I'm sorry but Josh, Rachel, nor Olivia was going to join that panel if they couldn't speak how they really felt about decisions being made. They had to cut that part out.
This wording @30:43 along with their "lifetime" agreement to never talk negatively about wizards as a company is such a dystopian thing to have in a "Community" driven format.
Still not as dystopian as sending death threats over a card game though lmao I always love hearing the people try and justify their childish behavior and bad financial decisions 😂
Wizards always had the last word. The RC decided no planeswalker as your commanders, one of the cornerstone rules of the format, and wizard printed cards literally saying "this can be your commander" overruling the RC. And the community accepted it. That punk test was failed a long time ago.
Logical fallacy. RC banned 3 cards worth a combined $400 and caused turmoil and rancor amongst hundreds of thousands of people. Wizards asked them not to and they did anyways.
The cards were busted and should have been banned a long time ago. The RC was supposed to ban based on what would make the format better, not how much money you paid for a piece of cardboard.
Let's remember that the RC told them, emphatically, NOT to print Jeweled Lotus. They did it anyway. THIS is my baseline expectation of how things will work. The panel will be listened to, unless it costs them money.
Who cares if they said not to print Jeweled Lotus though? It's just a card. It's good, not universally great, and who are they to decide what cards get printed? Rule 0 Rule 0 Rule 0
having a baseline to understand the power of cards is not useless. It helps players to better understand deck construction and have better rule 0 conversations.
@@andrewbays494 The baseline is very simple: if my LGS makes a commander event, can i stop the dude with five moxes in his deck from participating? If brackets don't stop that type of player, they're useless. Most people don't go to their LGS to discuss Philosophy with you. They don't want to have a "rule 0 conversation"; they just want to play the goddamn game.
I encourage everyone just to do it themselves, encourage your own local community chats and discussions on bannings, tournaments, and what you want to see at certain levels or types of play.
I believe they added the "wizards get the final say" part just to protect the individuals on the CFP from community backlash. Seems like the decision making will still mostly be done by the panel.
@@emmanuelrojas154 imagine all this backlash and they just do what everyone is mad about. Stiffly, you don't have to imagine because that's what you believe
Forgive me for being negative but I'm not smiling until I see if their changes actually help the format; my expectations for them are still low right now.
@@indrafides2648 Sounds like its Hasbro's fault and not Wizards...getting upset with the wrong people changes nothing. Hasbro will continue making the decisions that give wizards this bad rep and wizards has to take it.
The way they have Gavin Verhey reporting on the decisions of the Pauper committee seems like a good model to divert future fan rage over Commander bans. When it's a WotC employee taking "the buck stops here" responsibility for decisions, then it's kinda like, they represent WotC and some people will be mad at WotC no matter what they do.
I’ve been wondering this from the start as well. The RC only had any say over the overall format because the community agreed that having a central arbiter of the rules was a good thing. They did not have “control” over the format to give away. What prevents another community group stepping up as the new RC outside of WoTC?
@@DiabloTommaso they abandoned us I was against the mana crypt and dockside bans but I rather have the RC maintain control if it meant leaving them banned. They failed and abandoned the community
Josh Lee literally came out with a video saying that he wouldn't join the new committee and then he goes and joins the new committee seems ridiculous that he went back on his word
It’s not ideal for sure, but it seems like WotC has to officially have the final say (even if they don’t use that power) so they can take responsibility, and take on any toxic blowback. If the community panel had final say, then we could get a repeat of what just happened. I think that’s something we need to avoid above all. Hopefully they don’t abuse that power
“The Community” did nothing wrong. An extremely vocal minority of deranged man-children/woman-children acted out because they made some fiscally unsound decisions. It’s insulting to every player who had nothing to do with the harassment/death threats to bundle them in with the splinter of the player-pool who acted out. The CFP are contractually bound to Shill for Daddy Hasbro, and given how Gavin has frequently fallen silent during moments of MtG/WotC being criticized by content-creators of shows he appears on, there is reason to at least suspect *he* is contractually bound in a similar manner. More than that, the CFP are nothing but a new CAG. It’s smoke and mirrors meant to draw the eyes of less-informed MtG consumers away from all those driven-by-nothing-but-profit-decisions WotC/Hasbro is going to make. Frankly, I don’t believe Gavin is a bad man, but he IS a Company Man. His allegiance is to the company, and not at all to this community anywhere that his loyalty to said corp would be contravened.
@@darriuscaldwell4305Parents? No. Greedy and petulant children forced good people out with death threats and left it in the hands of an atrocious, greedy, and short-sighted corporation.
@@darriuscaldwell4305it's the difference between a parent that wants you to do well so they can retire and live off you and a parent that actual cares about your well being. I'll let everyone decide which is which
Problem with Wizards and Gavin, is that the MTG "Community" is just top content creators and MTG judges. Non of these people are actually in touch with the MTG communities.
Not really. There is a reason why those content creators are popular. Also, what exactly "being in touch with MTG communities" mean and how it can be even measured? Yeah, exactly there is no such thing. MTG experience may vary completely based on hundred different factors. For me and many other people majority of creators/players from western world could be considered "out of touch" because of MTG products prices...
What would be the alternative? Welcome Greg from some random LGS in Norddakota to the panel? It makes sense, Influencers have all their own community and can gather feedback that way
The people with large community reach are the people with the beat way to gauge community feedback and gather data about community sentiment and deck composition
what did you expect?, this is a community who worship these broken cards and believes they should be untouchable by the banlist because money, they got so mad cause big money cards got banned they literally sent the RC threats and now we're here. MTG is basically becoming less and less a card game and more and more an excuse to line the pockets of greedy investors who don't understand that these are game pieces and see them more as baseball cards and ways to line pockets. the entire MTG community is run like the Orzhov Syndicate, greed, greed and greed are all that drive this community now and the card game is an afterthought. just look what happened to the RC, people weren't mad because they genuinely believed these cards were fair and balanced and didn't deserve the bans they got.
