Actually, Travis Willingham started out the original home game as a novice. He has said openly that all he wanted for his character was to fight and get loot. He slowly expanded his character and role play until in the second Champaign he actually had a love interest and some deep philosophical discussions. Start out at your own comfort level. Try being brave and do something that you might think is rash or crazy. Dispite the rule book, pretty much Anything can happen in D&D. Remember, it’s a game. 😉
He wasn't the only one. I think of the entire crew that played, only Matt, Liam, aannnnd Taliesin were experienced players (maybe Orion too, not sure on his history with it.). The rest hadn't done a PnP RPG ever before.
I think we share opinions on the Mercer Effect. I love Critical Role and how they play and it's pretty similar to how I prefer to play, and that makes sense because I'm also an actress and I love it. But like, I can enjoy and HAVE ENJOYED playing at tables that are vastly different.
This happened in a one shot i was a part of, though the players are part of longer campaign we all play together: DM was trying to implement more roleplay in the combat and for the first time ever he asked a player, how she wanted to kill a monster (also he has not seen any critical role content). She replied: "What? Why should i care? It's just dead" It made me somewhat sad, ngl..
Yup. I actually have very little interest in doing it when Im a player. As a DM, I engage in it when my players do, so I can give them something to play off of. Iow, I add the flavour for my players' benefit. For my own playing, I am most happy with resolving the numbers of each round and moving on immediately.
"There are no bad DMs or Players" Look, I get the sentiment but this is REALLY not true. There are certainly, some REALLY bad players AND DMs out there. This is probably a vocal minority, but as a long time DnD player, I think it's important that new players know this.
The Matt Mercer Effect was coined, afaik, in a post on r/DMAcademy like 6 years ago. The post is actually quite sad, because the DM really wants to provide the best game they can for their players, but their DMing style is not Matt's, which is basically what their players want and think should be happening. Matt responded directly to that post and it's worth reading.
Love your thoughts and explanations. We have a similar intro to how we fell in love with DnD and Critical Role. I got lucky and found a group that really loves RP (as well as exploration and combat). The DM was worried bc he doesn’t do voices and we were like “we don’t care, you’re amazing!” lol. The only thing I wish is i could find some people IRL that play DnD and prefer more RP with exploration and combat still there but not as big. I like how you pointed out that there’s no wrong way! I worried for a while I was not an ideal player bc i love RP and learning everyone’s stories. But then finding an online group with the same vibes showed me it’s okay to like that, and it’s okay if people prefer combat and such. Everyone has a different cup of tea. Great video!
To me this idea that you are fan of critical role your are not a "real" Dnd player is just Dumb. Look in any fandom there are gonna be people that get things way to far, but saying that because you feel inspire to play because of CR is like saying that you shouldnt get into the hobbie of coocking just because you starting watching a coocking show. Those are just people trying to gatekeeping this hobbie, and if you like Critical Role, Dimension 20, legends of avantris or any other actual play shows and want to star playing just do it, just understand than every table is diferent, every DM is unique and every campaing is only fun if yout feel confortable with the others player. Thanks for this video Izzie as a Critter i love it.
P. D: i recomend you to follow and watch in youtube the person first person you react "Supergeel Mike" he has awsome content on DnD and Critical Roles, he also has a lot of interestings and fun advices for new DMs and players
I remember seeing the original "Matt Mercer Effect" post and I took issue with the poster creating that term and seeming to put it all on Mercer; it should have been more accurately called the "Critical Role Effect," as I felt it was more an effect of the totality of that show. Then again I personally have never met anyone that wanted me to be like Matt Mercer/Critical Role, nor have I met any GMs that have had that issue. I feel that it's kind of on DMs to set the expectations for new players, when they first join your game, so that they understand what to expect at your table.
I feel like it should have been more appropriately called "the entitled online TTRPG player effect." I think certain people would have been just as entitled whether Critical Role existed or not, they were just using it as an excuse.
@@elbruces I agree, putting Matt's or CR's name on an excuse to be entitled and bad communication skills on expectation is such an annoying thing. Each group plays DnD differently and it's important to have a group of players and a DM with the same expectations and playstyle.
I also feel like the ' mercer effect' almost purely lives on reddit as a way to cultivate upvotes from people who hate on Critical Role. The stories are always almost exactly the same.
@charless Except "The Matt Mercer Effect" is 100% accurate. Matt Mercer's name being invoked is what led to the coining of the phrase. That one tik tok that parodied "Toxic Critical Role Superfans" was actually a pretty accurate portrayal of the so-called "fans" that led to the coining of the phrase. The phrase "The Matt Mercer Effect," literally, spawned from, "That's not how Matt Mercer would do it." They didn't say, "That not how Critical Role would do it." No, they said, specifically, "That not how Matt Mercer would do it." So while it may seem unfair to you to use Matt's name, just tell yourself it, actually, has nothing to do with Matt Mercer and everything to do with the fact the "superfans" kept invoking his name and everyone else got sick of it so it is, objectively, 100% accurate and appropriate. I sucks that, because those idiots invoked his name, Matt has to carry the burden. But it is what it is and Matt doesn't really let it bother him and, really, neither should you.
I don't know which podcast or interview it was but when matt was asked abt the mathew mercer effect he said that the expectation of performing goes both ways. That's how the show works, it only works if everyone is having fun at the table.
I'm a long time player. First game in the Summer of 1980. I was hooked. Our DM and 2 other friends around a dining room table entering the Caves of Chaos. It was awesome. I'm still good friends with 2 of them. CR reminds me of the group I was in around 1995 about 8 players and the Storyteller in a World of Darkness game. We didn't have the Dwarven Forge maps but since I paint miniatures we had those and we had moments of beautiful RP and strategic combat using our abilities in interesting ways to bypass and defeat our opponents sometimes with brute force but more often with brains, RP and lucky dice rolls. CR reminds me of my group back then. Matt didn't have the Dwarven Forge collection in the first games and his players are trained actors, there is a level of expertise in those portions of the game that we may not reach. I still play RPGs and I love it But when I met Travis recently I told him I am reminded of my group of friends who I played with ~20 years ago. They aren't that different from us at their core they are a group of nerdy ass friends playing RPGs together and that's what it's all about.
I know it was a lot of guys in comic book shops that had been meeting for years suddenly found themselves inundated with new players…who expected performances lol. It was a rough culture shock for everyone I think.
This video was awesome, it hit the nail right on the head. I feel that your opinions and the others you placed within your video, were spot on. I've played dnd since 1982 as a player and a DM, back when we had nothing more than the starting rules, played on graph paper and bought the dice singly. DnD was mostly a hack and slash, dungeon crawl game that we never talked about to anyone else outside of a very close friendship. During that time, role playing groups were even more rare to find, if ever. So where dnd started and where it is now, a very big differnce. At least you don't have to hide and/or be labeled as a satan worshiper for playing a game. It's now a leading ttrpg that people can have open discussions about. Show respect to other players, dms and all the different varieties of the types. Appreciate the history of dnd and the newness of where it is now. Thank you Mrs. Annalisa for a well created video. Yes.. I'm a Critter.
