Scott you introduced me to Classical. I have enjoyed your reviews of the music. I now have a few in my collection, including Scheherazade. I don’t have Bartok. I will certainly order this as it is still in stock with AP. You’ve been spot on with your reviews. By the way, thanks for your review of Black Orpheus. I had my copy yesterday, which is awesome. Many thanks
That's awesome! Please be sure to stream my recommendations first - some of this music is very modern and quite different to most classical. Glad you are enjoying the Black Orpheus One Step. Great record. I'll have more classical coming soon. Thanks for your support!
Thank you for continuing this series. My first holy Sh#t moment with classical was hearing a mercury living presence on a crosley suitcase with a subwoofer hooked up to it if you can believe it and being floored by the amazing sound even on that player...collecting these absolute treasures is becoming my new obsession and i thank you for feeding the fire!!!
You're welcome, I'm so glad you're enjoying them. Other labels will be coming soon and Mercury Living Presence will be featured. I was able to collect a lot of them and have originals, Golden Imports and modern audiophile reissues from Classic, Speakers Corner and more! That is a great story you told there!
Hi Scott, Hope all is well. Great video 😊😊😊 A lot of information and break down. Thank you so much I am getting into classical music and this video helps me. Well done! Bravo Have a wonderful one
Thanks Scott for this beautiful Video. I can hear very much your passion for music. I have the Bartok Orchestra from Classic. And I will get try to get the String as 45. I do have a Lyra and a Sumile cartridge. The Lyra Etna always tries to show what is possible and the Sumile is beautiful relaxed. Better for longer listening. Regards from Munich. Jan
Since I switched from conical to Contact Line, then to Micro-Ridge geometry (somehow a variant of the Shibata) I also noticed more noise, but I'm confident that those are less forgiving and if precisely adjusted, they have better HF response, less distortion, etc. I prefer this (even if it reveals more pressing errors, the tape's noise, etc.) then "masking" them with a classic, conical-shaped diamond. I’m glad you are reviewing those classical releases, too rare on YT nowadays. Specially less accessible classicals. Your today’s choice is particularly exiting for me, as it happens to be both composed and conducted by Hungarians :) Nice coincidence. I have both of them (this and the Concerto For Orchestra) but on AP/Classic reissues only. Cheers from Budapest (Hungary).
Hi, and thanks for your comments and encouragement. I don't think I would go back to a conical, but maybe to elliptical if it was quieter in the groove. I'm going to try an elliptical this weekend. You might be right though and this is the trade off for the detail and tracking - groove noise is enhanced. I'll have more insight soon.
@@ThePressingMatters Yes, the elliptical (not to mention the Hyper-Elliptical) might be the sweet spot in terms of subtle attenuation, but still decent detail and frequency response, although it seems weird to actually attribute such importance to the diamond geometry :) Fact is that I heard a clear difference between the Contact Line and the Micro Ridge (the latter being more resolving for my ears and in my system) as it was within the very same Benz Micro LP pickup, which was re-tipped at the factory. With a different brand/model change, I guess other factors will contribute to the perceived sound reproduction difference. But hey, we all like this game with our expensive toys :) Will be interested to read your impressions!
@@Domonkos.Siegfried You're actually spot on about the diamond geometry and believe me it is not weird at all that the shape and size impacts detail retrieval directly. After all that is the first point of contact with the grooves and in many cases the walls of those grooves are simply too narrow for a conical or an elliptical stylus to get inside properly. It's simple physics really, the more advanced stylus shapes are better and perform better than but due to that they'll also expose imperfect grooves much more as well. Whether it's dirty or badly pressed grooves a shibata or any line contact type of stylus will not hide those imperfections like a conicals or ellipticals can. It is a balancing act but for me the trade off is totally worth it. When your records are well cleaned, pressed well and playing the more advanced stylus shapes win always. It's hard for me to sit down and listen to conical or elliptical on my main system after living with shibata for so long, but for old and really worn out records they are perfect. Less surface noise, but less of everything else also. And yes all due to stylus geometry, an aspect as important in cartridge design as anything else in my opinion :)
@@werk4408 Doing some initial listening now and although there's only an hour on it, it is quieter with less incisive detail. It's quite beautiful but perhaps the complete opposite of the Hana. We'll see what happens when it's broken in.
I wanted to correct my error. It was the third movement, the adagio, that was used in the Shining. The strings in this work are divided into two separate string groups. One on each side of the stage and you get an antiphonal effect especially noticeable in the second movement allegro.
Hi Scott, Thank you for the correction. I had heard about the unusual string arrangement used here and it is a great effect. Great information, thanks so much for sharing it!
Bravo, Scott! For selfish reasons, I'm thrilled you prefer the AP/QRP pressings, because those are the only ones I own. (Well, for a couple titles in the series not currently available on AP/QRP, I hunted down the Classics/Red Seal versions on Discogs.) I've been collecting the AP/QRP RCA LS series for 6-7 years and have about 40. (When I had COVID in summer 2021, I bought a dozen of them as retail therapy and they cured me.) They are all stunning. I have only the 33rpm versions. In an internet forum on RCA Living Stereo titles, there's a consensus that the CSO/Reiner Scheherazade sounds mind-blowingly great on 2x45.. I'd just purchased it on 33 so I was a little bummed. But I agree with you, flipping or changing discs in the middle of a movement diminishes the experience. And the 33s do sound wonderful. Happily, Acoustic Sounds has about 50-60 of them in stock, and usually does. (They don't get new titles in the series very often, or rather, they don't repress them very often, so grab what you can while you can.) Depending on your taste in classical music, of course, I'd recommend any of the BSO/Munch or BSO/Monteux titles. Of course, you can't go wrong with CSO/Reiner. Lastly, anything with Jascha Heifetz or Arthur Rubinstein is a safe bet for thrilling, world-class performances sounding their very best. Good luck getting your cart issues sorted out. Kind regards, Ron C. Kenosha WI
Hi Ron, I really do prefer them - presented better than originals with original artwork, labels and clean pressings. Excellent modern remastering with a respect for the originals. And mostly available. I have all the out of stock ones on notification. I grab them as they come back into stock. Just ordered Rubinstein Rachmaninoff and Reiner Iberia. I've got another four I haven't reviewed yet, the Carmen, Van Cliburn, and Bolero among them. Great fun!
