different. I race hare scrambles and ride single track trails in tight eastern woods. I set my brake pedal so I can cover it all the time sitting or standing because I am on and off the brake continuously, and it's just not feasible to be on the ball of the foot for any length of time because the brake is used so often. On the shifter side however, I tend to ride on the ball of my foot while standing for better maneuverability (and keeping the foot out of danger), as even on the 125s that I normally ride, I'm not shifting nearly as often as I'm actuating the brake pedal. I seldom ride MX, but I would imagine that on a known course with more space between well-defined braking points, the "balls of the feet" stance would be far more useful. At some point I hope to be riding an electric woods bike, and with a LH rear brake, I'm sure my style would change.
whatever works for you is really all that matters at the end of the day
Here’s a thought. If you’re not a skilled enough rider to bring your feet from ball position to cover brakes and shift in time. You shouldn’t even be riding at that level. As someone who went straight into motocross tracks and did trail riding later. My mx riding significantly improved after I learned my foot position/ body position/ squeezing with knees. It’s required. Hit a 20ft jump and don’t do those things, tell me how well it goes for you. Then after that, it’s pretty much common sense when I’m having fun on the trails I don’t always have to be in motor cross position unless I’m squaring up for a jump. Are you in mx position when riding from your truck to the trail? Are you in attack position when doing 15 mph through a straight? Like let’s be for real bikes aren’t for everyone, especially those who can’t do critical thinking for themselves. Learn the basics and when you get your flow and can expand upon that knowledge, leave the internet alone for a bit.
Yeah the critical thinking is what’s lacking here. That needs to be stressed more in training
Some good points made in this video.
Thanks!
Please do a video of doing regular maintenance on a 250f and how often to do it.
Very good points
Thanks!
4:08 this is what’s being conveyed. People used to be able to communicate using shorthand. I think internet culture killed that.
Yeah critical thinking is definitely lacking
I've been trying to developer better technic on my dirt bike mainly for safety and longevity reasons. I've been pushing myself to ride balls of feet and it was such a struggle to get used simply because my feet are small. I'm 5'5"with a 8.5 shoe size. So riding balls of feet and reaching for the brake or for the shifter is a huge effort and it's real difficult to operate the foot controls quickly when needed. I think I'll try to focus less on that. Cool video.
Yeah if you find it getting in the way of just riding, forget about it for now. But it’s definitely a good idea to practice in the future. As you practice and do it more and more it will become second nature
Start with "why"....why would you ride on the balls of your feet? For the same reason every sport talks about an "athletic stance" which involves a stance that requires you to be on the balls of the feet...why? your biomechanics, which you cannot change, allows you to create the most leverage, and therefore balance, over your center of gravity. You will never have a much balance as you can when you are on the balls of your feet. The variable....we have a brake pedal and to your point, especially when offroad, must be utilized frequently, so you will waste time sliding your foot back and forth. Obviously, if you had a rear brake lever that would be optimal because you wouldn't have to use a pedal, but this is only possible on e-bikes.
I'm with you. It depends on the situation and track/trail you're on.
Yup exactly
Great video! Thanks for breaking it down. I saw the same one you watched with Shane as well, and I've always subscribed to using balls of the feet 80% of the time, maybe more. I also don't use the rear brake as much as some folks, so it works for me to ride that way.
Yeah man like I’ve been riding Arenacross a lot lately since it’s winter here and I’m barely ever touching my back brake around the track. Really only to brake tap in the air and that’s it. So I prefer to ride on the balls of my feet pretty much the whole way around.
Thanks for the comment!
Boots have a notch to hold your pegs in the arch, then the controls are available. For jumps if your on your balls then the ankles and knees can squeeze the frame, back to the arches to brake downshift and corner
I'm not sure that's the sole purpose of the heel on the boots but yeah, moving between the balls of your feet and shifting/braking is a pretty easy movement. I feel like some people just need more practice with it. that being said, there are times when covering the rear brake is advantageous
@notsoupmoto *sole purpose....nice pun
Haha
I agree with you and I like how said about moving your whole body all over the bike
yeah man it's true! dirt bike riding is such a dynamic sport so you're always moving around
Subbed
thanks!
Okay.... for most rando guys covering the rear is fine.
When I ride the gnarly I will be hitting step ups that are over 8 feet tall... the bike is pointing up... if my foot was over the brake I would be hitting the rear brake. Yeah I don't think most people are hitting 8 foot ledges but my trials training has taught me that you gotta be able to rotate around the pegs.
SOOO like you are saying.... we need to change depending on what we ride.
Yep I totally agree!
Riddle me this ; how does one change gear continuously on a 125 whilst riding on " balls of feet " never mind the rear brake ...
On my eMX , yup , on me other 3 ICEs , umm really ?
What's yours and every other riders take on that ?
Saw the Shane Watts vid before you did and I'm glad this subject has been raised .
The same way you’d do it on any other bike. Lift your foot off the peg and slide it forward to shift when you need to, then move it back on the peg when you’re done so it’s out of the way. Prevents misshifts and accidental brake dragging too.
