Coil Vs. Air - What's The Difference, And What's Faster?
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 25 มิ.ย. 2024
- In recent years, coil suspension has made a comeback in the mountain bike world. Previously just seen on DH mountain bikes, more bikes in the trail and enduro categories are starting to appear either supplied with a coil shock as standard, or boasting suspension kinematics that allow you to use a coil shock should you wish.
To try and dive deeper into the topic - and to see what might be best for you and your bike - Rich and Neil took a trip to @BikeParkWalesOfficial to run through the differences between both setups, and put them up against the clock!
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Did you guess which setup was going to be faster? Which type of suspension do you prefer? Have your say in the comments! 💬
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Did you guess which setup was going to be faster? Which type of suspension do you prefer? Have your say in the comments! 💬
Shocking results!
Fitting a 150mm shock on a canyon spectral size s (140mm) the fork still 160mm
I ride a Megatower, and it came with the Rock shox Ultimate deluxe from the factory. A year later, I decided to put a fox factory dhx2 coil with a 500-lbs spring on it. Instantly, I notice the difference between the two. The air was a lot more poppy and playful and the coil felt very flat and dull and I didn't like it at all👎🏿But that was until I learned how to tune it👍🏿 Now it's never coming off. I tend to ride more trails that have more downs than ups with lots of rocks and roots thrown in the mix(PNW), so the coil fits my riding style better than the air shock. So If you're more of a trail rider and your trails have a lot of peddling sections, then air is for you, but if you like to go downhill and fast, then the coil is where it's at. But getting one tuned for you takes some time and homework to get it just where it needs to be for your enjoyment🤘🏿
@@harveycasey1900 I got something on my bike's fork that protects the rebound adjuster, tightened it too much and still haven't found someone who can untighten it so maybe when I service my bike I'll be able to adjust my rebound? 😂
@core-i7413 I'm riding a fox factory 38 fork on my Megatower which is fully adjustable and I'm no pro. I don't know what fork you are riding, but maybe you should take a couple of few clicks out of your reboundl(counter clock wise) to slow it down. Only if you have that adjustment on your fork.
The biggest revelation for me when I got a coil, was the improved climbing - much better traction on bumpy technical uphills. I'd also add that a custom tune can transform your shock, whether it is air or coil.
you forgot to mention another selling point for coils: they last much longer between service intervals. no need for 40/100 hour full service like air.
also, coils are adjustable with rebound and compression settings. don't make it sound like "ALL you get is a spring, deal with it"
Interesting. I had different experiences. Air shocks are poppy, but it also feels "loose" sometimes on really tight, steep corners with some risk of washing out. Coil, however, especially my 11-6, has better traction and makes me feel like I can blaze through even dusty, slippery tight corners much faster and more confidently. I also can climb techy trails better on coil since the rear tire sticks to chunky rocks way better, whereas on air shock, can't tell you the number of times I've freaked out when my rear tire slips on technical ascent. As a result, I usually end up with much better times on coil. I also do a lot of rock gardens and downhills, and I find the air shocks to sometimes "fade" in performance over time after repeated bounces, getting harsher and harsher. Coil however still felt supple even during a very long descent. That being said, I do enjoy my air shock for when I just want to "play" on the trail. It's definitely fun for jumps and popping off, and for blasting through flow trails. If I were to describe the two, air shock felt more playful, while coil felt more pragmatic.
Couldn't agree more. Same for me.👍
Vague and Loose Comes to Mind .......
Very helpful thanks
Does coil still fun?
If i want to have a coil but having more fun can I add more rebond for the poppy effect or it s a bas idea?
Air shock are not used in automotive and industry for a reason. Air shock is only to save weight, needs more maintenance, and doesnt work as well as coil, but it is more versatile and easier to adjust according to riders weight.
Just wanted to say thank you to Richard. For taking time to have a picture with jensen today. Made his day . Keep up the great videos 👍
I actually think that coil can be a huge advantage for intermediate riders. Having more supple suspension at slow speeds can help them a huge amount. Then, if you also like going fast through chunky trails, coil is also pretty addictive.
That being said, air shocks can feel amazing, but I think they take a lot more effort to get them there and you have to monitor them and service them more often to keep them feeling great. Coil on the other hand can often feel great right away and requires less maintenance and you never have to check your pressure.
The air sleeve doesn’t require too much maintenance. The damping side is the same in both air and coil so it has the same maintenance requirements. The coil is less tunable the coil spring is linear you cannot put it in ‘any’ frame it has to be progressive.