Always informative. I have a few of the Living Stereos and the Classics and enjoy them all. On a different note, I just hooked up my new Modwright 9.0X and love it. I’m using it with an MM cart, so I reduced the gain -6 dB. That seems to be the correct setting. Overall, the unit is perfectly matched with my McIntosh MA8900. Thank you for leading the way.
@@ThePressingMatters I have the Master Tracker that came with my MOFI Ultradeck turntable, and I cut the gain 6 dBs. Mark anticipated I would need to adjust the gain by 6 or 12 with an MM cart. 6 appears to do the trick. I hope that helps.
@@ThePressingMatters MW was definitely moving me towards the cart you have. I’m definitely not as knowledgeable about gear as I should be, but I’m more convinced than ever, good results stem from component comparability. It’s complicated and a bit mysterious, at least to. The new preamp brought a huge enhancement. That’s for sure.
I noticed something very similar with groove noise when I tried out a Shibata stylus. I did get it dialed in but it really meant getting that cartridge perfectly aligned for VTA but particularly for azimuth. If you look at the shape of a Shibata stylus you can tell you do not want one side of the stylus to be scraping one wall more than an other. But unless you have VTA in the fly, going from 140g to 200 g records can make a huge difference on a Shibata. I think your better off with a MicroLine and I believe you did already upgrade to one. You still have to be more precise. I am curious with your targeting this noise off of AP record. Maybe we are tracking to high for an AP record. If you track 2.0gr maybe drop it to 1.8-1.9 and see if the noise has lessened.
Since the publication of this video, I've tried two other cartridges and both performed much better in this respect than the Shibata tipped SL. I'd never go the route again. So glad I got it all sorted out and didn't lose anything on the Hana.
@@ThePressingMatters I watched your Hana ML video right after I posted that, lol. Yep micro line did the trick!!! I find if you can get the VTA and azimuth just right, the cartridge just opens up. I have danced around this spot and finally got my Soundsmith Zephyr MKIII cartridge singingI. It was like I had a whole new cartridge
There's also a video in the cartridge that was in between these two, the Audio Technica AT 33EV. If you watch that you will sense my great relief from that plague of surface noise from the SL.
@@ThePressingMatters I watched that one as well. And I agree with your sentiment regarding the AT cartridges. The one’s I have tried were really good, natural sounding, but forgiving like you said. Put a bad sounding record on an AT cart and you won’t be able tell how bad it really is in comparison to a more revealing cartridge. The one thing about using a premium cart for a while is if you try a cart not up to it’s caliber, you notice high frequency and bass response differences immediately and you tell yourself, nah this is not the same experience. I know now why I am buying a premium cart. VC collectors focused on audiophile pressings are paying top dollar to hear the best, but they forget a true cartridge upgrade is the easiest way to hear more into the recordings. Next is speakers. Actually you can almost interchange those upgrades depending upon current speaker choice. Get there and all your audiophile pressings will reveal sounds you have never heard before.
@@matthewtapley2765 I imagine the interpretation to be good. He did have a reputation for interfering with the sound engineers job. Some of his records are not that distinctive sonically. Maybe they'll be some improvements over the original DGG pressings in these reissues
Hi Scott another enjoyable envy inducing video. I do prefer percussion over orchestra and I support you moving over to covering some more challenging/rewarding classical pieces that give a decent stereo system a full on workout. At the moment my percussion go to is an early Argo pressing of Neville Marriner with ASMF but I will keep an eye out in case I come across a decent condition second hand of the Reiner. I like you have also had good experience with the red label RCA pressings, not spectacular but rarely let you down.
Hey if you like percussion and are adventurous, seek out some of the modem percussion discs on Nonesuch. Percussion Music is a title that was on the TAS list and I will cover it at some point. There's several others freaturing the NJ Percussion ensemble. These all are engineered by Marc Aubort and mastered by Robert Ludwig.
Hi Scott! You are helping me a great deal to selectively build my classical vinyl collection. (I need to be very selective since my shelving space is mostly dedicated to jazz.) I have the Music for Strings … from AP as well and it is great listening. Interestingly I have ordered the AP reissue of Also sprach Zarathustra and the dealer send me instead the 33 Classic Records version which I like a lot. Did you have the opportunity to listen to both versions and if so, which version do you prefer? Unfortunately I do not have the space to own both.
I only have the Classic 33, Thomas, and I think that one is enough for me. I don't plan on getting the AP unless I go crazy and get them all. I'm listening today with a different cartridge, the AT 33EV. Very lush, perfect for these Living Stereos. LSC-2222 Reiner Iberia just came today, and I'm loving what I'm hearing. It's Debussy, so it's very impressionistic. It's prettier and more melodic than the Bartok discs. Spanish themes woven in and out. A few show off pieces on it too.
Great video again Scott. You have recently upgraded your sound; I am assuming your resolution has increased. Better tonearms are way quieter as far as lessening ticks and pops; but the question might be this. Does someone with really near state of the art resolution playing a record; does the cartridge resolve its own gliding sound tracing the grooves? It can resolve the tiny squiggles in the grooves, but at a certain point of high resolution, even if the vinyl is perfectly quiet, does it resolve the actual sound of the groove being traced by itself? Someone with high enough resolution on vinyl playback out there, should be able to answer that. If you have resolution capability like that playing vinyl, say 3 grades above Stereophile Class A equipment. Maybe something like that equipment, expertly modified. Recently I made big gains in among other things, the transparency of my sound playing cds. What I noticed along with such a big gain in transparency, is that the instruments sound narrower and more occupying their own space. This narrowing of individual instruments might be like a projector whose lens is adjusted til the image shrinks into perfect focus. The instruments sound like they are resolved down to a narrow pinpoint. I have no doubt that this has to do with a sound improvement; I can hear the sound is better, and in the past this has happened before. There is definitely less glare; maybe that's it. Glare can enlarge images. We run into all kinds of different phenomena in our upgrading journey; it's all part of the learning I listen to the JVC XRCD of the title you featured, which I like. I can't afford costly vinyl, unless I find it cheap used. The thing you showed about the white borders can help people distinguish original LSC's from the myriad of the many LSC titles re-released & offered on ebay.
