Repertoire: The IDEAL Ravel Orchestral Works
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 พ.ย. 2020
- Everyone loves Ravel. Everyone records Ravel. Here is my IDEAL list of all of the orchestral works, including even the short ones like the Pavane for a Dead Princess. As with most all of these IDEAL lists, the intention is to assemble a selection with no weak links, but one that also tells you who the best performers are so you can put together your own collection. This was fun, and I look forward to seeing your selections too.
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I just go through these wonderful videos, listen to of his segments, then go listen to the piece. A fantastic course.
This is the power of Ravel’s music. I once brought a friend to an RSNO concert of ballet music: suites from Swan Lake, Romeo & Juliet, Firebird and also Mother Goose. My friend is a techno-head. She loves club music. I think this might have been her first live orchestra. At the end of the Ravel she was moved to tears. Stunned.
This was a fabulous rundown. Thanks, David. You’ve given me a couple of juicy tips to investigate, especially Paray & Cluytens. I have the Martinon and Ozawa complete recordings so I didn’t think I’d need to do any more searching for a while, so thanks for that.
I absolutely adore Ravel. The Galleria issue of six of Ozawa’s recordings was my first ever CD, which I treated myself to after I graduated (I think my second was the Twin Peaks soundtrack).
I was surprised to hear you say Une Barque sur l’Ocean wasn’t really focussed on much because that’s one of my favourite pieces, ever. It’s a miracle of tonal painting. But then again, it was Ozawa’s I first heard and keep going back to.
My first exposure to Ravel (apart from the movie ‘10’) was Dutoit’s recording of Daphnis et Chloé, which a Uni friend had on cassette. I was utterly gobsmacked! I’ve since added Boulez (DG), Ozawa, Martinon and Monteux to my collection.
I find Ravel a fascinating character, the doyen of French artistic society and yet he needed to retreat to his private world of brittle fantasy. Poignant and beautiful. I don’t find him superficial because of that. He really speaks to me. He’s either giving us a glimpse of a better world or showing us the horrors of this one and what might come to pass (particularly in La Valse). In that respect I feel he is very similar to Vaughan Williams.
A thousand thanks, Dave Hurwitz, for recommending the Martinon recording of Mother Goose. It's simply exquisite. Martinon's Rhapsodie Espagnole is wonderful too. He makes the piece sumptuous and riveting throughout.
Wonderful video. Thanks! I always like when I find some of my favs among your picks.
I'm grateful for this channel because it has, and continues to, introduce me to works I wasn't aware of. To wit: Ravel's Shéhérazade. Luckily, TH-cam has a version with LSO/Abbado that I enjoy immensely.
Thanks - David for another great review and recommendation
The Cluytens box is perfect.
You're talking about the 6 disc box with Francois that has the complete orchestral and piano works? It looked like a no brainer at barely $20 so I ordered it after watching this video.
@@Don-md6wn That's the one. A total no brainer, as you say. You're in for a treat, thanks to Mr. Hurwitz!
Fabulous, David! Mind your head! You don’t want to be in ER!
Regarding the Left HandConcerto, I strongly second the Alicia De Larrocha recommendation. I love the way she played everything. In my view she was one of the greatest pianists of the 20th century.
Thank you for a very interesting video and for the priceless tam-tam moment at 21:44.
Here is my currently incomplete list of alternatives/personal “ideal” recordings:
Rapsodie Espagnole: Paray, Detroit SO (Mercury). Good momentum in the first movement, so keeps you listening!
Mother Goose: Monteux, LSO (Philips). Beautiful. Monteux tells a great fairy tale.
Daphnis et Chloé: Ansermet, OSR (Decca). Favourite combination of pacing, orchestral colour and acoustic.
Piano Concerto: Anne Queffélec (Erato). Wonderfully sensitive performance. Just as enjoyable as the usual suspects.
Concerto for the Left Hand: Andrei Gavrilov, Rattle, LSO (EMI). Ravel à la Russe!
La Valse: Dutoit, Montréal SO (Decca): spectacular sound, so you can hear all the amazing instrumental details, colours and combinations of timbres, even in the chaos at the end.