I am a gm(and player once in a blue moon), started in 86', and forward, when i can make time. My honest opinion on roleplaying groups, is that you keep a good atmosphere at the table, and make room for everyone, (all people are different, and that is a asset more than it is a minus), more times than not, the group will be a success, foster trust, and cooperation, and chances are that you will take more than just the experience from a session, but also a handful of new friends(if playing with people who does not know each other from the getgo). Also, zero politics, and RL issues should worm it's way into a game, a roleplaying game should be a escape from the idiocies of our everyday lives. Great vid, cudos! 😀
I started playing dnd and the campaign immediately fell through so i got into critical role to fill that void and i fell in love with it, years later i was able to get back to playing and i think the first tiktoks you showed put it best, my favorite aspect of dnd became the story, the characters, i love taking all the notes and connecting the dots, learning all the details and thankfully my group which was my theater friends loved the exact same thing, we have been playing for over a year and its amazing, on the pther hand i dm for a group who doesn’t care for that kind of thing, the campaign is way more lighthearted and they like the chaos and the jokes, and i learned to adapt tp that group. I have learned that there are different styles of play and i just need to have my storytelling focus on at ñeast one campaign any extra dnd is great but i think i would go nuts wothout the more “serious” campaign but thats just styles pf play. If there are any mistakes sorry english isn’t my first language 😅
I think it has to be said that before Critical Role the stereotype of D&D being a very male dominated hobby was pretty widespread and that had something to do with people's reaction to it as it's very different and frankly cooler than what many old school players are used to.
im a fan but also GM too!! i aim all the time to have a story as intense and engaging as this man and his friends have some up with over time. we are doing our best! lol much love gamer and fellow human (irl hehe)
I think fundamentally, you're right - this is an issue of mismatched expectations. However, the places where this comes up most often seems to be in communities like reddit or other forums in discussions about the hobby rather than in actual games. In these spaces Critical Role fans are blamed by some for redefining what roleplaying means. Many that come to the hobby via Critical Role or Dimension 20 conflate acting and roleplaying, and make assertions that leave out people that enjoy the more 3rd person style of narrating a character's behaviors rather than acting it out in 1st person. It manifests itself in ways like describing play-acting in character as roleplaying and labeling (deliberately or not) narration as "less than." Both are equally valid ways to play RPGs, and as you said, it's a matter of finding other players that match your style.
My first DnD game was with a group of 11 me included it was really nerve racking i only knew 2 of the players they were my best friends older sister and husband, and i got to play dnd without seeing critical role and only found out about CR from the people i played with, and i was 21 when i first played dnd and everyone was 1 to 15 years older than me and i was the youngest while everyone has played for awhile so i got a different perspective on dnd from a group that role played a little and helped me alot so i only got one point of view before watching CR, then after watching CR i wanted to get better at Emerson of the game and play a character more than just being my normal self and that was fun to watch CR and then go play with my group and see how well i could be better at playing/role playing.
I would like to add a point that lot of people seem to glance over and its the other players at the table. Empathetic listener or scene management can only take you so far, but you, even as a DM are only one of the players. Part of the reasons that Critical Role is so good is because EVERYONE at the table are a Empathetic listeners and EVERYONE at the table look to empower each-other and give each-other equal screen times, EVERYONE wants to tell a story. Matt doesn't really even have to manage his players, because they are all in tune with each-other. I have been DMing for a while now and honestly, the only people that are critical role fans that I've seen be problem players, are definitely not problem players because they're CR fans, but because of some other issue that has nothing to do with CR.
Completely agree on the reasons given why Mercer is in fact DM'ing well! What impresses me about Mercer is the empathetic listening and interaction he keeps going. Thats what I try to do as well. I am personally not at all interested in the acting aspect of Critical Role, because the acting does not get me interested. The acting out roles is just a nice little extra flavour that can be added but that I don't want to do nearly as much as CR does, because I find it makes the game too slow for my taste and I want the story to progress faster than, say, a movie or play.
I've been playing D&D for over 30 years. I have always enjoyed the balance between combat and role-playing. If the game is nothing but combat, just play a video game already. If the game is nothing but role-playing, read a book. The best games I've played or run are a balance of both. What shows like Critical Role have done is increase the popularity of role-playing. This is a part of the game that gets overlooked by beginning players and DMs because there are no rules or mechanics to guide you with how to interact with NPCs. Because of that, most inexperienced DMs tend to start out with a lot of combat in their games. There is nothing wrong with running a game that is combat heavy. You just need to have downtime for the players to explore their character's personality. Combat is the mechanical part of the game. Without the down time, you're not really playing a role-playing game. Instead, you are just playing a board game. Which is fine if that is what you want. But don't blame those of us who want to role-play as well. I would also point out that Critical Role got my wife and daughter interested in playing D&D with me. Until they saw the show, they didn't know that role-playing was really part of the game. They thought it was just about pretending to fight monsters. That show and the "Mercer" effect allowed me to run D&D for my entire family.
I respect Matt and his offerings to the TTRPG community in general, though I don't think I have ever watched a live stream of CR, just a couple clips. Not because I hate them or w/e, its mostly because I'd rather work in my own style and expectations for what a session of a RPG should look like and feel like. As a GM mainly, I want inspiration from books, history and my own personal experiences. I think because his game is a live play he needs it to be more narrative/in character roleplay heavy, in my games I don't care so much about their backstory and their over arching goals as much as them roleplaying their character in the moment, enjoying the emergent gameplay moments more than anything else.
I don't think it has to do with it being a live show, but more with the kind of game they like. There are plenty of live shows with little roleplay (the Glass Canon Podcast's Pathfinder campaigns are a good example I think). I think it has a lot to do with the system played as well. I've run plenty of campaigns using non-DD systems with little / no combat.
Glad to see the Matt Mercer effect getting called out as over blown. Keep up the grand work! But I will say this about CR fans: I've never seen bad or entitled behavior from them at the tables I've run, but holy smokes I never want to interact with them online. Reddit, socials media, and the comment section of episodes is... I find it off-putting to see the stuff that rises to the top.
Welcome to the Vocal Minority. Those with the "loudest voices" will always rise to the top when they are able to be cloaked in anonymity, but rest assured, they ARE the minority.
@@ForeverDegenerateOh I know out in the real world it's not an issue, but it is insane seeing comments like those rise to the top online. I do a lot of my hobby interactions over the internet, and CR fans I'm very cautious around.
The first time I started hearing the phrase "The Mercer Effect" was pretty early on in campaign 2 (my personal fave) and it was mostly in forums where I would see it. Now, I can't say what actual validity was behind the posts, but they really were complaining about new players coming in and that would actually say things like, "That's not how Matt would have ruled that." Or, "Matt would have let HIS players do that!" These days, I don't really hear that so much. My hypothesis is that the phrase "The Mercer Effect" has floated around so much, that people are now more aware of what to look for, and what is more realistic to expect when going to a new table. (And, as a side, having been a fan for so long, I have found plenty of annoying CR fans, but that just comes from having such a large fan base.)
Just got recommended this video and I’m so glad I did! I’m commenting partway through because your opening question about “do real ttrpg-ers hate CR” made me crack up because I live in LA, literally just went to a public game event with multiple DMs who are also obviously a bunch of nerdy ass voice actors (and I’m one of them) and half of us were wearing/using Critical Role merch. They’re kind of hometown heroes for nerds around here. Obviously it’s a niche experience, but I think it says something that ttrpg-ers in their own town think they’re awesome.
Obviously I’m not at other people’s tables so I’ll never know for sure, but a lot of the complaints online of the Matt Mercer effect come across to me as experienced players and DMs being impatient with new players. Like instead of taking lessons we can all learn from Matt Mercer like open mindedness and kindness, people get frustrated and angry with newbies for drawing on the limited knowledge they have.
fantastic video, keep up the amazing content ^_^. mercer is my spirit animal lol. im a good dm based off all my past players. I can't voice for anything lol. I can barely act if you would even call it that. However, i would never believe there is a mercer effect. But i know there is people who have their own thoughts.
As a critter myself and a DM, I see why the stigmata exists. There are those who make the pinnacle of play out to be the norm, and if you don't meet that, hell hath no fury like a whiny incel who doesn't understand you aren't Matt Mercer. But, that's the devil in the details: the stereotyping. The vast majority of people aren't like that. It's that one subset of people (IE the obnoxious incels that expect the pinnacle quality campaign that is on the level of a multi-million dollar business's production with voice actors, producers and possibly writers at the helm) that creates a stereotype for everyone else. Blaming a whole group of people, for the actions of a few: is that not just as problematic? Now, don't get me wrong, these people exist, but simultaneously, we should shun the problem players, not people who are tangentially related to said problem players. The "All critters are bad and toxic.' Logic is up there with 'All Warhammer Fans are Fascists." In terms of just sheer overreach and stereotype that it's not even a valid argument. It's a take spawned by RPG horror stories on reddit and perpetuated by echo-chambers therein.
