I have a Mach 6 too, came with an X2 but just bought a DHX2 ... I kinda just wanted to experiment and see what the difference is. Do you notice *THAT* big of a difference
Dude your lower back issue may have something to do with your flexibility/mobility try stretching especially the hip flexors... In saying that continue using a coil if it suits you either way, just thought I may try and help elevate your back issue..
Coil is faster when you want speed with loads more traction. Air is just inherently poppier/progressive. A push 11/6 would eat that x2 up. I like your fun lively riding style. I run a float x for poppy days and the 11-6 for steep fast chunk. Had the x2 for a while but dumped it.
Great tutorial/overview! Like you, we tend to lean towards air shocks for their easy adjustments and "poppier" feel, but certain combinations of coil shocks on certain frames are like a match made in heaven.
I've ridden coil sprung bikes since 1995. This year I bought my very first air shock frame. It's very plush. I now have two air shock mountain bikes. This isn't the type of riding I do, as I live in the mid-west. So it's mostly flat. I don't have the budget to buy ether of these rear shocks. I'll have to wait until they're over 10 years old before I'll be able to afford it. This trail looks very beautiful. Thank you.
Switched from the X2 to the cheapest coil I could find... CR2. I actually found it easier to jump, feel like there's more pop for the same effort, but it's not as consistent so it's a bit frightening. The ride is much smoother. I think I'm going to throw the air shock back on after half a year to see what my impressions are.
For my style of riding in the mountains of North Carolina a coil is the way to go. There's so much chunky stuff in the majority of the trails and a coil just eats it up. I'm running a push 11 6 on an Evil Insurgent and it's a my favorite setup so far.
For me, the biggest difference is the durability. My bomber cr has been flawless for the past two years. On the other hand, my friends x2 blew up on him twice in one season, and needed a full rebuild from fox both times. Even without all the other positives of coil, their durability alone sells me on them
Wow interesting! My Superdeluxe is in its 3rd year of abuse and other than normal services it's been hassle free! Fox might be better but is it also less reliable than Rs?
@@LaVale-actually just got a new super deluxe ultimate on my new bike and it's been amazing so far! Feeling no desire to go back to coil
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I recently ordered a progressive spring for my MRP Hazard. Already love the shock, noticeable adjustments for each setting and great for the low grip riding I love around. As a bigger person I do find myself to deep in the travel sometimes and eating up my input on jumps and natural gaps. I’m looking forward to trying the progressive coil as I used to ride an air shock on this bike before.
I've been running a progressive on my kitsuma coil, you made the ride decision. I'm on the larger side, so the spring really helps keep you from blowing through that travel, and even makes it a little more playful haha, made the *right* decision
I've had X2 and DHX2, and now on EXT Storia on RM Slayer 29. For me, surprisingly better than both. Poppy and ultra traction and stable. You're obviously at another level, but would be interesting to see your thoughts on the EXT.
@@JeffKendallWeed it has a climb switch, which firms up the shock, but does not lock it out, it also stays in place well, yet is very easy to turn. I never use it on the climbs, I rarely use it, but feels better when I am carrying an unusually heavy load. I have it on a Geometron G1, but it has a custom tune for the G1. But the bike is progressive. I notice the difference but it's not such big difference that I bother with it. One thing I dislike it requires a socket for one of the adjustments. not a big deal, but I set it up once. But it has an usable range of adjustment on everything. so can't adjust it to pogo stick, or to dive.
@@mtbboy1993 you can request the lok lever to be a different ride altogether. I have mine setup for dh and trail but have to still return fork to balance between modes. Kinda like a push 11 6
@@mtbboy1993 sounds like you'd enjoy the cane creek kitsuma coil. currently running one on my v2 sentinel with a progressive coil for the past couple of months. coming from a float x, the coil actually made the bike pedal better in the OPEN setting!! (maybe it put it in the sag sweet spot so it bobs less? who knows) and the lockout on the kitsuma coil is best in class- it genuinely feels like a hard tail, complete rigid lockout. on top of that the adjustments are the absolute easiest I've used, and they make a noticeable difference even with 1 click. you should check out the shock, I really think it would work well for you.
Another excellent video Jeff! This has totally mirrored my experiences as well. I'm totally an air spring guy unless I'm trying to save energy or be lazy on a long day.
Save energy? LOL I feel like the coil has the wheels hanging up on more stuff since it can't bounce as well, so it *seems* easier, but then it takes more energy to recover. Anyhow, Steve, thanks for the note, and I love that we have you as "hardtail" guy making comments on a full squish vid! Hope to see you and Tess soon!
I just bought a Fox 38 fork & the DHX 2 coil & I thought the best place to test them out should be in Bellingham. My previous shock before the coil was a super deluxe ultimate that I should've brought along to test them out side by side like you did, but my outcome while riding trails like double down, double black & brown pow was that the coil is a little bit on the plush side of life compared to the air shock. I like it a lot 👌🏿 I live in Central Oregon & just got back home last night & I wished that I had watched this video before leaving C O. But now that I'm back in Bend I'll do a side by side test of each shock out on my local trails just to get a better feel for both of them. Shout out to Mike from Chuckanut Shuttles for hauling my ass up & down Chuckanut Mt🤘🏿That was the best 36 buck I ever spent.
I just put a coil on my GT Force 29 Alloy and it works shockingly well with the coil. I was blowing through the travel with the DPX2 at 20% sag, but the coil at 20% uses it’s travel better and even though it has less pop the bike still jumps well.
