Sam has also said red in general is a "warning color," watching back on some of the more dangerous scenes, you definitely notice the red against the otherwise dark backgrounds (the library scene with sisqo etc.)
it’s the use of a wide-angle shot. i feel as if it promotes a sense of loneliness, showing how little we are in this vast world that simply devours us.
I always thought Angela’s character was a deconstruction of that type of typical pretty supportive female role. The way she begins average enough, emotionally supporting the male lead, but starts following her own extreme desires further into the show agents Eliot’s wishes and spirals into her own chaos. The roles are actually reversed when Angelia begins to lose her sanity and desperately needs Eliot to be her emotional support. And as we know now Elliot was too closed off to do much of anything to save her. I found her character to be very compelling and she was in most of my favorite scenes! (Her first meeting with white rose and her journey into the E-Corp building while a riot is taking place are two of my favorites!)
I absolutely love both shows, but I feel it's extremely unfair to compare them. Daredevil goes for a gritty, realistic feeling, where what you see is what you get. Mr. Robot goes for a surreal, paranoid tone, akin to magical realism, with an unreliable narrator. This lends itself better to a more idiosyncratic, unorthodox style of cinematography, while Daredevil uses a more standard style, reserving more stylish shots to communicate specific things, like Matt using his powers. A better comparison would be Mr. Robot and Legion, another show that evokes surrealism and makes all sorts of unusual stylistic choices to drive that feeling home. You also nitpicked your examples, completely leaving out parts of Karen's arc and characterization in order to make it seem lesser to Angela. Granted, Karen is overall not a great character and sometimes drags the show down a bit, but ignoring the subplot about her past (which as of season 2 was still kept a mystery), about her guilt over the death of her coworker and her killing of Wesley, and her bested, personal interest in the moral conflict represented by Daredevil and Punisher. She may talk about other people, but the subtext is she's afraid of the consequences of being a killer, directly and indirectly. She both fears the the retribution for her crime that Punisher represents, and hopes his lethal vigilantism will prove effective and confirm she did the right thing. So yeah, if you say Mr. Robot is better than Daredevil, I can agree with that. But they're two very different shows with very different goals.
@AndroidPolitician Dealing with the guilt of, in her mind, getting many people killed (her coworker, Ben Urich, Grotto, her brother), actually killing a man, and finding her place in the world. Like I said, she's one of the weaker parts of DD and Punisher, but she's more than what this video presents her as, and she embodies the dilemma of the morality of vigilantes, from the perspective of a normal person.
@@xOriginalFlux stfu, daredevil is more fleshed out than any of those dumb ass mcu movies we've been getting so far and you know it.. its grittiness and sense of realism sets it apart from superheroes making jokes about aliens anyday..
I watched DareDevil multiple times and never got old or stale for me :\ I've watched Mr. Robot a couple times too and you're right about the cinematography being amazing But the other Marvel shows I couldn't or even want to watch twice
Daredevil was the best marvel show hands down, it was the best Netflix original show period. Mr robot & Daredevil are both amazing shows which i could watch over & over and my love for the shows would just continue to grow
Daredevil is the second best marvel show(I like Jessica Jones best) but I just really can't with the writing. I would only watch Daredevil when I was feeling like I needed something mind numbing that I didn't need all that much attention for. It's fun and all but it's characters, style and writing lead to a subpar show which yes is better than the rest of the genre shows on at the time but its tired and all been done before and better a million times.
@@sofiarodriguez6768 While i like Jessica Jones A LOT, Daredevil is a better show. Jessica Jones is a deeper, more emotional character, but i think they pulled off Daredevil as a character more than they did with Jessica.
@@tTaseric they did Daredevil well, it's just that absolutely no other character main or not had any character. They just existed to progress the plot.
@@sofiarodriguez6768 Really? Nadeem and Poindexter from Season 3 were both fantastic characters who held up without being carried by Daredevil. Frank and Karen's storylines are both really interesting to watch as they move away from Matt. Foggy, while not as established as the others, does have his own merit and the show does make him believable and likable. Fisk is also a main character, and is very well developed. Even side characters like Madam Gao, Leland Owsley and James Wesley are all perfectly unique, and all bring something new to think about or ponder on. Wesley and Owlsey being very rigid characters, who have great chemistry with the others. Gao adding new perspectives to the show, for example how she had her followers blind themselves in faith. I do have to give Jessica Jones merit tho, Their characters are all excellently written and i like how they gave their characters a life and they don't just revolve around Jessica (This is something The Punisher does). But they didn't always hit the mark i think, I wasn't really happy with how Malcom acted at the end of Season 2. Trish was really well written, especially with Season 3, but they needed to decide whether her morals are truly "I'm doing this for fun" or "I'm doing this for the good of society" because she gave a whole speech in 3x12 that seemed to be ignored in the next episode.
Karen is caring, loyal, and willing to fight and break rules to get what she wants. But this being said Karen has also been developed over like 6 seasons of 3 shows.
Ever noticed how in Daredevil season 3, the character's always have a "theme colour". Red surrounds Daredevil, Blue / Orange surround Foggy and Karen, White / Grey surround the FBI Characters, White surrounds Fisk. and when those characters meet again, the colours mix. For example, When Karen threatens the group of teens, there's red, symbolising how Daredevil has affected her. When Daredevil's on the run from the FBI, he's hidden in a small red corner surrounded by a blue newspaper printing room. Daredevil ruins Fisk's white room with his red blood. In season 1, Colour represents parts of Matt's identity. Scenes with his Dad are more yellow or golden, Scenes with Foggy and Karen are more simple, to symbolise the simplistic nature of their relationship in Season 1. Then in Episode 10 where Matt's 2 lives meet, Shots with Foggy and Karen become more vibrant, for example the harsh blue of Matt's apartment when Foggy's there. I'm not saying every shot in Daredevil is perfect, but it's not trying to be perfect. It knows it doesn't have to have a perfectly constructed, desktop wallpaper worthy shot every 3 seconds. Anyway it seems like these shows aren't even comparable, they're not even trying to be the same thing.
Matt And Karen under the rain at the end of their first date. The punisher and Matt’s conversation about killing and redemption. Franks and Matt’s conversation before frank gets arrested The light flickering red and black on daredevil as he fought his way down a building Matt flinging out his arms seeking death at the start of s3. Matt’s mom completely unfazed by her baby crying out to her, as she was mentally sick. Daredevil carrying the kid at the end of the hallway scene. The blood spraying out his torso when Nobu sliced him open. Some generic traits here and there, sure. But those do not make up a generic show. Daredevil has a complete episode about two male friends losing their friendship, intertwined with flashbacks of them coming together as brothers, way before Matt developed his alter ego. It takes place mostly in Matt’s apartment, and the lighting is fucking gorgeous. The acting superb. 50min of that. Their relationship. It deals with depression postpartum and what abandonment can do to a person. Matt is haunted by his catholic guilt and seldom believes he only does it so he has an excuse to beat the living shit out of people, but then he tells foggy about the girl he could hear a few blocks away from his own apartment, he could hear her dad coming into her room at night, and child services being useless. The law being useless. “You ever touch your daughter again and I WILL know.” The show is called Daredevil but is much more about Matt. I’m not arguing is a better show than Mr Robot, I’m arguing you picked at its very worst (yet still ver solid) aspects.
I would not consider Daredevil generic in any manner, it is the connection disparity, as soon as something continues beyond its initial launch it isn't unique. I think that many feel the same with Stranger Things for example. If you compare Daredevil to another show, you'll have a similar experience. Of course, it comes down to personal experiences with show, in a way, Game of Thrones is generic, if Mr. Robot continued endlessly it too would fall into the same, many shots say something but it depends on our interpretation
You mention a lot of good points that I can definitely understand, but I feel you give daredevil a very hard time. It is an incredible show, but when you compare it to the best show of the last 10 years, then of course you can find things that are not as great as in Mr. Robot. Nevertheless, Daredevil is an incredible show and in my eyes definetely not generic at all. I would've completely understood if you told me luke cage, iron fist or arrow were generic but daredevil? Come on, season 1 and 3 and the punisher arc in season 2 were incredibly well made...I mean who doesn't remeber the hallway fight in season 1???
First time seeing this video* and i think it's kind of unfair to blame Daredevil for it's own impact. While it wasn't the first to use that style of filmaking, to have long takes, dimly lit but very artistic scenes, and all of the other things it does, it created a trend where shows and movies began to copy that style for the next few years. Saying Daredevil is generic because of the parts of it that are similar to the other Marvel Netflix shows when it was the first is just weird to me. I also don't agree with the character takes but those are very subjective.