Boléro: Munch, BSO (RCA Living Stereo SACD): mainly for the crazily subjective reason that, from the very first notes, the snare drum actually sounds like one. On so many recordings there’s too much drum, not enough snare or not enough body to the sound and all you hear is an irritating one-dimensional tappity-tap.
For the rest I shall of course keep on listening. Looking forward to more videos of your "ideals"!
Dear Mr. Hurwitz
I think that in your list, Manual Roshental recordings could have a place. He was a Ravel's student. He propably knew how the composer would like his music to be played.
Sure it could have a place. This time, however, it didn't.
Interesting and enjoyable as always. Totally agree about Tzigane. I wondered what was wrong with me that I didn't enjoy it. Glad I'm not the only deficient deviant! Same for the Menuet Antique! Agree about the Ozawa Une Barque. I love Giulini's LAPO Ravel and Boulez in Berlin is great too. And Abbado's Boston Daphnis et Chloe suite and Pavane.
Just three performances I would like to mention:
*Menuet antique* (another missing one?): Haitink/RCO - Just meltingly gorgeous, like most of Haitink's French music.
*Tombeau* : Celibidache/MPO - I know you hated this disc, but everything flows so naturally, and the Forlane is positively hypnotic. Plus, I always disliked the trumpets in the Rigaudron's opening. How nice of Celi to remove them.
*Introduction and Allegro* : Martinon/CSO - The version with string quartet always sounds a bit stale and screechy to me. Those full-blooded Chicago strings are to die for, and the harp is very well placed in the mix.
Thanks for this, Dave. Loads of Ravel floating around here and your choices are as good as any! Glad to hear Boulez as the choice in the Ouverture Féerique - it was the first time I heard it with that performance and I wondered where it had been all my life...
As a sort of public service thought I’d mention that if people are ok about downloading/ streaming, the very large Monteux SFSO/BSO box on RCA is available at a crazy price - less than £25 in the UK at least - on that best known online retailer whose name shall not be mentioned. So is the big C-L-U-Y-T-E-N-S box. The latter is split into two, so, if you don’t want the earlier mono recordings you can save quite a bit. I suppose £95 for the actual box isn’t as crazy as what you’d pay now for the big Szell or Munch boxes, but that’s still too much for most mortals... And if you do want the mono recordings you can get them and stream/ download some other month!
Cluytens box coupled with François is an ideal buy!
On Boléro, I love both the slow and fast ones but among the slow ones I must confess i love Celibidache. There is nothing comparable. Baudo with the Czech is also great. I would bring Giulini in for Mother Goose, Reiner for Rapsodie Espagnole, Paray for Alborada (Paray is so good when it comes to zippy « spanish » short pieces), and Boulez for Le Tombeau de Couperin (he captures the sadness of the piece) I would also include the Daphne suites with Munch in one of them. You have Martinon, Paray, Monteux, Munch, and Cluytens on the historical French side (though Cluytens was Belgian). Markevitch should have a seat somewhere but it’s tough competition I realize.
Listened to the Argerich recording. You are so right. Amazing! Our diabetic had peed on my copy, but it cleaned up nicely. 🦊
I’ve had a lot of fun listening to your picks. Thank you. Both of the concertos played by Jean-Philippe Collard with Paris Conservatory Orchestra Orchestra conducted by Loren Maazel is also a keeper. And Maazel’s real live Bolero with the Vienna Phil thrills me. I’m also a member of Club Tzigane Blech.
That's not the Paris Conservatory Orchestra, its the Orchestre National de France. But I agree that the performances are very good.
Completely agree with Bernstein for Bolero. That recording was my introduction to Ravel and it has never been topped despite many other great recordings
Daphnis et Chloë: the Boulez (NYPO Sony) has a mystery that delineates its originality. Also, produced by Andrew Kazdin, the sound is very good for that period.
That opening "Mmmmmmph!" when he starts talking about Bolero!
Mr. Hurwitz, it's always great fun and interesting to listen to your reviews. I wonder what you think about Charles Munch 'La Valse' with the Boston Symphony. Thanks for your videos. It has been a very nice company in times of confinement.
It's good, but not a favorite.
I ignored much of Ozawa's recordings for many years, but I cherished his recordings of French composers, including that Ravel set you mentioned. His performances of Faure, Poulenc, and Honegger on DG are all I had from him for a long time, and I still think they are great. Never thought as much of Ozawa's Berlioz, though.
