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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 ต.ค. 2024
- I know I've been off the usual Friday upload schedule, but I was busy this weekend watching my boys take 3 out of 4 from the Dodgers in LA. Shoutout to my girlfriend for being a good sport about watching the Braves do Braves things at Dodger Stadium.
This video splits a crowd, and for good reason. Do we sacrifice the value of competitive integrity, all because the best player from a cheating-ridden era decided to add to his God-given talents? Or do we accept that an era was less than desirable from a competitive balance perspective, and recognize the accomplishments for what they are?
Bonds was the best player I ever saw in my 5 decades of watching baseball, steroids or no steroids. It's not even close. The guy was a menace with a bat.
Ken Griffey was his equal.
@@richardtomasek And no steroids
@@richardtomasek no Griffey was NOT his equal, NObody who has ever held a bat is Bonds' equal...
Yeah 90s Griffey was the better then pre Roids Bonds why he was voted unanimous player of the decade by players and media but post Roids Bonds broke baseball but without Roids he would have faded in his late 30s not had his 4 best seasons of his career
Also Bonds was one of the biggest chokers in the post season history by a super star pre his Roided freak 2002 run
It takes a lot of guts to defend Barry Bonds. I love it.
I don’t condone cheating in any way shape or form, but in an era without proper policies and testing it’s no stretch to assume everyone was doing it, guilty or not.
@@thebobapapi you can't even call it cheating because it wasn't even against the rules at the time...
oh I'm on the same page as you, for sure
I do!!
Respect for defending him. To me though, it doesn't take guts because he's the best hitter ever by a wide margin
Barry Bonds is the greatest of all time. Hall of fame or not, we never stopped talking about him. You can’t name half the players in the hall of fame but Barry bonds will always be in your memory.
Agreed. I'm sure Barry faced plenty of pitchers who were either on the juice, and/or using some sort of stickum or variant to better grip the ball to increase spin rate.
Hall of shame!!!! Because they won't let Barry and many others in the HOF were they belong!!!! THANK YOU FOR THIS VIDEO!!! 👍🏻👏🏻
Didn't David Ortiz test positive for steroids in the Mitchell report but that fool's in the HOF
Yes Indeed!
No - ortiz was not named in the Mitchell Report, but he did have 1 failed PED test in 2003, but it was for a substance that was not on the banned list at the time so he wasn’t suspended
@@brycewoods3164 ortiz was not named in the Mitchell report
@WeirdScienceComics but he did test positive for a banned substance. He got admitted into the Hof cause they liked him and they hated Bonds.
@@elbori4365 Nope, he never officially tested positive for any banned substance - the testing began in 2004. It is alleged that he had a positive test in 2003 when the league tested players to decide if PEDs were enough of a problem to implement the official testing - those positives weren't official and didn't lead to suspensions. The first PED suspension wasn't until 2005.
Bonds belongs in rhe Hall of Fame.
Baseball is supposed to be fun.
Two very true statements, and Bonds was fun to watch whether being young and a 5 tool player that was the best in MLB, or muscled up and just godzilla at the plate. He was horrible to get along with, but he was fun to watch. Every honest person should admit that... and he hit lots of bombs off guys that were just as juiced as he was, but he was better than them.
There is at least a dozen gold glove winners in his era that unanimously agree he's the best by far
Bonds actually didn’t use in ‘98, so you can include those stats too
First 11 seasons he averaged 34 home runs a season. He played 10 seasons after that. So if you take his average of 34 homers a season, thats 340 home runs plus the 374, that adds up to 714. I think he still gets the record with or without steroids. I don't care if he took them or not. The league did everything they could to try and stop him with all the intentional walks. Noone was ever and will never be walked at a pace that bonds was walked. Bud Selig and the MLB turned a cold shoulder on the steroid use becuase the ratings went back up. It is not right that Selig is in the hall of fame and all the people that took steroids aren't.
He's the greatest player ever. People have a right to be wrong.
No point arguing when it's this obvious. Bonds stands alone.
I first saw Barry Bonds play in both the 1991 and 1992 NLCS. I knew of the hype and heard all about the talent. In each NLCS, against The Braves. In the 1992 NLCS, with Sid Bream on 2nd, I never thought Bream would score on a single. The reason The Braves won The 1992 NLCS, is because when Sid Slid, Bonds, was the one who couldn’t throw Bream out. I recall a game where Bonds was intentionally walked with the bases loaded. I didn’t take a real look at Bonds until 2001. I knew if Bonds had retired by 2000 he would’ve been a HOF selection, first ballot. From 2001-2007 Bonds was an exciting player to watch.