SOme have commented it should be the 'Critical Role' effect, and I feel this is more accurate; Matts good, but no one person makes what happens in those games; People are seeing years of friendships and banter culminating in a natural ability to play off each others quirks and moods... ON TOP of being part of storytelling industry FOR a LIVING. The proper response to 'Be more Matt' would be 'Be a better main character/willing to sac a scene for support/anticipate where the scene is heading'.. Yikes. Consider how close these games come to what theyve trained to do for a living; Anytime Thor is animated, Its Travis voice, so 'BANG' Grog is is a muscle he already HAD, he just gets to do it for fun and whimsy now.
Number of players who demand Mercer level production: 0 Number of insecure dms who complain about players and hate on our pure-hearted Mercer: infinite
I think it’s really irresponsible to say that the Matt Mercer effect isn’t as popular as people think it is because “I’ve never heard anyone complain about it”. That’s an Anecdotal Fallacy, and that’s the same fallacy that causes the “I’ve only had positive experiences with ___, so I can’t believer that he was an abuser” problem. My personal experience with problematic Critical Role fans has been very similar to some people’s Taylor Swift experience: if you aren’t a fan, that’s not acceptable; they’ll make you a fan. I personally don’t love watching Critical Role because I prefer the combat side of things in DnD, and they don’t do enough of that for me. Nonetheless, I’ve been harassed about how I should give it another shot. That, and I’ve had fans really shove it in my face constantly bringing up when a situation in-game reminds them of a scene from the show. And finally, I think that last TikTok does a great job of showing it, but I think the Matt Mercer Effect also sometimes makes fans feel like they can behave similar to the cast of the show. Shouting things out, having side conversations, and other similar behavior seems very normal there, but it’s not at all at my table. I have anxiety, so it actually makes things really difficult for me when the table gets like that. Of course, I know not all Critical Role fans are like this, and I hope you read my comment open mindedly enough to understand another person’s perspective.
Critical Role is basically an Audio Drama, same as Acquisitions Incorporated! I watched them live with episode 11 of season 1, and as they got more popular the more salt that was in the chat!
DMs and the other players need to state they are or aren't critical role standard of gameplay experience. Then players with critical role expectations will stay away and keep to players and DMs who can provide the critical role experience
As a newcomer to DnD, I see a lot of elitist/purist in this community so I'm not surprised that petty people are being petty. You don't own the DnD experience, let other experience it their own way.
I get why people believe in the Matt Mercer effect, but there are people like me who have literally been playing games in that style almost longer than Matt's been alive. I picked up D&D with Blue Box and even back then I was adding role play and non-combat elements in to make it less of a minatures wargame. Also, just a side note, but CR has been almost entirely pre-recorded since the pandemic started. Since they decided to pre-record then for various reasons they've pretty much just carried that over. Usually these days the only not pre-recorded things are stuff they do for 1 shots, or special sponsored kind of spots, or the very rare everything is content spot. If I recall, Matt is nearing his 40s, or into his early 40s now, so he's probably 'been doing this' for closer to 30 years. The issue with 'other role playing games' is that D&D is probably recognized by 85% of people who are at the extreme fringe of gaming. Whereas for pretty much any other gaming system you have to be a 'lot deeper' into the hobby to be familiar with the game. So, if a person is brought into the hobby, there's an extremely high chance they will be introduced to D&D first. Maybe in the coming years, especially as soon as maybe 5 years from now, this might not be the case. But while it can be argued World of Darkness and other role play heavy games have been out for a long time, it's only really 'now' that non-D&D games are really getting any kind of exposure. (Especially with brand new systems just now coming out, or on the verge of coming out.) Yeah the person at the end is annoying, but I actually find people who commonly use real world reference/comparison on anything to be annoying. Let the description of the thing be the thing, you don't need to find a comparison to a movie or book character / place / thing. At least you shouldn't. I guess I could see how people need a reference, but still, kind of a pet peeve for me I guess. Finding a good group can be tough. I tell people it's like sexytimes. There's the perfect match, which is probably only a couple of times in a lifetime chance, the good match, where people get along and have fun, and then lots and lots of ways things don't match. I think people just don't realize that happens with pen and paper groups and expect it to work every time.
Bit off-topic. If you are interested in Call of Cthulu at some point, I encourage you to watch Chaotic Neutral's "The Yellow Sign of the Four", NRB/CHaotic Neutral had played Call of Cthulu before a couple times, and they very good at it, but this one in particular is in my opinion they're best one, the level of acting and improvising, and the payoff at the end, everything is just perfect, it really shows what can be done in CoC. I'll leave the link in case you're interested: th-cam.com/video/b95xDSL9nJk/w-d-xo.html
So I am a wargamer, as is my wife. So when we roleplay it's 50% combat, 35% exploration, and 15% social interactions. I also don't play the current addition. I use Shadowdark as a base, and have added a bunch of BECMI D&D back into it. Lastly I've added Diablo 2 AD&D 2nd edition item randomizer into the game, best choice I've ever made. As such I've made my favorite game system through using those systems. This obviously would be a game many would not enjoy especially those that are critical role fans as they tend to enjoy more social interactions. I find a lot of talky talky to be boring as many times players don't know how to push the game forward. But it isn't like I haven't had entire sessions that have been talky talky that has worked, was good and, enjoyable. But that is few and far between.
@@ForeverDegenerate Yeah TSR/Wizards made 2 diablo tie in books for D&D. One for 2nd edition, one for 3rd. The 2nd ed book have a fantastic item randomizer in it. you can find it floating online if you search D&D Diablo the awakening pdf. A free somewhere in the search could be useful as well, however I can not condone piracy. :)
@@ForeverDegenerate Well it seems like my other comment was deleted. So the book is called Diablo II - The Awakening. It is actually pretty easy to convert to whatever d20 system you are using.
I dont like the name, it should be called the critical role effect, because the cast is responsible as much as Matt. While I found other GM that I could follow, I never found a cast that are so badass at acting and reading the atmosphere and how they play. What draw me to CR was Nott the Brave, Jester and Caleb. Not Matt and his awesome npc or story telling, but just how badass and incredibly deep those 3 characters interaction were. Off course later on I learn to like each members for what they bring to the table but for me those 3 were incredible.
I don't like the phrase "Matt Mercer Effect"; I just believe it is fundamental misalignment of expectations. And that's generally fine, as it's expected in society to find those who align with you to pursue various goals. That said, the issue I have with some of the Critical Role fanbase is that some feel that they must come to the defense of Critical Role for every small issue. Let's be very clear here, how Matt runs his table is completely up to him and he holds no fault; he's hitting the vibe his players enjoy. However, when you move that content out of the private home and place it on the internet for the masses... it's going to foment some criticism. Rulings, mechanics, choices.. it's all under the umbrella of public criticism. And not all criticism is negative; constructive criticism exists as well. However, I think some of the fan base doesn't realize that they aren't responsible for defending Critical Role from all criticism. You can see a conversation occur, decide it's not one you need to get involved with or don't agree with, and simply move on. But some will step forward and begin arguments within the conversation in very toxic and unhealthy para-social ways. As if saying "man, Matt is really stepping forward a lot to ensure the PCs don't die as a consequence of their actions" is some sort of physical attack on him or the game. When it's just not; it's a viable criticism of a product marketed to the masses. It's a conversation and nothing more. All that said, I view the majority of Critical Role fans as brothers and sisters in a hobby that I love and have enjoyed for decades. Diverse people who fill diverse tables and keep the hobby going. The tree shouldn't be destroyed by the few bad apples. Even if those apples tend to be some of the loudest people out there.