I am sure you are tired of requests, but any suggestions for off-the-beaten path holiday fare before the season goes into full swing? Last year I discovered Bryan Kelly's Improvisations on Christmas Carols for Orchestra and Britten's St. Nicholas Cantata - not really holiday-ish, but boy was it a trip! Thanks for the videos!
I appreciate the suggestion, but in general I couldn't care less about the holidays. I may have a surprise or two in store, however...
I don't disagree; holiday can be a bit of a bad word in the music world, but especially so in our diverse, yet commercialized world. Still, I occasionally find myself going for the treacly stuff, ala Ormandy's Glorious Sound of Christmas, Cambridge Singers singing Rutter, Shaw's Many Moods, and Beecham's Messiah usually rears its ugly head, but I look forward to your surprises with child-like wonderment!!!
That's funny, I was about to comment asking about your recommendation for Le Tombeau De Couperin!
I really enjoyed this review. Of course, I love Ravel. But for once I was familiar with every one of the recordings on your "ideal" list, though several I haven't heard for many years. Several of them are favorites of mine as well, especially the Monteux and the Haitink. The Ozawa recordings I only dimly recall from the LP era. Maybe I should give them another listen. Thanks again, Dave.
My pleasure!
I love Ormandy's Ravel. He did the Bolero several times. The one that appeared on Odyssey - you can hear the tam-tam at the end. Glorious. Another one, on Sony Essential Classics, nearly the same as Odyssey issue - no tam tam!! I need to hear it! I feel cheated of 15-16 minutes of life if I do not actually hear it! (But the Essential Classics disk does have the Munch conducting Valses... So seductive! Definitely one of the best...)
Absolutely agree that Munch's Ravel was uneven. But his DAPHNIS and his VALSE NOBLES are indeed fantastic.
My favorite LA VALSE is actually Munch & Boston : NOT the polite late 1950s stereo version, rather the c. 1949 mono version, where the ending is indeed NIHILISTIC. It captures the moment of aneurism (?) when the heart of the decadent dancer (who has clearly ate, drank and b@inked too much) stops beating - and he drops dead onto the floor of the Apollo-Saal.
Great video! I'll just say that I adore Boulez' Ravel, both the 70s stuff and the 90s stuff. His "Daphnis" w/ the Berlin Phil is one of my favorite albums of all time. So beautifully paced and recorded. I also think his Piano Concertos w/ Zimerman are the best on record, but I may be in the minority there. His Ravel is icy, of course, but isn't there something inherently icy about Ravel? The coldness of perfection.
I agree with you Patrick. I think Boulez's recording is the only one I know that makes any sense of that spooky opening of the Left Hand Concerto!
Daphnis and tbe Piano Concertos with Zimmermann are among the great Ravel recordings.
Thank you for the Bernstein Bolero recommendation. Would you recommend the Warner Bernstein ORTF box set which also includes his other Ravel and non-Ravel recordings from Paris?
Absolutely!
I really enjoyed Bernard Heitink with the RCO rendition with Philips. Very good recording sonically with nice depth.
Daphnis: Munch (it's really the only one that sustains tension all the way through)
Valses: Reiner (Abbado, Deneve)
Couperin: Bour (Cluytens, Roth - sorry it's good)
Espagnole: Martinon (Muti)
La Valse: Bernstein (+ De Sabata among your beloved historical recordings)
Alborada: Paray (Celibidache)
Ma Mere: Cluytens (Skrowaczewski, Haitink)
Bolero: Just go with Ravel's... they're all the same.
Pavane: YNS (Cantelli)
I personally recommend Fournet/Tokyo Metropolitan Symphony's live recording on Fontec if you want to clearly hear the percussion at the very end of Bolero. I think the TMSO's percussion section is the best section within that orchestra and is certainly world-class.
The music itself is on the slow side by the way.
Hi Dave, please be aware that Ravel stated in interview with The Daily Telegraph that Bolero is a piece that lasts seventeen minutes. I used to announce at WRR iDallas and I could only find one in our library that was exactly 17 , which, if memory serves, was Martinon.
Skowaczewski's lasts that long too.
