I love this geeky number crunching aspect of it. Following NPK I’ve learned a lot about pro chargers but never really understood the difference in sizing snd gearing of them.
Would be interesting to know how much hp it takes to drive each blower for the boost produced. It seems to show us that in the hp per pound of boost. Nice info as usual, thanks for passing it on.
Your motor pers like a little kitten. It is nice to see you using the dyno without trashing the motor. So many of these other guys push and squeeze a motor until either blow up or finishing ready for a rebuild. Anyway, I have been a subscriber for the past few years. I love the design and all the little things you have done that make common sense. Keep it up. Cheers!!
Steve From your point of view Is the power difference lower due to driving the larger compressor ? I mean mass plus the load the extra boost makes Dang wish I had the loot to be a customer
180👍's up Steve Morris thank you again for taking us all along with you today for a great product review and news about it my only question is how much if the connecting rods are made out of titanium I know their cost is about $7 or $8,000 how much for the rest of that great stuff you have bolted to the dyno
Gday. For the 100 peak horse power gain - is the additional boost across the rpm worth it? Is there any issues with say engine life with the additional boost. I know we aren't talking cheap consumer engines but still - just a q. Cheers
I would say that there is something wrong with the engine control system with the green line if it gives less power at lower rev but still has much more pressure!?
I was told that if you was to run 10 psi that no matter what the boost will still be the same 10 psi from 1,000 rpm all the way through the whole rpm range to like 10,000 rpm and they said the only way to control the power at the 60'foot or pull power at half track is to add or take away timing......is this true to what I heard.????
At 8:44 he shows the boost/rpm graph and the boost increases as the rpm increases. I think the drive speed can be changed but not on the fly. The ProCharger RaceDrive design is an exclusive integrated gear drive that's combined with the recently redesigned family of powerful, high-end F3 superchargers. ... “The changeable gear ratios are huge for our racers, and they allow you to change blower speed without disassembling the RaceDrive,” says Werremeyer. I imagine a blow off valve of some sort could be made to dump boost but I really don't know a lot about these monsters.
This is apples to oranges because if I'm not mistaken they also make an F3R-140 and from what a NPK driver said that between the F3R-136 and the new F4X-140 is close to 5-600hp and about 20-25lbs of boost on a 572cid Proline built Procharged Hemi that most of the top NPK driver's are running yes you have a few big cubic inch nitrous engines and a couple turbo cars but there is a mixture of turbo combinations like one BBC turbo car and one big cubic inch SBC and the rest are twin turbo 481x or huge single Hemi cars and maybe one or two twin turbo Hemi cars
Steve is not running them past their max. the NPK cars are pushing them past their max to get that 500hp more. thats why they are breaking almost every race. Hes comparing the 2 spinning them the same speed.
I think a f4x 140 procharger would be better for a hemi and maybe a 481x , and I think a get f3r 136 procharger would be better for a high output Big block Chevy or ford and a smaller cubic inch hemi and a 481x engine
Steve you're awesome but where is your FRESH AIR SUPPLY to the engine intake??? You can see it pulling blowby fumes into the blower. Those 2 puny fans at the back don't get the job done...I've been around a lot of dyno rooms...without fresh uncontaminated intake air repeatability isn't possible...
If you remove the boost "out of the calculation", its really interesting to see the "n/a" power for these two engine setups. Would you like to share your thoughts on the result, Steve? How come the engine with the smallest blower performe that much better "n/a"?
As a guy that was involved in designing turbo systems for Vipers back in the 2010 period, I saw centrifugal superchargers as being useless paperweights. They consistently lost to turbo and NA cars making far less power because they had no area under the curve. I'm curious as to the reason why some select them in the elite drag racing classes vs. Turbos or big cubes/nitrous? Is it a rules advantage? Ease of getting off the line and controllability? Packaging? High stall converter making it less of a big deal? I'm sure there are some good reasons, but coming from a mainly street car viewpoint (where, btw, the turbo sizes weren't so huge as to be hard to light off), I don't see them.
I’m 90% sure the reason they’re becoming popular in the elite racing is the technology advancing faster than rules. Pro Mod, Radial, NPK… they all let these cars stay light while giving huge weight penalties to the turbo cars and also limiting boost in NHRA. And every year for the last few years a new procharger model comes out that makes more power. If they cut the restrictions off the turbo cars they would stomp the field. Especially with lockup converters. For the street i see no benefit to the procharger over a turbo other than ease of installation and packaging.
