Lim-Dul's Vault is actually really good in EDH. With life totals being so high, it can effectively act like a tutor given enough iterations. It's also stronger in competitive games since there is a lot of hate against tutors (e.g. Opposition Agent, Aven Mindcensor).
it was also a staple of constructed play for a long time before it eventually got outclassed by more efficient card selection tools like brainstorm+fetchlands
This is my first time seeing Vintage gameplay. Seeing turn 1 combos and how decks pop off reminds me of Yugioh with the amount of advantage you have if your opponent doesn't interact with you and vise versa. Very cool to see how fast formats/other TCGs can play.
Yeah, saying that Vintage is essentially modern Yugioh is how I describe the format to my friends. They play pretty similarly in my opinion, though Yugioh is probably slightly, marginally, a smidge more balanced in that regard, since there's more viable interaction than just Force of Will and Mental Misstep
I really like this condensed gameplay format you've got going on, definitely a big fan for vintage games, as well as the little pop ups for sideboard notes. Thanks for having a MTG gameplay channel that respects my time. I'm still going to laugh at you for not never having seen Lim-Dul's Vault before though.
Not that it mattered but fyi you can't cast those fows at the end since all your cards are colorless now. This came up during hogaak summer in modern when someone tried to force of vigor lattice after it resolved at gp vegas
The editing messes things up here. I played tinker Karn, plussed the Karn passed. Used fow on tomb revoker then untapped and latice/Recall for the memes as they were roping, then attacked. No forces were used with Latice on the table but good point!
It's weird too because the first time he uses the Phyrexian mana first and it straight up asks him to pay 4 mana. MTGO is doing something weird with Phyrexian mana and Trinisphere, like it realises that Trinisphere should ignore Phyrexian mana spent with life but then assumes it's a 4 CMC spell because "life doesn't count for this spell under Trinisphere".
I know you are young, Harry (just a bit older than me), but I was a little surprised when you didn’t know Lim Dul’s Vault. I guess it doesn’t see much play these days outside of some fringe Tainted Pact decks in legacy or maybe a weird build of Doomsday, but it’s certainly an iconic card from the history of Legacy (and I guess commander probably)
@@CheeseWedge056 that checks out. I don’t play any commander but it seems like it would be really good in a 100 card singleton format where you have a ton of life
In the last game you kept force of wills as a backup, but all cards in your hand were colorless because of Lattice so you wouldn't be able to exile a blue card from your hand to play force for free.
12:05 It probably won't matter in this game but it is worth noting that, while Mycosynth Lattice is in play, you do not have blue cards in hand for Force, as it makes everything colorless. Edit - Spelling
@@HarryMTG I know you didn't try to. But you said you had force up if they tried anything on their turn. You didn't though, because you can't cast force for the alternate cost because you have no blue cards in hand while Lattice is in play. Karn and Lattice ensures they can't have any sequence of cards that stops you but force has nothing to do with it. That's all was saying. :)
@@HarryMTG ohh, ok I got it now. The video is super sped up so didn't realize you cast Lattice on the following turn. It goes by really quick. I got what you're saying now. :)
Also that bug with trinisphere is a know bug on mtgo not sure why they havent fixed it yet but your right you should be able to cast with 3 mana and paying the life through trinisphere
Love watching vintage. Do want to point out real quick that Mycosynth Lattice nonbos with FoW because it makes all of your cards colorless and you then can’t pitch them.
I have commander jhoira cheerios and basically retract them all to hand and griselbrand deck self. Used to use paradoxical outcome. Can happen t1 with jeweled lotus but rarely.
Playing vintage and getting mad you lose turn 1 is so confusing to me. Like this is THE format you die the fastest in. But scrubs will be scrubs I suppose. Anyways great video love seeing cards I will never ever have being used in such cool decks.
At the end i guess it is good they conceded, not that I expected a turn one answer from them at that point, but because your forces were unusable. Lattice makes your cards colorless, so no free pitching there.
Does Force of Will actually work when you have Mycosynth Lattice out? Your cards in hand are colorless so you shouldn't be able to pitch anything to Force.
at 12.05 you couldn't have played you force of wills because mycosynth lattice made all cards colorless, so unable to pitch to force. still, opponent isn't coming back from what's in play, cool deck.
I don't think the force of wills you are holding up in the final game actually work, because you have mycosynth lattice in play, thus everything in your hand is colourless, and you can't pitch anymore.
Trinisphere is one of those unique cards you have to pay close attention to because it affects your spells after all tax and reductions are considered.