The style isn't something unique to Daredevil. Sure, it started the trend among other Marvel superhero shows specifically but the style itself is one of the most common styles of filmmaking. What he's saying in the video is that he started noticing how generic and simplistic Daredevil is after seeing how easy it was to imitate it. You couldn't imitate Mr. Robot like that, which already shows its increased artistic value.
Absolutely amazing analysis once again. Just like with Hannibal, I couldn't exactly figure out why I loved Mr Robot so much, but you put it into words. Please continue to upload
@@robo3007 I've always felt the chemistry between character and the pacing were better on Jones. Obviously that depends on which specific relationships we're talking about but the greatest example I can think of is Matt and Fogey's relationship compared to Jessica and Trish. Outside of the law school flashback episode I've never really seen that connection between them.
I wish there would be more people watching your videos, they're amazing and I'm awed by the amount of effort you put into analyzing those different scenes, especially your anaylsis of the Dom/ Cisco & Darlene/ Elliot & Angela scene was a real eye-opener. I also never realized what you showed us about the scene composition and how the characters on the right / left "switch" sides
I think just because Daredevils cinematography is still fantastic and just because not every shot isn’t unique doesn’t mean it’s generic. Not every shot has to be. Mr. Robot is a very unique show that required a unique style, but that doesn’t mean that standard rules of film are obsolete. It’s not generic, it’s just not as unconventional.
Look at Legion... You could say Mr Robot and it have incredible similarities. Shit, look at FIGHT CLUB. The movie was a huge inspiration for Mr Robot, beyond just the twist. So much of the cinematography and characterization is homage to Fight Club. Esmail is very open and honest of the inspirations that created Mr Robot. No idea why some fans choose to ignore that to defend the show.
Nickolas Crespo the cinematography and characterization isnt a homage to fight club lmao.. the dissociative identity disorder and the revolutionary aspects are definitely homage, but the relevance of such things are executed differently in the story, the DID is definitely a more realistic depiction in mr than fight club. the context of elliots revolution and even the cyber bombings is different (and done better imo). the cinematography resembles movies like the social network more than anything. have u watched the show?
For real, this man is making me think I didn't appreciate Mr. Robot enough, and it was already one of my favorites. I love how detail oriented and intentional all the shots and direction is.
@@GlobusTheGreat True, i dont remember which season but it was like repeating story yet in different perspective and got me confused af and thinking this is so much of try hard but when i watch the next season after that one, it makes more sense and I was eh this is freaking cool!
I disagree with what you said about the music when Fisk vs Tyrell's wife (completly blanking on her name) get dressed. When watching Dardevil I always got the impression that Fisk is always aiming for complete control and to show an aura of sophistication. Classical music is something he can control, he can chose exactly which piece he want to hear and it's not going to change. And most important of all, it's seen as a thing sophisticated people listen to. Yes it's also a trope of 'rich man only listens to classical music' but it's also a trope /for a reason/. And take the clip where Fisk smashes the guy head in with the car door. He completely loses his self control, killing the guy in a brutal (and memorable) scene. But what does Fisk do when the guy's dead? He takes a deep breath, and walks straight towards the camera, looking i to it, at us the audience, and takes up the majority of the frame. He takes back the control. Completely.
i like to think of daredevil, punisher, etc as of generic origin with tendencies towards specific. Like, it's not mr robot, ok, but occasionally it has the good stuff in it too
This. I would argue the saving grace of Daredevil s01 (and 3 to a lesser extent) is its portrayal of Fisk. I mean, damn, it's on point, I found myself watching the show just for his scenes. Maybe that's why season 2 was such a shitshow.
You don't understand Tribble's criticism yet you somehow managed to expand upon his argument. The point is that classical music just fits too stupidly well for a character like Fisk in a scene like that. Mr. Robot does not take the predictable path, it uses dissonance between music and scene to create added tension and make the scene more memorable. Not every movie/show needs to do specifically that, but something novel rather than the expected would be nice. Daredevil's cinematography and music choice are expected and predictable.
If you like Mr. Robot, I would recommend watching Legion. It's a trippy superhero show, that is less of a superhero show and more of an acid trip. It has a very good story though
Mr Robot is produced like a movie. Each location is shot until all scenes are done then they move on. This allows sets to be used when available. It also means actors could be shooting the finale on the first day of production. Original content in Mr. Robot also has advantages over the history of a comic book show. Very good comparison though!
Handmaid's Tale also uses quadrant framing and other similar visual styles, I'd love to see a comparison of those (which would be a more "fair" comparison that Mr. Robot to Daredevil IMO).
I find Karen and Angela to be the worst characters of the shows respectively but I don't find them to be awful characters, just the other characters are good or in Mr Robots case the characters are great.
I feel like a show with a blind protagonist (especially a superpowered one) should have standout sound design, but Daredevil is lacking. They could have still gotten away with the dark scenes and shots if there was some kind of motif with sound too. Say we see Daredevil walking into an alleyway, it's near pitch black with a few standout objects highlighted with both light and sound, like a neon sign for example. I think it would have been a neat way to simulate Murdock's perception of the world without relying on special effects. But the way the show was shot and presented was mostly as you say very generic.
This comparison is slightly unfair, I think, because Daredevil is an adaptation which already set certain aspects of the show by default (specifically, the characters, their backgrounds, some of the plot and tone of specific scenes)...and because this is a beloved character and comic there are, in a sense, more bridges that the show runners cannot even think to cross if they were to make sure that they don't alienate a large portion of the fandom. Mr. Robot, on the other hand, would have had more space to spread its wings and based on this they really did. I wonder though if Daredevil's season 3 would have tapped some of the points here. I can't really comment on some of the aspects of filmmaking since I mostly pay more attention to the characters, the philosophy and the acting when I watch something.
14:11 Montage 14:31 ''So it results in a series of things happening rather than a wholly specific sequence'' The sequence is very specific. By the end of episode one, Karen was saved, the Union Allied was exposed and Daredevil saves the day. But that's what the audience and Matt, Foggy and Karen believes. In reality, all these criminal actions are all still happening under Hell Kitchen's shadow. Hence, the montage of the drug production, the Yakuza and their map, Russians, the girl finding her dad murdered. The whole point of the montage is to show that Matt's victory is nothing compared to the scale of the criminal enterprise. It is specific. Edit: Grammar
I know this video came out before daredevil season 3 but that season fixes all the problems u have with her in the show. The entire episode centered around her past allows the character to feel more like . . . Her own character
Been watching your videos. As a fledgling Video Essayist it scares me how good you structure your ideas and edit your thoughts. Marvellous work sir. You earned a new loyal fan.
Karen is a great character with plenty of development in fact there’s a whole episode in season 3 that focuses on her entirely, also calling daredevil generic isn’t true at all it’s the fact that many shows copy many of the thing’s daredevil did.
Mr Robot is probably the best directed show I've seen. (There are strong competitors, of course) There are a ton of little creative decisions that enhance the visual story telling, but the show doesn't drown in so much style that it distracts or takes away from the tone. Ex: in S4, there's a bit where Elliot is hacking into a computer. The camera moves from pointing to his face, then the screen, then his hands and back to his face, over and over with time skipping. It's like a montage but with no cuts. It's a non obvious way to tell the story effectively, and that's just for a minor moment.
I see your point about Angela, but she has SO many other things to do. Her entire dealings with Phillip Price, that career arc, the infiltration of the FBI, her betrayals and/or looking out for Elliot by dealing with Tyrell + Mr. Robot, the lawsuit, Colby, that awesome karaoke scene, etc. She’s very much a supporting role but by the end of the show she made a huge impact on it, while still having the least to do. She became a very active, rather than passive, character. I don’t want to say more out of fear of spoiling it.