They did say jeweled lotus was a mistake followed up by saying some of magics mistakes are peoples favortite cards to play with. If the new rules group deems they should be unbanned then why shouldn't they? more restrictions only hinder players. Teach them to have proper rule 0 conversations and play what you want. The format being "too fast" is not a problem its just now how SOME people want to play.
In all honesty, I strongly disagree with the inclusion of JLK. I want strong voices of dissent, and I am not confident HE will push back against WotC decisions. Ultimately, I just don't trust any of Gavin Verhey's bosses, since any of em can just force an anti-player or anti-gameplay decision onto commander in pursuit of immediate profits :/
I think he’s been pretty fair of his criticism good and bad, and him leaving the CAG was actually quite the statement….i am sorta surprised and a bit disappointed he signed that agreement to not criticize them for that reason.
@@thekurtrussell4007the goal is to get the most outspoken people so that wotc csn shut them up with the non-disparagement clause. Its a pity they didnt manage to snare the professor in this
@@gabrielsoo2939 like honestly if they don’t take the input and they do what a lot of people fear they would do this new committee could just quit and start their own new RC. I’m not too concerned
I guarantee wizards is gonna use this rotating panel to stack the panel with people that support them. I wouldn't be surprised if a year from now the entire old rc is completely replaced
It wasn't some. It was a lot of the community got upset over the last banning. It's been over half of all the players at the 6 local game stores I play at.
Wotc can't manage their own formats such as modern or standard, example look at both formats over the last couple years. Why should i even be remotely interested in listening to their suggestions for my commander games at my lgs.
1) Wizards owns the product, they have and always will do what they want with it, everyone else involved has been and (most likely) always will be advisory only. 2) The ONLY reason why this hit everyone like a storm and RC went back to WOTC is because of the deplorable actions by the, albeit very small portion, of the community, which is inexcusable. Happy with the people in the new group. 3) I personally would prefer MTG as a whole not be focused so much on the secondary market, it's annoying that there's a pay to play component to the game to get access to better cards, especially for paying $10+ for ONE decent land card. Yes, I know you can have a decent budget deck, but lets be honest, the good ones cost more. I COULD do proxies, but I'd rather support the game instead of "borrowing" from it.
Just typing a comment early enough for mitch to see. Hi! Loved your videos since you started. Tysm for improving your content. i love coming back to magic and seeing your channel having grown so much.
I again feel a supervised (as in the type of model) machine learning model combined with the labeled data from the thousands of decks the PlayEDH discord group has, overall, successfully rated into 4 categories would be perfect for power bracket assignment (or at least to identify key cards for each level). EDHRec also already has the data likely formatted in a way that would work with little changes if you cross reference links to decks with ones from the discord. I barely know what I'm even doing with machine learning model design and even I think I could still create something partially functional fairly easily with everything that's already available from these groups.
That's what I was saying! If you're having trouble calculating synergy then pull from edhrec! If your deck has like half the cards recommended for a top tier deck with X commander then yeah that'll affect your bracket FAR more than a single tutor. They just gotta cross-reference in a neat little website where u punch your deck in and it'll spit out your bracket.
Lol a bunch of content creators who started playing magic less than 4 years ago. Sick, another cool kids club, I'll stick to my 1v1 formats. You clowns can keep your circus. Like isn't that power dragon guy a standard arena streamer? Like wtf does he have to do with commander?
Not a bad selection for the group, but let us remember that in the end the call on what to ban or un ban or to do nothing is entirely on WOTC , and they arenot going to do anything that hurts the bottom line.
You say it's not going to affect casual commander tables and playgroups. Have you considered that people might decide to curate their playgroup around the level that they enjoy to play at? This enables Quicker rule 0 conversations
Honestly isn’t the focus on power level like a biggest mistake? I mean we used to be fine without it and now some one thought it’s a great idea to give us a crutch to rely on.
If any of these people signed that lifetime NDA then I can't listen to anything they have to say. Especially someone like Josh Lee Kwai, who has always been very outspoken. Him signing something like that would seem almost hypocritical.
I’m a little confused as to why people are surprised large content creators were selected for the panel. Who else would they have join? Just some random guy wotc chooses in MTG Arena?
@@martinksk88 well, the panel’s there for recommendations and opinions FOR wizards, no? I assume especially when it comes to printed cards on the design team for commander oriented stuff so we can avoid more jeweled lotuses and docksides
Olivia was on the RC not the CAG, so glad she's part of the new panel, still annoyed a bunch of rich aholes forced this to happen over a banning that should have happened a while ago
Why 17 members? Maybe they issued more invitations and these were the only people who agreed to join. I really wish we could see Michael Lynch, the Prof or best of all Larry on the rules panel. These are all people who have a deep love, commitment, and understanding of Commander. But on the other hand having an odd number of panel members does mean that you can come to a majority decision easier than having an even number of members.
The Prof would never sign a contract requiring him to never criticize Wizards of the Coast. He does review videos, so he has to have that ability. New rules committee basics are: you can never criticize Wizards, and Wizards is free to ignore anything the RC says. It is designed to be worthless.
I feel like to the average person it's going to be the same because the old group got to make the final call. Wizards heaven the final call isn't much different.
Also, the nadu doesn't make sense to me either since krark and sakashima exist , which is the exact same play pattern but worse cause it's on every turn
I see some people in the comments state that the new RC can't speak negatively via a contract? Could somebody please provide a timestamp? I was unable to see where this was mentioned.
I feel that the small group that did the death threats were less players and more investors in commander specific cards and MTG cards in general. I only have about 2k in MTG. (so NOTHING in the MTG investor scope, just a dozen mid power commander decks). But Hasbro has to placate their shareholders. .. .. ..... ........ (it needs to look like it has value even if it is just cardboard)
Agree, and in the end the investor types death threats worked. now with wizards running the show they will never have to worry about their investment portfolio loosing value, they won and the commander community the actual players we lost big.
@@azarite7932 Here's the thing though. As I've always said, the game is only valuable as long as it's being played. If no one is playing the game, the cards are worthless. Who would the investors be able to sell their cards to then? Each other? The game players have always been more important than the investors and maybe it's time to show Hasbro that.
