These two together are the most expensive and delicious ketchup and mustard in the store. Gary is the coolest super kind man, comic ever: my 13 son Benny is really having a hard time, my wife, and I took him to see Gary live a month ago, and took time after the show to really speak to Benny, and I kid you not hugged him for at least 2 minutes! It was absolutely priceless.
This was therapeutic for me. As someone with parents extremely similar to Pete and Gary its been a lifelong process in trying to forgive them for their lack of. I know my parents are full of love but the things they say and do dont always reflect it in my mind or heart. I'm only 36 with parents in their 70s but the things these two were saying really hit close to home. A tool I've developed is to consider their definitions of what is love and compassion. The example I use is that a person who was born and raised to think Green=Blue means its a truth to them and its hard to hold things against them when their entire core is skewed. I feel this is same for my hyper critical parents and where Petes "If I was them I would be them" mantra comes into play. Sure, this doesnt excuse them and Gary has every right to feel the way he does but its hard to hold so much against them when their entire belief structure is turned upside down. Depression, addiction to TV, cigarettes etc only hinder the slim possibility of them ever seeing things for what they are which is why I don't hold it too much against them for their inability to look inward and see how their words and actions make me and my brothers feel. They arent equals emotionally as Garys wife said and for me to hold that against them would be the equivalent of me holding a grudge against a child for thinking birds are robots or what have you. Its late on a Saturday and I'm most likely rambling but thank you so much for this episode Pete and Gary. It was therapeutic for me and I'm sure for many others I
I will remember “you’re trying to talk Portuguese to a tennis ball” when my mom comes to town for 3 weeks in November. It will let us both off the hook. Thanks! 🎉
Love Byron Katie, her inquiry work is essential. But there’s more to finding clarity than just inquiry. Once you’ve done the inquiry on the stressful thoughts, you then have access to pure awareness and the body. And the body has boundaries and desires. Those are part of reality. And there are so many unsaid, simple no’s with our parents. That’s what anger is-an unsaid no. Then, what’s your yes? Not seeing them at all? Cool. Once a year? Talking to them for about 10-15 minutes once every couple months? Cool. Whatever is true is what is good (for all).
I'm listening to Gary's book on Audible and I just heard Pete's interview with Rich Roll, so I'm glad to watch and listen to both comedians now. Thanks.
Gulman is my favorite working comedy and top 5 of all time. Ok, now that that's out of the way, PETE, FIX THE PILL BOTTLE BY YOUR WATER! It's on the edge and now so am I.
As one of ten brothers who didn't "fit in" with the others, I get all of this. Love you two! I thought I finally "made it" with my family when I was accepted and matriculated at an Ivy League college (Cornell), only to be derided because they're not a Division I school, of all things! 🤣
Pete, I need you to know that I still go back and listen to old episodes of doug loves movies and I love rewatching everything you do. You bring the world so much joy. I hope you have as much fun doing all this glorious work as I have fun watching and listening. Gary will always be one of my favorite standups as well. All the way back to the In This Economy? days. I still say that crap weekly xD
Awww, I love Gary. I had a mother with NPD. She could love bomb and then change on a dime! Her thing was keeping you off balance and being your 'only one who understands'. I have always related and enjoyed Gary's humor with special regard for the smooth bitterness he slings with ease. He mentions his mother speaking to him about his appearance and it is just my mom, I was supposed to be the twin she wasn't born with. She controlled my look and kept me from cutting my long long hair(that gave me headaches) until I was nearly adult.
When Gary is talking about meeting the new baby with his mom I was laughing at a similar experience. My dad re-married a woman with 2 kids. She and I never really got along. Now, many years later we're having dinner together; my dad, his wife, myself and my wife. My wife brings up the fact that my step-sister is about to have a baby (her first) and asks if she's excited. She (totally deadpan) says, "No, I don't like kids." I nearly choked to death and spit all over myself.