Coils a WAY BETTER For More Than One Reason
@@darrinkulyk9560 I’m listening… I used both and I liked the small bump sensitivity of the coil but it was much heavier (wasn’t a problem on e-bike) and the swapping of springs for rider weight and the non tunable progression is a downside. I think it’s just personal preference not an upgrade over a good air shock.
@@tamasvarga67 I Have Been Riding Coils FULLTIME since 1978 ....... OVER 40000Km Of Off Road Experience .... and 150000km of High pro Streetbike Riding .... Never ever ran an Air shock EVER till got my CF Warden which now has a CC IL Coil on it Which IS AT LEAST 2X better than a Stupid Air Shock .
@@tamasvarga67 my CC Coil Shock IS VERY LIGHT AND Very Good .... paid 300 service 120 Progressive Spring 70 . 500$ For Like New Shock .... transformed my CF Warden 😎 Riding Fromme In The AM
Nice job as always Rich and Neil. Your time and efforts are appreciated. For what it's worth, air shocks for me.
It would have been interesting to see all the times for the different suspensions, to see if two seconds really are statistically significant
I’m a big guy (230lbs full kit on) and converting from air to coil has been the best thing I could have done. I was pushing my air shock psi near max to get close to proper sag. Being able to get the proper coil to get proper sag has made all the difference in the world.
I weigh about the same fully kitted with 2.5L of water, my coil is rated at 450lbs, what LB are you running if you don’t mind me asking? I’m sitting at 30% sag
@@bikeislife8405 i am running a 650lb spring. I do know that the frame and rear linkage of the bike is a big factor in spring weight. I’m running a RS Super Deluxe Ultimate.
No matter how often I see you guys using Bike Park Wales.. I still love the spectacular camera work and the runs .. .keep up the great work
Great job fellas on showing the difference between air springs and coil springs...really appreciate it!
Fantastic choice of music on this. Fantastic shot choice and overall great production quality. Ooooft.
That was a nice way to get a true apples-to-apples comparison, thanks guys!
I love riding coils on my bikes. Such good traction and stays more composed through chatter. I do run a pro rate spring on my trail bike though.
I can’t be the only one but the added music during editing is very distracting. The sound of rubbing ripping dirt is all that’s needed in my opinion.
It makes it epic
Agreed
10000% yes !! It’s so god dam annoying
The background music is awesome.
You have a strange ADD. 😂😂😂 I have adhd and I loved all the sounds. I don’t think you’re the only one tho.
Great idea to explain the differences between air and coil but I’m not sure timing them like this is best way to judge which one is better, or at least you should really do a lot of runs on different trails with different riders. But still enjoyed the video :)
Sick track selection brother. DNB lives on!
My 115mm travel Revel Ranger has a coil shock on it, and it's fantastic, greatly increased the capability of the bike.
The choice of tunes is fire
Have to keep in mind, that different shocks can come with different compression and rebound tunes. If you want a lighter tune you either have to do a full service of the shock damper and adjust shim stack re-oil and grease the shock alot can go wrong, or send it off to suspension specialist to adjust it which will cost money.
I think an important aspect of the coil that i think was missed is that when the travel is fully extended, the load on the suspension is minimal (maybe 25-50lbs of preload), vs. potentially 300psi of the air. Now much of the development of the negative chamber has made things better, but the fact that i can see travel when i push on my pinky when using the coil is just an example of small bump
Recently my air shock broke and I decided to try a coil for the first time ever. And to my surprise I like it a lot. I find it very smooth and consistent. I'm going to BPW this weekdend and see how it feels there.
Good content.
You choose what's for you and what terrains you ride! Safe shredding! 🤘
When do we get to take the GMBN exam?. I feel like ive been studying the same course for years.
Not all air shocks (or coil shocks) are equal. If you did the same between top-end ones, the results would/maybe different. Still, great basic video to some where either generally performs better.
The edits in here are the kind that make me want to get out and ride...😝
Sounds like what you're describing is having your rebound faster on the air shock and lower on the coil. Low rebound speed keeps the tyre on the ground more but makes it hard to pump or hop.
You should do the fpv side by side of your go pro footage to show the gains and losses on the key areas. F1 qualifying style
I love coil Shocks but on my 1997 haro extreme mtb upgrade, I could only fit an air shock, as a coil shock so small didn't have a lockout
Which model is that ergon saddle? Looks dope!
1:35 who thought of this angle? lol 😂 lov u guys
I love my Z-1 coil on my NP Scout. The coil mixed with cushcore F&R takes a lot of the high-frequency vibrations out. I would really like to see what a full squish feels like with coil F&R.... One of these days I'll get around to renting on for a day.
