I dipped my Toe into high FOC this year. My setup for reference. Matthews Switchback 70# 29.5" draw 30" Sirius Vulcan 250 spine 100 Grain insert 150 Grain point Arrow ends up being 600 grains total, about 19.4 FOC. Played with the tip point and the 100 grain insert with 150 up front was making bullet holes. Previously was shooting 29" 400 spine with standard insert and 100 grains up front. Took the fletching off and got a 12" tear in the paper. My fletchings were working overtime with just field points. Im sold on the Ashby/RF method. I've never been this confident with a hunting setup before.
@Supercreech pin gaps didn't increase really. Heavier arrows with higher FOC are effected less by drag and lose less velocity over distance. I did switch arrows this year....same spine but about 70 grains lighter overall.
@Supercreech disagree. Look at RF recent videos about heavy arrow velocity and pin gaps. Math is all right there. For what it's worth, I'm hunting eastern forests. 40 yds is about the longest distance I will be shooting. So my bottom pin is 50 yards.
Troys teachings have already infected me! I’m totally stoked for you man!!!! Heavy arrows are totally awesome. My spread is 500 to 950 grains. I build half dozens, just because I’m bored and I like to build arrows. I’m not bishop arrow rich, but I can play without breaking the bank!!!! Once you get to the 700 level, listen how quiet your bow shoots. Pair that with a cut on contact head like you do and preach. Lol have fun!!!!
I am running 215 grains up front on my 300 spine Apollo's 518 total with the collar system. Had a full through and through on 2 hogs. Using the Vulcan 350s at 430ish for my target arrows. All in all Love the Sirius kits super easy to find what your bow likes.
Nicely done, very informative and well spoken. Backed up everything the Ranch Fairy preaches. The truth is, I can only watch so much of the Ranch Fairy before I loose consciousness. Lol Look forward to watching more of your videos. Hope I didn’t make a mistake, I purchased 300 spine arrows from 340 before running the test kit.
I realize that this isn't an archery instructional video, but I'm glad that you mentioned torque. Another common error that people make is either pulling or squeezing the trigger rather than using their scapular muscles to release the arrow. That also will offer challenges in shaft tuning.
Dude great video! You do a great job of explaining the details. Your grat on camera and delivery is spot on! Your going to do really good on youtube if you get a lot of content.....
Been making videos for over 7 years, and have accumulated over 300 films on TH-cam to date. We have the content! Lol. Thanks for the positive words of encouragement!
Good information I’m always playing with my weight now I’m shooting Day 6 arrows and broadhead at 643 grains dropped a buck in his tracks at 43 yards hit him high in the hip my bad but broke both hips, I’m still considering ethics but the price is what’s keeping me
Very informative Jack . I have passed the vertical bow and as you know my passion is the Arbelest .. I never paid to o much attention to torquing because I was always comfortable with my technique. Your correct. Think I could have been better if I knew about it . Thank you 🙏🏿
I’ve been watching the ranch fairy also(snorted the fairy dust). I bought the test kit loved it but couldn’t get away from my need for speed. I have ended up with with victory rip xv 300 spline 27.5” long 150 grain ethics insert and 125 grain tip up to a 200 grain broadhead. I plan on using 125 broadhead 496 grain total weight 23% foc. My bow is maxed at 61 pounds @ 28.5” draw. I’m only a few days into my new set up but they seem to hit hard. With this setup it moves my target around when the heavier apollo arrows didn’t move it much.
The "2 schools of thought" shpeel is a little misleading. Great video man, I'm just concerned people are going to think they can shoot a poorly tuned bow and swap some head weights around for perfect arrow flight. Your bow must be tuned to centershot for this system to work. How you get there is your choice. Centershot bows(any modern compound bow) dont work the same way as trad bows and essentially the head weight swap and arrow trimming method was developed for traditional bow tuning. Center shot bows have to be set to true centershot, which will vary slightly for each shooter, in order to get perfect arrow flight. Once you are at centershot to let all you want with your arrows and build some sexy, heavy hitters.
Dude, I personally couldn't agree more. Hence why I stated my personal method of tuning involves tuning the archer and tuning the bow. You are right the arrow tuning to the bow method is a little outdated as it is really a trad archery and "old school" train of thought. I like the luxury of being able to tune any spine within reason out of my bow exactly the way I want it by checking my form and working with my bow!
@@averagejackarchery That's right, you did say that. My OCD is pretty much limited to my archery "hobby". I get a little uneasy when people, even people as smart and beneficial to the industry as Troy, start with the arrow and not the bow. Thanks for clarifying, the honest truth is good archery is complicated and takes effort to achieve, I think the new heavy arrow movement will open some eyes to that. I think the industry has had enough consumerism and brand regurgitation.
I’m sticking with a little lighter shaft in order to keep my FOC higher. 250 spine Black Eagle Spartans with 225 grains up front give me 560 grains and 18% FOC.
Did you do the formula 5gr per inch x the weight of your bow? The stiffness of your arrow is so important if your shooting 70 pounds times 5 make your arrow to be a 350gr arrow stiffness now if you under spine the shaft your not going to get a center shot tune. Also if you under spine your arrow to get more speed you risk your bow from failing. Stick to the formula you can't go wrong.
