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The S&W Revolver Key Lock: Is It A Big Deal Or A Great Deal?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 18 ส.ค. 2024
- I like to share my thoughts and learning with other people. One things I've discovered through my own experience is that the dreaded S&W revolver key lock is not as big of a negative as I once thought. And I actually have decided to look at it from a different point of view. It's probably a "Great Big Deal" to those of us who buy pre-owned guns.
Watch this video and share your thoughts.
Thanks...
I own a 686-6 that came with the lock. Excellent revolver but I removed the lock and replaced it with a metal plug. There is a gentleman in the Smith & Wesson forum that sells a quality plug and it gives me peace of mind that there is one less thing to worry about malfunctioning. And yes there have been reports of a few that locked up the revolver. They were placed on them during the Clinton era when S&W was bought out by the company Saf-T-Hammer. It was an inferior product carried over by that company and was a way to "compromise" with the political administration of that time. There is no reason for it today.
Interesting !
I personally would not remove the safety because if you used your revolver in a self defense situation the lawyers would have a field day with that.
Just by a pre-LOK 😊
@@vincentj3093 yeah, but you can be smarter than the other lawyer and make him look like a fool on the stand. If you get a good defense attorney you can explain how you did it to prevent the gun from ceasing up. You can give proven examples (you can find them) and have them printed out and presented before the court. You just gotta use your noodle a little bit. I've been on the defense before in court. Not for this but other things. Lawyers know the laws, but not much else. So use the knowledge you have to outwit their assault.
When I bought my first revolver the things I wanted was Stainless, 7 shot, 357 - 38, 2-1/2” Barrel.
The S&W hit all those wants and I bought a 686-6 w/Lock.
This revolver is truly a pleasure to own and use. The short barrel makes it ideal for a pancake holster and concealment. Ideal for me as I prefer to cross draw.
The lock has never been a concern of mine as I had no knowledge of the history of the locks.
I would prefer no lock but I sure don’t let it bother me or use it.
The little keys remain in the original box and that’s where they’ll stay.
I would never sell my 686-6 because of the lock feature.
It’s a fantastic revolver for my needs.
Thanks for sharing your knowledge on this topic.
Thank you. I first though I'd never buy one with the lock. I have two with locks now and have not a problem with either. Plus I paid must hundreds less for both compared to pre-lock models configured the same way.
Big Swoll58, I agree with you 100%. For $600, iMO that key lock looks amazing. I have the 686-6 and I am super happy with it.
It's really not as big of deal to me as it once was. They're still great revolvers with and without the locks.
I am happy to have found this channel. I have a handful of Smiths and enjoy the fact that you cover from purchasing, restoration to collecting.
Thank you Mr. Lopez...
I completely agree with you! BUT as a guy that goes to and works gun show tables I can tell you that most people 40 and under have no idea when certain changes took place by year or model number. Most, but not all, walk up to the table completely sure in their knowledge that all the “bad things” they have heard about S&W revolves on the forums or on TH-cam all happened at one time. So any Smith with a lock hole is full of MIM parts, two piece barrels non forged frames, plastic sights and so on. They don’t know a dash -1 from a 2022 model. The best part is when they see the prices on the “old beaters” with half moon sights. They have no idea they are highly collectible to some. To them it looks like a way out dated “beater” that should be priced at 200 or less so they can throw it in their tackle box or car trunk. And dealers are thieves for asking 2K plus for that old beater. There are some real trying days behind the counter at a gun show.
You are right Mr. Shaw. I've gone to many gun shows and concur with your comments. Gun shows are tough times for buyers and sellers now. Knowledge is key to negotiating a favorable deal. But that's true for both parties. Most buyers don't know or even care about the "dash" model differences. They just know that they like what they see and want it. Most buyers don't know what the fair market price is either But everyone has a budget or price in mind that they are willing to spend on an item. Supply, demand, availability, popularity and condition plays a significant role in determining fair pricing. So buyers and sellers need to apply that thinking to price expectations. That rarely happens.