@@Arctanis-vt3hl agree. The investors and wizards just look at the money they don't think about what happens if we move on because that's never happened before. I doubt people will ever really stop buying products and even if they did the whales in the investor scene mean the game could float along for a long time on just them. Wizards will chase the money and the money won this. Hopefully we all get smart though and ignore their format and continue on with our own that's the best case here.
As someone with multiple 5 color decks im praying they DONT unban Coalition Victory. Cards not fun or good for the format. It being legal means if i sit down with a 5 color decks people are gonna start just assuming im playing free win cards.
At this point, I am only playing MTG Arena because paper is 1.) Expensive 2.) A roulette wheel on what stays legal. Digital magic like Arena and TTS seems to avoid the drama.
Expect to see chase card bans only after the chase cards sell out a product. Not anyone who loves the game’s fault, just how corporations work. Don’t believe me? Look at the gaming industry.
So, since JLK and Rachel signed on to never criticise WotC again, command zone will only be telling us that every card is amazing, we should buy more and to trust WotC huh?
The RC got to make the final choice and it shows when they decided on the recent bans without consulting the other group so what the RC said goes. It's no different. It's trading one tyrant for another. 😂
I am making a New Format in my pods. Similar to EDH format but no Universal and Beyond cards allowed. Example is that if the card text came from UB card then its banned. UB SETS are Transformers card,Godzella cards,DR Who,LOTR,Marval etc u get the point cards. I dont mean the art I mean the text aka game mechanic of what the card does. Example Moth Man from fallout with Rad Counters bs its banned in my pods.. Even if they made the card a Magic the gathering art and name its still originally from the Moth man soo its banned. Now People wonder what about when they make the new marval cards is the commander plate legal in my pod yes. Because its still commanders plate not op bs.
I think we're still going to have to worry about it cuz wizards may have it but the one who is ultimately going to make that decision is going to be Hasbro. If they see cards that can eventually make them more money that's banned they'll tell him to unband it throw it in a set that way they can make more money. I'm hoping it doesn't happen but with but the way wizards is pumping out products left or not because of Hasbro that makes me worried.
Lol, "gave". The fact that people that care about the EDH format and community signed that contract that does not let them speak their mind about WotC and the choices they make is terrible. The panel is there to make it look like WotC cares about the community. Papa Hasbro only cares about the $$$ and how they can monitize the EDH community even more .
If the "don't complain clause" exists then I don't see how the crp is even remotely useful for the community. They might just as well appoint some WoTC employ to write the format updates every so often and be done with it.
Yep! Here is the deck list: tcgplayer.pxf.io/4PBOnM And for context, here is the episode where I talk about why I don't play it anymore: th-cam.com/video/3msybxqxI7U/w-d-xo.html
Again. Id like to propose a new format "Legacy Commander". All the same rules as Commander, same ban list as what the RC set and only set up to duskmourn are legal.
I can totally see where sone of the fear comes from, between these people basically working for Wizards, and the contract bit that restricts them from EVER talking against the company. I do tend to be a more pessimistic, money-pushed person, and we do know that Hasbro, till all are one, has, and will continue to, squeeze WotC for simple profit, especially as other of their under-the-umbrella assets continue to flounder, but I'm hoping to see at least some good from this. Withe the new panel being a legit part of Wizards, they might get an even better window to seeing future cards. Wizards doesn't tend to theorize, design, and produce a product in weeks, or even months, but a couple of years, so perhaps the panel will be more involved even in the brainstorming phase, and be able to better voice their opinions internally before more resources have already been spent, and designer hopes raised. Honestly, it would be nice if those designers had already noticed a product was iffy, like Nadu, Hogaak, or other "how was this ever play-tested?" cards, but if other people with a better finger on the pulse of the community can now see into it sooner, maybe it will work, at least some of the time. I'm iffy on brackets, but it's mostly because player opinions will always be so diverse. To be fair to Wizards, it's not like the community ever had a better, or more standard, "rating system" for decks. What was a PL 7, again? Who decided? What factors? In a handful of ways, cards aren't powerful; how they interact, when they ideally go off, is powerful. Different people will have different opinions. If we watch videos here, salt comes from things like Eminence, tax breaks, or land destruction, but other players might not think that "a free leyline" is that much more powerful (4), or that it's fair Green gets to ramp as a color identity element, but popping them is "frowned upon", so Wizards is going to have to try pretty hard to make a system that does anything, when the active community never did, and EDH kept working. Will also be interesting to see if some app, or site, designed to moderate these decks wi become a paid service, or require a membership, like D&D Beyond? Personally, I'm less worried. The way I see it, Wizards control over Commander is still kind of unofficial. For literally years, people have been playing this format in their homes, and LGSs, wirh no real oversight from the corporate overlords. If WotC, or Hasbro, make particularly ugly decisions, there's only really so far their decisions can reach. If I don't like something in the new D&D format, I can elect to ignore it, and I think Wizards will find that the same is true here. They'll obviously want to make fat stacks, as Hasbro will press, but if they want to maintain sway over the community, they'll need to be a bit more light touch, or else the panel will just be ignored, and people will just continue to play "classic Commander" locally, without worrying what the big bad company says. It will go back to unofficially policing itself, e en if in a less unified way, and Wizards knows that, so I think they'll try to do what we want more, at least at first, maybe until a certain amount of the play base rotates out, and fewer will have the first person experience of how the game is, or was.
There's a certain level of forethought you need to fall below to sign whatever toxic positivity clause they gave for being on the RC. I'm guessing it was for fame and exposure, or to tick a box on WotC's end.
I mean, the community never had input on the Commander Rules Committee. So it was a community driven format where no one in the community ever had any direct impact on the format. So is it worse that Wizards makes the call or like 5 of Sheldon's friends make the call? Clearly they didn't take anyone's feedback into account. Not even their own members. Good riddance.
I love Magic. I have loved magic since I was 11 and Mirrodin was just coming out. I love Magic still. I think it is the best tcg ever made. I don’t know why it is so hated in every comment section I come across.
Big Dif between Pauper and Commander; Pauper cards are cheaper and pauper is played by a relatively small number of mostly thoughtful unhipster types. Commander cards are expensive and commander is played by the internet, using decks designed by the internet, using cards pushed by the internet. The internet will do its thing, I fear.