The weight and the spine are different things. Just because an arrow is lighter doesn’t mean it isn’t as stiff. I have flimsier 400 spine aluminum shafts that are 12 grains per inch for my recurve and I have 250 spine carbons that are 10 grains per inch for my compound. I tested different spine shafts with different point weights to find what flew well. For my bow I’m at 65 pounds, 28.5” draw, and a 250 spine Black Eagle spartan (10 gpi) with 25 grain stainless insert and 200 grain heads for 560 grain total weight and 18% FOC. Lighter does not mean softer spine.
And your formula isn’t really correct. It’s actually 5 grains per POUND minimum weight. That means you shouldn’t shoot an arrow that weighs less than 350 grains or you could risk blowing up the bow. Mine is 200 grains heavier than that and I’m Only at 65 pounds. Spine is a different things than weight. Too soft of spine will cause erratic arrow flight and take you too far away from Center shot, as will too stiff a spine. But spine can be manipulated by Cutting shaft length And adding/subtracting point weight.
J Huntley I actually went back to a 300 spine with 223 up front. Standard diameter shafts, 23 grain inserts and 200 grain heads. 3.5” broadhead groups at 60 yards.
It's crazy how much flechings hide mistakes. I have a IQ sight that has hand torque bubble. A 240 blood sport arrow 75 grain brass insert and 225 tip flies like a dart out of my prime but my obsession bow didn't like anything I put in it
I did this video to help out Sirius and showcase the product. Those arrow build types and tuning method aren't my style. So they never made it further than what you saw in the video.
I shoot a standard Sirius Supernova. 31", 300 spine, stock 12 grain insert, 125 grain Magnus broadhead. Lighted nock and 3 Blazer's and I get 466 grains of weight. Phenomenal to tune and just lighting through animals.
@@averagejackarchery I like it, Light enough to stay fast and not have ridiculous drop. Plenty heavy to zip through a whitetail for sure! Thanks brother. Appreciate all the knowledge you share with the community, especially helpful for us beginning our bow hunting journey.
8:40 - 200 grain heads are behemoths. Wasn't sure what to make of this lol. I am running a 250 grain single bevel Abowyer Brown Bears with 100 grain brass inserts. So what do you call that ? They are the arrows that Jesus uses 😉 Great video as usual though 👍
What arrow configuration did you finally end up going with? I'm on the fence between 250 spine and 300 spine and have similar draw and pull wight to you. Appreciate the video!
Hi I am shooting a 55 pound compound bow of > 330 fps . My arrow length is 27 inches and I intend to use a 300 grain point weight . I am intending to use the Apollo shafts from Sirius Archery .what spine of arrow shaft should I be using Your advice is appreciated b. Bert Tay
I love your video’s. I ordered this test kit and love it. Looks like I’ll be shooting 563 grains this year. Can you make a video on how to cut the Ethics stainless inserts? I can’t find a video anywhere if anyone cutting them. Can I just use me arrow saw?
Average Jack Archery thanks, I finally found a video that ethics put out where they said you could cut with arrow saw. They also said a hacksaw works great. I watched all the Ranch fairy videos. I’m going with the spartan black eagle arrows with 200 grains on the front. Puts me at 563 total grains and 18.5 foc. I’m ready to see how they work with fixed blade cut on contact head. Keep putting out great videos.
Sirius arrows are just Carbon Express. Made in the same factory. I bought some. Manufacturing defects, straightness issues. There are too many other good choices out there
You'd want to go 350 or 300. Between over and underspined, over is better. And unless you like bleeding, I'd consider going to at least a 29" arrow. Then you'll be in the slot with a 300. I shoot 65lbs with a 29.5" draw. My FP/mech arrows are 30" with factory lightweight inserts. I'm just getting by at 350 spine. Since I'm going to 100gr inserts with 100gr fixed COC heads at 31" long, 300 spine is just about bang on.
Your right the longer the insert the stiffer your spine. 27 in arrow with a long insert you could easily shoot a 400 spine. However a bow can really be tuned to any spine with in reason.
Shooting into a target on the ground.. Can you even tell a nock high or low because I would think that it's falling there fore it would embellish a nock high as the heavier point is falling compared to shooting a level height target would reduce that. I'm new to this but a machinist and over think everything.
@@averagejackarchery anyways I almost ordered some practice arrows off Amazon but your comment of using pro-shops got me feeling guilty. I am about 20 minutes west and south of Philly.
So I did my test and have it narrowed down to a 300 spine arrow weighing in at 568 grains total. However, the amount of drop is *huge* compared to my current 338 grain arrows. Your arrows were hitting right on target...was it because you were already using heavy arrows? Maybe it's because my bow's speed is so much less? (I have an older bow, and I'm shooting 55 lbs and 29" DL).
Hey AJ hope you see this, but I've been shooting a few Apollo's and I picked up the stainless half outserts and was curious if you knew what size Ethics was giving them? I attempted to contact Sirius directly and they wouldn't tell me what size I had. They also switched from a Bohning nock to their own "Sirius A nock" (I have two separate batches). I've never heard of a company not willing to give me information on a product that I myself purchased.
If I use a 50 grain insert and test all the field points, and decide 200 grain field point shoots best, when I build my arrow can I use a 100 grain insert and 150 grain broadhead and keep the same flight?
THAT question is exactly why I don't tune my equipment this way. I want all my variables to be me and the bow. Not me, the bow, and the arrow. This is why I build all my arrows first to the spec I want, then tune the bow to the arrow along with constantly checking my form.