@@trialbyturbo9106 I kinda figured it had to be something like that. I'd be interested to hear Steve or other expert in the field discuss the pros / cons of the different options, the rules that apply, and why people choose what they do. To disparage my own comments, I'll also add that turbos up front certainly can add to heat in the engine compartment in a way that a centrifugal will never see. We almost always used custom cast iron manifolds and very short up-pipes (or none at all) to both reduce surface area and shorten the gas path as much as possible, but the cars we did with big stainless headers (more race-focused) were furnaces under the hood.
Cory, they 60 ft way faster than a turbo car! That’s basically it! They leave like all other blower & nitrous cars! They are stupid fast to the 60 & 330, which almost always wins the race! They don’t have the back door power of the turbo cars @ all! Especially when NHRA casterated the turbo cars! I believe they are down to something like 35 or 36 psi boost! Max allowed, so where you would normally have the chance to run down the blower & nitrous cars after the 330, you now cannot! Yep it blows! But there are politics to everything! Lyle Barnett actually won 🏆 his first walley last weekend in NHRA! Only because he treed the shit out of his competition! 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻 Finally! Turbo cars haven’t been able to win 🏆 in the last, well a lot of races!
@@brianholcomb6499 Is the 60-foot advantage more a result of lower weight or the ability to better control torque off of the line? Or maybe a combo of both? What are the allowable cubes and boost/nitrous shot for the different combos?
So you're putting a ton more energy into that 9# more boost to get your 100 extra HP, which means the air has to be hotter, less dense. I wonder if adding an intercooler to both would change the difference between them significantly? Can you comment on any difference in manifold air temperature between these two setups?
@@nickb289 good point, though in the plenum the air would still be hot and thin I would think, the area prior to where the methanol is injected. I'm not knowledgeable here, just trying to learn something. :)
Water spray injection/adiabatic cooling is used to increase power in ground based turbine engine power plants. Has this been tried for drag racing applications?
Some will put 2 injectors between the throttle body and plenum to inject methanol into the plenum to cool the air. Scott Taylor's Track Doe has 2 850lb Atomizers
Steve's SMX is way more durable. Hpp Manny and crew took their Proline 481x to Steve and got more hp out of it with Steve's magic and what he does is all about durability and hp, not saying Proline stuff ain't durable but you can't compare to Steve's stuff that run 1200 street miles and 5 seconds1/4 mile time and then goes to Florida untouched makes passes and drives to McDonald's. Now the SMX Steve designed is very similar to the 481x. The SMX intake works on a 481x.
It’s a clearview filter! It is a oil or fuel filter & you could also get a model with a spin on filter on the bottom! When your standing on the throat of your engine they are worth there weight in gold! If you have anything starting to go south in your engine, bearings getting hammered, lifter beginning to fail anything & it will show up in this clearview filter! Then you could either stop & fix it before it gets hurt badly, or your could decide weather to push it for final round, or not! Usually you’ll push it! But if you know somethings on its way out! You normally will try not to run it as much! Push it to the line, short burnout, Hope the other guy red lights, whatever! They are also a life saver if you have a nitrous engine & like to burn up pistons 🙄🙄🙄🙄, it catches a lot of aluminum trash 🗑 that goes everywhere in your engine when you burn one up! Normally everything needs to come apart & be cleaned! Oil system included, with the clearview setup, your could slam pistons in it, clean the clearview & change the spin on if you also have it, & you could go the next round without worrying how bad your oiling system is pumping shit through everything! That’s why you see them on almost everything! Have a good weekend 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸!
The 136 is like $7500, 140 is like $11,000. My guess about the minimal difference in power would be the lack of intercooling considering there was still a big difference in boost.
Thanks again Steve, is there a big cost difference between the two? Like enough to make a guy think? 32, or 33 hundred H.P. will it matter? Is it lighter? less drag? 🤔🤑🥴
One of my friends had that new f4140 hasn’t had a bit of problems with it yet and he has had it about since they came out with them which he had the 136 probably still has it in the shelf he is a procharger guy even runs a f1a 94 on his truck lol I’ve tried to get him to go turbos but he won’t he like that instant power.
It’s pretty mad to think that the power your just messing around with is more than your average 1200-1400cc car here in the UK 😂 wish fuel was cheap enough to have a V8 but £1.58-£1.64 a liter it just don’t make sense to me 😁
Can y’all run the F-3X-140 or is that what this one is? And it’s just labeled wrong, I keep telling those street outlaws idiots that there running there pro-chargers way past spec and that’s why they brake 1 or so a race, they have them overdriven with a rev limiter set around 11k RPM and they hit the rev limiter on the burnout and that’s why the pro-chargers always go all they outta do is get a laser RPM reader bring it up to burnout RPM on pro jack or a dyno and see how fast the impeller is spinning and then under driver or over drive it within spec and they’ll stop breaking but they don’t believe me so oh well, wonder if you can dual these if they were belt driven like you can with the Torque Storm superchargers I need 100psi of boost and I don’t wanna go turbo
What you're not seeing is some of these guys are spinning these things way over 9 thousand rpm like a thousand more then were Steve took them! And those guys are running 70 pounds of boost.