Great video as usual. Having both an air and coil shock for my V2 Ripmo has been great....at 1/10th the cost of a second bike within a few minutes in the parking lot I can change the ride feel based on my mood/trail conditions/trail type etc. Keep the great content coming!
Great video! Thanks for sharing difference. That is some rad riding. Sprindex makes an adjustable spring to make it more progressive that I got for a CC DDB IL Coil.
Awesome comparison video, and sweet riding Jeff! I switch between air and coil on my Firebird depending on the ride and my mood. Constant change keeps things interesting! 🙂
Excellent video(s). Somehow I’m just finding your channel and it is excellent. I just bought a firebird today and can’t wait for it to show up at the house so I can get after it. It comes with the coil, which will be first time on one, all previous have been floats and I’ve loved them. I was a bit nervous about the coil setup, but your video really put my mind at ease. We have a ton of roots where I normally ride and they are traction robbing goblins. I’m hopeful the coil may get some of that back while hopefully not robbing too much in terms of pump/pop. Will be happy to share my findings after the weekend. Thanks again for your efforts!
Thank you for the nice note Adam! Huge congratulations on your new new bike. The Firebird is an excellent rig and I think you will enjoy it for many years to come. I didn’t mind the coil one bit! For my running style, I tend to lean towards air, but you will be absolutely fine with the coil. Some folks prefer the coil!
Depends on the frame, a linear suspension design will not be ideal with a coil and vice versa for air with a progressive suspension design. Put a dhx2 on one frame and it may be amazing but terrible on the next frame.
@@Adam-vm8kp Yea, I was really referring to how it feels on this Firebird. My friend has one with the coil and I test-rode one with the air shock a few months ago. Great bike!
They're night and day difference. On my old GT sensor I had a coil and it felt amazing. I put a slightly stiffer spring on and it had pop and cush to it. It was perfect. The air shock that it came with was spiky and overall kind of lam. Coils for the win!
Great video Jeff, guess I am old school started racing MTB's in the 80's and when the first Fox coil came out and we were running them on 4" travel bikes they were so much better than anything else. Then the Intense M1 came out and paired with a coil was the bike everyone was running. My last two bikes came with Air shocks, Ibis Mojo HD 5 which is changed over to a coil and my Santa Cruz Heckler has a RockShox Super Deluxe and I have been unimpressed with it and will install a Fox DHX2 soon. At the end of the day all the current shocks have come so far just ride what feels right to you.
I really like a coil shock when on bumpy trails full of roots, bumps and rocks, it makes riding less fatiguing and inspires more confidence. The X2 and other higher volume air shocks are a nice compromise, where they get more pop than a coil but are more supple and forgiving than a lower volume shock like the DPX2, which I personally have found to be a little harsh on the trails I ride and have never been able to tune it totally to my liking.
Man,you connot jugde a book by its cover,thats for sure. With this kind of soft person Jeff is really a verry good rider. I hope someday i can ride trails just like you
I've put a season on each the X2 air and the DHX2 coil in Morzine. I prefer the DHX2 for it's consistant linier feel, its amazing traction and the weight. The X2's progressivety made the bike feel inconsistant on nearly every feature, not only did I have to contemplate the size of a jump, the shape of the takeoff, the size of drops or roots and rocks, I had to be prepared for the bike to react differently to everything. The DHX2 coil is always consistant and reacts the same to every feature or input allowing me to ride the trail and only focus on the trail. The weight adds to the damping effect on trail chatter, makes the bike feel more robust and feels more stable while in the air.
Hey Jeff, great review. Very informative. I went for the Canecreek Db IL coil with a progressive spring on my Occam. Best of both worlds and in a lighter set up also.
I've never ridden a coil shock, but am intrigued by this Canecreek option because of the weight. In your experience, is there any reason to not consider this option over a quality air shock? I mostly ride techy black trails and long backcountry epic type rides. I like jumping small-medium features, but I'm not a big jumper.
it is interesting how different you and I am. I massively prefer Tech over flow and the best of the best is kinda flowy tech so I personally lean more towards a coil spring over an air spring.
You're a life saver! Bought an Enduro with the Ohlin coil spec and not sure it was was love at first ride! Fortunately a mate has an X2 to demo. Agreed that coils are loads more work to get the "playful" attributes out of the trail.
uh I used to catch those snakes for fun growing up.... They did like to try to bite but usually nothing came of it. On a bike note... Is it just me or is coil easier on the body? for those of us preferring comfort to performance? Also I think I prefer a stuck to the ground feel then a poppy feel.
I like air shocks for the same reasons JKW mentioned here, but I prefer the coil. I don't have to check the pressure evey ride and with a sprindex spring adjustment of spring rate is super easy. Plus the wiper on the float is crap.
is that a loam dropper?!?!? late to the party but watching your video now.... I have the same setup on my cannondale jekyll.... orange 38 factory fork... orange PNW grips.... orange band on me loam dropper... my rear shock is the custom fox gemini one factory that comes with the jekyll 1 ... it goes from 165mm to 120mm with a flip of a handlebar switch... cheers!
I rode a 2022 Firebird and run the coil rear shock. At 270 lbs the coil feels best for me. The air felt like a noodle when I rode the Firebird with the air shock. I feel more traction, more pump more pop and stiffer running the coil. That said I could see a lighter rider benefiting from the air shock.
