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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 ต.ค. 2024
- In this video we explain some of the major differences between regular and high speed motors on ebikes. There's many things to consider when choosing between 20mph and 28mph electric bikes and we want to help you make the best decision.
If you want to check out some of the bikes shown in this video, feel free to check out the link below:
propelbikes.co...
Thanks so much for watching!!
TIMECODES:
1:30 What are you using the bike for?
1:50 Are you commuting?
2:55 Motor torque/speed differences
5:35 Locations restrictions
8:20 Access to different models of bikes/special bikes
10:00 Different additional requirements
10:30 Safety
11:15 Batter power/range
MusicBed: MB01U9M1C1HALPS
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Amazing video, such an important subject in a rapidly changing landscape. I love your analogy of the Ferrari in the school zone because I sold my SS Camaro and bought my Class 3 e bike to commute to work. Now we have 3 e bikes in the house and both our cars are being used so infrequently that the disc brakes are visibly rusting. All classes of e bikes should be able to ride on almost all bike paths, just be reasonable with your speeds. This is the message from one of our local cops to me when talking at the last bike show here in Montreal. Keep people moving away from cars to e bikes! Thanks Propel for helping the community out so effectively! Bravo!
I sold my car too and ride the tinker around. I want to get a cargo bike for hauling more stuff.
Thanks Eric! I always appreciate your thoughtful comments.
I live at the bottom of a hill so my brakes can finish warm and the moisture evaporates.
@@zawaprz I live in Quebec Canada. I also rode my EBike in winter ice and snow, what a trip!
What's the names of the ebikes that gets up to 28mph without having the fat tires that way I sure can put the ebike on front of the bus ?
Chris, Thank-you for your time & effort in making a great video....here's my story. I'm at Craig Park (Fullerton) on my R&M Nevo, stopped, under a shade tree, talking on my cell phone to my Mom (she is 87) when a park Ranger (with Police Power) rolls up & wants to "talk" about my breaking the law with my electric bike by being in the park. I was a regular volunteer at the Fullerton Electric Bicycle Center, I'm 62 & retired Law Enforcement (37 years). After a fair amount respectful listening I borrowed the Park Ranger's California Vehicle Code Book pointed to chapter & verse as to why I was not breaking any laws. He eventually agreed, & I invited him down to our E-BIKE shop, to see first hand the different manufactured E-Bikes and how the Class #1 differs from Class #2 & so on. It was a blast helping out the Park Ranger & now his view on E-Bike riders has completely changed.
I am a 75 year old bike rider who bought an ebike a few weeks ago. I live in an active adult community south of Atlanta, in a neighborhood that is very hilly. I ride for cardio exercise and found that 7.5 miles on my analog bike was about all my legs could handle. Now I ride twice that distance and my legs don't fell like mush.
Unlike a lot of my neighbors with bikes (and ebikes), I peddle both direction on hills. I find that I'm often going 30 mph as I get to the bottom of most long hills. Thus, my class 3 ebike is very much appreciated. I've been playing a lot with assist levels to make the battery last longer, while still getting a good workout. I just found your channel this morning and have enjoyed the videos I've watched. Who says you can't teach an old dog new tricks?
Nice discussion. I prefer to have the higher speed available even though most of my riding is 17-21 mph. The higher speed is valuable for traffic-matching or if I really have a long trip or need to run a fast errand.
I share the same perspective here.
I have a bike that can do 28 mph but truth is, I never go that fast. On a bike, 28 mph is scary. I like that the bike is equipped with better tires, hydraulic disk brakes, and other equipment to be safe at that speed.
agreed, it can be pretty scary, the key is to have a safe helmet like xnito or bern, instead of a normal bike helmet
Man - spot on! You're delivering terrific content and really helping out the folks that are thinking about getting an ebike! I rode both before buying and I knew immediately that a 28mph bike was the only way for me to go. Not because I always go more than 20mph - but when I want to it's VERY nice to have and I absolutely would've regretted it if I went with a Class 1 bike.
Thanks so much!! I really appreciate the kind words. Thats a very good point. It's definitely a great thing to have when you want that extra speed.
If you have 28 mph you can still go 20
Yep. I am a fit cyclist and I can do about 24 miles an hour hauling ass on my dedicated road bike. On flat ground. It would be really nice to go 28 on a commuter bike with less effort, and yes you can still go 18 or 20 with ease. Not sure what the question really is...
I limited my pedal assist to 28 (mainly because in town it was catching up with cars as the power isn't well controlled and i had to continuously stop pedalling, yet i want to use level 5 for more take off power). My throttle is unlimited. On different assist levels it gives different fractions of the limit. On level 4 it is about 25 mph, on 3 about 21, 2 is 17-18 and 1 about 12-13 mph. Technically the motor system still spins and keeps up with the pedals but is not providing significant forward thrust. Level 3 is useful for long trips as wind resistance provides diminishing returns on range at speeds above the mid 20s. Also it prevents the battery being wasted applying the motor downhill if i am just lightly pedalling to recover from a climb. Getting into the 30s is very power hungry (and is only used to keep pace on the faster narrow town roads) although the 17.5 amp hour battery still goes a reasonable distance even with nearly 1000 watts being drawn. It is however better to reserve the battery for zooming up the hills as this increases average journey speed more effectively.
Shared use i usually turn off the motor as i could exceed a safe speed on pedal alone. Maybe if i am feeling lazy it is useful on a steep section of path.
28 > 20!
Let's take two hypothetical mid-drive 500w bikes, one a class 1 (20mph limit), the other a class 3 (28mph limit) with identical speedometers, batteries, gearing, brakes, frames, etc...
The only reason to even consider the class 1 bike is if the price is less.
The class 3 bike will do everything the class 1 bikes does and more for helping you get from point A to point B.
The restrictions against operating class 3 bikes in places that favor class 1 bikes are questionable!
If anything, there should be more restrictions against operating class 1 bikes than against class 3 bikes!
My opinion is there should be no additional restrictions against operating a class 3 bike than there are against operating a class 1 bike. Simply operate the class 3 bike at a lower speed in places that limit the speed to between 21 and 28 mph.
Like cars ... they can go 200mph but in the city they drive 20mph like we all.
@@pt020 Yes!