![CAMPปลิ้น | EP.83[2/2] ประสบการณ์ขนหัวลุกจากตำนานวงการผี!](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/T_kFecQw7Ds/mqdefault.jpg)
Good morning everyone hope you all are having a blessed day
Thanks man you too
Thanks you as well
Amazing how cavalier he’s discussing 3000+ HP @ 8250 + RPM as a “safe” . Incredible how far engine building has come.
I love this geeky number crunching aspect of it. Following NPK I’ve learned a lot about pro chargers but never really understood the difference in sizing snd gearing of them.
You make some great horsepower Mr Morris,and I do learn alot from your descriptions on airflow and fuel etc.Lot of experience in a beautiful pkg.
Would be interesting to know how much hp it takes to drive each blower for the boost produced. It seems to show us that in the hp per pound of boost. Nice info as usual, thanks for passing it on.
Your motor pers like a little kitten. It is nice to see you using the dyno without trashing the motor. So many of these other guys push and squeeze a motor until either blow up or finishing ready for a rebuild. Anyway, I have been a subscriber for the past few years. I love the design and all the little things you have done that make common sense. Keep it up. Cheers!!
Very interesting comparison; food for thought as always. Thank you !
Great content thanks for sharing
Steve
From your point of view
Is the power difference lower due to driving the larger compressor ?
I mean mass plus the load the extra boost makes
Dang wish I had the loot to be a customer
Super nice build yet again. If everything was painting the same colour as the valve covers 😍
SMX Power buddy!
Love that.
Be great to see them made a bit more sturdy they seem to break alot definitely a rich mans power adder
180👍's up Steve Morris thank you again for taking us all along with you today for a great product review and news about it my only question is how much if the connecting rods are made out of titanium I know their cost is about $7 or $8,000 how much for the rest of that great stuff you have bolted to the dyno
not often you get too compare these together so a few more comparisons and parameters would be nice. a long detailed comparison would be nice Steve
My dream setup
Looking forward
Only 10HP per additional pound of boost for the 140? What's up with that? I'd be expecting 50HP per pound with that engine.
Gday. For the 100 peak horse power gain - is the additional boost across the rpm worth it? Is there any issues with say engine life with the additional boost. I know we aren't talking cheap consumer engines but still - just a q. Cheers
Boost is amazing 💣
I would say that there is something wrong with the engine control system with the green line if it gives less power at lower rev but still has much more pressure!?
I was told that if you was to run 10 psi that no matter what the boost will still be the same 10 psi from 1,000 rpm all the way through the whole rpm range to like 10,000 rpm and they said the only way to control the power at the 60'foot or pull power at half track is to add or take away timing......is this true to what I heard.????
At 8:44 he shows the boost/rpm graph and the boost increases as the rpm increases. I think the drive speed can be changed but not on the fly.
The ProCharger RaceDrive design is an exclusive integrated gear drive that's combined with the recently redesigned family of powerful, high-end F3 superchargers. ... “The changeable gear ratios are huge for our racers, and they allow you to change blower speed without disassembling the RaceDrive,” says Werremeyer.
I imagine a blow off valve of some sort could be made to dump boost but I really don't know a lot about these monsters.
😳😳😳 wow big dog pushing dam near 400hp per cylinder!!!💪🏾💪🏾💪🏾💪🏾💪🏾💪🏾💪🏾💪🏾👍🏾👍🏾
Is it just me or do both blowers look like they were limited by another engine component, like head flow?
This is apples to oranges because if I'm not mistaken they also make an F3R-140 and from what a NPK driver said that between the F3R-136 and the new F4X-140 is close to 5-600hp and about 20-25lbs of boost on a 572cid Proline built Procharged Hemi that most of the top NPK driver's are running yes you have a few big cubic inch nitrous engines and a couple turbo cars but there is a mixture of turbo combinations like one BBC turbo car and one big cubic inch SBC and the rest are twin turbo 481x or huge single Hemi cars and maybe one or two twin turbo Hemi cars
Steve is not running them past their max. the NPK cars are pushing them past their max to get that 500hp more. thats why they are breaking almost every race. Hes comparing the 2 spinning them the same speed.