This is not how I tune my arrows. I did this video for Sirius to show this method. To find my full tuning build check out the video below. These arrows never made it past this process to the fletching stage. th-cam.com/video/vL_Cff6f_BA/w-d-xo.html
@@jamesmarsee3297 Gonna have to go with the old drill bit trick. The old RF has a video on this if you want to check it out. I don't have one on my channel.
Have you had any luck with Sirius customer service? I already have the ranch fairy field point kit and I am looking at just getting 2 of each spine arrow. However they only seem to sell in packs of 3. They have not responded to any of my emails.
I will tell you that a) Sirius is a very small staffed company, and b) nearly all of them haven't been working due to this whole covid mess. So whatever workload that they have had has tripled for just a few select employees still working.
Help me understand. Are you and RF saying that I can have an “untuned” bow, change nothing on the bow and simply find an arrow that it will shoot through trial and error?
That's how it's done with the test kit. If you watch any of my style of tuning, you'd see quite quickly I don't do this method for my own use whatsoever. I did this video to demonstrate this kit to help out Sirius with a tutorial.
@@robertdeis132 I use the 350 pile driver which is actually a 345 spine with 225 grains up front. It hits like a freight train. I am now moving to lighter shafts and more weight up front to increase foc but still keep overall heavy arrows as something to play around with until I get exactly where I want want with accuracy, velocity and energy into target.
CX uses a size chart. Smaller number=softer spine. And they don't even offer anything stiffer than a 350 spine. I made the mistake of picking up 3 dozen Mayhem DS Hunters figuring I could load the FOC a little more. Turns out that at my setup, I was already at the ragged edge of the arrow's performance. Those arrows will be relegated to 3D, and general mucking around. I'm making the switch to Gold Tip and Black Eagle.
It depends on draw length and the how aggressively speedy your bow is, along with how much point weight and overall arrow length you want. Bunch of factors.
@@averagejackarchery my draw length is 29.5” and I use 125 grain heads. Right now my arrow length is 30”. I use Easton arrows and by there chart they recommend a 340 spine.
Easton is the only company still making arrows in the US. None of their arrows are 100% carbon. Either a fiberglass/carbon composite or an aluminum/carbon composite. EPA regulations dictate no full carbon arrows can be made in the USA.
Average Jack Archery, I'm happy to see that you use hot melt glue. I do to but I've missed my target a few times and hit a large rock more than once. Sometimes my arrow and insert have come apart when hitting them. I don't want that to happen if I hit heavy bone. I'm thinking of maybe using some kind of epoxy for the inserts. I'm still on the fence about it though.
I’m still amazed that a guy that hunts pigs over feeders at 15 yards has been able to convince so many people that super heavy arrows are the way to go. Arrows between 450-550 are likely the best choice for most bow hunters , this of course depends on other variables like draw weight, draw length etc. I’m consistently seeing arguments that 650 is necessary to hunt whitetail, that’s hilarious.
The pig hunter is not the one recommending 650 plus - you are misquoting him if you say he is pushing super heavy arrows. He often talks of 550 ish grains. Great research by Ed Ashby shows an increase in bone breaking ability of 650 plus - not to say 550 cannot break bone - just 650 is better for breaking bone. Heavier arrows penetrate better - period.
try listening with an open mind - you are speaking rubbish. He is stating what improves penetration - and heavier arrows amongst other 12 factors are clearly stated.@@MrRazorback1975
The GT Hunters are all .246" ID. They make 100gr brass inserts and also offer screw in weights. I'll be picking up a half dozen of the 300s since it's all I can source locally.
Grizz Axxemann thank you grizz. I’ll look for the same. I shot them for years. Never had a failure. Hell I’ve shot them into an oak tree. No splitting.
@@JayN4GO I used to think the same about the CX Adrenalines and Mayhems, until I started trying to tweak my arrow setup. Then I started sniffing the Ranch Fairy Dust. 😁 But since my funds, sourcing and time are limited, I'm going with the 300s, 100gr inserts & Serrazors. It'll be enough for Alberta Whitetails come September. I'll be around 540grs, and 14% FOC. I'll find some 250 spine arrows come winter and build some EFOC beasts.
No I don't understand why you would shoot unbleached arrows for turning your bow you should be shooting what ever your hunting with those fetching and what ever field point as long as it doesn't put you over or under the weight of the shift. You know the formula to figure out the weight of your arrow which every bow hunter knows. 5gr per pound of the bow. If the bow is 40 lbs 40 x 5gr per inch =total of 200gr arrow. But you also have to know the spine of the arrow your using is the proper stiffness. Put it all together you have a hunting arrow. Cool right.
Just dandy if you like shooting stuff that fails. This ain't 3D archery. This is bowhunting. You want the big, stiff arrow with the big, heavy cut on contact broadhead to brute force its way THROUGH the animal. Bareshaft tuning is all about getting your arrow's natural flight perfect. The vanes then have less work to do to stabilize that high FOC arrow, meaning deeper penetration, and THAT is what kills. Do you split a 24" log with a hatchet or do you use a 3 ton log splitter? That formula is the hatchet approach. The log splitter is going to move slower, but have way more FORCE.
Bare shaft is just 1 simple but effective tuning method. Some people dont care for it but for hunters it provides more of a benefit as to have a more efficient flight. Also it tends to dramatically help your field points and broadheads hit the same spot. This simple exercise will become more clear to you as you continue to learn about archery tuning.