I'm losing a little enthusiasm for what this bracket system is. If it's optional they shouldn't unban anything. Some people don't see commander as a social format.
I will allow myself to be naïve enough this time, and believe that the RC will be the ones actually making the decisions, and Wotc won't enforce their power. That said, the only true rule in Commander is Rule Zero. If I want to use a Charizard as my Commander in my dragon tribal deck, and my group is ok with it, no one will be able to stop me from doing that.
"And my group is okay with it" is the problem. Rule zero is dumb. The banlist was fine as is, because people weren't allowed to play stupid stuff like my little pony and other "UN" cards that aren't part of magic.
tbh this is still a bad idea.for example my ur dragon loses to my friends anabella broken doll deck everytime. one is a 4 one is a 2... this does not work because it is about how fast can this ramp versus this being able to kill a table on turn 5 which dragons can never do
im not understanding all the miss truce ? I understand making a profit but its a game we have the power to buy or not. I don't believe they are the bad guys and its our game its their company and always been.
The members who got the harassment in the first place WERE ALSO employees. They got flak specifically because they were insiders who were paid to promote Magic, who having inside info knowingly screwed over everyone who bought a box in the last year. And you can bet the ban didn't go over well with WotC either. So much refunds, so many angry calls from WPN shop owners, everyone involved being blamed for a multi-million rug pull. Complete loss of consumer confidence in Hasbro's biggest brand. All because Olivia from Marketing banned all the chase cards they were relying on to justify $140 for normal boxes. You can bet Karen from Customer Service is gonna tell Olivia "I know what car you drive." In fact I'd say most of the credible threats were from other employees for these reasons.
So long as wizard's is driving the bus, I am getting off. Rule 0 September 1st and September 28th Ban Lists for thoes who want no Dockside ect. & Beyond that Rule 0 talks around.
Gaving Verhey is the guy who designed all the power crept cards that have ruined the format. He will lead the format straight into dockside/jeweled lotus hell
Oh goodie the new sellouts are here. Good to know Wizards new mouthpieces and scapegoats have the games best intentions at heart. I just know they'll be honest
What a bunch of content creators that are pro wizards are on the panel I’m shock!/s. Also wizards saying they’ll make the final choice so this panel of “experts” is all pointless lol
For those not paying attention, remember why JLK quit the advisory group because of all this b.s. well sounds to me like he knew what was gonna happen before anyone this started and then did what he did and made up excuses, just like someone else that works with him, both lied and are now on the new rules committee deal, all they are, are yes people and know more than they are saying to the public, sounds like insider trading to me, I'm just saying, pay attention to the attention seekers!!
![ILLSLICK - THE KING'S LANDING [Freestyle]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/feIJJnNkTfk/mqdefault.jpg)
Can’t complain……no really, they can’t complain!!!
Ba-zing.
Apparently they retracted that part.
@@anthonysulpizio2269 ::Thor face::
Did they tho…?
I'm sorry but Josh, Rachel, nor Olivia was going to join that panel if they couldn't speak how they really felt about decisions being made. They had to cut that part out.
@@frankmorris4603 That’s great if true. Do you have a link?
This wording @30:43 along with their "lifetime" agreement to never talk negatively about wizards as a company is such a dystopian thing to have in a "Community" driven format.
It’s a money driven format for real now
Still not as dystopian as sending death threats over a card game though lmao I always love hearing the people try and justify their childish behavior and bad financial decisions 😂
@@MatthewBreckpinkerton driven?
It's all part of the same distopinion universe. @@imnotacat5299
@@imnotacat5299 Why not both?
Wizards always had the last word.
The RC decided no planeswalker as your commanders, one of the cornerstone rules of the format, and wizard printed cards literally saying "this can be your commander" overruling the RC. And the community accepted it. That punk test was failed a long time ago.
Logical fallacy. RC banned 3 cards worth a combined $400 and caused turmoil and rancor amongst hundreds of thousands of people. Wizards asked them not to and they did anyways.
The cards were busted and should have been banned a long time ago. The RC was supposed to ban based on what would make the format better, not how much money you paid for a piece of cardboard.
Let's remember that the RC told them, emphatically, NOT to print Jeweled Lotus. They did it anyway. THIS is my baseline expectation of how things will work. The panel will be listened to, unless it costs them money.
Who cares if they said not to print Jeweled Lotus though? It's just a card. It's good, not universally great, and who are they to decide what cards get printed? Rule 0 Rule 0 Rule 0
"Brackets are optional"
Strange way of saying they're useless.
They’re useless unless you find them useful. As is every product ever
having a baseline to understand the power of cards is not useless. It helps players to better understand deck construction and have better rule 0 conversations.
@@andrewbays494 The baseline is very simple: if my LGS makes a commander event, can i stop the dude with five moxes in his deck from participating? If brackets don't stop that type of player, they're useless.
Most people don't go to their LGS to discuss Philosophy with you. They don't want to have a "rule 0 conversation"; they just want to play the goddamn game.
I encourage everyone just to do it themselves, encourage your own local community chats and discussions on bannings, tournaments, and what you want to see at certain levels or types of play.
Yeah, not going to trust anything they have to say. Signed contract to not say anything negative? No thank you.
I believe they added the "wizards get the final say" part just to protect the individuals on the CFP from community backlash. Seems like the decision making will still mostly be done by the panel.
That's super niave it's Hasbro not Wizards that has the final say
@thegoldenghoti7562 perhaps, but im an optimist🤷🏻♂️ we'll just see how things go
Hahaha play magic much? No seriously though, that's wishful thinking.
@@emmanuelrojas154 imagine all this backlash and they just do what everyone is mad about. Stiffly, you don't have to imagine because that's what you believe
Forgive me for being negative but I'm not smiling until I see if their changes actually help the format; my expectations for them are still low right now.
@@indrafides2648 Sounds like its Hasbro's fault and not Wizards...getting upset with the wrong people changes nothing. Hasbro will continue making the decisions that give wizards this bad rep and wizards has to take it.