I feel like your whole analysis is just preference. The title of this video could have just been Why Daredevil should be Mr. Robot. Your analysis doesn't hold weight because it rejects the individual identity of Daredevil and what it is at it's essence. Where you praise Mr. Robot for it's unique identity you tear about Daredevil for not being Mr. Robot, which means your analysis is just biased against a certain identity. Your analysis of Karen for instance is a good example. I for example love Karen, she is who I think about when I think about the show, thinking about someone that good and that pure warms my heart. A supportive friend is an identity but you claim she doesn't have an identity. If you study MBTI (Myers Briggs) you will find there are specific personalities that focus very specifically at making other people around them feel valued, she is a truly swoon worthy character because she is selfless. She has her own interests and passions but you dismiss them for some reason like they don't matter. Her character does have a backstory that has nothing to do with the main characters she supports, having lost her brother, her mom, and running away from that life from all the trauma she experiences. And her support comes from a meaningful place as well its not just a tacked on characteristic. She had to run the restaurant when her mom passed away and become an adult at a young age since her dad was not a competent father or business owner. So naturally she would gravitate towards supporting others. She discovers her passion to investigate and I don't really see anything wrong with that. It does a much better job than other reporters in superhero shows. In Superman you rarely see the emotional weight Lois takes on or the inner turmoil other generic reporters in stories take, but this you actually see Karen lose people regularly and how she carries that responsibility in being apart of their story. Another case of your bias is shown in how one art style and music selection is. The scene you showed, showed us the two characters in their closets with their clothes. Kingpin had music that fit his personality, if he had music asymetrical from his identity it wouldn't be cohesive and would lack self awareness. Music in character scenes need to reflect that character's certain personality or current state. You said you don't like expected, you don't like symetrical, and your point fits well with your analysis Mr. Robot is a very asysmetrical artistically sytled show from the visuals and music. But need I remind you there is nothing wrong with order and the symetrical, the Greeks who founded basic artistic sense understood order and art for 1,000s of years and still to this day rely on order to their aesthetics. I think your analysis here is more reflective of your preferences than an objective superiority. In my art classes it was actually the opposite it was better more often than not to stick to rule instead of chaos. Chaos is more unrefined and subjective with modern art. Order is more integral in classical art, the art that would more so bankrupt a buyer. Cubanist of course started to change this where symmetry and subjective viewing experiences were more widely accepted and has become the norm. The thing is post modernism the art style you are commenting on is of the time, so then which is really generic if post modernism is the leading movement. It is order that modern times need as the needle moving towards subjective experiences is moving everward towards the extremes. Daredevil to me is far from generic, it is the best form of entertainment in it's genre and elevates the genre into art, in the performances, story telling and fight choreography. If you don't like it, that's fine, but I think it has to do more with your personality for a specific set of preferences than an objective measurement. I've yet to watch Mr. Robot, but I do intend to give it a look, it does seem good, but it is also uneasy in it's presentation. I still think you have a good expression for analysis but I do find myself disagreeing with you quite a bit.
While I was reading this, I expected to see more likes and a nice discussion on the topics you brought to the table. You made the most thoughtful comment I've read in this comment section.
@Lucas Though I agree with your main point, some of your claims don't make a lot of sense. DD is nothing like MR in terms of style and tone, and "Mr. Robot takes what DD does well, and does it at another level" sounds like a big cliché that ignores the main point of Phill's comment. I'm no expert in art, but I think a work should be judged in relation to its premises and to what it sets itself to do. It is obvious most shows could not have this festival of creativity and diversity of styles, sets and storytelling formats because it woudn't fit their definining ideas and directions. Sure, a more ambitious project gracefully executed like MR should be praised above more modest ones, but beyond style and cinematography is the human content of the work, its cathartic value and its pathos. Mr Robot is more ambitious and sofisticated, but sometimes I could not find that much of an emotional investment behind those sweeping camera movements, and I would even say it wasn't able to fulfill its promises: the ending could be more, and the answers seemed sometimes forced and out of nowhere. It was far from bad, but I was not emotionally striked at all: the climax did not have that sense of wonder and fulfillment as the ending of DD S1, if I may be honest. It left me with questions and inconsistency findings, and it didn't seem to be planned since the beggining, I didn't feel it was the only way it could have ended, like the sense of "that's how it was bound to be" that even a humble show as Agents of SHIELD induced at its finale. tldr: Mr Robot is truly great, but it could not wrap itself up according to its ambitions.
@@joaomarcos2089 Mr Robot WAS planned from the beginning, the creator Sam Email has talked about this before. It was originally planned as a film but had to be made into a series because he felt a film would have limited the capacity of the story due to length (films only a couple hours versus many many hours in a series). If you watch the series again after seeing the finale, you start to see how everything was carefully setup and foreshadowed from the beginning. It's honestly a MasterCraft class on cinema. The creative elements also have not been matched, as the other person mentioned. The one-shot episode, the no dialogue episode, the dream sitcom episode, the theatre episode, the twists, the unreliable narrator, the unique cinematography, the fantastic score, the list goes on.
@Lucas Dougherty Mind Hunter is brilliant at what it does, which is being interesting while almost perfectly realistic. I found breaking bad to be quite boring overall, I think it just wasn't my kind of show. Though Mr robot is the best show ever
@MetaPlanet Well as I said, I found it to be quite boring, and I dislike many other things about it. Something no one seems aknowledge from what I've seen at least, is that the show is ugly (in terms of quality). I mean you can't find a single 780p image in the entire show. And it's one of the thing that pisses me off. Also I'm not really a fan of the artistic direction, with a realistic/yellow New Mexico. I don't find the acting to be that impressive (Walter and Hanks definitely are, but I never was amazed by someone like Gus Fringue). The pace is pretty slow and many scenes are fillar. Whereas in a show like dark, also considered as "slow" (at least the first half of season 1), I can count on my fingers the number of fillar scenes. I'd give credit to Breaking Bad about points like its story, and the realistic relationships between character, but my opinion it has way to many flaws to be considered as a masterpiece.
Ok, yeah, you're a great youtuber. I think I can learn a lot from your content. The idea of only watching your least favorite character's parts is very smart! Subscribed. :)
Interesting challenge. I really like how you suggested that idea, only watching the scenes in a show of the character you dislike. When those characters are put in isolation, what we don’t like about watching that character is amplified because you’re forced to watch it on full display.
I have watched Mr. Robot for 4 times now all 3 season and I'm still not bored i like watching again and again and since season 4 is coming this year i want to be kept up right before it
Incredibly when all those scenes in that montage for mr robot was going at one frame per half second, I could recall most of them from memory, like the bbq, the store that elliots father owned, the animal crematorium, etc.
Mr Robot is the only show about what society is "Now". In a world where thinking for yourself and being angry with the unbalanced wealth distribution is "cringy"/edgy" and where criticising is only acceptable while talking about history already written down, Mr Robot dares to ask the right questions and point the fingers at all our critical problems. Thank you for coming at my TEDxTalk.
After watching daredevil i had to stop watching the flash and agents of shield because now i know how well written a show can be and i have seen many shows and movies and daredevil is one of the best
First video I've seen from you. Instant subscribe - I love video essays and frankly, despite of how many I've seen there are only few which were on this level of quality. Thank you for making me love and appreciate Mr. Robot even more than I have before.
Mr Robot has the best cinematography I've seen in a show, it's movie-level. And it's interesting how they changed DP after first season yet it didn't change drastically.
Stumbled on to your channel today, watched a couple of your vids, and subscribed! I am a huge fan of Mr Robot and love your analysis. You've touched on pretty much everything that makes the show so great. I really enjoyed your analysis of the scene leading up to the diner shootout and the interrelationship between the characters. Can't wait for season 4! Keep up the great work!!
Wow! Really enjoyed your vid. You have a talent for objectively analyzing movies&shows. As well as diving into super specific points, without being boring. You clearly understand the importance of word selection, bc when you dive deep into your arguments, it's absolutely enthralling to listen to.
I disagree! You couldn't compare the two plots, sure, but camera angles, character traits, how characters are utilized, all of these are VERY comparable because that's where the two shows are similar.
@@justinlegowsky1752 Camera angles, sure, but character traits and how a character is utilized all ties back to what kind of show it is, of course a supporting character in a hacker drama is different from how a supporting character is used in a superhero crime drama. They serve very different purposes to the overall story.
@@TylerTheLoser_ Well the idea is a supporting character in a good show doesn't just support the character, but the plot as well. It doesn't matter the kind of show, at least in my opinion, in all good shows and movies characters have different objectives and real personality traits. Of course the superhero is going to be the focus, because they're a superhero, but it is pointless to have a character made only to advance the character(s) and not the plot.
@@justinlegowsky1752 True, and they are actually much better about this in Daredevil Season 3. The season he used is Daredevil's worst season, but Season 3 gives much more character to Karen.
That final scene, I remembered it as soon as you showed the diner and was like “oh fuck that was a GOOD scene” even though I watched it literally 5+ years ago.
The only thing generic about Daredevil is that it's an adaptation. A lot of what happens in it is already set in stone and I think it's pretty great for what it has to do. I don't know how you'd "make it better". Just scrap the adaptation aspect maybe? Mr. Robot is however flawless though and pretty original, soooo yea, it has way more freedom.
