I confess to being unable to fly anything more difficult than a paper aeroplane but this channel is addictive. The vid quality is becoming more sophisticated as well. Always look forward to a new release.
Lithium batteries seem to be a recurrent problem in air transport . In fact the battery packs of the initial B787s were a cause of 2 fires (ANA and Ethiopian ) fortunately on the ground .
@@chipsawdust5816Not on passenger flights. Sending as cargo is certainly prohibited, but when it comes to passenger flights there’s a lot of those batteries onboard.
@@thegreyarea-WPP In overhead bins only, so they are accessible to the crew. Not as cargo, but as carry-ons. Since this was a cargo flight that's all I was talking about.
@ Ah, ok. Sorry, I just took it to mean all flights from your message. The reason I mentioned it on passenger flights is that many people board with laptops and use them during flights and then there’s pretty much every phone in the world and I thought you literally meant all flights. This is what confuses me when it comes to the cargo flights. Why can’t there be a partition or a cargo container that can regulate pressure and temperature for the safest optimums for transporting lithium ion batteries? It is a nightmare trying to find a way to ship a phone across the Atlantic without it taking months or flying out myself.
@@thegreyarea-WPP First paragraph - no worries! Comments are like anything written, you never know what the other person is really thinking. I could've been more clear. Lithium-ion batteries can catch fire due to a phenomenon called "thermal runaway," which occurs when a battery overheats and releases energy uncontrollably, potentially leading to explosions. This overheating can be caused by factors such as manufacturing defects, physical damage, overcharging, or exposure to high temperatures. Ever seen one of those videos of a Tesla on fire? They can't even put it out with foam. There was one famous person who drive their Tesla off a dock, and it was on fire underwater! So there's nothing you can put on an airplane to contain that kind of energy. At least a cargo ship could, theoretically, dump it overboard and not lose the ship.
I used to have a great book as a kid called "the black box" it was basically full of the last conversations from the cockpit. Yeah, I was fascinated by that sort of thing, saved my bacon a few times.
@@MrStian78haha, yeah, a little, but from the point of human performance and CRM, that little book taught me more about human behaviour than anything else.
@@Curious-Mindsif it’s any consolation I used to read my late stepdads books about autopsies, he was a coroner (medical examiner) but had left the job after the Piper Alpha Disaster, caused him PTSD and he struggled trying to do the job after. He loved that I would sit and read his old books like “ooooh, so that’s how you get the organs out, huh, cool”. I was a strange child but my curiosity was always encouraged, even if it was weird!
I don’t think I’d heard about this particular fire either. Brilliantly done, your videos are always a pleasure to watch. You’re right up there with the best aviation channels on TH-cam and it seems not to have taken you very long to achieve this.
Condolences to the families and friends. Thank you 🙏 Sir for sharing this horrific accident. May the rip Amen 🙏. Batteries are a problem. I wander if have sprinkles installed will help. Rip Amen 🙏. Hi from Temple Terrace Florida. 🇺🇸🇵🇷🇺🇸🇵🇷🙏✈️.
It is now prohibited to transport lithium batteries via air cargo. Sprinklers would require a very heavy supply of water, as well, which would not quench a battery fire.
This really reminds me of Helderberg disaster also is it coincidental both happened on 28th😂😂😂😂 this happened 28th July of 2011 Helderberg happen 28th November 1987
I was about to bring this up. I know there’s a huge amount of controversy over what the cargo may have been, but the very first thing that investors dismissed was computer batteries. This was a year after lithium batteries came into use and those computer batteries had me believing that such a theory was ignored because it was unknown of batteries doing this at the time and little to nothing was known about them. Comparing that flight with the UPS crash and the Asiana crash, they’re strikingly similar in all details, with the exception that the Helderberg disaster was a combi 747. For years people have been claiming it was carrying weapons and missiles. That may or may not be the case, but I have held to the belief that the battery theory should have been reviewed thoroughly rather than ruled out in each investigation.
Ditching in the ocean in a 747 - or almost any airplane - is about as last gasp as having a fire onboard. Very little chance of survival. In a large lake or a river (a la Sully) the water is more calm and the possibilities increase. But the ocean is rarely calm (especially when you need it to be).
During daylight hours up to 12000 is OK. At night, 10000. But to keep a fire from burning (that is, if it doesn't have its own oxygen), 25000 or even higher means far less ambient oxygen is available to sustain a flame.
@@chipsawdust5816for humans 25,000 is just below the 8 km “death zone”, the threshold for sustained survival though would normally need supplemental oxygen if they hadn’t acclimatised.
@@chipsawdust5816 agreed. Sorry I meant that as a comment that 25000 was barely compatible with life under any circumstances, I wasn’t suggesting you should fly a plane there without supplemental o2.