@@frankmorris4603agreed but doesn't change the facts. Wizards will keep making profit driven decisions to keep daddy Hasbro alive.
Article says on the right things. But if that lifetime gag order is legit, it all means very little
Being able to publicly discuss positive and negative that are only approved by an overlord is not freedom.
The way they have Gavin Verhey reporting on the decisions of the Pauper committee seems like a good model to divert future fan rage over Commander bans. When it's a WotC employee taking "the buck stops here" responsibility for decisions, then it's kinda like, they represent WotC and some people will be mad at WotC no matter what they do.
29:15 Olivia was a member of the RC, not the CAG, right?
Correct! She did start in the CAG though. Sheldon before his passing brought her and Jim from spike Feeders into the RC.
She has been both
Commander is not WotC's format. The community needs to stand on this. Its belongs to the community.
Embrace Proxies in your pods.
the old rc didn t stand for us as well
I’ve been wondering this from the start as well. The RC only had any say over the overall format because the community agreed that having a central arbiter of the rules was a good thing. They did not have “control” over the format to give away. What prevents another community group stepping up as the new RC outside of WoTC?
@@DiabloTommaso they abandoned us I was against the mana crypt and dockside bans but I rather have the RC maintain control if it meant leaving them banned. They failed and abandoned the community
@@DiabloTommasobro don’t act like we’re oppressed, you can play the format however you want with friends
@@andresmarini5044 oh no we are not. i m just against the narrative that rc was ever on our side
Josh Lee literally came out with a video saying that he wouldn't join the new committee and then he goes and joins the new committee seems ridiculous that he went back on his word
Don't believe you.
It’s not ideal for sure, but it seems like WotC has to officially have the final say (even if they don’t use that power) so they can take responsibility, and take on any toxic blowback. If the community panel had final say, then we could get a repeat of what just happened. I think that’s something we need to avoid above all. Hopefully they don’t abuse that power
Wotc let the community run it this long and we ended up where we are now. The community behaved like children and the parents had to step in
I do agree with you BTW 😅
“The Community” did nothing wrong.
An extremely vocal minority of deranged man-children/woman-children acted out because they made some fiscally unsound decisions.
It’s insulting to every player who had nothing to do with the harassment/death threats to bundle them in with the splinter of the player-pool who acted out.
The CFP are contractually bound to Shill for Daddy Hasbro, and given how Gavin has frequently fallen silent during moments of MtG/WotC being criticized by content-creators of shows he appears on, there is reason to at least suspect *he* is contractually bound in a similar manner.
More than that, the CFP are nothing but a new CAG. It’s smoke and mirrors meant to draw the eyes of less-informed MtG consumers away from all those driven-by-nothing-but-profit-decisions WotC/Hasbro is going to make.
Frankly, I don’t believe Gavin is a bad man, but he IS a Company Man. His allegiance is to the company, and not at all to this community anywhere that his loyalty to said corp would be contravened.
@@darriuscaldwell4305Parents? No. Greedy and petulant children forced good people out with death threats and left it in the hands of an atrocious, greedy, and short-sighted corporation.
@@darriuscaldwell4305it's the difference between a parent that wants you to do well so they can retire and live off you and a parent that actual cares about your well being. I'll let everyone decide which is which
Problem with Wizards and Gavin, is that the MTG "Community" is just top content creators and MTG judges. Non of these people are actually in touch with the MTG communities.
What would you know about community virgin?
So true, wotc getting free publicity from the cool celebrity in-crowd
your absolutely right, its been a long time since they where in touch.........
Not really. There is a reason why those content creators are popular. Also, what exactly "being in touch with MTG communities" mean and how it can be even measured? Yeah, exactly there is no such thing. MTG experience may vary completely based on hundred different factors. For me and many other people majority of creators/players from western world could be considered "out of touch" because of MTG products prices...
I think they are the best people to rule on it honestly. They live and breath mtg. They play it for a job.
Influencer: The Gathering. I don't know why I expected more.
What would be the alternative? Welcome Greg from some random LGS in Norddakota to the panel? It makes sense, Influencers have all their own community and can gather feedback that way
The people with large community reach are the people with the beat way to gauge community feedback and gather data about community sentiment and deck composition
@@WeirdPhilosophy It makes sense especially for a "community centered format"
What did you expect then?
what did you expect?, this is a community who worship these broken cards and believes they should be untouchable by the banlist because money, they got so mad cause big money cards got banned they literally sent the RC threats and now we're here. MTG is basically becoming less and less a card game and more and more an excuse to line the pockets of greedy investors who don't understand that these are game pieces and see them more as baseball cards and ways to line pockets. the entire MTG community is run like the Orzhov Syndicate, greed, greed and greed are all that drive this community now and the card game is an afterthought.
just look what happened to the RC, people weren't mad because they genuinely believed these cards were fair and balanced and didn't deserve the bans they got.
so to prevent anyone sitting through a wall of text for 30 minutes: the crp is a courtesy not a contingency...
It's really not as deep as people are making it out to be. Wotc is the new RC and the CAG / RC are the new CAG / CFP.
Semi-annual Zoom meetings streamed on Twitch with the full CFP discussing the state of the format would be cool.
Happy to see a Brazilian member in the CFP after everything WOTC does to have a negative impact on our country. Congrats to Deco
They did say jeweled lotus was a mistake followed up by saying some of magics mistakes are peoples favortite cards to play with. If the new rules group deems they should be unbanned then why shouldn't they? more restrictions only hinder players. Teach them to have proper rule 0 conversations and play what you want. The format being "too fast" is not a problem its just now how SOME people want to play.
Fox guarding the hen house is the phrase
Robber stamping is a neat thing
In all honesty, I strongly disagree with the inclusion of JLK. I want strong voices of dissent, and I am not confident HE will push back against WotC decisions.
Ultimately, I just don't trust any of Gavin Verhey's bosses, since any of em can just force an anti-player or anti-gameplay decision onto commander in pursuit of immediate profits :/
Idk I’m surprised he was put on the committee to begin with, considering how outspoken he is against some of wotc decisions
He wont be so outspoken any more
I think he’s been pretty fair of his criticism good and bad, and him leaving the CAG was actually quite the statement….i am sorta surprised and a bit disappointed he signed that agreement to not criticize them for that reason.