Thank you for helping me choose a 20 mph for the extra torque and more access to bike trails.
Yo bro when you have a electric bike do you still peddle
@@darkshadowreviews3921 yes.
@@darkshadowreviews3921 if it is pedal assisted, you have to.
1:53 *Noticed part of this was filmed in Zurich Switzerland. On the back of the bike is a license plate, the 28mph (45kph) bikes are required to be registered as a motorised vehicle here and are banned from many trails. The slower bikes on the other hand are treated like normal bicycles and can go anywhere a regular bike is allowed.*
That’s right. It was filmed with my friend Simon. See his full video below:
th-cam.com/video/-sijnDtrhHg/w-d-xo.html
@@difflocktwo in Switzerland I guarantee EVERYone will bother you because it is strictly forbidden to drive what is classified as a low powered motorcycle off road.
The license plate is a must in all EU countries. The 45km/h bike is basically a moped by law.
I’m Swiss, live in Eastern Switzerland, i have a 45 km ebike and i have a numberplate. I ride on bike paths, i don’t like the idea of riding on a road with traffic. The roads are not really built for cars and bikes.
Who wants a bike doing 45 km/h on a path shared by bikes and pedestrians mmmm
I live in suburban Denver, Colorado, where we have a lot of urban bike trails, which lead to more mountainous and challenging terrain. I’m glad that at least in Colorado, Class 2 bikes can go on all paved trails, but only class 1 ebikes can go on many unpaved trails. Class 3 bikes are excluded from many places. I’ve had my current ebike, and Aventon Aventure, for a little over 2 months. After briefly experimenting with setting it as a class 3, I reverted to the default class 2 setting. If I feel the need to do an unpaved trail, I’ll remove the throttle, an easy task, and I’ll have a class 1. I’m in the process of upgrading my ebike, and have put a deposit on a Riese & Müller Homage vario. I’d been debating which route to go - 20mph vs 28mph, and your video confirmed I made the right choice, for me, to go with an ebike with 20mph max. At one of the well-known bike stores in the area, the sales person said I should go with the 28mph version, because no one checks, and they’d sell me a class 1 sticker and motor cover that would say it was a 20mph max bike. I have the same concerns about you as responsibility, and have a concern because of those flouting the law, who WILL go too fast where it’s not safe, will eventually cause us to have even more restrictions where these bikes can go. I don’t want motorcycles in these beautiful natural areas, and I’ve seen inconsiderate bikers who think it’s their right to tear up these places with their bikes. We already have places in the foothills where motorbikes can be ridden… no hikers go there for obvious reasons, since the land is torn up with cross-crossing paths by bikers racing each other. These are the places the class 3 biker can go, here in Colorado. I like to keep the difference between motorbikes and ebikes as far apart as possible to make it possible for ebikes with mobility issues to be able to go anywhere a normal acoustic bike could go. I decided not to buy the sticker, and will be enjoying my class 1 ebike on all the trails my mountain biking friends can ride on.
Chris. Thanks for making this video, this is an excellent topic. As you may remember, I struggled with this decision when ordering an e-bike and actually ended up changing my order based on a change in my thought process.
I purchased an e-bike with the primary motivation of using it for long distance touring. So initially I ordered a 28 mph e-bike, thinking that on the open road it would be great to be cruising at 25mph.
That being said, I also knew that I would be using the e-bike a lot on city paved and single track bikr trails that have a 20 mph limit. Now we all know that there is next to zero enforcement of speed limits on bike routes. The real risk is what happens when you have an accident and you have law enforcement and insurance issues to deal with? It really comes down to do you want to be legal or are you okay with the risk of being illegal?
Ultimately I decided that I wanted to have a bike that was legal on city trails and most urban mountain bike trails and that sacrificing about 5 mph on long distant bike trips was not that big a deal. Plus, as you pointed out in your video, you are more efficient at a lower speed and achieve a greater range at a lower speed.
I also chose a class 1 bike. All things considered the Fuji 21 speed mountain bike with a 36 volt 250 watt hub motor seemed the best all round choice.
Great points! Thanks so much for taking your time to share your experience.
Highly unlikely that the difference in crash results would very drastically between 20 and 25 . Not like u wouldn't be able to not get away w it
One thing e-cyclists should consider that at 28+ mph, car drivers or pedestrians often get caught off guard with how fast you are going, and can pull out/step out in front of you because of it. I ride with a flashing front lamp and a bright orange full face helmet (Bell Super 2R) to try to give a better warning to others that I'm defying normal bicycle physics. In town and city with 25 mph limit, I take the whole lane and maintain 25 mph, so I'm not breaking the speed limit and also don't have to contend with doors opening or getting cut off as a drivers pass and immediately turn right in front of me.
I prefer the higher speed for sure, but at these speeds, people should be clear, they're no longer doing much of the work. The power needed to maintain 28 mph on a flat is a SUPERHUMAN ~740 Watts (assuming upright riding position, flat barred, 60lb bike with urban tires like you find on most e-bikes). I'm fine with superhuman, because even at those speeds, my e-bike is 20-25 times more economical with energy than a Tesla Model S and bikes cause less congestion. But traveling more slowly, at 20mph requires only 293 Watts, so as you said better battery economy and doing more of the work definitely at play using the lower top speed. www.kreuzotter.de/english/espeed.htm
its not superhuman to hit 28 mph it is just not for your average person.
@@aacc8466 - "assuming upright riding position, flat barred, 60lb bike with urban tires like you find on most e-bikes" Would you agree sustained 740 Watts is superhuman? Chris Froome's FTP is 366W. Admittedly, the added weight of the e-bike isn't a major factor in resistance, but rider position and wearing street clothes create a ton of drag.
@@karlInSanDiego We can both agree that its dangerous outhere forus cyclists and your setup is what im riding with. I hope zero people try to kill us this week while riding our bikes
karlInSanDiego you are right that it is superhuman. Ridiculous power! not even a doped up pro cyclist can maintain 28 mph for very long on the road. In a group? Sure. By himself? Nope. That would require a super light time trial bike and the most aero gear with aerobars along with perfect wind conditions. The 28mph ebike with a good sized battery will outrun the pro cyclist. Other person claiming it isn’t superhuman is a fucking idiot. The fastest, time trialists only ride for 10 miles as fast as they can with perfect wind conditions. The ebike will quickly catch up after 10 miles and swallow them. Try riding 28 mph by yourself and tell me how long you last then tell me it isn’t superhuman. Sorry for the rant. Just not a fan of people who downplay athletic feats. Might as well say benching 500 lbs isn’t superhuman just not for the average person. Lmao
I hit 28 mph regularly on my fitness ride, and I ride in the lowest level of assist (eco mode), still get 50 to 60 miles per charge.