While I watch the entirety of the video, I can say why CR fans get a bad rap at least in my eyes. It has got nothing to do with the Matthew Mercer Effect. It has to do with "toxic positivity". Constructive criticism is not welcome there. I criticize everything I like and dislike. Then I realized that what I didn't like in CR's community, is the people in it. As time goes by, those people (the fans) are being, more and more, people that more and more people seem to dislike, even outside of the scope of the game or the show. I already dissociate myself from those of this bunch who are the most… eccentric, to stay polite, have been for years, but now, the entire fanbase is "eccentric", in that _bad_ sense of the word. The Mercer Effect, I've never seen it, but I was playing before I started watching CR. Yes, it did put in perspective which of my DMs were good DMs and which weren't as much ; there is such a thing as a bad DM, but that is going to be a very personal judgment to make. Personally it has been people I end up not really getting along with and that was festering under everything else. But that's not really been an issue for me.
@@tasmanianbadger _« Toxic positivity? Criticism is not welcome? You criticise everything? Yeah… I think ‘self awareness’ might need some ASI, dude. »_ Perfect example of what I'm talking about. Remove the "constructive" from "constructive criticism", then directly go to personal attacks, feel free. But that's exactly what I mean, exactly the type of behavior I've been seeing from CR fans, at least online, thank you for proving my point. And yes, "toxic positivity" is a thing. Here, let me help you out : en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toxic_positivity .
@@lonewaer… so… you didn’t like getting some constructive criticism? Really?!?! What’s wrong with you? And you get all emotional? Gee… you must have issues. You weren’t really addressing the youtube clip. You were announcing to all of us that you find the fans of CR unworthy of your approval. They are cheerful or happy or something which you find toxic and need to shun. Dude… nobody cares. You might as well have said ‘I like chocolate mint!’ You could have - alternatively - contributed to the topic by discussing the homogenising (look it up) effect of Critical Role on tabletop roleplaying. You could have launched a discussion about how the actual problematic aspect of Matt Mercer, Aabriyah Iyengar, Brennan Lee Mulligan, etc… is that they are intimidatingly good DMs. In the old days, the various gaming companies tried to encourage people to try their hand at being DMs. Instead, you waste our time ranting and bleating about how you criticise what you like and what you don’t like… just grow up, would you please.
@@tasmanianbadger Ok gloves off. _« … so… you didn’t like getting some constructive criticism? Really?!?! What’s wrong with you? And you get all emotional? Gee… you must have issues. »_ That wasn't a constructive criticism though that was a personal attack, which you're still going for, but nice try. Thank you again for keeping proving my point. Now you're also being condescending, insinuating that I might need to look up "homogenizing". Without looking it up, can you explain to me why it means what it means ? The etymology ? I can. My first language is half-latin half-greek and has later on been coated with a nice layer of germanic. Cheesus Crust, I graduated high school more than 20 years ago, that's high school knowledge my dude. Do understand that most people in the world get out of more efficient places than what American schools are. See I can be condescending too. It's really not that difficult, but I only do it when provoked. If you were truly more grown up than you claim I am (hence why I'd need to grow up in your view), you'd have approached this exchange with a little bit more foresight (= "seeing forward" just so you know ; see I did it again) than to just revert to the behavior of an ideologue that happens to prove my point. You're walking into traps that weren't even traps. The way you're approaching this, is exactly what's toxic : "it's negative because I don't like it so it must be silenced and I will make personal attacks because I have nothing else". Overall, you're not making a very good case for yourself. I did contribute to the topic, you just don't like what I said about it. The Mercer Effect has been overblown since years ago, that is nothing new, but then that means that it isn't why the CR fan base gets a bad rap, it _cannot_ be the Mercer Effect. That was my second sentence. After that I explained why I thought the fan base got a bad rap, that is a better explanation. They're not happy, they're trying to power through their misery with happiness, that's the toxic positivity part. But you don't understand this because you don't think toxic positivity is real. I said what I said, you don't like it, you can't refute it (or else you would have done it), and you jumped directly to personal attacks, so I'm not discussing it further with you. You haven't demonstrated anything to me that I didn't know, nor that you would have had anything of substance to contribute yourself. Where is your own contribution by the way ? I don't see a comment of yours that isn't a response to mine. Or maybe you don't actually have anything of substance to add… hmm… _« Instead, you waste our time ranting and bleating about how you criticise what you like and what you don’t like… »_ No I made a reasonably small paragraph about it, now I'm wasting my time, yes, but trying to play chess with a pigeon. You're the pigeon.
@@lonewaer okay, junior… well… I am a retired academic. In Australia. My career spanned government, ngo’s, management of small business and academic researcher. If you were blessed with … well… the attributes you claim, you would include some maturity. My first response to you, suggested that the tone of your comment was a bit too focused on dumping on others. A mature reply would have been ‘Oh. I see your point. Failed to convey my point clearly.’ Or, possibly, ‘Hang on. I don’t think I was that negative…’ Did you respond that way? No. You had a tantrum. One you now seem keen to continue. I urged you to grow up because my comment was rather mild to result in the level of your melt down. Even your language is childish ‘gloves off’. Where are you? A playground? Even now, you seem fixated on ‘showing me’… dude… I don’t care. You can be as belligerent as you like, as childish and petulant as you wish… I am still not going to care. You made a crappy bunch of observations that were more about you than the subject. Deal with it. Accept that a comment can be made about the tenor of your comments without it being an attack. Your feelings are hurt and you are angry… so something I’m saying is registering. I genuinely haven’t gone after you. If I had, you’d be even more upset… and I still would not have cared about your silly, nonsense argument. Take a breather. Go for a walk. Calm down.
"DM's are toxic and 'threatened' by Matt Mercer" "DM's are running subpar games and its their fault that the games suck- not Matt Mercer- they should learn from what he does." "DM's need to allow players to do whatever they want to add to the story, like Critical Role, and stop trying to get their story out in everyone's face." "DM's need to stop whining about Matt Mercer and try harder to do what he does and listen to us, the players, we know what we like(critical role) and we will drop your game to go find one that lets us play clones of the characters they play on their show" By the way, statements similar to these- ARE the Matt Mercer Effect.
I don't think listening to your players is the MM effect. It is just being a decent human being. I mostly DM and I've never met anyone that held me to Critical Role standards. I have however played with a GM that vetoed everything we proposed and railroaded hard. Granted, it was his first game, but it was also the last game for most of the players.
The Big Bang Theory especially is very bad in its portrayal of D&D specifically and nerd/geek culture in general. They look at is as something to be laughed at or looked down upon, and deride instead of celebrate and uplift the hobby imo. I really hate the show when initially I used to find it funny. Personally I always hated CR and always thought it was overrated but I give Mercer and CR credit for getting more people in the hobby, even though 5e is not my favorite version of the game.
The real Matt Mercer effect is the way Mercer gets overpraised for creating the "Story first" style of Games Mastering, even though it existed long before he ever picked up a d20.
Actually, Travis Willingham started out the original home game as a novice. He has said openly that all he wanted for his character was to fight and get loot. He slowly expanded his character and role play until in the second Champaign he actually had a love interest and some deep philosophical discussions. Start out at your own comfort level. Try being brave and do something that you might think is rash or crazy. Dispite the rule book, pretty much Anything can happen in D&D. Remember, it’s a game. 😉
The difference between Grog and Fjord is incredible
He wasn't the only one. I think of the entire crew that played, only Matt, Liam, aannnnd Taliesin were experienced players (maybe Orion too, not sure on his history with it.). The rest hadn't done a PnP RPG ever before.