Is that an oil line missing off the top of intermediate blower gearbox?
SMX power, buddy.
I'd buy that T.
amazing!
3000hp...... back a few years ago when 1000 was top dog just wow
💪
Bless you
Better send them both to me to be absolutely sure, would hate to give you a wrong answer 😁
I think a f4x 140 procharger would be better for a hemi and maybe a 481x , and I think a get f3r 136 procharger would be better for a high output Big block Chevy or ford and a smaller cubic inch hemi and a 481x engine
F3R makes more power and torque until 6900rpms vs the F4X; does that translate to faster 330' or 1/8th? Or does top end catch em, who knows
At 7000 rpm you are done with the power band. Take the best for 85% of the usable power band
So what I gather is the 136 made more horsepower per pound of boost. The 140 made more boost throughout the curve.
Steve you're awesome but where is your FRESH AIR SUPPLY to the engine intake??? You can see it pulling blowby fumes into the blower. Those 2 puny fans at the back don't get the job done...I've been around a lot of dyno rooms...without fresh uncontaminated intake air repeatability isn't possible...
If you remove the boost "out of the calculation", its really interesting to see the "n/a" power for these two engine setups. Would you like to share your thoughts on the result, Steve? How come the engine with the smallest blower performe that much better "n/a"?
The bigger one pulls more power i think
As a guy that was involved in designing turbo systems for Vipers back in the 2010 period, I saw centrifugal superchargers as being useless paperweights. They consistently lost to turbo and NA cars making far less power because they had no area under the curve. I'm curious as to the reason why some select them in the elite drag racing classes vs. Turbos or big cubes/nitrous? Is it a rules advantage? Ease of getting off the line and controllability? Packaging? High stall converter making it less of a big deal? I'm sure there are some good reasons, but coming from a mainly street car viewpoint (where, btw, the turbo sizes weren't so huge as to be hard to light off), I don't see them.
I’m 90% sure the reason they’re becoming popular in the elite racing is the technology advancing faster than rules. Pro Mod, Radial, NPK… they all let these cars stay light while giving huge weight penalties to the turbo cars and also limiting boost in NHRA. And every year for the last few years a new procharger model comes out that makes more power. If they cut the restrictions off the turbo cars they would stomp the field. Especially with lockup converters. For the street i see no benefit to the procharger over a turbo other than ease of installation and packaging.
@@trialbyturbo9106 I kinda figured it had to be something like that. I'd be interested to hear Steve or other expert in the field discuss the pros / cons of the different options, the rules that apply, and why people choose what they do.
To disparage my own comments, I'll also add that turbos up front certainly can add to heat in the engine compartment in a way that a centrifugal will never see. We almost always used custom cast iron manifolds and very short up-pipes (or none at all) to both reduce surface area and shorten the gas path as much as possible, but the cars we did with big stainless headers (more race-focused) were furnaces under the hood.
Cory, they 60 ft way faster than a turbo car! That’s basically it! They leave like all other blower & nitrous cars! They are stupid fast to the 60 & 330, which almost always wins the race! They don’t have the back door power of the turbo cars @ all! Especially when NHRA casterated the turbo cars! I believe they are down to something like 35 or 36 psi boost! Max allowed, so where you would normally have the chance to run down the blower & nitrous cars after the 330, you now cannot! Yep it blows! But there are politics to everything! Lyle Barnett actually won 🏆 his first walley last weekend in NHRA! Only because he treed the shit out of his competition! 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻 Finally! Turbo cars haven’t been able to win 🏆 in the last, well a lot of races!
@@brianholcomb6499 Is the 60-foot advantage more a result of lower weight or the ability to better control torque off of the line? Or maybe a combo of both? What are the allowable cubes and boost/nitrous shot for the different combos?
@@corystansbury my these are not old types of prochargers things are changing now
How many miles is an engine like this good for?
It would seem this engine likes more boost up high and less boost down low!
It takes hp to turn the bigger blower.
Why does the procharger setup not last very long
Wow, that F4 definitely isn't as efficient! Imagine the same efficiency at those boost numbers!
So you're putting a ton more energy into that 9# more boost to get your 100 extra HP, which means the air has to be hotter, less dense. I wonder if adding an intercooler to both would change the difference between them significantly? Can you comment on any difference in manifold air temperature between these two setups?
Remember it’s a methanol fueled engine, no intercooler is needed.