You have an interesting point in that I have had an increase in resolution, and maybe other artifacts are being resolved over previous setups. I don't know the answer, but I don't think I recall high end demos having very noticeable groove noise. I can't wait to see if a different cartridge might help. A rather expensive misstep if it does, but I'm sure I can recoup some money for the Hana.
@@ThePressingMatters It would seem to me cartridges make sounds by actual physical scraping of squiggles in the groove, but they are also coming into contact and scraping the groove wall itself. I would think that at an extremely high resolution level, maybe beyond high end setups you've heard, there would be some sound of the cartridge actually tracing the groove. Do high end manufacturers have $15,000 cartridges mointed with a bunch of people walking around and someone might mishandle it? I don't go to shows. MC cartridges are more lively and part of it is due to a less warm heightened presence and treble region. I like MC but am glad I went to moving flux. They track better than most MC's and have high output. There is always still the possibility of the cartridge alignment being a hair off. Or the alignment guage not being the best. The best when I was more into vinyl was the Dennessen Soundtractor.
.I actually once got to a point where between tracks I could hear a continual tracing of the groove sound. Could have been my cartridge was not perfectly aligned. I noticed it after I highly improved my preamp. There was obviously much higher resolution and it's one of those wonderful moments you never forget. Clarity, cleanness, tone colors, openness, speed; but I did for the first time notice that continual smooth swoosh sound between tracks. I did nothing with the cartridge in the interim, just made some improvements to my preamp. The other time I heard a strange near continual noise was years ago, when someone tried to sell me a $1,500 moving coil cartridge that had a fracture in it's body/shell and it had an output of only 0.05. That's half of 0.1mv. The shell was vibrating because of the fracture and the cartridge required such a big amount of gain from the preamp that it amplified that noise. Moving coils have such transparency, detail and speed that you will miss it, if you go to something lesser. But there are cartridges which have less upper midrange and treble energy. I remember reading years ago where Benz moving coil cartridges tend not to exaggerate surface noises. Vinyl playback can be troublesome, but some still think it is worth it.
Great video as usual! My shibata VM95SH is very quiet in the grooves provided that the record is cleaned well. I have about 10 of these AP living stereo classic titles and they're all very quiet with that stylus. Bear in mind that QRP don't polish (dehorn) their metal parts like some other pressing plants do so first few playthroughs might be a tad more noisy until the grooves settle. RTI is the same in this regard. Back to the Music For Strings though, I also have the Classic 33 and like you I think it sounds generally quite good. I wonder if its worth to double dip and get the AP 33 though, the AP 33 of the Concerto for Orchestra is quite lovely indeed but I'm not sure if the AP 33 of Music For Strings will be a major improvement over the Classic 33.
Thank you for your comment! I'm happy there are viewers following this series and are excited about Living Stereo. I I am aware that these lacquers aren't polished, but I'm not sure if that would cause the sound I'm speaking of. It would be great if that's all it is because it will quiet down with repeat plays. I'll know more on this on Sunday when I try a different cartridge. Most people do say these are very quiet records. I'm going to see if I can get these two ultrasonically cleaned and note if that makes a difference. I wouldn't say the AP is a major improvement but like Concerto, an improvement nonetheless. Are the strings on these albums just not the last word in refinement? Do you sense any strain or blurring in these passages?
@@ThePressingMatters Curious what happens when you try out the other cartridge. One thing to keep in mind that is more or less common knowledge I believe, lesser stylus shapes like conical and elliptical will always hide surface noise and imperfect grooves better than exotic and complex stylus shapes like shibata and microline. As with many things in life there's no best but rather comes down to compromise and balancing act. While I listen to really old and worn out LPs with conical stylus I always notice the drop in fidelity and detail retrieval in comparison with my shibata. If I were to play the same noisy LP with the shibata the sound instantly improves across the whole spectrum but so does the surface noise, as in there's just more of it. That's probably the reason so many supposedly high-end MC carts have an elliptical stylus, a lot of people consider that to be the happy medium place but I don't get that. Even the best polished nude elliptical diamond falls short in terms of tracking ability, detail retrieval and overall resolution against a shibata, microline or any other advanced stylus cut. Ellipticals are also pretty bad for longevity, after 250 or so hours they're basically done for which makes them technically more expensive to run in the long term than the better stylus shapes that easily last around 600 - 700 hours. Good point about the refinement of the string sections in those two LSC titles by Bartok. While they're pretty good I'd say overall there much better titles in the series in this regard. That much is obvious even in simple comparisons of the digital versions. What I mean is that the quality of the recordings, particularly regarding the string tone, while very good is not of the same caliber of say the Royal Ballet (LSC 6065) or Scheherezade (LSC 2446) in my opinion. That could be the reason why the difference betwen Classic 33 and AP 33 isn't as big here?
@@werk4408 I'm just having the first few listens with this AT33EV. Of course it only has an hour on it so I can't say much yet - but it is quieter in the groove, a bit rounded off, the detail is there but not as pushed forward as with my particular Hana (which may have an issue, it didn't look great under inspection with a microscope). It's a bit less dynamic so far - that should improve as it breaks in. Good thing is it's a trial - I'm not obligated to buy it. So it's an interesting exercise. The AP Living Stereo of Iberia sounds magical. Very beautiful and punchy where it needs to be. Do you have that one?
@@ThePressingMatters In terms of break in period the main aspect that should improve is the lower register, after the suspension settles in. With that the mids should open up as well but otherwise what you're hearing right away in terms of top end will largely remain the same. This "rolled-off" and more relaxed nature is the bread and butter of elliptical styli, and there's really nothing wrong with that. It is more or less the classic, warm type of sound that most think of when vinyl playback is mentioned. The AT33EV has a 0.3 x 0.7 elliptical profile which is more or less the industry standard, I prefer the 0.2 x 0.7 ones but they've become somewhat of a rarity these days. The difference there is subtle but noticeable, especially with sibilance in vocals, the part that ellipticals handle noticeably worse than more advanced stylus profiles. If this MC by Audio Technica doesn't exhibit any tracking distortion or hissing sounds on sibilant vocals recordings then you're all good. The cart I've been using is also by AT but it is the VM95SH with upgraded RigB body. I'm a MM guy through and through. The reasons are too many to get into here but let's just say it fits my lifestyle better and I'm also able the extract 100% of it. I listen to this I guess "budget" cartridge on a turntable + tonearm combo that retails for ~ $6.3k so believe me when I say that the resulting sound is not what you'd typically expect from a $200 MM cartridge. I also can't live without the ability to hot swap styli in seconds whenever I need to. The same generator body works with Conical, Elliptical and Microline even. As my tonearm does not have a removable headshell this feature is quite crucial to me and it is something I can not get from an MC cart.
