Personally I’ve always started the engine, then put my helmet and gloves on, and then ride off. It lets the engine warm up for about 30 seconds and doesn’t waste any time that I wouldn’t have used anyway.
Im a new rider since june 2024, I love it. My whole life has changed since I bought myself a zx-6r, brand new !! I'm glad I found your videos, that way I can keep it as clean as possible !! Keep em coming !! Cheers from Canada
I think people also forget that a lot of lubricated parts don't move at idle. Part of that 'taking it slow' period is warming up your gearbox among other things. You could very well hit the right temp for your engine and then dump wayyy to much power into a still fairly cold gearbox.
Ideally, you'd start riding as soon as you can, but I've got to let mine sit for a short bit typically as it isn't fuel injected and keeping it from stalling is a bit of an issue if it doesn't have a short bit to warm up like that. But, in general, it's best to warm up the bike by gently riding it before doing anything too strenuous.
@@SmallSpoonBrigade a professor once told us in a lecture on combustion engines in university that the heat brought into a engine at idle is so low, that the engine will get more damage from idling without properly heated oil than it takes when you just start rolling around calmly. This was said about car engines when it‘s really cold outside, but maybe it‘s also true for motorcycling temperatures 😁🤷🏼♂️
@@MerBowe the oils are separate yes so for example if you warm your engine up at idle on a rear wheel drive car then none of that heat is getting to the rear differential parts. Your transmission might get a little heat through the block but still won't be up to proper temps. Best to drive and let the whole system warm up together.
Very interesting & helpful although old habits die hard. I think I'd always leave a bike a few minutes to run in & give it a good few miles regardless before giving it any serious throttle. I probably have too much mechanical sympathy but it just feels wrong to abuse an engine imo.
@@samuelalexander8030 True he did, just meant I'd probably always have that routine regardless of the science. I guess it just feels right to me at least, even if it's not strictly necessary.
@@ragerider6283 One failure in all parts, especially the parts that are operating at higher temperature that always and inevitably catches up is called "fatigue failure". Sure the morden manufacturing methods and considerable about of design consideration goes into making sure this doesn't happen before "N" number of working cycles, but you will only find this out after say like 10 to 20 years. It's always a good idea to let the bike sit a while, let it get to somewhat of an ideal operating working temperature so that there's no sudden "thermal strain" in components which leads to small micro fractures and whatever. The Science does say this and it's usually ignored because it doesn't have any immediate effect. And ofcourse there are the tolerances and what not that has its own effects with respect to temperature change.
@@arunvignesh7015 “Micro-fractures” aren’t thermally induced; they’re caused first by metal-to-metal contact before oil-flow and are made worse by heat.
I ride an old Knucklehead. I tuned the carb lean to save money on gas, as my income as a senior is limited. The only drawback, is if I kick start it in March, it needs to idle until at least May to warm up. It coughs, spits and farts more than I do. But, May is a better month to ride it, anyway.
Running lean doesn't only generate a worse combustion that takes more time to warm the engine... It also reduces power output and when the engine is hot, it tends to run hotter. Air/fuel mixture should always be as close to stoichiometric as possible.
My usual method is about a minute of idling, then low RPM cruising until it’s all warmed up. Glad to see others are aware of this as well. One way to think of it is that engine wear is not linear throughout the RPM range. If an engine has a 10,000 RPM redline and will last 5 hours at a constant 10k, it doesn’t mean it will last 10 hours at 5k RPM. Since wear is increased when the engine is cold, and engine wear is exponential with RPM, don’t rev it while it’s cold.
Well in case of 4 stroke engines, once it reaches operating temperature then engine wear does not really happen no matter RPM range, because all the parts have proper oil film and oil flow. As long as you replace the oil often enough, then you can ride it at max RPM all the time.
Agree 100% with this. I will do low rpm riding even with my carbureted bike once it's warm enough to run at half choke. On my EFI bike, I roll it out of the garage, start it, close the door and put on my helmet then go. I think most people who ride have the same ideal scenario that I have for warming up their engine -- I take it easy for the first handful of minutes though town, and by the time I reach the highway, the bike is ready for some revs.
I have always believed it to be healthy to warm any engine up for a minute or two. I have a 2021 Z900 and a 2017 Audi A4 and both of these vehicles rev at about 1200 at idle for about a minute depending on the outside temp. I let them both drop down to the natural idle speed before driving/riding.
A lot of this stuff is from old information before modern tech. Some people still think they need to let the car warm up too and that hasn't been true at least since the 90s. Some places in the US even make it illegal to leave your vehicle idling since all it does is waste gas and add unnecessary pollution.
@@danielkerr4100 that simply isn't true anymore. It was a few decades ago but modern engines don't have the same issues. After 4 minutes it has gone through the same amount engine wearing cycles as if it was double idle for 2 minutes. It's even illegal to let your car ideal for that long in some areas in the US because you don't need to do that anymore. And if what your saying is true when does the engine blow up? My car is at 82k miles now and I've had it from 13k and haven't had any engine issues and I drive it the same in summer and winter and hit it hard once it has warmed up. Do you have any concrete data that backs up those claims because I should see some loss of performance at this point especially since my car is a sports car. Also the more efficient your engine is the less heat it will produce at ideal so that would only intruce more inconsistency with the logic in modern cars.
Also don’t get greedy with the throttle until the tires are warm too! I’m sure you know this, Ari, but some of us don’t or forget! Don’t ask me how I know 😂
@@zupinu2000 when tires are warm braking distance is reduced and traction is increased . You can feel the bike is easier to stop and maneuver..or you can just touch the tire 😂. By the way if you have worn tires you will need a lot more time to reach optimal temperature .With good tires will take few minutes , you can even install a tpms sensor . When tires are warm you will see psi-bar increase .. some even have tire temperature sensor .
@@georgegarcia3182 nah of course not. He doesn’t ride bikes anymore. But he still gives his cars the same treatment. I kept telling him but hey, some people.
Same as a mate who bought an XR600R the same time as me. He warmed his up by doing wheelstands and skids. I started mine and then put on all my riding gear. His was blowing smoke within 6 months. He gave up riding shortly after. Mine was still perfect 10 years later when it was stolen.
Pistons expand when hot. When pistons are cold they rattle more and the skirt hasn't expanded all the way at the bottom of the piston, so the piston is more likely to rock in the bore, and cause piston scuffing. And the connecting rod big end bearing clearance dramatically increases on the crank journals when hot. If you are running a cold engine super hard, there is a chance that you scuff the connecting rod bearings, or worse, damage the crankshaft and spin a bearing. This video was really good, because the most likely scenario is that running a cold engine really hard, when clearances are too tight on certain bearing surfaces, will just lead to accelerated wear.
I ride a z1000 and let it idle for 1-2min then give it a quick idle of extra 500rpm for another 30secs then go but I only commute to work about 5miles away and hardly over 30mph so it’s never pushed hard most of the time anyway and just do the scheduled maintenance recommended.
About 10-30 seconds is usually sufficient just idling, then go easy until the oil and water are up to temp. Also gives you time to get zone in before you thrash 😉
Totally agree! I fire up the bike and check all my lights and controls, put my helmet on, gloves and button up the jacket, that is sufficient time for it to start warming up. By the time I’m ready to roll my temp gauge comes alive and that’s my personal indication that we’re good to go!
Good video. My take is that it comes down to "be reasonable". My routine for carbed bikes is to put on my gear, start the bike on the center stand, or sitting on the bike, then put on by helmet & gloves. On warmer days, or subsequent starts, the idle time is pretty short. On colder days, it may go up to 2-3 minutes. Some of my bikes are more cold-blooded than others. Too short of a warm-up is less than optimal. Too long of a warm-up is less than optimal. Be reasonable with the bike, and it will treat you well.
3 months ago I bought a chinese 110cc 4t bike with 4 gears, before driving Im letting it stationary for 2 or 3 min. to warm up. After that when i start driving the engine is still cold but the gear changes are smooth, the throttle response is better. Now the bike have 5k kilometars on the clock without any problems, Im just loving it :DD Give your bike those 3 min, you wont miss anything and the bike will last much longer
Pretty sound advice and what I habitually do on my Kawasaki Z1000SX / Ninja 1000SX: Start the bike up, then put earplugs, helmet and gloves on while simultaneously running a check that all lights are operating correctly, before mounting and riding 👍
@@captaincrunch72 so I want to keep my hearing. Ear plugs cut out the frequencies for wind noise generated by the helmet and air turbulence. I can still hear the induction sound from the air intake, exhaust tone and pops etc. as well as other cars.