I think the answer is, how fast do you want to be going, if you get in an accident.
How old are you, how long will it take for you bones to heal if you break them.
Speed kills.
I love my e-bike, but I am very aware that my 20-28 miles per hour e-bike, is more like a motorcycle, than a bike, when ridden at those speeds.
Just imagine two 28 mph bikes passing each other, going opposite directions, on a narrow bike/foot path, going around a blind curve......
I live in Germany and I have a 25 kmh 15,5mph Pedelec and an 45 kmh 28 mph Speed Pedelec. For commut the fast one is perfect, but here, you can't use bike path, children seat, trailer...
For fun and for shoping, taking the kids to school... the slower one is perfect. And more of a bike feeling.
Consumption: S-Ped: 20 Wh/km, Pedelec: 6-10 Wh/km. So for longer tours, the slower one takes you further. And it is much less noisy from the wind.
Thanks for sharing this side of it. I know it’s a bit different in the states. I agree that the slower ones will take you further for sure.
How is the consumption when going slower with the S-Pedelec?
Comparable?
@@piusmartin5178 with my Bike absolutely not. The fast one has a 1000 Watt Hub Motor. You can't take it lower than 10 Wh/km. With the slow one and medium power you can get down to about 2-3 Wh/km.
It's really informative videos. In my experience, I have 20 mph eBike, and whenever I go beyond 20 mph on flat road, I feel that the motor holds the the speed down to 20 mph. The max speed I can get out of my eBike is 21.6 mph. As far as in Elk Grove, CA, only class I eBike can be on any trails while class II and class III on bike lanes or on street.
When I first got my e-bike (Kona e-Ute) the 19MPH limit was kind of annoying. I wanted it to "keep going." ...but after a few weeks I got used to it. It would be nice to have the option to go faster when on a narrow road (so I can get closer to keeping up with traffic).
I really get annoyed with all these laws for ebikes. Cars are the hazards on the roads weighing thousands of pounds and going past 100 mph, yet ebikes scare people because they can go 28mph and weigh under 100 lbs?
I thought you were teaching at first reading the comment but thoroughly reading your message let’s me know you make a 100 percent sense 💯 on 🎯 fr
I just ignore the laws
@@deleteduser3455 💯
Have you ever gotten stopped by the cops though?@@deleteduser3455
Thanks for the food for thought. I’ve been riding a 20-mph Cube ebike in San Francisco for about 2-1/2 years and just rolled over 6600 miles. It was my commuter before the pandemic and it’s been my recreation since. Early in the pandemic, when cars were banned from Mt. Tamalpais, I bought a second 500WH battery that I pack with me to make the 45-mile round trip with ease (I only have two bars left on my battery at the turnaround point). I’m wondering if a 28-mph bike would use significantly more power, even if I use Eco and Touring modes a lot. Which also brings up the fact that I rarely ride at top speed, preferring to get a little bit of exercise by using the lower-powered modes. So I’m also wondering if riding 15-17 mph in Eco mode on my Class 1 bike would feel much the same as riding the same speed on a Class 3 bike.
Great video - thanks for making this one. As someone who just bought a 20 mph RM superdelite - it's a decision I struggled with - at that price point you don't want regrets.
Again - at that price point I expect to have the bike for several years and one item I thought about was the increase in popularity of e-bikes and potential for more enforcement a year or two down the road - may never happen but who knows. Would be great if it was more like a 23 and 28 mph options!
Michael Mingo great point....I chose the 28mph but have the same concern and hope I don’t regret it!
There will never be mass ebike enforcement in the US lol.
@@DW94576 I hope not (thinking about getting one myself), but you never know. All it takes is one or two knuckle-heads seriously injuring or killing someone and the powers that be could possibly lay down the the law. Especially if it makes the national news.
I just put money down on a class 3 w/throttle today. I don't have a car, so I plan to use it as my only vehicle, and want it to be able to keep up with traffic if necessary. However, I plan to ride it mainly at low assist or unassisted as much as possible for exercise reasons and battery longevity. The electric is for security for my joint and fatigue issues associated with lupus. I don't want to strand myself far from home because a knee or muscle suddenly decides to malfunction.
This really covered all the bases. I see most say to go with 28mph.. but I went with a level 1 because on my Surly LHT, I rarely go above 20, even downhill.. so getting up to 20mph going uphill is a joy :) I don't commute on my bike because I work from home.. but it is nice to run to the store or just take nice longer and a little faster rides. I know that if I did live in a city and rode with cars, I would want that faster speed, but that isn't likely for me. thanks for the great info
Where I live now, 28 mph bikes aren't allowed on bike paths. That pretty much sealed the deal for me. One of the joys of life is getting to enjoy the tiny bit of infrastructure our city has reserved for bicycles. Plus, our Gazelle is such a beautiful bike, my speed complaints are minimal. :)
20 mph is too fast for many urban trails - especially with runners or walkers. Our county had a hearing about allowing ebikes on the trails. I attended and spoke. I said that it's the rider and not the bike. I have an ebike that is capable of 28 mph, but I have done rides with my group (we are seniors) and averaged 11 mph. What my county opted to do - class 1 and class 3 are allowed on trails because you have to pedal to make them go - with or without assistance. Class 2 ebikes are not allowed because they have a throttle, and are more like a motor scooter than a bike when they are ridden with the throttle only.
It's safer to have the 28 mph bike for one key reason: Sooner or later you will be forced to use a Motor Vehicle Lane. And being slower does NOT improve your safety around pissy motorists.
You need to be able to boogie with the push of a button, or risk getting pasted either deliberately or accidentally.
Besides, you can bloody well do 28mph+ on a decline without any power whatsoever on any bike, and the MAMIL crowd frequently get well over 20 on flat land in bike paths anyways.