It’s really not a difficult movement once you practice it. It becomes second nature.
@@jeffwhite9392 It’s the same on any displacement bike. Lift your left foot off the peg, put it under the shift lever then lift the lever up. Yes, you’ll need to momentarily support all your weight on the right peg. Same for downshifting, except you push the lever down with your left foot. (Not being a smart a$$. )
Take my foot off the peg , umm , on a 125 through the woops & stuff , I'll pass and practise on the eMX for the moment ...
@@jeffwhite9392 when the fuck are you shifting and braking in the whoops?
For technical/hard enduro I usually only slide my feet back for hill climbs or if I find myself in open terrain where i know the braking points. Otherwise i cover the rear brake so I can react quickly and do wheelies on command, since I often dont know and cant see what is coming. Also if you ride a 4 stroke the engine braking lets you be lazy with using the brakes compared to a 2 stroke. I can definitely see the value for mx riding though.
yep! just depends on what situation you're in
thx for the comment
I’d take Chris Birch’s advice over anyone else’s on youtube in his Say No to Slow dirt bike and adv series. Yes, Balls of the feet is the fundamental position which allows you to drop your heels and lock your knees into the tank for control. Now once it’s mastered, of course there are exceptions and situations where covering the brake is necessary for added stability.
Solid advice
You should ride in whatever position is comfortable and allows you to manipulate your bike at any given time.
I would agree w that
Im a lazy sod that sits most of the time. Balls of your feet while sitting bends the knee too much. I know I need to stand more, but I get tired. If I was fit maybe I could be an on the toes rider. Im not going to get too worked up about it!
For MX/SX the default absolutely should be balls of feet, if you leant to be safe and fast. Enduro is its own thing and I know little about it, so I can’t opine on that.
Yep, all depends on the discipline and terrain you’re riding in
One more reason to get a left hand brake if you can. Assuming you have a left hand brake is there much reason to not ride on the balls of your feet?
Considering that you’re using the clutch a ton, I think it’s more practical, at least in motocross and woods riding to have the rear foot brake and not a hand brake
@@notsoupmoto Some don't use the clutch except at the start. I did it even in woods - just clicked it up and down no clutch on a 2-stroke.
Now I have an all electric though so no clutch at all.
Good luck putting pressure on the pegs without ball of feet positioning
Its balls of your feet with a vertical lower leg specifically....the knee position not going more forward than the feet pegs while standing applies for all diciplines. The picture in the thumbnail shows bad body positioning (knees too far fwd). Didnt bother with the video since proper posture and foot position has long been established.
Nice man 👍🏼 always smart to comment on a video you didn’t even watch 😂
@@notsoupmoto it wasn't a criticism, just being honest.
There’s more nuance to it than just saying “proper posture and foot position has long been established” tho. My whole video is about why dirt bike riding is a dynamic sport and there’s not just ONE proper body position. U completely missed the point by just looking at the title and thumbnail and not watching any of the video
@@notsoupmoto didn't miss anything bud, it's all been said for years now. Especially after taking courses from top Enduro guys (like Chris Birch). But what did you expect going for the click bait title and thumbnail....you got your engagement lol
@ 👍🏼
I don’t move around from balls of feet to middle of feet to heel of foot. I’m locked in the middle on the pegs like you’re locked into ski bindings. I become part to the bike and lean my weight (body English) where I need to be. This way I’m Not wearing myself out early and I can last all day long on the trails. I flow Really well like those guys you see in hard enduro. Watch what they do. What works for me might Not work for you. Experiment and teach yourself how to Flow.
I don’t think it’s advised to really ever be on your heel
But yeah I agree, whatever works for you is all that really matters.
Only upshifting bro , don't panic !!! eMX makes this a non - issue & balls of feet is easy as you've probably found after riding I'm thinking ...
Do like me Varg .
P.S. Good Foot Pegs Matter!
True
Idk about you guys, but unless I’m trying to lock it up to slide it around, my rear brake doesn’t really do shit, so I don’t really use it, I don’t know if this is an issue with my bike or if I have poor technique, just my experience.
Nope it’s true. Braking is usually done like 80% front brake 20% rear. Most of the time I’m not even touching the rear unless I’m also pulling in the front a little
ankles proprioceptors full work when on balls of your feet, otherwise you rely on knees ones, and internal ear . so you are loosing the first source of information and control about balance.. Working static balance shows it very simply.... And so many guys rely on back brake, because they don't practice front braking and end afraid of it.... that said, another point you could mention is that more guys ride siting in USA than Europe... Another topic ;) But some enduro bikes, by geometry and weight distribution are better riding on balls than flat feet and even sitting.... thanks for the video ! (just as looking at Billy Bolt videos, he doesn't care about being on balls or not 🤣🤣🤣)
had no idea about any of the receptor stuff lol very interesting! but agree 100% on all the other stuff too. thanks for the comment!