As an under 40 something I can tell you most arent going to use them as a tackle box piece because most dont have a tackle box and live on instant ramen, krafts mac n cheese, and mcdonalds because they're lazy stoners. No that's not me, but a lot of em are.
I bought a model 27 brand new. It has the key lock and I've never noticed it other than occasionally seeing it. She still slaps and I get compliments at the range when I bring her out.
Beautiful gun BTW. I personally think the concern is great exaggerated. I don't worry about either of my lock gun either.
I could not agree more! I have several pinned and recessed Smith & Wesson revolvers but I came across a 600 Bargain on a S&W 629-6 in fine shape that was new old stock and unfired, and I redid the metal using your wet sanding and polishing method and am waiting on new custom wood grips for it! It's as nice and functional as any revolver, plus I ordered a spring kit to do trigger job!
Hell Yeah...! That's what I'm talking about. It doesn't mean that modern S&W's are as good as the vintage ones are. I'm saying that they are great guns and well worth the price you can get them for. I'd love to see it...
I won a bid on a 29-10 for a $1000.00 . It's just as nice and shoots just as well as my friends 29-2....@ 1/2 the price. You are spot on in your deductions, thanks.
Thank you. Like you, I can't tell the difference when I whole them and pull the trigger.
Great video, makes me happier with getting my 686 with the key lock despite trying to avoid it.
Thanks. You'll be happy with it. It's still an awesome gun.
So glad I ran across this channel. I totally prefer them without the key lock, but I don't think it deserves that much of a difference in value.
I totally agree, but that's what the current market sentiment is. Mind boggling.
"You live, you learn...and as you learn, you grow"...I always come away from this channel with more understanding than just the video.
Well said Sir. Thank you Mr. Martin.
I recently got my first S&W revolver. It was so hard to find a decent deal on a decent pre-lock gun I decided to settle for a brand new 66 with a lock. For $700 OTD I got a new not beat up, classic, slick action shooter that I know where it’s been. I would rather not have a lock but ironically it made it obtainable.
Great deal. Congratulations on your first S&W revolver. Just know that settling for a new one with the lock is not settling for a lesser quality gun. They're all excellent quality guns.
Yep. It's the principle, not the quality per se, that adds collector value. Love the content, keep it coming.
Thank you and understand.
100%…it’s principle.
Supply and demand dictate the disparity in prices between a dash 5 and a dash 6 with key lock.
If you are ok with bureaucrats making deals with, dictating, and imposing regulations onto firearms manufactures affecting what we can and can’t have then the key lock is not a big deal. 🤷🏻♂️
FINALLY a marture opinion about the key lock. Yes it's not ideal that S&W did that, but the entire gun community collectively crying about it endlessly like children and calling it "HIDEOUS" all need to relax a little bit. It's really not that serious.
Thank you Mr. Ma I feel that it's a little over blown too, but everyone is entitled to their own opinion. It seems sometimes that a lot opinions about it though is not from a negative experience, but just a contagious negative perspective. I don't like the look of it, but I've not had any negative experiences resulting from it.
I experienced this first hand just in the last few weeks searching for my first ever S&W Revolver to add to my collection. I feel like I have the advantage, simply because of my expectations. I am thoroughly please with my new 686-6. You can say ignorance is bliss. But so is your first S&W revolver, purchased way, way below average prices of the older models.
Mr. Meeks, that's not ignorance. You just haven't formed or been influenced to have a negative opinion about these guns. Hopefully you won't, and the lock will never matter to you.
You hit the mail on the head! I was exact same way regarding my preference for older S&W versions, and honestly still am….BUT my wife’s 686+ turned me around regarding my opinions on newer S&W’s. Then I started researching actual facts on MIM parts and the key lock. I found that while I prefer the 70’s-80’s S&W, i have zero problems with the newer. To your point on price, last month I was able to snag a 686 Pro Series for $500!! Only reason I could figure is because people didn’t want the lock. Their loss, our gain! My wife instantly claimed it and we love it as much as our older revolvers.