The fact the 'bases loaded IBB' is called the Bonds treatment should tell you everything you need to know
@@thebobapapi Just like when a pitcher throws a “Maddox”. When apitcher tosses a complete-game shutout on fewer than 100 pitches. Which you don’t see much in today’s baseball. I can’t recall the last time a team decided to give the opposing batter a Bonds IBB. That’s just insane to intentionally walk a batter with the bases loaded. That’s showing some R-E-S-P-E-C-T. The conscious decision to walk in a free run, knowing you’re gonna face the next batter with the bases still loaded.
Barry’s stats from 1986 to 1998 are HOF worthy. just omit the steroid years then
You forget the word alleged. It’s all circumstantial with zero physical evidence. He said she said with zero failed test.
I have nothing but respect for Hank Aaron. To do what he did--break Ruth's records as an African American player and playing in Atlanta at the same time--is incredible. However, what is not talked about is that Atlanta Fulton County Stadium was a great hitter's park. When the park opened in 1966, Aaron was 32, and for roughly the next decade, when usually you'd expect a hitter's performance to decline due to aging, he basically averaged the same number of HRs per year as he had prior to 1966. San Francisco ballparks have never been great places for hitters. What if Mays and Aaron had switched teams in 1966? Who would the all time HR king be? Then there's the fact that old Yankee Stadium favored left-handed hitters. My point is there have always been contextual factors involved. Maybe we should not focus on the numbers and the comparisons and just appreciate the greatness we have witnessed on the baseball field
I think part of that uniqueness in baseball makes measures like OPS+, ERA+ and wRC+ so important to look at these days, but for as long as we will continue to have baseball nothing will get people excited quite like home runs (and breaking home run records).
I do love your point about just appreciating greatness while it's in front of us. Wish more people would have that same attitude. Life's too short, enjoy what you have while you have it.
In fact, starting in 1967, the Braves moved their fences in so Aaron could more easily hit home runs. The NL made them move the fences back for the 1969 season, after complaints from opposing pitchers that the park's dimensions did not meet MLB requirements, giving up many "cheap" home runs.
At the end of the 1998 season:
445 stolen bases,
411 jacks,
3X MVP
8X all star,
8X gold glover,
7X silver sluggers
5X leader in OPS
All before his alleged ped usage began in 1999, in 2000 he miraculously hit a career high 49 homers in 2000 at age 35 and followed up with 73 at 36 when he went on his Mr. Olympia steroid stack.
He’s a first ballot HOF if he retires in 1998 before his suspicions power surge in his mid 30’s.
He’s 100% deserving.
This is the kind of comment that makes sense
Yes, he would be in if he didn't cheat, no doubt. But he cheated guys!
@@thebobapapiyou can take 1000 tests in school, but if you cheat on the 1001, you are a cheater! Doesn’t matter if you had a perfect grade point average and would have been the valedictorian - you cheated and have to deal with the consequences. The excuse of everybody did it is how 6 year-olds try to get out of trouble! Bonds knew what would happen if he got caught and took steps to avoid detection, but also to avoid perjuring himself if he was questioned. He just couldn’t stand McGuire and Sosa getting more attention so it was his Ego that is ultimately keeping him out of the HOF
He Should Be In The Hall Of Fame...
The BBWAA already showed their inconsistency and bias when they elected David Ortiz to the MLB Hall of Fame... In my biased opinion, I want Bonds in the HOF even if just purely on him being the all-time leader in BB -- or even just due to the 232 BB (232!!!) he had in 2004.
The fact that being intentionally walked with the bases loaded is called the bonds treatment says all we need to know
@@thebobapapiindeed
even though you're a Braves guy (will never forgive your boys for '93, BUT am in awe of y'all this year, and big ups for f**king the despised Dodgers), this lifelong SF Giant fan (6th gen Bay Area native!) appreicates your honesty in this case, and you've just earned a thumbs up (#99) and a sub (return the favor for some good music, my album coming out soon!)... i got to see Bonds' father and his godfather WIllie Mays, among other greats of 60's and onwards, and NObody had the hand/eye coordination as a hitter that Barry did, and that has NOTHING to do w/steroids! we must also remember that players, including Mays, Mantle, et al, before PEDs & steroids were munching methamphetamines like they were candy (and that DOES help not only stamina, but DOES help hand/eye coordination!) Barry (and for that matter, Roger) not being in HoF is a travesty!
Well, hey there Jenifer. Another lifelong G's fan here. Bay Area native, I was 8 years old when the club came West and I've bled orange ever since. We could go on for hours about the various Giants eras-what was right and wrong in each, but let me stay on point here.
