S3E 48 Where Are You God? Hard Book of Mormon Teachings on Terrible Things in Our Lives (Alma 13-16)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ส.ค. 2024
- Consider joining us at TSAR.website to get more thoughts on this week's reading, especially Alma 13, which we don't cover very much in this episode.
In this episode Kylie Turley and Kerry talk about the horrific story of burning women and children at Ammonihah. The delve into the possibility that Amulek's family was part of the martyrs. They talk about how, either way, this would have affected Amulek, who had brought these people to believe and then watched them suffer for it. They use this to discuss hard things that happen to the best of people, and how we can wonder where God is during those times. They look to the Book of Mormon chapters for answers to those tough questions.
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Thank you for this hard but beautiful podcast. Kylie is the daughter of my cousin and what was said here has helped me so much as I have been struggling with the shocking news of an unthinkable tragedy that just befell the daughter of another cousin. This podcast was perfectly timed to be an answer to my prayers. God bless you both.
Bless you! I think there was a lot of direction from God that brought everything about.
Oh, I do not know what to say. I have been without words for days, rather like Alma and Amulek, I suppose. We are praying for everyone in the family, especially the immediate family. I believe that God is involved is involved in the details of our lives, especially the timing of such things.
This was a very powerful podcast. Your guest was especially influential in teaching with tenderness and empathy about dealing with this topic and helping me gain understanding unlike any other time. Thank you so much.❤❤❤
She was so good wasn’t she? there is so much to learn here.
Thank you so much for listening with an open heart.
It was good for me to listen to your sensitive discussion. Sometimes we think we have to say something profound in difficult moments. But being present in the moment and saying nothing is often the best we can do.
Sometimes it is hard to not say anything, but usually anything I say will only make it worse. I am grateful when someone is just there for me.
So true!
Amen was exactly what I was think at the same moment . . Thank you for the spiritual massage. felt , , This chapter brings tears to my eyes. The book of Mormon is a sacred gift and testimony that Jesus is the truth., the light ,the way and the life. Sending love from Australia 🇦🇺 ❤️
We love to get love from Australia! We send it right back!
And this really is an important subject that I think Kylie handled so beautifully. I thank God for the comfort He sends through the Holy Ghost and His Son!
Thank you for deepening the message of this part of Alma. I had wondered if Amulek’s family had been slain in the fire because Alma had taught them and blessed them and that therefore this experience was even more traumatic than I had realized and it made sense that Alma , Almulek, and Zeezrom had suffered greater suffering and trauma than I had imagined. Thank you for sharing this message.
I want to emphasize that I don't know if Amulek's family was part of the suffering, but it makes the most sense to me that they were. And you are right, thinking that through really does deepen the meaning of what happened here, and makes us sort through some difficult things that we need to sort through. Thanks for your comment!
I agree with what Kerry said. We do not know that Amulek's family was burned, but I believe it makes the most sense. It seems most likely that they were taught when Alma "tarried many days" at Amulek's home (Alma 8:27). Even if they chose not to believe, they likely still fall into the category of being "taught to believe" (Alma 14:8).
If, on the other hand, they were not burned, it is still a tragedy. We know that Amulek was "rejected by those who were once his friends, and also by his father and his kindred" (Alma15:16). It is possible that Amulek's wife and children are among the group that reject him. If so, then Amulek has seen those closest to him reject the gospel, and stand back while he is turned over to the law, tied up, tortured, etc. Given Amulek's prominence and his family's prominence (Alma 10:1-5), there is also the horrific possibility that Amulek is not only watching people who he knows and loves burn, but that he is watching his father and/or his kindred become the kind of people who burn the innocent women and children.
What a wonderful discussion on these heart wrenching chapters. Thank you both. Prayers for Kylie for her challenges and gratitude to her for sharing precious time with us when her family was there! 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻❤️❤️❤️❤️
Amen to that! So grateful for Kylie.
Thanks for the prayers. I never turn them down!
Amen to all the grief that can be shared together and in Christ. Thank you both for your beautiful thoughts and feelings shared. Kylie your sister must have been so comforted by your efforts to share in the grief that is experienced in suffering. In our Initiatory area in the New Zealand Temple there is a beautiful painting of Christ weeping with Martha and Mary so very beautiful, sorry I do not know the artist just now.
Backing on to the back of these verses is Alma 40 where Alma expounds on the doctrine of the resurrection verse 20 reads that it is his opinion that the righteous who have died before Christ’s resurrection rise with Him at His resurrection. I like to envision all those who have heeded the prophets and come unto Christ did rise with Him and do shine forth in the kingdom of God, as Alma teaches in chapter 40, and also as you said at the beginning of the podcast Kerry.
