*Slavery and Islam with Dr Jonathan Brown* ( abridged timestamps ) 0:00:02 Introduction : Welcoming, and introducing Dr Jonathan Brown, and his books 0:01:37 Dr Brown defines "slavery" [[ there is no agreed upon definition of slavery ]] 0:12:03 Two broad historical approaches to define slavery - legal, and social 0:21:16 Distinction between regular, and slavery coercion 0:24:48 Intendent servants were slaves acc to modern day slavery 0:32:48 Slavery conundrum 0:37:00 Paradoxical three axioms 0:42:32 Prior to 1700, slavery was not deemed wrong acc to any religious, philosophical, and intellectual tradition 0:45:03 Moral awakening narrative 0:47:01 Slavery is nowhere condemned in the Bible 0:49:29 Problems with the argument of many modern Christians / liberal theologians / progressive Muslims 0:51:51 How to resolve 0:54:58 Prior to the 1800s, no society actually even proposed to abolish slavery as institution 0:59:10 Morality is just custom as long as it is permitted by the Sharī'ah 1:04:28 ....and thus Islam removes the slavery conundrum 1:08:04 The vio#lence of the transatlantic slave-trade was without precedent 1:10:15 There is no plantation slavery in Islamic civilisation 1:13:41 Abolition of slavery in Islam 1:14:22 Islamic teachings on slavery 1:20:43 Unprecedented emphasis on emancipation by the Qur'an, and Sunnah of Prophet (saws) 1:22:17 Reason why the Qur'an has not abolished slavery at once 1:25:12 Muslim arguments on abolition of slavery 1:32:30 Thanking Dr Jonathan Brown, recommending his book _Slavery and Islam_ , and future plan for stream on "concubinage issue"
This has been a very eye opening lecture. My perception about morality, not just slavery, has just been changed. I look at history differently now. Wow.
Westerner: "Islam is Slavery" Me: "You pay 30% of your income tax to keep yourself out of Jail". Westerner:..... "Oh but that money is paid for better Hospitals, Health care, better roads" Me: When justifying colonial slavery, white man said; in return we provide clothing, food and warm place to sleep". 😉 Westerner: " " #PleaseReflect New Update: Take a listen to Daniel Haqiqatjou Regarding owning a slave th-cam.com/video/F0VP3kfecRE/w-d-xo.htmlsi=xK2DfxSQl1phmS21
@@BloggingTheology definitely not. Slavery is defined by a power dynamic. You’re equivocating on the word slave. It is and always was defined by the ownership of one person as legal property.
Not really he supports the right of gay marriage and also supports the right for people to insult the prophet Mohammad SAW Wallahy idk how he has these beliefs, he looks like a smart person
@@tklthelegend2100I think his reasoning for supporting free speech which included that is because he thought that if we gave government the power to control speech then in the future they will censor Muslims' speech. He still believes it is wrong to insult the Prophet Sallallahu 'Alaihi wa Sallam morally. We can disagree with him and consider his reasoning to be flawed but we should not misrepresent his views. We should try to understand what the other person means when he is saying what he is saying.
I just recently bought Slavery and Islam 3 days ago on Kindle and Subhanallah this comes in my notifications. How lovely thanks Paul and Dr Jonathan Brown 👍🏾😁
Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold forbidden that which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book (Jews and Christians), until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. Quran 9:29
@@moholah3745 Even Christianity doesn't treat the people that invade them with that much decency! Subhanallah. Thank you for this reminder about God's mercy. Allhamdulilah
@@moholah3745 Learn more about Surah and its context.. As for the verse-To fully understand this verse we need to bear in mind that Quranic verses are of two types. General verses talk about belief in Allah, good manners, and acts of worship. Specific verses, such as this verse, were revealed in regards to particular situations. This sûrah came at a time when the pagans of Arabia (and their allies) repeatedly violated treaties they had signed with the Prophet (ﷺ). Muslims had to fight for the survival of their newly established state in Medina. So this verse discusses dealing with those who violated their agreements and attacked the Muslims. Offenders were fought, unless they stopped their aggression. If they chose not to accept Islam, they were obligated to pay Jizya-tax.As for jizya- Taxation systems have existed since ancient times. There are several references in the Old Testament (e.g., Ezra 4:20). In the New Testament, Jesus allows paying taxes to Caesar (Luke 20:25). Under Islamic rule, all individuals had financial obligations-Muslims paid zakâh (2.5% of their savings) and non-Muslims (ⱬimmîs) were required to pay jizyah (tax for protection from foreign enemies). The jizyah was an average of one dinar (4.25 g of gold) annually. Women, children, the elderly, the clergy, the poor, and those who were unable to work were exempt. Those who opted to join the army were also exempt. Poor ⱬimmîs were supported financially by the state. Muslim rulers refunded the jizyah if they failed to protect their non-Muslim subjects.
I loooooove Jonathan Brown. He is absolutely brilliant. His breakdowns and examples are really really good. And he pushed us to think about things that are important but people take from granted, but all the manipulation and power is in these gaps of meaning kept in darkness.
Sura 2 Al Baqara verse 177 "Pious kindness does not consist in turning your faces towards the East or the West. But godly kindness is to believe in Allah, the Last Day, the Angels, the Book and the Prophets, to give of one's wealth, however much one loves it, to relatives, orphans, the needy, destitute travellers and those who ask for help, and to *untie yokes,* to perform Salat and pay Zakat. And those who fulfil their pledges when they have pledged themselves, those who endure hardship and sickness and when fighting rages, these are the truthful and these are the truly pious!" untying yokes = freeing slaves
Narrated 'Aisha: The things which annul the prayers were mentioned before me. They said, "Prayer is annulled by a dog, a donkey and a woman (if they pass in front of the praying people)." I said, "You have made us (i.e. women) dogs. I saw the Prophet praying while I used to lie in my bed between him and the Qibla. Whenever I was in need of something, I would slip away. for I disliked to face him." Sahih Bukhari 511
@@moholah3745 Well,Women are a distraction for men.When a beautiful woman passes 4 out of 10 men will look at them So,Yeah that's why men don't pray with women at the same place cause it will cause distraction. It doesn't mean he compared dogs with women.
May I propose the following agenda for our next discussion: 1) Focus the conversation on slavery in Arabia during the time of the Quran's revelation. 2) Origins of slavery: Thesis - Slaves were primarily prisoners of war (POWs) from defeated aggressor tribes. 3) Islam's approach to addressing slavery: POWs could no longer be enslaved; freeing slaves is an expiation for sins; violence against slaves is forbidden; slaves could marry; use of the term 'slave' is prohibited, and Islam introduced self-purchase agreements for slaves. 4) Why didn't Islam abolish slavery immediately? Thesis - The absence of a social welfare system made immediate abolition impractical for the economic integration of slaves.
Westerner: "Islam is Slavery" Me: "You pay 30% income tax to keep yourself out of Jail". Westerner:..... "Oh but that money is paid for better Hospitals, Health care, better roads. Me: "That's what the white man said when justifying colonial slavery, in return we provide clothing, food and warm place to sleep". 😂 Westerner: " " #PleaseReflect
Excellent point on 3. And we saw what happened in America specifically when the abolition of slavery occurred all at once. Once that occurred there was no true reintegration of the slave class into American society.
How comes Islamic empires and communities were still practicing slavery until late 1800s? What's the difference between them and, say, american slavery? Did Muslims for 1.5 millenium acted against Islamic teachings? If there was no welfare system, couldn't Allah give one after all he is all powerful.
what a bunch of insanity, slavery is very very easily defined. The standard definition is owning another human being as personal property. ie. property, you can sell or buy as the case may be.
O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people. Quran 5:51
This was inspirational. Thanks a lot! As an Arab Muslim, it is insightful to me to listen to Islamic issues being discussed by people from different (i.e., non-Arab) cultural background. Here, for example, your Western background enabled you to discuss the morality of the US Founders & the UN agreements in your introduction. These are sides of which I am not so aware, but yet they affect our collective morality standards due to the globalization. That is why we need Muslims from all over the world to participate in such main issues. Thank you again; it was informative.
@@Kirk-d7vno way you think Islamic slavery is comparable to how bad biblical slavery is. Get out of your bubble son, biblical slavery is the worst form of slavery out there.
I reverted not that long ago and for all the moral guidance the Qur'an has that I outright agreed with or at worse came to rationally understand later on, I still couldn't reconcile why it didn't forbade slavery. Just knowing how nuanced the subject matter is it's a huge help to understand that stance. Great video 👍
Gambling Forbidden - no buying, no selling, no consuming Alcohol Forbidden - no buying, no selling, no consuming Usury Forbidden - no buying, no selling, no consuming Slavery ?
as salam aleykoum brother, you have to think about the consequences. What would have happened if you stopped outright slavery, men and women with no more people to serve, no food, no home, no work. It would have lead to poor people living in the street with no incomes. What could have happened ? Stealing, prostitution, maybe even murder. But look at how the Quran is perfect, it asks and encourage the believers to free the slaves, even marry the believers among them and making them free. In this way, slavery decrease little by little without all the problem states before. Hope it gave you a new perspective, may Allah keep us steadfast and brothers. as salam alaykum
@@Blackbeard1222 what a bizarre thing to say? ............. people are poor and hungry, so instead of giving them zakat, you should enslave them?.............. are you mentally unhinged dude? .............
the excuses moslems make for slavery........... they ve lost their mind! ........ slavery is wrong and it should be banned....... not encouraged........ what is wrong with these people? smh
Paul, thank you for your blogs! I have learned a lot from them. I hope you host Professor Roy Casagrande. He is a wealth of knowledge on Islamic civilization and history.
Very nice discussion and amazing arguments. One thing I would suggest for your next episode with Dr. Jonathan Brown is Mukataba, where a slave can free himself by signing a contract of prescribed time and duties.
The contrast and description of the Atlantic slave trade from. Minutes 1:07 going forward was vivid. Maybe BT should clip it for TH-cam shorts. Absolutely fascinating discussion and I highly recommend it.
Wow. What an insightful eye-opening podcast! Best one by Paul in recent times. In a dystopian mad-max future, slavery will come back. Never thot of that, but boy does that make sense!
This could not have been done any better. He did not glorify slavery. He presented it as a reality of life. He repeated several times the punch line: The Quran is obsessed with emancipation! Great job Dr. Brown and our precious brother Paul!
Describe the characteristics of the hospitality industry Explain the relationship between the hospitality and tourism industries Discuss career prospects and career paths, within the hospitality industry Define what is meant by fringe benefits Describe what is involved in shift work Explain what is meant by service efficiency Identify the classification of accommodation Explain the hotel classification/rating system Discuss the different types of accommodation
People love to say Islam promotes slavery no Islam put laws in place for slavery because without these laws these people would have just had a lot worse done to them slowly witth these laws they eventually got rid of slavery
The Prophet said, feed them what you eat and dress them with what you wear. Everyone is born free. Qur'an gives right for a person that has ended up in slavery to earn freedom.