I think we share opinions on the Mercer Effect. I love Critical Role and how they play and it's pretty similar to how I prefer to play, and that makes sense because I'm also an actress and I love it. But like, I can enjoy and HAVE ENJOYED playing at tables that are vastly different.
This happened in a one shot i was a part of, though the players are part of longer campaign we all play together:
DM was trying to implement more roleplay in the combat and for the first time ever he asked a player, how she wanted to kill a monster (also he has not seen any critical role content).
She replied: "What? Why should i care? It's just dead"
It made me somewhat sad, ngl..
thats part of the point though. not every player cares about this.
Yup. I actually have very little interest in doing it when Im a player. As a DM, I engage in it when my players do, so I can give them something to play off of. Iow, I add the flavour for my players' benefit. For my own playing, I am most happy with resolving the numbers of each round and moving on immediately.
"There are no bad DMs or Players" Look, I get the sentiment but this is REALLY not true. There are certainly, some REALLY bad players AND DMs out there. This is probably a vocal minority, but as a long time DnD player, I think it's important that new players know this.
The Matt Mercer Effect was coined, afaik, in a post on r/DMAcademy like 6 years ago. The post is actually quite sad, because the DM really wants to provide the best game they can for their players, but their DMing style is not Matt's, which is basically what their players want and think should be happening. Matt responded directly to that post and it's worth reading.
Love your thoughts and explanations. We have a similar intro to how we fell in love with DnD and Critical Role. I got lucky and found a group that really loves RP (as well as exploration and combat). The DM was worried bc he doesn’t do voices and we were like “we don’t care, you’re amazing!” lol.
The only thing I wish is i could find some people IRL that play DnD and prefer more RP with exploration and combat still there but not as big.
I like how you pointed out that there’s no wrong way! I worried for a while I was not an ideal player bc i love RP and learning everyone’s stories. But then finding an online group with the same vibes showed me it’s okay to like that, and it’s okay if people prefer combat and such. Everyone has a different cup of tea. Great video!
To me this idea that you are fan of critical role your are not a "real" Dnd player is just Dumb. Look in any fandom there are gonna be people that get things way to far, but saying that because you feel inspire to play because of CR is like saying that you shouldnt get into the hobbie of coocking just because you starting watching a coocking show.
Those are just people trying to gatekeeping this hobbie, and if you like Critical Role, Dimension 20, legends of avantris or any other actual play shows and want to star playing just do it, just understand than every table is diferent, every DM is unique and every campaing is only fun if yout feel confortable with the others player. Thanks for this video Izzie as a Critter i love it.
P. D: i recomend you to follow and watch in youtube the person first person you react "Supergeel Mike" he has awsome content on DnD and Critical Roles, he also has a lot of interestings and fun advices for new DMs and players
I second the recommendation to Mike's channel ^^
I remember seeing the original "Matt Mercer Effect" post and I took issue with the poster creating that term and seeming to put it all on Mercer; it should have been more accurately called the "Critical Role Effect," as I felt it was more an effect of the totality of that show. Then again I personally have never met anyone that wanted me to be like Matt Mercer/Critical Role, nor have I met any GMs that have had that issue. I feel that it's kind of on DMs to set the expectations for new players, when they first join your game, so that they understand what to expect at your table.
I feel like it should have been more appropriately called "the entitled online TTRPG player effect." I think certain people would have been just as entitled whether Critical Role existed or not, they were just using it as an excuse.
@@elbruces I agree, putting Matt's or CR's name on an excuse to be entitled and bad communication skills on expectation is such an annoying thing. Each group plays DnD differently and it's important to have a group of players and a DM with the same expectations and playstyle.
I also feel like the ' mercer effect' almost purely lives on reddit as a way to cultivate upvotes from people who hate on Critical Role. The stories are always almost exactly the same.
@charless
Except "The Matt Mercer Effect" is 100% accurate. Matt Mercer's name being invoked is what led to the coining of the phrase. That one tik tok that parodied "Toxic Critical Role Superfans" was actually a pretty accurate portrayal of the so-called "fans" that led to the coining of the phrase. The phrase "The Matt Mercer Effect," literally, spawned from, "That's not how Matt Mercer would do it." They didn't say, "That not how Critical Role would do it." No, they said, specifically, "That not how Matt Mercer would do it." So while it may seem unfair to you to use Matt's name, just tell yourself it, actually, has nothing to do with Matt Mercer and everything to do with the fact the "superfans" kept invoking his name and everyone else got sick of it so it is, objectively, 100% accurate and appropriate. I sucks that, because those idiots invoked his name, Matt has to carry the burden. But it is what it is and Matt doesn't really let it bother him and, really, neither should you.
Im sure its happened, but ive seen more insecure dms complaining than actual players complaining at 50:1@@ForeverDegenerate
I don't know which podcast or interview it was but when matt was asked abt the mathew mercer effect he said that the expectation of performing goes both ways. That's how the show works, it only works if everyone is having fun at the table.
I'm a long time player. First game in the Summer of 1980. I was hooked. Our DM and 2 other friends around a dining room table entering the Caves of Chaos. It was awesome. I'm still good friends with 2 of them. CR reminds me of the group I was in around 1995 about 8 players and the Storyteller in a World of Darkness game. We didn't have the Dwarven Forge maps but since I paint miniatures we had those and we had moments of beautiful RP and strategic combat using our abilities in interesting ways to bypass and defeat our opponents sometimes with brute force but more often with brains, RP and lucky dice rolls. CR reminds me of my group back then. Matt didn't have the Dwarven Forge collection in the first games and his players are trained actors, there is a level of expertise in those portions of the game that we may not reach. I still play RPGs and I love it But when I met Travis recently I told him I am reminded of my group of friends who I played with ~20 years ago. They aren't that different from us at their core they are a group of nerdy ass friends playing RPGs together and that's what it's all about.
Hell yeah, great to see other that started dnd in the 80's. Much respect.
@@IBEMEUBEU same here. i started in December of 1979, but same thing.
I know it was a lot of guys in comic book shops that had been meeting for years suddenly found themselves inundated with new players…who expected performances lol. It was a rough culture shock for everyone I think.
This video was awesome, it hit the nail right on the head. I feel that your opinions and the others you placed within your video, were spot on. I've played dnd since 1982 as a player and a DM, back when we had nothing more than the starting rules, played on graph paper and bought the dice singly. DnD was mostly a hack and slash, dungeon crawl game that we never talked about to anyone else outside of a very close friendship. During that time, role playing groups were even more rare to find, if ever. So where dnd started and where it is now, a very big differnce. At least you don't have to hide and/or be labeled as a satan worshiper for playing a game. It's now a leading ttrpg that people can have open discussions about. Show respect to other players, dms and all the different varieties of the types. Appreciate the history of dnd and the newness of where it is now. Thank you Mrs. Annalisa for a well created video. Yes.. I'm a Critter.
I am a gm(and player once in a blue moon), started in 86', and forward, when i can make time. My honest opinion on roleplaying groups, is that you keep a good atmosphere at the table, and make room for everyone, (all people are different, and that is a asset more than it is a minus), more times than not, the group will be a success, foster trust, and cooperation, and chances are that you will take more than just the experience from a session, but also a handful of new friends(if playing with people who does not know each other from the getgo). Also, zero politics, and RL issues should worm it's way into a game, a roleplaying game should be a escape from the idiocies of our everyday lives.
Great vid, cudos! 😀
Mike has an amazing channel 🎉
So awesome for u to b watching his stuff ❤
I started playing dnd and the campaign immediately fell through so i got into critical role to fill that void and i fell in love with it, years later i was able to get back to playing and i think the first tiktoks you showed put it best, my favorite aspect of dnd became the story, the characters, i love taking all the notes and connecting the dots, learning all the details and thankfully my group which was my theater friends loved the exact same thing, we have been playing for over a year and its amazing, on the pther hand i dm for a group who doesn’t care for that kind of thing, the campaign is way more lighthearted and they like the chaos and the jokes, and i learned to adapt tp that group. I have learned that there are different styles of play and i just need to have my storytelling focus on at ñeast one campaign any extra dnd is great but i think i would go nuts wothout the more “serious” campaign but thats just styles pf play.