Coil springs have more support in the mid-part of the travel, so they might be more "playful" and supportive on some jumps and berms, on top of being better in every other way, except weight.
If Jeff would finish by saying "coil shocks is the clear winner, I don't see air shocks lasting in the market for more than a year".....the world would stop spinning.
Very interesting video, in the next bike I will definitely want to try a coil. In my opinion, the big advantage of the air shock is its easy adjustment using a pump, even between laps.
Weather a coil spring's rate is progressive, linear or digressive depends on how it is coiled and how the rate is measured (why it is always better to measure the springs load curve. The only time that they are perfectly linear is when it is measured by it's design on paper. Remember the formula for rate is static what actually takes place when the springs is active is dynamic.
Should try the EXT Storia Lok 3 or the new E-Storia with the adjustable hydraulic bottom out control. Basically it is a progressive platform you can adjust. Seriously.... Get one tuned for your bike and riding style and I think you will be amazed.
For me in New England, my coil rides way better than my DPX2, but, in every other way I prefer the air. On my already too heavy bike, the coil is double the weight of a DPX2, got to have the correct coil spring ($130 for each spring) which now that I have gained weight I do not. And, there were not available anyway (COVID supply). Air4me
frame can make a huge difference. a frame with a very regressive link will be awful soggy with a coil. the only downside of progressive rates achieved by the shock rather than frame is that the ideal rebound is different from beginning to end of stroke. a progressive linkage frame with coil shock keeps the plushness of coil, the progressiveness of air, and the linear damping of coil. I still prefer air though as it's so easy to adjust and works well on my spitfire. I think a coil would blow through travel way too easily as it's designed for an LV air can. Putting on a HV can meant I had to add tokens as it was too linear for jumping.
You should do this comparison with a Push 11-6. You can easily adjust settings on the fly depending on the type of riding you do. More so than regular coil socks.
I definitely suggest doing another comparison. If anyone wants to see just how “playful” an 11-6 can be, just search for “We built the stupidest mixed wheel bike ever” on GMBN and see how easily Blake is able to get that bike into the air at just trail speed. Air is certainly fine, but modern coils provide so much more benefit that it is a significant upgrade, IMHO, of course. Cheers!
The LMNT sachets look good, but I have a bit of a problem with sachets from the point of view of plastic waste. Are they biodegradable, or available in tablet form to reduce the packaging waste?
If you added a few clicks of LSC and a bit faster LSR, possibly even a bit more spring pre-load do you think the coil would firm up a bit to push into for pumping and jumps? Thx Jeff. Great riding! 🤘🏼
Woulda indeed helped a little, tho I already have LSR mostly backed off on both shocks. Generally I’m liking less and less damping, as the faster suspension transmits less vibration.
Was going to go for a coil on my new megatower 2 cc, but your review has made me think otherwise. I love flow trail but everything near me is pretty chunky. I live in AZ next to south mountain and occasionally go to Sedona. I know seems like I should get the coil but I am just not sure! PS: I have never ridden coil why I am more bias towards the float X2
After trying many bikes w air shocks, nothing ever seems to come close to my old coil shock dh bike. Shame there don't seem to be many aggressive trail bikes w coil shocks
Allow me to introduce you to the Arrival 170 comes stock with the new RS SDU Coil I hear it's almost as poppy as air when you get it dialed but still with the benefit of coil
Couple question. If you dont mind sharing what were you setting on the x2 and the 38? Im riding the same bike and like to compare my number to what others are running. Also what size water bottle where you able to fit.? Enjoy your videos, entertaining and informative! Thanks!
I had the same question. Hope Jeff can give us exactly what are his settings for both shock and fork to give it a try. I have calculated he is between 180 and 190 pounds according to his coil of choice.
I did. In Sedona on the Occam. The numbers are nearly identical. Within a couple hundred mm/s at most, it’s about a 1-5% difference- not as significant as tire pressure in the end.
@@JeffKendallWeed Awesome thanks for the update! I had a 2022 Fox Float X on my Kenevo SL S4 (180lbs 6ft 3) and it was so very inconsistent for me. Going to send it into Avalanche. As I don't want downtime ordered an EXT E-Storia due to support and that it can have a "trail" mode with lockout switch, then more chunk "DH" mode which is my usualy riding through Santa Barbara Cold Spring/ Tunnel in CA. Of course this will mean I need to still manually tune the front to balance.(I think you did a video here but I can no longer find it, but I find references from old MTB websites) Either way, right off the bat I am much more consistent, but also awaiting my telemetry tools to come in. Used to using telemetry for racing cars so it's not much leap to interpret the data.
I have about 8 hours of reading done into Full suspension and coil shocks ( I just bought my very first FS bike) you were saying the coil isnt as responsive in pumping ,would changing into a higher spring rate solve that issue ?
Not much of a difference, really. The coil offers slightly more traction, but provides less support. The difference is almost negligible in my opinion.
Have you ever tried or tested a Avalance tuned speed sensitive marzocchi cr coil shock? It seems like a great in between coil and air system. still generates speed out of corners and still supple on small bump. It would be sweet to see you ride one someday, i bet you would rip on one!