@@優さん-n7m thank you I am a revert Islam and prophet Muhammad (PBUH) was a great man I have heard many things but people always take it out of context for the sake of their argument
@@Raphonrelationshipsthe haters haven’t eveb watched the video, and are already hating😂. I love it so much how much they hate us. May Allah SWT keep us steadfast to the deen al haqq. Amin
@@AsifKhan-hf9zywhat islamic slavery 1300 years old . Form before of islamic law there was slavery and what 100 years you are taking about 😂😂 do you know anything about European slavery. And in islamic law no one can make a free man slave like happened in most of the part of world . And in islamic law you cannot beat him or you have set him free . And in islam there nothing salvery the malkul yamin means the captive of wars those who came to do wars and womens come with them can only take as malkul yamin. . 😅 You don't know nothing abt history and islam so better to study first 😅
Exactly. The Elite have been attacking human freedom a long time. Before the industrial revolution people lived and worked in family units often on their own homestead and lived a life of varied activity,growing food,keeping livestock,doing whatever industrial process.,mainly cloth weaving,was their principal source of income but they were not tied to the clock or a timetable. If they wanted to take day off and work extra hours next day they could.
@@AsifKhan-hf9zyhahaha can you show us one exemple of muslim slavery exemple like Cotton industry in Manchester? Can you? 😂 Keep your propagande piece of sh*t !
Sura 90 The City “1. No! I swear by this City! 2. And you, you are a resident in this City - 3. And by the father and what he begets! 4. Surely, We have created man for a life of struggle. 5. Does he think that no one will be able to do anything against him? 6. He says: “I have wasted many goods”. 7. Does he think that no one has seen him? 8. Have We not given him two eyes, 9. and one tongue and two lips? 10. Did We not guide him to the two ways? 11. But he does not take the difficult path! 12. And who shall tell thee what is the difficult way? 13. *It is to unloose a yoke [to free a slave],* 14. or to feed, in a day of famine, 15. an orphan close relative 16. or a poor man in the end. 17. And it is, moreover, to be of those who believe and enjoin endurance on each other, and enjoin mercy on each other. 18. These are the people of the Right; 19. while those who disbelieve in Our verses are the people of the left. 20. The Fire will close in on them.”
Love this Sura so much. I love that Allah has Muslims break the chains of historical slavery and trafficking and oppression. To free a slave is atonement for one’s sins, and all human beings are made equally in worth and spirit. Ameen . No caste systems in Islam. No superiority or inferiority complexes after reading Quran. 🌴🌴🌴🌴♥️
As Algerian we differ tremendously from Middle East, I lived there and I realised that doing things as Islam says could end poverty and guarantee a good future for their children, having a family: a couple from a poor country you give them a home, they eat what you eat etc you pay for their children studies etc and of course with their agreement they work at home, cooking, driving etc that could save so many people actually and is way more human than slavery that still exists on the west, day after day we hear more and more horror: Africans etc who were abducted and had to work in some European countries 😊
It would be very useful to have another talk with Dr Brown regarding the topic of “what the right hand posses”(sex with the slaves, concubine etc). Thank you as always
Surah 33:50 - Saheeh International >> O Prophet, indeed We have made lawful to you your wives to whom you have given their due compensation1 and those your right hand possesses from what Allāh has returned to you [of captives] and the daughters of your paternal uncles and the daughters of your paternal aunts and the daughters of your maternal uncles and the daughters of your maternal aunts who emigrated with you and a believing woman if she gives herself to the Prophet [and] if the Prophet wishes to marry her; [this is] only for you, excluding the [other] believers. We certainly know what We have made obligatory upon them concerning their wives and those their right hands possess, [but this is for you] in order that there will be upon you no discomfort [i.e., difficulty]. And ever is Allāh Forgiving and Merciful.> O Prophet, indeed We have made lawful to you your wives to whom you have given their due compensation1 and those your right hand possesses from what Allāh has returned to you [of captives] …
Jonathan Brown is an excellent islamic scholar. Very knowledgeable. I would also recommend people who can understand Urdu/Hindi to watch Pakistani Islamic Scholar Javed Ahmed Ghamidi videos on topic of slavery on TH-cam. He is, in my opinion, the best islamic scholar in the last 500 years.
I recommend that you learn Arabic so that you can gain access to the corpus of Islamic knowledge, most of which remains untranslated. Then you won't be taken for a ride by people like Javed.
@@عبدالرحمنعبدالله-ز4م There is not a single new thing javed ahmad ghamidi came up with. It's already said by the ulemas before. He just present it better because he got a strong command over the language. All his views regarding hijab, return of jesus, riba etc. nothing new in it. Already said by the ulemas before. But since we muslims love jump to conclusions without studying various views.
@@zeeshanhaider1709 He's a Kaffir who rejects the Qiraat. No actual authoritative scholar takes him seriously. Take a look at what Mufti Taqi has said about him or is he somebody who hasn't looked at "different viewpoints" Also you prob can't even read Arabic so how do you know the works of the past 500 years of scholarship. You and ur ghamidi cult is hilarious.
Abu Dhar said, "I was with the Prophet (SAW) one day and I heard him saying: "There is something I fear for my Ummah than the Dajjal." It was then that I became afraid, so I said: "Oh Rasool Allah! Which thing is that?" He (SAW) said; "Misguided and astray scholars."
Men are deceived to make people sin by Throat off bad people to shed blood Marry many women here in the name of helping them and get many in heaven Go far place to Rotate around black stone Take jaziya from mankind of other race saying third class Finally Make AI to say this is what God says
that is the excuse moslems give for their religion............ none of them BAN slavery themselves......... but make these grotesque smart ass statements instead as posted above..........
Limited liability was considered a sin and caused a moral outrage in the church upon inception in Europe 400 years ago (Piketty, 2014). Limited liability is forbidden in Islam. Trans Atlantic slavery was enabled by an immoral means of raising capital.
As to the Arab-Muslim slave trade, Ghanaian professor John Azumah helped set the record straight in “The Legacy of Arab-Islam in Africa.” In an interview about his book, Azumah said the following: Over 28 Million Africans have been sold as slaves in the Muslim world during the past 14 centuries While much has been written concerning the Transatlantic slave trade, surprisingly little attention has been given to the Islamic slave trade across the Sahara, the Red Sea and the Indian Ocean. While the European involvement in the Transatlantic slave trade to the Americas lasted for just over three centuries, the Arab involvement in the slave trade has lasted fourteen centuries, and in some parts of the Muslim world is still continuing to this day. A comparison of the Muslim slave trade to the American slave trade reveals some interesting contrasts. While two out of every three slaves shipped across the Atlantic were men, the proportions were reversed in the Muslim slave trade. Two women for every man were enslaved by the Muslims. While the mortality rate for slaves being transported across the Atlantic was as high as 10%, the percentage of slaves dying in transit in the Transsahara and East African slave trade was between 80 and 90%! That meant that between 140 and 280 million Africans were murdered by the islamic slave trade over these 1400 years. While almost all the slaves shipped across the Atlantic were for agricultural work, most of the slaves destined for the Muslim Middle East were for sexual exploitation as concubines, in harems, and for military service. apya.org/arab-slave-trade/
Islam took slavery and turned it into a type of work situation. Where u had the option to negotiate ur way out. And it put strict rules in place to protect the slaves. And encouraged freeing of slaves by making it a highly rewarding act. Those who are stuck inside their head and cant see beyond their own world and own time, life and preferences, need to understand this first. You cant judge other ppl or culture if u are not part of it. Thats fundamental concept of Anthropology. Saying Slavery could have been easily abolished right away shows they really live in their dream world and have no understanding of the complexity of how the world functioned or even functions today outside of their buble. Sadly if Muslims were sincere, it would have been abolished a while back. But they weren't. How many ppl in ur personal life do u know who gives up things that benefits them for greater good or even for God ? Not many really. Just how women got back stabbed later by the society and was cheated out of their rights, so did the poor and anyone vulnerable. But thats how life is. For Muslims there is a next world though and Allah is the most just and merciful.
FORNICATION - no buying no selling no manufacturing no consuming ALCOHOL - no buying no selling no manufacturing no consuming USURY - no buying no selling no manufacturing no consuming SLAVES - yes buying yes selling yes manufacturing yes consuming
It’s amazing how Paul brings on people who have no Arabic background speaking about the religion and defend the Prophet being insulted. Yet Muslims who have actually studied in reputable institutions in the Islamic world are seldom seen. What a weird state of affairs.
@@wanfatinsuryaniewa7007 he does not. He couldn’t translate when sitting down next to Abdullah Bin Bayyah. So called experts who deliberately marginalise inter generational Muslims and take the limelight based on you know what.
people who "speak Arabic" rarely talk about slavery............ they just talk about the quran......... and pretend all the nasty evil things moslems do, dont exist.......... they try to hide behind their "arabic knowlege"........... "oh i am just a scholar of arabic. i dont know anythinig about whats going on in the world. dont ask me".......... and their cadre of monkey followers who admire them for their ignorance.........
@@wanfatinsuryaniewa7007 Paul deleted my comment so I’ll write it again. When speaking and translating in front of Abdullah Bin Bayyah he could not correctly translate the sentences he was told to translate. This man said he supported the Prophet Muhammad being insulted. Just because you are European does not make you understand Islam more than us. The European convert should humble himself and learn like everybody else and not be wined and dined and paraded like a trophy. This page gives of Eurocentric vibes.
What a great discussion. For the longest time I couldn’t reconcile the idea that slavery still existed in Muslim societies even after the righteous caliphs. I would really like to know more about the concubine slavery.
As to the Arab-Muslim slave trade, Ghanaian professor John Azumah helped set the record straight in “The Legacy of Arab-Islam in Africa.” In an interview about his book, Azumah said the following: Over 28 Million Africans have been sold as slaves in the Muslim world during the past 14 centuries While much has been written concerning the Transatlantic slave trade, surprisingly little attention has been given to the Islamic slave trade across the Sahara, the Red Sea and the Indian Ocean. While the European involvement in the Transatlantic slave trade to the Americas lasted for just over three centuries, the Arab involvement in the slave trade has lasted fourteen centuries, and in some parts of the Muslim world is still continuing to this day. A comparison of the Muslim slave trade to the American slave trade reveals some interesting contrasts. While two out of every three slaves shipped across the Atlantic were men, the proportions were reversed in the Muslim slave trade. Two women for every man were enslaved by the Muslims. While the mortality rate for slaves being transported across the Atlantic was as high as 10%, the percentage of slaves dying in transit in the Transsahara and East African slave trade was between 80 and 90%! That meant that between 140 and 280 million Africans were murdered by the islamic slave trade over these 1400 years. While almost all the slaves shipped across the Atlantic were for agricultural work, most of the slaves destined for the Muslim Middle East were for sexual exploitation as concubines, in harems, and for military service. apya.org/arab-slave-trade/ And concubine slavery is the permission by Mohammed's "the god" (that is all that allah means) to rape women captured in battle (surah 33:50)
Surah 33:50 - Saheeh International >> O Prophet, indeed We have made lawful to you your wives to whom you have given their due compensation1 and those your right hand possesses from what Allāh has returned to you [of captives] and the daughters of your paternal uncles and the daughters of your paternal aunts and the daughters of your maternal uncles and the daughters of your maternal aunts who emigrated with you and a believing woman if she gives herself to the Prophet [and] if the Prophet wishes to marry her; [this is] only for you, excluding the [other] believers. We certainly know what We have made obligatory upon them concerning their wives and those their right hands possess, [but this is for you] in order that there will be upon you no discomfort [i.e., difficulty]. And ever is Allāh Forgiving and Merciful.> O Prophet, indeed We have made lawful to you your wives to whom you have given their due compensation1 and those your right hand possesses from what Allāh has returned to you [of captives] …
Great podcast.the only issue is dr jonathan loves to talk so much that he never lets brother paul finish his sentence. Looking forward to the next podcast on concubines.