When Bonds came over from the Pirates (several years before the 'Roid Era) everybody expected him to be an arrogant jerk. Why? Because he was never willing to tug his cap and play the "yassuh, just grateful to be here" game with the sportswriters. And, yeah. Fair to say he did not disappoint on that count. But-and this was the big "but" for me:
Far beyond the legacy stuff. Growing up around the clubhouse around all those giant Giants of my youth (Willie Mays is his godfather fer crissakes!), what really won me over in that pre-juice era was his play. And not even so much his performance at the plate. I mean, it was awesome, as Owen details in his piece, but it was also pretty much expected.
What really sold me was his defense. And not even the spectacular catches in Left that would be turning up the next weekend on TWIB. But it was the "little stuff." In those days, at least as far as I was aware, there weren't any quantifiable measurements for this stuff (I was never involved in a rotisserie league, and I know at that time they were tracking a lot of stats nobody else was using yet).
But the read he would get on balls off the bat, his amazing ability to take the right first step every damned time, and a half-second sooner than most outfielders could, gave him an amazing edge.
Not talking so much about getting to fly balls average outfielders wouldn't reach, but also his ability to cut off base hits in the gap; turn sure doubles into singles, stop the runner on First from coming all the way around to score.
You had to be watching a lot of games to even realize the impact that was having. Fortunately for me, we still owned a share of season tickets in Lower Boxes just ten rows or so back on the Third Base side in those days. So we saw a lot of play live, where you aren't dependent on the shot selection of the director in the TV truck to see what's happening across the field.
I'm old enough I got to see Mays play a handful of times, but not old enough to have understood, when I saw him in his prime, just how amazing he was at every facet of the game. And once I was a mature enough fan, he was at the end of his career. The charisma was still there, and the pride. But the skills had been dulled by age.
So, as another commenter said somewhere in this thread, #25 was also for me the best I ever saw play the game. And that doesn't have a damned thing to do with career home run totals, or the fact that he was such a threat in those later "monster slugger" seasons that we actually saw him issued intentional walks with the bases loaded a few times.
Yes, I'm a Giants fan. And I understand we are talking about the player fans everywhere else, across both leagues, loved to hate. But whether he was a jerk to your team's beat writers or not, whether he DID juice (never proven, let's remember) in an era when MLB's posture on PEDs was, at best, wishy-washy and players at all levels of play openly had the shit sitting on the shelves of their lockers, he dominated the game in a way few players in the history of baseball have.
@@beachdog67 yes, his D was superlative to say the least, Gold Glove pretty much every year from what i recall... wow you guys had season box seats just 10 rows from field? i am bubbling over w/jealousy, i would have practically lived at the ballpark, even if it was the Stick (which as we all know, was the Pits!)... Barry's stats pre roids, by themselves, are more than sufficient to qualify him for HoF, it is a mockery to not include Bonds (and Clemens, she muttered almost involuntarily) in its Hallowed Halls at Cooperstown!
@@jdmagicmusic We initially were invited to join the group that held those four seats sometime back in the '80s (pre-Roger Craig) when tickets for games at The Stick were not exactly a hot commodity.
I'm not sure how old you are, but that was an era when you could walk up to the ticket window a half hour before first pitch and get a pair of decent grandstand seats (unless maybe it was a Dodger series).
We managed to hang on to 'em through the Will Clark era; finally had to let the seats go in the early '90s (I want to say the year before the lockout/strike, but my memory on that could be off by a season or two).
Of course in those days the cost, especially if several folks had shares, was fairly manageable. Any more, 4 box seat season tickets are about as much as a down payment on a house.
[Unh-oh, Grandpa's grumbling again.]
@@beachdog67 you mentioned being 8 when they moved west, so i think you have 4 yrs on me (i'm 67 y.o.)
@@jdmagicmusic I'm (checks calendar for the year) 73 now, so close enough for Cowboy Joe West to call a strike.
1) Great argument for Bonds. Never thought I'd say that.
2) Every except Griffey Jr.
AKA - Jr.
AKA - The Kid
AKA - The NATURAL!!!!;
Jim Bouton Ball Four : All were on uppers.
phenomenal video and very true.. Barry Bonds is the best baseball player to ever live
Thank you! Appreciate those kinds words. Barry is probably the GOAT until Ohtani displays longevity
@@thebobapapiwe will never see someone as elite as Barry ever again
The goat 🐐
Barry Bonds is the best baseball player ever
I was against him getting in until Selig was voted in. If the commissioner, that more than likely knew about usage, and owners/managers, that more than likely encouraged usage, can get in the hall then why cant the players? The first suspension for steroids did not occur until 2005. Leadership/ownership did nothing about steroids until then because it was beneficial to them.