You are two of my favourites so far in this millenium😊❣️ I've studied comedy, read every book I could find from the library on it, and my brothers both tried standup. I love Lenny amd Mort Sahl. My first comedy albums were Bob Newhart and Allen Sherman and Bill Cosby (b4 We Found Out...) I'm not funny. I'm a good actress, grew upnin theatre, but the funny ones in my family are my dad and brothers. I can keep up and get the jokes and occasionally slide one in, but mostly I just appreciate. So watching 2 favourite comics talking about process is heaven❣️❣️❣️ I'm 70, Jewish in Txxzz, and in a nursinghome after being homeless for a few years. Nutses keep coming in to see if I'm ok, and they're all new, and I have to explain I'm here from poverty, my mind works really well 🤷🏽♀️ I've been watching Gary clips for 3 hours😅 (I did a few days of deep dive on Pete a few months ago) I love Smart comedy, and ot keeps me sane in a bleak world. Bless you both❣️😄👍🏽👏🏾❣️😘 P.S. Re: baseball tees....There are no training wheels for StandUp!
You should also get that Rick Rubin book they reference, it's excellent. There's an interview on the show "People I (Mostly) Admire" with Rubin, which is also excellent.
Not to be antagonistic, but just so you know, Gary, we came to see YOU at the comedy cellar and we loved EVERY DANG MINUTE of your earnest, intelligent, sincere wit. It’s a small room, so we didn’t want to get too insane about ya, but there were some laughs in that cellar that were 100% laughing the way you hoped. Love your comedy, Gary! (And yours too, Pete!) Always excited for more. Keep it comin’!
Gary, fucking THANK you!! I love that you support Pete so much but that you call him on his BS too. If my family treated me even 50% of the time like Pete describes how his treats him, I would be out of there. Hold people accountable for what they've done to you! Anything less is what's "being a pussy." Stand up for yourself when people are shitty to you, regardless of whether that's a stranger on the street your own parent(s). As a kid it might be entirely necessary self-preservation to not say anything when they hurt you, but once you move out and have your own place and income, there's no reason to keep taking shit. And that doesn't mean ya need to hate your parents or go on a rant at them or tell them they were terrible because they fucked you up, but it does mean get therapy from someone specializing in childhood trauma, read GOOD self-help books to understand your brain's mechanisms of defending and apologizing for (and to, in Pete's case) people who did not and DO not understand the assignment of being a parent, and tell them that you don't have room/energy/time/etc. in your life for people who treat you like shit. And if they don't make any attempts to make amends, apologize, change for the better, etc. then GTFO. You can quit a terrible job or leave a terrible romantic relationship... well guess what, you can quit a terrible family too if need be. Pete is literally my absolute favourite standup comic ever and makes em laugh and think like nobody else, but Pete comes off an apologist for his parents' behaviours, and that's not exactly inspiring to people like myself who were physically and emotionally abused as kids. As a dad himself now, all Pete has to do is ask himself if he would ever treat his daughter like his dad treated him growing up. If the answer is not just "no," but "fuck no!" then I think a line in the sand of sorts needs to be drawn between him and his parents, not least for self-preservation. If mushroom trips and reading sagacious spiritualists hasn't allowed Pete to get to that point, I feel like he may be too codependent to see his relationship with his parents objectively; that is, they see him as an extension of themselves and Pete (at least somewhat) still sees himself as an extension of his parents. This is detrimental thinking to one's psyche. Again, ya don't have to hold on to anger, and arguably you shouldn't, but that doesn't mean forgive someone who hasn't asked forgiveness or made amends for past behaviours (and who continues the same harmful behaviours in the present), and it DEFINITELY doesn't mean continue subjecting yourself to that person/those people. For the sake of argument, let's assume Pete's dad is for some reason truly incapable of self-improvement as Pete implies: even if I don't think it's the grizzly bear's fault that it mauled me when I was down in the bear pit with it, once I finally managed to climb out and heal my wounds, I'm not going to jump back in with the bear! There's a sort of stockholmes (sorry lol) syndrome going on here and it's very obvious to Gary in this interview. I'll end just by adding that I love you, Pete, if you ever read this, and that you've been conditioned by your upbringing to not see that you deserve better than you think you do. I am a better dad for and to my daughter because I stopped taking shit from my parents, and I suspect the same would be true for you. You say "if I were them I would be them" but I think you should relisten more openly to Gary's counterpoint about not making excuses for a different time. William Wordsworth was writing anti-slavery poems while even England (not to mention the US, France, Belgium, and other countries) were actively participating in the slave trade. Even while it was "culturally acceptable" to benefit from slave labour or own slaves, lots of white people still recognized that it was fucked up. What's my point? Well, that there are dads of your dads age in the Boston area with similar lived experiences, maybe even similar jobs etc., but who raised their kids in a very different way. Not everyone became a standup comic, is my evidence for that. It seems crazy to say out loud but there are some very well-adjusted Bostonians of your age. It might help you remain at peace temporarily, but it simply is not true that "if you were them you would be them." You are something special and in every scenario we have multiple options to take. Lots of people just take the easiest (i.e. laziest) route - but not everyone does. Some folks do put in the emotionally difficult work and are better parents/partners/people/etc. for it.
