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Don’t Use DOT 5 Brake Fluid On Your Motorcycle
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 ส.ค. 2024
- If your motorcycle brakes feel spongy it might be time to change your brake fluid. So here's everything you need to know about brake fluid.
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📖 CHAPTERS
0:00 Don't Use DOT 5
0:37 Brake Fluids Purpose
0:54 Boiling Point
1:48 Outdated DOT 3
2:06 Glycol-Based Brake Fluid
2:29 Silicon-Based Brake Fluid
2:39 The Truth About DOT 5
3:38 What To Use
3:46 Can You Mix Brake Fluid?
4:12 Good Brake Fluid Practices
"Share this video with a friend who still has drum brakes" 🤣
I am the friend who still has drum brakes. Thanks for sharing
I also own a bike with drums. Thanks.
yeah I don't know why I watched this. I don't have such worries as break fluid xD
@@melvin3509 no hydraulic assist, must have cable operated brakes
Make next video on How to replace Blinker Fluid
Dot 5.1 is the most hygroscopic and therefore needs to be changed the most often. And Dot 4 is fine for the vast majority of riders because your brakes don't get that hot under normal use. You aren't going to cook your brake fluid doing a hard stop on the highway when a car pulls out in front of you. You need to be doing lots of heavy braking regularly (like on a track) to heat the brake fluid up enough to boil it. Finally, up until their boiling point, there is no difference in performance. If your brakes suddenly feel better after changing from 1 type to another that's purely due to the bleeding process and having fresh fluid in there, not the type of fluid you use.
great explanation. that's what I'm trying to tell people who ask me about 5.1. they think it is something like magic :D
DOT 5.1 is a synthetic glycol fluid that is less affected by water molecules. Both the dry and the wet boiling points are higher than the other genuine glycol based fluids so that it is likely to outperform them, other than when the DOT3 or 4 is brand new and the DOT5.1 is used and wetted.
Other than in pure racing conditions, bike brakes run cooler than car/truck brakes so that the higher temperature rated fluid is better suited to cars and trucks.
Not owning any bikes with ABS, I LOVE Dot 5. The piece of mind that none of my fluid has gone bad or corroded my components/turned to sludge far outweighs any minor performance loses from perceived lever feel.
Ah yes...I learned the hard way that DOT 5 and DOT 5.1 are different and incompatible... I bought a Harley sportster and went to change the brake fluid (it calls for DOT 5)... I couldn't find and DOT 5 at the auto parts store so I bought DOT5.1 instead, thinking it must just be a better version of 5.
Well... I was having a hell of a time "bleeding" the system after installing the 5.1... turns out I blew the master cylinder in the process. So one Harley master cylinder later, I learned the difference between 5 and all the others.
Removing the seal completely instead of punching two holes in it at 04:18 made me cry a little 🥲
Wait really people do for little holes I didn't know
Yes, yes, yes 🙂
why?
My dad did this and I always thought it was unnecessary. He always does this even to engine oil which I feel is a bit pointless.
The holes routine is because it allows air in one hole and fluid from the other at similar speed avoiding "glug glug" air bubbles.
Awesome video. Nice format and very informative. Well done.
Cool video!! Keep them coming man
Beautifully explained sir !
The whole video is quite informative about brake fluids in general, and the title is basically a TL;DR. Absolutely love your work!
Keep up the good vids, CC!
I recently overhauled the front brake of my XT 350, which seemed to have everything original from the late 80’s and probably still had the original DOT3 fluid as well. Used DOT4 and it works fine. The rear is drum brake and it’s perfectly capable of having enough friction for braking very hard, without having to ever need to replace any fluid.
Thanks you! Very useful information
Having used DOT5 in one of my bikes for quite a few years, the only drawback I am aware of is that you had better make very certain the system has been thoroughly drained before putting it in if there was a glycol-based fluid in there earlier as they do not mix. Perhaps things are different with the higher-end ABS systems on bikes these days, but brake feel and performance haven't been affected in my older bike that has the DOT5.