Really helpful info. As a rule of thumb I would always let my bike idle for at least 2 ~ 3 minutes after a cold start with the choke on because when I started riding I had a carburetted CB600F which would run like trash when applying any kind of throttle when cold. But yeah, take it out of the garage, pre flight the bike, turn it on, jacket, helmet, gloves, double check brakes and off I go. I usually baby my bikes until the coolant needle is in the middle or the clutch cover is hot to the touch. Never had any issues.
Idling is pretty stressful to the engine also. You can feel that by vibrations which are usually stronger at idle. My Internal Combustion Engines teacher told me long time ago, that it's better to go gently, than to warm up at idle. You shorten the warmup time if you go, instead of idling and that's better for the engine. At that time fuel injected engines were still pretty rare.
In the manual for my 2022 Harley Road King, it states “The engine should be allowed to run slowly for 15 to 30 seconds. This will allow the engine to warm up and let oil reach all surfaces needing lubrication. Failure to comply can result in engine damage”.
I’ve always warmed up my bike because while it’s warming up , I check all lights indicators and brake lights and horn are working. Plus check the temperature outside and the road surface , creature of habit over 52 years of driving 😊👍👍
It's really good to see a thorough and concise section in the shop manual to address warmup times, etc. I agree that clearances in the machine are optimum within the operating temperature range for the machine. Most modern motorcycle engines are constructed of various dissimilar metals and other materials, including gaskets, that operate in concert when they reach optimum temperature range. Who knows what might be in that engine? Titanium, aluminum, balonium or just plain old pot metal.... Thanks Ari!
You just saved me 10 minutes every day. Before my daily ride to and from work, I would start up my Z900RS, and wait until the revs dropped below 1500, then hit the road. I thought I had to let the oil warm up and circulate through the engine. No more...thank you Ari!
You actually increase wear (slightly) by doing this as your engine warms slower idling vs being ridden. Same advice applies to cars. I've babied my machines and used to do this until someone explained this to me and now I give it a bit to turn over and then just go easy for about 5-7 minutes til I give it the beans. Your thermostat will show higher temps earlier than engine oil so if it says it Warm give it a little more time as your oil is more reflective of your actual engine temp. Btw I love your bike. I'm torn between learning off road riding or getting one this season. Happy riding
10mins 🥲 man you are damaging your bike by doing this 🙄 instead of saving it from wear and tear Just wait until the rpm comes at idle speed and go slowly and drive it in 2nd gear atleast for 1 km
I've always been of the opinion that warming up by riding gently is the way to go, and it's quick. Given I have a 19000 RPM CBR250RR that has clocked over 125,000km, I'd say it works.
Literally all 8 of my mc22s run super shit till they are warm, but I have to go up a long hill so I always let them run for about 3 to 4 minutes before taking off
@@Tyler_Mayhem That's a crazy number of MC22's! I don't have a hill so can basically ride straight away, albeit stumbling. Out the gate it'll bog when giving it anything but the slightest throttle, but it quickly improves. I never use the choke, but then it rarely gets colder than 0C here. When using daily it'll start without choke + a bit of throttle with minimal drama.
@@nesto9889my old 99 ninja 250r would rev to 14k and that’s where the redline started. 19k is pretty nuts. But I’d bet he has no power at all under 8k rpms lol I know the ninja didn’t
I'm using full synthetic motorcycle oil and after a few times in the morning (slightly above freezing). I often have my oil light go on for a little bit and then goes away. I unfortunately immediately get on a highway from my home but I try to keep it under 6k on the tach. I checked my oil level and its thick enough to take some time to show up on the glass. Once warmed up its perfectly good oil level. I let it warm up for a minute or two before taking off.
Yes you should warm up your engine and for the first couple of miles take it easy , no your wrong you should let the oil get round the engine, also the metal body of the engine the gear box etc .
One of the first things I learned when I took my first bike from the dealership - always wait for the working 🌡️ to be at least 40°C and change the oil on time or a little before that.
A very recent doubt to pop up into my mind since reading some people mention warming up. Very precise and logical analysis from Ari as always. Although I have a KM long twisty and bumpy pocket road to cover before arriving main road and I'm not a rev happy person at low speed, so no harm done. Thanks for the video, just as important as the engine break in video.
These videos are so informative and straight to the point. I love it. I always feel educated after watching these videos. Thanks guys for making quality content.
Modern engines are engineering marvels, but that doesn't change the fact that the piston will heat up faster than the cylinder and that will cause cold seizing if you give a cold engine too much throttle. It has a lot less to do with RPM and a lot more to do with combustion pressure and temperature.
I remember when my dealer delivered my Dorsoduro 900 to my house, he told me to make sure to warm up my bike in about 10 seconds before riding it since the idle bogs a bit at that time. I was a bit baffled since it's EFI, but followed his advice anyway, and learning more reasons in this video, I'm glad I did.
@@fanciestspoon586 I heard that bike is a beast, but I think I'll stick with the DD900. Most problems coming from the 750s and the 1200s have been addressed in the 900s.
Very helpful! Never considered some of those points. The manual for my Versys says to let it warm up before riding and now I have a better understanding why. I know when its ready to go when the idle speed levels around 1200-1300 RPMs. Can take a little bit during the winter but it allows me to adjust the idle speed on those particularly chilly days.
I noticed on my 2020 Versys X300 is that it runs like a tiger off the line when warmed, but just below normal operating temp. Once it's its full op. temp, not as quick.
Very good video. For reference I have a 2017 ZX14R that I bought new and it runs perfectly. My routine is to start it up, put on my gloves and then start down the driveway. I live in a neighborhood where the distance is perfect for warmup before I get to the exit onto the first road. While in the neighborhood I shift into 3rd and give it zero throttle. It goes on its own just fine and the idle revs drop before I get to the exit. In the rare case that the idle rev hasn't dropped I baby the throttle on the exit road until it does. I always thought that was a sensible procedure. Nice to have this video confirm it.
I have a efi royal Enfield bullet 500 and if you try and start it and ride it will stall bog and back fire until warm just like any older bike been like that since I bought it new in 2016
The owners manual on my ZX10R literally says idling for 5 minutes can permanently damage the engine. Sportsbikes are heavily reliant on airflow for temperature managment. (It also has a note about that the radiator coolant is laced with anti corrosive chemicals and thus not fit for human consumption. Always loved that little touch)
To me warming up my bike before riding is like stretching before a jog. It just feels better and also my engine sounds like it's not working so hard . When I take off with out warming I could definitely here the difference of the engine. It sounds like it's giving it's all trying to push.
I’ve been on the fence about letting my bike idle for a few mins before taking off, this definitely helps me not to worry about it too much. Thanks, Revzilla.
In a car, which I'm assuming is very close in a bike, the oil takes about 13 seconds to fully flow from pan to top back down. So if your bike is fuel injected, like he said, all it takes is putting on your gloves.
If you load the motor cold you are going to help the engine wear along. Also remember that very hard metals have less elasticity and will Crack when cold when subjected to load. So if you pull out of your driveway then stall the motor, you might be putting ultra fine cracks in
Ari testing all the automotive presumptions with FACTS love it. I still sometimes contemplate if I should wait or just go and this has put me at ease with an EFI machine (for slow going commuting at least) much love
every bike ive had ive always let it warm up while i get my gear on and ready to go normally 5-10 mins. bike runs so much smoother when warm instead of forcing it to struggle when cold
@@trsskater the bikes a 96cbr600 on carbs running richer than factory due to tuning so takes longer than fuel injection bikes to run properly when its cold
You just punished your bike. And engine is to be warm up while driving. You idled it for 10 minutes with cold engine parts. Drive it and it would be the same temperature in one minute… do you see the point? Quickly warm it up. Not slowly
Love your content as always. I’ll add a point.. my 03 FJR1300 idles a little higher for a bit before dropping down to base rpm….. if I EVER shift it into first while like this, the clunk is nasty. So I guess I’m waiting more for transmission compliance more so than heat everywhere else. Keep up the great work!👍
My r1 does the same thing revs high for like a minute then drops down. But i will always let my bike warm up untill at least 130 before jumping on it. Just me tho
All bikes I’ve had clunk bad when cold, that’s Honda, Kawasaki, Cf Moto and Yamaha My MT-09 though, Jesus, you need to give it a minute, it’s like you aren’t pulling in the clutch if you kick it into gear in the first 30 seconds
In the old days I had to let my 1981 carbureted Honda CX500 warm up for about 5 minutes, or it was all bucky and hesitant. My current Kawi C14 I'll start and let run for 30 seconds or so like my car, until it drops down from fast idle speed. EFI is a such a blessing to have on bikes.