@@Henipah Well you are correct :) 25,000 feet is only survivable by those who live at this altitudes, like Everest sherpas! Thanks for commenting back.
Lithium batteries are prohibited in air cargo now. You can carry them in an overhead bin or your pocket on a passenger plane, but otherwise they have to go by ground transport or oceangoing ship.
Very sad account this. These batteries, lithium or otherwise, seem to ignite spontaneously. Terrible tragedy this. Thank you for recounting it. Memorable episode.
@@cefarix Which is annoying for people like me who operate on metric. It still amazes me that the aviation industry of all industries still uses caveman units.
Depends how big the batteries are. Ship fire suppression systems are also not designed for lithium battery fires. They can handle a pallet or two of cell phone batteries going up but nothing bigger than that.
This is NOT a Boeing 747-400,,, please get your facts in order and if you don’t know what the proper model this Boeing is,, please don’t be giving the improper model description and I will correct you on exactly what model this Boeing is,, it’s NOT a 747-400,,,,, get it right and it’s a 747-400 F.
An aircraft on fire is not really the time to go through the checklists but, specially over the ocean, get ready to ditch the aircraft immediately after visual inspection of the aircraft cargo compartment. Furthermore, lithium batteries should be banned from aircraft transportation and ban from use on mobile phones. Ditch the aircraft, do not wait for death to arrive. Airline manufacturers do not really care about the safety of their products, they just money. Read about the Ford Pinto design fault and how the manufacturer intentionally took the risk of killing people and no one did much about making Ford responsible for their actions.
I do not understand why you need "23 serious problems related to lithium batteries", 2 crashes and deaths before banning the transportation of these inflammable products ? Sad.
By the time e they got a fir alert incargo the smoke in them bad they should hagecreoeased fir bottles if they have them in cargo area if there not there should be sprinklers in cargo area forget references on check lists shut unnecessary electric put in mayday mayday mayday cargo should have to be in metal crates and not be fastened to each other thed been better to cut any cockpit electrics they cou,d manage without
That's a good thing there safer shipped in I will always make sure I've batteries in at all times cos obviously supplies take longer but I'm glad thece all seen sense @@barbaramonaco105
Idiots. They knew their cargo and it was on fire. Their only chance was to ditch before control was lost. Dicking around with check lists when they needed to position for ditching. Too little, too late in a very limited time window. This outcome was predictable. Had they ditched 10 minutes sooner they may have survived. At least a chance of survival. Rest in Peace
Go on… 🤔 You obviously must be a commercial airline pilot who is knowledgeable in ditching several tons of metal and hazardous chemicals. Please, take time from you airline pilot day job and share more of your knowledge.
Rude comment. A similar situation is what took down Swiss Air 111 - the pilots had a crazy-long emergency checklist and it's part of what caused them to crash.
@@CuriousPilot90Does the back research - nice! But I only watch your videos specifically so I can correct your pronunciation and not because of the great aviation stories and professional presentation you provide. 😂😂 😉👍
An in-flight fire is the absolute worst situation any pilot can be put in... too many of these accidents end in the same way... it's so heartbreaking.
It is especially tragic when the closest airport is nowhere in range.
@@dheyes803
This is such a forgotten disaster thanks for the video
I confess to being unable to fly anything more difficult than a paper aeroplane but this channel is addictive. The vid quality is becoming more sophisticated as well. Always look forward to a new release.
Another great video. I love your videos and your explanation of the accidents. Keep up the great work 👍
Thank you!
Lithium batteries seem to be a recurrent problem in air transport . In fact the battery packs of the initial B787s were a cause of 2 fires (ANA and Ethiopian ) fortunately on the ground .
Not any more. It is prohibited to transport them by aircraft anymore.
@@chipsawdust5816Not on passenger flights. Sending as cargo is certainly prohibited, but when it comes to passenger flights there’s a lot of those batteries onboard.
@@thegreyarea-WPP In overhead bins only, so they are accessible to the crew. Not as cargo, but as carry-ons. Since this was a cargo flight that's all I was talking about.
@ Ah, ok. Sorry, I just took it to mean all flights from your message. The reason I mentioned it on passenger flights is that many people board with laptops and use them during flights and then there’s pretty much every phone in the world and I thought you literally meant all flights.
This is what confuses me when it comes to the cargo flights. Why can’t there be a partition or a cargo container that can regulate pressure and temperature for the safest optimums for transporting lithium ion batteries? It is a nightmare trying to find a way to ship a phone across the Atlantic without it taking months or flying out myself.
@@thegreyarea-WPP First paragraph - no worries! Comments are like anything written, you never know what the other person is really thinking. I could've been more clear.