I didn't really like Angela at first, but she becomes way more interesting and likeable over time because you can see how conflicted she is about what she really wants and how she goes about getting it
I agree with almost all the pointers mentioned above except calling Angella's character uninteresting. Her role is not just limited to supporting the lead. She is a leader in herself, making sure a lot of plot points progress. Whatever is revealed of Washington Township project is primarily because of her. She has played her cards multiple times without much (revealed) motivation from the leads. It went to an extent that Whiterose (who barely gives time to anyone, even to Elliot sometimes) decides to meet Angella in person to convince her to believe in the cause they are working for, instead of randomly getting Angella killed. She has made sure the story advances parallelly more than linearly. Would agree on you completely on what has been mentioned about Karen. Her character has been kept as support and primarily delves with helping the main characters take the plot ahead.
Mr Robot was truly a work of art. I like Marvel, don’t get me wrong but their movies or tv shows are always cookie cutter. There is already a dedicated fan base so they don’t need to have evocative music/scenes/characters, as we’re already invested without all that. But shows like Mr Robot are truly unique. They stick with you and make you think. I’m still reeling from the Finale and it was such an emotive journey to get there.
seriously great work! I just started season 3 of Mr. Robot and I'm actually not that into all of the music, I feel like some of it is abit out of place although it was well and amazing in the previous season/s
an additional note i'd like to point out, Mr. Robot isnt afraid to do something unique or different, for example, that one episode where no one spoke (aside from 2 lines) a word while following multiple different povs, with the aforementioned 2 lines being "We dont have to talk" at the start of the episode, and "I think its time we talked" at the end. and i only realized thats what was happening like halfway through the episode.
Especially since you admittedly give props to Daredevils visual style (among a few other things) don't you think labeling it as "generic" is a bit absurd? After you compliment a lot of Daredevils visuals, you say that having great visuals isn't exclusive to Daredevil. What exactly is the point of that criticism? That Daredevils visuals are somehow generic and unable to be enjoyed because other shows have great visuals too? I feel like a lot of your points boil down to "It didn't do what Mr. Robot did, so therefore it's generic". I completely understand why you might argue that Mr. Robot is better, but your arguements to label Daredevil as generic are pretty weak imo.
Seriously I don't get it?! Why does everyone hate Angela? She's my favorite character!! The eager and emotionally compromised/confused girl turned ice queen!!
Jesse I have to say, I keep returning to this essay because I love it so much and always find a whole new level of appreciation for the series. I'm curious, will you also dedicate another video to Mr. Robot, now that its final season has aired? Or release your thoughts on it somewhere?
I love both love daredevil and mr robot. Daredevil is one of the few shows that dare to attack abandonment, I mean it’s really about taste but generic I doubt it, the lighting and character movement on daredevil is really good . But I also love me robot even though the plot is not the importance if not the tone or theme the show that makes me so invested in the series. It’s really hard to have an argument because I truly feel this shows are so good and ground breaking and need more praise.
Both are good, but mr robot is more about a deep subject so It’ll leave a bigger emotional trace than daredevil, but as a superhero show, daredevil is brilliant imo. Those two shouldn’t be compared as they are completely different.
Daredevil is top 10 for me and while mr robot isn't one of my favorite shows I understand and get the love for it it's insanely deep and realistic and hits different when you are depressed
I feel like these shows have absolutely nothing in common tbh, like this comparison is very bizarre. Daredevil wasn't really trying to be anything special, it was just telling a coherent story. Mr Robot's whole gimmick is being unpredictable and making no sense and using cool cinematography I guess. They're both good shows but obviously having nothing in common...
That’s the whole point of the video though. Good versus excellent... he’s not making this just to hate on Daredevil, he’s explaining why it’s that much better
I feel like Angela was TV studios not fully trusting Sam Esmail. But I'm the end of the full series, her character was truely the reasoning behind key characters motivation throughout the show
i didnt notice before there is literally a countdown in the last scene in the streetlight and it is just perfect
racist ralphthemoviemaker is a genius
Holy shit you re right
Sam has also said red in general is a "warning color," watching back on some of the more dangerous scenes, you definitely notice the red against the otherwise dark backgrounds (the library scene with sisqo etc.)
holy shit me neither
That supercut of Mr Robots ceilings had me shook tho. 😂 Id never even noticed. Excellent work sir.
it’s the use of a wide-angle shot. i feel as if it promotes a sense of loneliness, showing how little we are in this vast world that simply devours us.
Same!
dude the way this show is shot always makes me feel stuff i think i havent seen a show in which camera work was so engaging, maybe the office
@@danielwieczorek1186
Same goes for Dark (Netflix).
@@darthbane7140 wait, who be talking about bestest show?
I enjoyed mr robot very much but after watching this I appreciate the show even more, cant wait for next season.
It was already confirmed that season 4 is the final season
@@withincode6848 I heard. Such a bummer I probably would have kept watching even if the quality degraded like The Office did.
Going through withdrawals now that it’s over
and how was it ?
@@MM-qy7si A near masterpiece
That awkward moment when Daredevil gets cancelled before Mr. Robot.
why God
Mr robot never got canceled
i like both but mr.robot is better
Daredevil got canceled bc disney is making their own streaming service so wont let netflix film with its properties
Mr Robot gets to finish lol
I always thought Angela’s character was a deconstruction of that type of typical pretty supportive female role. The way she begins average enough, emotionally supporting the male lead, but starts following her own extreme desires further into the show agents Eliot’s wishes and spirals into her own chaos. The roles are actually reversed when Angelia begins to lose her sanity and desperately needs Eliot to be her emotional support. And as we know now Elliot was too closed off to do much of anything to save her. I found her character to be very compelling and she was in most of my favorite scenes! (Her first meeting with white rose and her journey into the E-Corp building while a riot is taking place are two of my favorites!)
I absolutely love both shows, but I feel it's extremely unfair to compare them. Daredevil goes for a gritty, realistic feeling, where what you see is what you get. Mr. Robot goes for a surreal, paranoid tone, akin to magical realism, with an unreliable narrator. This lends itself better to a more idiosyncratic, unorthodox style of cinematography, while Daredevil uses a more standard style, reserving more stylish shots to communicate specific things, like Matt using his powers.
A better comparison would be Mr. Robot and Legion, another show that evokes surrealism and makes all sorts of unusual stylistic choices to drive that feeling home.
You also nitpicked your examples, completely leaving out parts of Karen's arc and characterization in order to make it seem lesser to Angela. Granted, Karen is overall not a great character and sometimes drags the show down a bit, but ignoring the subplot about her past (which as of season 2 was still kept a mystery), about her guilt over the death of her coworker and her killing of Wesley, and her bested, personal interest in the moral conflict represented by Daredevil and Punisher. She may talk about other people, but the subtext is she's afraid of the consequences of being a killer, directly and indirectly. She both fears the the retribution for her crime that Punisher represents, and hopes his lethal vigilantism will prove effective and confirm she did the right thing.
So yeah, if you say Mr. Robot is better than Daredevil, I can agree with that. But they're two very different shows with very different goals.
@AndroidPolitician Dealing with the guilt of, in her mind, getting many people killed (her coworker, Ben Urich, Grotto, her brother), actually killing a man, and finding her place in the world.
Like I said, she's one of the weaker parts of DD and Punisher, but she's more than what this video presents her as, and she embodies the dilemma of the morality of vigilantes, from the perspective of a normal person.
Especially after DD S3 Karen's arc makes a lot more sense with the flashbacks fleshing out more of her character motivations
Daredevil is trash... Literally like every other super hero movie.. Stop trying to hype it up, shits trash.
@@xOriginalFlux stfu, daredevil is more fleshed out than any of those dumb ass mcu movies we've been getting so far and you know it.. its grittiness and sense of realism sets it apart from superheroes making jokes about aliens anyday..
@@xOriginalFlux Have you seen Daredevil? Have you even seen an episode of Daredevil? Because I really dont think you have
That ceiling montage was low key an art by itself
Yeah, the use of Complication With Optimistic Outcome
is phenomenal!
Makes you realize how little you actually see ceilings in media, and how just showing it can instantly ground a setting and story.
I watched DareDevil multiple times and never got old or stale for me :\
I've watched Mr. Robot a couple times too and you're right about the cinematography being amazing
But the other Marvel shows I couldn't or even want to watch twice
Daredevil was the best marvel show hands down, it was the best Netflix original show period. Mr robot & Daredevil are both amazing shows which i could watch over & over and my love for the shows would just continue to grow
Daredevil is the second best marvel show(I like Jessica Jones best) but I just really can't with the writing. I would only watch Daredevil when I was feeling like I needed something mind numbing that I didn't need all that much attention for. It's fun and all but it's characters, style and writing lead to a subpar show which yes is better than the rest of the genre shows on at the time but its tired and all been done before and better a million times.