On one of my pieces of construction equipment, I replaced the DOT 3/4 fluid with 5, after draining. Residual 3/4 gummed up things, but I re-flushed the system again with fresh 5, and it's been holding up great for the many years since.
Honestly, I'm going to give dot 5 a try.
The Cb400t (1978) in the garage doesn't know what ABS is, and it stands most of the time.
Oh, and the honda's manual says it wants Dot 2. 🤔
What is the outcome of your experiment with DOT 5 in the bike? System which has been designed for DOT 2 is no way compatible with DOT 3, 4 or 5.1 - seals will swell quickly. DOT 5 seems like an option so I'd like to hear the results of your story. Thanks
Thanks for an informative video 👏👏👏
Well done. Thought I had brake fluid pretty much figured out, but I still learned some stuff 👍🏻
we need to develop new brake hydraulic systems that only use water to do the job ...
I used a Dot 4 break fluid manufactured in 2003 which is about 20 years old in my Gixxer and it still works great
Very cool. Another very informative video. 😎👍
Dude.. i'm from Brazil, and i gotta say, i just loooove your videos, even the short ones... i used to own a mt-07, but i had to sell it, unfortunately... i'm hope someday i can get a gorgeous mt-09 like yours...
I went to a Harley dealer in Spain and asked for DOT5 as required. They sold me DOT4, I challenged this and the service manager said it was correct. I asked for the dealer owner and expressed my concern . On examination the service dept. had never ordered DOT5 and this was used on all Harley bikes before 2004. They had to recall all bikes that had their brakes worked on and sack the manager.
Very useful info.
Always check the manufacture date on the bottle. Especially if it's in a plastic bottle. Don't bother using it if it's more than a year old as it's already partially contaminated, even if it's never been opened. Brake fluid will draw moister out of the air even through the plastic bottle and if the bottle is sitting on a shelf where it's exposed to sunlight it'll cause it to breakdown even faster. If you can, always get brake fluid in a metal bottle. If you have out dated brake fluid and don't know what to do with it, it makes for a very effective weed killer ;} but, you should really consider taking it to a proper disposal facility. Brake fluid has copper in solution as one of it's ingredients. That's why old or overheated brake fluid has a greenish color. As the copper solution corrodes (breaks down) it comes out of suspension. If you've ever seen an old copper pipe that has green corrosion on it, you'll get the idea. The copper is what gives the solution it's high heat handling property. Glycol in and of itself actually has a lower boiling point than water.
I used a Dot 4 break fluid manufactured in 2003 which is about 20 years old in my Gixxer and it still works great.
@@avim4896 Cool. Just because you've gotten lucky so far, doesn't really mean anything.
@@RANDOMNATION907 Well it really does mean something. As age doesn't matter as long as it's well preserved and expiry date is a tactic that these manufacturers use to make you buy their products soon even though the product is well preserved. I found the brake fluid sitting in a dark place for ages without any signs of discoloration as it was clear and transparent, and believe me I live in a humid climate. It's been 3 months of using it and the breaking is solid and it still didn't show any signs of spongy breaking.
@@avim4896 I'm glad you've had a good experience, so far. Have you used any brake fluid test strips to determine the fluids 'state'? It just so happens that I'm a retired Master Certified Tech. I worked for Midas of Alaska as an instructor. I train other techs. Midas does more brake jobs every year than any other 'Brake' Shop. I happen to be an expert on the subject. And, what it means is that you've taken a huge risk with your life and the lives of other motorists over a $5 bottle of brake fluid. Don't cheap out on your brakes. I get it, you want to win this argument. However, you are flat out wrong. Those dates are there to reduce the likelihood of accidents. Midas is a cheap a$$ company. They'll cut corners every where they can. Believe me, I know first hand. But, they don't when it comes to brake fluid. Just think about that for a moment. Have a good day.