Exactly...! My only turn off is the round butts on 4" and longer barreled guns; and the crappy stocks they put on them. I have no problems other than that.
@@mr2275cur I’m not a fan of the black rubber grips or the round butt. Wife loves them. Trying to get her to pick out a sets of wood stocks for her 686+, but she refuses, lol! I did get a nice set of wood stocks with the 686 Pro Series though. But they’re still not as nice as the square butt wood
Nice video. I recently bought a 629-6 PC 44mag ported (2005). At first I didn’t like it because I had no idea about this lock. Then I watched videos like yours and many other experts and it’s a 100% reliable gun with the lock. Nothing wrong with it. No need to remove it. There is no documented cases with video where the lock failed.i completely learned how to take apart and all the internal mechanisms and its flawless
Great. I believe there is a minute amount of cases where locks have interfered with gun operations, but the percentage is so small that it's rarer than rare.
Thanks for sharing your experience as a buyer/collector. My only reason for buying a pre-lock version would be to get a K frame with a 6" barrel. S&W no longer makes those, which is a shame because I like the improvements they've made to the 19/66 with the ball and detent lock up and thicker forcing cone.
Thank you. I have a couple pre-lock 66's with 6" barrels. I like what S&W did with the 66/19 too. But I think they should have made the 66 with all SS parts.
I bought a model 69 with key lock for $719.69 + shipping and tax. Total about $850.00!! I have bought and sold guns for all of the past 50 years, and I think GREED is the big motivator to the huge cost increases! I have a LEW HORTON Pre-Classic Hunter, 6" with front adjustable front sight, one of 500 I was told, that I paid $400.00 NEW in the box, it is now valued at $1800.00+. I bought it in the 1980 era, and it is a beautiful blue and almost 99% perfect. I have it on the market as since I turned 70 and had a minor stroke I cannot handle the heft of it. I love S&W but I have bought my last one due to the greedy nature of the manufacturers! GREAT video, enjoyed it much!
Thank you Sir. I am very sorry to hear about your stroke. Thankfully it was minor. I hope you have a full recovery. Most of the greed is coming from private and retail sellers. I understand that prices are whatever the market dictates, but some prices are unusually high. But who am I to judge what people are willing to pay..
As a police officer I carried a 4 inch 629 with no lock. Smith sold us out on the Clinton hole. I will NOT buy one. Colt and Ruger have my business now.
I understand how you feel Sir. But do you think S&W sold out to the Clinton's; or did they sell out to Saf-T Hammer - which is the parent company that bought S&W and makes the actual hammer locks used in the revolvers. Just a question for thought.
I only own modern S&W revolvers but I have shot a few older models from the 70's and I can tell that they are different. Not saying better, but different and enough to make me want to start collecting at least a few of them. The old triggers are smoother and the guns feel different in your hand. But I just watched a great video from an old S&W Armor who was trained by S&W and he seemed to conclude that the new S&W Model 19 was an improvement over the old/original ones. That is apples to oranges. My S&W's have the key hole but are still built to last a lifetime. I guess I am old school and I will always prefer revolvers over semi-autos. Wheel guns to me will always be cooler; especially the Smith & Wessons. I can tell that my wife already knows I am about to make another purchase and it will probably be a 70's or 80's S&W. I think I want to get either an old 70's model 19 or 66 first. I will never have anything close to your amazing collection, but I now have the bug for sure. 🙂
I knew you'd get the "bug". It's highly contagious and has no cure. The only treatment is to give in and buy. As far as old versus new; they're definitely different. Not saying one is better than the other. It really boils down to preference. I prefer the robustness and actions of the older ones over the newer guns too. Congratulations on your next purchase. I'm sure it won't be your last.