Dudamel/Vienna's live performance on TH-cam lasts about that long too
Ravel benefitted greatly from jazz, which shines in his piano concerto in G. I have to listen to the ballets!
I know, you are in general not a fan of historical recordings, but the most crazily-exciting La Valse I have heard is Monteux in San Francisco 1941. However, I´ll listen to Cluytens soon. Thank you for your videos!
I'm not a fan of bad sounding recordings, principally of orchestral music. Chamber music, or anything that lets you hear what the artists are doing, is another matter. I really don't care if something is "historical" or not. To be frank, I'm not even sure what that means!
@@DavesClassicalGuide Harnoncourt once said that even a few years old recording is a historical one. Perhaps this category should only be understood technically, so that mono recordings are called so. (By the way, I would love to see a video entitled ‹The 10 best mono recordings that a serious classical music lover should not miss› …)
The 1941 Monteux/SFS recording is wild, decadent, and thrilling! My new favorite!
Here's my list:
Sheherezade Overture: LSO / Abbado (DG). Weirdly, among the best of Abbado's Ravel.
Pavane for a Dead Princess: LSO/ Monteux (Decca). A hard one. I also like Munch with the Orchestre de Paris (EMI) but I couldn't locate it to check.
Rapsodie Espagnol: Cleveland / Boulez (Sony). The whole record is great.
Mother Goose ballet: Boston SO / Ozawa (DG) The Boston sound is so right for this piece.
Daphnis et Chloe: Montreal SO / Dutoit (Decca). This was the first Decca disc Dutoit and the Montreal orchestra made, back in '81.. It was a knockout sonically, and Dutoit's fluid performance reveals his complete identification with the work. (Not always the case.) Monteux is, of course, a special mandatory addition.
Tzigane: Perlman, MYPO / Mehta (DG). I don't have a lot of them. I like Accardo, but I already put Abbado in here.
Left Hand Piano Concerto: Gavrilov, LSO/Rattle (EMI) Recorded in 1978, this record showcased two young, hot musicians of the time. Whatever they subsequently went on to do, this was exciting music making. And it's always interesting to hear Russians play French music. (The original coupling was a very good Prokofiev Concerto No. 1).
Piano Concerto in G: Katchen, LSO / Kertesz (Decca). My first, and still my favorite.
Bolero: Philharmonia / Sinopoli (DG). You can hear everybody. Overwhelming at the end.
Valses Nobles et Sentimentales: Concertgebouw / Haitink (Phillips/Newton) Ideally elegant.
Une Barque sur l'ocean: Philadelphia / Muti (EMI). Red blooded and wonderful (with his equally great La Mer.)
Alborada del Gracioso: Chicago SO/ Martinon (RCA). You need a great orchestra, with personality, for this. Chicago was, and Martinon was Martinon.
La Valse: Orchestre de la Suisse Romande / Ansermet: Not the world's greatest orchestra, but Ansermet knew Ravel and knew this music, and knew how to pace it effectively.
AND
Le Tombeau de Couperin: Orpheus CO (DG) Gorgeous, and so clean. I don't know the Ormandy but my first record of this was the Philadelphia Chamber Orchestra conducted by Anshel Brusilow on RCA, which also had some great Ibert. The oboist in Le Tombeau was fabulous, and possibly the same musician who played it under Ormandy (?)
Menuet Antique: I've run out of conductors, so let's say Cleveland / Boulez from his DG period. His Alborada is a good one too: no self-indulgence there.
Thanks for (again) mentioning the silliness of the cult of "historical" or "period" instruments and performance practices. Just to mention one example, if Beethoven were alive today (and could still hear), he would have much preferred the astonishing musical capabilities of the modern piano (say, a Steinway Grand).
Bolero: Martinon (Warner)
La Valse: Monteux (Decca)
Ma mere l'oye: Boulez (Sony)
Rapsodie espagnole: Silvestri/VPO (Warner)
Daphnis et Chloe: Nezet-Seguin (BIS)
Une Barque sur l'ocean: Abbado (DG)
Alborada del gracioso: Paray (Mercury)
Le Tombeau de Couperin: Tortelier (Chandos)
Valses nobles et sentimentales: Munch (Sony)
Minuet Antique: Dutoit (Decca)
Pavane: Cantelli (Warner)
Gosh you threw me at the end! I thought where is la Tombeau etc!!?? Well I will listen to your recommendation now, thank you very much!