Pete Rose should be HOF, if there is any man who deserves it, it's him.
Pete cheated too. I agree he should be in.
No. Never. Ever. no comparison to Bonds. At all.
You are comparing apples to oranges. Pete Rose bet on baseball. Nobody can confirm or deny that he didn't bet on his team to lose and then ensure that his team would lose. There's also point shaving. When you do what Pete Rose did, that introduces some shady people. People that baseball probably don't want to be associated with.
@@josephabrams4059 Pete cheated in other ways. From corked bats to speed to possible steroids late in his career.
"No one in the modern era of baseball is more closely associated with steroid use than Barry Bonds."
Jose Canseco: "Hold my Juice."
hahaha a good shout i'll give you that
Thank you for saying it.
Juicing doesn’t improve your ability to hit the ball 😂
Yes it does. Increased muscle = increased bat speed and reaction time. In what fantasy world are those not 2 extremely important factors in hitting?
@@unkledoda420 if you have fast reaction and huge muscles, it would improve your hitting? How? Hahaha
The problem with Bonds isn't steroids, it's that he lies about it to this day. McGuire admitted to it and so did Sosa. Cheating is bad, lying about it is disqualifying.
Steroids don’t put the barrel to the ball. I think foolish bailey has a video about this a couple years ago that helped me grow too. And the character argument is such bullshit on so many fronts. Not only do you have hall of famers like Ty Cobb that were notorious racists & things of the like, but looking to the baseball writers as the moral arbiters of the hall of fame is just clown behavior
what really bothers me about writers being the 'sacred gatekeepers' of the hof and the major awards is that only 30 of them get to vote at a time for the awards. I know it's a bit more for hof but still, not great that the sample is so narrow. I get why, just don't like it.
tbh bailey would be a dream to collab with, considering he's also from atlanta (i think?) one day, though...one day
Bonds was crazy, insane good.
Hated him as a kid, would give anything to watch him in his prime now as an adult
He broke the 61 home run record unless games but he was using steroids which increases one's* Fast Flash muscle reaction* race car race regular gas or somebody juices up the gas that's one example
The best to ever do it. Period !
Personally, I agree that Bonds deserves to be in the HOF, no doubt. However, I question if he could have hit 762 home runs without the help of steroids. I still consider Hank Aaron as the all time home run champion because he didn't use any performance enhancement substances. Just to be clear, I am a little biased because I'm a Braves fan and Georgia native.
except he did, as did other stars of his contemporary. Look up 'greenies' and what they actually are and they come back and still say Aaron wasn't on PED's
The Hall of Fame is just a museum..it's not Heaven. You cannot tell the full story of the greatest game ever invented without Shoeless Joe, Pete Rose and the juiced era sluggers.
Luis Gonzales look at the numbers....Give me a break...Bonds was the Greatest Period!
Fact: Barry Bonds' hat size went up directly in proportion to his steroid/HGH-powered home runs.
I keep it simple... I agree he belong in the Hall of Fame!
The greatest player I've ever seen i don't care what anyone says and baseball knew about it and didn't care and everyone was doing it
The 🐐 GOAT, I don’t care what you
Say
Rodger Clemens was never caught using steroids and never admitted to using steroids his name was thrown into the mix because of rumors and accusations and if anybody deserves to be in the Hall of Fame it deserves to be Rodger Clemens the greatest picture probably that ever played baseball
All I gotta say is Barry bonds is the best mlb player no doubt steroids or not steroids won’t help you hit the ball period maybe it helps you have more power but not being able to hit the ball
Bonds had a charity for kids who were sick. He also visited them.
totally agree with this video!
Fact is . Bonds was a lock before he took steroids Simply because he couldn't stand all the publicity Mark McGuire and Sammy Sosa so he made a costly decision to bulk up and it destroyed his legacy BUT HE DIDN'T NEED STEROIDS HE'S A HALL OF FAME WORTHY ! BUT
NO CHEATERS ALLOWED..
No cheaters allowed in the Hall of Fame? Ok, fair, but why do we need to establish that precedent now, where amphetamines were super common in the days of Mantle/Maris/etc. ? It's really unfair to players who happened to play in the 90s and 2000's to hold them to a different standard that wasn't observed years ago.
@@thebobapapi If I had a vote Clemmons and Bonds would have been in Roger, took roids
to prolong his career. He was a lock before he was Toronto !
countless cheaters have gotten in, including people on the damn mitchel report!