@@werk4408 very interesting information, and I've made note of it. If the character of this one doesn't suit me, I'll be on the lookout for something else and I'm not opposed to moving magnet.
The Bartok was actually cut from the 2 track, for both the Classic and AP, one of the few in the series not from the 3 track. As for Shibata, Ive always heard that shape is extra noisy, ala 2M Black. Try an ML shape instead.
Hi Leon, Yes, the Bartok is an early one and is a true 2 track recording. I did realize that after publication and I will add a note in the description. Thanks for the reminder. I'm looking at an ML. I don't think I ever want a Shibata again. Thanks for your comment.
A little Saturday morning trivia. Other than Bela Bartok name another classical composer whose first & last name begin with the same letter & are both 2 syllables each like Bela Bartok? In my early 20s, when my lp collection wasn't that big yet, I started noticing that my records were mysteriously developing surface noise and loud snaps after just a few plays. It was a real head scratcher. I didn't have a stylus brush. I would take a deep breath and blow on the stylus. Micro food debris must have been getting on the stylus, sticking to it and contaminating it, making it a literal chisel going through the grooves; and degrading them. I was fortunate that I didn't have many records yet. If I was looking for a new cartridge at a reasonable price, hoping not to lose much sound quality, some possible candidates would be: Grado (several models), Denon 103R, a Decca cartridge (they use springs instead of a cantilever), Ortofon Cadenza Blue MC cartridge, NOS Benz MC cartridges, NOS Sonus Gold/Blue (moving iron cartridge), and if finances permit; the over $2,500 DS Audio light beam cartridge. It is said to be a champ for supressing surface noise of lps.
@@ThePressingMatters The 103R is considered by all accounts I've seen, to be a much better cartridge. The stylus shape and cantilever are better. It is said to be perhaps the only cartridge you can buy for under $500 that can compete with over $1,000 cartridges. Have no idea how it is with surface noise I think the upper midrange prominence of the regular 103 has been lessened with the R version.. Grado cartridges have been viewed as a welcome relief by many who didn't like their thin sounding & treble accentuated moving coil carts. Audio Technica makes fine moving coil cartridges but their house sound is a little treble oriented also. The older Koetsu Black cartridge was warm & a little slow for a moving coil, but so good on voice & everything else midrange. There is just something about them that people fall in love with. Moving iron cartridges, I've had a few of. They're fast like moving coils, but higher output & usually track better. There is a Goldring cartridge around $600 to $700+ that is supposed to be superb. The only moving magnet cartridge that I've actually heard that really impressed me was an Audio Technica ML180 circa 1979 or something. It was their top of the line cartridge and it wasn't available in America. You had to special order it. You could only get the next one down in America; the ML 170. No slouch either I'm sure. If you had a real light tonearm the top of the line ADC cartridges from the early 1980s are supposed to be some of the best cartridges ever. There are some NOS at times on ebay I would see if DS Audio wouldn't let you review their light beam cartridge. It is supposed to be otherworldy how it greatly lessens lp groove noise.
@@ThePressingMatters That would be one that I'd like to hear too. The light beam doesn't actually replace the stylus and cantilever, it just translates what the. stylus and cantilever motion picks up. The light beam replaces the magnets of an MM cartridge or the coils of an MC cartridge. The Audiophiliac here on TH-cam reviewed it a few months ago. He said it competes with other $2,700 cartridges but sounds way less like you are playing a record than even $10,000 cartridges in its quietness in the groove, its amazing way with lessening groove noise and other things. I think the one I'd really like to hear even more is their $60,000 model. There might be some models in between also. Maybe the $60,000 model would let us know exactly how good the lp really is.
If you were at that Florida Audio Expo in the room with the turntable in between the 2 big orange with black trim Focal speakers you might have heard the DS light beam cartridge. They were using it on the turntable a video shows. The famous classical composer with a 2 syllable first name and 2 syllable last name where both names start with the same letter like the B's in Bela Bartok is: See below. .........Edward Elgar also Thomas Tallis
I believe they used the second movement in Stanley Kubrick's The Shining. I think it was Karajan's version which is not as good as Reiner's. Reiner/CSO bring out the creepiness and elegance perfectly. The recording demonstrates the wonderful acoustics Orchestra Hall had originally. The resonance of the block, the richness of the viola tone and the timpani glissandi come through perfectly. The 1966 renovation removed so much plaster from the ceiling and walls to install air conditioning ducts that it ruined the acoustics.
I've heard about that unfortunate renovation. I've never been there at all. That's a shame. I didn't realize the music was used in The Shining! Might be a good Halloween movie for this year!
Scott- Great that you’re exploring these classical releases even though they won’t get as many hits as the jazz records. I have both of those in the Classic Records version. Not sure it’s worth it to me to order the AP. One of each is enough for me. Another factor is, in the classical realm I more often listen to smaller groups, chamber or solo. I find that the older I get, the more uncomfortable it is to listen to full orchestral pieces at a satisfying volume. It’s just a bit too overwhelming at times.
Thanks Eric, Yes these videos have a small but appreciative following. I would say you are set on these given what you've told me. My system can get a bit confused with large orchestral pieces and definitely sounds better with small scale works. These recordings are legendary for performance but they are not free of distortion here and there. If you're not a completest, stay with the Classics
Scott you introduced me to Classical. I have enjoyed your reviews of the music. I now have a few in my collection, including Scheherazade. I don’t have Bartok. I will certainly order this as it is still in stock with AP. You’ve been spot on with your reviews. By the way, thanks for your review of Black Orpheus. I had my copy yesterday, which is awesome. Many thanks
That's awesome! Please be sure to stream my recommendations first - some of this music is very modern and quite different to most classical. Glad you are enjoying the Black Orpheus One Step. Great record. I'll have more classical coming soon. Thanks for your support!
Thank you for continuing this series. My first holy Sh#t moment with classical was hearing a mercury living presence on a crosley suitcase with a subwoofer hooked up to it if you can believe it and being floored by the amazing sound even on that player...collecting these absolute treasures is becoming my new obsession and i thank you for feeding the fire!!!