Hi paul we met at hyde park once! Please call Jonathan Brown again and do a podcast on age of Ayesha ra and History of child marriages and moral conundrum around it!
It is not just that the industrial revolution gave room for thought of morality of slavery, rather keeping slaves, feeding and housing and nursing good workers back to fitness when they fell ill etc, slaves became an extra expense they did not want. It was economical - the moral reasoning was the excuse.
Brother Paul how can a person who think freedom of speech is to insult the prophet of 1.5 billion people and torture them can give us the true picture behind the slavery banned in Islam step by step
slavery is not banned in islam................... slavery is 100% halal........... however, usury is banned, alcohol is banned, gambling is banned............ slavery, no problem
I was thinking about this specific subject yesterday because it bothered me that I didn't know enough about it and today this drops! All I can say is Alhamdulillah and also a priceless channel you have here brother Paul. May Allah be pleased with your efforts.
Very known Hadith, Abu Hurayra said, “The Prophet (may the peace and salutations be upon him) said, “A child cannot repay his father unless he finds him as a slave and then buys him and sets him free.” Sahih Muslim
Yes,That's true. African Kings engaged in non stop war activity and thus always had a prolific lot of captured prisoners of war to sell on and of course the entry of white buyers into the market added keenness to the bargainingprice.
Assalamualaikum. We heard quite a lot of historical accounts on Jesus and Christians and answers a lot of questions and early confusions on Jesus and Christians in your blog. Do you have a plan to dig deeper into the history such 1. The Seven Sleepers to know when and where are this event takes place, were they christians?. 2. Hisotry of Christians in the Arabian Peninsular such as Waraqah bin Naufal, Bahira/Sergius?/Jirjis?, Prophet Companion Salman Al-Farisi. How far they deviate from Western Christians, do they follow the actual Injil? These two events are very interesting.
Would that you knew what the Ascent is. It is the freeing of a slave, or the feeding in a day of hunger an orphaned near of kin. or a needy man in misery. Moreover it is to be of those who believe and counsel one another to be steadfast and enjoin mercy on one another. Those who do this shall be on the right hand."
excellent discourse however there is only one error, the liberation of Umm Walad was legislated only during the reign of Umar Ibn Al-Khattab. It was never forbidden to sell Umm Walad during the lifetime of Prophet Muhammad ﷺ. There are authentic Ahadith on the authority of Jabir Ibn Abdullah to support and corroborate this. Barakallahu Feekum
@@JusticeIsBetterThanPeace precisely, it can be considered a continuation curve in the evolving legislation pertaining to slavery reforms. Umar abolished slavery among the Arabs during his reign, none of his reforms were challenged or nullified by his successors and they are upheld by Sunni schools of law to this very day as inviolable (the example cited by Dr Brown being a prime case, with the prohibition of selling a child bearing slave)
MashAllah, thank you for the clarification. I watch your content and because I do, I was able to remember this when he made the claim that few ever forbade slavery outright before 1700. Jzk for all you do in educating us.
So tell me, which Arabic version of the quran do you use and why that one? Or do you not even know that there are some 40 different versions of the Arabic quran we know of? Of course all these qurans were written by unknown authors. And how do you deal with all the mistakes, discrepancies, inconsistencies and contradictions in that quran as well as the approval of evil such as raping women who have been captures in battle (surah 33:50) which is adultery and wife beating (surah 4:34) as well as child marriage (surah 65:4) which means that Mohammed and his allah approved of raping little prepubescent girls. And we see that Mohammed led by example when he married a 6 year old child and then raped that child when it was just 9 years old. Clearly Mohammed disqualified himself as a prophet of GOD by the evil he perpetrated. And remember all of islam is only based what Mohammed maybe recited and how he lived. So tell me, why do you even believe that you will be with GOD our Father in heaven on judgement day when you follow Mohammed? And do show the quran verses on which you base your belief.
@@johnzuma4688so basically the 40 Quran argument is a myth that was presented by Jay Smith there's was only one Quran with 10 qirats and no nearly all scholars believe that Muhammad peace be upon him is the author of the Quran (we believe it's god but whatever) so he's not some anonymous author your mixing the bible with the Quran Plus Here are some recent scholarly perspectives on the authorship of the Quran: 1. David Thomas (historian): "The Quran is traditionally understood as the direct revelation to Muhammad, yet the historical process of its compilation involves a community of believers who played key roles." 2. Michael Cook (Islamic historian): "The question of authorship is complex; while Muhammad is central, the contributions of his followers in preserving and transmitting the text are significant." And yeah there's no contradiction or mistakes in the Quran your mixing the bible with the Quran again And you said that surah 33:50 is about raping woman in war first of all I would like you to show me where is the word rape found in the verse your lying because the Truth is that your bible allows the rape of women Deuteronomy 22:28-29 New International Version the poor woman can't even get a divorce and surah 4:34 may give the impression that you can beat your wife but the prophet clarified in a Hadith that you can't cause an injury or leave a mark when "beating" only the disobedience wifes while the bible says in Deuteronomy 25:11-12 (ESV) that you can cut the hand of your wife if she protected you Plus you mentioned surah 65:4 And you said that Allah approved of raping child concubines and child marriage first of all where in the verse does it say that you can mary or rape anyone and where in the verse can we find the word "child" or "kid"so you are lying about my religion and my book and the funny thing is that your bible made it permissible for the prophets in the old testament to rape and sell little girls Exodus 21:7-11 Deuteronomy 21:10-14 Numbers 31:7-18 Judges 21:10-12 and you said that Mohammed (pbuh) raped our mother Aisha when she was 9 that's absolutely false Aisha was mentally and physically mature Sahih Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 8, Hadith 465 confirmes that it was mature before the prophet consummated the marriage with her and in the other hand we see the prophets of the old testament killing children by the order of there god in Samuel 15 3 which is way worse than any child marriage
Not much has yet been said about what happens to the "enslaver". He is certainly changed in the long run by the seemingly inevitable enslavement of others.
@@johnzuma4688depends i guess. Looking at the living condition where "free men" are in constant starving state. And dont get medical attention, i might want to be a slave from a slaver who cares about my well being.
Surah 33:50 - Saheeh International >> O Prophet, indeed We have made lawful to you your wives to whom you have given their due compensation1 and those your right hand possesses from what Allāh has returned to you [of captives] and the daughters of your paternal uncles and the daughters of your paternal aunts and the daughters of your maternal uncles and the daughters of your maternal aunts who emigrated with you and a believing woman if she gives herself to the Prophet [and] if the Prophet wishes to marry her; [this is] only for you, excluding the [other] believers. We certainly know what We have made obligatory upon them concerning their wives and those their right hands possess, [but this is for you] in order that there will be upon you no discomfort [i.e., difficulty]. And ever is Allāh Forgiving and Merciful.> O Prophet, indeed We have made lawful to you your wives to whom you have given their due compensation1 and those your right hand possesses from what Allāh has returned to you [of captives] …
Since War is human condition, the losers will have their rights confiscated sometimes rightfully sometimes wrongfully. They will be imprisoned and a prisoner has his rights restricted it's a kind of slavery. So slavery is not going to be entirely removed or eliminated. You can't have aggressors who attacked your nation first go scot-free without repucusions.
this is not the problem with moslem slavery.............. the problem with moslem slavery is that IT ENCOURAGES SLAVE TRADE........ moslems buy slaves.......... so non-moslems enslave people and sell them to moslems............ its like crops.......... if moslems pay cash for crops, then someone will be encouraged to harvest crops.......... replace crops with slaves............ same situation..........
In addition to stopping the origins of slavery, Islam actively encouraged the freeing of slaves, allowing their gradual release to reduce social disruption. According to Alla's regulations, it required the release of a believing slave as a form of punishment in manslaughter situations. (( Quran 4 : 92 And never is it for a believer to kill a believer except by mistake. And whoever kills a believer by mistake - then the freeing of a believing slave and a compensation payment presented to the deceased's family [is required] unless they give [up their right as] charity. But if the deceased was from a people at war with you and he was a believer - then [only] the freeing of a believing slave; and if he was from a people with whom you have a treaty - then a compensation payment presented to his family and the freeing of a believing slave. And whoever does not find [one or cannot afford to buy one] - then [instead], a fast for two months consecutively, [seeking] acceptance of repentance from Allah. And Allah is ever Knowing and Wise. ))
One of the forgiveness of sins recommended by the Koran is to free slavery, that means Islam encourages the elimination of slavery but in a gradual process
There’s Hadith saying it’s better to gift a slave than to free one. Also that proves that enslaving someone is a bad thing to do to someone otherwise there wouldn’t be a reward for freeing them
Since War is human condition, the losers will have their rights confiscated sometimes rightfully sometimes wrongfully. They will be imprisoned and a prisoner has his rights restricted it's a kind of slavery. So slavery is not going to be entirely removed or eliminated. You can't have aggressors who attacked your nation first go scot-free without repucusions.
@heytemboumaza6369 Humans have protected rights and sovereignty that animals don't. Animals dont have the same rights. In the USA, this is protected in our constitution and bill of rights. If you want to argue that slavery is acceptable in modern times or that it was excusable in the past by today's standards, I won't accept your pressupositions that humans don't have inalienable rights. This is a moral and ethical and legal argument. It happened in the past and still happens, and by today's standards, it's not exuseable.
@@SQUATCH100 what slavery are we talking about ? slavery wasn't practiced the same way throughout history, western racial based slavery is the most disgusting vile and inhumane form of slavery that ever existed, and guess what, the west is still practicing slavery to this day. don't give me that bullshit about your constitution.
Respected, In Quran, there are very limited Absolute Orders and in many cases many options suggested. Not Fix Orders. Like marriage, 4 wives allowed subject to restrictions, when people have unlimited wives, or today undeclared extra marital relationship. Similarly Slavery was a part of Economics/ Employment. It's not forced to have Slaves. In today's life it's Employees. However Physical Slavery has been abolished but Mental Slavery has been increased. If we study Footballers contracts with their clubs is someway Slavery and in many other fields too.