Or........... you can actually look at the set up that Troy has completely missed the boat on. When you are adding the weight system you are almost making a footer, which shortens your arrow and technically makes your projectile stiffer. He has followers that are shooting to stiff of an arrow typically and adding unnecessary grains per inch which is working against the very thing you are trying to accomplish. Step 1 - tune your bow, if you are shooting a high dollar machine you better also be spending money on high quality projectiles. If you are shooting a hand me down or less expensive bow, put the extra money into good arrows/components. Step 2- get yourself a scale, weigh every item of the arrow and call manufacturers out on quality. Square both ends. If a shop is building your arrows, make sure you let them know you will weigh them to be sure they fall into the specs you pay for. Spin test, a arrow that flys true will penetrate just about anything. If you want to do this on the cheap to play around with, take the OD of the arrow you choose, find the ID of a aluminum arrow and cut yourself some footers, glue a 1", 2" or even 3" piece to the front of the shaft you are going to use, pay attention to the style of rest you use at full draw for the length of these. Where your nock valley starts to the first part of the sleeve is your arrow length, as you have just created a new dynamic spine. Basically ditch the 200 and go to 250, ditch the 300 and move to 330 and so on. Those unnecessary grains per inch add up over the span of the arrow, and get rid of the damn twist this and do this, try this and try that videos that have everybody chasing and looking for good arrow flight. Spine the damn thing right in the first place and good luck.
I don't understand the concept of tuning your bow with raw shafts if your not going to shoot your normal weight broad. For me it does absolutely nothing for tuning. Please try to make me understand.
@@benpena2832 Hey. Ben that's not the way you tune an arrow you shoot threw paper and see that their is a bullseye. All your fletchings are spilting the paper equally. That's tuning your bow with your arrow.
Did the Apollo kit and have not regretted it. Sirius has some excellent quality and customer service and your paper tune video helped me a lot
I dipped my Toe into high FOC this year. My setup for reference.
Matthews Switchback 70# 29.5" draw
30" Sirius Vulcan 250 spine
100 Grain insert
150 Grain point
Arrow ends up being 600 grains total, about 19.4 FOC.
Played with the tip point and the 100 grain insert with 150 up front was making bullet holes.
Previously was shooting 29" 400 spine with standard insert and 100 grains up front. Took the fletching off and got a 12" tear in the paper. My fletchings were working overtime with just field points.
Im sold on the Ashby/RF method. I've never been this confident with a hunting setup before.
@Supercreech pin gaps didn't increase really. Heavier arrows with higher FOC are effected less by drag and lose less velocity over distance. I did switch arrows this year....same spine but about 70 grains lighter overall.
@Supercreech disagree. Look at RF recent videos about heavy arrow velocity and pin gaps. Math is all right there.
For what it's worth, I'm hunting eastern forests. 40 yds is about the longest distance I will be shooting. So my bottom pin is 50 yards.
Sad that a couple jack wagons disliked this. They must shoot twizzlers and wing dingers. LOL
Great video brother!
🤣🤣🤣
Best comment 😂. We always say, if you dislike the video, at least say why!
@@MissConstable1 - Liked your comment and I’ll tell you why. What a great face, dimples all day!
@@classixdrummer thank you!
Troys teachings have already infected me! I’m totally stoked for you man!!!! Heavy arrows are totally awesome. My spread is 500 to 950 grains. I build half dozens, just because I’m bored and I like to build arrows. I’m not bishop arrow rich, but I can play without breaking the bank!!!! Once you get to the 700 level, listen how quiet your bow shoots. Pair that with a cut on contact head like you do and preach. Lol have fun!!!!
Wow, the torque test results from grip pressure was crazy - great video as always!
I did the RF adult arrow build.
Very much appreciated hearing your excellent teaching and explanations! Great teacher!
I am running 215 grains up front on my 300 spine Apollo's 518 total with the collar system. Had a full through and through on 2 hogs. Using the Vulcan 350s at 430ish for my target arrows. All in all Love the Sirius kits super easy to find what your bow likes.
Nicely done, very informative and well spoken. Backed up everything the Ranch Fairy preaches. The truth is, I can only watch so much of the Ranch Fairy before I loose consciousness. Lol
Look forward to watching more of your videos. Hope I didn’t make a mistake, I purchased 300 spine arrows from 340 before running the test kit.
The torque demonstration was so helpful. Great demo.
Great video! Have watched all the Hunting Public and Ranch Fairy videos, and this actually explains it better. Ready to dive in now!
I realize that this isn't an archery instructional video, but I'm glad that you mentioned torque. Another common error that people make is either pulling or squeezing the trigger rather than using their scapular muscles to release the arrow. That also will offer challenges in shaft tuning.
I'm heading in this direction. Thank you for another well explained video jack.
He’s coming to the dark side! Right on! Fellow English teacher and heavy arrow enthusiast here. Good chance we’re the only two in the world haha
Make it three
Dude great video! You do a great job of explaining the details. Your grat on camera and delivery is spot on! Your going to do really good on youtube if you get a lot of content.....
Been making videos for over 7 years, and have accumulated over 300 films on TH-cam to date. We have the content! Lol. Thanks for the positive words of encouragement!
