The review that helped me decide to purchase my lcdx a few month's back. Wave is hands down one of the best reviewers out there. I really hope his channel blow up because he really deserves it. The time and effort he puts into his videos is so informative and helpful. Wave , you fucking rock man
You are quickly becoming one of my favorite audiophile reviewers for your detailed analysis, clear opinions and focus upper end of the market without excluding this tier ($1K - $2K). So many other reviewers kinda skip this range in favor of cheaper and end game gear. Keep up the great work!
Thanks! I have not set out to be a reviewer who focuses on any particular price point. What has been sent to me a lot is the $1K+ gear. There's a bit of recency bias because of that, but I have some entry level headphone reviews I'm working on too. I think it's important to be aware of what's happening throughout the entire market range though to have context. Does a given unit make sense at its price point is an important question and one that can't meaningfully be answered without knowledge of the broader market context. Thanks again for watching!
@@wavetheorysound understood and agreed. BTW, I do very much enjoy your content at other price points and assume it helps many with their purchase decisions like your $1K - $2K coverage is helping me.
You are on a tear with all these uploads, glad to see serious comparisons. Just got the arya v2. Looking to complement it with a verite closed. Your channel is nice for someone looking to build a collection rather than buy the next new thing.
@@thunderstar254 I bought them around 5 months ago on ebay. Hard to come by these days. Their soundstage, bass extension and slight reverb really make them great for movies, netflix and gaming over other cans. Keep on the lookout - some might pop up for sale occasionally. Never selling these - permanent part of my collection.
Wow! One of the most serious and detailed headphone reviews I've ever seen! Tank's a lot man, this is really helpful. In this category (1000-2000 dollars headphones) making decision is absolutely tricky and you did a great job here to help everyone who want information for making right decision.
Thanks for this, pretty comprehensive! The one thing that keeps hitting me is how many people parrot the BIG HEAVY LCDs, because I have the LCD-2 and LCD-X, as well as the Senn 820, and some lightweight Grados. Yes, they are ‘heavier’, but to me this is massively exaggerated because I can wear them for hours and hardly notice, and I also tend to equate the tank-like build with quality. They’re my favorites by a mile.
IMHO, the 2021 LCD-X paired with the Topping E50/L50 combo is about the best performance you're going to find for less than $2K invested. Dekoni Elite Sheepskin pads just enhance the comfort and sound that little bit more.
Good review. I think you captured the essence of each headphone well. I have an opinion that the lcd-X 2021 is a good gatekeeper and that above that price headphones should perform better in most regards. So I’d argue most of the dynamic driver headphones are not worth more than $1200 due to a lack of bass performance, lack of dynamics, etc. in that case only the Arya and fostex deserve to be more than $1200. All the others are too focused on a limited range of music or audio performance. Which would be awesome for fans of those other headphones to get ‘em cheaper.
Killer roundup, I've been looking forward to this one for a while and was very excited when I saw it was almost an hour, you took the time to fill us in on all the important sound elements for each player and did a great job of letting people know the relative strengths and weaknesses of each set of cans. Great job, I really appreciate your thoroughness and consistency. Also, I like the song names for rankings, paints a clear picture while being self aware/nerdy enough to inject some humor too.
Somehow I missed this earlier. VERY well done and presented. Thanks for the time and effort. Interesting that for my library I have been considering both the Auteur and the Arya, which is apparently now even better. 😉
On the used market the OG Clears are a bargain I got mine for a steal so price to performance is incredible. Fostex th900 mk1/mk2 prices come up relatively low as well from time to time. HD800s are still overpriced as is the remaining units on this list.
I was really disappointed with the OG Clear when I bought it (I own the LCD-X) and I was driving it off a Chord Mojo. It just sounded confused where my LCD-X tore through wall-of-sound, and Clear lacked bass punch. I then changed DAC to an almost written off Audio-Gd NFB 15.1 (Wolfson) and that completely upended its performance. I would classify the OG Clear as amp-picky. They're now my favourite over the LCD-X (mostly for comfort reasons, but also treble resolution). I do find they need just a bit more power than the LCD-X as well, but not so much that portability becomes an issue.
Excellent work and really useful information. Tossing up between HD800s and Arya Stealth. Difficult to find a place to hear them side to side. If you do the closed back comparison don't forget the Denon D9200, love mine.
I have the TH909 (and have heard it side-by-side with an unmodded TH900) and i'll add my own observations to what you've said throughout the video. Sound Signature: As you said it is V-shaped like the entire Fostex Biodyna line, however it is a lot more moderate/ refined that the TH900; it has toned down bass that is less boomy and more tight and punchy (but still very well extended), the treble is also toned down (although still can be a bit peaky) and the mids to upper-mids are a lot less recessed to the point that it MAY sound a tiny bit mid-forward (making it surprisingly good for female vocals). For that reason I think it gets closer to the Arya SE's tonality than the TH900. Amping: As amp-picky as you state it is. It can sound wide, bassy, and smooth on some amps, and shrill, thin, and narrow on others. However they are unlike any other headphone in the video in that a more expensive, higher-end amp will NOT necessarily be better with them. They seem to care more about the sonic character of the amp than raw power or quality. Very odd headphones. I've found amps with a warm tilt and a slight bass boost pair well with them. Assume everything I say is with a good amp pairing. Soundstage: Agree with what you said, but i'll add that it is notably more open and wider than the TH900. It reminds me of my Beyer T1 Gen 2. Still significantly behind the Aryas though. Imaging and Separation: On the same level as the OG Clears, but it has better separation because of the bigger soundstage. Resolution: I think it's very slightly behind the OG Clear in terms of transients (like 5-10%) which does make it seem less resolving, but otherwise it's good for the price range. Not as good as the Arya. Macrodynamics: Definitely "Clubbed to Death". Timbre: Agreed, but it's better than the TH900 because the mids are less recessed. It does upper mid-range/ lower treble timbre very well. Bass is also well textured. Hope this helps.