That's bs, 140k kms 650cc kawasaki in my hands, never ever waiting for warmup, only not hitting over 4krmps untill feel its warm, wasting of time and gas for let the bike run
Ari doing god's work here. Now we can just send these links instead of having to debate in person. My 2016 Ducati Monster 1200 R definitely takes some time to "wake up".
Yeah, I don't know. My Kawasaki Z900RS has a warm up cycle which lasts three to five minutes until it drops the idle speed to 1000. I have always been very conservative during the break-in period and always let my bike come up to full temp on the first start-up of the day. My engines have all run strong and tight to 50,000 miles plus. The people I sell them to always comment on how new and tight the motors feel. I saw your video comparing two CB500 motors and I admit that you changed my mind on the break-in, but I am going to stick with the full warmup because the way all my bikes have lasted tells me that I am doing something right.
The warm up cycle is ecu regulated based on the tempture. If you get it up to tempture faster it will drop the idle sooner. It only idles higher to help with combustion.
Gr8 vid. This is about thermal stress of the engine. Running the bike without proper warming up will not implode the engine, but will increase its thermal stress in the life of an engine. In other words, with all other things being equal, an engine enduring less thermal stress will yield more mileages in its life time. An engine with higher thermal stress tends to weaken faster and will cause catastrophic failure sooner. If all sys are well, let the engine idle speed tell us when the engine warmed up. Cold idle revs btw 2.5k to 3.5k; warm idle revs btw .6 to 1.2k. Don't forget, before going full, let the clutch plates, final drive chain & sprocket, and tires all warm up properly.
Running the bike at low operating RPMs for less time will warm the bike up faster resulting in less total thermal stress on the engine than if the engine were to idle for a muuuuuch longer time.
I am a newbie in riding culture but the other day I went on a 100km ride & when I returned and parked my bike the clutch cover was not very warm as I was expecting even though I was riding almost at redline If I share my experience so far without a cold start the gear shifts don't feel too smooth especially 1st gear while rolling Great informative video helped a lot😁
I personally let my bike warm up whenever possible, it just tends to run better cuz it only knows 2 throttle positions, closed and wide open. However the info in the video I can get behind, keep up the good work 👍
Alright all good points and info but there's one you may of overlooked is the fuel inrichment mode that comes in the ECU programming that makes you allow the bike to warm up before it will drop the rpm down below 2000. My 2020 z900rs will hold 2000rpm until it warms up, while I can take off while it's in this mode it's a little weird to take off then come to a stop sign and have it revving at 2000 rpm.
In cars, it takes about 10 to 15 mins of normal driving to get oil up to operating temp. In bikes, it's about 7 to 12 mins. Just ride normally for 10 mins, then start to ease into hard riding.
Eh, I have a 2004 zx6. It's pretty much a one-off case, but it's fuel injected with a "choke" since the idle isn't computer controlled. I always let it warm up to 56*C before I take off, seems to be the magic number the bike likes.
I knew we'd have a few of these comments. You're a badass John. I applaud you for gettin' out to the gym AND riding in some serious cold weather. Respect.
My routine Start the engine Let it idle for no more than 1 minute (while I take it out of the garage) Start riding slowly for about 3 minutes, watching the temperature bar, when I see about 3 or 4 lines. I'm good to ride normally.
Look. I'm going to have to slightly disagree with this one. Firstly, cold starts require richer mixtures because of the increase in ambient air density when it's cold which causes it to be outside the ideal combustable range of a fuel:air mix, not because of condensation. Two stroke engine tuners know this very well. We used air densitometers trackside to inform our carburettor jet decisions back in the day. In 4 stroke production bikes with carburettors they use the air-choke to manually balance the fuel air ratio and injection does it with temp sensors and mapping to produce a longer injection pulse. Now, with regard to warming up a modern engine, the loose tolerances and dissimilar metals in a modern cold production bike produce much more than a little wear as they slap about inside the engine. Modern synthetic oils rely on tight warm gaps to exploit the high film strength of these thin oils under pressure. This is particularly important for piston rings and plain crankshaft bearings. I believe the testing that has shown that 90% of friction wear in a modern engine occurs under load in the period before the engine reaches correct operating temperature. My advice would be to start the bike on the stand, put on your helmet and gloves before getting on and riding away and take it really easy until it gets close to operating temperature.
@@HartyBiker Not really. I disagree with his comment about the dissimilar expansion of the various metals not causing significant wear before operating temp is reached. He implies that the slipperiness of the oil is what protects the engine rather than the film strength. Film strength requires tight tolerances and those tolerances don't happen until correct operating temp is reached.
Great, straightforward info---very helpful! I have a '78 BMW 100/7. If I try to move it out of my driveway without a three-minute warm-up on a cold day, I swear I can hear the engine say: "Schneide das aus, du Idiot!"
If you are stuck using E-10 fuel where you live, you might want to concider rejetting your carbs as the stoichiometric air-fuel ratio for pure gasoline, what was sold at the pump in '78, is 14.7:1 whereas for E-10 is 14.08:1.
I am an engineer and the fact that motorcycle engines don't blow up every so often is unbelievable to me. I will always make sure my engine never sees redline and it gets its 1 minute idle time.
Engineer in what? Oil pressure at idle is lower than at moderate engine speeds. Letting it idle is more harmful than just setting of gently. Turn it on and set off, that way you build up oil pressure the fastest. Once the oil temperature reaches about 80 degrees you can give it some load…
It is SHOCKING how motorcycle engines hold together. Although some do blow up. -The Kawasaki Vulcan with the plastic oil pump gear, which would fail and lose oil pressure (only certain years had this issue). -And the notorious most dangerous engine ever built, the Kawasaki ZX-12R in 1999-2003 era, which had an oiling problem during acceleration, where oil starvation to the pickup tube would cause a spun bearing on the crank and the engine would literally explode and shoot a rod out of the bottom of the engine at high speeds on the freeway. -Also, Aprilia 660 engines are well known for exploding due to an oiling problem and they also have severe oil burning problems due to defects in the valve seals or oiling rings. -Suzuki DR650 (earlier models) had bolts that would fall out inside the transmission on the neutral indicator and the engine could potentially lock up. -KLR650 were notorious for having a bad cam chain tensioner and the engine would fail if it wasn't replaced.
What kind of engineer are you? Software? Idling is the most inefficient way to bring the engine up to temperature and it creates the lowest amount of oil pressure. Redline is the safe maximum RPM set by the engineers who built that engine. As long as the engine is in good working order you can ride it at Redline all day long. My bike actually runs cooler at higher revs than if I cruise around.
I learned to drive on an old Chevy truck and always waited a Sec for the engine to warm up. Lmao I know you really don’t have to do it to fuel injected anything, but I still do.
I trust these guys and really do take their advice on board. However, with my ZX636R having done 45K, imma gonna let her have a little warm up just incase. Yes she's very well looked after and yes I have a whole file from the previous owners loving maintenance.... but, 45k on a sport bike - and that's UK miles, not KM
In Chicago I wait for the revs to stabilize and any weird startup noises to cease before going nice and gentle until its at operating temperature lol. In the winter this takes about a minute for the RPM's and oil pressure to stabilize. In the summer a few seconds, and usually no extra noise in the summer.
I always let me 2021 mt07 warm up. When I put it into first gear when its cold, its a hard thunk and lurches forward aggressively. When I let it warm up, it doesn't do that too bad.
@@sv650nyc7 its a known problem with the mt07. Why does it lurch and clunk forward when the engine is cold, and doesn't do it when the engine is warmed up???
Ironically, not a mention of liquid cooled vs. air cooled. I expected the "don't let the older air-cooled bikes sit indefinitely at idle". Guess I'm so old that I think about stuff that used to be relevant. But if you're a youngster AND have an air-cooled machine... take note.
Never had issues with my air cooled bikes, even living in a hot climate. Riding track on my air cooled bike, you were definitely slower after a few laps from all the built up heat, but never a problem idling.