Good information I’m always playing with my weight now I’m shooting Day 6 arrows and broadhead at 643 grains dropped a buck in his tracks at 43 yards hit him high in the hip my bad but broke both hips, I’m still considering ethics but the price is what’s keeping me
Thanks for another great vid 📹☺️ and thanks for adding ‘torque’ at the end 😎
You do such a nice job explaining things keep videos coming
Uh oh somebody been sniffing some fairy dust 😂😂😂
Very informative Jack . I have passed the vertical bow and as you know my passion is the Arbelest .. I never paid to o much attention to torquing because I was always comfortable with my technique. Your correct. Think I could have been better if I knew about it . Thank you 🙏🏿
I’ve been watching the ranch fairy also(snorted the fairy dust). I bought the test kit loved it but couldn’t get away from my need for speed. I have ended up with with victory rip xv 300 spline 27.5” long 150 grain ethics insert and 125 grain tip up to a 200 grain broadhead. I plan on using 125 broadhead 496 grain total weight 23% foc. My bow is maxed at 61 pounds @ 28.5” draw. I’m only a few days into my new set up but they seem to hit hard. With this setup it moves my target around when the heavier apollo arrows didn’t move it much.
Very helpful...thanks AJ! I can't wait to try this...
The "2 schools of thought" shpeel is a little misleading. Great video man, I'm just concerned people are going to think they can shoot a poorly tuned bow and swap some head weights around for perfect arrow flight. Your bow must be tuned to centershot for this system to work. How you get there is your choice. Centershot bows(any modern compound bow) dont work the same way as trad bows and essentially the head weight swap and arrow trimming method was developed for traditional bow tuning. Center shot bows have to be set to true centershot, which will vary slightly for each shooter, in order to get perfect arrow flight. Once you are at centershot to let all you want with your arrows and build some sexy, heavy hitters.
Dude, I personally couldn't agree more. Hence why I stated my personal method of tuning involves tuning the archer and tuning the bow. You are right the arrow tuning to the bow method is a little outdated as it is really a trad archery and "old school" train of thought. I like the luxury of being able to tune any spine within reason out of my bow exactly the way I want it by checking my form and working with my bow!
@@averagejackarchery That's right, you did say that. My OCD is pretty much limited to my archery "hobby". I get a little uneasy when people, even people as smart and beneficial to the industry as Troy, start with the arrow and not the bow. Thanks for clarifying, the honest truth is good archery is complicated and takes effort to achieve, I think the new heavy arrow movement will open some eyes to that. I think the industry has had enough consumerism and brand regurgitation.
Dig it bro. Good luck this fall!
Great video. I kept waiting for you to turn the shaft of the 300 to index the spine after that first shot.
I don't index unless a broadhead is being fickle or I'm actually tuning thoroughly through paper.
@@averagejackarchery That makes sense. I appreciate all the work you do in your videos. I find the topics generally very helpful. Thank you.
Paper tuning at 10 yards is eye opening on how a little torque can make huge tears.
I’m sticking with a little lighter shaft in order to keep my FOC higher. 250 spine Black Eagle Spartans with 225 grains up front give me 560 grains and 18% FOC.
Did you do the formula 5gr per inch x the weight of your bow? The stiffness of your arrow is so important if your shooting 70 pounds times 5 make your arrow to be a 350gr arrow stiffness now if you under spine the shaft your not going to get a center shot tune. Also if you under spine your arrow to get more speed you risk your bow from failing. Stick to the formula you can't go wrong.
The weight and the spine are different things. Just because an arrow is lighter doesn’t mean it isn’t as stiff.
I have flimsier 400 spine aluminum shafts that are 12 grains per inch for my recurve and I have 250 spine carbons that are 10 grains per inch for my compound.
I tested different spine shafts with different point weights to find what flew well. For my bow I’m at 65 pounds, 28.5” draw, and a 250 spine Black Eagle spartan (10 gpi) with 25 grain stainless insert and 200 grain heads for 560 grain total weight and 18% FOC.
Lighter does not mean softer spine.
And your formula isn’t really correct. It’s actually 5 grains per POUND minimum weight. That means you shouldn’t shoot an arrow that weighs less than 350 grains or you could risk blowing up the bow. Mine is 200 grains heavier than that and I’m Only at 65 pounds. Spine is a different things than weight. Too soft of spine will cause erratic arrow flight and take you too far away from Center shot, as will too stiff a spine. But spine can be manipulated by Cutting shaft length And adding/subtracting point weight.
I'm shocked the 300s didnt fly just as good as your 250s. Either way doesnt matter good luck
J Huntley I actually went back to a 300 spine with 223 up front. Standard diameter shafts, 23 grain inserts and 200 grain heads. 3.5” broadhead groups at 60 yards.
Good Video just ordered my ranch fairy test kit yesterday, and I love the EZV sight killed my biggest buck to date with it last year.
I ordered my ezv with the new sapphire inserts. I'm still skeptical. Bu most of my shots are inside 15.
It's crazy how much flechings hide mistakes. I have a IQ sight that has hand torque bubble. A 240 blood sport arrow 75 grain brass insert and 225 tip flies like a dart out of my prime but my obsession bow didn't like anything I put in it
Thanks for posting this man! Super helpful. Any updates on how this setup worked for you? Are you still running it for hunting?
I did this video to help out Sirius and showcase the product. Those arrow build types and tuning method aren't my style. So they never made it further than what you saw in the video.