Really you’ve never seen Lin duls vault that a solid card was good back in the day not played anymore but it’s not bad you can definitely do stuff with it
92k huh? I am only missing one Workshop, force of negations( but I have an unopened case of Modern Horizons), and I don’t think I have a Blightsteel. I am also missing some of the cheep stuff like Antiquities War, etc. nice.
There are only about 100 people that play vintage on MTGO. I dont know this user but they must be on the same timezone as me. Normally takes about 10 mins to find a match
Could use copy artifact, it's (u) and 1 to play an enchantment that comes into play as a copy of an artifact and is an enchantment in addition, nets you one extra blue if you tap coveted jewel for it compared to phyrexian metamorgh, not that you would run it over it but with it. Also thoughtcast, its (u) and 4 for a sorcery with affinity for artifacts that draws two cards, self explanitory in how it helps you extend and draw more agressively.
You are correct. You cannot pitch a blue card, because all of your cards are colorless with Lattice in play. Regardless, they can't do anything with Karn + Lattice in play so the Forces aren't very useful anyway. Having 3 Forces to make sure Lattice resolved was big though.
How are you going to pay alternative cost for force of will when all your cards are colorless? Also workshop should be legendary but I guess they didn’t do that back in the day.
I think you respect ragavan too much in vintage, I’ve found success ignoring it it combo decks like this and saving my forces for win the game spells and protecting my own stuff. Like they hit you a few times make a few treasures and hit a mox… you untap and tinker them.
Trinisphere is a replacement effect for the cost due to layering effects. While Trinisphere is in play you must pay a minimum of 3 mana to cast your spells, regardless of cost reductions, including abilities that say you can cast it for free. Phyrexian mana can count as 2 life, but Metamorph already costs 3 as a baseline plus one Phyrexian mana making it cmc 4 anyway. So you can pay either 3 colorless and a blue or you can pay 3 colorless and 2 life. There are no possible worlds where regardless of cost reductions, with an untapped Trinisphere, you can resolve a Metamorph with 2 colorless and 2 life. Trinisphere insists you pay a minimum of 3 actual mana, not 2 mana plus 2 life. So there's no bug...
I mean, it's Lotus + Recall in one card for basically 3 mana. It's pretty damn good in Vintage. The thing is, Vintage is just broken in general anyway.
@@taylorbates4742 It is a tier 1-ish deck, but there are way more meta defining cards ie. Bazaar, tinker, workshop, oath. That is what's crazy is Jewel is like the 40th best card in this deck haha. Love vintage
Mishra's Workshop taps for 3 mana and he is using it all to cast the spell. This is exactly what Trinisphere wants. Even if Metamorph only cast 1 Phyrexian mana to cast, he could still pay 3 mana with Mishra's Workshop. It doesn't work because it's broken.
wow, this youst look stupid from the eyes of a pauper player 😂 In pauper the only T1 kill deck (1-land spy) atleast feels fair since it almost never happens 😂
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Local vintage opponent hates when his opponents play vintage against him.
Vintage player have ruined vintage format
ahh yes strong cardboard
Salty Vintage Player is like the default state of every Yu-Gi-Oh player.
I'm pretty sure you're right, you should have been able to cast that Metamorph. It's a known bug and an old one at that apparently.
Lim-Dul's Vault is actually really good in EDH. With life totals being so high, it can effectively act like a tutor given enough iterations. It's also stronger in competitive games since there is a lot of hate against tutors (e.g. Opposition Agent, Aven Mindcensor).
it was also a staple of constructed play for a long time before it eventually got outclassed by more efficient card selection tools like brainstorm+fetchlands
It was absolutely amazing in Doomsday Zur, because it pretty much confirmed finding doomsday.
It's good for sure. It has a bit of a bad reputation tho. If the caster is not looking for 1 specific card, resolving this can easily take for ever.
Yeh I used it in Jeleva Storm back in the day
A ham sandwich is good in edh mate
This is my first time seeing Vintage gameplay. Seeing turn 1 combos and how decks pop off reminds me of Yugioh with the amount of advantage you have if your opponent doesn't interact with you and vise versa. Very cool to see how fast formats/other TCGs can play.
Yeah, saying that Vintage is essentially modern Yugioh is how I describe the format to my friends. They play pretty similarly in my opinion, though Yugioh is probably slightly, marginally, a smidge more balanced in that regard, since there's more viable interaction than just Force of Will and Mental Misstep
@@chazaqiel2319 but now you have force of negation, force of nature and endurance!