If there are any mistakes sorry english isn’t my first language 😅
I think it has to be said that before Critical Role the stereotype of D&D being a very male dominated hobby was pretty widespread and that had something to do with people's reaction to it as it's very different and frankly cooler than what many old school players are used to.
im a fan but also GM too!! i aim all the time to have a story as intense and engaging as this man and his friends have some up with over time. we are doing our best! lol much love gamer and fellow human (irl hehe)
I think fundamentally, you're right - this is an issue of mismatched expectations. However, the places where this comes up most often seems to be in communities like reddit or other forums in discussions about the hobby rather than in actual games. In these spaces Critical Role fans are blamed by some for redefining what roleplaying means. Many that come to the hobby via Critical Role or Dimension 20 conflate acting and roleplaying, and make assertions that leave out people that enjoy the more 3rd person style of narrating a character's behaviors rather than acting it out in 1st person. It manifests itself in ways like describing play-acting in character as roleplaying and labeling (deliberately or not) narration as "less than." Both are equally valid ways to play RPGs, and as you said, it's a matter of finding other players that match your style.
My first DnD game was with a group of 11 me included it was really nerve racking i only knew 2 of the players they were my best friends older sister and husband, and i got to play dnd without seeing critical role and only found out about CR from the people i played with, and i was 21 when i first played dnd and everyone was 1 to 15 years older than me and i was the youngest while everyone has played for awhile so i got a different perspective on dnd from a group that role played a little and helped me alot so i only got one point of view before watching CR, then after watching CR i wanted to get better at Emerson of the game and play a character more than just being my normal self and that was fun to watch CR and then go play with my group and see how well i could be better at playing/role playing.
That first content creator you looked at has a TH-cam channel called SuperGeekMike. He is great, I highly recommend his channel.
He's a bit too much of a simp for CR for my taste, but he does have good content from time to time
@@Nexusofgeek tbf he doesn't try to hide it.
I would like to add a point that lot of people seem to glance over and its the other players at the table. Empathetic listener or scene management can only take you so far, but you, even as a DM are only one of the players. Part of the reasons that Critical Role is so good is because EVERYONE at the table are a Empathetic listeners and EVERYONE at the table look to empower each-other and give each-other equal screen times, EVERYONE wants to tell a story. Matt doesn't really even have to manage his players, because they are all in tune with each-other. I have been DMing for a while now and honestly, the only people that are critical role fans that I've seen be problem players, are definitely not problem players because they're CR fans, but because of some other issue that has nothing to do with CR.
Completely agree on the reasons given why Mercer is in fact DM'ing well! What impresses me about Mercer is the empathetic listening and interaction he keeps going. Thats what I try to do as well.
I am personally not at all interested in the acting aspect of Critical Role, because the acting does not get me interested. The acting out roles is just a nice little extra flavour that can be added but that I don't want to do nearly as much as CR does, because I find it makes the game too slow for my taste and I want the story to progress faster than, say, a movie or play.
I've been playing D&D for over 30 years. I have always enjoyed the balance between combat and role-playing. If the game is nothing but combat, just play a video game already. If the game is nothing but role-playing, read a book. The best games I've played or run are a balance of both. What shows like Critical Role have done is increase the popularity of role-playing. This is a part of the game that gets overlooked by beginning players and DMs because there are no rules or mechanics to guide you with how to interact with NPCs. Because of that, most inexperienced DMs tend to start out with a lot of combat in their games. There is nothing wrong with running a game that is combat heavy. You just need to have downtime for the players to explore their character's personality. Combat is the mechanical part of the game. Without the down time, you're not really playing a role-playing game. Instead, you are just playing a board game. Which is fine if that is what you want. But don't blame those of us who want to role-play as well. I would also point out that Critical Role got my wife and daughter interested in playing D&D with me. Until they saw the show, they didn't know that role-playing was really part of the game. They thought it was just about pretending to fight monsters. That show and the "Mercer" effect allowed me to run D&D for my entire family.
I respect Matt and his offerings to the TTRPG community in general, though I don't think I have ever watched a live stream of CR, just a couple clips.
Not because I hate them or w/e, its mostly because I'd rather work in my own style and expectations for what a session of a RPG should look like and feel like.
As a GM mainly, I want inspiration from books, history and my own personal experiences. I think because his game is a live play he needs it to be more narrative/in character roleplay heavy, in my games I don't care so much about their backstory and their over arching goals as much as them roleplaying their character in the moment, enjoying the emergent gameplay moments more than anything else.
I don't think it has to do with it being a live show, but more with the kind of game they like.
There are plenty of live shows with little roleplay (the Glass Canon Podcast's Pathfinder campaigns are a good example I think).
I think it has a lot to do with the system played as well. I've run plenty of campaigns using non-DD systems with little / no combat.
Glad to see the Matt Mercer effect getting called out as over blown. Keep up the grand work!
But I will say this about CR fans: I've never seen bad or entitled behavior from them at the tables I've run, but holy smokes I never want to interact with them online. Reddit, socials media, and the comment section of episodes is... I find it off-putting to see the stuff that rises to the top.
Weirdly some of those people don't actually play. But yeah, I've seen some pretty extreme views there.
Welcome to the Vocal Minority. Those with the "loudest voices" will always rise to the top when they are able to be cloaked in anonymity, but rest assured, they ARE the minority.
@@ForeverDegenerateOh I know out in the real world it's not an issue, but it is insane seeing comments like those rise to the top online.
I do a lot of my hobby interactions over the internet, and CR fans I'm very cautious around.
The first time I started hearing the phrase "The Mercer Effect" was pretty early on in campaign 2 (my personal fave) and it was mostly in forums where I would see it. Now, I can't say what actual validity was behind the posts, but they really were complaining about new players coming in and that would actually say things like, "That's not how Matt would have ruled that." Or, "Matt would have let HIS players do that!"
These days, I don't really hear that so much. My hypothesis is that the phrase "The Mercer Effect" has floated around so much, that people are now more aware of what to look for, and what is more realistic to expect when going to a new table. (And, as a side, having been a fan for so long, I have found plenty of annoying CR fans, but that just comes from having such a large fan base.)
Just got recommended this video and I’m so glad I did! I’m commenting partway through because your opening question about “do real ttrpg-ers hate CR” made me crack up because I live in LA, literally just went to a public game event with multiple DMs who are also obviously a bunch of nerdy ass voice actors (and I’m one of them) and half of us were wearing/using Critical Role merch. They’re kind of hometown heroes for nerds around here. Obviously it’s a niche experience, but I think it says something that ttrpg-ers in their own town think they’re awesome.
Obviously I’m not at other people’s tables so I’ll never know for sure, but a lot of the complaints online of the Matt Mercer effect come across to me as experienced players and DMs being impatient with new players. Like instead of taking lessons we can all learn from Matt Mercer like open mindedness and kindness, people get frustrated and angry with newbies for drawing on the limited knowledge they have.
I've been a fan since the mid season 1, I never would've expected people to want the role play to be beyond larping, with voices and all
fantastic video, keep up the amazing content ^_^. mercer is my spirit animal lol. im a good dm based off all my past players. I can't voice for anything lol. I can barely act if you would even call it that. However, i would never believe there is a mercer effect. But i know there is people who have their own thoughts.
As a critter myself and a DM, I see why the stigmata exists. There are those who make the pinnacle of play out to be the norm, and if you don't meet that, hell hath no fury like a whiny incel who doesn't understand you aren't Matt Mercer.