@@nickb289 good point, though in the plenum the air would still be hot and thin I would think, the area prior to where the methanol is injected. I'm not knowledgeable here, just trying to learn something. :)
Water spray injection/adiabatic cooling is used to increase power in ground based turbine engine power plants. Has this been tried for drag racing applications?
Some will put 2 injectors between the throttle body and plenum to inject methanol into the plenum to cool the air. Scott Taylor's Track Doe has 2 850lb Atomizers
Could you push a smx harder then a proline deal with the biggest pro charger allowed?
Steve's SMX is way more durable. Hpp Manny and crew took their Proline 481x to Steve and got more hp out of it with Steve's magic and what he does is all about durability and hp, not saying Proline stuff ain't durable but you can't compare to Steve's stuff that run 1200 street miles and 5 seconds1/4 mile time and then goes to Florida untouched makes passes and drives to McDonald's. Now the SMX Steve designed is very similar to the 481x. The SMX intake works on a 481x.
What’s the oil filter housing ? Keep seeing it on numerous peoples builds
It’s a clearview filter! It is a oil or fuel filter & you could also get a model with a spin on filter on the bottom! When your standing on the throat of your engine they are worth there weight in gold! If you have anything starting to go south in your engine, bearings getting hammered, lifter beginning to fail anything & it will show up in this clearview filter! Then you could either stop & fix it before it gets hurt badly, or your could decide weather to push it for final round, or not! Usually you’ll push it! But if you know somethings on its way out! You normally will try not to run it as much! Push it to the line, short burnout, Hope the other guy red lights, whatever! They are also a life saver if you have a nitrous engine & like to burn up pistons 🙄🙄🙄🙄, it catches a lot of aluminum trash 🗑 that goes everywhere in your engine when you burn one up! Normally everything needs to come apart & be cleaned! Oil system included, with the clearview setup, your could slam pistons in it, clean the clearview & change the spin on if you also have it, & you could go the next round without worrying how bad your oiling system is pumping shit through everything! That’s why you see them on almost everything! Have a good weekend 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸!
@@brianholcomb6499 thanks for reply but now I’m skint 🤦🏼
What's there much of a price difference between the blowers?
The 136 is like $7500, 140 is like $11,000. My guess about the minimal difference in power would be the lack of intercooling considering there was still a big difference in boost.
Looks like it takes a lot more power to turn the 140
Thanks again Steve, is there a big cost difference between the two? Like enough to make a guy think? 32, or 33 hundred H.P. will it matter? Is it lighter? less drag? 🤔🤑🥴
You'll really notice that missing hundred horsepower when merging onto the highway!
That needs to be turning a gigawatt generator
The f9xR is the one you want to get !!! Thank me later 🙌🏻
breathing is not a tune issue at all. its a head sealing or ring gap issue plain and simple
One of my friends had that new f4140 hasn’t had a bit of problems with it yet and he has had it about since they came out with them which he had the 136 probably still has it in the shelf he is a procharger guy even runs a f1a 94 on his truck lol I’ve tried to get him to go turbos but he won’t he like that instant power.
What car does an engine like this go into
No Prep, RVW, Pro Modified type car.
I'd be worried if I was in your line of work with all the bans around the corner
He builds engines for tube chassis cars that are never made to be driven on the street.
@@joshr8680 They are trying to ban Motorsports
It’s pretty mad to think that the power your just messing around with is more than your average 1200-1400cc car here in the UK 😂 wish fuel was cheap enough to have a V8 but £1.58-£1.64 a liter it just don’t make sense to me 😁
The No prep CARS seem to break them a LOT
A bunch of them over spin them so they won’t stay together very long like that. Your bound to have problems like that
So 100hp difference. On a 481x
Velocity + air temperature = hp
watch the fuel level bubble....
Can y’all run the F-3X-140 or is that what this one is? And it’s just labeled wrong, I keep telling those street outlaws idiots that there running there pro-chargers way past spec and that’s why they brake 1 or so a race, they have them overdriven with a rev limiter set around 11k RPM and they hit the rev limiter on the burnout and that’s why the pro-chargers always go all they outta do is get a laser RPM reader bring it up to burnout RPM on pro jack or a dyno and see how fast the impeller is spinning and then under driver or over drive it within spec and they’ll stop breaking but they don’t believe me so oh well, wonder if you can dual these if they were belt driven like you can with the Torque Storm superchargers I need 100psi of boost and I don’t wanna go turbo
What you're not seeing is some of these guys are spinning these things way over 9 thousand rpm like a thousand more then were Steve took them! And those guys are running 70 pounds of boost.
3100hp wtf does this motor go in 😂
Ask Bill Clinton.
Develsixteen
?