Sura 51: AD-DARIYAT (WHO SPLASH) 56. *I have not created the jinns and men except that they may worship Me.* Sura 31: LUQMAN (LUQMAN) 26. *To Allah belongs all that is in the heavens and on earth. Allah is He Who is self-sufficient, He is Worthy of praise!* These two verses reveal two important facts: -Everything that exists belongs to God -Human beings are God's servants. Taking these two parameters into account, a human being who enslaved another human being would be a thief, and worse, a disbeliever, for he would have stolen God's property. This is corroborated by these three hadiths which formally forbid slavery: BUKHARI Volume 3, Book 34, Number 430: Narrated by Abu Huraira: The Prophet said, “Allah said, 'I will be against 3 people on the Day of Resurrection: 1-One who makes a pact in My Name, but betrays it. *2-One who sells a free person (as a slave) and enriches himself with the price.* 3-And one who employs a laborer, makes him do all the work but doesn't pay him.” BUKHARI Volume 3, Book 36, Number 470: Narrated by Abu Huraira: The Prophet said, “Allah said, 'I will be the adversary of 3 types of people on the Day of Resurrection: 1-One who makes a pact in My Name, but betrays it. *2-One who sells a free person (as a slave) and enriches himself with the price.* 3-And one who employs a laborer, makes him do all the work but does not pay him.” ABU DAWUD Book 2, Number 593 : Narrated by Abdullah Ibn Umar: The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) said, “There are three types of people whose prayer will not be accepted by Allah: a person who goes to people who don't like him, a person who comes dibaran, meaning he comes to it (the prayer) too late, and *a person who enslaves a free man or woman."*
1:18:48 According to Islamic tradition mother of the Ishmaelite Arabs is an Egyptian slave woman (Hagar) And the mother of Ibrahim (Maria, the Copt) was a slave woman and he is the son of the prophet muhammed peace and blessings upon him
I recently did a sort of deep dive on this topic, and what I found out that slavery is categorically forbidden in the Quran, and what is often said about slavery in Islam, they are just prisoners of war, and those prisoners are very particularly distinct than normal prisoners of war because almost always these prisoners are due capital punishment because of their crimes against Muslims. As for the woman prisoners, firstly because they were with the enemy combatants they should be taken just as culpable as fighting against Muslims hence same treatment as any combatant or indorsee. Hence, after victory of any war whoever left alive are due capital punishment, so in that case Islam gave four actionable options, 1. Deliver the capital punishment, 2. Take ransom, 3. Make them servants and 4. Forgive them. That's why to say Islam has slavery is to say US justice system which believes capital punishment is cruel so we just imprisoned criminals for life is also form of slavery because Islam also reduce the punishment from capital punishment to be a servant and not even indefinitely. And it's the choice of the other party whether to choose being a servant or receive their capital punishment. So, it's not even a forced to be a servant let alone actual slavery.
You have been lied to my friend. Surah 33:50 - Saheeh International >> O Prophet, indeed We have made lawful to you your wives to whom you have given their due compensation1 and those your right hand possesses from what Allāh has returned to you [of captives] and the daughters of your paternal uncles and the daughters of your paternal aunts and the daughters of your maternal uncles and the daughters of your maternal aunts who emigrated with you and a believing woman if she gives herself to the Prophet [and] if the Prophet wishes to marry her; [this is] only for you, excluding the [other] believers. We certainly know what We have made obligatory upon them concerning their wives and those their right hands possess, [but this is for you] in order that there will be upon you no discomfort [i.e., difficulty]. And ever is Allāh Forgiving and Merciful.> O Prophet, indeed We have made lawful to you your wives to whom you have given their due compensation1 and those your right hand possesses from what Allāh has returned to you [of captives] …
@@johnzuma4688 if you really think you know more than me, then I can provide you my research which is the result of my said deep dive and it will answer every evil thing you see in so called islamic slavery and why they don't exist in Islam.
@@skrm5311 You say >> If you really think you know more than me, then I can provide you my research which will refute every allegation on this topic. > O Prophet, indeed We have made lawful to you your wives to whom you have given their due compensation1 and those your right hand possesses from what Allāh has returned to you [of captives] and the daughters of your paternal uncles and the daughters of your paternal aunts and the daughters of your maternal uncles and the daughters of your maternal aunts who emigrated with you and a believing woman if she gives herself to the Prophet [and] if the Prophet wishes to marry her; [this is] only for you, excluding the [other] believers. We certainly know what We have made obligatory upon them concerning their wives and those their right hands possess, [but this is for you] in order that there will be upon you no discomfort [i.e., difficulty]. And ever is Allāh Forgiving and Merciful.> O Prophet, indeed We have made lawful to you your wives to whom you have given their due compensation1 and those your right hand possesses from what Allāh has returned to you [of captives] …
I read from the King James version. In 1 Peter 2:18, the scripture is a metaphor, a symbol. It's referring to suffering for Jesus like when Jesus told Ananias about sending Saul to him that he's going to show Paul how much he will suffer for his name because people will attack him like Saul did when he felt like the teaching of Jesus was contrary to his teaching in the Old covenant of Judaism. Read the entire chapter for understanding. You don't go to the Bible for wisdom or moral support. You read the Bible to learn about God and Spiritual guidance. The Bible itself, is about God's relationship to society through the Israelites after the flood until the birth of Jesus. The New Testament of the Bible is a continuation of the Old Testament but under a New Covenant which is the Crucifixion of Jesus Christ and his commandments. We don't follow the old law because it includes killing certain animals for our sins. There would be no animals on earth today to make an atonement with God for your sins if Jesus didn't die for all man's sins. Islam is a one man religion. There's no relationship between God and Muhammad in the Quran. It's just a book of instructions. How can his word be validated to be true, if only he said that the angel Gabriel told him the teachings for 3 days in a cave. In the Hadith, it says, while Muhammad was a grown man and had other wives, that he married Aisha at the age 6 but didn't lay with her until she was 9. The Book of Mormon is also a one man religion. Joseph Smith said that Moroni, Mormon's son came to life or from the heavens and approached him to tell him where golf plates with teachings on it was located in a cave. Then after a few days returned to him and took the gold plates to heaven. Flesh and blood don't enter the kingdom of God and neither does material things. Buddha is not a religion. It's a philosophy by one man from India. Hindu, again a teaching that started with one person and if you feel comfortable following a religion that uses animals as a symbol of their god and believe that when you die you can return as another human being or an animal, depending on how you were on earth, then do you, but when you die, your spirit is not going to enter someone's else's body after the baby grows in them.
Salaam Alaykum, Mr. Jonathan has been dividing the Muslims, who have already been divided. He deviates some of the Islamic teachings. For instance, the law of homosexuality. Also, he couldn't substantiate with regard to Islam and slavery. He merely repeats to the old tactics of colonial countries to share the blame. I wonder if he could debate the topic with a knowledgeable person rather than engaging with a TH-camr.
![BOWKYLION - วิงวอน (ex-change) [Official MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/cLdnZWDaO-w/mqdefault.jpg)
*Slavery and Islam with Dr Jonathan Brown*
( abridged timestamps )
0:00:02 Introduction : Welcoming, and introducing Dr Jonathan Brown, and his books
0:01:37 Dr Brown defines "slavery" [[ there is no agreed upon definition of slavery ]]
0:12:03 Two broad historical approaches to define slavery - legal, and social
0:21:16 Distinction between regular, and slavery coercion
0:24:48 Intendent servants were slaves acc to modern day slavery
0:32:48 Slavery conundrum
0:37:00 Paradoxical three axioms
0:42:32 Prior to 1700, slavery was not deemed wrong acc to any religious, philosophical, and intellectual tradition
0:45:03 Moral awakening narrative
0:47:01 Slavery is nowhere condemned in the Bible
0:49:29 Problems with the argument of many modern Christians / liberal theologians / progressive Muslims
0:51:51 How to resolve
0:54:58 Prior to the 1800s, no society actually even proposed to abolish slavery as institution
0:59:10 Morality is just custom as long as it is permitted by the Sharī'ah
1:04:28 ....and thus Islam removes the slavery conundrum
1:08:04 The vio#lence of the transatlantic slave-trade was without precedent
1:10:15 There is no plantation slavery in Islamic civilisation
1:13:41 Abolition of slavery in Islam
1:14:22 Islamic teachings on slavery
1:20:43 Unprecedented emphasis on emancipation by the Qur'an, and Sunnah of Prophet (saws)
1:22:17 Reason why the Qur'an has not abolished slavery at once
1:25:12 Muslim arguments on abolition of slavery
1:32:30 Thanking Dr Jonathan Brown, recommending his book _Slavery and Islam_ , and future plan for stream on "concubinage issue"
Paul we want another podcast with Brown. Pleaseeeee. This was excellent and just perfection. keep doing the great work.
This has been a very eye opening lecture. My perception about morality, not just slavery, has just been changed. I look at history differently now. Wow.
Westerner: "Islam is Slavery"
Me: "You pay 30% of your income tax to keep yourself out of Jail".
Westerner:..... "Oh but that money is paid for better Hospitals, Health care, better roads"
Me: When justifying colonial slavery, white man said; in return we provide clothing, food and warm place to sleep".
😉
Westerner: " "
#PleaseReflect
New Update:
Take a listen to Daniel Haqiqatjou
Regarding owning a slave
th-cam.com/video/F0VP3kfecRE/w-d-xo.htmlsi=xK2DfxSQl1phmS21
@@MustafaMuhammed1981what 😂 Muslims must be half wits.
Definition is simple - one person owning another person as property.
Stupidity!
@@MustafaMuhammed1981 Dont be daft, slavery is very easily defined. Its when you consider another human your property, legally and by force.
@@EricAlHarb so can a slave be a ruler of a vast empire with multitudes under his authority?
@@BloggingTheology definitely not. Slavery is defined by a power dynamic.
You’re equivocating on the word slave.
It is and always was defined by the ownership of one person as legal property.
Dr.Brown is genious. Thank you Mr.Williams for this most excellent discussion.
He’s a half wit. Which must be the reason why he’s a Muslim.
Slavery is one person owning another person as their personal property.
Not really he supports the right of gay marriage and also supports the right for people to insult the prophet Mohammad SAW
Wallahy idk how he has these beliefs, he looks like a smart person
@@tklthelegend2100I think his reasoning for supporting free speech which included that is because he thought that if we gave government the power to control speech then in the future they will censor Muslims' speech. He still believes it is wrong to insult the Prophet Sallallahu 'Alaihi wa Sallam morally. We can disagree with him and consider his reasoning to be flawed but we should not misrepresent his views. We should try to understand what the other person means when he is saying what he is saying.