Can someone who is not from LA tell me if Ram Das is good? It sounds like "my guru said" to me, but I don't want to miss out on something worth reading because of my own preconceived notions
Gary Gulman came to Ithaca, NY, a small intimate venue, like 200 people. So I was so excited, I thought it would be like a private show, maybe he would talk with the audience, idk something different than a big arena show. My partner and I drove the hour to get there and had a beautiful evening. Then the show started….the opener just came out and was just ok. Ok, I was patient and they brought out Gary. Gary came out and was pissed about something that happened behind the scenes and berated the staff for 10 mins…he was so loud and angry, he insulted the venue, and the audience. It was so uncomfortable! It really soured the rest of the set..I sat and listened, his pop tart bit was good. But most of his bits were about religion, which I felt was odd. That could just be my preference. I ended up walking out before his set was over. I’ve seen many comedians, and that was the worst show I’ve seen. Maybe gary just had a bad night, but I just want him to know that was unprofessional to yell at the venue and take out your anger on the audience. Do your set, and then scream at the venue. Leave the audience out of it. Sorry to be negative, but Gary should know.
Suggestion: an episode where you interview your Batman - a psychological deep-dive into his traumas, anxieties and fetishes - and take the whole thing seriously. lol
It's interesting that both of these men are gigantically tall but they look normal next to each other. Introduce a 5'8" person into this equation and they would look like giants.
Gary Gulman is the lack of a tattoo sleeve of comedy. Meanwhile Gen Alpha sees their parents getting bored with their choices and spending bungloads to "correct" them, and going, hmm, what if I don't get tattoos. How extreme would that be? I'll be a rebel.
These two together are the most expensive and delicious ketchup and mustard in the store. Gary is the coolest super kind man, comic ever: my 13 son Benny is really having a hard time, my wife, and I took him to see Gary live a month ago, and took time after the show to really speak to Benny, and I kid you not hugged him for at least 2 minutes! It was absolutely priceless.
i love your ketchup and mustard comparison! :)
Gary is just the absolute best. A hero to all us sensitive boiz
I cannot tell you how much I needed this today. Love you, Pete and Gary!
Why do I have the strange urge to cry everytime Gary talks about something 😂
Because he is so real, we know he's vulnerable, and we empathise?
Gary is the best. Just the best. How quick his wit, and how quick he is at defending his friend? Well-rounded individual.
Starts at 5:52
This was therapeutic for me. As someone with parents extremely similar to Pete and Gary its been a lifelong process in trying to forgive them for their lack of. I know my parents are full of love but the things they say and do dont always reflect it in my mind or heart. I'm only 36 with parents in their 70s but the things these two were saying really hit close to home. A tool I've developed is to consider their definitions of what is love and compassion. The example I use is that a person who was born and raised to think Green=Blue means its a truth to them and its hard to hold things against them when their entire core is skewed. I feel this is same for my hyper critical parents and where Petes "If I was them I would be them" mantra comes into play. Sure, this doesnt excuse them and Gary has every right to feel the way he does but its hard to hold so much against them when their entire belief structure is turned upside down. Depression, addiction to TV, cigarettes etc only hinder the slim possibility of them ever seeing things for what they are which is why I don't hold it too much against them for their inability to look inward and see how their words and actions make me and my brothers feel. They arent equals emotionally as Garys wife said and for me to hold that against them would be the equivalent of me holding a grudge against a child for thinking birds are robots or what have you. Its late on a Saturday and I'm most likely rambling but thank you so much for this episode Pete and Gary. It was therapeutic for me and I'm sure for many others
I
I will remember “you’re trying to talk Portuguese to a tennis ball” when my mom comes to town for 3 weeks in November. It will let us both off the hook. Thanks! 🎉
“It only ADDS UP, if you add it up.” 😂😂
Get a load of these two tall sweeties!