Hi Chris. Great videos as usual. Perfect timing for this video as I’m also deciding between high speed or standard. My heart was set on the Load 75 HS but I’m a home visiting optician and travel 25 miles to a different city, do about 20 local miles there (5 home visits) and then travel 25 miles back home. Battery is not an issue as I can charge the batteries at every patient’s house for 1 hour each. I was recently put off by the Load 75 idea as I thought doing 70+ miles round trip may make me feel too tired? How would the Load 75 be for all day riding like that? So I then thought why don’t I just buy the Tern GSD and stick it in my boot. Drive to the other city, then do my home visits on the bike, then stick bike back into car and drive home. What would you recommend?
I commute 40 miles daily with a R&M HS-bike. It takes two hours all in all. Doing almost the double, 70 miles would take 4 hours of your day. My opinion is that doing this on a daily basis is to stretch the limits on what you can hold up in the long run. I do want to encourage longer bike commutes and the Load 75 HS sure is a fantastic bike. But for 70 miles daily I'd try to find other options, including moving closer to the city where I work.
buy a 50w or 100w solar panel hook it up to your power convter when needed to ride on the goo and charge the battery on the go as you ride works great i go 2000 miles round trip tournen charge my battery on the go as long as you have sun out you can keep riding as well as charge your bike battery's works great never have to stop only to use restroom or sleep .lol
@@williamvan909 - where do you attach your solar panels to your bike, to use them on the go?
@@williamvan909 - would you eventually have a link to your electric bike - solar panel set-up, so we can better understand how it works?
Great video with much information I just hadn’t considered. I ride a 28 mph bike. Hadn’t considered or heard of higher torque at lower speeds with 20 mph bikes. I like the 28 to better keep up with traffic pace but I also live in a very hilly area. I like the 28 to also continue assisting when coming off a steep hill and going to the next steep hill. Trying to maintain the higher speed is easier for me on the 28 mph bike. At least that’s my theory. Untested as I don’t have access to a 20 mph bike.
My commute would be city traffic, but going over the Hollywood hills, and sometimes through the passes between Beverly Hills and the San Fernando valley. SO, both hill climbing capacity, and flatland traffic speeds come into play.
Also, when riding my traditional road bike, minimum bicycle weigh was always my goal.
With an e-bike I’m looking at a heavier bike, but a good deal of the weight penalty is overcome by having a motor - EXCEPT if I go to pedal only; now I’m riding an old clunky beach cruiser! And this becomes reality when you ride at the far end range of the battery.
I upgraded to 28mph just because at 20 I was passed by normal bikes .. had a very expensive bike that was too slow.
Thanks for sharing!
It is frustrating. I use a class 1 on the paths to keep with the rules, but racing bike riders fly by far faster, and yet class 3 ebikes are not allowed. Oh well. I’m just out for a nice ride and to enjoy the scenery and typically limit myself to 15mph, which is about what I used to do on my analog bikes. Full turbo mode, easy riding. Just not interested in working that hard anymore, or in risking collisions with others unnecessarily. Crashing hurts! However, on the road I am usually on the class 3, where it’s nice to have that extra 2-3 mph! So much money for just that little bit more, but so worth it sometimes!
The trail system in Colorado Springs has a Class 1 restriction for E-bikes, on the road it doesn’t matter. Which doing 20mph is fine due to walkers and slower riders if riding to fast on a narrow trail more close encounters can happen faster. I’m riding a Scott E -Sud Tour Bosch powered bicycle
Wow! Chris no cap? Thanks for all the videos. Helping me look to what ebike to get this spring
I'm going to go class 2 for my first, primary ebike. I'm going to sell my car and commute on the ebike. There are a lot of hills where I live around Seattle, so torque at lower speeds is important to me. I also want a foldable bike that I can take on a bus if I need to. There aren't many class 3 foldable ebikes from the quick searching that I've done, and the one that I did find from Lectric had fat tires and a smaller battery.
I’ve been riding ebikes for 20 years. Believe me 20 mph is fast enough. In Europe the 15 mph limit is slightly too slow. With a 20 mph limited ebike you’ll go further and live longer. My fastest speed on a 20 mph limited ebike (obviously downhill) is 40 mph, so thrills aren’t ruled out. Riding 28 mph means my cadence becomes too fast and uncomfortable. I don’t understand why 28 mph ebikes aren’t allowed to use bike paths, when unpowered road bikes can with unlimited speed.
You covered a lot of details
It's a great subject
You're the best bicycle rambler I know!
I have the EU 15.5mph Delite and it’s fine for me. It’s a speed where it feels like I genuinely could be riding myself. Except I’m able to maintain that over a much longer distance as well as getting up very tough climbs. Over time I’ve started to feel like the extra 5mph would be perfect and the 25kph does start to feel a little slowish in certain situations.
But if I had the 28mph then it wouldn’t feel like I was riding a bike and that authentic feel is important to my enjoyment I think.
Chris Till I agree! Those extra 5 mph would be perfect in EU. I feel like I’m missing them especially when I’m on long straight transport sections where there’s not too much traffic.
Joel Larsson Yeah and as I ride more often I feel like I can go a bit faster. And also because roadies blast past me all the time :)
in Minnesota we don't even have the option to buy a 28 mile an hour electric bike we're restricted to 20 miles an hour. I have the Raleigh Venture IE 2.0 2019 electric bike with the Bosch performance line motor which will let you exceed 20 miles an hour pedaling. so that's really nice that it doesn't hold you back when you hit the 20 miles an hour point.
The Bosch Gen 3 motor is great for pedaling beyond 20 mph for sure.
28 mph is preferred. And if you don't want to go the full 28 mph, then you don have to. For example, if u have a choice to be handed either $20 or handed $28, choose $28. $28 is preferred.
That’s one way to put it for sure :)
The popular 750w rear hub motor Fat tire Ebikes in the States are only differentiated by a few keystrokes on the display. At the touch of a few buttons you can go 20 to 28 easily. In Michigan all three classes are now allowed on all roads except expressways. Some rail/trails have restrictions but as the industry grows so does their acceptance.
15.5 mph limit in the UK. If only we had 20, never mind 28.
Yeah, I think 20mph is a nice speed for sure.
Totally agree with this! 20 would be perfect
@Tony Edgecombe i think this is why i'm gonna go with the speed version and hope no-body ever checks on the rare occasion i might have to go offroad!