Lithium-ion batteries can catch fire due to a phenomenon called "thermal runaway," which occurs when a battery overheats and releases energy uncontrollably, potentially leading to explosions. This overheating can be caused by factors such as manufacturing defects, physical damage, overcharging, or exposure to high temperatures. Ever seen one of those videos of a Tesla on fire? They can't even put it out with foam. There was one famous person who drive their Tesla off a dock, and it was on fire underwater! So there's nothing you can put on an airplane to contain that kind of energy. At least a cargo ship could, theoretically, dump it overboard and not lose the ship.
I used to have a great book as a kid called "the black box" it was basically full of the last conversations from the cockpit.
Yeah, I was fascinated by that sort of thing, saved my bacon a few times.
Weird 😂
@@MrStian78haha, yeah, a little, but from the point of human performance and CRM, that little book taught me more about human behaviour than anything else.
@@Curious-Mindsif it’s any consolation I used to read my late stepdads books about autopsies, he was a coroner (medical examiner) but had left the job after the Piper Alpha Disaster, caused him PTSD and he struggled trying to do the job after. He loved that I would sit and read his old books like “ooooh, so that’s how you get the organs out, huh, cool”. I was a strange child but my curiosity was always encouraged, even if it was weird!
I don’t think I’d heard about this particular fire either. Brilliantly done, your videos are always a pleasure to watch. You’re right up there with the best aviation channels on TH-cam and it seems not to have taken you very long to achieve this.
Great analysis and explanation of this tragic event.👍
Thank you for the new video.
Reupload
@@MrStian78And?...it may have been new to them. Let's not yuck other people's yum!
Condolences to the families and friends. Thank you 🙏 Sir for sharing this horrific accident. May the rip Amen 🙏. Batteries are a problem. I wander if have sprinkles installed will help. Rip Amen 🙏. Hi from Temple Terrace Florida. 🇺🇸🇵🇷🇺🇸🇵🇷🙏✈️.
It is now prohibited to transport lithium batteries via air cargo. Sprinklers would require a very heavy supply of water, as well, which would not quench a battery fire.
Heartbreaking
This really reminds me of Helderberg disaster also is it coincidental both happened on 28th😂😂😂😂 this happened 28th July of 2011 Helderberg happen 28th November 1987
I was about to bring this up. I know there’s a huge amount of controversy over what the cargo may have been, but the very first thing that investors dismissed was computer batteries. This was a year after lithium batteries came into use and those computer batteries had me believing that such a theory was ignored because it was unknown of batteries doing this at the time and little to nothing was known about them. Comparing that flight with the UPS crash and the Asiana crash, they’re strikingly similar in all details, with the exception that the Helderberg disaster was a combi 747. For years people have been claiming it was carrying weapons and missiles. That may or may not be the case, but I have held to the belief that the battery theory should have been reviewed thoroughly rather than ruled out in each investigation.
HOW SAD
~Some say the world will end in fire,
Some say in ice.~
Either one makes for a very bad day in an airplane.
Are you gonna make more Ghost T3con videos or gaming videos in general?
"...a fire had broke out..." Nope.
It did break out. It broke out. It had broken out.
In hindsight should they have done an emergency descent and ditched in the ocean asap?
Ditching in the ocean in a 747 - or almost any airplane - is about as last gasp as having a fire onboard. Very little chance of survival. In a large lake or a river (a la Sully) the water is more calm and the possibilities increase. But the ocean is rarely calm (especially when you need it to be).
Idk if you do requests or not, but you should do FedEx 705.
From what I know 10.000 feet is safe hight to avoid hypoxia but I may be wrong. Thaks for the video.
During daylight hours up to 12000 is OK. At night, 10000. But to keep a fire from burning (that is, if it doesn't have its own oxygen), 25000 or even higher means far less ambient oxygen is available to sustain a flame.
@@chipsawdust5816for humans 25,000 is just below the 8 km “death zone”, the threshold for sustained survival though would normally need supplemental oxygen if they hadn’t acclimatised.
@@Henipah There are rules in aviation about oxygen use. These are pilots sitting in a seat, not conditioned mountaineers crawling up Everest.
@@chipsawdust5816 agreed. Sorry I meant that as a comment that 25000 was barely compatible with life under any circumstances, I wasn’t suggesting you should fly a plane there without supplemental o2.
@@Henipah Well you are correct :) 25,000 feet is only survivable by those who live at this altitudes, like Everest sherpas!
Thanks for commenting back.
I wonder if dangerous goods areas that can be opened in flight to ditch any goods on fires could be a solution
Yeah, and dump them over your house or how do you imagine that to work?
@@Cl4rendon They were over the ocean.
Lithium batteries are prohibited in air cargo now. You can carry them in an overhead bin or your pocket on a passenger plane, but otherwise they have to go by ground transport or oceangoing ship.
@@chipsawdust5816 oh…. Well that changes everything, when planes fly solely over oceans 🤦
@@Cl4rendon Oh you mean the worldwide fleet? I'm sorry, I thought we were discussing this video.