@@averagejackarchery Understood! What is your setup if you don’t mind me asking?
I shoot a standard Sirius Supernova. 31", 300 spine, stock 12 grain insert, 125 grain Magnus broadhead. Lighted nock and 3 Blazer's and I get 466 grains of weight. Phenomenal to tune and just lighting through animals.
@@averagejackarchery I like it, Light enough to stay fast and not have ridiculous drop. Plenty heavy to zip through a whitetail for sure! Thanks brother. Appreciate all the knowledge you share with the community, especially helpful for us beginning our bow hunting journey.
8:40 - 200 grain heads are behemoths. Wasn't sure what to make of this lol. I am running a 250 grain single bevel Abowyer Brown Bears with 100 grain brass inserts. So what do you call that ? They are the arrows that Jesus uses 😉
Great video as usual though 👍
Good job on making helpful videos.
Troy Fowler is the man as far as I'm concerned. I would freaking marry that man, he's just too freaking cute. He drives us men wild!!!
What arrow configuration did you finally end up going with? I'm on the fence between 250 spine and 300 spine and have similar draw and pull wight to you. Appreciate the video!
250 spine ended up the best for me with that much front weight and 31" arrow.
I thought ibstead of adjusting the rest you are supposed to knock tune assuming the rest is already set right for height and parallel
Hi I am shooting a 55 pound compound bow of > 330 fps . My arrow length is 27 inches and I intend to use a 300 grain point weight .
I am intending to use the Apollo shafts from Sirius Archery .what spine of arrow shaft should I be using
Your advice is appreciated b.
Bert Tay
I love your video’s. I ordered this test kit and love it. Looks like I’ll be shooting 563 grains this year. Can you make a video on how to cut the Ethics stainless inserts? I can’t find a video anywhere if anyone cutting them. Can I just use me arrow saw?
If it was me I would score partway through with the arrow saw and then just bend back and forth to break off the rest.
Average Jack Archery thanks, I finally found a video that ethics put out where they said you could cut with arrow saw. They also said a hacksaw works great. I watched all the Ranch fairy videos. I’m going with the spartan black eagle arrows with 200 grains on the front. Puts me at 563 total grains and 18.5 foc. I’m ready to see how they work with fixed blade cut on contact head. Keep putting out great videos.
Sirius arrows are just Carbon Express. Made in the same factory. I bought some. Manufacturing defects, straightness issues. There are too many other good choices out there
What did you end up switching to?
That 300 spine will probably fly well with the 175!!!
What about 60# @ 28" draw, 27" arrow using 100 g. Insert & 100 g. B.H? 400 spine??? I hear the longer insert actually stiffens you up some.
You'd want to go 350 or 300. Between over and underspined, over is better. And unless you like bleeding, I'd consider going to at least a 29" arrow. Then you'll be in the slot with a 300.
I shoot 65lbs with a 29.5" draw. My FP/mech arrows are 30" with factory lightweight inserts. I'm just getting by at 350 spine.
Since I'm going to 100gr inserts with 100gr fixed COC heads at 31" long, 300 spine is just about bang on.
Your right the longer the insert the stiffer your spine. 27 in arrow with a long insert you could easily shoot a 400 spine. However a bow can really be tuned to any spine with in reason.
Did you mean the shorter the arrow the stiffer the spine?
Shooting into a target on the ground.. Can you even tell a nock high or low because I would think that it's falling there fore it would embellish a nock high as the heavier point is falling compared to shooting a level height target would reduce that. I'm new to this but a machinist and over think everything.
What what what! Thought you were not a believer in this set up?
I am not, yes. I did the video for Sirius to better explain this method as teaching people is literally my job outside of TH-cam.
@@averagejackarchery anyways I almost ordered some practice arrows off Amazon but your comment of using pro-shops got me feeling guilty. I am about 20 minutes west and south of Philly.
As always great video......thank you
Could you use screw in brass insert weights as opposed to heavier FPs?
Yup!
Would you recommend this kit or buying the ethics kit and other branded arrows?
I would buy the arrow brand you plan on shooting, then play around with the RF points.
Where is a good place for your rest to start when you begin tuning
13/16" center of the arrow measured from the berger hole.
So I did my test and have it narrowed down to a 300 spine arrow weighing in at 568 grains total. However, the amount of drop is *huge* compared to my current 338 grain arrows. Your arrows were hitting right on target...was it because you were already using heavy arrows? Maybe it's because my bow's speed is so much less? (I have an older bow, and I'm shooting 55 lbs and 29" DL).
Well I am also shooting at 10 yards! But yes, heavy arrows have some serious drop to them regardless of who's shooting them. It's inevitable.
I probably missed this in the video but how far away do you stand when bare shaft tuning
Nvm 15 yards?
How was your target not moving during this test, my wife shoots 40 lbs on a heavier target with lighter arrows and it moves.
Hey jack, if you were going to chose between a sirius Apollo or a day six hd, which arrow would you go with and why?
I have no experience with the Day Six arrows, but I can attest to the Apollo's and they are one impressive arrow! Definitely can't go wrong with them.
1:40 you say the longer the arrow the stiffer the spine is going to be? I thought the shorter the arroe the stiffer it would be
You're building a heavy arrow. The longer the arrow you want, the stiffer the arrow you NEED.