Super interesting - I’ve been wondering about this. Shame cos the Coil looks cooler to me 😊 but the air shock would suit my riding so I’ll stick with that…
See 3rd comment down, coil is better
Speed never mattered to me. Feel is everything. I ride a lot of rock. I put my first coil on and won't look back.
Don't know how fast you ride, but with those conditions seeing you both glove-less hurts my feelings!!
😅
I use fox air schock but what i don't like is the nitrogene fill service. Cannot do it without having specialized tools.
A progressive spring or a PDS for next time.
I love the feel of the coil while pedaling uphill. So grippy and lots of traction on a e bike. But I love a air spring for down Hill because of the pop you get when going over roots and rocks and so on. But I have just put a huge spring on my e bike and ramped up the rebound by a couple of clicks from normal and seems to work out well.
I wish they come up with coil like feel of a air shock. But running’s low air pressure with volume reducers just blows thru travel on hard impacts to get that small bump feel
So does coil aren t fun in down hill?
I want à coil but i am riding for fun
If i add more rebond to the coil for having the "pop" effect like a air one is it a good idea to keep the fun?
@@helori7731 somewhere like Snowshoe that’s chunky I rode a coil. But if a place is pretty smooth like a place called Bryce mountain which a lot smoother flow trails I use an air shock.
The only problem of the coil suspensions is the fine ajustments. With air you can adjust for your wheigt, with coil its like a generic weight.
For my elder bike i bought a coil that haved the load i want, shes works perfectly (like an air susp).
Obviliously shes heavier but stronger too.
My 2016 Canfield Balance. I generally only ride park. Ive riden with Air and Coil.. i prefer the Coil (Cane Creek Db IL).
1:42 is that Friction Cycles in Bristol?!! ❤
Awesome
My Commencal clash came with an air rear shock with no compression, I upgraded the fork so I had compression and made a big difference, am I better off the upgrade the air rear shock or try coil thanks 🙏
It heavily depends on how much travel you have. 150 / 160 is better with are and 170 / 180 (and obviously 200) is better with coil. It allows you to sit allllll the way into your rear wheel and still have active suspension and pop (especially with a progressive spring). It makes that lower end pop extremely predictable as well
What is the extra on the coil one? Mine just had coil between fitting points and not extra bit on side
This race run doesn't really prove much but it looked fun... 2 seconds isn't much. However, air is more adjustable and yes usually is poppier in it progressive nature. However, now with the progressive coils they can now be closely mimicked. Also, the PUSH coils are amazing with their tech to have a dual shock in one by the flick of a switch. The air shock used in this demo the RS Super deluxe Ultimate has a smaller air can so it sits higher in its travel and under consistent chatter, it will skip over jank, which leaves you losing traction. However the RS Vivid or the Fox X2 would have been a more closer and fair assessment to a coil. As these can be set up much closer to the coil, not exactly but close. The larger air can help keep the rear wheel planted and they can be tuned to achieve a more linear or more progressive response from them. I'm curious why they didn't do this test with a larger air can air shock?
Coils hamstering is not my thing, I have thrown away many a coil spring. I only ride air springs nowadays.
How do I find out if my geometry is linear or progressive?
I personally prefer coil shocks because of some newbies you can adjust the rebound firmness and weight by twisting
Which shock style is better for longevity? Does one need more service than the other? And if so, typical cost of service? (Noobie to full sus over here)
I’d imagine typical things to go like seals aren’t to to costly but I would guess air shocks go through seals more often.
The Coil looked more forgiving so I am going to say that it was faster 8.50 *before going actually discussing it* by .02 seconds huge difference I was right about it being more forgiving on the bigger bumps.
I have the Mega 297 PUSH edition - having always ridden air shocks I found it to be slightly too linear and find it hard to get a balance between support on big hits and small bump sensitivity/sag. Anyone else in this situation?
I always hear from push owners that it feels linear as hell, good for the roughest places but too linear everywhere else. the general advice is usually try a progressive spring on it if possible. Or I'd feel confident enough to recommend selling the push and get a Rs sdu coil. All the push owners in my group think it works just as well but you save ~$1k and it feels more lively and progressive and way better with the hydraulic bottom out
test the z1 coil
Do you have to set up the fork to compliment the rear shock being used?
Ideally yes you want the bike to be balanced when under compression but there’s a lot of of personal preference as well
Coil for rough, chattery, big rocky trails, air for everything else.