I have wanted a 4" 686 + for awhile and and I've seen used ones for over $1000 and I saw a new one for $800 and I grabbed it, because the 686 + is actually a very practical weapon .
And now I have one and a couple weeks ago I didn't have one..
I have owned a 3" .357 K frame and a 3" Ruger SP101 and a 5" .357 Colt SAA Clone and I shoot the 5" revolver much better than the 3" ones ,
But the SAA revolver is undesirable for combat situations, compared to a DA Revolver
It was easy to train my mind to accept that it's not a collectors piece it's just the weapon that best meets my needs.
The 4" L frame is the right size to manage max .357 loads and it holds 7 shots - I like it
I watched the same video by Gunblue490, that man is a wealth of knowledge on S&W. I’m old school and he changed my mind on the new revolvers.
Very useful information. Did you polish your revolvers? They look amazing.
Thank you Sir. Yes I did.
It's a deal breaker.
I understand...
Hilary hole
What do you mean? Why is it bad?
@@Troubledboy88 It's a constant reminder of Smith & Wesson caving to the Clinton administration's radical gun control agenda.
That decision nearly bankrupted Smith & Wesson. It was Smith & Wesson's betrayal to the second amendment and to all gun owners worldwide.
There's a reason why pre-lock Smith & Wesson revolvers are held in higher esteem and higher value.
Understand That's why it's a big deal It's a constant reminder of how Smith & Wesson turtles back on the second amendment It's past present and future customers.
That in the fact that they removed the firing pin from the hammer to a transfer bar inside the frame That's another stupid move.
For me, it’s not a deal breaker on the steel k-frames on up. However, it’s a total deal breaker on the airweight and airlight models regardless of frame size. I either carry a 642 or an M&P340 as an on-duty backup. I wouldn’t carry a key lock model on the road. Too many bumps and bruises; I’m afraid that lock would engage at the worst possible time.
I bought a brand new S&W 617 this year with the key lock. It was really hard to find online and when I got it, it was really gritty. I own a 686-6 that’s buttery smooth and never had this issue.
I bought the Jerry Miculek trigger job video and decided to try and fix it myself. With the right knowledge, these revolvers are very easy to disassemble. Only tool required is a properly fitting flat tip screwdriver.
The polishing stone I used only cost $10. When I took off the side plate, there was a significant amount of what looked like sand inside the gun. I cleaned it up and polished it, just like Jerry did in his video.
Man, what a difference!!
I plan on putting the delete plug in my 617, I only use it as a range gun and just think it might look nicer. I never had a mechanical problem with the lock, just cosmetics.
It’s nice having a new revolver that nobody else has ever owned for a lower price, but I will say I do like the look of the classic 5 screw K Frame. I’m still 100% satisfied with these new guns and will never get rid of them, they’ll get passed down to my kids!!
Mike M, I'm glad that's all it was. Great job. I'm sure your pride and confidence levels are running high now; and they should be. Enjoy it my friend...!
@@mr2275cur I paid about $28 for Jerry’s spring kit, another $28 for his trigger job dvd, $10 for a fine Norton India stone and $5 for the polishing oil. Plus my own time and elbow grease.
I honestly feel like this gritty 617 was a blessing in disguise. With the smoother trigger pull, I’m able to consistently hit 6 inch steel plates at 25 yards. I landed 9 out of 10 shots with the first cylinder of ammo shooting double action.
I now believe Jerry’s videos are essential for any serious revolver shooter, the knowledge I gained for $28 is invaluable. My pride in ownership has dramatically increased and I would recommend it to anyone interested in improving their shooting experience.
Thanks for the video!!
@@mikem2132 Glad it turn out good. The experience you gained and the satisfaction of doing it yourself is definitely invaluable.
Very informative. I just bought a Model 66, it is awesome. For me I see the lock as a non-issue.
Congratulations. I hope you enjoy it.