@@thekurtrussell4007the goal is to get the most outspoken people so that wotc csn shut them up with the non-disparagement clause. Its a pity they didnt manage to snare the professor in this
@@gabrielsoo2939 like honestly if they don’t take the input and they do what a lot of people fear they would do this new committee could just quit and start their own new RC. I’m not too concerned
I see, I see... so we'll be sticking with the plan A of "ignore everything they say".
Is that what the article said? Do you have reading/hearing comprehension issues? No hate if so, but you’re making massive assumptions. Chill a bit.
@@travisauruss If so or not, ironic the first thing you question if they had reading/comphehension issues because wow, the f*cking irony.
I guarantee wizards is gonna use this rotating panel to stack the panel with people that support them. I wouldn't be surprised if a year from now the entire old rc is completely replaced
😱😱😱😱😱😱
Sorry, Just saw this video was uploaded, and seeing the title, that was my first reaction. 😱😱😱😱
It wasn't some. It was a lot of the community got upset over the last banning. It's been over half of all the players at the 6 local game stores I play at.
Wotc can't manage their own formats such as modern or standard, example look at both formats over the last couple years.
Why should i even be remotely interested in listening to their suggestions for my commander games at my lgs.
Why any different than the RC? They were beyond useless for years.
1) Wizards owns the product, they have and always will do what they want with it, everyone else involved has been and (most likely) always will be advisory only. 2) The ONLY reason why this hit everyone like a storm and RC went back to WOTC is because of the deplorable actions by the, albeit very small portion, of the community, which is inexcusable. Happy with the people in the new group. 3) I personally would prefer MTG as a whole not be focused so much on the secondary market, it's annoying that there's a pay to play component to the game to get access to better cards, especially for paying $10+ for ONE decent land card. Yes, I know you can have a decent budget deck, but lets be honest, the good ones cost more. I COULD do proxies, but I'd rather support the game instead of "borrowing" from it.
Just typing a comment early enough for mitch to see. Hi! Loved your videos since you started. Tysm for improving your content. i love coming back to magic and seeing your channel having grown so much.
Great to see Bandit on the Panel! Le meilleur 🙌
❤
Was pleasantly surprised to see him included. I listened to his videos a lot while studying French for work
Really hyped for this and the changes to come, so much better in every aspect to the old RC.
I again feel a supervised (as in the type of model) machine learning model combined with the labeled data from the thousands of decks the PlayEDH discord group has, overall, successfully rated into 4 categories would be perfect for power bracket assignment (or at least to identify key cards for each level). EDHRec also already has the data likely formatted in a way that would work with little changes if you cross reference links to decks with ones from the discord. I barely know what I'm even doing with machine learning model design and even I think I could still create something partially functional fairly easily with everything that's already available from these groups.
Neat
That's what I was saying! If you're having trouble calculating synergy then pull from edhrec! If your deck has like half the cards recommended for a top tier deck with X commander then yeah that'll affect your bracket FAR more than a single tutor. They just gotta cross-reference in a neat little website where u punch your deck in and it'll spit out your bracket.
Are you looking to Commmander being a format where you can't bring any type of deck you want, and have an honest chance of winning?
Make Commander Great Again! ♥
Play EDH.
Lol a bunch of content creators who started playing magic less than 4 years ago. Sick, another cool kids club, I'll stick to my 1v1 formats. You clowns can keep your circus. Like isn't that power dragon guy a standard arena streamer? Like wtf does he have to do with commander?
Not a bad selection for the group, but let us remember that in the end the call on what to ban or un ban or to do nothing is entirely on WOTC , and they arenot going to do anything that hurts the bottom line.
You say it's not going to affect casual commander tables and playgroups. Have you considered that people might decide to curate their playgroup around the level that they enjoy to play at? This enables Quicker rule 0 conversations
Honestly isn’t the focus on power level like a biggest mistake? I mean we used to be fine without it and now some one thought it’s a great idea to give us a crutch to rely on.
Makes me 100% happy the dequan is on this committee.
So how much for their souls and eternal serviture?
If any of these people signed that lifetime NDA then I can't listen to anything they have to say. Especially someone like Josh Lee Kwai, who has always been very outspoken. Him signing something like that would seem almost hypocritical.
I’m a little confused as to why people are surprised large content creators were selected for the panel. Who else would they have join? Just some random guy wotc chooses in MTG Arena?
And why have a panel when the final decition will be from WotC?
@@martinksk88 well, the panel’s there for recommendations and opinions FOR wizards, no? I assume especially when it comes to printed cards on the design team for commander oriented stuff so we can avoid more jeweled lotuses and docksides
Olivia was on the RC not the CAG, so glad she's part of the new panel, still annoyed a bunch of rich aholes forced this to happen over a banning that should have happened a while ago
I'm trying to stay optimistic, but I'm really nervous and scared the bracket system makes me scared, and the NDC makes me very weary of the new RC
Why 17 members? Maybe they issued more invitations and these were the only people who agreed to join.
I really wish we could see Michael Lynch, the Prof or best of all Larry on the rules panel. These are all people who have a deep love, commitment, and understanding of Commander.
But on the other hand having an odd number of panel members does mean that you can come to a majority decision easier than having an even number of members.
The Prof would never sign a contract requiring him to never criticize Wizards of the Coast. He does review videos, so he has to have that ability.
New rules committee basics are: you can never criticize Wizards, and Wizards is free to ignore anything the RC says. It is designed to be worthless.
The prof has been very outspoken when criticizing WOTC. No way they'd give him a job.
@@leox.jaramillo3231 He wouldn't accept anyways. He would never be silenced.
I feel like to the average person it's going to be the same because the old group got to make the final call. Wizards heaven the final call isn't much different.
Also, the nadu doesn't make sense to me either since krark and sakashima exist , which is the exact same play pattern but worse cause it's on every turn
I see some people in the comments state that the new RC can't speak negatively via a contract?
Could somebody please provide a timestamp? I was unable to see where this was mentioned.