Rubbish I have used open bottles of Dot 4 that had already been open for several years , & my brakes were perfect .
Have used dot 5 for many years in all kinds of bikes, cars and pick ups works just fine. Mix it with any other brake fluid no problem. Bike brake levers rock hard.
This video is Justin time. I hate doing brakes as i always make a mess even when i try to be super careful. Some Hel performance braided hoses for my R6 just arrived so i guess I'll have to buy some more dot 4 fluid too 👍
I have drum brakes on my bike but if I see a new Chaos video, I must watch
Hygroscopic is the correct word for the definition that was given. Brake fluid is "hygroscopic" not hydrophilic. Hygroscopic fluids absorb moisture (water) from air. The anti-fog film that some of us use on the inside of our helmet visor is hydrophilic.
That explains why my fluid still looks nice and clear. My 04 sporty roadster has had the same fluid for 4 years lol
For some reason HD used dot5 in that model. Since it doesn’t have ABS; I can upgrade the calipers for better performance. It might be more compressible but I doubt I’ll ever see the limit.
I'm one of these guys who still run drums, you did in fact remind me that I might need to check what my brake shoes are looking like
Always learning
I change my fluid annually since my life literally spends on my brakes. Cheap insurance for a corrosive free properly operating brake system. Also, ABS systems are easily damaged by bad/old fluid. For under $10 per year I keep mine showroom new.
🔴Top tip: if you buy brake fluid online for delivery, let the bottle sit for a day before using as you cannot know what 'shaking' the bottle has been subjected to on it's journey.
Hey man I own a 2022 M1000RR Competition and @2:30 I immediately was drawn to the bike on your shelf! PLEASE TELL ME WHERE YOU OBTAINED THIS AWESOME THING SO I CAN HAVE ONE ON MY DESK!!!! AWESOME INFO VID!
I still have a drum on the back of my cb750 nighthawk but it's 31yro. If the bleed nipple is seized don't use heat to free it unless the caliper is drained of fluid. I've had a flexi pop and spray superheated fluid everywhere
New background? When did you place that there? I don't recall that in the previous videos. I like it.
I got my 250r's wheel's powdercoated bright green back in 2008, at the redesign. It looked terrific -- for a good little while. I did my first brake bleed myself. I didn't know it did anything to colored surfaces... effin' bummer.
That's a good tip about how shaking the container can introduce air bubbles in the fluid. I'd not heard that before. Thanks.
hahaha i always did that before using them...i tot they were like oils and needed to be shaken ..cant tell the performance difference anyway! brakes still work well🐱👍🏿
Top tip: if you buy brake fluid online for delivery, let the bottle sit for a day before using as you cannot know what 'shaking' the bottle has been subjected to on it's journey.
Hey! My car still has drums in the rear... But it's 39 years old. My bikes are all disc. Great video, i never knew what the difference was.
my car is 17 and also has drums on the rear. as for the bike it has cable operated drum breaks
It's hydrophilic (hygroscopic) by design. If that "hydro" isn't bound, pools of water build up at the bottom and boil a lot sooner. The pools are also corrosive spots.
great video man, you from South Africa ,y bru?
Harley has used dot 5 (silicone) fluid in the past. I used dot 5 fluid for many years in my Mazda Miata (non-ABS). It's difficult to source and expensive! I'm currently using it in my Kawasaki KDX.
Been using DOT5 on my two NTV650 with stainless hoses and stainless pistons for years, breaks have never been better. Fit and forget, just clean round the exposed pistons when changing pads. Have put 5 in my abs ST1100, will see how it goes.
DOT 5 is not recommended for ABS systems because it forms bubbles when it becomes agitated.
@@timsharpe3498 Yes, heard it before. But, considering the ABS has never shown itself on either my st1100 or st1300, we'll give it a go. Maybe my braking ability is so dam good?
Miss your building projects
I bought a bike once that used Dot 5, but someone had added Dot 3 or 4 to it. The results looked like coffee grounds in the caliper and brake lines! It caused the caliper to jam and made the brakes smoke like crazy! Had to replace lots of parts.
