Not only do modern panels negate a lot of the need for optimizers, but with the Powerwall3, you can split the panels into multiple strings, 6 per powerwall, so you can isolate the panels that are going to get shaded in your example. I just had two PW3s installed and removed my SolarEdge inverter as well as the microinverters on a separate older 10-panel system. Removed a lot of equipment and using the Tesla Backup Switch, I have whole house backup as well as backing up my separate workshop. I'll probably add more panels and the add-on batteries when they come online.
Good video Dale! Very insightful as always. Would you ever consider using the SE Indop with a powerwall DC coupled for a moderately shaded site like this? That $5k difference could likely cover it then you get all your optimizer and monitoring advantages with the higher backup battery output.
The Powerwall 3 supports up to 20kW of DC solar energy, I recommend a maximum AC:DC ratio of 150%. Which means you multiply the inverters AC rating (11.5 for PW3) by 1.5 times and that gives you 17.25kW which would be the max I’d recommend due to energy loss from clipping.
You can with the Tesla Gateway but you are doing multiple conversion. I got rid of my SolarEdge inverter, which failed twice over 7 years, and using the built in inverter in my two new PW3. All the optimizers were removed from my panels. I'm using the Tesla Backup Switch. No extra gateways or panels. Just one shutdown button, not even separate shutdowns for the powerwalls.
Here is the link to the program metrics and the available funds: www.selfgenca.com/home/program_metrics/ San Diego Gas and Electric is CSE on the list and they appear to have ~$14M available in funds. The state of California added $125M to the program for 2024 and is adding another $200M+ on 2025. So funds are available, the reality is a lot of companies don’t want to bother because it’s a far amount of paperwork.
@@dalerolph They did add funds, but not for “Small Residential Storage” which is the relevant bucket of funds. Once you select “Small Residential Storage” and then look at the CSE column, you will see it is in “Waitlist” status and there are $136,744.23 in funds. The funding has been hovering around that number for a couple years now as reservations fall out and someone from the waitlist moves in. But that wait list is miles long. The money is, for all intents and purposes, gone.
Didn't cover the difference if they're shade involved. Solar Edge produces much more because every panel has an optimizer. Tesla has a string inverter. With Tesla multiple panels will shut down if one of them is shaded
That's not necessarily true, modern solar panel technology has evolved a long way since the SolarEdge Power Optimizer was released. Our software we're using is factoring in shading of the panels with and without a power optimizer. As we demonstrated in the video, the SolarEdge Optimizer did increase annual production but only slightly. This is because of the optimization technology is built into solar panels being manufactured today.
So literally neither are worth the money or the solar arrays to charge them, way too expensive when finally paid for the warranty and equipment will need to be replaced...
'"Yo!!, SHUT!! THE!! HELL!!!!!! UP!!!!!!!!!!, You! SUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HARD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"' The World Should Have [({-- NEVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Even!!!!!!!!! Considered!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! --})] Going Down!/On! The DIRTY!!!!!!!!!/VERY!! HARMFULL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!🏞️🏜️🌅🦦🐠🐟🐡🐟/TOXIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!🏭☢️☣️🤢🤮😩😵💫/😵DEAD•LY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!😵⚰️⚰️🪦🥀🪦 Oil/Gasoline!/Diesel/Fossil Fuel Path!!!"'
At California energy costs either system is very cost effective. Your energy savings will pay back in 4-5 years and lifetime savings as he shows in the charts is >$200000. The solar panels have a 25yr warrantee and should last for 30+ years. The inverters and batteries have a 10yr warrantee and will probably last 15+ years. If/when they do need replaced the labor to replace should not be significant as the panels and electrical infrastructure is already in place. Locally we have net metering and below average electric costs so grid tied systems without battery are almost 10 yr payback and batteries can only be justified for the backup power.
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Not only do modern panels negate a lot of the need for optimizers, but with the Powerwall3, you can split the panels into multiple strings, 6 per powerwall, so you can isolate the panels that are going to get shaded in your example. I just had two PW3s installed and removed my SolarEdge inverter as well as the microinverters on a separate older 10-panel system. Removed a lot of equipment and using the Tesla Backup Switch, I have whole house backup as well as backing up my separate workshop. I'll probably add more panels and the add-on batteries when they come online.