I'm from Canada and prices are nuts and if it's 600$ difference in price because of a little key lock behind the thumb cylinder release is beyond me! I like how you said it & I completely agree...forget the -5 believe me because I have a 686-6 in a 6inch barrel....it's the best revolver I have ever shot except for my 19-3 nickle plate 6inch combat magnum...the light weight of the 357 ..amazing job a excellent view much appreciated Cheers!🙂✌🏼
Thank you.
@ARMORER1911 well they won't be importing guns to Canada as we have had a freeze on all handguns, So much to owning anything else. Cheers!
Heres a story for you! Bought a Classic model 36. Brand new. Got it home and was checking trigger action. After pulling hameer back a few times it began to get mushy. A few more pulls and it became inoperable, wouldnt budge, cylinder froze. Sent it to Smith for repair. Came back couple of weeks later. With it was a note stating that they had replaced 7 parts...........SEVEN!!!!!! And this was on a new gun. I couldnt believe what I was reading. Also, being a model 36 it was blued. Sorry, but the alledgied bluing looked like it was spray painted on. Sad to see the current state of Smith and Wesson products, not all maybe but some
Mr Dan, that's sad...! I would be PISSED big time...! I know "Stuff Happens", but somebody in QC was sleeping when they passed the gun.
What is the brand name of those beautiful grips and are you still happy with them?
Those are a pair I bought from www.gungrip.com. And yes I still like them.
While all of your points are certainly valid, if I had the money I'd definitely be splurging on one without that unsightly little dot 😀
Understood. Just save a little bit at a time and buy one.
I own a 686 plus-6 5". The lock is insignificant to me. I love my 686.
As it should be. The 5" is a great length too.
It is a big deal. There are some people who have a need for such a system, so it should be available on a few select models, but for everyone else they are just more small and fragile parts that might fail. Not to mention the locks are ugly. As long as Ruger and Colt are making guns I want without such a system, and I can still afford the occasional pre-2000 S&W, I'll concentrate on those. I am not terribly offended by the MIM parts nor the relocation of the firing pin, though I feel that did make the newer guns slightly less safe. I don't even have a problem with the new two-piece barrels. Other than the lock, the new S&Ws are very good guns.
Having said this, I think I may finally add my first lock equipped S&W soon as I vary much want one of the 4" 69s.
Understood.
That was a brilliant play-on-words at the end homie
I just purchased a 642 for CCW (yes, I have a compact auto too) I had a choice with or without the lock hole, same price, I chose without.
Makes sense... S&W should offer all models with the and without the lock option.
Hay Big Swoll. I believe the question is a little deeper than just the lock. Smith has been having other quality issues as well, such as the canted barrels and cylinders locking up from not cleaning up the machining.
I think if you're able to inspect the gun before purchase most issues can be found. However for people like me who buy most firearms on line, the thought of getting a lemon and having to return it is a huge turn off. I just paid $300 more for a dash 3 (unfired) than a new dash 6 would cost in 4 inch, and feel good about it. I get you're point though.
Love your channel and the logic you use to make this hobby affordable!!
Thank you Sir, and you are correct on all points. With all thing being equal between the "dash" models with the only difference being the key lock like -5's vs -6's; the -6 is an awesome deal.
Excellent review. New subscriber, due to your calm and professional manner. It's a demeanor that is so lacking in today's atmosphere. Thank youi.
Thank you dvet9. That's just my southern slow speaking at it's best.
Locks don’t bother me. I’ve seen a few videos stating the new guns are actually better built and more reliable than the pre lock guns. Having said that I understand people wanting the pre lock guns because they were built and fitted more by hand by craftsman.
I'm with you L J. The locks don't really bother me either. I just prefer the pre-lock models. I do think the lock detracts from the guns overall beauty though.
The lock is aesthetically unappealing. I purchased a new model 36 with the key lock and sold it within a year because I just hated that silly lock. A lock on a revolver is ridiculous. It took a while but I found a mint condition model without a lock and bought it at a fair price. Very happy now.