I just recently bought Slavery and Islam 3 days ago on Kindle and Subhanallah this comes in my notifications. How lovely thanks Paul and Dr Jonathan Brown 👍🏾😁
Man’s a half wit, you wasted your money.
Slavery is one person owning another person as their personal property.
As usual, Paul’s channel has a great topic and a wonderful guest. May Allah increase us in the knowledge of His deen.
Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold forbidden that which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book (Jews and Christians), until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. Quran 9:29
@@moholah3745 Even Christianity doesn't treat the people that invade them with that much decency! Subhanallah. Thank you for this reminder about God's mercy. Allhamdulilah
@@moholah3745
Learn more about Surah and its context..
As for the verse-To fully understand this verse we need to bear in mind that Quranic verses are of two types. General verses talk about belief in Allah, good manners, and acts of worship. Specific verses, such as this verse, were revealed in regards to particular situations. This sûrah came at a time when the pagans of Arabia (and their allies) repeatedly violated treaties they had signed with the Prophet (ﷺ). Muslims had to fight for the survival of their newly established state in Medina. So this verse discusses dealing with those who violated their agreements and attacked the Muslims. Offenders were fought, unless they stopped their aggression. If they chose not to accept Islam, they were obligated to pay Jizya-tax.As for jizya-
Taxation systems have existed since ancient times. There are several references in the Old Testament (e.g., Ezra 4:20). In the New Testament, Jesus allows paying taxes to Caesar (Luke 20:25). Under Islamic rule, all individuals had financial obligations-Muslims paid zakâh (2.5% of their savings) and non-Muslims (ⱬimmîs) were required to pay jizyah (tax for protection from foreign enemies). The jizyah was an average of one dinar (4.25 g of gold) annually. Women, children, the elderly, the clergy, the poor, and those who were unable to work were exempt. Those who opted to join the army were also exempt. Poor ⱬimmîs were supported financially by the state. Muslim rulers refunded the jizyah if they failed to protect their non-Muslim subjects.
thank you, Brother Paul and Dr brown jazk.
Thank you for bringing Jonathan back.😊
I loooooove Jonathan Brown. He is absolutely brilliant. His breakdowns and examples are really really good. And he pushed us to think about things that are important but people take from granted, but all the manipulation and power is in these gaps of meaning kept in darkness.
Thoroughly enjoyed the discussion. I got this book sometime ago, but haven't been able to read it yet. Need to pick it from the shelf now 🙂
Dear brother Paul Allah bless you are doing great work on this planet and we love
Sura 2 Al Baqara verse 177 "Pious kindness does not consist in turning your faces towards the East or the West. But godly kindness is to believe in Allah, the Last Day, the Angels, the Book and the Prophets, to give of one's wealth, however much one loves it, to relatives, orphans, the needy, destitute travellers and those who ask for help, and to *untie yokes,* to perform Salat and pay Zakat. And those who fulfil their pledges when they have pledged themselves, those who endure hardship and sickness and when fighting rages, these are the truthful and these are the truly pious!"
untying yokes = freeing slaves
Narrated 'Aisha: The things which annul the prayers were mentioned before me. They said, "Prayer is annulled by a dog, a donkey and a woman (if they pass in front of the praying people)." I said, "You have made us (i.e. women) dogs. I saw the Prophet praying while I used to lie in my bed between him and the Qibla. Whenever I was in need of something, I would slip away. for I disliked to face him." Sahih Bukhari 511
@@moholah3745
Well,Women are a distraction for men.When a beautiful woman passes 4 out of 10 men will look at them
So,Yeah that's why men don't pray with women at the same place cause it will cause distraction. It doesn't mean he compared dogs with women.
May I propose the following agenda for our next discussion:
1) Focus the conversation on slavery in Arabia during the time of the Quran's revelation.
2) Origins of slavery: Thesis - Slaves were primarily prisoners of war (POWs) from defeated aggressor tribes.
3) Islam's approach to addressing slavery: POWs could no longer be enslaved; freeing slaves is an expiation for sins; violence against slaves is forbidden; slaves could marry; use of the term 'slave' is prohibited, and Islam introduced self-purchase agreements for slaves.
4) Why didn't Islam abolish slavery immediately? Thesis - The absence of a social welfare system made immediate abolition impractical for the economic integration of slaves.
number 3 is wrong as muslims took pows as slaves
Westerner: "Islam is Slavery"
Me: "You pay 30% income tax to keep yourself out of Jail".
Westerner:..... "Oh but that money is paid for better Hospitals, Health care, better roads.
Me: "That's what the white man said when justifying colonial slavery, in return we provide clothing, food and warm place to sleep".
😂
Westerner: " "
#PleaseReflect
Excellent point on 3. And we saw what happened in America specifically when the abolition of slavery occurred all at once. Once that occurred there was no true reintegration of the slave class into American society.
How comes Islamic empires and communities were still practicing slavery until late 1800s? What's the difference between them and, say, american slavery?
Did Muslims for 1.5 millenium acted against Islamic teachings?
If there was no welfare system, couldn't Allah give one after all he is all powerful.
what a bunch of insanity, slavery is very very easily defined. The standard definition is owning another human being as personal property. ie. property, you can sell or buy as the case may be.
I was so looking forward to this colab.
O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people. Quran 5:51
@@moholah3745 May I know what the wisdom is behind quoting this verse here?
مُريح جدّا عندما أستمع لمسلمين جدد يتحدّثون اللغة العربية الجميلة بطلاقة ..Mr Jonathan Brown من هؤلاء ..بسم الله تبارك الله
جوناثان مسلم؟
@@ibrahimelmasry-z3k
نعم .
@@ibrahimelmasry-z3k من زمان
Dr. not Mr.
@@عبدالرحمنعبدالله-ز4م
أين المشكل ؟
Paul's new glasses MakcomX style looks good on him.
The reflection on it is kinda distracting
An outstanding guest on an outstanding channel. God bless you both, gentlemen!
what a discussion. thanks for sharing and look forward the next session.
I watched all and it is really an amazing lecture 👏🏽
This was inspirational. Thanks a lot!
As an Arab Muslim, it is insightful to me to listen to Islamic issues being discussed by people from different (i.e., non-Arab) cultural background. Here, for example, your Western background enabled you to discuss the morality of the US Founders & the UN agreements in your introduction. These are sides of which I am not so aware, but yet they affect our collective morality standards due to the globalization. That is why we need Muslims from all over the world to participate in such main issues.
Thank you again; it was informative.
excellent lecture and very thought provoking. bravo!
Absolutely amazing discussion. I’m at work listening and I am utterly locked into this video.
Do you think Paul would be bold enough to interview Avery from the *God Logic* podcasts???
@@Kirk-d7v what’s there for him to be afraid of?
@@RaeKwon-Doe
Which is more factual this podcast or * Dr Bill Warner* on Islamic slavery???
@@Kirk-d7vthis one 😁
@@Kirk-d7vno way you think Islamic slavery is comparable to how bad biblical slavery is. Get out of your bubble son, biblical slavery is the worst form of slavery out there.
I reverted not that long ago and for all the moral guidance the Qur'an has that I outright agreed with or at worse came to rationally understand later on, I still couldn't reconcile why it didn't forbade slavery. Just knowing how nuanced the subject matter is it's a huge help to understand that stance. Great video 👍
Gambling Forbidden - no buying, no selling, no consuming
Alcohol Forbidden - no buying, no selling, no consuming
Usury Forbidden - no buying, no selling, no consuming
Slavery ?
May Allah help you and keep you steadfast brother. Welcome to the ummah
as salam aleykoum brother, you have to think about the consequences. What would have happened if you stopped outright slavery, men and women with no more people to serve, no food, no home, no work. It would have lead to poor people living in the street with no incomes. What could have happened ? Stealing, prostitution, maybe even murder. But look at how the Quran is perfect, it asks and encourage the believers to free the slaves, even marry the believers among them and making them free. In this way, slavery decrease little by little without all the problem states before. Hope it gave you a new perspective, may Allah keep us steadfast and brothers. as salam alaykum
@@Blackbeard1222 what a bizarre thing to say? ............. people are poor and hungry, so instead of giving them zakat, you should enslave them?.............. are you mentally unhinged dude? .............
the excuses moslems make for slavery........... they ve lost their mind! ........ slavery is wrong and it should be banned....... not encouraged........ what is wrong with these people? smh
Paul, thank you for your blogs! I have learned a lot from them. I hope you host Professor Roy Casagrande. He is a wealth of knowledge on Islamic civilization and history.
one of my fav guests.
Very nice discussion and amazing arguments. One thing I would suggest for your next episode with Dr. Jonathan Brown is Mukataba, where a slave can free himself by signing a contract of prescribed time and duties.
This was so interesting. JazakAllah khayr to you both.
Discussion passionnante. Merci à vous.
In the backgrounf he has hadiths. Its beautiful to see this ❤
Good to be back listening to reason!!!
Would you say *God Logic* podcasts are good reasoning?
Interesting video, thank you Paul
That's a really tough subject that was handled tastefully. May Allah bless you all.
The contrast and description of the Atlantic slave trade from. Minutes 1:07 going forward was vivid. Maybe BT should clip it for TH-cam shorts. Absolutely fascinating discussion and I highly recommend it.
Until he invites Avery from the *God Logic* podcasts?
Wow. What an insightful eye-opening podcast! Best one by Paul in recent times. In a dystopian mad-max future, slavery will come back. Never thot of that, but boy does that make sense!
Good discussion 🎉
Thanks!
Many thanks
This could not have been done any better. He did not glorify slavery. He presented it as a reality of life. He repeated several times the punch line: The Quran is obsessed with emancipation!
Great job Dr. Brown and our precious brother Paul!
amazing video
Describe the characteristics of the hospitality industry
Explain the relationship between the hospitality and tourism industries
Discuss career prospects and career paths, within the hospitality industry
Define what is meant by fringe benefits
Describe what is involved in shift work
Explain what is meant by service efficiency
Identify the classification of accommodation
Explain the hotel classification/rating system
Discuss the different types of accommodation
People love to say Islam promotes slavery no Islam put laws in place for slavery because without these laws these people would have just had a lot worse done to them slowly witth these laws they eventually got rid of slavery
Stop fooling your self .
@@Jay-b5b8yit’s like u did not watch the video 😭
The Prophet said, feed them what you eat and dress them with what you wear. Everyone is born free. Qur'an gives right for a person that has ended up in slavery to earn freedom.
@@優さん-n7m thank you I am a revert Islam and prophet Muhammad (PBUH) was a great man I have heard many things but people always take it out of context for the sake of their argument
@@Raphonrelationshipsthe haters haven’t eveb watched the video, and are already hating😂. I love it so much how much they hate us. May Allah SWT keep us steadfast to the deen al haqq. Amin
May Allah bless you brother
Thankyou
Fantastic!