That’s in a previous video
Very cool. Still going to ignore everything they say and play the cards I want. RULE ZERO IS ABOVE ALL!!!
Just my opinion, they should make a "class" of decks. Tournament class of deck, a casual home brew, and a unmodified pre-con. Something like that
I feel that the small group that did the death threats were less players and more investors in commander specific cards and MTG cards in general. I only have about 2k in MTG. (so NOTHING in the MTG investor scope, just a dozen mid power commander decks). But Hasbro has to placate their shareholders. .. .. ..... ........ (it needs to look like it has value even if it is just cardboard)
Agree, and in the end the investor types death threats worked. now with wizards running the show they will never have to worry about their investment portfolio loosing value, they won and the commander community the actual players we lost big.
@@azarite7932 Here's the thing though. As I've always said, the game is only valuable as long as it's being played. If no one is playing the game, the cards are worthless. Who would the investors be able to sell their cards to then? Each other? The game players have always been more important than the investors and maybe it's time to show Hasbro that.
@@Arctanis-vt3hl agree. The investors and wizards just look at the money they don't think about what happens if we move on because that's never happened before. I doubt people will ever really stop buying products and even if they did the whales in the investor scene mean the game could float along for a long time on just them. Wizards will chase the money and the money won this. Hopefully we all get smart though and ignore their format and continue on with our own that's the best case here.
But.... Lua has an OF....
really puts into perspective the type of person that wizards went with for this panel.
As someone with multiple 5 color decks im praying they DONT unban Coalition Victory. Cards not fun or good for the format. It being legal means if i sit down with a 5 color decks people are gonna start just assuming im playing free win cards.
Much like turbo biorythim decks.
At this point, I am only playing MTG Arena because paper is 1.) Expensive 2.) A roulette wheel on what stays legal. Digital magic like Arena and TTS seems to avoid the drama.
They had one ban in like 4 years. Stop being dramatic
The major problem with all formats mainly there cash cow commander is the influx of so much products its like a new set coming out every 2 months
Expect to see chase card bans only after the chase cards sell out a product.
Not anyone who loves the game’s fault, just how corporations work. Don’t believe me? Look at the gaming industry.
So, since JLK and Rachel signed on to never criticise WotC again, command zone will only be telling us that every card is amazing, we should buy more and to trust WotC huh?
I just don't think biorhythm should come off the Ban list.
One card may be 4 and the rest might be 2? I know that's oversimplifying things but good chance my decks will be like that.
The RC got to make the final choice and it shows when they decided on the recent bans without consulting the other group so what the RC said goes. It's no different. It's trading one tyrant for another. 😂
I am making a New Format in my pods. Similar to EDH format but no Universal and Beyond cards allowed. Example is that if the card text came from UB card then its banned. UB SETS are Transformers card,Godzella cards,DR Who,LOTR,Marval etc u get the point cards. I dont mean the art I mean the text aka game mechanic of what the card does. Example Moth Man from fallout with Rad Counters bs its banned in my pods.. Even if they made the card a Magic the gathering art and name its still originally from the Moth man soo its banned. Now People wonder what about when they make the new marval cards is the commander plate legal in my pod yes. Because its still commanders plate not op bs.
I think we're still going to have to worry about it cuz wizards may have it but the one who is ultimately going to make that decision is going to be Hasbro. If they see cards that can eventually make them more money that's banned they'll tell him to unband it throw it in a set that way they can make more money. I'm hoping it doesn't happen but with but the way wizards is pumping out products left or not because of Hasbro that makes me worried.
Lol, "gave". The fact that people that care about the EDH format and community signed that contract that does not let them speak their mind about WotC and the choices they make is terrible. The panel is there to make it look like WotC cares about the community. Papa Hasbro only cares about the $$$ and how they can monitize the EDH community even more .
You made me laugh, its just a basic response and smothered by hate, its very short sighted of you.
If the "don't complain clause" exists then I don't see how the crp is even remotely useful for the community. They might just as well appoint some WoTC employ to write the format updates every so often and be done with it.
Can we get a deck list for that Jhoira artifact work deck?!
Yep!
Here is the deck list: tcgplayer.pxf.io/4PBOnM
And for context, here is the episode where I talk about why I don't play it anymore: th-cam.com/video/3msybxqxI7U/w-d-xo.html
Again. Id like to propose a new format "Legacy Commander". All the same rules as Commander, same ban list as what the RC set and only set up to duskmourn are legal.
Mitch: "My Jhoira deck uses no card with power-level higher than 1..."
What about Jhoira Mitch? she is a 4 by herself lol
I am beginning to doubt your opinion. Manacrypt is bad, but you think hullbreacher is fine to unban? I really can't follow your logic.
Take in consideration….i.e. you signed that NDA right? 🤦🏻♂️🤣
I can totally see where sone of the fear comes from, between these people basically working for Wizards, and the contract bit that restricts them from EVER talking against the company. I do tend to be a more pessimistic, money-pushed person, and we do know that Hasbro, till all are one, has, and will continue to, squeeze WotC for simple profit, especially as other of their under-the-umbrella assets continue to flounder, but I'm hoping to see at least some good from this. Withe the new panel being a legit part of Wizards, they might get an even better window to seeing future cards. Wizards doesn't tend to theorize, design, and produce a product in weeks, or even months, but a couple of years, so perhaps the panel will be more involved even in the brainstorming phase, and be able to better voice their opinions internally before more resources have already been spent, and designer hopes raised. Honestly, it would be nice if those designers had already noticed a product was iffy, like Nadu, Hogaak, or other "how was this ever play-tested?" cards, but if other people with a better finger on the pulse of the community can now see into it sooner, maybe it will work, at least some of the time.
I'm iffy on brackets, but it's mostly because player opinions will always be so diverse. To be fair to Wizards, it's not like the community ever had a better, or more standard, "rating system" for decks. What was a PL 7, again? Who decided? What factors? In a handful of ways, cards aren't powerful; how they interact, when they ideally go off, is powerful. Different people will have different opinions. If we watch videos here, salt comes from things like Eminence, tax breaks, or land destruction, but other players might not think that "a free leyline" is that much more powerful (4), or that it's fair Green gets to ramp as a color identity element, but popping them is "frowned upon", so Wizards is going to have to try pretty hard to make a system that does anything, when the active community never did, and EDH kept working. Will also be interesting to see if some app, or site, designed to moderate these decks wi become a paid service, or require a membership, like D&D Beyond?