But, that's the devil in the details: the stereotyping. The vast majority of people aren't like that. It's that one subset of people (IE the obnoxious incels that expect the pinnacle quality campaign that is on the level of a multi-million dollar business's production with voice actors, producers and possibly writers at the helm) that creates a stereotype for everyone else. Blaming a whole group of people, for the actions of a few: is that not just as problematic?
Now, don't get me wrong, these people exist, but simultaneously, we should shun the problem players, not people who are tangentially related to said problem players. The "All critters are bad and toxic.' Logic is up there with 'All Warhammer Fans are Fascists." In terms of just sheer overreach and stereotype that it's not even a valid argument.
It's a take spawned by RPG horror stories on reddit and perpetuated by echo-chambers therein.
SOme have commented it should be the 'Critical Role' effect, and I feel this is more accurate; Matts good, but no one person makes what happens in those games; People are seeing years of friendships and banter culminating in a natural ability to play off each others quirks and moods... ON TOP of being part of storytelling industry FOR a LIVING. The proper response to 'Be more Matt' would be 'Be a better main character/willing to sac a scene for support/anticipate where the scene is heading'.. Yikes. Consider how close these games come to what theyve trained to do for a living; Anytime Thor is animated, Its Travis voice, so 'BANG' Grog is is a muscle he already HAD, he just gets to do it for fun and whimsy now.
Number of players who demand Mercer level production: 0
Number of insecure dms who complain about players and hate on our pure-hearted Mercer: infinite
I think it’s really irresponsible to say that the Matt Mercer effect isn’t as popular as people think it is because “I’ve never heard anyone complain about it”. That’s an Anecdotal Fallacy, and that’s the same fallacy that causes the “I’ve only had positive experiences with ___, so I can’t believer that he was an abuser” problem.
My personal experience with problematic Critical Role fans has been very similar to some people’s Taylor Swift experience: if you aren’t a fan, that’s not acceptable; they’ll make you a fan. I personally don’t love watching Critical Role because I prefer the combat side of things in DnD, and they don’t do enough of that for me. Nonetheless, I’ve been harassed about how I should give it another shot.
That, and I’ve had fans really shove it in my face constantly bringing up when a situation in-game reminds them of a scene from the show.
And finally, I think that last TikTok does a great job of showing it, but I think the Matt Mercer Effect also sometimes makes fans feel like they can behave similar to the cast of the show. Shouting things out, having side conversations, and other similar behavior seems very normal there, but it’s not at all at my table. I have anxiety, so it actually makes things really difficult for me when the table gets like that.
Of course, I know not all Critical Role fans are like this, and I hope you read my comment open mindedly enough to understand another person’s perspective.
Critical Role is basically an Audio Drama, same as Acquisitions Incorporated!
I watched them live with episode 11 of season 1, and as they got more popular the more salt that was in the chat!
DMs and the other players need to state they are or aren't critical role standard of gameplay experience. Then players with critical role expectations will stay away and keep to players and DMs who can provide the critical role experience
As a newcomer to DnD, I see a lot of elitist/purist in this community so I'm not surprised that petty people are being petty. You don't own the DnD experience, let other experience it their own way.
I get why people believe in the Matt Mercer effect, but there are people like me who have literally been playing games in that style almost longer than Matt's been alive. I picked up D&D with Blue Box and even back then I was adding role play and non-combat elements in to make it less of a minatures wargame.
Also, just a side note, but CR has been almost entirely pre-recorded since the pandemic started. Since they decided to pre-record then for various reasons they've pretty much just carried that over. Usually these days the only not pre-recorded things are stuff they do for 1 shots, or special sponsored kind of spots, or the very rare everything is content spot.
If I recall, Matt is nearing his 40s, or into his early 40s now, so he's probably 'been doing this' for closer to 30 years.
The issue with 'other role playing games' is that D&D is probably recognized by 85% of people who are at the extreme fringe of gaming. Whereas for pretty much any other gaming system you have to be a 'lot deeper' into the hobby to be familiar with the game. So, if a person is brought into the hobby, there's an extremely high chance they will be introduced to D&D first. Maybe in the coming years, especially as soon as maybe 5 years from now, this might not be the case. But while it can be argued World of Darkness and other role play heavy games have been out for a long time, it's only really 'now' that non-D&D games are really getting any kind of exposure. (Especially with brand new systems just now coming out, or on the verge of coming out.)
Yeah the person at the end is annoying, but I actually find people who commonly use real world reference/comparison on anything to be annoying. Let the description of the thing be the thing, you don't need to find a comparison to a movie or book character / place / thing. At least you shouldn't. I guess I could see how people need a reference, but still, kind of a pet peeve for me I guess.
Finding a good group can be tough. I tell people it's like sexytimes. There's the perfect match, which is probably only a couple of times in a lifetime chance, the good match, where people get along and have fun, and then lots and lots of ways things don't match. I think people just don't realize that happens with pen and paper groups and expect it to work every time.
Bit off-topic. If you are interested in Call of Cthulu at some point, I encourage you to watch Chaotic Neutral's "The Yellow Sign of the Four", NRB/CHaotic Neutral had played Call of Cthulu before a couple times, and they very good at it, but this one in particular is in my opinion they're best one, the level of acting and improvising, and the payoff at the end, everything is just perfect, it really shows what can be done in CoC. I'll leave the link in case you're interested: th-cam.com/video/b95xDSL9nJk/w-d-xo.html
So I am a wargamer, as is my wife. So when we roleplay it's 50% combat, 35% exploration, and 15% social interactions. I also don't play the current addition. I use Shadowdark as a base, and have added a bunch of BECMI D&D back into it. Lastly I've added Diablo 2 AD&D 2nd edition item randomizer into the game, best choice I've ever made. As such I've made my favorite game system through using those systems. This obviously would be a game many would not enjoy especially those that are critical role fans as they tend to enjoy more social interactions. I find a lot of talky talky to be boring as many times players don't know how to push the game forward. But it isn't like I haven't had entire sessions that have been talky talky that has worked, was good and, enjoyable. But that is few and far between.
Wait wait wait, someone made a Diablo 2 D&D Item Randomizer?! They wouldn't happen to have made a 5E version of it, would they?
@@ForeverDegenerate Yeah TSR/Wizards made 2 diablo tie in books for D&D. One for 2nd edition, one for 3rd. The 2nd ed book have a fantastic item randomizer in it. you can find it floating online if you search D&D Diablo the awakening pdf. A free somewhere in the search could be useful as well, however I can not condone piracy. :)
@@ForeverDegenerate Well it seems like my other comment was deleted. So the book is called Diablo II - The Awakening. It is actually pretty easy to convert to whatever d20 system you are using.
I dont like the name, it should be called the critical role effect, because the cast is responsible as much as Matt. While I found other GM that I could follow, I never found a cast that are so badass at acting and reading the atmosphere and how they play. What draw me to CR was Nott the Brave, Jester and Caleb. Not Matt and his awesome npc or story telling, but just how badass and incredibly deep those 3 characters interaction were. Off course later on I learn to like each members for what they bring to the table but for me those 3 were incredible.
facts i agree with this whole heartedly
I don't like the phrase "Matt Mercer Effect"; I just believe it is fundamental misalignment of expectations. And that's generally fine, as it's expected in society to find those who align with you to pursue various goals.
That said, the issue I have with some of the Critical Role fanbase is that some feel that they must come to the defense of Critical Role for every small issue. Let's be very clear here, how Matt runs his table is completely up to him and he holds no fault; he's hitting the vibe his players enjoy. However, when you move that content out of the private home and place it on the internet for the masses... it's going to foment some criticism. Rulings, mechanics, choices.. it's all under the umbrella of public criticism. And not all criticism is negative; constructive criticism exists as well.