If you would like to see slavery at its zenith look at the nineteenth century cotton industry, in Manchester England, it will make you cry.
so compare 100 years of british slavery to 1300 years of islamic slavery.................. good idea
@@AsifKhan-hf9zywhat islamic slavery 1300 years old . Form before of islamic law there was slavery and what 100 years you are taking about 😂😂 do you know anything about European slavery. And in islamic law no one can make a free man slave like happened in most of the part of world . And in islamic law you cannot beat him or you have set him free . And in islam there nothing salvery the malkul yamin means the captive of wars those who came to do wars and womens come with them can only take as malkul yamin. . 😅 You don't know nothing abt history and islam so better to study first 😅
Exactly. The Elite have been attacking human freedom a long time. Before the industrial revolution people lived and worked in family units often on their own homestead and lived a life of varied activity,growing food,keeping livestock,doing whatever industrial process.,mainly cloth weaving,was their principal source of income but they were not tied to the clock or a timetable. If they wanted to take day off and work extra hours next day they could.
@@AsifKhan-hf9zyh1nd00 troll
@@AsifKhan-hf9zyhahaha can you show us one exemple of muslim slavery exemple like Cotton industry in Manchester? Can you? 😂
Keep your propagande piece of sh*t !
Sura 90 The City
“1. No! I swear by this City!
2. And you, you are a resident in this City -
3. And by the father and what he begets!
4. Surely, We have created man for a life of struggle.
5. Does he think that no one will be able to do anything against him?
6. He says: “I have wasted many goods”.
7. Does he think that no one has seen him?
8. Have We not given him two eyes,
9. and one tongue and two lips?
10. Did We not guide him to the two ways?
11. But he does not take the difficult path!
12. And who shall tell thee what is the difficult way?
13. *It is to unloose a yoke [to free a slave],*
14. or to feed, in a day of famine,
15. an orphan close relative
16. or a poor man in the end.
17. And it is, moreover, to be of those who believe and enjoin endurance on each other, and enjoin mercy on each other.
18. These are the people of the Right;
19. while those who disbelieve in Our verses are the people of the left.
20. The Fire will close in on them.”
Love this Sura so much. I love that Allah has Muslims break the chains of historical slavery and trafficking and oppression. To free a slave is atonement for one’s sins, and all human beings are made equally in worth and spirit. Ameen . No caste systems in Islam. No superiority or inferiority complexes after reading Quran. 🌴🌴🌴🌴♥️
bismillah this man is incredible
AbdAllah, servitude is better understanding of the notion of slavery.
Service is undertaken willingly and by choice,slave work and status is enforced.
May Allah bless you
ويسالونك ماذا ينفقون قل العفو
they asks you what to give .all what you can
Thanks
Many thanks
As Algerian we differ tremendously from Middle East, I lived there and I realised that doing things as Islam says could end poverty and guarantee a good future for their children, having a family: a couple from a poor country you give them a home, they eat what you eat etc you pay for their children studies etc and of course with their agreement they work at home, cooking, driving etc that could save so many people actually and is way more human than slavery that still exists on the west, day after day we hear more and more horror: Africans etc who were abducted and had to work in some European countries 😊
It would be very useful to have another talk with Dr Brown regarding the topic of “what the right hand posses”(sex with the slaves, concubine etc). Thank you as always
Surah 33:50 - Saheeh International >> O Prophet, indeed We have made lawful to you your wives to whom you have given their due compensation1 and those your right hand possesses from what Allāh has returned to you [of captives] and the daughters of your paternal uncles and the daughters of your paternal aunts and the daughters of your maternal uncles and the daughters of your maternal aunts who emigrated with you and a believing woman if she gives herself to the Prophet [and] if the Prophet wishes to marry her; [this is] only for you, excluding the [other] believers. We certainly know what We have made obligatory upon them concerning their wives and those their right hands possess, [but this is for you] in order that there will be upon you no discomfort [i.e., difficulty]. And ever is Allāh Forgiving and Merciful.> O Prophet, indeed We have made lawful to you your wives to whom you have given their due compensation1 and those your right hand possesses from what Allāh has returned to you [of captives] …
Why have you not invited Dr Khalid Abu Fadl to your channel Paul? He is a leading human rights defender in the Muslim world and needs a wider audience
Jonathan Brown is an excellent islamic scholar. Very knowledgeable. I would also recommend people who can understand Urdu/Hindi to watch Pakistani Islamic Scholar Javed Ahmed Ghamidi videos on topic of slavery on TH-cam. He is, in my opinion, the best islamic scholar in the last 500 years.
No, Javed is a revisionist and an innovator.
I recommend that you learn Arabic so that you can gain access to the corpus of Islamic knowledge, most of which remains untranslated. Then you won't be taken for a ride by people like Javed.
@@عبدالرحمنعبدالله-ز4م There is not a single new thing javed ahmad ghamidi came up with. It's already said by the ulemas before. He just present it better because he got a strong command over the language. All his views regarding hijab, return of jesus, riba etc. nothing new in it. Already said by the ulemas before. But since we muslims love jump to conclusions without studying various views.
@@zeeshanhaider1709 He's a Kaffir who rejects the Qiraat. No actual authoritative scholar takes him seriously. Take a look at what Mufti Taqi has said about him or is he somebody who hasn't looked at "different viewpoints"
Also you prob can't even read Arabic so how do you know the works of the past 500 years of scholarship.
You and ur ghamidi cult is hilarious.
Abu Dhar said, "I was with the Prophet (SAW) one day and I heard him saying: "There is something I fear for my Ummah than the Dajjal." It was then that I became afraid, so I said: "Oh Rasool Allah! Which thing is that?" He (SAW) said; "Misguided and astray scholars."
May Allah protect us
What do u mean by this Hadith ? what's the problem of this video ??
Men are deceived to make people sin by
Throat off bad people to shed blood
Marry many women here in the name of helping them and get many in heaven
Go far place to Rotate around black stone
Take jaziya from mankind of other race saying third class
Finally Make AI to say this is what God says
Tge kind that say that the Earth doesn't move and other nonsense
Write out the abbreviation when sending salwat.
Slavery is specifically in reference to pow/refugee status. Our job is to integrate them into society.
Funny how muslims in the past never did so
Slavery still exist in every country just in a different name.
that is the excuse moslems give for their religion............ none of them BAN slavery themselves.........
but make these grotesque smart ass statements instead as posted above..........
I've listen to Dr Brown's lectures before and he is excellent, gives great examples too. Slave in what way? We are all slaves in some ways aren't we?
Please Doctor Brown I would like to read your book in any book format,for free by downloading it of course,how can I get the full book?
Limited liability was considered a sin and caused a moral outrage in the church upon inception in Europe 400 years ago (Piketty, 2014). Limited liability is forbidden in Islam. Trans Atlantic slavery was enabled by an immoral means of raising capital.
As to the Arab-Muslim slave trade, Ghanaian professor John Azumah helped set the record straight in “The Legacy of Arab-Islam in Africa.” In an interview about his book, Azumah said the following:
Over 28 Million Africans have been sold as slaves in the Muslim world during the past 14 centuries While much has been written concerning the Transatlantic slave trade, surprisingly little attention has been given to the Islamic slave trade across the Sahara, the Red Sea and the Indian Ocean.
While the European involvement in the Transatlantic slave trade to the Americas lasted for just over three centuries, the Arab involvement in the slave trade has lasted fourteen centuries, and in some parts of the Muslim world is still continuing to this day. A comparison of the Muslim slave trade to the American slave trade reveals some interesting contrasts.
While two out of every three slaves shipped across the Atlantic were men, the proportions were reversed in the Muslim slave trade. Two women for every man were enslaved by the Muslims.
While the mortality rate for slaves being transported across the Atlantic was as high as 10%, the percentage of slaves dying in transit in the Transsahara and East African slave trade was between 80 and 90%! That meant that between 140 and 280 million Africans were murdered by the islamic slave trade over these 1400 years.
While almost all the slaves shipped across the Atlantic were for agricultural work, most of the slaves destined for the Muslim Middle East were for sexual exploitation as concubines, in harems, and for military service.
apya.org/arab-slave-trade/
Islam took slavery and turned it into a type of work situation. Where u had the option to negotiate ur way out. And it put strict rules in place to protect the slaves. And encouraged freeing of slaves by making it a highly rewarding act.
Those who are stuck inside their head and cant see beyond their own world and own time, life and preferences, need to understand this first. You cant judge other ppl or culture if u are not part of it. Thats fundamental concept of Anthropology. Saying Slavery could have been easily abolished right away shows they really live in their dream world and have no understanding of the complexity of how the world functioned or even functions today outside of their buble.
Sadly if Muslims were sincere, it would have been abolished a while back. But they weren't. How many ppl in ur personal life do u know who gives up things that benefits them for greater good or even for God ? Not many really.
Just how women got back stabbed later by the society and was cheated out of their rights, so did the poor and anyone vulnerable.
But thats how life is. For Muslims there is a next world though and Allah is the most just and merciful.
Yeah banging female slaves allowed by allah 😣
FORNICATION - no buying no selling no manufacturing no consuming
ALCOHOL - no buying no selling no manufacturing no consuming
USURY - no buying no selling no manufacturing no consuming
SLAVES - yes buying yes selling yes manufacturing yes consuming
But you never got your balls back
It’s amazing how Paul brings on people who have no Arabic background speaking about the religion and defend the Prophet being insulted. Yet Muslims who have actually studied in reputable institutions in the Islamic world are seldom seen. What a weird state of affairs.
Aa? How do you know he doesnt speak Arabic? He speaks Arabic with his children..
Please becareful of statements of ignorance.
@@wanfatinsuryaniewa7007 he does not. He couldn’t translate when sitting down next to Abdullah Bin Bayyah. So called experts who deliberately marginalise inter generational Muslims and take the limelight based on you know what.
people who "speak Arabic" rarely talk about slavery............ they just talk about the quran......... and pretend all the nasty evil things moslems do, dont exist.......... they try to hide behind their "arabic knowlege"........... "oh i am just a scholar of arabic. i dont know anythinig about whats going on in the world. dont ask me".......... and their cadre of monkey followers who admire them for their ignorance.........
@@wanfatinsuryaniewa7007 Paul deleted my comment so I’ll write it again. When speaking and translating in front of Abdullah Bin Bayyah he could not correctly translate the sentences he was told to translate.
This man said he supported the Prophet Muhammad being insulted. Just because you are European does not make you understand Islam more than us. The European convert should humble himself and learn like everybody else and not be wined and dined and paraded like a trophy. This page gives of Eurocentric vibes.
@@user-li9yq2ws7sus? Rant all you want, he's a Muslim, he's one of us.
Brilliant thinker. I listened to a lecture of his a few years ago, real eye opener.
When he said "I can go for another hour" we all said "yes please do!"
What a great discussion. For the longest time I couldn’t reconcile the idea that slavery still existed in Muslim societies even after the righteous caliphs. I would really like to know more about the concubine slavery.