Awesome video Jeff, great info. I just received the new Pivot Mach 6 (after 12 years on a 26er Ibis Mojo HD, thought I'd jump up one level to 27.5 rather than all the way to 29!), with the coil. Haven't had a chance to ride it yet. Wondering if you've had a chance to ride the Mach 6, and whether you think the coil versus air feel would be similar to the Firebird? The air sounds like it would be a little more my speed. I'll try the coil out for a while first though.
Do t understand the desire to go back to spring from a decent air shock. Infinitely tuneable progressive compression v one set linear spring rate. Even downhillers rarely try a coil spring shock, relatively. But they have means to bugger about with springs instead of just pumping the thing up, or down. If your looking for the last tenth of a second and you found it in a coil then fine, but it will be a setting that won’t last past that race. The like if you and me…. Air every time. Unless it’s just the look. But nobody would compromise their ride for looks…. Would They ! Actually…. Is it my imagination, or can you see that the coil is deader to ride, or more controlled, compared to the air. Interesting Thankyou 👍
Hey Jeff. Huge fan of your channel, I'm grateful for your videos and being a fairly new mountain biker, you have helped me progress with my riding. And may I add i watch your videos non stop. What kind of pedals are you running now that you are no longer riding for shimano?
Great review, Jeff! I swap between an air and a coil quite a bit but agree and generally ride my air. Question though, I’m seeing a lot of folks start putting coils on smaller bikes, some even down in the 120-130mm range, the sb130 you have is another example. My question is this: are the differences between a coil and air as pronounced on smaller travel bikes as they are on larger travel bikes like the Firebird? My thoughts are that the benefits of a coil would be less (not as much room to move) while the drawbacks would be more significant (weight, progressively, etc.) for those use cases. Curious what your thoughts are on the trend of folks putting coils on smaller bikes.
A coil on a smaller travel bike would likely compliment it. Since coil shocks are very plush at the beginning of the stroke and have great small bump compliance and traction for days, it would likely be awesome. I would anticipate the rider needing to have the low speed compression on the firmer side to help with pedaling since most shorter travel bikes are aimed at XC/trail riding. I’m not sure what you mean by room to move, the shock should only move back and forth on the shaft and with the right size shock with proper frame clearance there wouldn’t be a room issue. I think you would definitely notice a difference between the air and coil. Cane creek makes an in-line coil shock that is awesome if you want a shorter travel coil shock that is actually good.
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My mach 6 has a coil and my lower back has thanked me every day. I sometimes miss the chaos of an air shock but the coil is so consistently agreeable.
I have a Mach 6 too, came with an X2 but just bought a DHX2 ... I kinda just wanted to experiment and see what the difference is. Do you notice *THAT* big of a difference
Dude your lower back issue may have something to do with your flexibility/mobility try stretching especially the hip flexors... In saying that continue using a coil if it suits you either way, just thought I may try and help elevate your back issue..
This is one of the only channels I'm still watching after 4 years.
Coil is faster when you want speed with loads more traction. Air is just inherently poppier/progressive. A push 11/6 would eat that x2 up. I like your fun lively riding style. I run a float x for poppy days and the 11-6 for steep fast chunk. Had the x2 for a while but dumped it.
I have a stumpy evo with a float x. I’ve thought about coil as I ride some steep tech but mostly ride trail by where I live. Any suggestions?
Great tutorial/overview! Like you, we tend to lean towards air shocks for their easy adjustments and "poppier" feel, but certain combinations of coil shocks on certain frames are like a match made in heaven.
Certainly there are places and riding style that do great with a coil, but it’s hard to go wrong with a good air shock these days!
I've ridden coil sprung bikes since 1995. This year I bought my very first air shock frame. It's very plush. I now have two air shock mountain bikes. This isn't the type of riding I do, as I live in the mid-west. So it's mostly flat. I don't have the budget to buy ether of these rear shocks. I'll have to wait until they're over 10 years old before I'll be able to afford it. This trail looks very beautiful. Thank you.
Awesome comparison video! We appreciate you putting in the time to make this video and try to answer the question, Air or Coil?
Air or coil!? Either way this bike is epic!!
Switched from the X2 to the cheapest coil I could find... CR2. I actually found it easier to jump, feel like there's more pop for the same effort, but it's not as consistent so it's a bit frightening. The ride is much smoother. I think I'm going to throw the air shock back on after half a year to see what my impressions are.
same here. Ended up switching back to X2, removing most of the volume spacers and running a couple percent less sag now and it feels pretty sweet!
For my style of riding in the mountains of North Carolina a coil is the way to go. There's so much chunky stuff in the majority of the trails and a coil just eats it up. I'm running a push 11 6 on an Evil Insurgent and it's a my favorite setup so far.
For me, the biggest difference is the durability. My bomber cr has been flawless for the past two years. On the other hand, my friends x2 blew up on him twice in one season, and needed a full rebuild from fox both times. Even without all the other positives of coil, their durability alone sells me on them
Wow interesting! My Superdeluxe is in its 3rd year of abuse and other than normal services it's been hassle free! Fox might be better but is it also less reliable than Rs?
@@LaVale-actually just got a new super deluxe ultimate on my new bike and it's been amazing so far! Feeling no desire to go back to coil
I recently ordered a progressive spring for my MRP Hazard. Already love the shock, noticeable adjustments for each setting and great for the low grip riding I love around. As a bigger person I do find myself to deep in the travel sometimes and eating up my input on jumps and natural gaps. I’m looking forward to trying the progressive coil as I used to ride an air shock on this bike before.