@@JoshuaTootell aslonmg as u drive its fine but if u let a air cooled stuff idle for 15 mins. its most likeyly somethings gonna have more wear as intendet and therefor = breaking down
The faster your engine is on temperature the less wear it will get. riding it moderately immediately will get it warm the quickest. why you don't want to redline your engine, or (and this is more important) full throttle aka heavy loads (heavy loads tend to increase temperature more then high rpm). is because of expansion. because the piston is light and thin and the block is thick and big, the expansion rates with temperatures are different. so it is possible you'll expand your pistons so much they will seize in the block. and then your engine is fucked. bottom line is start, ride gently, then bean it.
@@mr.terwilliger5728 Riding your bike gently does not put moving parts under any significant stress Leaving your engine to stay cold MUCH MUCH longer during a long and slow idle warmup is 100% more harmful than getting it up to temp fast with propper oil pressure. However modern engines are unlikely to care whatever you do, maybe the "perfect warmup procedure" will increase longevity by like 5%
@@Surpriseify The coolant is constantly being cooled (not trying to be funny) by the radiator and fan. If the coolant is running at 210-225 then there are much higher actual engine temperatures heating that coolant constantly. Remember the gas exploding in the cylinder is roughly 2500 degrees, maybe 2600. Most of that heat is expelled through the exhaust pipe, the remaining heats the immediate metal inside the cylinder walls and travels through the block (where the radiator fluid comes in) and heats the oil and whatever surrounding engine parts are there. My point ultimately is that there are engine parts well over 500 degrees moving and rubbing, we want to wait until everything is lubricated and very hot before applying stress to these parts by riding when the engine is cold 🙂
You just made me understand why my 355 SBC swapped Oldsmobile takes forever to warm up. And even when at operating temp, the carb STILL bogs down midrange until its really warmed up. The original carb that came on the original engine was computer controlled even in 1985. I looked back at pictures on my phone before I pulled it and the quadrajet had two plugs coming out of it, going to the computer that was helping to control the mixture on the fly. Since I no longer have that computer, and the new engine and carb are running completely mechanical and unaided by a computer at all, it struggles until it feels right on its own because nobody is adjusting the mixture for temperature or anything like that. Thanks bro
I don’t warm up the engine by idling without load because I understand that it glazes the bores. I do however drive it quite gently for a couple of minutes until the chill is gone.
My race engine building friends told me to ALWAYS bring the oil up to temp before pulling out on my bikes. You touched on this in the last segment. Engine components need to be up to temp to operate properly. I always let my bikes warm up and will always let them warm up. It's way cheaper to come to temp on the stand then do cold damage to the engine.
Never hurts to let them warm up for about 1min-2min. Just start up your bike and by the time I get my gear on turn on my sena/go pro. Put some nice tunes on. Am ready to go EASY👍
My carbureted 2006 Hyosung runs just fine after idling for 10 seconds or so. Ditto for my 1983 Suzuki GS1100E. As you say, I never open up the throttle until they get warmed up, though.
I've always practised mechanical sympathy by letting engines warm up before putting them to work, whether you can get away with it or not. Feels wrong in the soul lol
Truth is, your probably doing more harm than good letting engines that are computer controlled warm up to operating temps. Cold engines wear more than warms ones and modern (in the last 20 years) engines have the proper fuel maps to keep the engine safe during the first part of your ride.
@@urmomsahoe1 letting the engine warm up never harms it more, theres less load and stress on parts and reducing wear and tear is key for longevity when not in operating state. A fuel map simply wont protect the materials the engine and bearings are made of aka metal
I seriously dislike people letting their bike idling for warm up. It has been proven decades ago, that a gentle drive warms everything up way faster with equal stress (i.e. none).
Both my bikes' owners manuals say to let it warm up a minute, so I do. Between the manufacturer's rec and your "serious dislike," guess which one I give half a crap about?
@@cisium1184 LOL, were you seriously offended to be so defensive? I'm not talking about letting it idle for "a minute", while getting a helmet, gloves on, etc (as he stated in the video, actually). I don't know what you are riding, but my manual doesn't state anything like that.
Enter to win a free Kershaw pocket knife here: a.pgtb.me/W6wfPG
Awesome video, however just one correction:
At 3:15, Clearances, not tolerances
My fuel injected KTM 500 has a choke. When the engine is cold, it won't stay running without the choke on.
do a video of does speed matter for temperature of bike engine. do we need to drive it faster to prevent overheating.
yo what are those boots you are wearing at 2:58 ?
I have a 2000 250 rm Suzuki should I warn it up
Personally I’ve always started the engine, then put my helmet and gloves on, and then ride off. It lets the engine warm up for about 30 seconds and doesn’t waste any time that I wouldn’t have used anyway.
Same here 👍
That’s how I do it.
Yep and time to check her over too.
Er, non of that works if you ride the old Brit and Italian bikes i ride....more specifically, the Brit bikes with chokes removed....
Ditto. Let’s me listen and check-in and walk around, then go.
I always love these Ari TED talks, I really miss MC garage. So more of this please.
We all miss MC garage my friend, we all do.
well this is basically an "MC Garage" with different name on different channel
MC GARAGE❤️
They could be improved only by the addition of dreds
Yea mc garage was super cool
Im a new rider since june 2024, I love it. My whole life has changed since I bought myself a zx-6r, brand new !! I'm glad I found your videos, that way I can keep it as clean as possible !! Keep em coming !! Cheers from Canada
I think people also forget that a lot of lubricated parts don't move at idle. Part of that 'taking it slow' period is warming up your gearbox among other things. You could very well hit the right temp for your engine and then dump wayyy to much power into a still fairly cold gearbox.
Ideally, you'd start riding as soon as you can, but I've got to let mine sit for a short bit typically as it isn't fuel injected and keeping it from stalling is a bit of an issue if it doesn't have a short bit to warm up like that.
But, in general, it's best to warm up the bike by gently riding it before doing anything too strenuous.
@@SmallSpoonBrigade yes - I would definitely agree that a carbureted engine does need that time for the fuel system to set up - great point.
@@SmallSpoonBrigade a professor once told us in a lecture on combustion engines in university that the heat brought into a engine at idle is so low, that the engine will get more damage from idling without properly heated oil than it takes when you just start rolling around calmly.
This was said about car engines when it‘s really cold outside, but maybe it‘s also true for motorcycling temperatures 😁🤷🏼♂️
But the oil is not the same for engine and gearbox? so if the oil is hot it'll get hot those parts too, right?
@@MerBowe the oils are separate yes so for example if you warm your engine up at idle on a rear wheel drive car then none of that heat is getting to the rear differential parts. Your transmission might get a little heat through the block but still won't be up to proper temps. Best to drive and let the whole system warm up together.
the best explination of how the fuel vapourises and the condenses again in a cold engine.... i learnt something... thank you
Very interesting & helpful although old habits die hard. I think I'd always leave a bike a few minutes to run in & give it a good few miles regardless before giving it any serious throttle. I probably have too much mechanical sympathy but it just feels wrong to abuse an engine imo.
At the end, he did mention giving it time before trying to hit redline.
Correct
@@samuelalexander8030 True he did, just meant I'd probably always have that routine regardless of the science. I guess it just feels right to me at least, even if it's not strictly necessary.
@@ragerider6283 One failure in all parts, especially the parts that are operating at higher temperature that always and inevitably catches up is called "fatigue failure". Sure the morden manufacturing methods and considerable about of design consideration goes into making sure this doesn't happen before "N" number of working cycles, but you will only find this out after say like 10 to 20 years. It's always a good idea to let the bike sit a while, let it get to somewhat of an ideal operating working temperature so that there's no sudden "thermal strain" in components which leads to small micro fractures and whatever.
The Science does say this and it's usually ignored because it doesn't have any immediate effect. And ofcourse there are the tolerances and what not that has its own effects with respect to temperature change.
@@arunvignesh7015 “Micro-fractures” aren’t thermally induced; they’re caused first by metal-to-metal contact before oil-flow and are made worse by heat.
I ride an old Knucklehead. I tuned the carb lean to save money on gas, as my income as a senior is limited. The only drawback, is if I kick start it in March, it needs to idle until at least May to warm up. It coughs, spits and farts more than I do. But, May is a better month to ride it, anyway.
Shoulda bought a Honda .
Running lean doesn't only generate a worse combustion that takes more time to warm the engine... It also reduces power output and when the engine is hot, it tends to run hotter. Air/fuel mixture should always be as close to stoichiometric as possible.