@@Fabthelaw Best amp pairing I've heard is the Xduoo TA-10R with the stock tube switched out for a Genalex Gold Lion. It also sounds pretty good on the Burson Soloist 3XP if you can afford one. I found they like amps that provide a bit of a warm tilt, and presumably also a good amount of current output since they are very low impedance.
Very nice work, as always. A couple things - I heard repeatedly how certain headphones can be "amp picky" but there were no specifics given beyond that, so I really don't know what you mean exactly. Second, it seems to me that if you don't have the chain to support these things, and by that I am guessing gear well beyond midrange, there is really no point in chasing any of these, as you are spending money just to spend money. These days, that is an increasingly bad option. So for me, the point is moot. I choose NONE of these. Now, should the circumstances change and I can improve my chain, I would go for either the ZMF Auteur or the Arya, depending on what I end up with. And I would want to audition them first, but that doesn't seem to be possible anymore. But oh well, this is great info and I love how it was presented. Please continue this great work.
Thanks for the kind words. You are asking a great question about amp picky-ness. It is a hard thing to pin down. An analogy is describing a person as a picky eater. In general it just means that they only enjoy a relatively small number or types of foods. But each picky eater is different in what they do or don't like. It also takes a lot of time and experience to figure out what an individual picky eater does or does not like. Headphones are similar. For me as a reviewer to say "they are amp picky" in general means that their sonic profile or behavior appreciably changes in terms of desirability on different amps. But, each one does it differently. It's hard to describe what exactly amp picky means for each unit as we (meaning reviewers) often have them for limited amounts of time and a finite number of amps to try them on. I unpacked a little bit of Clear MG's pickiness in my review of it. The Fostex TH900 series has a reputation for swinging wildly with amps. I've heard that too both in terms of midrange timbre and treble sharpness. Clear as mud? I may give some thought into fleshing this idea out more in a future video.
@@wavetheorysound Clear as mud? As clear as mud can be, Sir! I completely understand where you are coming from. Frankly, I feel that a follow-on episode regarding amp/headphone pairing would be very well received. And this covers every end of the spectrum. Just because you have a $10,000 dollar amp and a $7,000 dollar set of headphones, there is no guarantee they will make a good pairing. Expensive doesn't always mean good sound and budget doesn't always mean poor sound. Seems like it's more about synergy and playing to one another's strengths. So, should you decide to take that on, I for one would certainly support that decision! :-)
Good video. If you get the OG Clear in the US (and I think CAN) the $990 deal changes the equation quite a bit, but it's unclear (dumb joke) how long they'll continue to sell those since they're supposed to be discontinued at some point. They're very cheap used too because people are buying them for $990 and them selling them. Also I think your used HE1000 recommendation is valid but some people are hesitant to buy headphones on the used market. I'm fine with buying used from a reputable seller or someone I know but how do I know (from pics) some random person didn't run a 5K and then come home to jam out to some music without showering. It gives me the heebie jeebies to some extent.
When it comes to EQ (Harman) LCD-X 2021 is the only one of these that does it well. HD800s, Clear(s), Arya at least get worse with a bass shelf. The best all-rounder in my opinion by far. I like all four and would happily recommend them for different use cases and tastes, but the LCD-X just does everything well. The weight/comfort is good for me, but definitely some would have issues. Also the soundstage, I find the Arya to be fantastic in that regard, but I'm not a fan of the HD800s, which has a big soundstage, but vocalist doubling and an inability to sound intimate. With certain genres the soundstage is the biggest problem with them for me. The Arya, without EQ at least has some timbre issues in the highs, but the bass can sound really weird. Drums can sound wooden, extremely snappy and light in an unnatural way.
But should a 1200 dollar product need so much EQ to perform at that price point, not to mention so many people complain about one LCD-x sounding different from the next. So far as I know this is an issue with their whole line up, or is the 2021 version different?
I never tried harman on lcd-x 2021 because on everything else I tried it on I never liked it. Randomly tried it because someone said it makes them sound closer to summit fi headphones, holy shit I was blown away when I tried it.
@@chungang7037 2021 version is different. They don't need EQ to sound good. They also have less variation, but there apparently still is some in the treble range. That being said, I'm on the exact opposite end. I love EQ, and I expect headphones at these price-ranges to deal very well with it.
@@chungang7037 I’ve never met a headphone I’ve never EQed and I own even $3-$4k headphones. I always add a slight v-shape to everything I own. Where I take issue is expensive headphones that just collapse on EQing like my Utopias that start rattling in the bass. The LCD-X however I can turn into a subwoofer on my head if I want to with little to no distortion. That should be the main feature I’m paying good money for.
Thanks for a great roundup. I have a Focal Clear Professional which I am enjoying and was looking at getting the LCD-X to try out planar. But after watching your round-up, it sounds like the LCD-X is going to be sonically very similar to Focal Clear for my 2nd set of headphones. I would like to experience a bigger soundstage for orchestral music but the HD800s and Arya Stealth are too much money for me, here in Australia. I like tube amps so maybe I should be looking for preowned HD800s.
Check out manufacturer refurbished units. I just picked up the 800s for $1100 USD directly from Sennheiser and they were indistinguishable from new. I have actually been testing them against the Clear MG, which I got open box for $999. The value for what you get with the Clear is strong (case, XLR cable, incredible build quality, etc.) but the 800s are the winners for me, and they are more comfortable IMO.
Hello. I want to express my opinion about your words that the LCD-X2021 headphones are not demanding of the source power. I responsibly declare that the quality of their sound directly depends on the power. These headphones can only show their maximum with a high level of output power! I think that the placement of positions in your comparative table should be different.
Great video, great comparison of the headphones and explained in an understandable way. I am currently planning to take my setup to the next level. I will use either the Violectric V380 v1 or Bifrost 2/64 + Violectric V222 as my amp/dac. My favourite headphone for the new combo was the Arya SE. They are currently available for 1200. Your reference to the HE1000v2 makes me wonder... They are currently available for 1999. How much better is the HE1000v2 in your eyes? Is the surcharge worth it? Thank you.