I've been running a progressive on my kitsuma coil, you made the ride decision.
I'm on the larger side, so the spring really helps keep you from blowing through that travel, and even makes it a little more playful
haha, made the *right* decision
thanks for the reasoning why you like each one not just 'A' is better than 'B'
I've had X2 and DHX2, and now on EXT Storia on RM Slayer 29. For me, surprisingly better than both. Poppy and ultra traction and stable. You're obviously at another level, but would be interesting to see your thoughts on the EXT.
Right on Paul, if an EXT shows up one day, I’ll try it!
@@JeffKendallWeed it has a climb switch, which firms up the shock, but does not lock it out, it also stays in place well, yet is very easy to turn.
I never use it on the climbs, I rarely use it, but feels better when I am carrying an unusually heavy load. I have it on a Geometron G1, but it has a custom tune for the G1. But the bike is progressive. I notice the difference but it's not such big difference that I bother with it.
One thing I dislike it requires a socket for one of the adjustments. not a big deal, but I set it up once. But it has an usable range of adjustment on everything. so can't adjust it to pogo stick, or to dive.
@@mtbboy1993 you can request the lok lever to be a different ride altogether. I have mine setup for dh and trail but have to still return fork to balance between modes. Kinda like a push 11 6
Yeah he is obviously on another level. I wonder if I could even tell much of a difference.
@@mtbboy1993 sounds like you'd enjoy the cane creek kitsuma coil. currently running one on my v2 sentinel with a progressive coil for the past couple of months. coming from a float x, the coil actually made the bike pedal better in the OPEN setting!! (maybe it put it in the sag sweet spot so it bobs less? who knows) and the lockout on the kitsuma coil is best in class- it genuinely feels like a hard tail, complete rigid lockout. on top of that the adjustments are the absolute easiest I've used, and they make a noticeable difference even with 1 click. you should check out the shock, I really think it would work well for you.
Another excellent video Jeff! This has totally mirrored my experiences as well. I'm totally an air spring guy unless I'm trying to save energy or be lazy on a long day.
Save energy? LOL I feel like the coil has the wheels hanging up on more stuff since it can't bounce as well, so it *seems* easier, but then it takes more energy to recover. Anyhow, Steve, thanks for the note, and I love that we have you as "hardtail" guy making comments on a full squish vid! Hope to see you and Tess soon!
I just bought a Fox 38 fork & the DHX 2 coil & I thought the best place to test them out should be in Bellingham. My previous shock before the coil was a super deluxe ultimate that I should've brought along to test them out side by side like you did, but my outcome while riding trails like double down, double black & brown pow was that the coil is a little bit on the plush side of life compared to the air shock. I like it a lot 👌🏿 I live in Central Oregon & just got back home last night & I wished that I had watched this video before leaving C O. But now that I'm back in Bend I'll do a side by side test of each shock out on my local trails just to get a better feel for both of them. Shout out to Mike from Chuckanut Shuttles for hauling my ass up & down Chuckanut Mt🤘🏿That was the best 36 buck I ever spent.
I just put a coil on my GT Force 29 Alloy and it works shockingly well with the coil. I was blowing through the travel with the DPX2 at 20% sag, but the coil at 20% uses it’s travel better and even though it has less pop the bike still jumps well.
You make riding look so much fun. And you make it look super easy. Thanks for the great informative video.
Thanks Roddas!!!
He has had lots and lots and lots of practice riding since he was like 3 years old
Great video as usual. Having both an air and coil shock for my V2 Ripmo has been great....at 1/10th the cost of a second bike within a few minutes in the parking lot I can change the ride feel based on my mood/trail conditions/trail type etc. Keep the great content coming!
Great video! Thanks for sharing difference. That is some rad riding. Sprindex makes an adjustable spring to make it more progressive that I got for a CC DDB IL Coil.
Awesome comparison video, and sweet riding Jeff! I switch between air and coil on my Firebird depending on the ride and my mood. Constant change keeps things interesting! 🙂
The only problem with the X2 is servicing them. And they will need service. When it works it works great.
Excellent video(s). Somehow I’m just finding your channel and it is excellent. I just bought a firebird today and can’t wait for it to show up at the house so I can get after it. It comes with the coil, which will be first time on one, all previous have been floats and I’ve loved them. I was a bit nervous about the coil setup, but your video really put my mind at ease. We have a ton of roots where I normally ride and they are traction robbing goblins. I’m hopeful the coil may get some of that back while hopefully not robbing too much in terms of pump/pop. Will be happy to share my findings after the weekend. Thanks again for your efforts!
Thank you for the nice note Adam! Huge congratulations on your new new bike. The Firebird is an excellent rig and I think you will enjoy it for many years to come. I didn’t mind the coil one bit! For my running style, I tend to lean towards air, but you will be absolutely fine with the coil. Some folks prefer the coil!
Kinda what I expected, honestly. Coil is the way to go for chunky trails, air shock for flow/park/fast stuff.
Depends on the frame, a linear suspension design will not be ideal with a coil and vice versa for air with a progressive suspension design. Put a dhx2 on one frame and it may be amazing but terrible on the next frame.
@@Adam-vm8kp Yea, I was really referring to how it feels on this Firebird. My friend has one with the coil and I test-rode one with the air shock a few months ago. Great bike!
@@Adam-vm8kp how much a frame can be called progressive?