This is a waste of your time. Saying that everyone in the game used steriods to defend your argument is laughable
He cheated he didnt care about the repercussions. His previous accomplishments are over shadowed by his decision
I would have little to no issue with putting him in the hall if he would admitted what he did. But he still denies any wrong doing.
He should NEVER get in
Explain that first statement? You can't tell one person nun of his accomplishments count when a large number of players were doing the same. You showing a bias or not trying to see the whole picture.
Bonds may be the best baseball player ever - even before he used steroids. I don't care what people's opinions are about the hall of fame or his numbers don't count or whatever. You don't want him in, fine. But the fact is still Bonds may be the best baseball player ever - even before he used steroids.
Thanks for taking the time to drop a comment, I do get what you're saying for sure. But you can't ignore that there are a lot of valid points w/r/t his candidacy as one of the greatest to ever play. His numbers, for sure, are inflated as are everyone else's who played in that era. But that doesn't mean that we can't recognize those accomplishments for what they are.
@@Ouijawii he wasn’t the best player ever before steroids! He was a hall of famer, but not the best ever!
He probably does belong in one way to the HOF but he ruined that when he cheated. All the career numbers and his records set will always have an asterisk for most. Hard to justify cheating to beat records when you’re already very talented.
How many World Series did he win? I forget.
players from the steroid era already have that asterisk, and their numbers for sure are inflated by that logic. But at the same time, strength does not directly correlate to success in hitting. If it did, Daniel Vogelbach would be one of the best players in the league, and Giancarlo Stanton would still be an MVP.
Maybe the roiders should have their own hall of fame then. This is just my opinion so no matter. However, I think enough people share my opinion given he never got voted into the HOF yet@@thebobapapi
Definitely enough players for their own hall, that's for sure. I don't really think he ever will get voted in, I've just always been fascinated by this topic and I think it's worth discussing at the very least.
Do you know how many admitted cheaters there are in the HOF??
^this. The HoF is not the sacred institution that so many people bill it to be, so why should certain players undergo scrutiny the likes of which is borderline unprecedented?
The astros reference was great 😂
Barry Bonds does not belong in the Hall of Fame. Let all the juicers rot outside the Hall.
At 6:09 yes
Played college ball in 2001 - 2002 & coaches basically told players that hey needed to take steroids to compete. Glad bonds made mlb clean baseball up.
I think Canseco had way more to do with that than anyone else.
Well said. I agree.
Nobody could break a record if it's not done in the same time or sooner and it's about it bats how many times they've stood in the Box and what did they do that's it can't break a record if you don't do it in the same frame that would be like running a race and somebody getting a different length to run
Any record that stands for more than 20 years should be considered protected meaning no one can break it. For example, Babe Ruth's single season home run record stood for 34 years. When Roger Morris hit 61 home runs in 1961, a new record was set, however it should not be counted as breaking the Babe's record if that makes sense. The window to break the Babe's record would have been between 1928 and 1947. Barry Bonds broke Mark McGwire's single season home run record because he did it in less than 20 years. McGwire did not break Roger Morris's single season home run record because it stood for 37 years.
No he does not belong in the hall of fame, he is a cheater. He was very very good AND STILL decided to cheat. The mere fact he is even recognized as the all time HR leader is absolutely disgusting.
Believe me, as a Braves fan it's really hard to accept that Bonds is the all-time leader. But again, playing in the steroid era comes with its own asterisk but we don't need to automatically exclude an entire generation. Especially when two of the more well-known hitters from that era put on a display that made baseball sexy again (at least, to people who were on the fence. Nonbelievers are so much harder to convince)
Hall of Famer Mike Schmidt admitted in his autobiography that he used amphetamines and he got in.
Yeah, during the time Barry was pursuing the HR record, I had this helpless feeling. Even if he retired before I was born, Hank Aaron was still one of my baseball heroes growing up. Just seeing footage of 715 when I was a kid filled me with such awe and wonder. Barry was a great player, no doubt. However, he wasn't a big HR hitter before 2001. He didn't even get to 50 in a season. Then all of a sudden at age 36 he hits 73? Everyone knew he was taking PED's to break the record. Yet, all we could do was just stand by and watch as this record was being taken down. The only recompense we have is that he doesn't get into the HOF. He decided to take PED's and take the record. He doesn't get into the HOF. He made his choice.
Just read about how the media and fans treated his Dad and Godfather…would we be friendly to the media after this?
GOAT
Yes you are completely out of your mind. Hank Aaron is the career home run champ and Dave Winfield was justified in his anger towards those who unfairly entered the 500 home run club absent putting in the real work due to PEDS.
Barry Bonds is being singled out. Not fair
FACTS
Along with McGwire, Palmiero, Sheffield, ARod, Clemens.....