Dont want to run an air cooled bike too lean, it effects cooling in a negative way. I always ran my carbed bikes a touch rich.
@@LucasDaRonco So...I'm the knucklehead?
@@northerniltree lol, that was funny 🤣
My usual method is about a minute of idling, then low RPM cruising until it’s all warmed up. Glad to see others are aware of this as well. One way to think of it is that engine wear is not linear throughout the RPM range. If an engine has a 10,000 RPM redline and will last 5 hours at a constant 10k, it doesn’t mean it will last 10 hours at 5k RPM. Since wear is increased when the engine is cold, and engine wear is exponential with RPM, don’t rev it while it’s cold.
I use a heat gun to heat my engine. Save fuel and engine both 🤣🤣
@@pravesh736 That wastes time. I just set the whole thing on fire, then ride into the sunset...
This is the best to do not waste too much time, i do the same in my car.
@@pravesh736 in the north, we have block heaters on our cars. Same idea, but easier setup and use.
Well in case of 4 stroke engines, once it reaches operating temperature then engine wear does not really happen no matter RPM range, because all the parts have proper oil film and oil flow. As long as you replace the oil often enough, then you can ride it at max RPM all the time.
Agree 100% with this. I will do low rpm riding even with my carbureted bike once it's warm enough to run at half choke. On my EFI bike, I roll it out of the garage, start it, close the door and put on my helmet then go. I think most people who ride have the same ideal scenario that I have for warming up their engine -- I take it easy for the first handful of minutes though town, and by the time I reach the highway, the bike is ready for some revs.
I have always believed it to be healthy to warm any engine up for a minute or two. I have a 2021 Z900 and a 2017 Audi A4 and both of these vehicles rev at about 1200 at idle for about a minute depending on the outside temp. I let them both drop down to the natural idle speed before driving/riding.
A lot of this stuff is from old information before modern tech. Some people still think they need to let the car warm up too and that hasn't been true at least since the 90s. Some places in the US even make it illegal to leave your vehicle idling since all it does is waste gas and add unnecessary pollution.
@@danielkerr4100 that simply isn't true anymore. It was a few decades ago but modern engines don't have the same issues. After 4 minutes it has gone through the same amount engine wearing cycles as if it was double idle for 2 minutes. It's even illegal to let your car ideal for that long in some areas in the US because you don't need to do that anymore. And if what your saying is true when does the engine blow up? My car is at 82k miles now and I've had it from 13k and haven't had any engine issues and I drive it the same in summer and winter and hit it hard once it has warmed up. Do you have any concrete data that backs up those claims because I should see some loss of performance at this point especially since my car is a sports car. Also the more efficient your engine is the less heat it will produce at ideal so that would only intruce more inconsistency with the logic in modern cars.
Sweet! I have a 2020 Z900. I love that bike.
Old car manuals will say 30 seconds.. something about getting the piston/rings to be expanded as to reduce blow by.
Why would you idle a car at 1200 rpm ?
Also don’t get greedy with the throttle until the tires are warm too! I’m sure you know this, Ari, but some of us don’t or forget! Don’t ask me how I know 😂
Also check them while sitting on your bike. Underinflation will wobble your front at high speeds
Yeah .. learned the hard way too 😂
the best way to learn :) I also learned not to squeeze my front brake on the slippery surface on an underground garage, while turning.
How do you know when the tires are warm?
@@zupinu2000 when tires are warm braking distance is reduced and traction is increased . You can feel the bike is easier to stop and maneuver..or you can just touch the tire 😂. By the way if you have worn tires you will need a lot more time to reach optimal temperature .With good tires will take few minutes , you can even install a tpms sensor . When tires are warm you will see psi-bar increase .. some even have tire temperature sensor .
That’s how my mate stuffed his Aprilia Shiver when he bought it new. He used to redline it from startup. It was buggered by 16 thousand klm.
Did he learn from his mistakes doing that?
@@georgegarcia3182 nah of course not. He doesn’t ride bikes anymore. But he still gives his cars the same treatment. I kept telling him but hey, some people.
I feel bad fire anyone who buys his stuff second hand
Same as a mate who bought an XR600R the same time as me. He warmed his up by doing wheelstands and skids. I started mine and then put on all my riding gear. His was blowing smoke within 6 months. He gave up riding shortly after. Mine was still perfect 10 years later when it was stolen.
My k5 gixxer 1000 still runs mint after 85 thousand on the clock. Still dynos at 172 to 174hp.
Pistons expand when hot. When pistons are cold they rattle more and the skirt hasn't expanded all the way at the bottom of the piston, so the piston is more likely to rock in the bore, and cause piston scuffing. And the connecting rod big end bearing clearance dramatically increases on the crank journals when hot. If you are running a cold engine super hard, there is a chance that you scuff the connecting rod bearings, or worse, damage the crankshaft and spin a bearing. This video was really good, because the most likely scenario is that running a cold engine really hard, when clearances are too tight on certain bearing surfaces, will just lead to accelerated wear.
Thanks for summarizing the third point from the video. 👍
I ride a z1000 and let it idle for 1-2min then give it a quick idle of extra 500rpm for another 30secs then go but I only commute to work about 5miles away and hardly over 30mph so it’s never pushed hard most of the time anyway and just do the scheduled maintenance recommended.
About 10-30 seconds is usually sufficient just idling, then go easy until the oil and water are up to temp. Also gives you time to get zone in before you thrash 😉
Totally agree! I fire up the bike and check all my lights and controls, put my helmet on, gloves and button up the jacket, that is sufficient time for it to start warming up. By the time I’m ready to roll my temp gauge comes alive and that’s my personal indication that we’re good to go!
i let my engine idle for abt 1.5 to 2 minutes. i live in norway where weather is usually mildly cold
Informative, concise, and well articulated arguments. Excellent work.
Thanks Adrien. We aim to keep the vids short and sweet!
Sure. :) Always great indeed. Can check my content.
Good video. My take is that it comes down to "be reasonable". My routine for carbed bikes is to put on my gear, start the bike on the center stand, or sitting on the bike, then put on by helmet & gloves. On warmer days, or subsequent starts, the idle time is pretty short. On colder days, it may go up to 2-3 minutes. Some of my bikes are more cold-blooded than others. Too short of a warm-up is less than optimal. Too long of a warm-up is less than optimal. Be reasonable with the bike, and it will treat you well.
3 months ago I bought a chinese 110cc 4t bike with 4 gears, before driving Im letting it stationary for 2 or 3 min. to warm up. After that when i start driving the engine is still cold but the gear changes are smooth, the throttle response is better. Now the bike have 5k kilometars on the clock without any problems, Im just loving it :DD
Give your bike those 3 min, you wont miss anything and the bike will last much longer
Pretty sound advice and what I habitually do on my Kawasaki Z1000SX / Ninja 1000SX: Start the bike up, then put earplugs, helmet and gloves on while simultaneously running a check that all lights are operating correctly, before mounting and riding 👍
You should wait at least until the idle comes down which is about 139F.
@@spoonman73 yup, that's what normally happens on my Kawasaki Z1000SX. By the time I put on earplugs, helmet and gloves, the idle has dropped.
@@NooBiker ear plugs ?? isn't the sound part of why we ride.. its pure music..
@@captaincrunch72 so I want to keep my hearing. Ear plugs cut out the frequencies for wind noise generated by the helmet and air turbulence. I can still hear the induction sound from the air intake, exhaust tone and pops etc. as well as other cars.
@@captaincrunch72 hearing loss is permanent and not fun.
4:39-4:45 sums it up nicely. That’s more or less my routine every time I ride and it’s worked out well so far.
Really helpful info. As a rule of thumb I would always let my bike idle for at least 2 ~ 3 minutes after a cold start with the choke on because when I started riding I had a carburetted CB600F which would run like trash when applying any kind of throttle when cold.
But yeah, take it out of the garage, pre flight the bike, turn it on, jacket, helmet, gloves, double check brakes and off I go. I usually baby my bikes until the coolant needle is in the middle or the clutch cover is hot to the touch. Never had any issues.
100% my routine is almost exactly the same. My FZR250R will just stall if I give it revs before it’s warmed up for a couple of minutes.