I mixed DOT 4 and DOT 5 once. The fluid turned to gel after a few months, requiring a complete overhaul of the braking system.
I didn’t know brake fluid was this complicated I thought just pic your favourite brand put it in your brakes and go on with collecting speeding tickets 😅
My mate(who can service a car himself) took his gfs car to their mechanic for a "major" service because her parents always wanted it done by a "professional". He painted on the air filter "change me" and it came back with the same old filter.
Brake hoses plays a big part aswell, doesnt matter if you have a high boiling point brake fluid, but your hoses are low quality, tendency is they might expand and ruin your braking system.
Many years ago, I did some work to the back end of my bike, and when I put it all back together, I managed to cock it up. Took it out for a test ride, and didn't notice the brake was jamming on... until I needed to stomp on it, and nothing happened. No idea how hot the fluid was by that point, but I got some nasty burns from the disk and caliper whilst I was trying to lever the damn thing back off at the roadside.
I installed a high performance break system, master cylinder, lines, and calipers, and am quite happy with the DOT 5 in it. But I only have 100,000 miles on my bike so I might have to wait and see, ride more miles. Maybe I should let it sit like a military vehicle in storage to see some advantages?
There is a compatibility chart which fluid you can use. On modern bikes you use what is written on the reservoirs cap and nothing else, even if some guy on TH-cam tells you that one fluid is better than another. You don't want to find out.
I use dot 5 in my cx500 its ok and I got it in my zzr1100d and its great
My Harley calls for it!
I used dot 5 in my bike specd for dot 3 and it was a disaster. the seals all swelled up and I needed to get the whole system rebuilt. I am not sure of the chemical difference, but clearly my bike was not compatible with dot 5. My bike was a 1982 Yamaha XJ1100. Loved that bike.
Probably the first thing that I learned 15 years ago...
DOT3 is still at any auto part store since those vehicles are still on the road and you generally shouldn’t mix.
You can mix DOT 3, 4 or 5.1. Just not DOT 5
@@Maree_Customs Depends. Many manufacturers specify that you can’t put DOT3 in their DOT4+ vehicles due to the boiling point, and if you need to add DOT4 to a DOT3 vehicle then it’s probably time to flush the brake fluid anyway… like you might even with DOT3 to avoid mixing old/new.
@@emmettturner9452 it's not about boiling point but viscosity, as newer cars use brake fluid for ABS, autonomous braking and traction control purposes wich involves a lot of tiny valves.
Now that was a short, concise amd accurate way to describe different brakr fluids, good one.
thanks for the info but i'm a little bit late to know this because i mixed my brake fluid with old DOT4 with a DOT5. what should i do?
my bike is 16yrs old and almost hit 95,000 km, i never changed the brake fluid before...i only removed the old fluid from the reservoirs and replenish them with fresh dot4 fluid several times
In the states we get valvoline "dot 3/4"
1:02 Seems like people always get fluid and liquids mixed up.
Air and Brake fluid are both fluids. But brake fluid is a “liquid” which defines it as “incompressible”.
Air is a fluid as well, but not a liquid.
I have used DOT 3 in my bikes for years without a problem, because i change fluid when i change motor oil. No one believes me! Wanna start a bar fight? This is ideal.
A correction at 1:00, both liquids and gas are fluids, just that liquids are usually incompressible.
Use dot5 in my first gen klr650 absolutely zero issue
I put 5.0 in a Yamaha FZ after cleaning and rebuilding the brakes. No spongy feeling at all. Would I do it again ? Probably not, if nothing else because of the price.
3&4 only but changing the fluid is pain in the ahole itself. I foked up my wheel paint once.
Depends on your bike my old bike I’m converting to 5 from 4 just because I don’t want it decking the paint
So I do want to use DOT 5 since I don't have abs on my bike.