@@chazaqiel2319 Vintage has an advantage in that it doesn't have Mystic Mine
@@berserkerciaran Karn IS Mystic Mine, and it becomes Mystic Mine Plus when you add Lattice.
at 6:02, you should have DT'd for Time Vault. You have enough mana to take infinite turns.
or get like anything else.
Yeah Karn was one of the few bad choices there
I really like this condensed gameplay format you've got going on, definitely a big fan for vintage games, as well as the little pop ups for sideboard notes. Thanks for having a MTG gameplay channel that respects my time.
I'm still going to laugh at you for not never having seen Lim-Dul's Vault before though.
Not that it mattered but fyi you can't cast those fows at the end since all your cards are colorless now. This came up during hogaak summer in modern when someone tried to force of vigor lattice after it resolved at gp vegas
The editing messes things up here. I played tinker Karn, plussed the Karn passed. Used fow on tomb revoker then untapped and latice/Recall for the memes as they were roping, then attacked. No forces were used with Latice on the table but good point!
@@HarryMTG you're absolved sir haha
Almost certain you're correct about the Trinisphere interaction. Seems strange
It's weird too because the first time he uses the Phyrexian mana first and it straight up asks him to pay 4 mana. MTGO is doing something weird with Phyrexian mana and Trinisphere, like it realises that Trinisphere should ignore Phyrexian mana spent with life but then assumes it's a 4 CMC spell because "life doesn't count for this spell under Trinisphere".
12:00 we don’t actually have force of will because we don’t have blue cards. Not that it matters when opponent is locked out by Karn+Lattice
9:00 regarding cost restrictions and phyrexian. if you pay the life first, then the mana second, it works.
I know you are young, Harry (just a bit older than me), but I was a little surprised when you didn’t know Lim Dul’s Vault. I guess it doesn’t see much play these days outside of some fringe Tainted Pact decks in legacy or maybe a weird build of Doomsday, but it’s certainly an iconic card from the history of Legacy (and I guess commander probably)
It sees a fair bit of play in Cedh with some all in combo decks playing it as a 2 mana top deck tutor.
@@CheeseWedge056 that checks out. I don’t play any commander but it seems like it would be really good in a 100 card singleton format where you have a ton of life
In the last game you kept force of wills as a backup, but all cards in your hand were colorless because of Lattice so you wouldn't be able to exile a blue card from your hand to play force for free.
This is an editing mistake. I tinkered for blightsteel played karn plussed and passed. 3 forces up. Use one on Revoker untap then Lattice
vintage magic seems like yugioh with all of the fast turn one plays and hand traps
12:05 It probably won't matter in this game but it is worth noting that, while Mycosynth Lattice is in play, you do not have blue cards in hand for Force, as it makes everything colorless.
Edit - Spelling
I never tried to force with lattice in play. I played karn tinker plus pass with 3 forces. Untap lattice recall win
@@HarryMTG I know you didn't try to. But you said you had force up if they tried anything on their turn. You didn't though, because you can't cast force for the alternate cost because you have no blue cards in hand while Lattice is in play. Karn and Lattice ensures they can't have any sequence of cards that stops you but force has nothing to do with it. That's all was saying. :)
@@HarryMTG ohh, ok I got it now. The video is super sped up so didn't realize you cast Lattice on the following turn. It goes by really quick. I got what you're saying now. :)
@6:27 I think a better line of play would be to go for Vault/Key, as you already had the Key and it's pretty much good game if it resolves
100% the line there is Time Vault.
at 6:41 you should've played metamorph as a copy of their creature so you had a blocker so you dont lose your jewels.
Also that bug with trinisphere is a know bug on mtgo not sure why they havent fixed it yet but your right you should be able to cast with 3 mana and paying the life through trinisphere
Daaaamn, glad I didn’t miss the Vintage store ad. I was definitely gonna spend 7000$ on cheap cardboard.
I'm surprised you've never heard of lim-dul's vault. (You pronounced it correctly.)
Love watching vintage. Do want to point out real quick that Mycosynth Lattice nonbos with FoW because it makes all of your cards colorless and you then can’t pitch them.
I'm not a vintage player but I do play coveted jewel in my orvar deck and it's amazing how hard it can go
That’s an amazing idea
I have commander jhoira cheerios and basically retract them all to hand and griselbrand deck self. Used to use paradoxical outcome. Can happen t1 with jeweled lotus but rarely.