Idling is pretty stressful to the engine also. You can feel that by vibrations which are usually stronger at idle. My Internal Combustion Engines teacher told me long time ago, that it's better to go gently, than to warm up at idle. You shorten the warmup time if you go, instead of idling and that's better for the engine. At that time fuel injected engines were still pretty rare.
In the manual for my 2022 Harley Road King, it states “The engine should be allowed to run slowly for 15 to 30 seconds. This will allow the engine to warm up and let oil reach all surfaces needing lubrication. Failure to comply can result in engine damage”.
I always have to wonder how much stuff is put in owner's manuals just for manufacturers to avoid having to pay for repairs during a warranty period.
@@HartyBiker Why would they worry about it ? Oh that's right they know something about the bike they make lol.
I’ve always warmed up my bike because while it’s warming up , I check all lights indicators and brake lights and horn are working. Plus check the temperature outside and the road surface , creature of habit over 52 years of driving 😊👍👍
It's really good to see a thorough and concise section in the shop manual to address warmup times, etc. I agree that clearances in the machine are optimum within the operating temperature range for the machine. Most modern motorcycle engines are constructed of various dissimilar metals and other materials, including gaskets, that operate in concert when they reach optimum temperature range. Who knows what might be in that engine? Titanium, aluminum, balonium or just plain old pot metal.... Thanks Ari!
You just saved me 10 minutes every day. Before my daily ride to and from work, I would start up my Z900RS, and wait until the revs dropped below 1500, then hit the road. I thought I had to let the oil warm up and circulate through the engine. No more...thank you Ari!
Happy to help!
You actually increase wear (slightly) by doing this as your engine warms slower idling vs being ridden. Same advice applies to cars. I've babied my machines and used to do this until someone explained this to me and now I give it a bit to turn over and then just go easy for about 5-7 minutes til I give it the beans.
Your thermostat will show higher temps earlier than engine oil so if it says it Warm give it a little more time as your oil is more reflective of your actual engine temp.
Btw I love your bike. I'm torn between learning off road riding or getting one this season. Happy riding
10mins 🥲 man you are damaging your bike by doing this 🙄 instead of saving it from wear and tear
Just wait until the rpm comes at idle speed and go slowly and drive it in 2nd gear atleast for 1 km
I've always been of the opinion that warming up by riding gently is the way to go, and it's quick.
Given I have a 19000 RPM CBR250RR that has clocked over 125,000km, I'd say it works.
Literally all 8 of my mc22s run super shit till they are warm, but I have to go up a long hill so I always let them run for about 3 to 4 minutes before taking off
@@Tyler_Mayhem That's a crazy number of MC22's!
I don't have a hill so can basically ride straight away, albeit stumbling. Out the gate it'll bog when giving it anything but the slightest throttle, but it quickly improves.
I never use the choke, but then it rarely gets colder than 0C here. When using daily it'll start without choke + a bit of throttle with minimal drama.
250cc but 19k rpm?
Those Hondas will probably outlive humanity lol
@@nesto9889my old 99 ninja 250r would rev to 14k and that’s where the redline started. 19k is pretty nuts. But I’d bet he has no power at all under 8k rpms lol I know the ninja didn’t
I'm using full synthetic motorcycle oil and after a few times in the morning (slightly above freezing). I often have my oil light go on for a little bit and then goes away. I unfortunately immediately get on a highway from my home but I try to keep it under 6k on the tach. I checked my oil level and its thick enough to take some time to show up on the glass. Once warmed up its perfectly good oil level. I let it warm up for a minute or two before taking off.
Yes you should warm up your engine and for the first couple of miles take it easy , no your wrong you should let the oil get round the engine, also the metal body of the engine the gear box etc .
One of the first things I learned when I took my first bike from the dealership - always wait for the working 🌡️ to be at least 40°C and change the oil on time or a little before that.
And how long does that take ?
@@alanmlkbanda If you just hold the throttle open so it's hitting the limiter while in neutral it doesn't take long to warm it up
A very recent doubt to pop up into my mind since reading some people mention warming up. Very precise and logical analysis from Ari as always. Although I have a KM long twisty and bumpy pocket road to cover before arriving main road and I'm not a rev happy person at low speed, so no harm done. Thanks for the video, just as important as the engine break in video.
These videos are so informative and straight to the point. I love it. I always feel educated after watching these videos. Thanks guys for making quality content.
You're welcome. We're glad you appreciate them.
@@AriH211 I’m
Modern engines are engineering marvels, but that doesn't change the fact that the piston will heat up faster than the cylinder and that will cause cold seizing if you give a cold engine too much throttle. It has a lot less to do with RPM and a lot more to do with combustion pressure and temperature.
03:56 and there goes my dream-bike......!!
I remember when my dealer delivered my Dorsoduro 900 to my house, he told me to make sure to warm up my bike in about 10 seconds before riding it since the idle bogs a bit at that time. I was a bit baffled since it's EFI, but followed his advice anyway, and learning more reasons in this video, I'm glad I did.
I had the Aprila Dorsoduros counterpart, the Shiver 750. I loved that bike. If you get the chance get the Dorsoduro 1200 I hear they are super fun.
@@fanciestspoon586 I heard that bike is a beast, but I think I'll stick with the DD900. Most problems coming from the 750s and the 1200s have been addressed in the 900s.
Very helpful! Never considered some of those points. The manual for my Versys says to let it warm up before riding and now I have a better understanding why. I know when its ready to go when the idle speed levels around 1200-1300 RPMs. Can take a little bit during the winter but it allows me to adjust the idle speed on those particularly chilly days.
I noticed on my 2020 Versys X300 is that it runs like a tiger off the line when warmed, but just below normal operating temp. Once it's its full op. temp, not as quick.
I ride a 1982 Honda XL185S and it takes about 5 minutes to be warm enough to idle
Very good video. For reference I have a 2017 ZX14R that I bought new and it runs perfectly. My routine is to start it up, put on my gloves and then start down the driveway. I live in a neighborhood where the distance is perfect for warmup before I get to the exit onto the first road. While in the neighborhood I shift into 3rd and give it zero throttle. It goes on its own just fine and the idle revs drop before I get to the exit. In the rare case that the idle rev hasn't dropped I baby the throttle on the exit road until it does. I always thought that was a sensible procedure. Nice to have this video confirm it.
I have a efi royal Enfield bullet 500 and if you try and start it and ride it will stall bog and back fire until warm just like any older bike been like that since I bought it new in 2016
The owners manual on my ZX10R literally says idling for 5 minutes can permanently damage the engine. Sportsbikes are heavily reliant on airflow for temperature managment.
(It also has a note about that the radiator coolant is laced with anti corrosive chemicals and thus not fit for human consumption. Always loved that little touch)
To me warming up my bike before riding is like stretching before a jog. It just feels better and also my engine sounds like it's not working so hard . When I take off with out warming I could definitely here the difference of the engine. It sounds like it's giving it's all trying to push.
Engine will only warm after two or three kilometres. At idle it would need more than half an hour.
I’ve been on the fence about letting my bike idle for a few mins before taking off, this definitely helps me not to worry about it too much. Thanks, Revzilla.
In a car, which I'm assuming is very close in a bike, the oil takes about 13 seconds to fully flow from pan to top back down. So if your bike is fuel injected, like he said, all it takes is putting on your gloves.
the engineering nerd in me loves the function of the red line rising when warming up
How about 2 stroke dirt bikes? Cold siezing was an issue and I assume still is.
If you load the motor cold you are going to help the engine wear along. Also remember that very hard metals have less elasticity and will Crack when cold when subjected to load. So if you pull out of your driveway then stall the motor, you might be putting ultra fine cracks in
A 7 minute idle to bring engine up to temp is far worse for it than a 2 minute light ride to do the same.
Ari testing all the automotive presumptions with FACTS love it. I still sometimes contemplate if I should wait or just go and this has put me at ease with an EFI machine (for slow going commuting at least) much love
every bike ive had ive always let it warm up while i get my gear on and ready to go normally 5-10 mins. bike runs so much smoother when warm instead of forcing it to struggle when cold
does it go faster after you clean it too?
10 minutes? Damn. You only need 2 minutes to get to operating temperature. If it's running that rough you have some water in your gas tank.
@@trsskater the bikes a 96cbr600 on carbs running richer than factory due to tuning so takes longer than fuel injection bikes to run properly when its cold
@@leodavies4134 I thought you were talking about a modern bike since that's what this video is about.