I really enjoyed this review but in all honesty listening to this video on my $1200-1800 headphones was a bit of a drag. I can see some room correction gear but man you need a decent mike really badly. I will give it to you about the Clear MG's..I found them to be a bit shouty out of the box for sure. Bit of EQ and I am one very happy owner. I came here looking for a complimetary pair and I think that the Arya would be so great as they both do things greatly that the other doesn''t..Anyway I really enjoyed the video and I hope my criticism is taken as constructive as it was meant. Cheers
Thanks for the feedback. On these Powerpoint-made videos, most of the fault on the audio is from PPT itself. I use a pretty good sounding mic but PPT does a bunch of compression that makes it sound muffled. My newer on-camera videos sound much better as I use a decent Rode lav mic. I have experimented with recording the audio track for these PPT videos separately, importing the audio clips, and then timing them up with the screen animations. In a word, wow, is that a lot of work. Sure it sounds better, but nearly doubles the production time. So, I've said 'they can hear what I'm saying' and left it at that. Good luck finding your complementary headphone! If you go with Arya, you may very well find it flips the script and becomes your daily driver.
Just get a røde NT-1. It's an insane sound for the price and value proposition. I have gefells and Neumann's and the NT-1 is sometimes better on certain voices.
For a headphone and audio-focused channel you might want to consider a better microphone. The sound quality of this video is not very good on good headphones.
I know it's a little late, but is there any particular reason (other than possibly never hearing it) that you omitted the $1200 ZMF Aeolus from this comparison? I love mine. It would probably be the warmest of any of the headphones here except maybe the Fostex, though I suspect the LCD-X might be close. I'm planning a new headphone purchase in a few weeks and have pretty much settled on the Arya Stealth, which is now $1300 (a significant price drop for me since I'm retired on a fixed income). Since I intend the Arya to replace my old (and immersively wide) Sennheiser HD700 as my go to Blu-ray/streaming TV headphones, its soundstage and imaging are hard to resist. Since I like warm headphones, I'd probably lean to the LCD-X if I could only have one set, but the warm Aeolus is my daily driver for music, which I think makes the Arya a better complementary pair. I know the HE1000 V2 has now been slashed to $2K new, but that's still well beyond my budget right now and I simply won't consider buying used.
A couple reasons: 1) I haven't heard it or anything close enough to it like I have in the case of the Lawton TH900 compared to the 909, 2) This was already a large grouping. I chose these 7 because they appear to me to be the 'heavy-hitters' in the price range, ie well-known models from the brands that are big players in the market. It is my perception the Aeolous doesn't quite carry as much clout as these. That view is of course arguable, but sometimes these decisions have to be made. Fear not! Since the market is ever-changing there will be updates to this video. For example, the new Audeze MM-500 needs to be added, as does the Auteur Classic. It's like climbing a sand dune, lol.
W, My BEST headphones did not cost me $800 or more, only approx. $350. They have the typical "Zeos House Sound" and are not 'pretty'. Pads, tuning, comfort and a sweet cable is all they are. More round table videos..! Best, D.
Budget is about the same as the gsx mini which I was considering initially, but recently am leaning towards the audio gd master 19. However, I can't audition the master 19.
They are all technically superior to the HD600 in many aspects. I think the HD600/650/6XX still have superior midrange timbre than any of these, though the Arya SE, Auteur, and HD800 S are not far behind. The tricky part is none of these are really a direct upgrade to the HD600. Even in August 2022, it's unclear that such a thing exists.
It's interesting you find Arya to have bigger stage than hd800s. I haven't heard them yet but so far from my Ananda experience, i'm not that impressed with the soundstage. The depth and the height is there but width and distance is just not. They sound either inside of my head or just in front of my eyes. Especially the vocals can get very intimate. Even switching to my closed back DT 770 the sound immediately became more distant and more laterally spread out. I wonder how much soundstage improvement there is from Ananda to Arya or Edition XS. From a frequency response standpoint i think HD800S is the best except it needs a bit more bass eq than the others. Perks of trying to buy without auditioning lol. I've mastered the fr graphs. How close XS to Arya ?
I used the Ananda and now Arya Stealth - As far as i can tell the Anandas have just a different presentation of Soundstage - they have a bit more "height" but are also therefore sounding a bit "thin" - like you need to put the volume quite a bit up to hear all good details and good bass. The Arya SE are more forward - but have more layered Soundstage and better Imaging than even the Ananda. They are both great headphones and i really much enjoyed the huge Soundstage of Ananda - but i prefer the Arya for better presentation/detail/imaging/bass. *my opinion
@@musicxxa6678 also tested the XS against Ananda and i preferred the Ananda a bit more, because of the Sound presentation and Detail. But they are quite close. If i needed to rate them it would be XS (7/10) Ananda (8.5/10) Arya (9.7/10)
Hey dude. Arya stealth and 800s are on special for $1299. At those prices would you still jump to the he1000 v2 for $1999? Also is the diana v2 worth the extra dough? I am a soundstage and bass freak so it seems like the Ayra is the best for the dough.
Yeah...it's a tough call. What is your source gear? If you're running an amp in the $800 or less range prob Arya. If you're using a $1k+ amp, prob Hek.
@@shroud1390 Don't know much about that one and their product page doesn't list power output. The hek is a slightly harder drive than the Arya. It's not ridiculous, but is more difficult than Arya se. So if you know the power output is high, hek might be fine(?). I just can't say for sure having never heard the pairing.
@@wavetheorysound btw i have a liquid platinum that iirc is pretty powerful. I also have a speaker amp i was using before the hafler. It is a 200w class a. I ditched it when the summer came…
Sennheiser 2 pin cables fit fostex connections when reversed (turning so letters look to the inside) and if you cut the neck of the cable to the first knob. I tried it with an aftermarket balanced cable and now it fits both my fostex TH610 and Sennheiser HD600. It may be too much hassle for some but after checking fostex cable prices, it is not. I still can't help but giggle thinking you struggle with the Clear MG :D
I still can't help but giggle thinking you struggle with the Clear MG :D - My patience with timbral issues obeys the inverse square law with increasing price, lol.
Guys help! I need recomendations about wich is the best imaging and bigger soundstage, but the like "focal and audeze bubble presentation" that Wave describes.