@@StuffOffYouStuff I ordered a RadRhino 5 so if the police or whoever check online, they'll see it's delivered with a speed limit of 25 km/h, but there is a maintenance/engineer's menu where the speed limit can be bumped up to 40 km/h. The controller is still limited to 250 W, but I think that will be fine
Ima about to get a 15mph one I never had one do you still get to peddle tho or do you press a button and it takes off , how does it work
This is an older video but I’m going to comment any way. As a woman I want the most speed possible. I’ve had some situations where I need to get away as quickly as possible when commuting (I’ve had homeless people who have psychiatric problems scream at me, people who live in the streets and sleep on the bike path doing drugs, etc) and the speed makes me feel more secure. My next e bike will be 28 mph for sure
I have a class 3 and typically ride 20-25mph. Only occasionally will I go faster, but do like to, especially in fast groups.
To increase range, pedal more at a lower assist level. I did 100 miles with 1 650Wh battery at 19.5mph average in a group. PAS 3 of 5 and high pedal cadence (80rpm). Shift down at lights.
That’s it! It’s great to be able to know how to get the most range out of your battery.
Thanks Chris for your time. As a senior the 20 mph makes sense to me. I received a Schwinn Meridian trike as a gift and really enjoy it but I could use a little assistance getting up hills or back home when I travel to far from home. What system would you recommend?
This totally makes sense! Sounds like you’re looking to convert your trike to an ebike. I don’t have a specific recommendation as it’s been sometime since we have completed a conversion.
It's kind of crazy that we allow cars to be made with no lilmits while scooters are limited to 15mph, bikes to 20/28mph. I just saw an ad for an SUV being able to hit 160mph. Wth?
Pretty sure, it's because they have to get a license and insurance to operate
@@akikogalvez429 but even with the license and insurance you're not allowed to hit those speeds. It's possible, but it's still illegal
Even cars that can hit 200+ mph will often be electronically limited to 155 mph while on the road for legal reasons (such vehicles will often have a "track" mode). And the cars that can hit ridiculous speeds are at best built as such in order to offer the confidence-inspiring power. Any car also has massively more safety equipment than any e-bike. If you crash a car at 30 mph, you'll likely survive... crash on an ebike at 30 mph, and you won't feel so great. Also, there's nothing that says you can't build a >28 mph ebike... It's just that it would be categorized differently under the law, and that might end up requiring you to use full-face helmets and other safety gear.
Alfa Romeo Stelvio (SUV) 177mph.
@@ShootMyMonkey It’s not just about the safety of the driver, the safety of other road users is important. An SUV that can go that fast is very dangerous for anyone outside of it. (Though less so for other giant pickup and SUV users)
The only times in the past year that I went over 20mph? To out run barking, chasing dogs! For me 20mph is plenty fast on a bicycle. I usually cruise 8 to 14 mph.
Ya, I recently got out my old mountain bike that I haven't ridden in over 10 years to get an idea of how fast 15.5 or 20 mph feels like. My out-of-shape, skinny body was peddling all out on a flat road, and I barely reached 15 mph before getting out of breath. 15 mph felt fast then, so I'd imagine 20 mph would be exhilarating enough for me.
Hello Chris,
Please could you maybe show speed pedelec specific helmets and comment on the differences, prices and brands. Very interesting analysis and considered presentation thank you.
I will work on putting something like this together soon.
I don't intend to buy a new helmet when I have my Class III commuter running. What do you imagine is different about an e-bike? It's so much faster? Erm... no. I am much faster than any e-bike. The e-bike can climb hills better (but slower) and can cover 15 miles (with my help) in less time. It is no more (or less) dangerous than a regular bike. CSPC and/or Snell doesn't distinguish between sub-categories of bicycle usage. Neither do I.
As a now regular ebike rider in traffic at 28mph here's a piece of advice I wish I'd had two years ago. If you're not yet an experienced rider of electric bikes be sure to start out with the speed governor set as low as you can get it, and then gradually increase your max speed as you gain experience. It took me about six months, a dozen crashes/falls, and roughly $500 in replacement parts/repairs to finally get used to riding an ebike. FORTUNATELY I had the good sense to ONLY ride my ebike on sidewalks or bike paths while I made the adjustment.😁
If your in an urban enviroment speed matching to cars and having staying power for taking hills are the reason you want to strongly consider the higher mph capable motors
Chris, thanks for your insight! What brand of water bottle carriage is on the gray bike you were riding? That's a much better placement of them up high.
Great video Chris. I prefer a class 3 - 28mph bike. I feel it's better to have and not need or use, than to want and not have per se. I am excited to see more bikes come out with the new gen 4 Bosch speed motor and their new 625 wh battery.
Thanks! Same here. I’m also excited to see more with this motor and battery combo but there aren’t many. For most the 500Wh is plenty and it gives the bike manufacturer more flexibility with the geometry.
@@Propelbikes I want to visit the Brooklyn store one of these days and test some bikes out. I was hoping that Haibike would put that combo into the 2020 Trekking S 9.0 but I heard they aren't making that model this year. I wish you carried Trek, they have models with the 625wh Bosch battery tube and Speed motor combo in their Allant series.
I doubt that anyone wouldn’t come to this simply conclusion, if it were not for the annoying class restrictions.
I debated this for awhile and went with the xp lite (20 Mph) fits my use case a bit more portable and 20 mph is fast enough for me!
I have had a class 3 bike for a couple of years. While the idea of pushing it to 28 miles per hour to keep up with traffic is great, the cars here don’t drive 28 miles per hour. The cars fly along at 55 to 60 on our 45 mph road. The bike can’t even remotely keep up. I find that I don’t enjoy riding at higher speeds most of the time, my preferred speed is actually around 15 for a bicycle. I have a motorcycle for higher speeds. So, what I’ve done is spent some significant money on a class 1/2 e-bike for bicycle riding, and I’m considering modifying the class 3 to be illegally faster, for riding in the roadway.