👍🏼
7:19 a few minutes later?? maintain 10.000?
Edit: ok they were over the ocean which makes sense why they didnt instantly land I guess
Very sad account this. These batteries, lithium or otherwise, seem to ignite spontaneously. Terrible tragedy this. Thank you for recounting it. Memorable episode.
btw, 71 noticle miles are 131.5 km, I have no idea why you choose the wrong units
Airplanes and ships typically use nautical miles.
@@cefarix Which is annoying for people like me who operate on metric. It still amazes me that the aviation industry of all industries still uses caveman units.
제주 (Jeju) doesn't have a zhe sound; it's pronounced closer to Jeh-joo, and Incheon is INcheon, not Icheon :)
Thank you for that VERY important piece of
information. It completely alters our understanding of the situation....
Thank you for that VERY important piece of
information..
@2msvalkyrie529 aren't you pleasant 😀
Wouldn't it be smarter and safer to transport batteries by ship instead of by plane?
Since 2016 lithium batteries are not permitted in cargo hold. This horrible accident is one of the reasons why.😢
Depends how big the batteries are. Ship fire suppression systems are also not designed for lithium battery fires. They can handle a pallet or two of cell phone batteries going up but nothing bigger than that.
Didn't anybody think to go look and see how bad fire was
All fires are bad Mr .!! ( quote ) Steve McQueen
Rhooooom !!!
why show a pax 747-400 when this was a cargo aircraft?
This is NOT a Boeing 747-400,,, please get your facts in order and if you don’t know what the proper model this Boeing is,, please don’t be giving the improper model description and I will correct you on exactly what model this Boeing is,, it’s NOT a 747-400,,,,, get it right and it’s a 747-400 F.
An aircraft on fire is not really the time to go through the checklists but, specially over the ocean, get ready to ditch the aircraft immediately after visual inspection of the aircraft cargo compartment. Furthermore, lithium batteries should be banned from aircraft transportation and ban from use on mobile phones. Ditch the aircraft, do not wait for death to arrive. Airline manufacturers do not really care about the safety of their products, they just money. Read about the Ford Pinto design fault and how the manufacturer intentionally took the risk of killing people and no one did much about making Ford responsible for their actions.
Thanks for your made up policy😂
I do not understand why you need "23 serious problems related to lithium batteries", 2 crashes and deaths before banning the transportation of these inflammable products ? Sad.
By the time e they got a fir alert incargo the smoke in them bad they should hagecreoeased fir bottles if they have them in cargo area if there not there should be sprinklers in cargo area forget references on check lists shut unnecessary electric put in mayday mayday mayday cargo should have to be in metal crates and not be fastened to each other thed been better to cut any cockpit electrics they cou,d manage without
Why reupload?
Because why not 😂😂
@@rohitsingh-cs6jj hmm
Why not? I missed it the last time, so it's new to me.
@@barbaramonaco105 same, I'm just want to know why
Lithium batteries should have to ge in a heat secure metal box with a fire sensor in box so if it over heats box floods
They are no longer permitted as airline cargo.
That's a good thing there safer shipped in I will always make sure I've batteries in at all times cos obviously supplies take longer but I'm glad thece all seen sense @@barbaramonaco105
could they have decompressed the cargo area to suck the air out thereby starving the fire out?
No
U
No. The 747's pressurization system isn't that sophisticated. You can't pressurize and de-pressurize sections of the plane at will.
You can depressurise the whole aircraft, it makes a marginal difference. The crew were on oxygen.
Idiots. They knew their cargo and it was on fire. Their only chance was to ditch before control was lost. Dicking around with check lists when they needed to position for ditching. Too little, too late in a very limited time window. This outcome was predictable. Had they ditched 10 minutes sooner they may have survived. At least a chance of survival.
Rest in Peace
Go on… 🤔 You obviously must be a commercial airline pilot who is knowledgeable in ditching several tons of metal and hazardous chemicals. Please, take time from you airline pilot day job and share more of your knowledge.
Rude comment. A similar situation is what took down Swiss Air 111 - the pilots had a crazy-long emergency checklist and it's part of what caused them to crash.
No one is going to survive a ditching in the ocean
You might want to look into how you pronounce 'Asiana'. It's not Arshiarna 😆
That's how it is written and pronounced in Korean, Ashee- ahna, Azee-ana is English pronunciation
That’s how they say it on the official Asiana website. I made sure for this reason. 😁
@@CuriousPilot90Does the back research - nice! But I only watch your videos specifically so I can correct your pronunciation and not because of the great aviation stories and professional presentation you provide. 😂😂 😉👍
It sounds like you're the one who needs to learn how to pronounce it 🤣
I'm with you on the pronunciation. Quite ridiculous.