@@sofiarodriguez6768 While i like Jessica Jones A LOT, Daredevil is a better show. Jessica Jones is a deeper, more emotional character, but i think they pulled off Daredevil as a character more than they did with Jessica.
@@tTaseric they did Daredevil well, it's just that absolutely no other character main or not had any character. They just existed to progress the plot.
@@sofiarodriguez6768 Really? Nadeem and Poindexter from Season 3 were both fantastic characters who held up without being carried by Daredevil.
Frank and Karen's storylines are both really interesting to watch as they move away from Matt.
Foggy, while not as established as the others, does have his own merit and the show does make him believable and likable.
Fisk is also a main character, and is very well developed. Even side characters like Madam Gao, Leland Owsley and James Wesley are all perfectly unique, and all bring something new to think about or ponder on. Wesley and Owlsey being very rigid characters, who have great chemistry with the others. Gao adding new perspectives to the show, for example how she had her followers blind themselves in faith.
I do have to give Jessica Jones merit tho, Their characters are all excellently written and i like how they gave their characters a life and they don't just revolve around Jessica (This is something The Punisher does). But they didn't always hit the mark i think, I wasn't really happy with how Malcom acted at the end of Season 2. Trish was really well written, especially with Season 3, but they needed to decide whether her morals are truly "I'm doing this for fun" or "I'm doing this for the good of society" because she gave a whole speech in 3x12 that seemed to be ignored in the next episode.
Karen is caring, loyal, and willing to fight and break rules to get what she wants. But this being said Karen has also been developed over like 6 seasons of 3 shows.
Ever noticed how in Daredevil season 3, the character's always have a "theme colour".
Red surrounds Daredevil, Blue / Orange surround Foggy and Karen, White / Grey surround the FBI Characters, White surrounds Fisk.
and when those characters meet again, the colours mix. For example, When Karen threatens the group of teens, there's red, symbolising how Daredevil has affected her. When Daredevil's on the run from the FBI, he's hidden in a small red corner surrounded by a blue newspaper printing room. Daredevil ruins Fisk's white room with his red blood.
In season 1, Colour represents parts of Matt's identity. Scenes with his Dad are more yellow or golden, Scenes with Foggy and Karen are more simple, to symbolise the simplistic nature of their relationship in Season 1. Then in Episode 10 where Matt's 2 lives meet, Shots with Foggy and Karen become more vibrant, for example the harsh blue of Matt's apartment when Foggy's there.
I'm not saying every shot in Daredevil is perfect, but it's not trying to be perfect. It knows it doesn't have to have a perfectly constructed, desktop wallpaper worthy shot every 3 seconds.
Anyway it seems like these shows aren't even comparable, they're not even trying to be the same thing.
That's exactly what I think... Not every show is trying to be Breaking Bad or Mr Robot, and that's a good thing.
And you know what, I remember more about Daredevil.
yes, one was written by a 15 year old who just learned what symbolism is
@@jenm1 hm?
@@jenm1 yes.
Matt And Karen under the rain at the end of their first date.
The punisher and Matt’s conversation about killing and redemption.
Franks and Matt’s conversation before frank gets arrested
The light flickering red and black on daredevil as he fought his way down a building
Matt flinging out his arms seeking death at the start of s3.
Matt’s mom completely unfazed by her baby crying out to her, as she was mentally sick.
Daredevil carrying the kid at the end of the hallway scene.
The blood spraying out his torso when Nobu sliced him open.
Some generic traits here and there, sure. But those do not make up a generic show. Daredevil has a complete episode about two male friends losing their friendship, intertwined with flashbacks of them coming together as brothers, way before Matt developed his alter ego. It takes place mostly in Matt’s apartment, and the lighting is fucking gorgeous. The acting superb. 50min of that. Their relationship.
It deals with depression postpartum and what abandonment can do to a person.
Matt is haunted by his catholic guilt and seldom believes he only does it so he has an excuse to beat the living shit out of people, but then he tells foggy about the girl he could hear a few blocks away from his own apartment, he could hear her dad coming into her room at night, and child services being useless. The law being useless. “You ever touch your daughter again and I WILL know.”
The show is called Daredevil but is much more about Matt.
I’m not arguing is a better show than Mr Robot, I’m arguing you picked at its very worst (yet still ver solid) aspects.
I would not consider Daredevil generic in any manner, it is the connection disparity, as soon as something continues beyond its initial launch it isn't unique. I think that many feel the same with Stranger Things for example. If you compare Daredevil to another show, you'll have a similar experience.
Of course, it comes down to personal experiences with show, in a way, Game of Thrones is generic, if Mr. Robot continued endlessly it too would fall into the same, many shots say something but it depends on our interpretation
You mention a lot of good points that I can definitely understand, but I feel you give daredevil a very hard time. It is an incredible show, but when you compare it to the best show of the last 10 years, then of course you can find things that are not as great as in Mr. Robot. Nevertheless, Daredevil is an incredible show and in my eyes definetely not generic at all. I would've completely understood if you told me luke cage, iron fist or arrow were generic but daredevil? Come on, season 1 and 3 and the punisher arc in season 2 were incredibly well made...I mean who doesn't remeber the hallway fight in season 1???
everyone hyped that hallway fight before i saw it. then i saw it... and it was a fucking oldboy rip off.
I still couldn't bare to watch the first episode of Daredevil completly.
It's so generic, so standard.
@@TheBestCommenterEVER *tribute
@Amir Merrity Through you Avatar, I can already be absolutly sure that we both have a very different taste in such things.
Did he compare it to Breaking Bad? Mr Robots not even a top 10 bruh
First time seeing this video* and i think it's kind of unfair to blame Daredevil for it's own impact. While it wasn't the first to use that style of filmaking, to have long takes, dimly lit but very artistic scenes, and all of the other things it does, it created a trend where shows and movies began to copy that style for the next few years. Saying Daredevil is generic because of the parts of it that are similar to the other Marvel Netflix shows when it was the first is just weird to me. I also don't agree with the character takes but those are very subjective.
Well, that's what the description ofthe video say tho.
Oh really, and what trend is that?
The style isn't something unique to Daredevil. Sure, it started the trend among other Marvel superhero shows specifically but the style itself is one of the most common styles of filmmaking. What he's saying in the video is that he started noticing how generic and simplistic Daredevil is after seeing how easy it was to imitate it. You couldn't imitate Mr. Robot like that, which already shows its increased artistic value.
This is what happens when anyone can cut together a video and upload it on TH-cam
You clearly didn't understand what he was saying. He said nothing about imitation or originality.
I am obsessed with Mr Robot, something about it touches my soul
Absolutely amazing analysis once again. Just like with Hannibal, I couldn't exactly figure out why I loved Mr Robot so much, but you put it into words. Please continue to upload
bro he called daredevil generic and standard.
I love both of these shows, shame Daredevil got cancelled it was the best Marvel show
Personally I preferred Jessica Jones, but Daredevil was good too!
@@robo3007 I've always felt the chemistry between character and the pacing were better on Jones. Obviously that depends on which specific relationships we're talking about but the greatest example I can think of is Matt and Fogey's relationship compared to Jessica and Trish. Outside of the law school flashback episode I've never really seen that connection between them.
The Rainmaker you spelled legion wrong
Honestly only season 1 of Jessica Jones was great and that's because it was carried by David Tennant.
@@paulakroy2635 thank u lol
I wish there would be more people watching your videos, they're amazing and I'm awed by the amount of effort you put into analyzing those different scenes, especially your anaylsis of the Dom/ Cisco & Darlene/ Elliot & Angela scene was a real eye-opener. I also never realized what you showed us about the scene composition and how the characters on the right / left "switch" sides
its more or less generic than other film/t.v videos.
i never noticed the amount of ceilings lol
Season 3 of daredevil is amazing
So is season 1!
@@robo3007 and first half of season 2❤😌
I think just because Daredevils cinematography is still fantastic and just because not every shot isn’t unique doesn’t mean it’s generic. Not every shot has to be. Mr. Robot is a very unique show that required a unique style, but that doesn’t mean that standard rules of film are obsolete. It’s not generic, it’s just not as unconventional.
Not managing to be unique very much is generic, though
@@Grogeous_Maximus no daredevils cinematography is unique just not as unique as mr.robot
He didn't say anything about uniqueness. You should try responding to the points that were actually brought up.