I understand Sir. Not everybody can get past them.
I bought a brand new 686+ 2.5" in 2024. It's dope. With or without a keylock, still hard AF. Gangster Shit!
Okay.
It is an introduced point of failure in case of an engagement of the lock. But due to the point it can be modified I would be fine with the newer versions of the pistol
You're correct, no doubt. Ant mechanical interface creates a failure opportunity. Only usage time and design can prove how reliable or unreliable that element will be. So far time and usage has proven this interface to be highly reliable.
I don't shoot my revolvers as much as I used to, but I'll say that I put a WHOLE lot of rounds years ago, both standard pressure and +p, through my old 637 .38spc with the lock and it always performed as it needed to. I don't have a problem with the lock.
Me either. I think if more people made that publis, it'd become less of a concern.
38 is pretty tame. .357 and .44 are a little more spicy and it is documented the lock actuating under sharp recoil. Pre lock or Colt for me until S&W deletes the lock.
I totally agree however I am a huge fan of the M10,13,64 and 65s revolvers and the addition of the key lock on the K frame killed the iconic look of the revolver. Mim parts I don't care about as I think they are fine if not we would hear about all the breakage of parts I am sure.
Agreed...
I agree with I have two 44 mags 629-6 both are incredible revolvers in my opinion.
Definitely.
I'm shocked the the keylock version is so much cheaper. I have never had a problem with the keylock. I'd never use it but I think most people feel this way. But, for the life of me I have no understanding why someone would remove it. For what reason?
I'm like you on that one too. Apparently there are some people that have convinced themselves (and others too) that the lock somehow diminishes the value and reliability of these guns. I'm not a fan either, but it's not personal or political ammo to me; nor does it sway my brand loyalty.
I have owned S&W revolvers since 1971. I have never owned one with a key lock and I never will.
I understand. It's a personal choice.
I will only buy used s&w revolvers in the price range 600 or less mostly 500. I guess that's why most of mine have alot of holster wear ect....I hope things calm down and revolvers go out of style again.
Well to be honest all of but a small few of mine $600-ish and less. So I do understand. Holster wear is no big deal on a SS gun. t can be easily remedied.
@@mr2275cur Thanks Big swolf58. I may start seeking SS revolvers more then I have been. You have a great polishing video if I remember. Happy holidays to you and yours.
@@tomr3074 Thank you Sir. Merry Christmas to you as well. Remember, patience and persistence for the gun and price.
Very logical - still don't like the Hillary hole (never had any keylock issues), but you make a solid point.
Thank you Mr. Churchill...
I brought my new 686-6 2.5” home, dry fired once, pulled the trigger a second time and it locked up by itself. I tried unlocking with the provided key and it wouldn’t unlock. I purchased a lock delete kit and replaced all the springs with lighter ones while at it.
Mr.. Nunez, it sounds like you bought a defective gun. I would have sent it back to S&W or took it back the dealer where it bought it. A gun that locks while dry firing has an issue with the mechanical function.
I think the absence of the key lock and the firing pin on the hammer absolutely increases the value of the firearm for us old timers, for the younger generation no I myself paid more than I should have for a no dash model, another great video
Proganda and Paranoia have pushed this to a silly level... Good reality based information... Thank You Sir... Keep collecting and enjoying your great deals...
Thank you Mr. Lee. Your choice of words are spot on. It really is a lot of propaganda and paranoia that has tarnished an otherwise great gun. .
I got a 686-6 talk edition picked it up used about a year ago for 650 and, to me at least, it is worth every penny.
*talo
It's absolutely worth every penny...