Love Byron Katie, her inquiry work is essential. But there’s more to finding clarity than just inquiry. Once you’ve done the inquiry on the stressful thoughts, you then have access to pure awareness and the body. And the body has boundaries and desires. Those are part of reality. And there are so many unsaid, simple no’s with our parents. That’s what anger is-an unsaid no. Then, what’s your yes? Not seeing them at all? Cool. Once a year? Talking to them for about 10-15 minutes once every couple months? Cool. Whatever is true is what is good (for all).
I'm listening to Gary's book on Audible and I just heard Pete's interview with Rich Roll, so I'm glad to watch and listen to both comedians now. Thanks.
Gulman!!!! Always kills, and is just so classic
Gulman is my favorite working comedy and top 5 of all time.
Ok, now that that's out of the way, PETE, FIX THE PILL BOTTLE BY YOUR WATER!
It's on the edge and now so am I.
As one of ten brothers who didn't "fit in" with the others, I get all of this. Love you two! I thought I finally "made it" with my family when I was accepted and matriculated at an Ivy League college (Cornell), only to be derided because they're not a Division I school, of all things! 🤣
Love the Gul! His Hierarchy of Cookies bit is hilarious.
Pete, I need you to know that I still go back and listen to old episodes of doug loves movies and I love rewatching everything you do. You bring the world so much joy. I hope you have as much fun doing all this glorious work as I have fun watching and listening.
Gary will always be one of my favorite standups as well. All the way back to the In This Economy? days. I still say that crap weekly xD
Awww, I love Gary. I had a mother with NPD. She could love bomb and then change on a dime! Her thing was keeping you off balance and being your 'only one who understands'. I have always related and enjoyed Gary's humor with special regard for the smooth bitterness he slings with ease. He mentions his mother speaking to him about his appearance and it is just my mom, I was supposed to be the twin she wasn't born with. She controlled my look and kept me from cutting my long long hair(that gave me headaches) until I was nearly adult.
When Gary is talking about meeting the new baby with his mom I was laughing at a similar experience. My dad re-married a woman with 2 kids. She and I never really got along. Now, many years later we're having dinner together; my dad, his wife, myself and my wife. My wife brings up the fact that my step-sister is about to have a baby (her first) and asks if she's excited. She (totally deadpan) says, "No, I don't like kids." I nearly choked to death and spit all over myself.
Is there AUDIOBOOK IN GARYS VOICE?
You have the best Batman voice since Keaton!!! We need more of those please! :^)))
Crying laughing. Two of my favorite people. Thank you!
as someone who grew up in MA, these parent stories hit SO CLOSE to home haha
My two favorite comics having a glorious chat. What a treat!
Free Vidcast neé Podcast, Y'all! Thanks, as ever, Pete! Gary is phenomenal! All the exclamation points!!!
You are two of my favourites so far in this millenium😊❣️
I've studied comedy, read every book I could find from the library on it, and my brothers both tried standup.
I love Lenny amd Mort Sahl.
My first comedy albums were Bob Newhart and Allen Sherman and Bill Cosby (b4 We Found Out...)
I'm not funny. I'm a good actress, grew upnin theatre, but the funny ones in my family are my dad and brothers. I can keep up and get the jokes and occasionally slide one in, but mostly I just appreciate.
So watching 2 favourite comics talking about process is heaven❣️❣️❣️
I'm 70, Jewish in Txxzz, and in a nursinghome after being homeless for a few years.
Nutses keep coming in to see if I'm ok, and they're all new, and I have to explain I'm here from poverty, my mind works really well 🤷🏽♀️
I've been watching Gary clips for 3 hours😅 (I did a few days of deep dive on Pete a few months ago)
I love Smart comedy, and ot keeps me sane in a bleak world.
Bless you both❣️😄👍🏽👏🏾❣️😘
P.S.
Re: baseball tees....There are no training wheels for StandUp!
More. Gary Gulman.
Anyone else absolutely love it when Pete does an impression of his dad lol?
These guys are incredibly funny. With that being said, they also must be the most exhausting family members 😂😂😂
most comedians are. They can't help but see absurdities and humor in almost everything.
"Daniel Tiger is a harbinger of death" "Sir this is a Wendy's"
I'm getting that book.