Thank you for the sum up. Just to note that this is US centric, of course, and depending on one's region pricing, relative cost and selection may significant differ. For example I can get new HD800S for 1249 euro including 24% tax from the official distributor in my country.. On the other hand US made HPs tend to be much more expensive over here.
I don't know why Sennheiser sells these for $1960(tax included) in my country. It also doesn't have 4.4mm bal cable inside. ''Special'' packaging and ''special'' price for my country. We also earn like 1/10 compared to countries like US/DE.
Many (not all) of the headphones $3K+ get increasingly better at the micro-level stuff; microdetail retrieval, microdynamics, etc. What often sets them apart is the ability to pull out those tiny subtleties while a bunch of bigger and louder stuff is happening. That may sound small (it is called "micro" afterall ;p) but goes a LONG way toward being more convincingly real. We hear those micro sounds in real life enough that they influence the sonic patterns our brains perceive. The ability to reproduce those gets the listening experience closer and closer to real.
@@wavetheorysound thanks so much for your detailed response dude. You’re my favourite reviewer on TH-cam so it’s much appreciated. I currently have the clear and I’m just deciding whether I want to upgrade to something right at the top or not.
@@wavetheorysound I'm ok but unless it's barely used, I worry about the longevity because of the build quality (and no warranty) but I'll definitely try that out, thanks!
To me this must be the most confusing headphones review I've seen on YT. He has managed to say the complete opposite of what other reviewers are generally saying about some of these headphones, particularly clear mg, and I feel I can't trust him, or alternatively can't trust the rest of the reviewers, which I guess means I simply can't trust anyone. Surely subjectivity comes in here, as well as experience, but the reviewers do their best of putting forward objective leaning reviews of these headphones to inform the consumers, and when they differ so much, then it's just confusing. Anyways, this is not meant to shoot down the reviewer or anything, and I appreciate the effort he has put into the review. I did learn something tho, that there is little point in listening to what reviewers on youtube have to say about these headphones, that is valuable info as well😂
I understand your confusion. The best bet is to find the small number of reviewers who either consistently align with your tastes or consistently and predictably don't align with your tastes in ways you can meaningfully compare with your own. Thanks for watching and commenting!
Aargh. I looked these up when I put the video together and saw a couple places had $1799 prices listed. I just checked upon seeing this comment and yeah, all bumped up to $1999. Grrrr.
Fostex TH909 & TH900Mk2 IMO are overpriced (in term of overall sound quality). I demo these 2 with my own Fostex HP-A8C Dac/Amp and I was not impressed.
I found this video to be clickbaity. The thumbnail displays a headphone that's not even in the review... Why even have the TH-909 in the images if you're not comparing it??? That's like me doing a review of different hamburgers and I include a hot dog...
Sorry but this isn't true, headphone technology has been stagnant for years. You may like a $2000 headphone more than an $800 but it doesn't make it better. A lot of people like their HD650 better than $6000 Susvara
I bet people that love the hd650 would majority like the 490 pros, I have both, and they sound SIGNIFICANTLY more alive. Also they feel even more solid and are WAY more comfortable. Image separation is the biggest improvement and was similar or better than my LCD-X with the sound, with the bass coming in at #2
Darn, between each segment, you say some first thing and your mic auto sensitivity doesn't adjust and it comes off as VERY LOUD and blows my ears off, it has happened three times now, I really need to turn you down... Very annoying.
![The Complete Story of Destiny! From origins to Shadowkeep [Timeline and Lore explained]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/9mbDXvDNqTU/mqdefault.jpg)
Great exhaustive comparison! Just something to note. Red on blue is an absolute no no and can cause a lot of strain to look at (chromosteropsis)
Facts
The review that helped me decide to purchase my lcdx a few month's back. Wave is hands down one of the best reviewers out there. I really hope his channel blow up because he really deserves it. The time and effort he puts into his videos is so informative and helpful. Wave , you fucking rock man
You are quickly becoming one of my favorite audiophile reviewers for your detailed analysis, clear opinions and focus upper end of the market without excluding this tier ($1K - $2K). So many other reviewers kinda skip this range in favor of cheaper and end game gear. Keep up the great work!
Thanks! I have not set out to be a reviewer who focuses on any particular price point. What has been sent to me a lot is the $1K+ gear. There's a bit of recency bias because of that, but I have some entry level headphone reviews I'm working on too. I think it's important to be aware of what's happening throughout the entire market range though to have context. Does a given unit make sense at its price point is an important question and one that can't meaningfully be answered without knowledge of the broader market context. Thanks again for watching!
@@wavetheorysound understood and agreed. BTW, I do very much enjoy your content at other price points and assume it helps many with their purchase decisions like your $1K - $2K coverage is helping me.
You are on a tear with all these uploads, glad to see serious comparisons. Just got the arya v2. Looking to complement it with a verite closed. Your channel is nice for someone looking to build a collection rather than buy the next new thing.
Where did you get the Arya? I really want them badly but can't find V2's 😕
@@thunderstar254 I bought them around 5 months ago on ebay. Hard to come by these days. Their soundstage, bass extension and slight reverb really make them great for movies, netflix and gaming over other cans. Keep on the lookout - some might pop up for sale occasionally. Never selling these - permanent part of my collection.
@@elba_magellan Wow I'm glad to hear that, and thanks for the advice! No worries, I hope you enjoy them for a very long time 🙂
Great Video! Hopefully you can get to hear the LCD XC soon and make the Closed back equivalent video.
That's the benchmark for HP comparison review, well done!
This is the most helpful and thoughtful headphone review out there. I've an LCD-x and heavily auditioned Arya. The opinion here makes perfect sense.
Wow! One of the most serious and detailed headphone reviews I've ever seen! Tank's a lot man, this is really helpful. In this category (1000-2000 dollars headphones) making decision is absolutely tricky and you did a great job here to help everyone who want information for making right decision.