I'm coil converted. Even in the fork.
my shock is an fox kashima dhxrc4 and its got air in it what about those types coils with air in it
Fox's coil/air are super underrated, I think primarily because they're not the latest and greatest. I have an old Santa Cruz with a coil/air dhx 5.0 from 2006, it's the best shock I've ever ridden. Supple on small stuff but progressive on big stuff, and fun because it can be set up poppy. Starting to be impossible to find rebuild kits though.
recently put a coil shock with a piggy back and had to install it on mybrothers bike upside down and backwards as it was the only way it would fit
I live close to a river and lake so most my riding is on massive amounts of rounded out stone gardens. Would a spring on terrain like this make traction worse than with air?
A coil will give better traction than air.
@@thatguy2201 Thank ya kindly
Would love to see a comparison on forks and the differences/ pros/cons of a triple crown over a standard etc
I had a Marzocchi coil Z1 last season and I can do a mini review if you want
triple crown? yall got nothing on my quadruple crown
I remember seeing a vid where the guy did a full breakdown and testing over months. However his dual crown was upside down and was tuned for enduro. The end result was heeeaaapppps faster on the descents but only a little slower on the climbs. It was really interesting video
I would have been interested in seeing the temperature of both shocks before and after the runs.
Coil will always be cooler as there is much less friction hence they don't have intial "stiction"
Also you’ve explained the air shock with graphics howver yhe coil one has air too? It’s a combination of both? U didn’t explain that.
What would you recommend for a 220 pound guy on coil?
Or is air better for bigger guy
Coil is à lottt better for "big" guy😆
Every FS bike I've owned I've ended up replacing the air shock with a coil
I'll NEVER Use a Air Shock Again lol Coils WORK Proper 😁 Riding Fromme In the AM CF Warden 9% F 9% R 😎
0:55 talking about an air shock and showing us an coil shock, with the oil damper channels. How am I supposed to take you serious? Also: negative chamber responsible for returning the shock in unloaded position? 😦🤣 So the first air shocks, which didn't had a negative chamber never pulled back? 😭😂
Coil before and now are so different the reason why coil not good before because they do not have dampers. Now they are different beast, linear and way better on small bumps
made an appearance oi oi 6:02
coils for me. at least when the damping fails its still rideable home. a packed down airshock is scrap
Switching to coil has improved my bike so much wouldn't go back to air
I honestly think coils are very good but they just soften over time which sucks and u have to buy a new coil as for the airsus it doesnt soften becasue its air
For the vast majority of riders air is a hands down winner because it is easy to adjust. Important when we don't all have the experience of Neil and Rich to know what we need going in.
Coil is better, see third comment down. "Easy to adjust" is a worthless argument unless you're a 12 year old girl
In my opinion Air shock is better for casual riders, and spring is more for pro riders.
thank God I ride a hardtail 😅
You can still get a coil fork.
Hah, same here!
My fork isn't air inside. Way easier to service & maintain by myself.
Lots of love, cheers, & mabuhay, from my end--the Philippines! #RideOn #KeepBiking
same😂😂 i dont need to waste time
I dont care about weight i dont do crazy stunt no jump no off road all i do is daily riding for deliveroo for 17 hours a day all i want is comfort like I'm sitting in benz S class when going over normal road bump or hole so really not sure to get for my ebike my bike and it can take 155mm rear air or coil
I like the look of the coil shock but would be scared in a crash if the top tube broke and my balls got stuck in the shock as it was compressing.
try riding with clothes on!
What are you planting , crops
if you're not racing or you don't care about how fast your times are, get a coil shock. people worry too much about being fast when 99% of people are have more time to find in themselves than in the gear they use
Coils for me.
Didn’t Fanatik just create a similar video?
Graph on beginning is incorrect. And coil is better always (or You have bike rentals then coil is better)
I hate air shocks because they are not 100% reliable. Next bike will have a spring.
A British guy said "ain't"! 😂
Air
Of course coil
"Still take the same amount of pressure to compress it all the way through". A coil still has ramping pressure.. it's just linear. If it took 100kg to compress it 1mm or 10mm.. that wouldn't work very well would it. You would always be at 100% sag or 0% sag.
I ride in full rigid setup and I don't know why I'm watching this 😂
😂😂😂
We want to know what we're missing out on but also saving in our wallets
My intrusive thoughts says i can do that easy then I actually tried it like 3 months ago and I busted my ass my knee still hurts till today
This is two different music bands .
Coil all the way.
Rim dinger lol
In my opinion hardtails are better
You guys need to whip Neal back into shape. He's looking a little doughy.
He said in an Instagram post recently that he's been feeling not right for quite a while - low energy. Hopefully GMBN can support him to get whatever rest he needs.
Coil shocks is good but coils forks is bad totaly make sense Right?
These tests are so stupid, everyone knows coil gets you more chicks
Go air!
Coil are cooler
Coil for the cool
Air for the fools