Another thing to keep in mind if you purchase an e-bike with a capability of 28 mph is that if you choose to buy an e-bike with a "torque" sensor instead of a "cadence" sensor, you need to make sure the gearing on the bike is capable of letting you apply pressure to the peddles all the way up to 28 mph. Torque sensors require pressure (torque) against the peddles to activate the varying level of assist. No pressure, no assist. Ghost peddling is not rewarded with maximum PAS level speed like a cadence sensor e-bike will provide. Many e-bikes today are sold as Class 2 out of the box, but can be "unlocked" to Class 3 specs through user adjustable software if you like. But if you're already ghost peddling at 20-21mph, with a torque sensor e-bike, you'll never see that 28 mph assist. Your assist will end when the ghost peddling starts. How do I know? I purchased a Class 2 e-bike with a torque sensor because I wanted better control of my motor and also to be required to peddle so I would actually get some exercise. Sure, it has a throttle too (Class 2 limited to 20 mph) but I only use that to get home if I'm exhausted. It's software upgradable to be able to "unlock" the Class 3 capability. I thought great! I could use that extra speed when I have to mingle with traffic. But I discovered with use that the bike was only geared for Class 2 use and the ghost peddling starting at around 20 mph. I could get it to 25 mph if I peddled like a mad man, but that's not practical or reasonable. So what to do? I really loved everything else about the bike except for the gearing limitation, so I purchased a new chainring and cassette with appropriate gearing. A little DIY work and $75.00 later and I had the bike I thought I had purchased. This is my first and only e-bike so I never saw that coming. Just thought I'd point this out for those of you that are unaware of this issue with torque sensor e-bikes. By the way, I do love the torque sensor and don't regret that part of it at all. I just wish the gearing issue was more transparent before the purchase.
Are there any bikes that allow you to have different settings so say you get into town on a shared roadway and you want to be able to keep up with traffic around 28 miles per hour and then you want to have it limited to be legal on bike paths in a city? I'm curious about bikes that you can maybe take the throttle off of to be able to ride in New York City but put it back on when you're back home in a more mixed / rural environment as well. I'm loving all the tern content you're making as folding bikes are amazing! I've got a Brompton but I'm looking for the future and to have a second bike around for when I have company, why not be an Ebike?
I don't know if this is true of all bikes, but at least with mine, I can set the motor assist level, and my throttle will cap at certain speeds. For example, at assist level 1, my throttle will cap at around 7 MPH, and at my max level of 5, my throttle caps at 20 MPH.
Thanks so much Chris! I am trying to decide about which e-bike to buy and this video was very helpful. Is there any way to change the motor from 28 to 20 mph? The one I want to buy assists to 28 mph but I am not interested in speed but weight of the ebike. This ebike is way lighter and better for fitness. What are your thoughts about that?
It's safer to be able to keep up with traffic at 25-28mph than having cars constantly pass you if you were only able to go 20mph
Exactly. It's mostly about when the bike paths aren't available and I need to be in traffic. Having the ability to keep up with the cars is very valuable. Especially here in America, idk about Europe, but here we are very car dependent/focused. Like even in our urban centers, bike lanes are recent features and not comprehensive. So it is very hard to completely avoid driving it in traffic if you are using it to commute/get around town.
These are excellent points you both made.
Exactly, you don't need the added speed, but when you need it to get out off the way, it's nice to have.
That cargo bike is surprisingly nimble. Otherwise the argument seems to favor class III 28 mph - which is what I picked.
I agree. The Load is a very nimble cargo bike. My personal favorite and I do tend to lean towards 28mph.
Living in a hilly area in the US that is not conducive to road riding, but has a few decent bike paths, I find the class 1 to be more often used and useful for recreational path rides (just trying to keep it legal on the paths). However, I also enjoy my class 3 on evening rides around the neighborhood. If you live where road riding is favorable, a class 3 is probably the best choice. I had my class 3 in Texas for several months and enjoyed road riding with friends on their racing bikes who go about 18-22mph, and a class 1 won’t support that overall pace. I was popular in the wind and for leading hot laps haha. I would imagine the ebike’s true domain to be a gridlocked urban city center, regardless of class. Unfortunately, I still find even class 3 ebikes too slow to safely blend with traffic in my area. For two-wheeled errands around and out of town, it’s my trusty maxiscooter or motorcycle.
Nice video.
Watching e-bike riders in my area, I see mostly inexperienced and older riders, so 20 mph e-bikes make sense. Plus we have trails and bike paths which discourage going fast.
Maybe 28 mph is appropriate for experienced riders who commute or ride for work. Or just want to go fast
Really informative video, thanks! But what about the most suitable gear hub if you want to, as easy as possible, reach 28 mph? Is it the Rohloff or Enviolo?
I would say the Rohloff is more efficient with a wider range of gears so it will likely give you an easier time
best explanation of a very important decision a buyer must make. Great education here Chris!
Thanks a bunch Paul! I agree it’s an important decision.
Great info, Chris. A lot of good, logical information!
Choice depends on braking ability and being able to stop in an emergency. 28mph can kill.
Having good brakes, tires and a bike which can accommodate 28mph is critical. Being responsible is also very important.
I want to buy one bike that can switch from Class 2 to Class 3. Why do I have to buy two bikes, one for city (28mph) and one for steep trail climbing (max 20mph)? Should not be tough to manufacture.
This is a great topic as I am considering whether a 20mpg or a 28 mpg is right for me
Glad you enjoyed it!
interesting conversation, but in the end, it all comes down to being polite and representing bike riders: e or manual imo. That's what works for me.
One thing that my bike does and Riese & Müller should do, is have a menu item where you can set the max assist speed. Mine is a Class 3 bike (28mph), but it can be set to cut off assistance anywhere from 20 to 28 mph in 1mph increments. It's not like anybody ever checks, but it can't be that difficult to do. I recently rode in an event that was limited to Class 1 (20mph) ebikes, and just in case anyone ever did check, I would have been good.
I think as an adult I should be able to have the option . my Felt with the Bosch is limited to 20mph and I;'d like to be able or have the option to go 28mph.
I think most would like to have this option. Unfortunately the laws don’t make this an easy feat.
You CAN pedal beyond 20 mph on a class 2 ebike, but the throttle will stop at 20. If they want a 28 mph ebike, then they have to be willing to forgo the throttle and just pedal. Also, I have a Specialized Creo (class 3 ebike). While Turbo mode can make for a very easy commute....if someone wants to hit the 28 mph, they WILL have to push a bit. And that was the same way on my old Giant Road E. The assistance will cut out at 28, but you aren't going to GO 28 without at least a little effort
In the UK the fact we're limited to 16 mph is draconian. You can build a more powerful one but that's not for everyone.