Look at Legion... You could say Mr Robot and it have incredible similarities. Shit, look at FIGHT CLUB. The movie was a huge inspiration for Mr Robot, beyond just the twist. So much of the cinematography and characterization is homage to Fight Club. Esmail is very open and honest of the inspirations that created Mr Robot. No idea why some fans choose to ignore that to defend the show.
Nickolas Crespo the cinematography and characterization isnt a homage to fight club lmao.. the dissociative identity disorder and the revolutionary aspects are definitely homage, but the relevance of such things are executed differently in the story, the DID is definitely a more realistic depiction in mr than fight club. the context of elliots revolution and even the cyber bombings is different (and done better imo). the cinematography resembles movies like the social network more than anything. have u watched the show?
I didn't catch the count down of the pedestrian light the first time I watched the show 19:10
I only notice it when he mentioned "countdown". Damn brilliant piece of art!
For real, this man is making me think I didn't appreciate Mr. Robot enough, and it was already one of my favorites. I love how detail oriented and intentional all the shots and direction is.
@@GlobusTheGreat True, i dont remember which season but it was like repeating story yet in different perspective and got me confused af and thinking this is so much of try hard but when i watch the next season after that one, it makes more sense and I was eh this is freaking cool!
That scene is pure gold
I disagree with what you said about the music when Fisk vs Tyrell's wife (completly blanking on her name) get dressed. When watching Dardevil I always got the impression that Fisk is always aiming for complete control and to show an aura of sophistication. Classical music is something he can control, he can chose exactly which piece he want to hear and it's not going to change. And most important of all, it's seen as a thing sophisticated people listen to. Yes it's also a trope of 'rich man only listens to classical music' but it's also a trope /for a reason/.
And take the clip where Fisk smashes the guy head in with the car door. He completely loses his self control, killing the guy in a brutal (and memorable) scene. But what does Fisk do when the guy's dead? He takes a deep breath, and walks straight towards the camera, looking i to it, at us the audience, and takes up the majority of the frame. He takes back the control. Completely.
i like to think of daredevil, punisher, etc as of generic origin with tendencies towards specific.
Like, it's not mr robot, ok, but occasionally it has the good stuff in it too
This. I would argue the saving grace of Daredevil s01 (and 3 to a lesser extent) is its portrayal of Fisk. I mean, damn, it's on point, I found myself watching the show just for his scenes. Maybe that's why season 2 was such a shitshow.
Jasmine Johansson reason to have a cliche cliche
You don't understand Tribble's criticism yet you somehow managed to expand upon his argument. The point is that classical music just fits too stupidly well for a character like Fisk in a scene like that. Mr. Robot does not take the predictable path, it uses dissonance between music and scene to create added tension and make the scene more memorable. Not every movie/show needs to do specifically that, but something novel rather than the expected would be nice. Daredevil's cinematography and music choice are expected and predictable.
@Cameron Smith "What would be the narrative purpose"
I literally already said what the purpose is. I'm not going to repeat myself.
Wait... Is that Academy-Award-winning actor Rami Malek?
Yes
Yes, before he was an Academy-Award-winning actor Rami Malek
This is when he was Emmy award winning actor Rami Malek!
yes. he is freddie mercury
@@iputapipebombintoyourmailb6210 Ahh, so that's where I recognize his face from.
If you like Mr. Robot, I would recommend watching Legion. It's a trippy superhero show, that is less of a superhero show and more of an acid trip. It has a very good story though
It ended such a good show though
Yeah and the cinematography is on par or maybe even better (because of the trippyness) than Mr. Robot
@@Skitz0frenix I would say that Legion is better, but I'm biased :)
Bruh... U ain't lying.
Legion season 2 and 3 are garbage.
Your content is just like my bare nipples on a cold morning, they both make great points...keep up the good work
Ryan...... are you to open to criticism of your analogies?
😂 lol
You decided to put this on the Internet
This is best thing I've ever had the pleasure of setting my eyes on, thank you
I really love Daredevil. Especially the final season. But Mr Robot is really something else.
Mr Robot is produced like a movie. Each location is shot until all scenes are done then they move on. This allows sets to be used when available. It also means actors could be shooting the finale on the first day of production. Original content in Mr. Robot also has advantages over the history of a comic book show. Very good comparison though!
"But mister robot also tackles fairly boring subject matters [...] Hell computers"
*Cries in Cyber Security and data assurance student*
Handmaid's Tale also uses quadrant framing and other similar visual styles, I'd love to see a comparison of those (which would be a more "fair" comparison that Mr. Robot to Daredevil IMO).
Wow I never would've thought a series of shots highlighting different ceilings could be so satisfying.
Great example of detail. Great video.
I love how the crosswalk in the last Mr Robot scene has a literal countdown to the action. Legit only noticed it now
I personally find Karen an incredibly compelling character, but to each their own I guess.
Season 3 in both shows looks to their past and makes them much more relatable. OP needs to revisit this video
@@imsotyrd true by herself she was really compelling and the way that they did her arc was interesting especially after that murder
I had to skip the episode that showed Karen's past, lol
unbelievably boring
I find Karen and Angela to be the worst characters of the shows respectively but I don't find them to be awful characters, just the other characters are good or in Mr Robots case the characters are great.
Why?
This has convinced me to start watching Mr. Robot. Thanks man.
I feel like a show with a blind protagonist (especially a superpowered one) should have standout sound design, but Daredevil is lacking. They could have still gotten away with the dark scenes and shots if there was some kind of motif with sound too. Say we see Daredevil walking into an alleyway, it's near pitch black with a few standout objects highlighted with both light and sound, like a neon sign for example. I think it would have been a neat way to simulate Murdock's perception of the world without relying on special effects. But the way the show was shot and presented was mostly as you say very generic.
This comparison is slightly unfair, I think, because Daredevil is an adaptation which already set certain aspects of the show by default (specifically, the characters, their backgrounds, some of the plot and tone of specific scenes)...and because this is a beloved character and comic there are, in a sense, more bridges that the show runners cannot even think to cross if they were to make sure that they don't alienate a large portion of the fandom. Mr. Robot, on the other hand, would have had more space to spread its wings and based on this they really did.
I wonder though if Daredevil's season 3 would have tapped some of the points here. I can't really comment on some of the aspects of filmmaking since I mostly pay more attention to the characters, the philosophy and the acting when I watch something.
I'm angry at myself for not having known your channel before. Love it! It's really top-notch content. Keep up thr good work.
14:11 Montage
14:31 ''So it results in a series of things happening rather than a wholly specific sequence''
The sequence is very specific. By the end of episode one, Karen was saved, the Union Allied was exposed and Daredevil saves the day. But that's what the audience and Matt, Foggy and Karen believes.
In reality, all these criminal actions are all still happening under Hell Kitchen's shadow. Hence, the montage of the drug production, the Yakuza and their map, Russians, the girl finding her dad murdered. The whole point of the montage is to show that Matt's victory is nothing compared to the scale of the criminal enterprise.
It is specific.
Edit: Grammar
Yeah, i couldn't believe how he (the guy who made the video) could throw that off and basically call it meaningless.
I know this video came out before daredevil season 3 but that season fixes all the problems u have with her in the show. The entire episode centered around her past allows the character to feel more like . . . Her own character
amazing work!! this channel deserves to blow up
Been watching your videos. As a fledgling Video Essayist it scares me how good you structure your ideas and edit your thoughts. Marvellous work sir. You earned a new loyal fan.
Karen is a great character with plenty of development in fact there’s a whole episode in season 3 that focuses on her entirely, also calling daredevil generic isn’t true at all it’s the fact that many shows copy many of the thing’s daredevil did.
Karen doesn't have much development
Mr Robot is probably the best directed show I've seen. (There are strong competitors, of course) There are a ton of little creative decisions that enhance the visual story telling, but the show doesn't drown in so much style that it distracts or takes away from the tone. Ex: in S4, there's a bit where Elliot is hacking into a computer. The camera moves from pointing to his face, then the screen, then his hands and back to his face, over and over with time skipping. It's like a montage but with no cuts. It's a non obvious way to tell the story effectively, and that's just for a minor moment.
I see your point about Angela, but she has SO many other things to do. Her entire dealings with Phillip Price, that career arc, the infiltration of the FBI, her betrayals and/or looking out for Elliot by dealing with Tyrell + Mr. Robot, the lawsuit, Colby, that awesome karaoke scene, etc. She’s very much a supporting role but by the end of the show she made a huge impact on it, while still having the least to do. She became a very active, rather than passive, character. I don’t want to say more out of fear of spoiling it.