You should also get that Rick Rubin book they reference, it's excellent. There's an interview on the show "People I (Mostly) Admire" with Rubin, which is also excellent.
Truly love Gary! Misfit is great!
I'm kind of new to both you guys, but have to say I really enjoyed this conversation. Thanks for being cool!
Not to be antagonistic, but just so you know, Gary, we came to see YOU at the comedy cellar and we loved EVERY DANG MINUTE of your earnest, intelligent, sincere wit. It’s a small room, so we didn’t want to get too insane about ya, but there were some laughs in that cellar that were 100% laughing the way you hoped. Love your comedy, Gary! (And yours too, Pete!) Always excited for more. Keep it comin’!
Did not expect Pete Holmes to drop knowledge of a harmonium. Lovely instrument.
When you gonna have Billy Burr on, I’d love to see him on here
Really needed to hear this today, grateful for this podcast.
I loved both of your books! I'd love book recommendations from other of you! Seriously.
Gary is a breathe of fresh air on a perfect fall day
Gary, fucking THANK you!! I love that you support Pete so much but that you call him on his BS too. If my family treated me even 50% of the time like Pete describes how his treats him, I would be out of there. Hold people accountable for what they've done to you! Anything less is what's "being a pussy." Stand up for yourself when people are shitty to you, regardless of whether that's a stranger on the street your own parent(s). As a kid it might be entirely necessary self-preservation to not say anything when they hurt you, but once you move out and have your own place and income, there's no reason to keep taking shit. And that doesn't mean ya need to hate your parents or go on a rant at them or tell them they were terrible because they fucked you up, but it does mean get therapy from someone specializing in childhood trauma, read GOOD self-help books to understand your brain's mechanisms of defending and apologizing for (and to, in Pete's case) people who did not and DO not understand the assignment of being a parent, and tell them that you don't have room/energy/time/etc. in your life for people who treat you like shit. And if they don't make any attempts to make amends, apologize, change for the better, etc. then GTFO. You can quit a terrible job or leave a terrible romantic relationship... well guess what, you can quit a terrible family too if need be. Pete is literally my absolute favourite standup comic ever and makes em laugh and think like nobody else, but Pete comes off an apologist for his parents' behaviours, and that's not exactly inspiring to people like myself who were physically and emotionally abused as kids. As a dad himself now, all Pete has to do is ask himself if he would ever treat his daughter like his dad treated him growing up. If the answer is not just "no," but "fuck no!" then I think a line in the sand of sorts needs to be drawn between him and his parents, not least for self-preservation. If mushroom trips and reading sagacious spiritualists hasn't allowed Pete to get to that point, I feel like he may be too codependent to see his relationship with his parents objectively; that is, they see him as an extension of themselves and Pete (at least somewhat) still sees himself as an extension of his parents. This is detrimental thinking to one's psyche. Again, ya don't have to hold on to anger, and arguably you shouldn't, but that doesn't mean forgive someone who hasn't asked forgiveness or made amends for past behaviours (and who continues the same harmful behaviours in the present), and it DEFINITELY doesn't mean continue subjecting yourself to that person/those people. For the sake of argument, let's assume Pete's dad is for some reason truly incapable of self-improvement as Pete implies: even if I don't think it's the grizzly bear's fault that it mauled me when I was down in the bear pit with it, once I finally managed to climb out and heal my wounds, I'm not going to jump back in with the bear! There's a sort of stockholmes (sorry lol) syndrome going on here and it's very obvious to Gary in this interview. I'll end just by adding that I love you, Pete, if you ever read this, and that you've been conditioned by your upbringing to not see that you deserve better than you think you do. I am a better dad for and to my daughter because I stopped taking shit from my parents, and I suspect the same would be true for you. You say "if I were them I would be them" but I think you should relisten more openly to Gary's counterpoint about not making excuses for a different time. William Wordsworth was writing anti-slavery poems while even England (not to mention the US, France, Belgium, and other countries) were actively participating in the slave trade. Even while it was "culturally acceptable" to benefit from slave labour or own slaves, lots of white people still recognized that it was fucked up. What's my point? Well, that there are dads of your dads age in the Boston area with similar lived experiences, maybe even similar jobs etc., but who raised their kids in a very different way. Not everyone became a standup comic, is my evidence for that. It seems crazy to say out loud but there are some very well-adjusted Bostonians of your age. It might help you remain at peace temporarily, but it simply is not true that "if you were them you would be them." You are something special and in every scenario we have multiple options to take. Lots of people just take the easiest (i.e. laziest) route - but not everyone does. Some folks do put in the emotionally difficult work and are better parents/partners/people/etc. for it.