Being a Guerrero, I love "Alborado del Gracioso" (hope I spelled it correctly) and I agree that Paray is really good with it. Echtitude!
Too many performances and musics to talk about. Ozawa is really good in Ravel - thanks to mentioned it. Larrocha was always a favourite of mine (well, she is great - period). Bolero - a very slow version - Barenboim (and your can hear the tantan at end - not in the Karajan's version): 17:38 versus the super speedy Munch - just 13:52 (almost also 3 minutes difference between them in the shorter La Valse!). However your Bolero version is the funnier.
Any comments on the Georges Pretre Bolero? Pretre's Wiener Phil R. Strauss "Der Rosenkavalier" Suite is absolutely PERFECT, but his Bolero is horrifyingly bad. It has been a long time since I have listened to it, so my memory fails me, but either the tutti playing is excellent, with the prominent soloists sounding excruciatingly bad, or vice versa. Would be intrigued to know if my impressions are valid...
16:05 Ironically even the Perlman/Martinon Tzigane was also originally issued on a violin recital (along with Saint-Saens' Introduction & Rondo Capriccioso, Havainaise and Chausson's Poeme).
I really thought for Boléro you were going to choose ARTHUR FIEDLER!
It is really hard to come up with an Ideal list of Ravel's orchestral works that doesn't just mix and match your choices. Maybe you switch out a Cluyten's performance with a Martinon or some such. SO I'm not going to come up with a complete Ideal list but I will make a few changes and additions to yours.
First, Daphnis and Chloe - as much as I like Monteux's recording and appreciate its historical significance, I would go with Ernest Ansermet and L'Orchestre de la Suisse Romande on Eloquence. It is better played and better recorded. I'm not sure if anyone has used the wordless chorus better, either.
For Rapsodie Espangnole I'm tempted to go with Fritz Reiner and the Chicago Orchestra but that's too easy. So I'll keep the Haitink which is marvelous.
However, I'll add a real sleeper - Le Tombeau de Couperin with Reiner and the NBC Orchestra. It's included in the Reiner Great Conductors set.
I'll add Menuet Antique with Abaddo and the LSO.
And Introduction and Allegro with Osian Ellis and the Melos Ensemble (Does that count as orchestral? I also love the Hollywood String Quartet version).
Other than that, it's really hard to quibble with your choices. Maybe with the Piano Concerto (two hands) I'd go with Michelangeli or Krystian Zimmerman or Zoltan Kocsis.
But you hit the bullseye with Silvestri and the Pavane, the Martinon Mother Goose, the Cluyten La Valse,, etc. thanks for an enjoyable ride.
Thanks for the list. Yes, that was my point--you can mix and match many of these, although as I think we agree there are some really special performances in amongst them.
I find it so interesting how people prefer certain performances over others... what makes the world go 'round. I suppose. My favorite "Bolero," has always been the original Munch on vinyl. Early on. a number of years ago, I came across a German/Living Stereo pressing which was fairly beat up. Somehow, the "Bolero," made it all the way through... despite innumerable ticks, pops and crackles. Imagine my pleasure at finding the latest RCA reissue on CD. Only, something wasn't right??
I didn't like it. Why? Because the RCA Engineers sped the thing up, shaving a minute off the original's timing. Swine(s)!
After a lot of searching, I stumbled on to an earlier CD version. The one with the Butterfly: "Papillon." And the correct timing.
Munch recorded Bolero twice for RCA. Discogs lists the timing of the 1958 release, 13:49; the 1963 release, 14:57. My guess is you have both recordings. I also prefer the longer version.
Call me a heretic, but I like a relatively (!) slow La Valse, with Viennese swing (as Ravel himself writes: "Mouvement de Valse viennoise"!). To be clearer, I think I would actually like La Valse be played like Bernstein does Mahler scherzos (that is very well, even though Bernstein's La Valse with the Orchestre National de France isn't really Viennese). I think it's because I listen to every critique of the old Austro-German order through Mahlerian and Second-Viennese-School ears. Any worthy Vienna Phil recordings to recommend me?