No, he's not being singled out.😊
he's usually the first name that comes to mind (hyperbolizing is a thing lol)
@@thebobapapi true, but he's hardly being singled out. The taint of the PED era is pervasive.
He was already heading to the HOF and got jealous of McGuire and Sammy Sosa! He didn’t need them for his play, just for his immensely swelled head! I mean immensely swelled head!
If steroids helped you hit home runs and draw walks.. Professional Bodybuilding wouldn't exist anymore with the MLB contracts these days
Barry Bonds was part of what’s wrong with the game of baseball.
he was a symptom of an era where there was no sophisticated drug testing in the game
@@thebobapapi Excuses for knowingly cheating to gain the advantage.
@@thebobapapi He wasn’t a symptom of anything. He chose to take the best steroids money could buy in order to gain an advantage over the players that didn’t. There is no excuse for blatant cheating in sports.
hmmmm no... I do understand the point of recognizing Bonds incredible talent before he used PEDS. But that shouldn't be an excuse to give him a pass, and the argument that "everyone used" is just simply false. You're failing to take into consideration the players that did not juiced and had an unfair disadvantage when compared to those who did.
"Winning at all cost" is something we should still reject instead just simply accepting it because "everyone else is doing it".
Point taken, but the correlation between strength via performance enhancing substances and success in putting the bat on the ball with the right approach in the right situation with the right technique isn't as clear cut as you'd think. It's an unfair competitive advantage for sure, but it only strengthens the case for those who didn't indulge and still put forth stellar careers in that same era.
This take also goes with the stros, wasnt the only team that cheated, they hat all the hate because they the best, or in that season , just like Barry bonds
Not saying what he and the stros did were good
I threw in the bit about the Astros bc it's the team we all love to hate lol but at this point I hate y'all because you're so damn good.
@@thebobapapi at this point most Astros fans like the hate,kinda
@@thebobapapiyou threw in the bit about the Astros because people will comment about it and more comments mean the algorithm pushes your video more.
Bonds, Big Mac, Rose. All HOF!
It’s a sin they are not in there.
Give me a steroid league anytime!
I say let Bonds, McGwire, et. al. in the HOF. Also Pete Rose. If they want to caveat the plaques, fine, but they should be in the Hall.
Two things Barry's dad had a better throwing arm and was faster. The second he came at the right place at the right time and steroids had nothing to do it. During his playing period specifically 1994 and onward the strike zone shrunk, the balls were super juiced (and still are) and Barry like Alphonso Soriano realized the benefit of maple bats. He is a star, but his numbers like many from that period would of never put up those numbers in other era's. Sosa hitting far more homers in a three year period then Henry Aaron ever did????? Sosa was not in Aaron's league. Largely the incredible inflated stats then be attributed to Bud Selig.
Wrong - Aaron took amphetamines and admitted it in his book. Amphetamines were rampant in the 60s!
Bobby Bonds struck out way too much, hence the lower batting ave.
BB is being blackballed!
He cheated, pure and simple. He was already a great player but he took PEDs which kept him stronger through the year.
There is no question he would have gotten in without them. Sosa and McGwire juiced up and you don't hear anyone crying about them getting in the HOF, do you?
Do You Think Ken Griffey Jr Used Steroids ? How About Craig Biggio? Chipper Jones? Tony Gwynn? Cal Ripken Jr?
Not Derek Gee-da.
Love this video, this is exactly what iv been saying for decades, HE WAS A HALL OF FAMER EVEN BEFORE THE STEROIDS STUFF, it's also funny that they still have never proven he took steroids but who cares when the whole league is on roads, football is the same way. I feel like they stick it to Barry because he's a super arrogant asshole of a person and he treated the media that way too so when they finally found a way to stick it back to him the media took full advantage.
there has to be one singular target, apparently, and when you're the best you usually end up being that target.
Also still wild to me that the YT algorithm is promoting one of my oldest videos hahaha
@@thebobapapi 💯, agreed!