@@averagejackarchery gotcha.... Ty....
2:05 Average Jack calls all you guys that don’t want to shoot a lot of FOC ladies!!!!!! Rofl
Hey AJ hope you see this, but I've been shooting a few Apollo's and I picked up the stainless half outserts and was curious if you knew what size Ethics was giving them? I attempted to contact Sirius directly and they wouldn't tell me what size I had. They also switched from a Bohning nock to their own "Sirius A nock" (I have two separate batches). I've never heard of a company not willing to give me information on a product that I myself purchased.
They're Breakoff from 100-60 grains.
@@averagejackarchery Hey thanks! I saw that Ethics had two separate sizes but I got it figured out.
If I use a 50 grain insert and test all the field points, and decide 200 grain field point shoots best, when I build my arrow can I use a 100 grain insert and 150 grain broadhead and keep the same flight?
Yes you can! However you do the math is irrelevant. Just as long as it adds up to the original total.
What release is that? Do you hunt with it? Thanks, great vid!
It is a hinge release. My current hinge is a Scott Ascent and I love it! I do not hunt with it however I strictly use it for target shooting.
How do you know if the nock left or right isn’t due to nock tuning rather that field tip weight?
THAT question is exactly why I don't tune my equipment this way. I want all my variables to be me and the bow. Not me, the bow, and the arrow. This is why I build all my arrows first to the spec I want, then tune the bow to the arrow along with constantly checking my form.
Did your broadheads fly just like the field points after this process?
This is not how I tune my arrows. I did this video for Sirius to show this method. To find my full tuning build check out the video below. These arrows never made it past this process to the fletching stage. th-cam.com/video/vL_Cff6f_BA/w-d-xo.html
How do you get a stainless steel insert out of an Apollo arrow? I need to put a different weight insert in. TIA
What glue was used?
@@averagejackarchery gorilla super glue with the blue cap.
@@jamesmarsee3297 Gonna have to go with the old drill bit trick. The old RF has a video on this if you want to check it out. I don't have one on my channel.
Came out easy because of the fatter outset contacts less surface area
Have you had any luck with Sirius customer service? I already have the ranch fairy field point kit and I am looking at just getting 2 of each spine arrow. However they only seem to sell in packs of 3. They have not responded to any of my emails.
I will tell you that a) Sirius is a very small staffed company, and b) nearly all of them haven't been working due to this whole covid mess. So whatever workload that they have had has tripled for just a few select employees still working.
Help me understand. Are you and RF saying that I can have an “untuned” bow, change nothing on the bow and simply find an arrow that it will shoot through trial and error?
That's how it's done with the test kit. If you watch any of my style of tuning, you'd see quite quickly I don't do this method for my own use whatsoever. I did this video to demonstrate this kit to help out Sirius with a tutorial.
I have watched your tuning videos. I bare shaft tune the bow and find that I can shoot most arrows in the “bell curve.”
@@stevehilligoss309 ATTA BOY!!! Man after my own heart.
What’s with Carbon Express’s spine chart? Seems different than everyone else’s.
No idea, but it DRIVES ME NUTS!!! :P
Average Jack Archery and that’s a shame because the pile driver seamed like a good heavy arrow.
@@robertdeis132 I use the 350 pile driver which is actually a 345 spine with 225 grains up front.
It hits like a freight train. I am now moving to lighter shafts and more weight up front to increase foc but still keep overall heavy arrows as something to play around with until I get exactly where I want want with accuracy, velocity and energy into target.
Agreed there chart is way off.
CX uses a size chart. Smaller number=softer spine. And they don't even offer anything stiffer than a 350 spine. I made the mistake of picking up 3 dozen Mayhem DS Hunters figuring I could load the FOC a little more. Turns out that at my setup, I was already at the ragged edge of the arrow's performance. Those arrows will be relegated to 3D, and general mucking around. I'm making the switch to Gold Tip and Black Eagle.
great video
Do you use the same spine if you are shooting 55lbs?
It depends on draw length and the how aggressively speedy your bow is, along with how much point weight and overall arrow length you want. Bunch of factors.
@@averagejackarchery my draw length is 29.5” and I use 125 grain heads. Right now my arrow length is 30”. I use Easton arrows and by there chart they recommend a 340 spine.
I guess what I’m trying to figure out is do I need to move to a 300 spine if I want a higher foc?
If you add 100 grains of extra weight I would definitely go to 300 spine.
Did you glue in the inserts before shooting?
Of course!
Average Jack Archery What glue do you use?
@@whitewood2000 I'm a hot melt guy for all my inserts.
Average Jack Archery Gotcha, thank you so much🤙🏻
Are these arrows made in the USA? If not does anyone know a company that makes this stuff in the US!?
Easton is the only company still making arrows in the US. None of their arrows are 100% carbon. Either a fiberglass/carbon composite or an aluminum/carbon composite. EPA regulations dictate no full carbon arrows can be made in the USA.
What do you use to glue in the inserts?
OMP hot melt
Average Jack Archery, I'm happy to see that you use hot melt glue. I do to but I've missed my target a few times and hit a large rock more than once. Sometimes my arrow and insert have come apart when hitting them. I don't want that to happen if I hit heavy bone. I'm thinking of maybe using some kind of epoxy for the inserts. I'm still on the fence about it though.