Why did you Demonic for Karn when you have Key in hand LOL
Never seen Lim duls vault? Oh sweet prince of summer.
Very cool fast and efficient editing style! Was a lot of fun watching :D
lim-dul's vault is a commonly used cedh card
In the last match, your forces don't do anything once you have lattice in play, not that it matters but worth knowing.
Curious if Sculpting Steel would be a better choice over Metamorph to save on life, since copying a creature seems unlikely.
Metamorph is blue so it works with Force of will
Also copying their creatures would come up a non zero amount of time. But it being blue is a very big deal.
Phyrexian metamorph and trinisphere is a known bug on mtgo. It's been that way for quite some time now
wait am I missing something? in that final game how did he have forces up if all his cards were colorless due to Mycosynth?
He had Karn in play with triple forces then passed the turn. Lattice came down the turn after to lock the game.
6:26, you play vampiric tutor with key in hand, why not to search for infinite turn combo?🤔🤔🤔
Playing vintage and getting mad you lose turn 1 is so confusing to me. Like this is THE format you die the fastest in. But scrubs will be scrubs I suppose. Anyways great video love seeing cards I will never ever have being used in such cool decks.
At the end i guess it is good they conceded, not that I expected a turn one answer from them at that point, but because your forces were unusable. Lattice makes your cards colorless, so no free pitching there.
This is an editing thing. He had forces up, plussed with Karn, passed, then next turn played Lattice.
I think the problem is with you tapping the lands before casting the spell, not 100% but MTGO is very technical about these things.
Used to love playing PO Storm, gonna have to give this iteration a shot. Nice video
Cracked up when you gave OP 10 cards off the attack
Doesn't mycocynth shut off force?
I am a simple man I see vintage content I like and comment for the algorithm
am i correct but you can't cast FoW with Mycosynt Latice in Play because there are no Blue cards in the game
This is an editing mistake. I tinkered for blightsteel played karn plussed and passed. 3 forces up. Use one on Revoker untap then Lattice
does FOW work with mycosynth lattice in play?
No, you can only hard-cast it
Just did a deck tech video on this shell and played it at MTG30, was a Blast luvin cyberdrive awakener
At 6min30 not sure he didnt fetch for time vault since he had the key
At the end could you play the forces since all the cards in your hand are colorless?
Legacy combo decks go from playing chess to playing a slot machine.
this deck is awesome. Keep up the content harry!
I dont know why I was recommended this but. I appreciate it youtube. Good video going to sub
6:00 never?? I thought it was a grixis/dimir staple. Do you not play Commander?
Just so you know you can't free cast fow when lattice is in play csuse it makes cards in all zones colorless meaning there not blue
last game you actually could not have alt casted force of will, since u did not have a blue card in hand! Lattice takes away these colors :(
I never tried to force with lattice in play. I played karn tinker plus pass with 3 forces. Untap lattice recall win.
Does Force of Will actually work when you have Mycosynth Lattice out? Your cards in hand are colorless so you shouldn't be able to pitch anything to Force.
I can't believe that last guy got so upset. Like, dude, you're playing vintage
at 12.05 you couldn't have played you force of wills because mycosynth lattice made all cards colorless, so unable to pitch to force. still, opponent isn't coming back from what's in play, cool deck.
Just out of curiosity, why would you use dismember instead of gut shot to deal with ragavan?
I do not understand people who play vintage and then complain in chat about it. Tf did you expect?
Man, vintage is fucking nuts
Better to be lucky than good 😎
I don't think the force of wills you are holding up in the final game actually work, because you have mycosynth lattice in play, thus everything in your hand is colourless, and you can't pitch anymore.
Trinisphere is one of those unique cards you have to pay close attention to because it affects your spells after all tax and reductions are considered.
He's still paying 3 though.
@@MakeVarahHappen right.
Really you’ve never seen Lin duls vault that a solid card was good back in the day not played anymore but it’s not bad you can definitely do stuff with it
At minute 6.21 DT for time vault and win was so bad? XD
Man I love vintage, the nonsense one can get up to there is just insane
I love seeing vintage gameplay
Metamorph is bugged in many ways on MTGO
Where you playing?
92k huh? I am only missing one Workshop, force of negations( but I have an unopened case of Modern Horizons), and I don’t think I have a Blightsteel. I am also missing some of the cheep stuff like Antiquities War, etc. nice.
how th have you never seen lim duls vault, card is insane
What are you playing on?
Salty opponents are the best wins
So even though you can pay 2 life when casting Metamorph, the spell itself still has a CMC of 4. The two life is just an alternative cost.