One thing about 28 miles/hour in a city commuting setting is waiting for traffic stop signal, and often enough it may not make much difference from 20 miles/hour after all, because of having to stop for traffic lights, depending on the environment.
This is an excellent point. Japan has a 12mph limit and based on density this probably makes perfect sense.
In the UK they can only go 15.5MPH. A little too slow in my opinion. 20 is just right. I was curious to hear you say there was a difference between the performance line CX and the speed version of the same motor. I've tried to interpret the info on their site and it's not something they mention. To anyone looking at their specs page, the only difference they can see is the Eco mode on the speed gives a bit more than the non-speed. I thought they were essentially the same except one is limited. As a consumer, I'd like it if Bosch could offer a derestriction service you could pay for so if I did change my mind, I could have that done.
I also think it's going to be pretty hard to enforce the law when it comes to going off-road with the 28 mph (UK) pedelecs. It's about being sensible. I still think one of the dumbest ideas in history is allow human beings to drive huge vehicles called cars that can go at speeds well in excess of what is required. When fully autonomous vehicles are ushered in and prevent people from driving whatever speed they like, we will look back at these times as we did with other social calamities and will wonder, "just what the hell were we thinking!?" Similarly, perhaps one day the Bosche motor could sense when you're off-road and automatically restrict the speed!! There's an idea
I don't know which spec page i was looking at but looking again at the performance line and performance line speed i can see there is more different in the modes that just the eco! And you comparison against the CX i mistook for comparing the performance line speed and just the performance line. So my wondering still remains, is the performance line simply just a restricted version of the speed? All other bits being the same?
I enjoyed your video. I am wondering where your shop is, what brands you sell? Which bike would you recommend for an "olde under tall" person who can currently ride a Masi road bike 50 miles or so at 13 to 15 mph with just my legs. I would like to extend my rides to 75 to 100 miles. And I would like the bike to have some trail capability as well.
We have two shops. One in Brooklyn NY and one in Long Beach CA. We work with a variety of brands, mostly using the Bosch motor system. I would check our Riese & Müller and Moustache. Both are great brands for long distance variable riding.
@@Propelbikes thanks
Thank you for all your videos. I am just entering the ebike world & appreciate the information. 🙏🏻
Hi Chris ! : april 2022 I plan on doing an e-bike transamerica Charleston SC to San Diego CA . I live in Argentina ( but have lived in the US 12 years ), and I have a ''Specialized turbo com 5 '' stepthrough e-bike , with which I'm very happy. My plan is to buy an e-bike in the USA just for this trip , which I intend to do without hurry in aprox 4 months. Question : which e-bike would YOU use for a trip like this and : which brands e-bikes do you sell ? Do you also sell accesories, such as shock absorbing seats, extra.batteries, etc .?
All I know is that end up being confused, almost two years later I still don't know which ebike to get. Even if it goes 30 miles an hour at 310 lb, that bike is not going to go 30 miles an hour up here or on flat ground. But in Philly try telling the police and the cops that my 50cc scooter will never go past 15 mph with me on it and groceries lol 🤨
Here in Europe the limits are 25km/h and 45km/h. There is absolutely no point to take the 45km/h model because it is compared to a moped (50cc) and you can no longer ride ANY cycling paths or lanes.. So you are forced to cycle with the cars all the time AND you'll get a mandatory insurance about 200+€/year. And if someone living here still is considering it he or she must remember that it will also be a very hard sell if you ever need to get rid of it.
I feel pretty safe on my 28 when playing in traffic. My goal is to get a speeding ticket in a 25 MPH zone.
I got a 20 mph as my first ebike to keep things safe. I figured I've gone all this time without any pedal assist, so 20 mph is enough. I'll save the 28 mph for when I'm more experienced. I can always sell that one and go up if I feel truly deprived.
Coming back for this vid and after more experience on my bike 20mph is good enough speed on a bike it's really about how much range can you get and sustain that 20mph
I too recently purchased a 20 mph ebike, and really not missing the extra 8 mph. On each ride there are one or two stretches where at 20 the motor drops out, but honestly that's plenty fast, and my Gazelle pedal effort feels pretty natural if I want to keep pushing it
@@kippywylie yea I love my bike I chose a little more portability over speed for my first ebike since my bike weighs 46 pounds rather than the heavier and faster 64 pound model (I have the xp lite) at times I do wonder about the 28 mph speed but then I lose the thought thinking of the pros of a 20 mph bike like the added safety from less speed and going slower saves battery aswell and I bike For distance .
If I only had the possibility to chose a 20 mph e-bike in Europe :/ Great videos by the way!
Thanks! I think many wish the same
I wish I could get 28 in Texas the limit is 20 :/
A lot of 65+ year old people are already killing them self with 25km/h and especially in the Netherlands it's so safe to cycle because the top speed on the cyclelanes is 25km/h. I you were to make some kind of geolocked speed limiter you could allow 35 or even 45km/h bikes on the faster routes between cities with some mandatory training and numberplate, but maybe you even need to make a seperate track. I think for distances that it really matters public transport makes more sense for society as a whole. The torque to get up hills and for cargo bikes is good enough and 25km/h is fast enough for most people.
@@woutervanr Yes, 25km/h is plenty fast when in town and on bicycle lanes. But if you like me lives on the countryside, there would be nice to go just a little faster.
@@joelj0el I totally understand that there wil be situations where a faster e-bike would be nice, there is always exceptions. It's really easy to enforce a speed limit in the rest of the country by just not making/selling bikes that can go faster though. You see how much effort is put into slowing down cars and fining them. You don't want that with bikes.
I can see plenty of ways it could be managed, but clearly for now the most practical and safe for everyone is just this 25km/h speedlimit.
Safety of the rider is also a bigger issue at these higher speeds and I wouldn't want to open the door to mandatory helmet lobbyist.