Thanks for this, pretty comprehensive! The one thing that keeps hitting me is how many people parrot the BIG HEAVY LCDs, because I have the LCD-2 and LCD-X, as well as the Senn 820, and some lightweight Grados. Yes, they are ‘heavier’, but to me this is massively exaggerated because I can wear them for hours and hardly notice, and I also tend to equate the tank-like build with quality. They’re my favorites by a mile.
Most of the time I’m wearing headphones I’m laying in bed anyway so weight has never been a factor for me.
IMHO, the 2021 LCD-X paired with the Topping E50/L50 combo is about the best performance you're going to find for less than $2K invested. Dekoni Elite Sheepskin pads just enhance the comfort and sound that little bit more.
What a great video! Informative, useful and entertaining! Many of my findings on these headphones align with yours.
Good review. I think you captured the essence of each headphone well. I have an opinion that the lcd-X 2021 is a good gatekeeper and that above that price headphones should perform better in most regards. So I’d argue most of the dynamic driver headphones are not worth more than $1200 due to a lack of bass performance, lack of dynamics, etc. in that case only the Arya and fostex deserve to be more than $1200. All the others are too focused on a limited range of music or audio performance. Which would be awesome for fans of those other headphones to get ‘em cheaper.
Killer roundup, I've been looking forward to this one for a while and was very excited when I saw it was almost an hour, you took the time to fill us in on all the important sound elements for each player and did a great job of letting people know the relative strengths and weaknesses of each set of cans.
Great job, I really appreciate your thoroughness and consistency. Also, I like the song names for rankings, paints a clear picture while being self aware/nerdy enough to inject some humor too.
Somehow I missed this earlier. VERY well done and presented. Thanks for the time and effort. Interesting that for my library I have been considering both the Auteur and the Arya, which is apparently now even better. 😉
Nice idea about soundstage graph!
On the used market the OG Clears are a bargain I got mine for a steal so price to performance is incredible. Fostex th900 mk1/mk2 prices come up relatively low as well from time to time. HD800s are still overpriced as is the remaining units on this list.
Where is a good place to buy these used?
I was really disappointed with the OG Clear when I bought it (I own the LCD-X) and I was driving it off a Chord Mojo. It just sounded confused where my LCD-X tore through wall-of-sound, and Clear lacked bass punch. I then changed DAC to an almost written off Audio-Gd NFB 15.1 (Wolfson) and that completely upended its performance. I would classify the OG Clear as amp-picky. They're now my favourite over the LCD-X (mostly for comfort reasons, but also treble resolution).
I do find they need just a bit more power than the LCD-X as well, but not so much that portability becomes an issue.
Good roundup with relevant models. The Arya Stealth has had my interest for a while, as a complement to my ZMF Auteur.
Excellent work and really useful information. Tossing up between HD800s and Arya Stealth. Difficult to find a place to hear them side to side. If you do the closed back comparison don't forget the Denon D9200, love mine.
Love the setup and category breaking down style . Unique nice !
I have the TH909 (and have heard it side-by-side with an unmodded TH900) and i'll add my own observations to what you've said throughout the video.
Sound Signature: As you said it is V-shaped like the entire Fostex Biodyna line, however it is a lot more moderate/ refined that the TH900; it has toned down bass that is less boomy and more tight and punchy (but still very well extended), the treble is also toned down (although still can be a bit peaky) and the mids to upper-mids are a lot less recessed to the point that it MAY sound a tiny bit mid-forward (making it surprisingly good for female vocals). For that reason I think it gets closer to the Arya SE's tonality than the TH900.
Amping: As amp-picky as you state it is. It can sound wide, bassy, and smooth on some amps, and shrill, thin, and narrow on others. However they are unlike any other headphone in the video in that a more expensive, higher-end amp will NOT necessarily be better with them. They seem to care more about the sonic character of the amp than raw power or quality. Very odd headphones. I've found amps with a warm tilt and a slight bass boost pair well with them. Assume everything I say is with a good amp pairing.
Soundstage: Agree with what you said, but i'll add that it is notably more open and wider than the TH900. It reminds me of my Beyer T1 Gen 2. Still significantly behind the Aryas though.
Imaging and Separation: On the same level as the OG Clears, but it has better separation because of the bigger soundstage.
Resolution: I think it's very slightly behind the OG Clear in terms of transients (like 5-10%) which does make it seem less resolving, but otherwise it's good for the price range. Not as good as the Arya.
Macrodynamics: Definitely "Clubbed to Death".
Timbre: Agreed, but it's better than the TH900 because the mids are less recessed. It does upper mid-range/ lower treble timbre very well. Bass is also well textured.
Hope this helps.
Very helpful. Thanks!
Any amps you'd recommend then for a good pairing with the TH909 ?
@@Fabthelaw Best amp pairing I've heard is the Xduoo TA-10R with the stock tube switched out for a Genalex Gold Lion. It also sounds pretty good on the Burson Soloist 3XP if you can afford one. I found they like amps that provide a bit of a warm tilt, and presumably also a good amount of current output since they are very low impedance.
Very nice work, as always. A couple things - I heard repeatedly how certain headphones can be "amp picky" but there were no specifics given beyond that, so I really don't know what you mean exactly. Second, it seems to me that if you don't have the chain to support these things, and by that I am guessing gear well beyond midrange, there is really no point in chasing any of these, as you are spending money just to spend money. These days, that is an increasingly bad option. So for me, the point is moot. I choose NONE of these.
Now, should the circumstances change and I can improve my chain, I would go for either the ZMF Auteur or the Arya, depending on what I end up with. And I would want to audition them first, but that doesn't seem to be possible anymore. But oh well, this is great info and I love how it was presented. Please continue this great work.
Thanks for the kind words. You are asking a great question about amp picky-ness. It is a hard thing to pin down. An analogy is describing a person as a picky eater. In general it just means that they only enjoy a relatively small number or types of foods. But each picky eater is different in what they do or don't like. It also takes a lot of time and experience to figure out what an individual picky eater does or does not like. Headphones are similar. For me as a reviewer to say "they are amp picky" in general means that their sonic profile or behavior appreciably changes in terms of desirability on different amps. But, each one does it differently. It's hard to describe what exactly amp picky means for each unit as we (meaning reviewers) often have them for limited amounts of time and a finite number of amps to try them on. I unpacked a little bit of Clear MG's pickiness in my review of it. The Fostex TH900 series has a reputation for swinging wildly with amps. I've heard that too both in terms of midrange timbre and treble sharpness. Clear as mud? I may give some thought into fleshing this idea out more in a future video.