Definitely the best comparison video I’ve seen on Coil VS Air.
Thanks!
THE BEARD - IS AWESOME!
They're night and day difference. On my old GT sensor I had a coil and it felt amazing. I put a slightly stiffer spring on and it had pop and cush to it. It was perfect. The air shock that it came with was spiky and overall kind of lam. Coils for the win!
Great video Jeff, guess I am old school started racing MTB's in the 80's and when the first Fox coil came out and we were running them on 4" travel bikes they were so much better than anything else. Then the Intense M1 came out and paired with a coil was the bike everyone was running. My last two bikes came with Air shocks, Ibis Mojo HD 5 which is changed over to a coil and my Santa Cruz Heckler has a RockShox Super Deluxe and I have been unimpressed with it and will install a Fox DHX2 soon. At the end of the day all the current shocks have come so far just ride what feels right to you.
Hi Jeff, how do we claim the prize I did not see a link? Thanks for all the work you do!
That’s a bot man, not actually Jeff. Don’t message it!
Thanks for explaining that, we've all been getting hit with the Telegram bot/scam lately.
I really like a coil shock when on bumpy trails full of roots, bumps and rocks, it makes riding less fatiguing and inspires more confidence. The X2 and other higher volume air shocks are a nice compromise, where they get more pop than a coil but are more supple and forgiving than a lower volume shock like the DPX2, which I personally have found to be a little harsh on the trails I ride and have never been able to tune it totally to my liking.
Man,you connot jugde a book by its cover,thats for sure.
With this kind of soft person Jeff is really a verry good rider.
I hope someday i can ride trails just like you
I've put a season on each the X2 air and the DHX2 coil in Morzine.
I prefer the DHX2 for it's consistant linier feel, its amazing traction and the weight.
The X2's progressivety made the bike feel inconsistant on nearly every feature, not only did I have to contemplate the size of a jump, the shape of the takeoff, the size of drops or roots and rocks, I had to be prepared for the bike to react differently to everything.
The DHX2 coil is always consistant and reacts the same to every feature or input allowing me to ride the trail and only focus on the trail.
The weight adds to the damping effect on trail chatter, makes the bike feel more robust and feels more stable while in the air.
Hey Jeff, great review. Very informative. I went for the Canecreek Db IL coil with a progressive spring on my Occam. Best of both worlds and in a lighter set up also.
I've never ridden a coil shock, but am intrigued by this Canecreek option because of the weight. In your experience, is there any reason to not consider this option over a quality air shock? I mostly ride techy black trails and long backcountry epic type rides. I like jumping small-medium features, but I'm not a big jumper.
it is interesting how different you and I am. I massively prefer Tech over flow and the best of the best is kinda flowy tech so I personally lean more towards a coil spring over an air spring.
Thanks for the advice. Wheelie-based buying decisions from here on out.
You're a life saver! Bought an Enduro with the Ohlin coil spec and not sure it was was love at first ride! Fortunately a mate has an X2 to demo. Agreed that coils are loads more work to get the "playful" attributes out of the trail.
I certainly would not say “loads more work”, it’s like a 3% difference, and either can be just fine! Folks sweat this difference too much IMO.
@@JeffKendallWeed to be fair I think my spring rate is too low so felt like more work. But when I get both dialed then yeah could be negligible
It would be cool if you did a push coil conversion on a fork and gave your opinion
That’s the best thing I’ve done to my lyrics
uh I used to catch those snakes for fun growing up.... They did like to try to bite but usually nothing came of it.
On a bike note... Is it just me or is coil easier on the body? for those of us preferring comfort to performance? Also I think I prefer a stuck to the ground feel then a poppy feel.
I like air shocks for the same reasons JKW mentioned here, but I prefer the coil. I don't have to check the pressure evey ride and with a sprindex spring adjustment of spring rate is super easy. Plus the wiper on the float is crap.
How many times did you rebuild the X2 while making this video? Mine would have needed at least 3 rebuilds
is that a loam dropper?!?!? late to the party but watching your video now.... I have the same setup on my cannondale jekyll.... orange 38 factory fork... orange PNW grips.... orange band on me loam dropper... my rear shock is the custom fox gemini one factory that comes with the jekyll 1 ... it goes from 165mm to 120mm with a flip of a handlebar switch... cheers!
I rode a 2022 Firebird and run the coil rear shock. At 270 lbs the coil feels best for me. The air felt like a noodle when I rode the Firebird with the air shock. I feel more traction, more pump more pop and stiffer running the coil. That said I could see a lighter rider benefiting from the air shock.
Jeff great VLOG, I am demo riding a Firebird here in Scotland tomorrow and both shocks are optiinal. Time will tell👊
Coil springs have more support in the mid-part of the travel, so they might be more "playful" and supportive on some jumps and berms, on top of being better in every other way, except weight.
If Jeff would finish by saying "coil shocks is the clear winner, I don't see air shocks lasting in the market for more than a year".....the world would stop spinning.
Dude, it seems you tires spend equal amounts of time on trail as they do in the air. That’s an awesome 50/50 ratio!
Looks super fun
I can tell that you are a good rider because of the good way that you ride.
Very interesting video, in the next bike I will definitely want to try a coil. In my opinion, the big advantage of the air shock is its easy adjustment using a pump, even between laps.