As to the Arab-Muslim slave trade, Ghanaian professor John Azumah helped set the record straight in “The Legacy of Arab-Islam in Africa.” In an interview about his book, Azumah said the following:
Over 28 Million Africans have been sold as slaves in the Muslim world during the past 14 centuries While much has been written concerning the Transatlantic slave trade, surprisingly little attention has been given to the Islamic slave trade across the Sahara, the Red Sea and the Indian Ocean.
While the European involvement in the Transatlantic slave trade to the Americas lasted for just over three centuries, the Arab involvement in the slave trade has lasted fourteen centuries, and in some parts of the Muslim world is still continuing to this day. A comparison of the Muslim slave trade to the American slave trade reveals some interesting contrasts.
While two out of every three slaves shipped across the Atlantic were men, the proportions were reversed in the Muslim slave trade. Two women for every man were enslaved by the Muslims.
While the mortality rate for slaves being transported across the Atlantic was as high as 10%, the percentage of slaves dying in transit in the Transsahara and East African slave trade was between 80 and 90%! That meant that between 140 and 280 million Africans were murdered by the islamic slave trade over these 1400 years.
While almost all the slaves shipped across the Atlantic were for agricultural work, most of the slaves destined for the Muslim Middle East were for sexual exploitation as concubines, in harems, and for military service.
apya.org/arab-slave-trade/
And concubine slavery is the permission by Mohammed's "the god" (that is all that allah means) to rape women captured in battle (surah 33:50)
Surah 33:50 - Saheeh International >> O Prophet, indeed We have made lawful to you your wives to whom you have given their due compensation1 and those your right hand possesses from what Allāh has returned to you [of captives] and the daughters of your paternal uncles and the daughters of your paternal aunts and the daughters of your maternal uncles and the daughters of your maternal aunts who emigrated with you and a believing woman if she gives herself to the Prophet [and] if the Prophet wishes to marry her; [this is] only for you, excluding the [other] believers. We certainly know what We have made obligatory upon them concerning their wives and those their right hands possess, [but this is for you] in order that there will be upon you no discomfort [i.e., difficulty]. And ever is Allāh Forgiving and Merciful.> O Prophet, indeed We have made lawful to you your wives to whom you have given their due compensation1 and those your right hand possesses from what Allāh has returned to you [of captives] …
I don’t like some of the things he says or does but he handles this topic nicely. Thank you Paul
Great podcast.the only issue is dr jonathan loves to talk so much that he never lets brother paul finish his sentence.
Looking forward to the next podcast on concubines.
concubines ae hot............
and unlike your wife they cannot say "no" and throw a hissy fit and take off to spend the nite at their parents.........
Salam u alykum Jonathan Brown.
Hi paul we met at hyde park once! Please call Jonathan Brown again and do a podcast on age of Ayesha ra and History of child marriages and moral conundrum around it!
amazing video thank you so much for the clarification about this topic ❤️. Alhamdulialh for islam truly the best thing to happen to humanity
It is not just that the industrial revolution gave room for thought of morality of slavery, rather keeping slaves, feeding and housing and nursing good workers back to fitness when they fell ill etc, slaves became an extra expense they did not want. It was economical - the moral reasoning was the excuse.
Brother Paul how can a person who think freedom of speech is to insult the prophet of 1.5 billion people and torture them can give us the true picture behind the slavery banned in Islam step by step
slavery is not banned in islam................... slavery is 100% halal...........
however, usury is banned, alcohol is banned, gambling is banned............ slavery, no problem
@@AsifKhan-hf9zy
If you think it’s halal in Islam,why not go on the *God Logic* podcasts and debates about how it’s halal??!
I was thinking about this specific subject yesterday because it bothered me that I didn't know enough about it and today this drops!
All I can say is Alhamdulillah and also a priceless channel you have here brother Paul. May Allah be pleased with your efforts.
Ameen
Very known Hadith, Abu Hurayra said, “The Prophet (may the peace and salutations be upon him) said,
“A child cannot repay his father unless he finds him as a slave and then buys him and sets him free.”
Sahih Muslim
You should get Butch Ware on the podcast.
not always the most informative/intelligent guests, but brother paul never fails to bring his own charm, wit, and sophistication to these engagements.
What an odd comment. Whose lack of intelligence offended you? 🤔
@@Asma_Mushtaq not to mention, brother paul is not exactly the brightest bulb in the chandelier, lol............
Yes,That's true. African Kings engaged in non stop war activity and thus always had a prolific lot of captured prisoners of war to sell on and of course the entry of white buyers into the market added keenness to the bargainingprice.
@@janebaker966 jewish buyers, you mean? they were the majority.
The cocktail vs pub rant was pretty good…
🤣
The only one who explained this issue correctly is none other than
Dr Mohamed Shahroor
RIP
Assalamualaikum. We heard quite a lot of historical accounts on Jesus and Christians and answers a lot of questions and early confusions on Jesus and Christians in your blog. Do you have a plan to dig deeper into the history such 1. The Seven Sleepers to know when and where are this event takes place, were they christians?. 2. Hisotry of Christians in the Arabian Peninsular such as Waraqah bin Naufal, Bahira/Sergius?/Jirjis?, Prophet Companion Salman Al-Farisi. How far they deviate from Western Christians, do they follow the actual Injil? These two events are very interesting.
Would that you knew what the Ascent is. It is the freeing of a slave, or the feeding in a day of hunger an orphaned near of kin. or a needy man in misery. Moreover it is to be of those who believe and counsel one another to be steadfast and enjoin mercy on one another. Those who do this shall be on the right hand."
excellent discourse however there is only one error, the liberation of Umm Walad was legislated only during the reign of Umar Ibn Al-Khattab. It was never forbidden to sell Umm Walad during the lifetime of Prophet Muhammad ﷺ.
There are authentic Ahadith on the authority of Jabir Ibn Abdullah to support and corroborate this.
Barakallahu Feekum
Nice, but if uthman and Ali continued what Omar did then we could consider this the sunnah of the rashidun caliphate
@@JusticeIsBetterThanPeace precisely, it can be considered a continuation curve in the evolving legislation pertaining to slavery reforms. Umar abolished slavery among the Arabs during his reign, none of his reforms were challenged or nullified by his successors and they are upheld by Sunni schools of law to this very day as inviolable (the example cited by Dr Brown being a prime case, with the prohibition of selling a child bearing slave)
MashAllah, thank you for the clarification. I watch your content and because I do, I was able to remember this when he made the claim that few ever forbade slavery outright before 1700. Jzk for all you do in educating us.
@@omowhanre Barakallahu Feekum
Historyun is an afro supremacy revisionist.
This guy thinks it’s ok to insult the prophet saws..
So tell me, which Arabic version of the quran do you use and why that one? Or do you not even know that there are some 40 different versions of the Arabic quran we know of? Of course all these qurans were written by unknown authors. And how do you deal with all the mistakes, discrepancies, inconsistencies and contradictions in that quran as well as the approval of evil such as raping women who have been captures in battle (surah 33:50) which is adultery and wife beating (surah 4:34) as well as child marriage (surah 65:4) which means that Mohammed and his allah approved of raping little prepubescent girls. And we see that Mohammed led by example when he married a 6 year old child and then raped that child when it was just 9 years old. Clearly Mohammed disqualified himself as a prophet of GOD by the evil he perpetrated. And remember all of islam is only based what Mohammed maybe recited and how he lived.
So tell me, why do you even believe that you will be with GOD our Father in heaven on judgement day when you follow Mohammed? And do show the quran verses on which you base your belief.
@@johnzuma4688so basically the 40 Quran argument is a myth that was presented by Jay Smith
there's was only one Quran with 10 qirats and no nearly all scholars believe that Muhammad peace be upon him is the author of the Quran (we believe it's god but whatever) so he's not some anonymous author your mixing the bible with the Quran
Plus Here are some recent scholarly perspectives on the authorship of the Quran:
1. David Thomas (historian): "The Quran is traditionally understood as the direct revelation to Muhammad, yet the historical process of its compilation involves a community of believers who played key roles."
2. Michael Cook (Islamic historian): "The question of authorship is complex; while Muhammad is central, the contributions of his followers in preserving and transmitting the text are significant."
And
yeah there's no contradiction or mistakes in the Quran your mixing the bible with the Quran again
And you said that surah 33:50 is about raping woman in war first of all I would like you to show me where is the word rape found in the verse your lying
because the Truth is that your bible allows the rape of women
Deuteronomy 22:28-29
New International Version
the poor woman can't even get a divorce
and surah 4:34 may give the impression that you can beat your wife but the prophet clarified in a Hadith that you can't cause an injury or leave a mark when "beating" only the disobedience wifes
while the bible says in Deuteronomy 25:11-12 (ESV) that you can cut the hand of your wife if she protected you
Plus you mentioned surah 65:4
And you said that Allah approved of raping child concubines and child marriage
first of all where in the verse does it say that you can mary or rape anyone and where in the verse can we find the word "child" or "kid"so you are lying about my religion and my book and the funny thing is that your bible made it permissible for the prophets in the old testament to rape and sell little girls
Exodus 21:7-11
Deuteronomy 21:10-14
Numbers 31:7-18
Judges 21:10-12
and you said that Mohammed (pbuh) raped our mother Aisha when she was 9 that's absolutely false Aisha was mentally and physically mature
Sahih Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 8, Hadith 465 confirmes that it was mature before the prophet consummated the marriage with her
and in the other hand we see the prophets of the old testament killing children by the order of there god in Samuel 15 3 which is way worse than any child marriage
nice
Brown is super genius.
Misquoting muhammad is good book...little tough english.
Not much has yet been said about what happens to the "enslaver". He is certainly changed in the long run by the seemingly inevitable enslavement of others.
People in America eat out of trash cans but in Islamic slavery a slave is to be fed the same food as his master.
ancient chinese proverb: "better to eat trash and be free, then to be raped by master and then fed good food"
So would you prefer to be a slave or a free person?
@@johnzuma4688depends i guess. Looking at the living condition where "free men" are in constant starving state. And dont get medical attention, i might want to be a slave from a slaver who cares about my well being.
Surah 33:50 - Saheeh International >> O Prophet, indeed We have made lawful to you your wives to whom you have given their due compensation1 and those your right hand possesses from what Allāh has returned to you [of captives] and the daughters of your paternal uncles and the daughters of your paternal aunts and the daughters of your maternal uncles and the daughters of your maternal aunts who emigrated with you and a believing woman if she gives herself to the Prophet [and] if the Prophet wishes to marry her; [this is] only for you, excluding the [other] believers. We certainly know what We have made obligatory upon them concerning their wives and those their right hands possess, [but this is for you] in order that there will be upon you no discomfort [i.e., difficulty]. And ever is Allāh Forgiving and Merciful.> O Prophet, indeed We have made lawful to you your wives to whom you have given their due compensation1 and those your right hand possesses from what Allāh has returned to you [of captives] …
Ahhhhh yes, Johnathan brown - the man who believes people should have the right to curse and insult the prophet saws.