Foot over Brake = FoB
Motogymkhana FoB 95%
Track 600/1000 cc FoB 5%
MX FoB 40%
Supermoto FoB 20%
Street City FoB 75%
Street Highway FoB 30%
These are my estimates. They might not be yours.
I don't have any experience with the stuff other than MX...
but i'd say with MX it's a tossup. most braking at least in my experience is done with majority front brake. exceptions are brake tapping in the air to adjust bike angle for a downside or trying to slide the back end in a tight turn. aside from that, rear brake use is very minimal so you don't really need to have your foot over the brake up until the very moment you decide to use it.
even in an example like brake tapping in the air, i'm on the balls of my feet the whole way up until both tires leave the face of the jump. it's not until i'm fully in the air that i'll take my foot off the peg and move it forward for the brake tap.
so idk... 40% foot over the brake may be a little high but it varies from person to person too
thanks for the comment! especially input on other disciplines like those
@@notsoupmoto Agreed. In many cases (exception Motogym) I will move my right foot forward only when rear brake is needed.
With Motogym I will come into a corner wide with my head turned 180 looking into the corner apex. I am looking near opposite my riding direction. I will then squat the bike hard using the rear brake, turn in and then exit out with the throttle. During the whole process my right foot is over the rear brake tucked against the clutch case to prevent catching the ground. I will keep it there most of time. With MX I would not really do this, I would come in less wide, look more forward, apply the brake before hand and then get back on the balls of my foot and get on the gas to make the exit.
What is important about the above list is the fact that all of the riding surfaces are normalized. Except with MX. That is to say that MX (supermoto kinda as well) can be any kind of surface from sand to gravel to pebbles and rocks to what not. That makes it more difficult to pin down what is the way to go with respect to riding position and rear brake control.
In MX it is much more situational since the riding surface is less normalized and the bends and speeds differ greatly. So just as you stated: with MX it is a tossup (what also plays a role is the amount of engine braking. In particular with 4-stroke).
Otherwise stated, on track with a liter bike the road surface is more normalized with wide corners and much (much) higher speeds. My movements are more lateral than forward or back and I am most always on the balls of my feet (exception is changing gears). But I am barley using the rear brake (only very tight corners).
For dense city street driving (I am in north western Europe where this time of year, rain, hail, snow and high winds) I need to be ready with both brakes frequently. In particular for sudden stops. So I am going to have my foot over the rear brake much more often. Hard yet docile breaking is important.
Stick to enduro my dude, moto techniques are a lot different. Different styles of riding call for different styles of body positions
I literally say this exact thing in the video
Left hand rear brake is supeior to foot rear brake 😂
A hand brake for the rear is wild lol
@notsoupmoto it's the best
Hey Mr Soup totally aggree with you not with Shane . Must add Shane WAS ! fast in sand not rocks and not tech stuff . It's funny i,m a ex pro mtb er come hard enduro wanker bit trialsy B grade Mx rider and the mtb world has the same argument over were you put you foot on the pedals . The one thing I try to never do is put my foot out round corners since I like my knees oh i can here Wattsy from the other side of the word freaking out you got a sit down in the turns blah blah. How many knee rebuilds have you had Shane . I rather watch guys like Eli Tomac and Billy Bolt , Meggs Bratt ride at times on the balls with style and control .
haha yeah the foot out for stabilization was a big thing in the past... but now, as technique has evolved, the foot/leg should really never be sticking out away from the bike in a turn. Either on the pegs or if you are going to take your foot off, it should be way up by the front fender tucked in close to the bike. It has nothing to do with stabilization which is a common misconception. The purpose of the foot up by the fender is to weight the front of the bike to help give it more traction around the turn. AJ Catanzaro does some great videos explaining this concept!
*at least in MX/SX. of course other disciplines require a foot to be dabbed for different reasons I'm sure
Thanks for the comment!
"dont do this" unless youre actually riding a motocross bike how its supposef to be ridden
Simply put riding on the balls of your feet is appropriate advice, when you need to use your REAR brake then you position your foot to use it period... otherwise do not leave you feet there, dragging your feet on the brakes is POOR riding technique regardless of what skill level they are and many times creates conditions where the rear brake fails or locks up. I've had several pros off road and motocross pros all say riding on the balls of your feet is the default position because it gives you the ability to shift to the brake position when needed and then back to the balls of your feet where you have the optimum level of control over the bike. All forms of riding are dynamic regardless of what type of terrain you're encountering and it comes down to common sense it really not that complicated... going down a steep hill you're foot position should be covering the rear brake because you're needing them... when you're not needing them put them back where they belong on the goddamn pegs.
Precisely! And that’s the whole thing that so many of these people are missing: critical thinking
Balls of the feet is motocross advice. Its also sport bike advice as well. You also wont see any trials rider not on the balls of their feet. Its maybe not perfect for every situation or discipline but its good basic advice for every motorcycle that isnt a cruiser with floorboards
Yep it’s definitely an essential skill to know if you want to improve your riding in those disciplines. But if you’re just out there riding for fun and putting around there’s no harm in arches really. People need to practice more critical thinking I believe