However, is DOT 5 good for hydraulic clutch?
i learned this the hard way myself..
Why didn't you replace rubber brake hoses with steel braided?
That is very simple to answer: there is no need on a modern machine. There was a time, perhaps 30+ years ago when there was an advantage with braided hoses. With improvements in materials and manufacturing over that time the advantage has reduced to zero. Take a look at some very fast sports cars and you will see they still use rubber hoses - there is a reason for that!
My 2021 z400 says dot3 or 4. I use do 4 and change it every winter.
If i mix dot3 and dot4, does it become dot7? I can turn my old tokico's into superbrakes.😉
Don't know if you actually look at this, but I just recently last month have a front break lock up on me and I went down. Don't remember the accident at all
My Harleys take dot5 and they are 40 yrs old! they came from the factory that way!
Dot 5 cant be used with ABS systems because it will foam during an ABS stop.
Mine says DOT4 for both brakes and clutch.
Pretty sure somebody put 3 in it, as PO said it would lose clutch fluid.
Replaced, bled, put 1000 mi on it, and zero loss...
However, once I replaced the rear pads, now the rear master does nothing... Might have sent crud back into it? Dunno.
Gonna have to pull it apart. Already removed it, already bought a replacement...
Likely the rear brake reservoir cap needs loosening to let some working airspace in? _..it could be_ when you replaced the pads you didn't check or replace the rear brake fluid & somehow removed the air space/amount that allows the fluid to move (affectively locking up the systems action to 'off',
..or the rear brake pistons were/are pushed too deeply &/or off angle/twisted in the piston bores of the rear caliper = locked up, or the rear master cylinder has blown/degrades/corroded its seals.
If lucky it is just the rear pistons being twisted and or dirty, or an airlock in the reservoir, or a badly bled brake line,
..but *I would definitely* consider getting a set of new rear caliper pistons seals, clips etc, carefully taking apart, cleaning, mesuring and examining, then rebuiding the rear brake assemblies, and hopefully the rear master cylinder & its seal(s) are ok too.
If in doubt or unsure, just replace the old seals and brake lines when/where possible (race spec braided lines are suggested - not cheap shit ones from China or PRC-Chinese companies/manufacturers)
Dot 5.1 works in slow speed in street riding
I don't get it the manufacture specked a fluid its listed on caps of all brake fluid containers. It denotes the Dot # that should be used. For motorcycles I swap all brake and clutch fluid once every two years. For my cars I swap fluid when I do any pad or rotor work. Only time I ever did this more often was a bike I used for track duty only. I did fluid after every race weekend and still only used what manufacture had specked.
what about the MOTUL 5.1? Would u recommend it?
I used Motul 5.1 on 2 bikes (2 and 4 years), no problems (interval of 2 years).
It's good to change brake fluid every 6 to 8 months if you live in high humidity area.
DOT 3 is still available everywhere where I live. D
Yeah he said bike shops, but any automotive shop is going to have plenty of DOT 3 (most of the time customers just need some to top it off, so unless they do a full flush in the parking lot they probably won't want to switch to DOT 4 until they or their mechanic do a full drain and flush service).
Diesel klr nice
Use 5.1
owning an old 2 stroke scooter thats a toy. dot 5 sounds liek a good winner. i swapped from 3 to 4 years ago but dot 4 still ate my sight glass for the master cylinder.
TH-cam video title: Don't Use DOT 5 Brake Fluid On Your Motorcycle
My Factory Service Manual: "Use only DOT 5 brake fluid"
yeahhhhhhh I think my factory shop manual knows best.
I use dot 4 on my Duke 200
That's very nice
I am riding a Yamaha FZ16 with rear drum brakes and feel personally attacked! But I have swapped the front master cylinder to a Brembo.
Water dissolves in DOT 4 fluid and will eventually cause corrosion, glycols do not and cannot prevent corrosion. There is never very much water in the system and it tends to be uniformly distributed. DOT 5 silicone, on the other hand is hydrophobic, water and silicone are immiscible, any condensation in the brake system just sits about in droplets, causing corrosion where it sits.