I feel like your whole analysis is just preference. The title of this video could have just been Why Daredevil should be Mr. Robot. Your analysis doesn't hold weight because it rejects the individual identity of Daredevil and what it is at it's essence. Where you praise Mr. Robot for it's unique identity you tear about Daredevil for not being Mr. Robot, which means your analysis is just biased against a certain identity. Your analysis of Karen for instance is a good example. I for example love Karen, she is who I think about when I think about the show, thinking about someone that good and that pure warms my heart. A supportive friend is an identity but you claim she doesn't have an identity. If you study MBTI (Myers Briggs) you will find there are specific personalities that focus very specifically at making other people around them feel valued, she is a truly swoon worthy character because she is selfless. She has her own interests and passions but you dismiss them for some reason like they don't matter. Her character does have a backstory that has nothing to do with the main characters she supports, having lost her brother, her mom, and running away from that life from all the trauma she experiences. And her support comes from a meaningful place as well its not just a tacked on characteristic. She had to run the restaurant when her mom passed away and become an adult at a young age since her dad was not a competent father or business owner. So naturally she would gravitate towards supporting others. She discovers her passion to investigate and I don't really see anything wrong with that. It does a much better job than other reporters in superhero shows. In Superman you rarely see the emotional weight Lois takes on or the inner turmoil other generic reporters in stories take, but this you actually see Karen lose people regularly and how she carries that responsibility in being apart of their story.
Another case of your bias is shown in how one art style and music selection is. The scene you showed, showed us the two characters in their closets with their clothes. Kingpin had music that fit his personality, if he had music asymetrical from his identity it wouldn't be cohesive and would lack self awareness. Music in character scenes need to reflect that character's certain personality or current state. You said you don't like expected, you don't like symetrical, and your point fits well with your analysis Mr. Robot is a very asysmetrical artistically sytled show from the visuals and music. But need I remind you there is nothing wrong with order and the symetrical, the Greeks who founded basic artistic sense understood order and art for 1,000s of years and still to this day rely on order to their aesthetics. I think your analysis here is more reflective of your preferences than an objective superiority. In my art classes it was actually the opposite it was better more often than not to stick to rule instead of chaos. Chaos is more unrefined and subjective with modern art. Order is more integral in classical art, the art that would more so bankrupt a buyer. Cubanist of course started to change this where symmetry and subjective viewing experiences were more widely accepted and has become the norm. The thing is post modernism the art style you are commenting on is of the time, so then which is really generic if post modernism is the leading movement. It is order that modern times need as the needle moving towards subjective experiences is moving everward towards the extremes.
Daredevil to me is far from generic, it is the best form of entertainment in it's genre and elevates the genre into art, in the performances, story telling and fight choreography. If you don't like it, that's fine, but I think it has to do more with your personality for a specific set of preferences than an objective measurement.
I've yet to watch Mr. Robot, but I do intend to give it a look, it does seem good, but it is also uneasy in it's presentation. I still think you have a good expression for analysis but I do find myself disagreeing with you quite a bit.
While I was reading this, I expected to see more likes and a nice discussion on the topics you brought to the table. You made the most thoughtful comment I've read in this comment section.
@Lucas Though I agree with your main point, some of your claims don't make a lot of sense. DD is nothing like MR in terms of style and tone, and "Mr. Robot takes what DD does well, and does it at another level" sounds like a big cliché that ignores the main point of Phill's comment. I'm no expert in art, but I think a work should be judged in relation to its premises and to what it sets itself to do. It is obvious most shows could not have this festival of creativity and diversity of styles, sets and storytelling formats because it woudn't fit their definining ideas and directions. Sure, a more ambitious project gracefully executed like MR should be praised above more modest ones, but beyond style and cinematography is the human content of the work, its cathartic value and its pathos.
Mr Robot is more ambitious and sofisticated, but sometimes I could not find that much of an emotional investment behind those sweeping camera movements, and I would even say it wasn't able to fulfill its promises: the ending could be more, and the answers seemed sometimes forced and out of nowhere. It was far from bad, but I was not emotionally striked at all: the climax did not have that sense of wonder and fulfillment as the ending of DD S1, if I may be honest. It left me with questions and inconsistency findings, and it didn't seem to be planned since the beggining, I didn't feel it was the only way it could have ended, like the sense of "that's how it was bound to be" that even a humble show as Agents of SHIELD induced at its finale.
tldr: Mr Robot is truly great, but it could not wrap itself up according to its ambitions.
@Lucas "Daredevil didn't even have an ending" no shit, it was cancelled. Are you dumb lmao??
@@joaomarcos2089 Mr Robot WAS planned from the beginning, the creator Sam Email has talked about this before. It was originally planned as a film but had to be made into a series because he felt a film would have limited the capacity of the story due to length (films only a couple hours versus many many hours in a series). If you watch the series again after seeing the finale, you start to see how everything was carefully setup and foreshadowed from the beginning. It's honestly a MasterCraft class on cinema. The creative elements also have not been matched, as the other person mentioned. The one-shot episode, the no dialogue episode, the dream sitcom episode, the theatre episode, the twists, the unreliable narrator, the unique cinematography, the fantastic score, the list goes on.
Daredevil s3 was a game changer.
So was Mr Robot season 3
The only things that compares to Breaking Bad are True Detective (s1), The Sopranos and Mindhunter (s1) lol
Mr Robot season 4: "I'm 4 parallel universes ahead of you"
@Lucas Dougherty Mind Hunter is brilliant at what it does, which is being interesting while almost perfectly realistic. I found breaking bad to be quite boring overall, I think it just wasn't my kind of show. Though Mr robot is the best show ever
@MetaPlanet Well as I said, I found it to be quite boring, and I dislike many other things about it. Something no one seems aknowledge from what I've seen at least, is that the show is ugly (in terms of quality). I mean you can't find a single 780p image in the entire show. And it's one of the thing that pisses me off. Also I'm not really a fan of the artistic direction, with a realistic/yellow New Mexico. I don't find the acting to be that impressive (Walter and Hanks definitely are, but I never was amazed by someone like Gus Fringue). The pace is pretty slow and many scenes are fillar. Whereas in a show like dark, also considered as "slow" (at least the first half of season 1), I can count on my fingers the number of fillar scenes.
I'd give credit to Breaking Bad about points like its story, and the realistic relationships between character, but my opinion it has way to many flaws to be considered as a masterpiece.
Nah, S1 was. S3 had a great start, but the ending wasnt rewarding enough.
Ok, yeah, you're a great youtuber. I think I can learn a lot from your content. The idea of only watching your least favorite character's parts is very smart! Subscribed. :)
Dude you're stuff is fantastic
You are stuff is fantastic?
It's kind of annoying.
I'm watching your House retrospective and LOVING it. If you'd do a Mr. Robot retro, I think I'd die and go to heaven. Love your stuff.
5:11 generic and specific, here after 4x07 and crying like a baby
Interesting challenge. I really like how you suggested that idea, only watching the scenes in a show of the character you dislike. When those characters are put in isolation, what we don’t like about watching that character is amplified because you’re forced to watch it on full display.
The ceilings really give a whole new meaning to Elliot's 'your only seeing what's in front of you, you're not seeing what's above you' line
I have watched Mr. Robot for 4 times now all 3 season and I'm still not bored i like watching again and again and since season 4 is coming this year i want to be kept up right before it
Incredibly when all those scenes in that montage for mr robot was going at one frame per half second, I could recall most of them from memory, like the bbq, the store that elliots father owned, the animal crematorium, etc.
Wow I'm glad to have found this little gem hiding on TH-cam.
(Keep up the good work.)
Mr Robot is the only show about what society is "Now". In a world where thinking for yourself and being angry with the unbalanced wealth distribution is "cringy"/edgy" and where criticising is only acceptable while talking about history already written down, Mr Robot dares to ask the right questions and point the fingers at all our critical problems.
Thank you for coming at my TEDxTalk.
After watching daredevil i had to stop watching the flash and agents of shield because now i know how well written a show can be and i have seen many shows and movies and daredevil is one of the best
First video I've seen from you. Instant subscribe - I love video essays and frankly, despite of how many I've seen there are only few which were on this level of quality. Thank you for making me love and appreciate Mr. Robot even more than I have before.
Mr Robot has the best cinematography I've seen in a show, it's movie-level. And it's interesting how they changed DP after first season yet it didn't change drastically.
Stumbled on to your channel today, watched a couple of your vids, and subscribed! I am a huge fan of Mr Robot and love your analysis. You've touched on pretty much everything that makes the show so great. I really enjoyed your analysis of the scene leading up to the diner shootout and the interrelationship between the characters. Can't wait for season 4!