You're welcome, I'm so glad you're enjoying them. Other labels will be coming soon and Mercury Living Presence will be featured. I was able to collect a lot of them and have originals, Golden Imports and modern audiophile reissues from Classic, Speakers Corner and more! That is a great story you told there!
I collect Living Stereo classical and it's always great to hear your comparisons. Thanks!
Thanks Jason, glad you are enjoying this series. What do you think of these two titles? Do you have any issues reproducing the strings?
Love the reviews of classical albums!
Great! There will be more coming regularly. Thank you for the encouragement!
Hi Scott,
Hope all is well. Great video 😊😊😊
A lot of information and break down. Thank you so much
I am getting into classical music and this video helps me.
Well done! Bravo
Have a wonderful one
Thank you Joey! Great to hear from you. Such a great, vast genre that needs some love!
Thanks Scott for this beautiful Video. I can hear very much your passion for music. I have the Bartok Orchestra from Classic. And I will get try to get the String as 45. I do have a Lyra and a Sumile cartridge. The Lyra Etna always tries to show what is possible and the Sumile is beautiful relaxed. Better for longer listening. Regards from Munich. Jan
That's what I'm searching for - beautiful and relaxed. I hope I find it.
I also have a Lyra Etna on a very transparent system this can give a huge sound stage and be very revealing, not however to everyone's taste
Since I switched from conical to Contact Line, then to Micro-Ridge geometry (somehow a variant of the Shibata) I also noticed more noise, but I'm confident that those are less forgiving and if precisely adjusted, they have better HF response, less distortion, etc. I prefer this (even if it reveals more pressing errors, the tape's noise, etc.) then "masking" them with a classic, conical-shaped diamond.
I’m glad you are reviewing those classical releases, too rare on YT nowadays. Specially less accessible classicals. Your today’s choice is particularly exiting for me, as it happens to be both composed and conducted by Hungarians :) Nice coincidence. I have both of them (this and the Concerto For Orchestra) but on AP/Classic reissues only. Cheers from Budapest (Hungary).
Hi, and thanks for your comments and encouragement. I don't think I would go back to a conical, but maybe to elliptical if it was quieter in the groove. I'm going to try an elliptical this weekend. You might be right though and this is the trade off for the detail and tracking - groove noise is enhanced. I'll have more insight soon.
@@ThePressingMatters Yes, the elliptical (not to mention the Hyper-Elliptical) might be the sweet spot in terms of subtle attenuation, but still decent detail and frequency response, although it seems weird to actually attribute such importance to the diamond geometry :) Fact is that I heard a clear difference between the Contact Line and the Micro Ridge (the latter being more resolving for my ears and in my system) as it was within the very same Benz Micro LP pickup, which was re-tipped at the factory. With a different brand/model change, I guess other factors will contribute to the perceived sound reproduction difference. But hey, we all like this game with our expensive toys :) Will be interested to read your impressions!
@@Domonkos.Siegfried You're actually spot on about the diamond geometry and believe me it is not weird at all that the shape and size impacts detail retrieval directly. After all that is the first point of contact with the grooves and in many cases the walls of those grooves are simply too narrow for a conical or an elliptical stylus to get inside properly. It's simple physics really, the more advanced stylus shapes are better and perform better than but due to that they'll also expose imperfect grooves much more as well. Whether it's dirty or badly pressed grooves a shibata or any line contact type of stylus will not hide those imperfections like a conicals or ellipticals can. It is a balancing act but for me the trade off is totally worth it. When your records are well cleaned, pressed well and playing the more advanced stylus shapes win always. It's hard for me to sit down and listen to conical or elliptical on my main system after living with shibata for so long, but for old and really worn out records they are perfect. Less surface noise, but less of everything else also. And yes all due to stylus geometry, an aspect as important in cartridge design as anything else in my opinion :)
@@werk4408 Doing some initial listening now and although there's only an hour on it, it is quieter with less incisive detail. It's quite beautiful but perhaps the complete opposite of the Hana. We'll see what happens when it's broken in.
I wanted to correct my error. It was the third movement, the adagio, that was used in the Shining.
The strings in this work are divided into two separate string groups. One on each side of the stage and you get an antiphonal effect especially noticeable in the second movement allegro.
Hi Scott,
Thank you for the correction. I had heard about the unusual string arrangement used here and it is a great effect. Great information, thanks so much for sharing it!
Bravo, Scott!
For selfish reasons, I'm thrilled you prefer the AP/QRP pressings, because those are the only ones I own. (Well, for a couple titles in the series not currently available on AP/QRP, I hunted down the Classics/Red Seal versions on Discogs.)
I've been collecting the AP/QRP RCA LS series for 6-7 years and have about 40. (When I had COVID in summer 2021, I bought a dozen of them as retail therapy and they cured me.) They are all stunning.
I have only the 33rpm versions. In an internet forum on RCA Living Stereo titles, there's a consensus that the CSO/Reiner Scheherazade sounds mind-blowingly great on 2x45.. I'd just purchased it on 33 so I was a little bummed. But I agree with you, flipping or changing discs in the middle of a movement diminishes the experience. And the 33s do sound wonderful.
Happily, Acoustic Sounds has about 50-60 of them in stock, and usually does. (They don't get new titles in the series very often, or rather, they don't repress them very often, so grab what you can while you can.)
Depending on your taste in classical music, of course, I'd recommend any of the BSO/Munch or BSO/Monteux titles. Of course, you can't go wrong with CSO/Reiner. Lastly, anything with Jascha Heifetz or Arthur Rubinstein is a safe bet for thrilling, world-class performances sounding their very best.
Good luck getting your cart issues sorted out.
Kind regards,
Ron C.
Kenosha WI
Hi Ron,
I really do prefer them - presented better than originals with original artwork, labels and clean pressings. Excellent modern remastering with a respect for the originals. And mostly available.
I have all the out of stock ones on notification. I grab them as they come back into stock. Just ordered Rubinstein Rachmaninoff and Reiner Iberia. I've got another four I haven't reviewed yet, the Carmen, Van Cliburn, and Bolero among them. Great fun!