@@wavetheorysound Clear as mud? As clear as mud can be, Sir! I completely understand where you are coming from. Frankly, I feel that a follow-on episode regarding amp/headphone pairing would be very well received. And this covers every end of the spectrum. Just because you have a $10,000 dollar amp and a $7,000 dollar set of headphones, there is no guarantee they will make a good pairing. Expensive doesn't always mean good sound and budget doesn't always mean poor sound. Seems like it's more about synergy and playing to one another's strengths. So, should you decide to take that on, I for one would certainly support that decision! :-)
Good video. If you get the OG Clear in the US (and I think CAN) the $990 deal changes the equation quite a bit, but it's unclear (dumb joke) how long they'll continue to sell those since they're supposed to be discontinued at some point. They're very cheap used too because people are buying them for $990 and them selling them. Also I think your used HE1000 recommendation is valid but some people are hesitant to buy headphones on the used market. I'm fine with buying used from a reputable seller or someone I know but how do I know (from pics) some random person didn't run a 5K and then come home to jam out to some music without showering. It gives me the heebie jeebies to some extent.
Another great video. We have to figure out what YT is doing to your thumbnails though. They are being crushed into lofi blocks.
Love your video and doing this highend head to head.
Lots of work put in - appreciate you!
Exactly the review I was looking for!
Thanks for that.
When it comes to EQ (Harman) LCD-X 2021 is the only one of these that does it well. HD800s, Clear(s), Arya at least get worse with a bass shelf. The best all-rounder in my opinion by far. I like all four and would happily recommend them for different use cases and tastes, but the LCD-X just does everything well. The weight/comfort is good for me, but definitely some would have issues.
Also the soundstage, I find the Arya to be fantastic in that regard, but I'm not a fan of the HD800s, which has a big soundstage, but vocalist doubling and an inability to sound intimate. With certain genres the soundstage is the biggest problem with them for me.
The Arya, without EQ at least has some timbre issues in the highs, but the bass can sound really weird. Drums can sound wooden, extremely snappy and light in an unnatural way.
But should a 1200 dollar product need so much EQ to perform at that price point, not to mention so many people complain about one LCD-x sounding different from the next. So far as I know this is an issue with their whole line up, or is the 2021 version different?
I never tried harman on lcd-x 2021 because on everything else I tried it on I never liked it. Randomly tried it because someone said it makes them sound closer to summit fi headphones, holy shit I was blown away when I tried it.
@@chungang7037 2021 version is different. They don't need EQ to sound good. They also have less variation, but there apparently still is some in the treble range.
That being said, I'm on the exact opposite end. I love EQ, and I expect headphones at these price-ranges to deal very well with it.
@@chungang7037 I’ve never met a headphone I’ve never EQed and I own even $3-$4k headphones. I always add a slight v-shape to everything I own. Where I take issue is expensive headphones that just collapse on EQing like my Utopias that start rattling in the bass. The LCD-X however I can turn into a subwoofer on my head if I want to with little to no distortion. That should be the main feature I’m paying good money for.
Excellent video...
I'm now tempted to get a ZMF Auteur.
Thanks for a great roundup. I have a Focal Clear Professional which I am enjoying and was looking at getting the LCD-X to try out planar. But after watching your round-up, it sounds like the LCD-X is going to be sonically very similar to Focal Clear for my 2nd set of headphones. I would like to experience a bigger soundstage for orchestral music but the HD800s and Arya Stealth are too much money for me, here in Australia. I like tube amps so maybe I should be looking for preowned HD800s.
Check out manufacturer refurbished units. I just picked up the 800s for $1100 USD directly from Sennheiser and they were indistinguishable from new. I have actually been testing them against the Clear MG, which I got open box for $999. The value for what you get with the Clear is strong (case, XLR cable, incredible build quality, etc.) but the 800s are the winners for me, and they are more comfortable IMO.
Great idea to make this video for this price range.
I don't understand when people say that arya‘s Timbre is wrong.
Excellent review. BTW, which of these reviewed would be ideal for watching films?
Hey great video, appreciate all the work. Please do a closed back comparison. 👍
That was a great review ! Love the channel
Very well done. Subscribed. Have you tried the HEDD?
Thank you! And yes: www.head-fi.org/showcase/hedd-heddphone.24445/reviews#review-26326
Interesting review, would be interesting to see if the Ananda Stealth can keep upo with these enough for you to have £1000 left over for a better amp
Hello. I want to express my opinion about your words that the LCD-X2021 headphones are not demanding of the source power. I responsibly declare that the quality of their sound directly depends on the power. These headphones can only show their maximum with a high level of output power! I think that the placement of positions in your comparative table should be different.
Great video, great comparison of the headphones and explained in an understandable way.
I am currently planning to take my setup to the next level. I will use either the Violectric V380 v1 or Bifrost 2/64 + Violectric V222 as my amp/dac.
My favourite headphone for the new combo was the Arya SE. They are currently available for 1200. Your reference to the HE1000v2 makes me wonder... They are currently available for 1999.
How much better is the HE1000v2 in your eyes? Is the surcharge worth it?
Thank you.
Thanks for a very helpful review 👍
thanks for the review
Amazing review ✌️
I really enjoyed this review but in all honesty listening to this video on my $1200-1800 headphones was a bit of a drag. I can see some room correction gear but man you need a decent mike really badly. I will give it to you about the Clear MG's..I found them to be a bit shouty out of the box for sure. Bit of EQ and I am one very happy owner. I came here looking for a complimetary pair and I think that the Arya would be so great as they both do things greatly that the other doesn''t..Anyway I really enjoyed the video and I hope my criticism is taken as constructive as it was meant. Cheers
Thanks for the feedback. On these Powerpoint-made videos, most of the fault on the audio is from PPT itself. I use a pretty good sounding mic but PPT does a bunch of compression that makes it sound muffled. My newer on-camera videos sound much better as I use a decent Rode lav mic. I have experimented with recording the audio track for these PPT videos separately, importing the audio clips, and then timing them up with the screen animations. In a word, wow, is that a lot of work. Sure it sounds better, but nearly doubles the production time. So, I've said 'they can hear what I'm saying' and left it at that. Good luck finding your complementary headphone! If you go with Arya, you may very well find it flips the script and becomes your daily driver.