Barry Bonds is so much better then the second best in his sport. The distance is the greatest in sports history in this country and soccer as well. *Idk about cricket, darts, rowing crew, high jump, or pool. There's others but I have a grasp on most popular sports. LeBron has MJ where the distance is probably the closest it gets. You then have Nicholas and Tiger probably the second closest distance. I guess Bonds has Ruth but I think if we had a time machine for all these guys Tiger would overtake Nicholas something he couldn't do against his health and a much more talented field which transpires sports. Evolution is never more glaring then in sports it's part of the reason I think LeBrons better then MJ. It really is a testament to Wayne Gretsky still holding onto that belt in hockey also Pele in Soccer and Ali still in Boxing but the distance isn't as far away as the distance between Barry and whoever you got at second best, it may not be as close as the NBA debate but it's not glaringly far away for those three. You have to factor in so many things because this is a loaded premise but I stand by it and I will save it in my notes for the next time someone says Barry wasn't the best. Tom Brady's line has a distance but it's not as big as it seems. Look at what Brees did to the record books with Peyton also what Joe and Terry did with the rings and now what Mahomes is doing now. Consider he had the best coach in every game he played in as a pro and awesome defense in the beginning and a goat mentality with some arm talent as well. If only Kraft wasn't so cheap and a good GM drafted the players every year while belichick just stuck to coaching. They would of won even more and maybe the distance would be farther for tb12. A time machine would only help Bonds more then the rest of them as well cause if babe Ruth is who your calling second best and we just put em side by side.... Let's just say it would be embarrassing for one of them. Time machine might not be so nice to Wayne Gretsky or Pele either but we don't have one. On the subject woman's tennis has woman who are actually kind of close to Serina Williams but again a time machine would make that distance even greater. For this argument men's tennis is where it's at because I got to watch all three of the Goats all just take away from each other being truly the diamond era of tennis, talk about a small ass distance between first and third. That's one that's not even really clear like the NBA one. To me if it's not LeBron, MJ, and Kareem in some order I don't respect your basketball opinions in this comparison I think that Nadal would be Kareem cause for most people he is prolly number 3 on most everyone's list. I think if the joker wins one more somehow maybe he separates a little bit more. Also the distance between Usain Bolt and the guy right behind him is like the NBA. Usain Bolt racing against whoever is reading this that isn't a track star is the distance between Barry and second best.
Yea, they made Bonds the scapegoat.
Jose Canseco’s twin brother used steroids too.
The entire league, my ass.
80-something guys on the Mitchell Report is a pretty substantial chunk of the league, and that's just the guys who got caught
@@thebobapapi Thank you for confirming my accurate rebuke to your lame claim: 10% is not 100%
No he doesn’t…. U don’t get better at 35yrs old..
Tell that to Charlie Morton lol but in all seriousness, yes it's unlikely for someone to improve as much as he did and we all know the reason why. But strength doesn't directly correlate to success - still gotta put the bat on the ball and have the right approach.
Who shouldn't be in the HoF?
Bonds may have cheated but nobody brings up he had what bout 5 seasons worth of walks...if he didn't walk over 2500 times he had a shit ton more homers..dude was intentionally walked almost 500 times which is almost a seasons worth of atbats right there...
So? All players would hit more homeruns if walks weren't a thing.
@@unkledoda420 that's great how many players walked 5 seasons worth of atbats!! How many players have a whole season worth of atbats just intentionally!! Think we're done here!!
Just like when Maris broke the single season record. All the old farts and little egg heads who couldn't hit a ball off a Tee don't like advancement.
Good take on bonds. Subscribed
Thank you! Appreciate the support!
Here's why he doesn't deserve it...
Barry Bonds hit a homerun every 12.1 at-bats in the first 14 years of his career... then hit a homerun every 5.5 at-bats for the LAST 8 years of his career (when removing base-on-balls from the at bat totals). And had better career numbers in all other categories during that time as well like highest batting average, slugging%, RBIs. Suspicious?!
It's laughable that BB still claims he never 'knowingly' used PEDs. Surely he must have seen massive gains in production numbers and not just his hat and shoe sizes.
Just look at his numbers... he had more home runs in his final season (28) with only 208 ABs (walks removed) then the first 6 seasons with exception of one where he got 33 HRs (but then he had 426 ABs).
If you look at the stats closely, you can tell something is not right and not right by a country mile.
He's not getting the nod because inducting him with such lofty fraudulent numbers propels him to being potentially the best hitter of all-time which he wouldn't have been otherwise. HOF worthy for sure but surely not GOAT worthy. If he were to go in on special circumstances, put him in excluding 2000 onward numbers. A price he pays to HOF peers for being the fraud he was. His ego lets him take us all for fools. Sorry Barry, the jig is up. Just my 2 cents.
Well said!!!
Miss the days of guys goosed out of their minds on steroids and cocaine.
Watching guys hit 500 foot home runs and act outlandish was the truly unmatched era of baseball
Think whatever you want and this is just my opinion... I think there's a chance we're not even talking about steroids in baseball if Bush didn't need a distraction for his illegal war in Iraq.