You just punished your bike. And engine is to be warm up while driving. You idled it for 10 minutes with cold engine parts. Drive it and it would be the same temperature in one minute… do you see the point? Quickly warm it up. Not slowly
My bike hates running before it's warm and it's EFI so yeah it needs to warm up.
Spot On . Start Engine , Do a Lights Check . Put on Helmet and Gloves . Ride off Gently .
Love your content as always. I’ll add a point.. my 03 FJR1300 idles a little higher for a bit before dropping down to base rpm….. if I EVER shift it into first while like this, the clunk is nasty. So I guess I’m waiting more for transmission compliance more so than heat everywhere else. Keep up the great work!👍
Warm up your bike dont listen to this bullshit..
My r1 does the same thing revs high for like a minute then drops down. But i will always let my bike warm up untill at least 130 before jumping on it. Just me tho
It revs higher first to heat up the catalyser, same for cars
Yami's just seem to have that clunk into first, had a 05 fz1 and now a 04 yzf600r and both clunk a bit going into first, nothing to worry about
All bikes I’ve had clunk bad when cold, that’s Honda, Kawasaki, Cf Moto and Yamaha
My MT-09 though, Jesus, you need to give it a minute, it’s like you aren’t pulling in the clutch if you kick it into gear in the first 30 seconds
Ari with the science and facts! Keeping the industry going! Thank you!
Nice. Love this series. Thanks guys. Also loved that transition from old Triumph to new. Those bikes look very nice.
In the old days I had to let my 1981 carbureted Honda CX500 warm up for about 5 minutes, or it was all bucky and hesitant. My current Kawi C14 I'll start and let run for 30 seconds or so like my car, until it drops down from fast idle speed. EFI is a such a blessing to have on bikes.
Same here, start up, put gear on, ride in neighborhood 15-20 mph for 2 miles, it's warmed up by the time I get to the highway.
Metal expands when it heats up, warm it up for a few minutes 3 or 4 then ride it softly until it’s up to operating temps
we watched the video man
I didn't@@pittbier7597
did mf not watch the video
That's bs, 140k kms 650cc kawasaki in my hands, never ever waiting for warmup, only not hitting over 4krmps untill feel its warm, wasting of time and gas for let the bike run
Ari doing god's work here. Now we can just send these links instead of having to debate in person. My 2016 Ducati Monster 1200 R definitely takes some time to "wake up".
Yeah, I don't know. My Kawasaki Z900RS has a warm up cycle which lasts three to five minutes until it drops the idle speed to 1000. I have always been very conservative during the break-in period and always let my bike come up to full temp on the first start-up of the day. My engines have all run strong and tight to 50,000 miles plus. The people I sell them to always comment on how new and tight the motors feel. I saw your video comparing two CB500 motors and I admit that you changed my mind on the break-in, but I am going to stick with the full warmup because the way all my bikes have lasted tells me that I am doing something right.
The warm up cycle is ecu regulated based on the tempture. If you get it up to tempture faster it will drop the idle sooner. It only idles higher to help with combustion.
@@trsskaterCold start idles usually prioritizes the warming of the catalytic converter
I ride my transalp xlv 600 without waiting for it to warm up. Its a Japanese bike from the 90s, its impossible to damage it! It just works!
Thanks, dude. I had a carbureted bike before my current one, and I thought I still had to wait.
Gr8 vid. This is about thermal stress of the engine. Running the bike without proper warming up will not implode the engine, but will increase its thermal stress in the life of an engine. In other words, with all other things being equal, an engine enduring less thermal stress will yield more mileages in its life time. An engine with higher thermal stress tends to weaken faster and will cause catastrophic failure sooner. If all sys are well, let the engine idle speed tell us when the engine warmed up. Cold idle revs btw 2.5k to 3.5k; warm idle revs btw .6 to 1.2k. Don't forget, before going full, let the clutch plates, final drive chain & sprocket, and tires all warm up properly.
Running the bike at low operating RPMs for less time will warm the bike up faster resulting in less total thermal stress on the engine than if the engine were to idle for a muuuuuch longer time.
I am a newbie in riding culture but the other day I went on a 100km ride & when I returned and parked my bike the clutch cover was not very warm as I was expecting even though I was riding almost at redline
If I share my experience so far without a cold start the gear shifts don't feel too smooth especially 1st gear while rolling
Great informative video helped a lot😁
1st gear is always rough and clonky and should only be used when you come to a complete stand still.
Thank you! I've been saying this for years, this is super clear and well explained; hopefully more people will heed this advice!
Exactly what I have always preached. Let it idle while you strap on your helmet, and ride at low loads / medium RPMs until it's fully warm.
My old 1979 Honda CM400A needed exactly 2 min to warm up. My coworker timed it over multiple days.
I personally let my bike warm up whenever possible, it just tends to run better cuz it only knows 2 throttle positions, closed and wide open. However the info in the video I can get behind, keep up the good work 👍
Alright all good points and info but there's one you may of overlooked is the fuel inrichment mode that comes in the ECU programming that makes you allow the bike to warm up before it will drop the rpm down below 2000. My 2020 z900rs will hold 2000rpm until it warms up, while I can take off while it's in this mode it's a little weird to take off then come to a stop sign and have it revving at 2000 rpm.
It's refreshing to hear some correct advice for once. A rarity these days!
In cars, it takes about 10 to 15 mins of normal driving to get oil up to operating temp. In bikes, it's about 7 to 12 mins. Just ride normally for 10 mins, then start to ease into hard riding.
I always start the engin while i'm putting my helmet and gloves.
Then i ride chill and easy during 10 minutes before hammering the throttle !
Me watching this and looking at my carbureted 125cc 2-stroke bike in -30 degrees celsius . (btw i'm from finland) ;)
Eh, I have a 2004 zx6. It's pretty much a one-off case, but it's fuel injected with a "choke" since the idle isn't computer controlled. I always let it warm up to 56*C before I take off, seems to be the magic number the bike likes.
Ari: "Nobody in their right mind wants to ride at 10 degrees fahrenheit" Me: Laughs in Michigan heading to the gym at 0*F.
I knew we'd have a few of these comments. You're a badass John. I applaud you for gettin' out to the gym AND riding in some serious cold weather. Respect.
@@AriH211 cold weather is not an issue as long as you have proper clothes, ice on the other hand can be an issue for some riders me included
3:15...glad you mentioned this part. Would also mention that in my cold climate, I'm thankful for my 2-stroke Beta and Yamaha boat motor!!!
My routine
Start the engine
Let it idle for no more than 1 minute (while I take it out of the garage)
Start riding slowly for about 3 minutes, watching the temperature bar, when I see about 3 or 4 lines.
I'm good to ride normally.
Look. I'm going to have to slightly disagree with this one. Firstly, cold starts require richer mixtures because of the increase in ambient air density when it's cold which causes it to be outside the ideal combustable range of a fuel:air mix, not because of condensation. Two stroke engine tuners know this very well. We used air densitometers trackside to inform our carburettor jet decisions back in the day. In 4 stroke production bikes with carburettors they use the air-choke to manually balance the fuel air ratio and injection does it with temp sensors and mapping to produce a longer injection pulse.
Now, with regard to warming up a modern engine, the loose tolerances and dissimilar metals in a modern cold production bike produce much more than a little wear as they slap about inside the engine. Modern synthetic oils rely on tight warm gaps to exploit the high film strength of these thin oils under pressure. This is particularly important for piston rings and plain crankshaft bearings. I believe the testing that has shown that 90% of friction wear in a modern engine occurs under load in the period before the engine reaches correct operating temperature. My advice would be to start the bike on the stand, put on your helmet and gloves before getting on and riding away and take it really easy until it gets close to operating temperature.
Isn't that almost word for word what he said in the video though?
@@HartyBiker Not really. I disagree with his comment about the dissimilar expansion of the various metals not causing significant wear before operating temp is reached. He implies that the slipperiness of the oil is what protects the engine rather than the film strength. Film strength requires tight tolerances and those tolerances don't happen until correct operating temp is reached.
Great, straightforward info---very helpful! I have a '78 BMW 100/7. If I try to move it out of my driveway without a three-minute warm-up on a cold day, I swear I can hear the engine say: "Schneide das aus, du Idiot!"
My '13 R1200RT can be fussy as well. Air/Oil cooling is something you learn to live with. 👍
If you are stuck using E-10 fuel where you live, you might want to concider rejetting your carbs as the stoichiometric air-fuel ratio for pure gasoline, what was sold at the pump in '78, is 14.7:1 whereas for E-10 is 14.08:1.