Always informative. I have a few of the Living Stereos and the Classics and enjoy them all. On a different note, I just hooked up my new Modwright 9.0X and love it. I’m using it with an MM cart, so I reduced the gain -6 dB. That seems to be the correct setting. Overall, the unit is perfectly matched with my McIntosh MA8900. Thank you for leading the way.
Jody, I'm so glad to hear you are loving the Modwright! Can I ask what cartridge? I'm shopping for something different.
@@ThePressingMatters I have the Master Tracker that came with my MOFI Ultradeck turntable, and I cut the gain 6 dBs. Mark anticipated I would need to adjust the gain by 6 or 12 with an MM cart. 6 appears to do the trick. I hope that helps.
I also use an Ortofon LVB on my other turntable. I love that cart!
@@jodygoeler586 Thanks! I haven't tried a MM yet on the Modwright. I should try it!
@@ThePressingMatters MW was definitely moving me towards the cart you have. I’m definitely not as knowledgeable about gear as I should be, but I’m more convinced than ever, good results stem from component comparability. It’s complicated and a bit mysterious, at least to. The new preamp brought a huge enhancement. That’s for sure.
I noticed something very similar with groove noise when I tried out a Shibata stylus. I did get it dialed in but it really meant getting that cartridge perfectly aligned for VTA but particularly for azimuth. If you look at the shape of a Shibata stylus you can tell you do not want one side of the stylus to be scraping one wall more than an other. But unless you have VTA in the fly, going from 140g to 200 g records can make a huge difference on a Shibata. I think your better off with a MicroLine and I believe you did already upgrade to one. You still have to be more precise. I am curious with your targeting this noise off of AP record. Maybe we are tracking to high for an AP record. If you track 2.0gr maybe drop it to 1.8-1.9 and see if the noise has lessened.
Since the publication of this video, I've tried two other cartridges and both performed much better in this respect than the Shibata tipped SL. I'd never go the route again. So glad I got it all sorted out and didn't lose anything on the Hana.
@@ThePressingMatters I watched your Hana ML video right after I posted that, lol. Yep micro line did the trick!!! I find if you can get the VTA and azimuth just right, the cartridge just opens up. I have danced around this spot and finally got my Soundsmith Zephyr MKIII cartridge singingI. It was like I had a whole new cartridge
There's also a video in the cartridge that was in between these two, the Audio Technica AT 33EV. If you watch that you will sense my great relief from that plague of surface noise from the SL.
@@ThePressingMatters I watched that one as well. And I agree with your sentiment regarding the AT cartridges. The one’s I have tried were really good, natural sounding, but forgiving like you said. Put a bad sounding record on an AT cart and you won’t be able tell how bad it really is in comparison to a more revealing cartridge. The one thing about using a premium cart for a while is if you try a cart not up to it’s caliber, you notice high frequency and bass response differences immediately and you tell yourself, nah this is not the same experience. I know now why I am buying a premium cart. VC collectors focused on audiophile pressings are paying top dollar to hear the best, but they forget a true cartridge upgrade is the easiest way to hear more into the recordings. Next is speakers. Actually you can almost interchange those upgrades depending upon current speaker choice. Get there and all your audiophile pressings will reveal sounds you have never heard before.
@@illumon8 Speakers are my next focus for sure!
I’m enjoying these classical reviews. Have you heard the deutche grammaphone of the strings percussion and celeste?
Thanks Matthew! No I have not heard it? Who is the conductor ?
Herbert von Karajan. It has to be good!
@@matthewtapley2765 I imagine the interpretation to be good. He did have a reputation for interfering with the sound engineers job. Some of his records are not that distinctive sonically. Maybe they'll be some improvements over the original DGG pressings in these reissues
Hi Scott another enjoyable envy inducing video. I do prefer percussion over orchestra and I support you moving over to covering some more challenging/rewarding classical pieces that give a decent stereo system a full on workout. At the moment my percussion go to is an early Argo pressing of Neville Marriner with ASMF but I will keep an eye out in case I come across a decent condition second hand of the Reiner. I like you have also had good experience with the red label RCA pressings, not spectacular but rarely let you down.
Hey if you like percussion and are adventurous, seek out some of the modem percussion discs on Nonesuch. Percussion Music is a title that was on the TAS list and I will cover it at some point. There's several others freaturing the NJ Percussion ensemble. These all are engineered by Marc Aubort and mastered by Robert Ludwig.
Hi Scott! You are helping me a great deal to selectively build my classical vinyl collection. (I need to be very selective since my shelving space is mostly dedicated to jazz.) I have the Music for Strings … from AP as well and it is great listening. Interestingly I have ordered the AP reissue of Also sprach Zarathustra and the dealer send me instead the 33 Classic Records version which I like a lot. Did you have the opportunity to listen to both versions and if so, which version do you prefer? Unfortunately I do not have the space to own both.
I only have the Classic 33, Thomas, and I think that one is enough for me. I don't plan on getting the AP unless I go crazy and get them all. I'm listening today with a different cartridge, the AT 33EV. Very lush, perfect for these Living Stereos. LSC-2222 Reiner Iberia just came today, and I'm loving what I'm hearing. It's Debussy, so it's very impressionistic. It's prettier and more melodic than the Bartok discs. Spanish themes woven in and out. A few show off pieces on it too.
Many thanks, Scott. I am with you, because I already have the Three Cornered Hat, and I love it. Enjoy your alternate cartridge.
Great video again Scott. You have recently upgraded your sound; I am assuming your resolution has increased. Better tonearms are way quieter as far as lessening ticks and pops; but the question might be this. Does someone with really near state of the art resolution playing a record; does the cartridge resolve its own gliding sound tracing the grooves? It can resolve the tiny squiggles in the grooves, but at a certain point of high resolution, even if the vinyl is perfectly quiet, does it resolve the actual sound of the groove being traced by itself? Someone with high enough resolution on vinyl playback out there, should be able to answer that. If you have resolution capability like that playing vinyl, say 3 grades above Stereophile Class A equipment. Maybe something like that equipment, expertly modified.
Recently I made big gains in among other things, the transparency of my sound playing cds. What I noticed along with such a big gain in transparency, is that the instruments sound narrower and more occupying their own space. This narrowing of individual instruments might be like a projector whose lens is adjusted til the image shrinks into perfect focus. The instruments sound like they are resolved down to a narrow pinpoint. I have no doubt that this has to do with a sound improvement; I can hear the sound is better, and in the past this has happened before. There is definitely less glare; maybe that's it. Glare can enlarge images. We run into all kinds of different phenomena in our upgrading journey; it's all part of the learning
I listen to the JVC XRCD of the title you featured, which I like. I can't afford costly vinyl, unless I find it cheap used. The thing you showed about the white borders can help people distinguish original LSC's from the myriad of the many LSC titles re-released & offered on ebay.