Just get a røde NT-1. It's an insane sound for the price and value proposition. I have gefells and Neumann's and the NT-1 is sometimes better on certain voices.
Its time to do a update for this wave........please!!! 😂
For a headphone and audio-focused channel you might want to consider a better microphone. The sound quality of this video is not very good on good headphones.
Excellent! Very useful
I wonder how this list looks now - that is, with the price-lowering of the Arya Stealth and the advent of the Arya Organic and the HEKv2 Stealths???
For Schiit Lyr+ (stock tube for now) and Bifrost 2/64 combo, Arya or 800s? Large head, btw.
Thanks!
Almost identical to DMS pick on the headphone show
Really helpful vid thanks a lot!
What are the exceptions to headphones under 1000$ being inferior to more expensive?
The Focal Clear are now selling (in Europe at least) for 999 ..
I know it's a little late, but is there any particular reason (other than possibly never hearing it) that you omitted the $1200 ZMF Aeolus from this comparison? I love mine. It would probably be the warmest of any of the headphones here except maybe the Fostex, though I suspect the LCD-X might be close. I'm planning a new headphone purchase in a few weeks and have pretty much settled on the Arya Stealth, which is now $1300 (a significant price drop for me since I'm retired on a fixed income). Since I intend the Arya to replace my old (and immersively wide) Sennheiser HD700 as my go to Blu-ray/streaming TV headphones, its soundstage and imaging are hard to resist. Since I like warm headphones, I'd probably lean to the LCD-X if I could only have one set, but the warm Aeolus is my daily driver for music, which I think makes the Arya a better complementary pair. I know the HE1000 V2 has now been slashed to $2K new, but that's still well beyond my budget right now and I simply won't consider buying used.
A couple reasons: 1) I haven't heard it or anything close enough to it like I have in the case of the Lawton TH900 compared to the 909, 2) This was already a large grouping. I chose these 7 because they appear to me to be the 'heavy-hitters' in the price range, ie well-known models from the brands that are big players in the market. It is my perception the Aeolous doesn't quite carry as much clout as these. That view is of course arguable, but sometimes these decisions have to be made. Fear not! Since the market is ever-changing there will be updates to this video. For example, the new Audeze MM-500 needs to be added, as does the Auteur Classic. It's like climbing a sand dune, lol.
W, My BEST headphones did not cost me $800 or more, only approx. $350. They have the typical "Zeos House Sound" and are not 'pretty'. Pads, tuning, comfort and a sweet cable is all they are. More round table videos..! Best, D.
Which is the most complete?
Im really considering the 909s. What amp would you recommend? Ill be pairing it with the denafrips areas 2.
Budget? One of the best amps I've heard for my TH900 was the GS-X Mini.
Budget is about the same as the gsx mini which I was considering initially, but recently am leaning towards the audio gd master 19. However, I can't audition the master 19.
Spot on!!
so would any of these be a good upgrade from a pair of HD600s? the Clear OG sounds like a good option...
They are all technically superior to the HD600 in many aspects. I think the HD600/650/6XX still have superior midrange timbre than any of these, though the Arya SE, Auteur, and HD800 S are not far behind. The tricky part is none of these are really a direct upgrade to the HD600. Even in August 2022, it's unclear that such a thing exists.
Terrific review. Well done. I've suscribed and liked. Now sell one of these and buy a Mic.
Thanks! Audio, video, and lighting have all improved since this one.
It's interesting you find Arya to have bigger stage than hd800s. I haven't heard them yet but so far from my Ananda experience, i'm not that impressed with the soundstage. The depth and the height is there but width and distance is just not. They sound either inside of my head or just in front of my eyes. Especially the vocals can get very intimate. Even switching to my closed back DT 770 the sound immediately became more distant and more laterally spread out. I wonder how much soundstage improvement there is from Ananda to Arya or Edition XS.
From a frequency response standpoint i think HD800S is the best except it needs a bit more bass eq than the others. Perks of trying to buy without auditioning lol. I've mastered the fr graphs. How close XS to Arya ?
I used the Ananda and now Arya Stealth - As far as i can tell the Anandas have just a different presentation of Soundstage - they have a bit more "height" but are also therefore sounding a bit "thin" - like you need to put the volume quite a bit up to hear all good details and good bass. The Arya SE are more forward - but have more layered Soundstage and better Imaging than even the Ananda.
They are both great headphones and i really much enjoyed the huge Soundstage of Ananda - but i prefer the Arya for better presentation/detail/imaging/bass.
*my opinion
@@G-O-A-M Thanks for sharing your opinion. I'll get the edition xs stealth. Looks like they are more similar to stealth version of Arya.
@@musicxxa6678 also tested the XS against Ananda and i preferred the Ananda a bit more, because of the Sound presentation and Detail. But they are quite close. If i needed to rate them it would be XS (7/10) Ananda (8.5/10) Arya (9.7/10)
Hey dude. Arya stealth and 800s are on special for $1299. At those prices would you still jump to the he1000 v2 for $1999? Also is the diana v2 worth the extra dough? I am a soundstage and bass freak so it seems like the Ayra is the best for the dough.
Yeah...it's a tough call. What is your source gear? If you're running an amp in the $800 or less range prob Arya. If you're using a $1k+ amp, prob Hek.
@@wavetheorysound thanks dude for getting back to me. I have the Hafler HA-75. Its amp only form was $800. Tube hybrid.