Stateof the Union address
That's when this became a national issue
Before that we all knew they were using steroids
And it didn't really matters
Bonds's 0 WS Giants > Posey's 3 WS Giants
Can you list the number of drug test that Bonds failed?
he failed the same one that ~80-something other guys failed. you know it's a problem when it's more than just a handful of players - more than three teams' worth!
Who cares about some steroid shit he is the freaking best
Seems like mun but haters in the comments
This has always been my argument for bonds he was an all time great before he did anything “wrong”.
a 30+ point lead in bWAR **before** steroid use isn't an accident
The media drove him to use steroids?
@@thebobapapi so why use steroids? He knew he was already hall of famer and took steroids knowing that if he was caught, he wouldn’t get in
because he probably had a good understanding that the rest of the league was filled with other PED users and if he didn't partake, he would be putting himself at a disadvantage. We're talking about guys' livelihoods, i.e. if they don't perform they won't get paid as much and as I said in the video we're talking about **multi-generational wealth.** Who wouldn't do anything they can to get that?
@@thebobapapi but the argument was he was a hall of famer without PEDs, so he would still be paid like one - in fact, he had already signed the biggest contract in baseball history in 1992 and then signed an extension that again made him the highest paid player in 1997. The idea was he did steroids after the 1998 season - multiple sources have said he did it for one reason - he was upset that McGuire and Sosa were getting all the attention and he knew he was a better baseball player. This isn’t the case of a average player doing PEDs the season before hitting free agency to get that one big payday!
Cheaters don’t belong in the hall.
So tired of "The Hall" being put up on a pedestal, like it's the Vatican or something. It's just a game. The league raked in 100's of millions of dollars of the backs of these "cheaters" then turned around and shook their fingers at them like the church lady. If the MLB was serious about all this they should offer refunds to ticket holders for every game these guys played in. Kind of like Apple had to reimburse it's customers for knowingly putting out a flawed product (The MLB knew), or Red Bull when it didn't actually give you wings. We paid to watch a fair game of baseball, but got something different. Nope, the MLB and the owners gladly took the money and made these guys into the villain. Cheaters may never win, but they shore can bring in record profits. The whole institution was corrupt.
@neilownz McGwire, Sosa , Palmero and everyone else with HOF numbers that got caught cheating aren’t In won’t ever be in, cheaters don’t belong in the Hall of Fame. Boom!
^^^that. The HoF isn't this sacred institution that we've always known it to be, especially because for the vast majority of time (i.e. pre-Mitchell Report) there wasn't a sense of responsibility. You think guys in the 40s/50s using amphetamines are the saints that we portray them to be?
@neilownz My point exactly, it was a symptom of the era and less so the selfish decision of one person. Sure, he decided to put drugs in his body, but prove to me without a shadow of a doubt that other players (including those who weren't named in the Mitchell report) weren't doing the exact same.
Then David Ortiz who is loved doesn’t belong in the HOF
Because he took steroids, Barry Bonds is disgraced, his "records" meaningless. A lot of people believe that. It's why Bonds is not in the Hall of Fame. (And this was his final year of eligibility.)
Bonds is not a hall of famer he cheated period. He did it to himself. He definitely was on pace for the hall of fame than he roided up. It was his choice he is a cheater and as such is not a hall of famer.
Barry Bonds belongs in the HOF, yes. Does all of his records post 1998 need to be nullified? Probably. Is he the legitimate all time home run hitter? No. Braves fan as I may be, nobody has hit more than 755 legitimate home runs in baseball. Barry Bonds remains a cheater.
So cheating saved baseball? Great excuse!😅
The '98 home run race - aided by performance enhancing drugs - saved baseball, yes. I was a toddler in '98 but it seems pretty apparent that baseball was headed in the wrong direction prior McGwire and Sosa exploring the third and fourth decks of major league stadiums. Home runs are fun, no?
Bonds is just another cheater. Salute honest players instead.
Still a cheater
Barry Bonds is a juice head , he's not the homerun. King he used steroids.
NO ONE who used roids should be in the HoF. Yeah there are some guys in the HoF who definitely used roids (David Ortiz) but that doesn't mean we throw out the standards we hold players to and just let all the roid users in. By that logic we should stop sending criminals to prison because sometimes we get things wrong and convict an innocent person. And how do we know for sure that Bonds wasn't roided up for his whole career? Not all roids add huge amounts of bulk so you can't only go by when his head swelled up to twice it's normal size.
Well, that right there is the thing - pre-Mitchell report, there was no way to know just exactly who was on the juice, so there's no way to safely assert that someone who was assumed to be clean was just that. So for guys who also played in that era, like Ortiz, why do we get to pick and choose who is subjected to differing standards?