You have an interesting point in that I have had an increase in resolution, and maybe other artifacts are being resolved over previous setups. I don't know the answer, but I don't think I recall high end demos having very noticeable groove noise. I can't wait to see if a different cartridge might help. A rather expensive misstep if it does, but I'm sure I can recoup some money for the Hana.
@@ThePressingMatters It would seem to me cartridges make sounds by actual physical scraping of squiggles in the groove, but they are also coming into contact and scraping the groove wall itself. I would think that at an extremely high resolution level, maybe beyond high end setups you've heard, there would be some sound of the cartridge actually tracing the groove. Do high end manufacturers have $15,000 cartridges mointed with a bunch of people walking around and someone might mishandle it? I don't go to shows. MC cartridges are more lively and part of it is due to a less warm heightened presence and treble region. I like MC but am glad I went to moving flux. They track better than most MC's and have high output. There is always still the possibility of the cartridge alignment being a hair off. Or the alignment guage not being the best. The best when I was more into vinyl was the Dennessen Soundtractor.
.I actually once got to a point where between tracks I could hear a continual tracing of the groove sound. Could have been my cartridge was not perfectly aligned. I noticed it after I highly improved my preamp. There was obviously much higher resolution and it's one of those wonderful moments you never forget. Clarity, cleanness, tone colors, openness, speed; but I did for the first time notice that continual smooth swoosh sound between tracks. I did nothing with the cartridge in the interim, just made some improvements to my preamp. The other time I heard a strange near continual noise was years ago, when someone tried to sell me a $1,500 moving coil cartridge that had a fracture in it's body/shell and it had an output of only 0.05. That's half of 0.1mv. The shell was vibrating because of the fracture and the cartridge required such a big amount of gain from the preamp that it amplified that noise. Moving coils have such transparency, detail and speed that you will miss it, if you go to something lesser. But there are cartridges which have less upper midrange and treble energy. I remember reading years ago where Benz moving coil cartridges tend not to exaggerate surface noises. Vinyl playback can be troublesome, but some still think it is worth it.
Great video as usual! My shibata VM95SH is very quiet in the grooves provided that the record is cleaned well. I have about 10 of these AP living stereo classic titles and they're all very quiet with that stylus. Bear in mind that QRP don't polish (dehorn) their metal parts like some other pressing plants do so first few playthroughs might be a tad more noisy until the grooves settle. RTI is the same in this regard.
Back to the Music For Strings though, I also have the Classic 33 and like you I think it sounds generally quite good. I wonder if its worth to double dip and get the AP 33 though, the AP 33 of the Concerto for Orchestra is quite lovely indeed but I'm not sure if the AP 33 of Music For Strings will be a major improvement over the Classic 33.
Thank you for your comment! I'm happy there are viewers following this series and are excited about Living Stereo. I
I am aware that these lacquers aren't polished, but I'm not sure if that would cause the sound I'm speaking of. It would be great if that's all it is because it will quiet down with repeat plays. I'll know more on this on Sunday when I try a different cartridge. Most people do say these are very quiet records. I'm going to see if I can get these two ultrasonically cleaned and note if that makes a difference.
I wouldn't say the AP is a major improvement but like Concerto, an improvement nonetheless.
Are the strings on these albums just not the last word in refinement? Do you sense any strain or blurring in these passages?
@@ThePressingMatters Curious what happens when you try out the other cartridge. One thing to keep in mind that is more or less common knowledge I believe, lesser stylus shapes like conical and elliptical will always hide surface noise and imperfect grooves better than exotic and complex stylus shapes like shibata and microline. As with many things in life there's no best but rather comes down to compromise and balancing act. While I listen to really old and worn out LPs with conical stylus I always notice the drop in fidelity and detail retrieval in comparison with my shibata. If I were to play the same noisy LP with the shibata the sound instantly improves across the whole spectrum but so does the surface noise, as in there's just more of it. That's probably the reason so many supposedly high-end MC carts have an elliptical stylus, a lot of people consider that to be the happy medium place but I don't get that. Even the best polished nude elliptical diamond falls short in terms of tracking ability, detail retrieval and overall resolution against a shibata, microline or any other advanced stylus cut. Ellipticals are also pretty bad for longevity, after 250 or so hours they're basically done for which makes them technically more expensive to run in the long term than the better stylus shapes that easily last around 600 - 700 hours.
Good point about the refinement of the string sections in those two LSC titles by Bartok. While they're pretty good I'd say overall there much better titles in the series in this regard. That much is obvious even in simple comparisons of the digital versions. What I mean is that the quality of the recordings, particularly regarding the string tone, while very good is not of the same caliber of say the Royal Ballet (LSC 6065) or Scheherezade (LSC 2446) in my opinion. That could be the reason why the difference betwen Classic 33 and AP 33 isn't as big here?
@@werk4408 I'm just having the first few listens with this AT33EV. Of course it only has an hour on it so I can't say much yet - but it is quieter in the groove, a bit rounded off, the detail is there but not as pushed forward as with my particular Hana (which may have an issue, it didn't look great under inspection with a microscope). It's a bit less dynamic so far - that should improve as it breaks in. Good thing is it's a trial - I'm not obligated to buy it. So it's an interesting exercise. The AP Living Stereo of Iberia sounds magical. Very beautiful and punchy where it needs to be. Do you have that one?
@@ThePressingMatters In terms of break in period the main aspect that should improve is the lower register, after the suspension settles in. With that the mids should open up as well but otherwise what you're hearing right away in terms of top end will largely remain the same. This "rolled-off" and more relaxed nature is the bread and butter of elliptical styli, and there's really nothing wrong with that. It is more or less the classic, warm type of sound that most think of when vinyl playback is mentioned. The AT33EV has a 0.3 x 0.7 elliptical profile which is more or less the industry standard, I prefer the 0.2 x 0.7 ones but they've become somewhat of a rarity these days. The difference there is subtle but noticeable, especially with sibilance in vocals, the part that ellipticals handle noticeably worse than more advanced stylus profiles. If this MC by Audio Technica doesn't exhibit any tracking distortion or hissing sounds on sibilant vocals recordings then you're all good.