Since War is human condition, the losers will have their rights confiscated sometimes rightfully sometimes wrongfully. They will be imprisoned and a prisoner has his rights restricted it's a kind of slavery. So slavery is not going to be entirely removed or eliminated. You can't have aggressors who attacked your nation first go scot-free without repucusions.
this is not the problem with moslem slavery.............. the problem with moslem slavery is that IT ENCOURAGES SLAVE TRADE........ moslems buy slaves.......... so non-moslems enslave people and sell them to moslems............ its like crops.......... if moslems pay cash for crops, then someone will be encouraged to harvest crops.......... replace crops with slaves............ same situation..........
In addition to stopping the origins of slavery, Islam actively encouraged the freeing of slaves, allowing their gradual release to reduce social disruption. According to Alla's regulations, it required the release of a believing slave as a form of punishment in manslaughter situations. (( Quran 4 : 92 And never is it for a believer to kill a believer except by mistake. And whoever kills a believer by mistake - then the freeing of a believing slave and a compensation payment presented to the deceased's family [is required] unless they give [up their right as] charity. But if the deceased was from a people at war with you and he was a believer - then [only] the freeing of a believing slave; and if he was from a people with whom you have a treaty - then a compensation payment presented to his family and the freeing of a believing slave. And whoever does not find [one or cannot afford to buy one] - then [instead], a fast for two months consecutively, [seeking] acceptance of repentance from Allah. And Allah is ever Knowing and Wise. ))
One of the forgiveness of sins recommended by the Koran is to free slavery, that means Islam encourages the elimination of slavery but in a gradual process
There’s Hadith saying it’s better to gift a slave than to free one.
Also that proves that enslaving someone is a bad thing to do to someone otherwise there wouldn’t be a reward for freeing them
So if slavery is mentioned in the Koran that means it existed. Mo had sex slaves.
Since War is human condition, the losers will have their rights confiscated sometimes rightfully sometimes wrongfully. They will be imprisoned and a prisoner has his rights restricted it's a kind of slavery. So slavery is not going to be entirely removed or eliminated. You can't have aggressors who attacked your nation first go scot-free without repucusions.
why does islam ....... "encourages the elimination".......... of usury the same way? or alcohol consumption? or adultery? gambling?
why just slavery?
Slavery is owning someone. Owning someone is wrong, objectively.
how about owning an animal ?
@heytemboumaza6369 Objectively, that's not the same.
@@SQUATCH100 humans are animals right ? why is it ok to own an animal and not a human being ?
@heytemboumaza6369 Humans have protected rights and sovereignty that animals don't. Animals dont have the same rights. In the USA, this is protected in our constitution and bill of rights. If you want to argue that slavery is acceptable in modern times or that it was excusable in the past by today's standards, I won't accept your pressupositions that humans don't have inalienable rights. This is a moral and ethical and legal argument. It happened in the past and still happens, and by today's standards, it's not exuseable.
@@SQUATCH100 what slavery are we talking about ? slavery wasn't practiced the same way throughout history, western racial based slavery is the most disgusting vile and inhumane form of slavery that ever existed, and guess what, the west is still practicing slavery to this day. don't give me that bullshit about your constitution.
Respected, In Quran, there are very limited Absolute Orders and in many cases many options suggested. Not Fix Orders. Like marriage, 4 wives allowed subject to restrictions, when people have unlimited wives, or today undeclared extra marital relationship. Similarly Slavery was a part of Economics/ Employment. It's not forced to have Slaves. In today's life it's Employees. However Physical Slavery has been abolished but Mental Slavery has been increased. If we study Footballers contracts with their clubs is someway Slavery and in many other fields too.
Sura 51: AD-DARIYAT (WHO SPLASH)
56. *I have not created the jinns and men except that they may worship Me.*
Sura 31: LUQMAN (LUQMAN)
26. *To Allah belongs all that is in the heavens and on earth. Allah is He Who is self-sufficient, He is Worthy of praise!*
These two verses reveal two important facts:
-Everything that exists belongs to God
-Human beings are God's servants.
Taking these two parameters into account, a human being who enslaved another human being would be a thief, and worse, a disbeliever, for he would have stolen God's property. This is corroborated by these three hadiths which formally forbid slavery:
BUKHARI Volume 3, Book 34, Number 430:
Narrated by Abu Huraira:
The Prophet said, “Allah said, 'I will be against 3 people on the Day of Resurrection:
1-One who makes a pact in My Name, but betrays it.
*2-One who sells a free person (as a slave) and enriches himself with the price.*
3-And one who employs a laborer, makes him do all the work but doesn't pay him.”
BUKHARI Volume 3, Book 36, Number 470:
Narrated by Abu Huraira:
The Prophet said, “Allah said, 'I will be the adversary of 3 types of people on the Day of Resurrection:
1-One who makes a pact in My Name, but betrays it.
*2-One who sells a free person (as a slave) and enriches himself with the price.*
3-And one who employs a laborer, makes him do all the work but does not pay him.”
ABU DAWUD Book 2, Number 593 :
Narrated by Abdullah Ibn Umar:
The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) said, “There are three types of people whose prayer will not be accepted by Allah: a person who goes to people who don't like him, a person who comes dibaran, meaning he comes to it (the prayer) too late, and *a person who enslaves a free man or woman."*
His name is Thomas Thistlewood not George Thistledown. Close though.
1:18:48 According to Islamic tradition mother of the Ishmaelite Arabs is an Egyptian slave woman (Hagar) And the mother of Ibrahim (Maria, the Copt) was a slave woman and he is the son of the prophet muhammed peace and blessings upon him
Slavery is based
I recently did a sort of deep dive on this topic, and what I found out that slavery is categorically forbidden in the Quran, and what is often said about slavery in Islam, they are just prisoners of war, and those prisoners are very particularly distinct than normal prisoners of war because almost always these prisoners are due capital punishment because of their crimes against Muslims. As for the woman prisoners, firstly because they were with the enemy combatants they should be taken just as culpable as fighting against Muslims hence same treatment as any combatant or indorsee.
Hence, after victory of any war whoever left alive are due capital punishment, so in that case Islam gave four actionable options, 1. Deliver the capital punishment, 2. Take ransom, 3. Make them servants and 4. Forgive them. That's why to say Islam has slavery is to say US justice system which believes capital punishment is cruel so we just imprisoned criminals for life is also form of slavery because Islam also reduce the punishment from capital punishment to be a servant and not even indefinitely. And it's the choice of the other party whether to choose being a servant or receive their capital punishment. So, it's not even a forced to be a servant let alone actual slavery.
You have been lied to my friend.
Surah 33:50 - Saheeh International >> O Prophet, indeed We have made lawful to you your wives to whom you have given their due compensation1 and those your right hand possesses from what Allāh has returned to you [of captives] and the daughters of your paternal uncles and the daughters of your paternal aunts and the daughters of your maternal uncles and the daughters of your maternal aunts who emigrated with you and a believing woman if she gives herself to the Prophet [and] if the Prophet wishes to marry her; [this is] only for you, excluding the [other] believers. We certainly know what We have made obligatory upon them concerning their wives and those their right hands possess, [but this is for you] in order that there will be upon you no discomfort [i.e., difficulty]. And ever is Allāh Forgiving and Merciful.> O Prophet, indeed We have made lawful to you your wives to whom you have given their due compensation1 and those your right hand possesses from what Allāh has returned to you [of captives] …
@@johnzuma4688 if you really think you know more than me, then I can provide you my research which is the result of my said deep dive and it will answer every evil thing you see in so called islamic slavery and why they don't exist in Islam.
@@johnzuma4688 If you really think you know more than me, then I can provide you my research which will refute every allegation on this topic.
@@skrm5311 You say >> If you really think you know more than me, then I can provide you my research which will refute every allegation on this topic. > O Prophet, indeed We have made lawful to you your wives to whom you have given their due compensation1 and those your right hand possesses from what Allāh has returned to you [of captives] and the daughters of your paternal uncles and the daughters of your paternal aunts and the daughters of your maternal uncles and the daughters of your maternal aunts who emigrated with you and a believing woman if she gives herself to the Prophet [and] if the Prophet wishes to marry her; [this is] only for you, excluding the [other] believers. We certainly know what We have made obligatory upon them concerning their wives and those their right hands possess, [but this is for you] in order that there will be upon you no discomfort [i.e., difficulty]. And ever is Allāh Forgiving and Merciful.> O Prophet, indeed We have made lawful to you your wives to whom you have given their due compensation1 and those your right hand possesses from what Allāh has returned to you [of captives] …
@@johnzuma4688 *first tell us the name of your father?*
*Internet is hitting hard on immoral persons these days.*
I read from the King James version. In 1 Peter 2:18, the scripture is a metaphor, a symbol. It's referring to suffering for Jesus like when Jesus told Ananias about sending Saul to him that he's going to show Paul how much he will suffer for his name because people will attack him like Saul did when he felt like the teaching of Jesus was contrary to his teaching in the Old covenant of Judaism. Read the entire chapter for understanding.
You don't go to the Bible for wisdom or moral support. You read the Bible to learn about God and Spiritual guidance. The Bible itself, is about God's relationship to society through the Israelites after the flood until the birth of Jesus.
The New Testament of the Bible is a continuation of the Old Testament but under a New Covenant which is the Crucifixion of Jesus Christ and his commandments.
We don't follow the old law because it includes killing certain animals for our sins. There would be no animals on earth today to make an atonement with God for your sins if Jesus didn't die for all man's sins.
Islam is a one man religion. There's no relationship between God and Muhammad in the Quran. It's just a book of instructions. How can his word be validated to be true, if only he said that the angel Gabriel told him the teachings for 3 days in a cave.
In the Hadith, it says, while Muhammad was a grown man and had other wives, that he married Aisha at the age 6 but didn't lay with her until she was 9.
The Book of Mormon is also a one man religion. Joseph Smith said that Moroni, Mormon's son came to life or from the heavens and approached him to tell him where golf plates with teachings on it was located in a cave. Then after a few days returned to him and took the gold plates to heaven. Flesh and blood don't enter the kingdom of God and neither does material things.
Buddha is not a religion. It's a philosophy by one man from India. Hindu, again a teaching that started with one person and if you feel comfortable following a religion that uses animals as a symbol of their god and believe that when you die you can return as another human being or an animal, depending on how you were on earth, then do you, but when you die, your spirit is not going to enter someone's else's body after the baby grows in them.
Brother Paul, Assalam o alaikum, I have seen that you don't say "peace be upon him".
Salaam Alaykum,
Mr. Jonathan has been dividing the Muslims, who have already been divided.
He deviates some of the Islamic teachings. For instance, the law of homosexuality.
Also, he couldn't substantiate with regard to Islam and slavery. He merely repeats to the old tactics of colonial countries to share the blame.
I wonder if he could debate the topic with a knowledgeable person rather than engaging with a TH-camr.