My mother died at 44 years when I was seven years old, I know that the Lord will make all things work for good for all eternity. Jesus will make all things more than right for all eternity.
It is so amazingly comforting to know that despite whatever terrible things happen here now, one day all will be made right. That covers everything we worry about. It doesn't take away all pain, but it is surely comforting!
Yes, I am so glad that you pointed out the doctrine taught in Alma 40. What I find striking is that Alma says he "inquired diligently" to know about the resurrection (Alma 40:3). Then he goes on to say that he "inquired what becometh the souls of men from this time of death to the time appointed for the resurrection" (Alma 40:7). And then he repeats how he has "inquired diligently" to know "concerning this space of time" (Alma 40:9). I think it does not require too much speculation to read into Alma's diligence about this specific topic. It returns us right back to Ammonihah and his concern for the women and children.
@@kylienielsonturley9616 Thank you Kylie, yes I agree, the whole experience seems to have affected all of Alma teaching from that traumatic fatal event. Alma and Amulek had both been instruments in bringing them to Christ, they had rescued them in a spiritual sense but were unable to physically. It must have helped Amulek to have been able to continue with Alma in bringing others to Christ.
Thank you for your feedback Kylie, on one of my studies of this section of Alma’s teaching I have felt that the experience gave Alma great understanding of the laws of justice and mercy, and that he was able to share that knowledge with his sons, who went on to work for the salvation of souls. Is Alma’s teaching on the law of mercy the clearest we have in scripture?
Thank you so much for this unique look at this week’s study. I was so touched by the empathy and compassion expressed and feel better able to sit with someone in their suffering.
I was also very blessed by this conversation. I am so grateful that Kylie was able to take us there.
Bless you!
I am so glad that this was the message you received. Thanks for listening!
I testify that the Lord is merciful and eager to comfort us during our great heartaches. In 2019, our 14 year old son took his life. It was a nightmare in every possible way you can imagine. I knelt to pray every 30 or 40 minutes to simply be able to get through the day. Every single time I turned to the Lord for strength, He lifted me, giving me the power and ability i needed to be able to lift and strengthen my husband and our 4 other children. Even though we are still temporarily separated, I have been given to see the glorious reunion ahead,and occasionally feel that it's already happened. It's a witness to me of the power of Thinking Celestial. It's real. Because of the power of Jesus Christ, our family can cheerfully continue our individual missions here in mortality, while our son continues to learn and progress as well. The Atonement of Jesus Christ can fix anything if we receive Him. Learning is still possible for each of us. And as we learn, we can find comfort, peace, and JOY, right now, through Him!
I am so glad that you and your family have been blessed, even in times of the most terrible trial. Thank you for sharing that. Our ways and times of comfort and help come differently for everyone. How glorious that we know that in Christ they will surely come for all! Thinking Celestial can help us get through the terrible nows, though it doesn't take all the pain away. Thank God that we can look forward to the glorious and joyous later in Celestial days! Bless you and thanks for sharing!
Amen to what Kerry said!
This week’s study is so timely and so important and strengthening and healing.
The Full podcast episode this week, AND the Follow Him podcast episode this week: I wish EVERYONE could hear these! 🙏
Thank you for sharing all of this hard, harrowing, healing truth.
It is hard, and it is important. I am like you, I wish I could get everyone to listen to these! I think there is such important stuff in here. Bless you!
Thank you for this insightful podcast! Her deep and touching dive into these chapters have touched me and changed me!
Me too! It is so wonderful to be able to learn from each other in this way!
Thanks so much for sharing this response. I believe that much can be learned from reading slowly and carefully.
That is so kind of you. This is such a difficult moment in the Book of Mormon. As it has slowly became real to me, I have found (surprisingly) strength in witnessing Alma's pain. Sometimes we think that if we could follow every prompting from the Spirit, then we would be able to avoid all the suffering that life doles out. Knowing that a high priest of the church of God suffered extensively while following a direct command from an angel tells me that that thinking is incorrect. And just knowing that seems to help. No need to suffer ... and then make it worse by blaming yourself for your suffering.
Is there a way to get the pdf of the article she mentions?:
Newell Wright (North Dakota State University) - “The Trial of Jesus Christ as Reflected in the Book of Mormon: A Typological Interpretation of Alma 14”
I found the title from the program but can’t find any link to text. Thank you!
I am struggling to find it too. I will look into it further.
thank you!
I am so glad it was helpful!
thank you!