@@shroud1390 Don't know much about that one and their product page doesn't list power output. The hek is a slightly harder drive than the Arya. It's not ridiculous, but is more difficult than Arya se. So if you know the power output is high, hek might be fine(?). I just can't say for sure having never heard the pairing.
@@wavetheorysound yeah and the manual doesnt spell it out. It just says 5v rms.
@@wavetheorysound btw i have a liquid platinum that iirc is pretty powerful. I also have a speaker amp i was using before the hafler. It is a 200w class a. I ditched it when the summer came…
Sennheiser 2 pin cables fit fostex connections when reversed (turning so letters look to the inside) and if you cut the neck of the cable to the first knob. I tried it with an aftermarket balanced cable and now it fits both my fostex TH610 and Sennheiser HD600. It may be too much hassle for some but after checking fostex cable prices, it is not.
I still can't help but giggle thinking you struggle with the Clear MG :D
I still can't help but giggle thinking you struggle with the Clear MG :D - My patience with timbral issues obeys the inverse square law with increasing price, lol.
@@wavetheorysound fair enough :)
Fostex beats lcd-4 for bass resolution n detail?
Aryas Timbre is realistic
I hate all focals had the clear and MG they clip with high Volumes. For that price epic fail. lol My TH900 go tripple that volume without distortions.
Two reviews for the clear MG..what about the clear OG.
Guys help! I need recomendations about wich is the best imaging and bigger soundstage, but the like "focal and audeze bubble presentation" that Wave describes.
Arya not suitable for mixing?
Thank you for the sum up. Just to note that this is US centric, of course, and depending on one's region pricing, relative cost and selection may significant differ. For example I can get new HD800S for 1249 euro including 24% tax from the official distributor in my country.. On the other hand US made HPs tend to be much more expensive over here.
Is a good point. Getting gear internationally introduces lots of hurtles and changes the value proposition based on region. An unfortunate reality.
I don't know why Sennheiser sells these for $1960(tax included) in my country. It also doesn't have 4.4mm bal cable inside. ''Special'' packaging and ''special'' price for my country. We also earn like 1/10 compared to countries like US/DE.
Can i ask what country you are from ? Maybe i can order from there internationally. I'm from Turkey.
@@musicxxa6678 Neighbouring Greece
@@razisn Love Greece
How would you say headphones in this price range compare technically to the top tier flagships?
Many (not all) of the headphones $3K+ get increasingly better at the micro-level stuff; microdetail retrieval, microdynamics, etc. What often sets them apart is the ability to pull out those tiny subtleties while a bunch of bigger and louder stuff is happening. That may sound small (it is called "micro" afterall ;p) but goes a LONG way toward being more convincingly real. We hear those micro sounds in real life enough that they influence the sonic patterns our brains perceive. The ability to reproduce those gets the listening experience closer and closer to real.
@@wavetheorysound thanks so much for your detailed response dude.
You’re my favourite reviewer on TH-cam so it’s much appreciated. I currently have the clear and I’m just deciding whether I want to upgrade to something right at the top or not.
What about Sonorous VI?
Any idea where to find a pair of Arya V2's now? 😭
You ok buying used? I'd say take a stab at creating a WTB post on Head-Fi and see what shakes loose.
@@wavetheorysound I'm ok but unless it's barely used, I worry about the longevity because of the build quality (and no warranty) but I'll definitely try that out, thanks!
ALRIGHT! O.o . . .
👍🌟👍
To me this must be the most confusing headphones review I've seen on YT. He has managed to say the complete opposite of what other reviewers are generally saying about some of these headphones, particularly clear mg, and I feel I can't trust him, or alternatively can't trust the rest of the reviewers, which I guess means I simply can't trust anyone. Surely subjectivity comes in here, as well as experience, but the reviewers do their best of putting forward objective leaning reviews of these headphones to inform the consumers, and when they differ so much, then it's just confusing. Anyways, this is not meant to shoot down the reviewer or anything, and I appreciate the effort he has put into the review. I did learn something tho, that there is little point in listening to what reviewers on youtube have to say about these headphones, that is valuable info as well😂
I understand your confusion. The best bet is to find the small number of reviewers who either consistently align with your tastes or consistently and predictably don't align with your tastes in ways you can meaningfully compare with your own. Thanks for watching and commenting!
!
TH-909's are up to $2k new now 💀
Aargh. I looked these up when I put the video together and saw a couple places had $1799 prices listed. I just checked upon seeing this comment and yeah, all bumped up to $1999. Grrrr.
@@wavetheorysound reviewer effect 🤣
@@xsouldriverx 😒 lol
I want to try the clear mg and be clubbed to death 🤕
Wave it's time for a new mic! The timbre is all plasticky, sounds too smooth up top and thin in the mids with boomy bass. Would not recommend
Fostex TH909 & TH900Mk2 IMO are overpriced (in term of overall sound quality). I demo these 2 with my own Fostex HP-A8C Dac/Amp and I was not impressed.
Fostex HP-A8C < that's why you weren't impressed. Amp is ancient
@@TheSPazCORE Yeah, but Fostex said they were designed to pair together 🤷🏻♂️
I found this video to be clickbaity. The thumbnail displays a headphone that's not even in the review... Why even have the TH-909 in the images if you're not comparing it??? That's like me doing a review of different hamburgers and I include a hot dog...
Its all about the sound quality, the rest is not so important really.
Sorry but this isn't true, headphone technology has been stagnant for years. You may like a $2000 headphone more than an $800 but it doesn't make it better. A lot of people like their HD650 better than $6000 Susvara
Shitty bollocks. Just because old models are still good, doesn’t mean diminishing returns sets in at £200. Don’t be ridiculous. Completely unrelated.
I bet people that love the hd650 would majority like the 490 pros, I have both, and they sound SIGNIFICANTLY more alive. Also they feel even more solid and are WAY more comfortable. Image separation is the biggest improvement and was similar or better than my LCD-X with the sound, with the bass coming in at #2
Darn, between each segment, you say some first thing and your mic auto sensitivity doesn't adjust and it comes off as VERY LOUD and blows my ears off, it has happened three times now, I really need to turn you down... Very annoying.
Another awesome review!!