Could have tutored for time vault
is your first match always against diacritic
There are only about 100 people that play vintage on MTGO. I dont know this user but they must be on the same timezone as me. Normally takes about 10 mins to find a match
bergamo typing paragraphs challenge epick win
Please check the spelling on Hurkyl’s Recall.
BRUUUUH lim-dul's vault !? Hooow?
This was an enjoyable watch, more mtgo content pls?
Could use copy artifact, it's (u) and 1 to play an enchantment that comes into play as a copy of an artifact and is an enchantment in addition, nets you one extra blue if you tap coveted jewel for it compared to phyrexian metamorgh, not that you would run it over it but with it.
Also thoughtcast, its (u) and 4 for a sorcery with affinity for artifacts that draws two cards, self explanitory in how it helps you extend and draw more agressively.
Bruv doesnt DT for time vault bruvvvvv jeeeez
Why metamorph over copy artifact?
Probably so it can be cast off workshop if needed.
Because you’re playing Mishra’s Workshop.
Makes sense! Thanks!
In the last game I guess fow doesn't work with lattice am I wrong?
You are correct. You cannot pitch a blue card, because all of your cards are colorless with Lattice in play. Regardless, they can't do anything with Karn + Lattice in play so the Forces aren't very useful anyway. Having 3 Forces to make sure Lattice resolved was big though.
Yeah i misunderstood the meaning of "I have 3 fow" I thought it was for next turn my bad
How are you going to pay alternative cost for force of will when all your cards are colorless? Also workshop should be legendary but I guess they didn’t do that back in the day.
He only had trip FoW up before he played lattice (the frame that shows 3 FoW is
U bum, he was talking about the force of wills letting the lattice resolve, obviously he wins after lattice is in play
You can't come in with a salty mentality in vintage come on now.
Hercules Recall 💪 😜
I think you respect ragavan too much in vintage, I’ve found success ignoring it it combo decks like this and saving my forces for win the game spells and protecting my own stuff. Like they hit you a few times make a few treasures and hit a mox… you untap and tinker them.
Trinisphere is a replacement effect for the cost due to layering effects. While Trinisphere is in play you must pay a minimum of 3 mana to cast your spells, regardless of cost reductions, including abilities that say you can cast it for free. Phyrexian mana can count as 2 life, but Metamorph already costs 3 as a baseline plus one Phyrexian mana making it cmc 4 anyway. So you can pay either 3 colorless and a blue or you can pay 3 colorless and 2 life. There are no possible worlds where regardless of cost reductions, with an untapped Trinisphere, you can resolve a Metamorph with 2 colorless and 2 life. Trinisphere insists you pay a minimum of 3 actual mana, not 2 mana plus 2 life. So there's no bug...
I think you are mistaken for which land I used. Workshop taps for 3 mana. I was trying to pay 3 plus 2 life.
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This is garb Vintage is a S show.
Sorry for the salt you had to endure, but yeah it's great content when sped up hahah.
Oh yeah vintage, the format where you get to spend a lifetime worth of savings just to get to go second and getting otkd in turn 1
I love how some edh cards break formats vaiability.
this is nuts
can you make a deck with training grounds for modern pls!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Good.
Idk about Jewel breaking vintage....
I mean, it's Lotus + Recall in one card for basically 3 mana. It's pretty damn good in Vintage. The thing is, Vintage is just broken in general anyway.
@@taylorbates4742 It is a tier 1-ish deck, but there are way more meta defining cards ie. Bazaar, tinker, workshop, oath. That is what's crazy is Jewel is like the 40th best card in this deck haha. Love vintage
Yeah, the title is pretty click-baity. It’s a great deck, no doubt, but it’s not “breaking” anything.
Trintasphere makes everything cost 3. But that 3 is set to 3 so phyrexian mama is different from 1 of any color so that’s why it doesn’t work
Mishra's Workshop taps for 3 mana and he is using it all to cast the spell. This is exactly what Trinisphere wants. Even if Metamorph only cast 1 Phyrexian mana to cast, he could still pay 3 mana with Mishra's Workshop. It doesn't work because it's broken.
tfw its actually just not that good lmao
This format seems like force of Will needs restricted
Kid learns about Lim Dul's Vault
Damn
wow, this youst look stupid from the eyes of a pauper player 😂
In pauper the only T1 kill deck (1-land spy) atleast feels fair since it almost never happens 😂
RagaFuxknVan needs to be banned.