I like both if I'm honest,I run ohlins coil in my levo & a x2 air on my slopeduro
Weather a coil spring's rate is progressive, linear or digressive depends on how it is coiled and how the rate is measured (why it is always better to measure the springs load curve. The only time that they are perfectly linear is when it is measured by it's design on paper. Remember the formula for rate is static what actually takes place when the springs is active is dynamic.
Those are some sweet jumps.
Man I am 206 pounds and I am using 220 psi for 31 percent sag. Maybe I am measuring wrong. Jeff do you think I have too little air?
Just bought a Ripmo AF with a coil shock...did I mess up?
You should see about testing a progressive spring on the coil. 🤔
Should try the EXT Storia Lok 3 or the new E-Storia with the adjustable hydraulic bottom out control. Basically it is a progressive platform you can adjust. Seriously.... Get one tuned for your bike and riding style and I think you will be amazed.
If one shows up I’ll certainly try it!
I think anyone over 200lbs will have a much better experience on a coil vs air
Would a higher spring rate coil produce more pop? If that's the case, I would just carry a few different springs, right?
For me in New England, my coil rides way better than my DPX2, but, in every other way I prefer the air. On my already too heavy bike, the coil is double the weight of a DPX2, got to have the correct coil spring ($130 for each spring) which now that I have gained weight I do not. And, there were not available anyway (COVID supply). Air4me
frame can make a huge difference. a frame with a very regressive link will be awful soggy with a coil. the only downside of progressive rates achieved by the shock rather than frame is that the ideal rebound is different from beginning to end of stroke. a progressive linkage frame with coil shock keeps the plushness of coil, the progressiveness of air, and the linear damping of coil. I still prefer air though as it's so easy to adjust and works well on my spitfire. I think a coil would blow through travel way too easily as it's designed for an LV air can. Putting on a HV can meant I had to add tokens as it was too linear for jumping.
It would be interesting to see a shock with a titanium spring tested. Same spring rate to keep things equal, just a different material.
I was really hoping to see something on the climbing performance, I know coil is going to be inherently worse but I’m really curious to what extent
What I wouldn’t give to be able to ride like you! Fun to watch.
the current X2 is off the charts good. You dont lose a lot agaisnt the coil but you lose a lot of weight and gain huge adjustability
@@boblatkey7160 the X2 is overwhelming with the adjustments... I want to ride not fiddle. Sticking w/ a coil...
love the Firebird content. Such a killer bike.
You should do this comparison with a Push 11-6. You can easily adjust settings on the fly depending on the type of riding you do. More so than regular coil socks.
Meh I don’t really adjust stuff very often. Would rather just save the weight and have the more supportive set up that the air offers.
I definitely suggest doing another comparison. If anyone wants to see just how “playful” an 11-6 can be, just search for “We built the stupidest mixed wheel bike ever” on GMBN and see how easily Blake is able to get that bike into the air at just trail speed. Air is certainly fine, but modern coils provide so much more benefit that it is a significant upgrade, IMHO, of course. Cheers!
Great video, which shock would you recommend for rider over 100kg to fit on my Turbo Levo?
Bro... where do I get the tree-stand??? Another great vid Mr Jeff. I agree with everything you said, but coils can't be matched for comfort.
The LMNT sachets look good, but I have a bit of a problem with sachets from the point of view of plastic waste. Are they biodegradable, or available in tablet form to reduce the packaging waste?
8:10 man... I hope it was as fun doing it as it is watching it.
If you added a few clicks of LSC and a bit faster LSR, possibly even a bit more spring pre-load do you think the coil would firm up a bit to push into for pumping and jumps? Thx Jeff. Great riding! 🤘🏼
Woulda indeed helped a little, tho I already have LSR mostly backed off on both shocks. Generally I’m liking less and less damping, as the faster suspension transmits less vibration.
Was going to go for a coil on my new megatower 2 cc, but your review has made me think otherwise. I love flow trail but everything near me is pretty chunky. I live in AZ next to south mountain and occasionally go to Sedona. I know seems like I should get the coil but I am just not sure! PS: I have never ridden coil why I am more bias towards the float X2
What is the "you have to mash" technique suggested for the coil setup? :)
which one is more easy to use for all condition
Being a larger rider, i found i lost small bump sensitivity with a coil due to higher pressure, whereas a coil i have it all.
After trying many bikes w air shocks, nothing ever seems to come close to my old coil shock dh bike. Shame there don't seem to be many aggressive trail bikes w coil shocks
Allow me to introduce you to the Arrival 170 comes stock with the new RS SDU Coil I hear it's almost as poppy as air when you get it dialed but still with the benefit of coil
Couple question. If you dont mind sharing what were you setting on the x2 and the 38? Im riding the same bike and like to compare my number to what others are running. Also what size water bottle where you able to fit.?
Enjoy your videos, entertaining and informative!
Thanks!
I had the same question. Hope Jeff can give us exactly what are his settings for both shock and fork to give it a try. I have calculated he is between 180 and 190 pounds according to his coil of choice.
Jeff, I recommend you take a look at Motion Instruments or BYB telemetry, THEN do a comparison of air vs coil.....
I did. In Sedona on the Occam. The numbers are nearly identical. Within a couple hundred mm/s at most, it’s about a 1-5% difference- not as significant as tire pressure in the end.