Keep up the great work!!
Wow! Really enjoyed your vid. You have a talent for objectively analyzing movies&shows. As well as diving into super specific points, without being boring. You clearly understand the importance of word selection, bc when you dive deep into your arguments, it's absolutely enthralling to listen to.
don't really think you can compare these two shows. They're both masterpieces in their own genre....
You can compare them, he even gave reasons too. I assume you are a marvel fan
@@sockaponch not really, just like good tv
Yes exactly no need to comparison this two G.O.A.T shows actually..
@@sockaponch his reasons can also be shit or falsely misrepresented due to bias or comprehension
@@fightcinema3917 i like how u use the word shit and then say falsely misinterpreted, man shut your ass lol 💀🤏
It's not really fair to compare the two shows, as they are two VERY different shows at their core.
I disagree! You couldn't compare the two plots, sure, but camera angles, character traits, how characters are utilized, all of these are VERY comparable because that's where the two shows are similar.
@@justinlegowsky1752 Camera angles, sure, but character traits and how a character is utilized all ties back to what kind of show it is, of course a supporting character in a hacker drama is different from how a supporting character is used in a superhero crime drama. They serve very different purposes to the overall story.
@@TylerTheLoser_ Well the idea is a supporting character in a good show doesn't just support the character, but the plot as well. It doesn't matter the kind of show, at least in my opinion, in all good shows and movies characters have different objectives and real personality traits. Of course the superhero is going to be the focus, because they're a superhero, but it is pointless to have a character made only to advance the character(s) and not the plot.
@@justinlegowsky1752 True, and they are actually much better about this in Daredevil Season 3. The season he used is Daredevil's worst season, but Season 3 gives much more character to Karen.
@MadTrax T-That's what I said-
The brussel sprouts and pizza imagery is gonna stick with me for a while, thanks
That final scene, I remembered it as soon as you showed the diner and was like “oh fuck that was a GOOD scene” even though I watched it literally 5+ years ago.
The only thing generic about Daredevil is that it's an adaptation. A lot of what happens in it is already set in stone and I think it's pretty great for what it has to do. I don't know how you'd "make it better". Just scrap the adaptation aspect maybe?
Mr. Robot is however flawless though and pretty original, soooo yea, it has way more freedom.
ORIGINAL be careful with that word if you are describing mr robot
I didn't really like Angela at first, but she becomes way more interesting and likeable over time because you can see how conflicted she is about what she really wants and how she goes about getting it
never watched Daredevil but the things you pointed out from Mr. Robot made me realize why I liked it so much.
Great work compiling Mr Robot ceiling compilation. I've noticed Sam Esmail long wide angle shots to get a view of full rooms.
I agree with almost all the pointers mentioned above except calling Angella's character uninteresting. Her role is not just limited to supporting the lead. She is a leader in herself, making sure a lot of plot points progress. Whatever is revealed of Washington Township project is primarily because of her. She has played her cards multiple times without much (revealed) motivation from the leads. It went to an extent that Whiterose (who barely gives time to anyone, even to Elliot sometimes) decides to meet Angella in person to convince her to believe in the cause they are working for, instead of randomly getting Angella killed. She has made sure the story advances parallelly more than linearly.
Would agree on you completely on what has been mentioned about Karen. Her character has been kept as support and primarily delves with helping the main characters take the plot ahead.
18:57 I never noticed that traffic light countdown! That's amazing!
DareDevil is literally my favorite TV show among all the other superhero series. Sad that it got cancelled. Idk why netflix do this.
Wow you managed to distill what makes Mr Robot great and Daredevil only good that I couldn't quite put into words. Great analysis.
Come on now, Angela is a really well written character. In fact all the female characters are brilliantly written on Mr Robot.
Mr Robot was truly a work of art. I like Marvel, don’t get me wrong but their movies or tv shows are always cookie cutter. There is already a dedicated fan base so they don’t need to have evocative music/scenes/characters, as we’re already invested without all that. But shows like Mr Robot are truly unique. They stick with you and make you think. I’m still reeling from the Finale and it was such an emotive journey to get there.
the cinematography of mr robot is what got me interested in it in the first place. aside from the interesting protagonist ofc.
seriously great work! I just started season 3 of Mr. Robot and I'm actually not that into all of the music, I feel like some of it is abit out of place although it was well and amazing in the previous season/s
I disagree with most of the negative about daredevil but I would give you all the same points for all the other marvel shows.
an additional note i'd like to point out, Mr. Robot isnt afraid to do something unique or different, for example, that one episode where no one spoke (aside from 2 lines) a word while following multiple different povs, with the aforementioned 2 lines being "We dont have to talk" at the start of the episode, and "I think its time we talked" at the end. and i only realized thats what was happening like halfway through the episode.
Especially since you admittedly give props to Daredevils visual style (among a few other things) don't you think labeling it as "generic" is a bit absurd? After you compliment a lot of Daredevils visuals, you say that having great visuals isn't exclusive to Daredevil. What exactly is the point of that criticism? That Daredevils visuals are somehow generic and unable to be enjoyed because other shows have great visuals too? I feel like a lot of your points boil down to "It didn't do what Mr. Robot did, so therefore it's generic". I completely understand why you might argue that Mr. Robot is better, but your arguements to label Daredevil as generic are pretty weak imo.
Seriously I don't get it?! Why does everyone hate Angela? She's my favorite character!! The eager and emotionally compromised/confused girl turned ice queen!!
Jesse I have to say, I keep returning to this essay because I love it so much and always find a whole new level of appreciation for the series.
I'm curious, will you also dedicate another video to Mr. Robot, now that its final season has aired? Or release your thoughts on it somewhere?
You have some very good points but theres no denying both shows are absolutely genius.
I love both love daredevil and mr robot. Daredevil is one of the few shows that dare to attack abandonment, I mean it’s really about taste but generic I doubt it, the lighting and character movement on daredevil is really good . But I also love me robot even though the plot is not the importance if not the tone or theme the show that makes me so invested in the series. It’s really hard to have an argument because I truly feel this shows are so good and ground breaking and need more praise.
I actually adore both of these shows.
Video essay accounts try not to give the worst take ever
The shout out to the excellent series Hannibal was appreciated
16:00 That scene makes you assume and build in your head what is coming next and tears it all down with how it ends
Both are good, but mr robot is more about a deep subject so It’ll leave a bigger emotional trace than daredevil, but as a superhero show, daredevil is brilliant imo. Those two shouldn’t be compared as they are completely different.
I'm a simple man. You mention Hannibal, you get an automatic like. What an underrated TV show, most people I mention it to didn't even know it exists!
Agreed! Hannibal is so underrated.
everything that you said put a voice to my exact same thoughts very well put together
Season 3 of Daredevil is the best/most perfect season of tv that exists. You cannot change my mind.
Well mr robot season 4>>>>>>>>
I like Daredevil season three, buts it’s nowhere near the best season of television.
@@Lurker27819agree its a bit slow in the first half I like the first 2 way more
@@jsjwhw8254S3 of Mr robot>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Daredevil first 2 seasons>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I liked Daredevil more than Mr Robot, but’s my unpopular opinion.
Daredevil is top 10 for me and while mr robot isn't one of my favorite shows I understand and get the love for it it's insanely deep and realistic and hits different when you are depressed
I think a comparison between Mr. Robot and Legion would be much more interesting.
nonetheless, a beautiful video essay.
2:32 I noticed this throughout all the seasons and was wondering if others had picked up on this. Thanks for the analysis!
Daredevil is alright in my eyes, Mr Robot is a far better written series by a country mile in my view though.
I thought punisher was better than both
Gross
@@mariog1490 daredevil is better than both
Actually no mr robot, and daredevil are both amazing. Both up top with breaking bad.
And avatar tlab
“Also- ceilings.” 😂😂😂
I feel like these shows have absolutely nothing in common tbh, like this comparison is very bizarre. Daredevil wasn't really trying to be anything special, it was just telling a coherent story. Mr Robot's whole gimmick is being unpredictable and making no sense and using cool cinematography I guess. They're both good shows but obviously having nothing in common...
Don't get me wrong daredevil is good but MR ROBOT is on a whole new level of excellent. I don't think it's fair to compare them.
but you just compared them
@@jazzynyc_99 No, I said don't compare them. How else could I say that?
That’s the whole point of the video though. Good versus excellent... he’s not making this just to hate on Daredevil, he’s explaining why it’s that much better
I feel like Angela was TV studios not fully trusting Sam Esmail. But I'm the end of the full series, her character was truely the reasoning behind key characters motivation throughout the show