I am an engineer and the fact that motorcycle engines don't blow up every so often is unbelievable to me.
I will always make sure my engine never sees redline and it gets its 1 minute idle time.
high performance engines are designed to bounce off the redline so if you're on a supersport or something equivalent, dont even worry about that!
Engineer in what? Oil pressure at idle is lower than at moderate engine speeds. Letting it idle is more harmful than just setting of gently. Turn it on and set off, that way you build up oil pressure the fastest. Once the oil temperature reaches about 80 degrees you can give it some load…
@@mabrokenleg2388 the tolerances in modern engines, especially high revving ones are pretty bonkers.
It is SHOCKING how motorcycle engines hold together. Although some do blow up.
-The Kawasaki Vulcan with the plastic oil pump gear, which would fail and lose oil pressure (only certain years had this issue).
-And the notorious most dangerous engine ever built, the Kawasaki ZX-12R in 1999-2003 era, which had an oiling problem during acceleration, where oil starvation to the pickup tube would cause a spun bearing on the crank and the engine would literally explode and shoot a rod out of the bottom of the engine at high speeds on the freeway.
-Also, Aprilia 660 engines are well known for exploding due to an oiling problem and they also have severe oil burning problems due to defects in the valve seals or oiling rings.
-Suzuki DR650 (earlier models) had bolts that would fall out inside the transmission on the neutral indicator and the engine could potentially lock up.
-KLR650 were notorious for having a bad cam chain tensioner and the engine would fail if it wasn't replaced.
What kind of engineer are you? Software?
Idling is the most inefficient way to bring the engine up to temperature and it creates the lowest amount of oil pressure.
Redline is the safe maximum RPM set by the engineers who built that engine. As long as the engine is in good working order you can ride it at Redline all day long. My bike actually runs cooler at higher revs than if I cruise around.
I learned to drive on an old Chevy truck and always waited a Sec for the engine to warm up. Lmao I know you really don’t have to do it to fuel injected anything, but I still do.
Well that explains that! I never questioned it, I just let it warm up for 3 or 4 minutes before I took off. Thanks!
I ride all my toys like a stole them, so warm-up is a must.
I trust these guys and really do take their advice on board. However, with my ZX636R having done 45K, imma gonna let her have a little warm up just incase. Yes she's very well looked after and yes I have a whole file from the previous owners loving maintenance.... but, 45k on a sport bike - and that's UK miles, not KM
You can always count on Ari to put things in terms everyone can understand. 🤙
So, C/R takes time off riding to watch videos? Live and breathe motorcycles, right?
It's a good tip to check if the gearbox cover has warmed up.
In Chicago I wait for the revs to stabilize and any weird startup noises to cease before going nice and gentle until its at operating temperature lol. In the winter this takes about a minute for the RPM's and oil pressure to stabilize. In the summer a few seconds, and usually no extra noise in the summer.
I always let me 2021 mt07 warm up. When I put it into first gear when its cold, its a hard thunk and lurches forward aggressively. When I let it warm up, it doesn't do that too bad.
You need to adjust your clutch correctly. It has little to do with cold oil.
@@sv650nyc7 its a known problem with the mt07. Why does it lurch and clunk forward when the engine is cold, and doesn't do it when the engine is warmed up???
Ironically, not a mention of liquid cooled vs. air cooled. I expected the "don't let the older air-cooled bikes sit indefinitely at idle". Guess I'm so old that I think about stuff that used to be relevant. But if you're a youngster AND have an air-cooled machine... take note.
Never had issues with my air cooled bikes, even living in a hot climate.
Riding track on my air cooled bike, you were definitely slower after a few laps from all the built up heat, but never a problem idling.
@@JoshuaTootell aslonmg as u drive its fine but if u let a air cooled stuff idle for 15 mins. its most likeyly somethings gonna have more wear as intendet and therefor = breaking down
The faster your engine is on temperature the less wear it will get.
riding it moderately immediately will get it warm the quickest.
why you don't want to redline your engine, or (and this is more important) full throttle aka heavy loads (heavy loads tend to increase temperature more then high rpm).
is because of expansion. because the piston is light and thin and the block is thick and big, the expansion rates with temperatures are different. so it is possible you'll expand your pistons so much they will seize in the block. and then your engine is fucked.
bottom line is start, ride gently, then bean it.
Sure, but you need to get your oil hot too before getting those moving parts under stress
@@mr.terwilliger5728 Riding your bike gently does not put moving parts under any significant stress
Leaving your engine to stay cold MUCH MUCH longer during a long and slow idle warmup is 100% more harmful than getting it up to temp fast with propper oil pressure.
However modern engines are unlikely to care whatever you do, maybe the "perfect warmup procedure" will increase longevity by like 5%
@@Surpriseify The coolant is constantly being cooled (not trying to be funny) by the radiator and fan. If the coolant is running at 210-225 then there are much higher actual engine temperatures heating that coolant constantly. Remember the gas exploding in the cylinder is roughly 2500 degrees, maybe 2600. Most of that heat is expelled through the exhaust pipe, the remaining heats the immediate metal inside the cylinder walls and travels through the block (where the radiator fluid comes in) and heats the oil and whatever surrounding engine parts are there.
My point ultimately is that there are engine parts well over 500 degrees moving and rubbing, we want to wait until everything is lubricated and very hot before applying stress to these parts by riding when the engine is cold 🙂
You just made me understand why my 355 SBC swapped Oldsmobile takes forever to warm up. And even when at operating temp, the carb STILL bogs down midrange until its really warmed up. The original carb that came on the original engine was computer controlled even in 1985. I looked back at pictures on my phone before I pulled it and the quadrajet had two plugs coming out of it, going to the computer that was helping to control the mixture on the fly. Since I no longer have that computer, and the new engine and carb are running completely mechanical and unaided by a computer at all, it struggles until it feels right on its own because nobody is adjusting the mixture for temperature or anything like that. Thanks bro
I don’t warm up the engine by idling without load because I understand that it glazes the bores. I do however drive it quite gently for a couple of minutes until the chill is gone.
My race engine building friends told me to ALWAYS bring the oil up to temp before pulling out on my bikes. You touched on this in the last segment. Engine components need to be up to temp to operate properly. I always let my bikes warm up and will always let them warm up. It's way cheaper to come to temp on the stand then do cold damage to the engine.
On modern machine it causes more long term damage letting it warm up slowly as apposed to gentle riding to warm it up quicker.
10500. RPM bad When cold , bad when hot...
Never hurts to let them warm up for about 1min-2min. Just start up your bike and by the time I get my gear on turn on my sena/go pro. Put some nice tunes on. Am ready to go EASY👍
My carbureted 2006 Hyosung runs just fine after idling for 10 seconds or so. Ditto for my 1983 Suzuki GS1100E. As you say, I never open up the throttle until they get warmed up, though.
If your a Ducati Guy/Gal, always warm for at least 30sec..This is dealer advise and I have noticed it works !! :)
I've always practised mechanical sympathy by letting engines warm up before putting them to work, whether you can get away with it or not. Feels wrong in the soul lol
Truth is, your probably doing more harm than good letting engines that are computer controlled warm up to operating temps. Cold engines wear more than warms ones and modern (in the last 20 years) engines have the proper fuel maps to keep the engine safe during the first part of your ride.
@@urmomsahoe1 letting the engine warm up never harms it more, theres less load and stress on parts and reducing wear and tear is key for longevity when not in operating state. A fuel map simply wont protect the materials the engine and bearings are made of aka metal
@@factoryrider9537 what about condensation in the oill? Are you aware of this? None of the experts have addressed this.
My carbed xj600 watching this video:
I seriously dislike people letting their bike idling for warm up. It has been proven decades ago, that a gentle drive warms everything up way faster with equal stress (i.e. none).
Both my bikes' owners manuals say to let it warm up a minute, so I do. Between the manufacturer's rec and your "serious dislike," guess which one I give half a crap about?
@@cisium1184 LOL, were you seriously offended to be so defensive?
I'm not talking about letting it idle for "a minute", while getting a helmet, gloves on, etc (as he stated in the video, actually).
I don't know what you are riding, but my manual doesn't state anything like that.
@@robertgrant8883 Not offended. I just enjoy ridiculing douchebags.
Stoked as hell you made it to Revzilla videos. I always liked your info and have watched your videos for years