Personally, I'm less worried. The way I see it, Wizards control over Commander is still kind of unofficial. For literally years, people have been playing this format in their homes, and LGSs, wirh no real oversight from the corporate overlords. If WotC, or Hasbro, make particularly ugly decisions, there's only really so far their decisions can reach. If I don't like something in the new D&D format, I can elect to ignore it, and I think Wizards will find that the same is true here. They'll obviously want to make fat stacks, as Hasbro will press, but if they want to maintain sway over the community, they'll need to be a bit more light touch, or else the panel will just be ignored, and people will just continue to play "classic Commander" locally, without worrying what the big bad company says. It will go back to unofficially policing itself, e en if in a less unified way, and Wizards knows that, so I think they'll try to do what we want more, at least at first, maybe until a certain amount of the play base rotates out, and fewer will have the first person experience of how the game is, or was.
"Community driven but Wizards has absolute power" mmmhmmmm. They're full of it.
After Pinkerton, I don't trust a single word Wizard says.
My question is why is Lua Stardust on this list?
Probably as their “cEDH representative”. Pretty obvious she had been vying for it ever since the RC crumbled. Breasts are very powerful as well.
There's a certain level of forethought you need to fall below to sign whatever toxic positivity clause they gave for being on the RC. I'm guessing it was for fame and exposure, or to tick a box on WotC's end.
@@MekanikKommandoh88 She has an Only Fans account...
@@JakesFavorites this ^. it just points out what a joke this is from the start.
Its just going to be a bunch of "yes men" thats gonna do whatever WotC wishes either way
Total price of deck (using least expensive versions of the cards) divided by 10 equals power level of the deck. Simple.
It's a good start
So we are just making up stats that don't mean anything now. Awesome.
I mean, the community never had input on the Commander Rules Committee. So it was a community driven format where no one in the community ever had any direct impact on the format. So is it worse that Wizards makes the call or like 5 of Sheldon's friends make the call? Clearly they didn't take anyone's feedback into account. Not even their own members. Good riddance.
I love Magic. I have loved magic since I was 11 and Mirrodin was just coming out. I love Magic still. I think it is the best tcg ever made. I don’t know why it is so hated in every comment section I come across.
Formats are hated. The overall game isn't .
Big Dif between Pauper and Commander; Pauper cards are cheaper and pauper is played by a relatively small number of mostly thoughtful unhipster types. Commander cards are expensive and commander is played by the internet, using decks designed by the internet, using cards pushed by the internet. The internet will do its thing, I fear.
I'm losing a little enthusiasm for what this bracket system is. If it's optional they shouldn't unban anything. Some people don't see commander as a social format.
I will allow myself to be naïve enough this time, and believe that the RC will be the ones actually making the decisions, and Wotc won't enforce their power.
That said, the only true rule in Commander is Rule Zero.
If I want to use a Charizard as my Commander in my dragon tribal deck, and my group is ok with it, no one will be able to stop me from doing that.
"And my group is okay with it" is the problem. Rule zero is dumb. The banlist was fine as is, because people weren't allowed to play stupid stuff like my little pony and other "UN" cards that aren't part of magic.
Why not just put certain commanders on the point system look at the most saltiest and op ones and put points on them?
I love jeweled lotus and mana crypt for edh, love the play style and never had a problem with them across the table. I hope they unban them 😊
I hope they don't.
tbh this is still a bad idea.for example my ur dragon loses to my friends anabella broken doll deck everytime. one is a 4 one is a 2... this does not work because it is about how fast can this ramp versus this being able to kill a table on turn 5 which dragons can never do
im not understanding all the miss truce ? I understand making a profit but its a game we have the power to buy or not. I don't believe they are the bad guys and its our game its their company and always been.
Wizards having the final call on things protects the panel. if you don't like something... take it up with wotc and leave the panel alone.
The members who got the harassment in the first place WERE ALSO employees. They got flak specifically because they were insiders who were paid to promote Magic, who having inside info knowingly screwed over everyone who bought a box in the last year.
And you can bet the ban didn't go over well with WotC either. So much refunds, so many angry calls from WPN shop owners, everyone involved being blamed for a multi-million rug pull. Complete loss of consumer confidence in Hasbro's biggest brand. All because Olivia from Marketing banned all the chase cards they were relying on to justify $140 for normal boxes.
You can bet Karen from Customer Service is gonna tell Olivia "I know what car you drive." In fact I'd say most of the credible threats were from other employees for these reasons.
I could care less about them and you all are right.
So long as wizard's is driving the bus, I am getting off. Rule 0 September 1st and September 28th Ban Lists for thoes who want no Dockside ect. & Beyond that Rule 0 talks around.
I bet they’ll never reveal the contract
Hope the banlist gets smaller.
Everyone's a little doom and gloom, eh? Reading through this really didn't sound bad at all... let's all chill the fuck out and see what comes of it.
Gaving Verhey is the guy who designed all the power crept cards that have ruined the format. He will lead the format straight into dockside/jeweled lotus hell
Im glad that im leaving commander in the new year for gundam TCG. I quit commander early this month. So i am sorting stuff.
Jim isnt on nrw panel?
Oh goodie the new sellouts are here. Good to know Wizards new mouthpieces and scapegoats have the games best intentions at heart. I just know they'll be honest
What a bunch of content creators that are pro wizards are on the panel I’m shock!/s. Also wizards saying they’ll make the final choice so this panel of “experts” is all pointless lol
For those not paying attention, remember why JLK quit the advisory group because of all this b.s. well sounds to me like he knew what was gonna happen before anyone this started and then did what he did and made up excuses, just like someone else that works with him, both lied and are now on the new rules committee deal, all they are, are yes people and know more than they are saying to the public, sounds like insider trading to me, I'm just saying, pay attention to the attention seekers!!
The Rc is just a double sided mirror