The cart I've been using is also by AT but it is the VM95SH with upgraded RigB body. I'm a MM guy through and through. The reasons are too many to get into here but let's just say it fits my lifestyle better and I'm also able the extract 100% of it. I listen to this I guess "budget" cartridge on a turntable + tonearm combo that retails for ~ $6.3k so believe me when I say that the resulting sound is not what you'd typically expect from a $200 MM cartridge. I also can't live without the ability to hot swap styli in seconds whenever I need to. The same generator body works with Conical, Elliptical and Microline even. As my tonearm does not have a removable headshell this feature is quite crucial to me and it is something I can not get from an MC cart.
@@werk4408 very interesting information, and I've made note of it. If the character of this one doesn't suit me, I'll be on the lookout for something else and I'm not opposed to moving magnet.
The Bartok was actually cut from the 2 track, for both the Classic and AP, one of the few in the series not from the 3 track.
As for Shibata, Ive always heard that shape is extra noisy, ala 2M Black. Try an ML shape instead.
Hi Leon,
Yes, the Bartok is an early one and is a true 2 track recording. I did realize that after publication and I will add a note in the description. Thanks for the reminder. I'm looking at an ML. I don't think I ever want a Shibata again. Thanks for your comment.
A little Saturday morning trivia. Other than Bela Bartok name another classical composer whose first & last name begin with the same letter & are both 2 syllables each like Bela Bartok?
In my early 20s, when my lp collection wasn't that big yet, I started noticing that my records were mysteriously developing surface noise and loud snaps after just a few plays. It was a real head scratcher. I didn't have a stylus brush. I would take a deep breath and blow on the stylus. Micro food debris must have been getting on the stylus, sticking to it and contaminating it, making it a literal chisel going through the grooves; and degrading them. I was fortunate that I didn't have many records yet.
If I was looking for a new cartridge at a reasonable price, hoping not to lose much sound quality, some possible candidates would be: Grado (several models), Denon 103R, a Decca cartridge (they use springs instead of a cantilever), Ortofon Cadenza Blue MC cartridge, NOS Benz MC cartridges, NOS Sonus Gold/Blue (moving iron cartridge), and if finances permit; the over $2,500 DS Audio light beam cartridge. It is said to be a champ for supressing surface noise of lps.
I have had great results with the Denons, but only the stock 103, never tried the 103R.
@@ThePressingMatters The 103R is considered by all accounts I've seen, to be a much better cartridge. The stylus shape and cantilever are better. It is said to be perhaps the only cartridge you can buy for under $500 that can compete with over $1,000 cartridges. Have no idea how it is with surface noise I think the upper midrange prominence of the regular 103 has been lessened with the R version.. Grado cartridges have been viewed as a welcome relief by many who didn't like their thin sounding & treble accentuated moving coil carts. Audio Technica makes fine moving coil cartridges but their house sound is a little treble oriented also. The older Koetsu Black cartridge was warm & a little slow for a moving coil, but so good on voice & everything else midrange. There is just something about them that people fall in love with. Moving iron cartridges, I've had a few of. They're fast like moving coils, but higher output & usually track better. There is a Goldring cartridge around $600 to $700+ that is supposed to be superb. The only moving magnet cartridge that I've actually heard that really impressed me was an Audio Technica ML180 circa 1979 or something. It was their top of the line cartridge and it wasn't available in America. You had to special order it. You could only get the next one down in America; the ML 170. No slouch either I'm sure. If you had a real light tonearm the top of the line ADC cartridges from the early 1980s are supposed to be some of the best cartridges ever. There are some NOS at times on ebay
I would see if DS Audio wouldn't let you review their light beam cartridge. It is supposed to be otherworldy how it greatly lessens lp groove noise.
@@sidesup8286 I'd love to review that cartridge!
@@ThePressingMatters That would be one that I'd like to hear too. The light beam doesn't actually replace the stylus and cantilever, it just translates what the. stylus and cantilever motion picks up. The light beam replaces the magnets of an MM cartridge or the coils of an MC cartridge. The Audiophiliac here on TH-cam reviewed it a few months ago. He said it competes with other $2,700 cartridges but sounds way less like you are playing a record than even $10,000 cartridges in its quietness in the groove, its amazing way with lessening groove noise and other things. I think the one I'd really like to hear even more is their $60,000 model. There might be some models in between also. Maybe the $60,000 model would let us know exactly how good the lp really is.
If you were at that Florida Audio Expo in the room with the turntable in between the 2 big orange with black trim Focal speakers you might have heard the DS light beam cartridge. They were using it on the turntable a video shows.
The famous classical composer with a 2 syllable first name and 2 syllable last name where both names start with the same letter like the B's in Bela Bartok is:
See below.
.........Edward Elgar
also Thomas Tallis
I believe they used the second movement in Stanley Kubrick's The Shining. I think it was Karajan's version which is not as good as Reiner's. Reiner/CSO bring out the creepiness and elegance perfectly. The recording demonstrates the wonderful acoustics Orchestra Hall had originally. The resonance of the block, the richness of the viola tone and the timpani glissandi come through perfectly. The 1966 renovation removed so much plaster from the ceiling and walls to install air conditioning ducts that it ruined the acoustics.
I've heard about that unfortunate renovation. I've never been there at all. That's a shame.
I didn't realize the music was used in The Shining! Might be a good Halloween movie for this year!
What is A P?
Oh, I'm sorry, it's Analogue Productions
Scott- Great that you’re exploring these classical releases even though they won’t get as many hits as the jazz records. I have both of those in the Classic Records version. Not sure it’s worth it to me to order the AP. One of each is enough for me. Another factor is, in the classical realm I more often listen to smaller groups, chamber or solo. I find that the older I get, the more uncomfortable it is to listen to full orchestral pieces at a satisfying volume. It’s just a bit too overwhelming at times.
Thanks Eric,
Yes these videos have a small but appreciative following. I would say you are set on these given what you've told me. My system can get a bit confused with large orchestral pieces and definitely sounds better with small scale works. These recordings are legendary for performance but they are not free of distortion here and there. If you're not a completest, stay with the Classics