@@JeffKendallWeed Awesome thanks for the update! I had a 2022 Fox Float X on my Kenevo SL S4 (180lbs 6ft 3) and it was so very inconsistent for me. Going to send it into Avalanche. As I don't want downtime ordered an EXT E-Storia due to support and that it can have a "trail" mode with lockout switch, then more chunk "DH" mode which is my usualy riding through Santa Barbara Cold Spring/ Tunnel in CA. Of course this will mean I need to still manually tune the front to balance.(I think you did a video here but I can no longer find it, but I find references from old MTB websites) Either way, right off the bat I am much more consistent, but also awaiting my telemetry tools to come in. Used to using telemetry for racing cars so it's not much leap to interpret the data.
you should really test those progressive springs
Is the Firebird compatible with an air shock? That would be the first question. Second question: do you want a sled or an all-rounder?
Now do the same thing high up in mountain altitude?Basically have both! Coil is way better high up in mountains, that’s where coil standout.
Hopefully Jeff sees this message comment and able to do Öhlins Ttx2 air shock and Öhlins Coil shock!!💛🖤
“Claimed that have made a progressive spring”
What is your opinion on that? Does it work?
Nice one. Can You do the same with an e-bike or just tell is the difference similar to the normal bike?
Thanks for the note Bart, I think the differences would be more pronounced on the eMTB.
I get the feeling you really like the firebird! It looks 🔥
Thanks it’s been a fun bike!!!
What spring rate are you using? Weight? Thanks!
I have about 8 hours of reading done into Full suspension and coil shocks ( I just bought my very first FS bike)
you were saying the coil isnt as responsive in pumping ,would changing into a higher spring rate solve that issue ?
Great information! Thank you! Keep up the good videos!
Thumbnail of this video looks like the Ancient Aliens guy but for mtb. Solid.
Great vid. Will watch more, well done
Logan is correct its Garter.
What’s the difference on a proper steep twisty tech trail with lots of roots and steps that can’t be jumped
Not much of a difference, really. The coil offers slightly more traction, but provides less support. The difference is almost negligible in my opinion.
Have you ever tried or tested a Avalance tuned speed sensitive marzocchi cr coil shock? It seems like a great in between coil and air system. still generates speed out of corners and still supple on small bump. It would be sweet to see you ride one someday, i bet you would rip on one!
Awesome video Jeff, great info. I just received the new Pivot Mach 6 (after 12 years on a 26er Ibis Mojo HD, thought I'd jump up one level to 27.5 rather than all the way to 29!), with the coil. Haven't had a chance to ride it yet. Wondering if you've had a chance to ride the Mach 6, and whether you think the coil versus air feel would be similar to the Firebird? The air sounds like it would be a little more my speed. I'll try the coil out for a while first though.
Hey! I will not leave this comment section until you've clearified what the proper name of that snake is! Great video by the way, cheers from Sweden.
😂 thanks Mabecka! It’s a garter snake in common vernacular, not sure on the “real”/scientific name!
@@JeffKendallWeed Ha HAA!!! JUSTICE FOR ALL!!! Long live the GARTER snake! (Thank you)!
Very nice and explained video !!!
Hey Jeff. Question... what brand front fender?
I really don't like the lack of on trail adjustability of coil shocks, and the weight too.
Garter
Garter. Many where I grew up in Winnipeg. A few here in Whistler.
Do t understand the desire to go back to spring from a decent air shock. Infinitely tuneable progressive compression v one set linear spring rate. Even downhillers rarely try a coil spring shock, relatively. But they have means to bugger about with springs instead of just pumping the thing up, or down. If your looking for the last tenth of a second and you found it in a coil then fine, but it will be a setting that won’t last past that race. The like if you and me…. Air every time. Unless it’s just the look. But nobody would compromise their ride for looks…. Would They !
Actually…. Is it my imagination, or can you see that the coil is deader to ride, or more controlled, compared to the air. Interesting Thankyou 👍
Hey Jeff. Huge fan of your channel, I'm grateful for your videos and being a fairly new mountain biker, you have helped me progress with my riding. And may I add i watch your videos non stop.
What kind of pedals are you running now that you are no longer riding for shimano?
On this bike he's on chromag daggas.
Don't know the setup but 215 PSI seems high for JKW. I am 200# and I ride at about 215 on a Fox Float with no volume spacers.
I was thinking the same I ride with 220 on the x2 and I am 208 with gear.
Great review, Jeff! I swap between an air and a coil quite a bit but agree and generally ride my air. Question though, I’m seeing a lot of folks start putting coils on smaller bikes, some even down in the 120-130mm range, the sb130 you have is another example. My question is this: are the differences between a coil and air as pronounced on smaller travel bikes as they are on larger travel bikes like the Firebird? My thoughts are that the benefits of a coil would be less (not as much room to move) while the drawbacks would be more significant (weight, progressively, etc.) for those use cases. Curious what your thoughts are on the trend of folks putting coils on smaller bikes.
A coil on a smaller travel bike would likely compliment it. Since coil shocks are very plush at the beginning of the stroke and have great small bump compliance and traction for days, it would likely be awesome. I would anticipate the rider needing to have the low speed compression on the firmer side to help with pedaling since most shorter travel bikes are aimed at XC/trail riding. I’m not sure what you mean by room to move, the shock should only move back and forth on the shaft and with the right size shock with proper frame clearance there wouldn’t be a room issue. I think you would definitely notice a difference between the air and coil. Cane creek makes an in-line coil shock that is awesome if you want a shorter travel coil shock that is actually good.
helpful. thanks