I feel the same way when reading my book or watching my online course (10 short videos). Always brings tears to my eyes :D
Is that "Paul Revere" by Beastie Boys playing during his intro?
52:56 - It was a good conversation, FOR YOU!
Kind of a Yakov thing. I was not gonna post it but heck... I'm lonely.
Love you guys. I really enjoyed this!
dabbling in compassion. everyone is doing the best they can.
Can someone who is not from LA tell me if Ram Das is good? It sounds like "my guru said" to me, but I don't want to miss out on something worth reading because of my own preconceived notions
Gary Gulman came to Ithaca, NY, a small intimate venue, like 200 people. So I was so excited, I thought it would be like a private show, maybe he would talk with the audience, idk something different than a big arena show. My partner and I drove the hour to get there and had a beautiful evening. Then the show started….the opener just came out and was just ok. Ok, I was patient and they brought out Gary. Gary came out and was pissed about something that happened behind the scenes and berated the staff for 10 mins…he was so loud and angry, he insulted the venue, and the audience. It was so uncomfortable! It really soured the rest of the set..I sat and listened, his pop tart bit was good. But most of his bits were about religion, which I felt was odd. That could just be my preference. I ended up walking out before his set was over. I’ve seen many comedians, and that was the worst show I’ve seen. Maybe gary just had a bad night, but I just want him to know that was unprofessional to yell at the venue and take out your anger on the audience. Do your set, and then scream at the venue. Leave the audience out of it. Sorry to be negative, but Gary should know.
I was front row at a STL Helium show...we were very close! No hard pretzels but way too close! 11:38
Human let downs, dibs on band name
Where is Craig Ferguson?
Pete Holmes is a Legend!!!
Keep on keeping man whoooooo!!!
I would love a chris Flemming/gary gulman al pachino watch cast
Modern Mammals…. Such good shampoo! Learned about it here. Thank you!
Heeellllll yeah. Gary Gulman top 5 dead or alive.
I loved the discussion about baseball stats and the spectrum.
censored now?
Gary Gulman! The Goat!
Suggestion: an episode where you interview your Batman - a psychological deep-dive into his traumas, anxieties and fetishes - and take the whole thing seriously. lol
That is the footwear of a man who got married knowing the divorce is maybe a week away
My two favorite people, Pete Holmes and Gary Gulman.
(Full disclosure: I spelled Gary's last name but didn't catch that my phone autocorrected)
Pete, this my be easier to make, but we love your hilarious content of super hero's
I wish I had seen this episode before I became a parent. I did so many things wrong 😔
45:42 excellent reference
Thank you
It's interesting that both of these men are gigantically tall but they look normal next to each other. Introduce a 5'8" person into this equation and they would look like giants.
gulman is one of the GOATs
❤❤❤
The book is SOOO GOOD!
"It sounds much nicer in Latin" 😄😄😄😄😄😄😄
Does anyone know what shoes Gary has on?
They look like blue Tatum 1's.
@@LegNinethanks man, I did end up finding them. They're definitely the tatum 1 denim
GG is a good guy
Who's the publishah?
You need to get the suckmaster Dan Cummins for an interview on here!
This interview got the bad taste of Rainn's out of my mouth lol... freaking love Gary!
Carlin had a solid career going before he decided to risk it all and be his true self.
Not having it!
Most pretentious guy I ever knew was a fan of Ram Dass. I pronounced it "Rammed Ass", which vexed him to no end. We are no longer friends.
Gary Gulman is the lack of a tattoo sleeve of comedy.
Meanwhile Gen Alpha sees their parents getting bored with their choices and spending bungloads to "correct" them, and going, hmm, what if I don't get tattoos. How extreme would that be? I'll be a rebel.
PIERCE, I CANT SEE YOUR EARS PIERCE! Your hair is so long
Here for Gary Gilman, not this obnoxious podcast host.
Yet another ruined podcast. Censored = unsubscribed
It's just the first ten minutes. What Josh Potter calls the Nice Boy Clock.
Ooooo,