Another great vid, thank you, Chris. 👍
I definitely know I want a 28mph top speed bike. That doesn't mean I want to achieve top speed all the time. Just that I want that capacity. So for me, I want to know my lowest price options so I can compare the different features. Eg: suspension, brakes, motor torque, removable head/brain and security features,etc. I especially would prefer to have a folding bike and I'm leaning (really leaning) toward a 20" wheel fat tire. I'm also a huge hiking fan. Having lived in Sedona for 11years I hiked almost every day. Unfortunately, a few years after I moved I developed osteo-arthritis and my hiking career was over. I even had to get rid of my 10 speed racing bike. Now I see these electric bikes put me in a straight up position and I've now been given the green light by my doctor's to buy one. So I do want it for hiking, and the rules in Vegas are completely different than in AZ. and pedaling is, in fact, great for my health & condition. So I'm definitely in the market.
Great video.
Thanks
This is a very good article. I appreciate your thoughts. Thank you.
I’m a big fan of the channel. Would you share what brand your glasses are lol, yes I know it’s not what you expected. If not no problem. Thx.
Thanks! I’m a big fan of them as well. They are Oliver People’s. Below is a link:
www.oliverpeoples.com/usa/0OV5183--1465
Awesome!!! Thx!
I am only a fan of electric bikes up to 25 km/h in urban areas. If we want more people to choose electric bikes, then safety is all that matters. In larger cities, there are so much traffic that e-bikes do not reach above 25 km/h anyway.
Thanks. Answered a lot of questions for me. 👍🏽
Glad it was helpful!
Another great video! Thank you for your insight.
Thanks! Very much appreciated
I have a bafang 1000 with 52 volt battery on a mountain bike, it will go 32 but normally ride about , 18 just nice to have the extra when I feel like it.
I'd really like to see your reviews include what cadence (at the highest gear ratio) is necessary to hit a bike's top assisted speed. I have an R&M Charger with the Nuvinci CVT and, in order to hit its 28 MPH top speed, I have to be pedaling at a very, very high cadence. Ideally, you should be able to hit the bike's top assisted speed (on a level surface and in the highest gear ratio) with a cadence of about 80 RPM.
I am riding a cargo bike, and hit the top speed cut out all the time. I would just like the extra oomph to maintain my speed with other cyclists or move out of the way of cars.
Great point
Thanks so much for the great video! Can you recommend a few 28 mph cargo bikes of the long tail variety? Thanks again.
Thanks for your comment John Sommo. We actually made a video on this topic and I have listed it below.
th-cam.com/video/4ddhPag8E54/w-d-xo.html
Let us know if this answers this question or if you want us to cover the topic more deeply.
I have about 2 or 3 miles of country road to get to safer (slower) roads in the city. The 28 mph available makes me feel safer going down that stretch because I'm flowing with traffic better. Sometimes I feel like the extra speed makes me safer in certain situations. I stay under 20 most of the time to conserve battery.
20 mph bikes are safer than 28 mph in an accident. At 20 mph you get bicycle injuries, at 28 you're going fast enough to get motorcycle injuries. Having had motorcycle injuries, I know which I prefer.
I want a 20mph bike because I want an e-bike for serious commuting, so I want something I can take wherever I need to go, including restricted paths where faster bikes are banned.
Quick question, on the video there is yellowish (gold) bike what brand and model is that?
Most of these new ebikes have 2 modes 1. 20 mph; 2. 28 mph to get around local bike trail laws. Unfortunately, many ebike riders exceed speed limit on bicycle trails. These "class 2" ebikes are really class 3 with speeds up to 70 mph and 3000 watts of torque, which is illegal on trails. Not supposed to ride anymore than 20 mph on bicycle trails here in CA. As you can probably tell as a devoted road cyclist, I am not a fan of ebikes.
Amazing video . Can someone please tell what's the Brand of the yellow bike at 1 :08. and the grey bike at 4:18 ? they look Amazing .
The yellow one is the Riese & Müller Supercharger2 propelbikes.com/product/riese-muller-supercharger2/ and the grey one is the Charger3 propelbikes.com/product/riese-muller-charger3/
I have a 7yr old beloved Urban Arrow family model, but I want to go faster than 20mph sometimes. What are my options for front box model that go up to 28? Do I need to switch to Reise & M?
If only it was 20mph over here in the UK. 15mph is just bollocks. I used to have a Tongsheng powered eBike and the immediate drop-off in power at 15mph was jarring. If you're averaging about that it would pulse on and off as you got either side of the limit. I just test rode a Riese und Muller Delite and the Bosch wasn't quite as bad around the limit - but it was still annoying to be going so slow compared to the traffic in the city, so I ordered the HS. I asked if the CX motor name plate would fit in the place of the Speed Line plate and the shop said sure, they got a few customers swapping the name plate to keep the performance under the radar. I don't really need 28mph, since most of the roads I commute on are 20mph, but having the ability to keep up when other vehicles are going that fast, or a bit quicker, is important to me. Complying with all the other regulations that apply to motorcycles, whether they do 28mph or 228mph; not so much. If the government met ebike riders half way and produced a vehicle class that was closer to bicycle regulations but perhaps required a road safety course and 3rd party liability insurance - sure I'd register and comply. Treating a 28mph bike as being in the same class as a Hayabusa is just asking people to disregard the law.
We definitely have a way to go until these things are understood and regulated as such. In the meanwhile please stay safe.
what you are describing is a speed pedelec in the Netherlands, 45km/h / 28mph limited bicycle, but you have to follow moped rules: a good helmet, license plate, insurence, possibly an AM (moped) drivers license and you can't use bicycle paths.
Great Video! With the 28 mph ebike, can I go 28 mph with just throttle and no pedaling? Can I go faster than 28 mph with pedaling and throttle?
Not every Ebike has throttle. The higher end bikes don't, generally. The motor gives you varying amounts of assistance. Keep watching the videos, they are very informative.
Mine goes 0-35 mph.. I can set it to go anything between. Good to have the power and adjustability for all circumstances . 👍
I see different things in the buckets of the cargo bikes. Can you do a video of the options you can have with the load 60 and cost and why you may want somethings over others depending on what you want to do. I know they have something for taking you kids with you but what else is there?
I’ll try and do something soon on that. You can see all of the options on the r-m.de website as well
forget about top speed : engine torque is a much more important parameter.
what's the point of having a 28 mph bike if it barely reaches this speed on the flat because of an insufficient torque ?