Thank You Dale
Good video Dale! Very insightful as always. Would you ever consider using the SE Indop with a powerwall DC coupled for a moderately shaded site like this? That $5k difference could likely cover it then you get all your optimizer and monitoring advantages with the higher backup battery output.
Does open solar model shade? For this site that might be relevant
Excellent info, thank you! Why would you not go much above 16 kw of panels? Is that limit per battery or the whole system?
The Powerwall 3 supports up to 20kW of DC solar energy, I recommend a maximum AC:DC ratio of 150%. Which means you multiply the inverters AC rating (11.5 for PW3) by 1.5 times and that gives you 17.25kW which would be the max I’d recommend due to energy loss from clipping.
I bought Starlink on line, I could buy a Tesla car on line but the Powerwall I have to go through an installer?
How could your brain possibly be so broken that you compare a home improvement product to a vehicle or a satelite dish 😂
@@mattbrew11 Well you can do a lot more damage with an EV.
@@David-jv3dw based on the way lots of those cars leave the factory, its a great thing that a professional is required for the powewall
Can you pair solar edge optimizers with Powerwall 3?
No, SolarEdge power optimizer only work with SolarEdge products
You can with the Tesla Gateway but you are doing multiple conversion. I got rid of my SolarEdge inverter, which failed twice over 7 years, and using the built in inverter in my two new PW3. All the optimizers were removed from my panels. I'm using the Tesla Backup Switch. No extra gateways or panels. Just one shutdown button, not even separate shutdowns for the powerwalls.
do these work with a SPAN SMART PANEL?
Probably not.
Dale, that state rebate SGIP has run out of money, so says your competitor in San Diego. Is that true?
Here is the link to the program metrics and the available funds: www.selfgenca.com/home/program_metrics/
San Diego Gas and Electric is CSE on the list and they appear to have ~$14M available in funds. The state of California added $125M to the program for 2024 and is adding another $200M+ on 2025. So funds are available, the reality is a lot of companies don’t want to bother because it’s a far amount of paperwork.
@@dalerolph They did add funds, but not for “Small Residential Storage” which is the relevant bucket of funds. Once you select “Small Residential Storage” and then look at the CSE column, you will see it is in “Waitlist” status and there are $136,744.23 in funds. The funding has been hovering around that number for a couple years now as reservations fall out and someone from the waitlist moves in. But that wait list is miles long. The money is, for all intents and purposes, gone.
Didn't cover the difference if they're shade involved. Solar Edge produces much more because every panel has an optimizer. Tesla has a string inverter. With Tesla multiple panels will shut down if one of them is shaded
That's not necessarily true, modern solar panel technology has evolved a long way since the SolarEdge Power Optimizer was released. Our software we're using is factoring in shading of the panels with and without a power optimizer. As we demonstrated in the video, the SolarEdge Optimizer did increase annual production but only slightly. This is because of the optimization technology is built into solar panels being manufactured today.
That’s a lot of shading? 😄 2/3 of my roof is in full shade all day when the oak tree has leaves on it.
A reputable installer would definitely recommend a serious tree trimming lol or if you have the land a ground mount system.
So literally neither are worth the money or the solar arrays to charge them, way too expensive when finally paid for the warranty and equipment will need to be replaced...
'"Yo!!, SHUT!! THE!! HELL!!!!!! UP!!!!!!!!!!, You! SUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HARD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"' The World Should Have [({-- NEVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Even!!!!!!!!! Considered!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! --})] Going Down!/On! The DIRTY!!!!!!!!!/VERY!! HARMFULL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!🏞️🏜️🌅🦦🐠🐟🐡🐟/TOXIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!🏭☢️☣️🤢🤮😩😵💫/😵DEAD•LY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!😵⚰️⚰️🪦🥀🪦 Oil/Gasoline!/Diesel/Fossil Fuel Path!!!"'
At California energy costs either system is very cost effective. Your energy savings will pay back in 4-5 years and lifetime savings as he shows in the charts is >$200000.
The solar panels have a 25yr warrantee and should last for 30+ years. The inverters and batteries have a 10yr warrantee and will probably last 15+ years. If/when they do need replaced the labor to replace should not be significant as the panels and electrical infrastructure is already in place.
Locally we have net metering and below average electric costs so grid tied systems without battery are almost 10 yr payback and batteries can only be justified for the backup power.