However, I think some of the fan base doesn't realize that they aren't responsible for defending Critical Role from all criticism. You can see a conversation occur, decide it's not one you need to get involved with or don't agree with, and simply move on. But some will step forward and begin arguments within the conversation in very toxic and unhealthy para-social ways. As if saying "man, Matt is really stepping forward a lot to ensure the PCs don't die as a consequence of their actions" is some sort of physical attack on him or the game. When it's just not; it's a viable criticism of a product marketed to the masses. It's a conversation and nothing more.
All that said, I view the majority of Critical Role fans as brothers and sisters in a hobby that I love and have enjoyed for decades. Diverse people who fill diverse tables and keep the hobby going. The tree shouldn't be destroyed by the few bad apples. Even if those apples tend to be some of the loudest people out there.
While I watch the entirety of the video, I can say why CR fans get a bad rap at least in my eyes. It has got nothing to do with the Matthew Mercer Effect. It has to do with "toxic positivity". Constructive criticism is not welcome there. I criticize everything I like and dislike. Then I realized that what I didn't like in CR's community, is the people in it. As time goes by, those people (the fans) are being, more and more, people that more and more people seem to dislike, even outside of the scope of the game or the show. I already dissociate myself from those of this bunch who are the most… eccentric, to stay polite, have been for years, but now, the entire fanbase is "eccentric", in that _bad_ sense of the word.
The Mercer Effect, I've never seen it, but I was playing before I started watching CR. Yes, it did put in perspective which of my DMs were good DMs and which weren't as much ; there is such a thing as a bad DM, but that is going to be a very personal judgment to make. Personally it has been people I end up not really getting along with and that was festering under everything else. But that's not really been an issue for me.
Toxic positivity? Criticism is not welcome? You criticise everything? Yeah… I think ‘self awareness’ might need some ASI, dude.
@@tasmanianbadger _« Toxic positivity? Criticism is not welcome? You criticise everything? Yeah… I think ‘self awareness’ might need some ASI, dude. »_
Perfect example of what I'm talking about. Remove the "constructive" from "constructive criticism", then directly go to personal attacks, feel free. But that's exactly what I mean, exactly the type of behavior I've been seeing from CR fans, at least online, thank you for proving my point.
And yes, "toxic positivity" is a thing. Here, let me help you out : en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toxic_positivity .
@@lonewaer… so… you didn’t like getting some constructive criticism? Really?!?! What’s wrong with you? And you get all emotional? Gee… you must have issues.
You weren’t really addressing the youtube clip. You were announcing to all of us that you find the fans of CR unworthy of your approval. They are cheerful or happy or something which you find toxic and need to shun.
Dude… nobody cares. You might as well have said ‘I like chocolate mint!’
You could have - alternatively - contributed to the topic by discussing the homogenising (look it up) effect of Critical Role on tabletop roleplaying. You could have launched a discussion about how the actual problematic aspect of Matt Mercer, Aabriyah Iyengar, Brennan Lee Mulligan, etc… is that they are intimidatingly good DMs. In the old days, the various gaming companies tried to encourage people to try their hand at being DMs.
Instead, you waste our time ranting and bleating about how you criticise what you like and what you don’t like… just grow up, would you please.
@@tasmanianbadger Ok gloves off.
_« … so… you didn’t like getting some constructive criticism? Really?!?! What’s wrong with you? And you get all emotional? Gee… you must have issues. »_
That wasn't a constructive criticism though that was a personal attack, which you're still going for, but nice try. Thank you again for keeping proving my point.
Now you're also being condescending, insinuating that I might need to look up "homogenizing". Without looking it up, can you explain to me why it means what it means ? The etymology ? I can. My first language is half-latin half-greek and has later on been coated with a nice layer of germanic.
Cheesus Crust, I graduated high school more than 20 years ago, that's high school knowledge my dude. Do understand that most people in the world get out of more efficient places than what American schools are. See I can be condescending too. It's really not that difficult, but I only do it when provoked.
If you were truly more grown up than you claim I am (hence why I'd need to grow up in your view), you'd have approached this exchange with a little bit more foresight (= "seeing forward" just so you know ; see I did it again) than to just revert to the behavior of an ideologue that happens to prove my point. You're walking into traps that weren't even traps.
The way you're approaching this, is exactly what's toxic : "it's negative because I don't like it so it must be silenced and I will make personal attacks because I have nothing else". Overall, you're not making a very good case for yourself.
I did contribute to the topic, you just don't like what I said about it. The Mercer Effect has been overblown since years ago, that is nothing new, but then that means that it isn't why the CR fan base gets a bad rap, it _cannot_ be the Mercer Effect. That was my second sentence. After that I explained why I thought the fan base got a bad rap, that is a better explanation. They're not happy, they're trying to power through their misery with happiness, that's the toxic positivity part. But you don't understand this because you don't think toxic positivity is real.
I said what I said, you don't like it, you can't refute it (or else you would have done it), and you jumped directly to personal attacks, so I'm not discussing it further with you. You haven't demonstrated anything to me that I didn't know, nor that you would have had anything of substance to contribute yourself. Where is your own contribution by the way ? I don't see a comment of yours that isn't a response to mine. Or maybe you don't actually have anything of substance to add… hmm…
_« Instead, you waste our time ranting and bleating about how you criticise what you like and what you don’t like… »_
No I made a reasonably small paragraph about it, now I'm wasting my time, yes, but trying to play chess with a pigeon. You're the pigeon.
@@lonewaer okay, junior… well… I am a retired academic. In Australia. My career spanned government, ngo’s, management of small business and academic researcher. If you were blessed with … well… the attributes you claim, you would include some maturity. My first response to you, suggested that the tone of your comment was a bit too focused on dumping on others. A mature reply would have been ‘Oh. I see your point. Failed to convey my point clearly.’ Or, possibly, ‘Hang on. I don’t think I was that negative…’
Did you respond that way? No. You had a tantrum. One you now seem keen to continue. I urged you to grow up because my comment was rather mild to result in the level of your melt down. Even your language is childish ‘gloves off’. Where are you? A playground?
Even now, you seem fixated on ‘showing me’… dude… I don’t care. You can be as belligerent as you like, as childish and petulant as you wish… I am still not going to care. You made a crappy bunch of observations that were more about you than the subject. Deal with it. Accept that a comment can be made about the tenor of your comments without it being an attack.
Your feelings are hurt and you are angry… so something I’m saying is registering.
I genuinely haven’t gone after you. If I had, you’d be even more upset… and I still would not have cared about your silly, nonsense argument.
Take a breather. Go for a walk. Calm down.
"DM's are toxic and 'threatened' by Matt Mercer" "DM's are running subpar games and its their fault that the games suck- not Matt Mercer- they should learn from what he does." "DM's need to allow players to do whatever they want to add to the story, like Critical Role, and stop trying to get their story out in everyone's face." "DM's need to stop whining about Matt Mercer and try harder to do what he does and listen to us, the players, we know what we like(critical role) and we will drop your game to go find one that lets us play clones of the characters they play on their show"
By the way, statements similar to these- ARE the Matt Mercer Effect.
I don't think listening to your players is the MM effect. It is just being a decent human being.
I mostly DM and I've never met anyone that held me to Critical Role standards. I have however played with a GM that vetoed everything we proposed and railroaded hard. Granted, it was his first game, but it was also the last game for most of the players.
The Big Bang Theory especially is very bad in its portrayal of D&D specifically and nerd/geek culture in general. They look at is as something to be laughed at or looked down upon, and deride instead of celebrate and uplift the hobby imo. I really hate the show when initially I used to find it funny. Personally I always hated CR and always thought it was overrated but I give Mercer and CR credit for getting more people in the hobby, even though 5e is not my favorite version of the game.
I truly think most people who want a game like critical role, very heavy rp, would be better served with a game like Vampire or monster of the week
The real Matt Mercer effect is the way Mercer gets overpraised for creating the "Story first" style of Games Mastering, even though it existed long before he ever picked up a d20.