We ended up with glycol based fluid because oil rotted rubber seals and glycol doesn't. But guess what, glycol rots the sort of elastomers that are oil resistant, hence why we got silicones for compatibility.
It's about time we all did a Citroen and use a mineral oil based fluid and engineered the seals to suit. Oil is a good lubricant, prevents corrosion, has a high modulus. Silicones should never have been in the picture.
Most confusingly DOT 5.1 reverted to a glycol base, and is hydrophilic, again.
Horse feathers, have been using DOT 5 in my 1988 Harley since it was new. Have had to rebuild the caliper ZERO times, have had ZERO problems with the brakes in 232K miles.
Just pad changes and did wear out a few rotors over the decades. If your system was not designed for DOT 5, of course do not use it, but ignore this ass if it was.
5.1 is Dot 3/4 on steroids, not the same as DOT 5, not even close. General advice if generally bad advice folks. Who says that? The guy whose been riding +50 years, that's who.
You know what's better than fluid operated brakes? Solid operated brakes!
My bike has drum brakes. 😶
Is there a difference between motorcycle and car brake fluid... If so, what is it please anyone...
No difference. Exact same stuff.
@@CycloneCyd .... Thanks mate..
DOT 5 is best if you don’t have ABS. It also won’t eat your paint.
Why the DOT named these two grades like this is criminal! 5.0 is dangerous in a normal brake system. It is for military or other vehicles that sit for long periods. 5.1 is the best grade of fluid for normal brake systems. That is just stupid. Worse, its dangerous.
Maybe it is ABS that is the problem and not DOT 5
5.1 seems better than dot 4 why performance bike like mt-07 have it ??
Lower cost, plus DOT 4 is more than adequate for the system. Manufacturers would rather have 1 fluid for all their vehicles than 2 or 3 different fluids.
MT-07 is not a real high performance bike, for example my 636 engine has 134 HP stock compared to 73 HP of the 689cc on the MT. That's about 1.98x more power per liter (or roughly 2x the performance per cc). Hence its not really like a real high performance engine, and its not super racing ergonomics (its more of a standard commuter bike), so since you are not usually track racing those (you could, just like you could track race a moped, or I used to race bicycles), then DOT 4 is probably good enough. If its not good enough (just like anything else), change it, redo the whole brake system if you want, put nicer tires, upgrade suspension, whatever you want since its your bike.
Why, why, why did they not give Dot 5 a different destination ? Really ! Dot 5 and Dot 5.1 could it be more confusing for the average consumer ?
Have been using DOT 5.1 for more than 3 years in 2 different motorcycles with SS braded lines. Haven’t faced any issues till this day. Whatsoever
Well that's to be expected since you shouldn't have issues with DOT 4 in 3 years either, its almost like millions of people use it around the world...
@@jakegarrett8109 yeah like personally there was nothing wrong with DOT 4. Never faded or anything. Nor I am a pro in terms of riding to notice small niggles but preferred it anyway just because it was better claimed by journalists 😆
And ofcourse we want thing better
Just use mineral oil 😂
Both liquids and gases are fluids. You appear to be confused about this.
Week after im paint my honda, brake pump seal decided to blew, and destroy my fresh black paintjob 😭
Brake fluid only destroys cellulose paint. Im calling bs
@@Theorangeman. He probably spray painted it, I don't know what spray paint is typically, but I've seen brake fluid "ruin" everything from plastics to OEM paint and spray paint.
I think its like chicken poop, its acidic enough that if you don't clean it off your project it leaves that discolored puddle mark where it was. I had to redo my racing mower paint job because the chickens decided to sit on the coolest thing in the shop to do their business... Gasoline can do it to, but it doesn't sit around as long as chicken poop and unless its constantly dripping (like a slow leak above the pain area), then usually you won't notice, especially if you wipe it off quickly.