Speaking of the Vienna Phil and nuclear bombs falling over Vienna while waltzing, wouldn't be a great idea if after the whole program of the New Year's Day concert (that is, including the Blue Danube and Radetzky March) to lock the audience in, and do La Valse! It would send them nuts, I love it so much, and having this televised internationally? It's too great an opportunity to be missed
Ravel is top 3 for me. My intro was comparing both versions of Le Tombeau in grad school...then I fell in love with pretty much everything else. My sleeper disc is Sir Neville Marriner / Academy. Its a stunner.
I love the original piano version of Valses nobles. I think it's a masterpiece. I also think it comes off much worse as an orchestra piece. There is no orchestra that can inflect the dynamics and rhythm the way Samson Francois does. The piece is just so subtle and elusive. I think Une barque sur l'ocean is the same way. On the other hand, L'alborada is just as good if not better for orchestra. It takes an earth-shattering piano virtuoso to do justice to L'alborada - like Dinu Lipatti.
Or Sviatoslav Richter
Hi! Can u please recommend some good recordings of Ravel's Un Barque sur l'ocean? ( orchestrated version )
I just did.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Sorry, I was in a bit of a hurry.......dont mind. 😅
Curious that the Ravel orchestration of the Schumann "Carneval" has not achieved anywhere near the popularity of the Moussorgsky-Ravel Pictures / Tableau. Thoughts, anyone?
It's not that interesting, it was already a repertory staple among pianists rather than a novelty like the Mussorgskyk, and Carnival does not suggest orchestration in the same way that Mussogsky's "Pictures" does.
I'm quite picky about timbre when it comes to music, so it's a pity that Cluytens replaced a crotale with a glockenspiel in his Ravel recordings. However, I couldn't find a ending as destructive and cathartic as his, even though I tried to find a substitute. So I can't help but return to his recordings.
BTW, I prefer his recording with Philharmonia Orchestra, because it sounds more natural and more French to me. Of course, it's also good that the crotale part played by glockenspiel is not too prominent compared to the recording from 1961.
I thought you might have included Charles Dutoit and the Montreal Symphony in one of the works
I discussed his versions in other vidoes--aside from Daphnis, I'm not impressed.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Each to his own, I guess. Having said that, I did agree with a number of your choices. I happen to like most of Fritz Reiner's Ravel, too. Maybe they're discussed elsewhere.
Did you mention Le Tombeau Couperin? Maybe I missed it in the video. I guess it’s only an orchestration of a piano piece, but still a great piece of music. Would love to know your recommendation?
I did mention it--at the end. I had forgotten it but I amended the video. I recommended Ormandy.
Roth/LSO is a recent recording of Rapsodie espagnole, La Mer, etc. It's as dead as can be, even with modern instruments.
I saw the BSO do pavane for a dead princess at tanglewood in 2013 and the hornist cracked the solo terribly
It happens.
Celibidache 17 hours. LOL
“That moron”. is I suspect Norrington, positively the worst conductor of modern times who has done a great job of trying to destroy the pleasure of listening to great music. My introduction to Ravel’s orchestral works was an EMI recording of Karajan with the Orchestra de Paris. Still have the greatest affection for his interpretations and the playing is wonderful.
The main theme of the Forlane from Tombeau is the most annoying piece of music ever written. That first dissonance makes one involuntarily disgorge the contents of his / her stomach, so where is the "elegant Frenchness" / hommage in that??? Yuck city....^^
Does that mean you don't like it?
@@DavesClassicalGuide : It is possible one could reach that conclusion...
I love it. Ravel's harmonic sense was perfect. How do you like Schoenberg?
Ravel: as superficial as possible...but in a good way. No wonder music historians attach him as a footnote to Debussy.
Do they?
@@DavesClassicalGuide I had to unlearn what little I learned and find out the sonorous world of Ravel for my darned self!
@@mrplatink Well, I'm glad that you did!
@@DavesClassicalGuide and I'm glad for all you do!
Bolero is far worse than Tzigane. Period. Hehehe... Is there any bias coming from this former violinist? Perhaps.>>>
For those who care about such things, it needs to be noted that Ravel's viola writing is awfully finicky. The effort to execute exactly what is written far outstrips the aural result. Since the music itself does not appeal to your humble correspondent at all, seeing a Ravel work on the music stand leads to demoralization...