I’m still amazed that a guy that hunts pigs over feeders at 15 yards has been able to convince so many people that super heavy arrows are the way to go. Arrows between 450-550 are likely the best choice for most bow hunters , this of course depends on other variables like draw weight, draw length etc. I’m consistently seeing arguments that 650 is necessary to hunt whitetail, that’s hilarious.
Beyond hilarious. My personal hunting arrows live between 460-470.
@@averagejackarchery those are solid choices and they pack a hefty punch 👍🏻
The pig hunter is not the one recommending 650 plus - you are misquoting him if you say he is pushing super heavy arrows. He often talks of 550 ish grains. Great research by Ed Ashby shows an increase in bone breaking ability of 650 plus - not to say 550 cannot break bone - just 650 is better for breaking bone. Heavier arrows penetrate better - period.
@@african7498 Troy is absolutely promoting heavy arrows, it’s his thing and it’s why we know who he is….
try listening with an open mind - you are speaking rubbish. He is stating what improves penetration - and heavier arrows amongst other 12 factors are clearly stated.@@MrRazorback1975
great video though !
What diameter is gold tip ?
They make everything from .166 to max 27 diameter. All depends on your needs and your budget!
The GT Hunters are all .246" ID. They make 100gr brass inserts and also offer screw in weights. I'll be picking up a half dozen of the 300s since it's all I can source locally.
Grizz Axxemann thank you grizz. I’ll look for the same. I shot them for years. Never had a failure. Hell I’ve shot them into an oak tree. No splitting.
@@JayN4GO I used to think the same about the CX Adrenalines and Mayhems, until I started trying to tweak my arrow setup. Then I started sniffing the Ranch Fairy Dust. 😁
But since my funds, sourcing and time are limited, I'm going with the 300s, 100gr inserts & Serrazors. It'll be enough for Alberta Whitetails come September. I'll be around 540grs, and 14% FOC. I'll find some 250 spine arrows come winter and build some EFOC beasts.
Check out vector. $29 for two...
No I don't understand why you would shoot unbleached arrows for turning your bow you should be shooting what ever your hunting with those fetching and what ever field point as long as it doesn't put you over or under the weight of the shift. You know the formula to figure out the weight of your arrow which every bow hunter knows. 5gr per pound of the bow. If the bow is 40 lbs 40 x 5gr per inch =total of 200gr arrow. But you also have to know the spine of the arrow your using is the proper stiffness. Put it all together you have a hunting arrow. Cool right.
Just dandy if you like shooting stuff that fails.
This ain't 3D archery. This is bowhunting. You want the big, stiff arrow with the big, heavy cut on contact broadhead to brute force its way THROUGH the animal.
Bareshaft tuning is all about getting your arrow's natural flight perfect. The vanes then have less work to do to stabilize that high FOC arrow, meaning deeper penetration, and THAT is what kills.
Do you split a 24" log with a hatchet or do you use a 3 ton log splitter? That formula is the hatchet approach. The log splitter is going to move slower, but have way more FORCE.
Bare shaft is just 1 simple but effective tuning method. Some people dont care for it but for hunters it provides more of a benefit as to have a more efficient flight. Also it tends to dramatically help your field points and broadheads hit the same spot. This simple exercise will become more clear to you as you continue to learn about archery tuning.
Knock tune
Or........... you can actually look at the set up that Troy has completely missed the boat on. When you are adding the weight system you are almost making a footer, which shortens your arrow and technically makes your projectile stiffer. He has followers that are shooting to stiff of an arrow typically and adding unnecessary grains per inch which is working against the very thing you are trying to accomplish. Step 1 - tune your bow, if you are shooting a high dollar machine you better also be spending money on high quality projectiles. If you are shooting a hand me down or less expensive bow, put the extra money into good arrows/components. Step 2- get yourself a scale, weigh every item of the arrow and call manufacturers out on quality. Square both ends. If a shop is building your arrows, make sure you let them know you will weigh them to be sure they fall into the specs you pay for. Spin test, a arrow that flys true will penetrate just about anything. If you want to do this on the cheap to play around with, take the OD of the arrow you choose, find the ID of a aluminum arrow and cut yourself some footers, glue a 1", 2" or even 3" piece to the front of the shaft you are going to use, pay attention to the style of rest you use at full draw for the length of these. Where your nock valley starts to the first part of the sleeve is your arrow length, as you have just created a new dynamic spine. Basically ditch the 200 and go to 250, ditch the 300 and move to 330 and so on. Those unnecessary grains per inch add up over the span of the arrow, and get rid of the damn twist this and do this, try this and try that videos that have everybody chasing and looking for good arrow flight. Spine the damn thing right in the first place and good luck.
Lol big guy shoots #60
To get a even better flight and accuracy, keep aiming after the shot. Your arm flies to the left after each shot. This needs to be corrected.
I find the Ranch Fairy very annoying, I can barely get through most of his videos. a lot of knowledge but just annoying. IMO
I don't understand the concept of tuning your bow with raw shafts if your not going to shoot your normal weight broad. For me it does absolutely nothing for tuning. Please try to make me understand.
I don't quite understand your question here, Joseph. Are you saying why tune this arrow if you plan on shooting something totally different?
He’s tuning the arrow not the bow…
@@benpena2832 Hey. Ben that's not the way you tune an arrow you shoot threw paper and see that their is a bullseye. All your fletchings are spilting the paper equally. That's tuning your bow with your arrow.