I just ordered a S&W M60 new ,,,,,,,,,,,,,I actually like the non-lock hole guns and i like the older hammers with the floating firing pin ,,,but the last time i went to a gun show you had to fight through the crowd to get to a table ...So i said the heck with gun shows,,,, and there is something to be said for buying something brand new ....First time ive ever ordered/bought a new gun where im almost apologizing for it lol...I have a model 19 from 1978 that i drool over but i dont shoot that...I do agree with you that it is really kinda silly to make too much out of that Hillary hole .....Enjoyed your video
Thank you Mr. Fiser. I with you; I do not like gun shows much anymore. The selection is sub-par, and the prices are above average. A new gun is kinda like that new car; it feels good to know you're the first one to own it. I'd be hard to shoot that Model 19 though. I believe I'd run a hole lot of .38 spl +P's through it and enjoy it. But that's me speculating..
I don’t know why people hate the key locks. I think it’s a great safety feature.
Really! I bet if you ask, they will surely tell you why. I don't like them either, but what can you do.
Hey brother, I have subscribed to your videos and have watched many of them. I have had an experience you might be interested in. I was lucky enough to find and purchase a new 629 Classic in March 2021. The cylinder release bolt was binding on the internal lock flag. If I pushed the cylinder release forward, the lock flag raised upwards a little bit. It required about four times the force to push the cylinder release on the 629 than it took on my 686. I exchanged a few emails with S&W, and they eventually asked me to send it to them for warranty work. S&W had it for four weeks, and when they sent it back, it wasn't fixed. I took it to a local gunsmith and paid him $42 to fix it. Now, the cylinder release bolt moving back and forth inside the frame does not bind against the internal lock flag. (I am not confident enough of my abilities to remove the side plate of the revolver and fix something like that myself.)
Well, you did the right thing by sending it back to S&W because it's a new gun. It's shameful on their part that they didn't fix it. S&W revolvers are really simple mechanically. But if you don't feel confident you did the right thing. to have a gunsmith correct it.
I bought a Bersa .380 with an internal lock. It was no big deal. But when I got my S&W 642 Airweight and saw it had an internal lock, I just about had kittens! Why do I have no issue with the Bersa yet I got spun up over the S&W? I had to step back and admit to myself I wasn't being logical about this. After that, the S&W internal lock didn't bother me.
Kittens...! LOL... Damn Booboobear...! Yeah I avoided the lock guns for years, until I bought my 629 TALO revolver. It's beautiful and shoots just as good and just as reliably as my -pre-lock guns. So the lock is not an issue with me anymore either. I still prefer the pre-lock guns, but it''s mostly an aesthetics issue now.
I know the lock doesn't change the way it shoots but I hate the way it looks just my opinion and I own this same revolver the smith 686-6 but if I ever get another I'd just go with ruger
I'm not a fan of the lock either. But it doesn't bother me as much as it once did. I'd still rather have one with the lock versus a Ruger though. Ruger's are totally different. Great, but definitely different.
When sw put those locks in, it nearly broke sw worse to the point that when they had given up. That lock company snatched up sw as the new owners.
I think the locks are going to stay on the guns as long as Safe T lock owns the company.
Jerry Miculek - “In general, todays S&W are built with tighter tolerances and better parts than the guns were years ago and have less issues on timing, etc”
There is no denying that Mr. Saul, they are. But not by leaps and bounds. It's a matter of a 9 versus a 10. Plus better built doesn't necessarily equate to better looking or more desirable. Old schoolers still prefer the earlier pre-lock guns.
@@mr2275cur I hear ya, I would prefer a no lock myself if I could only pick one but I agree that new and old are both desirable.
New to S&W revolvers. Learned allot from your videos. Thanks for sharing all your experience.
You are welcome Mr. Inphx. And Welcome to the revolver world.
I have to know how do you polish your stainless revolvers. They look incredible.
Thank you. I use a combination of wet sanding with 1000 - 3000 grit sandpaper to remove the scratches on most of them. Then I finish with Mother's Mag & Aluminum Polish and Johnson's Paste Wax.
I bought a 629 6 3 inch for 800.00 and I found a 629-4 4 inch for 1100.00 and I'm happy
You should be happy. You just bought two awesome revolvers. Congratulations.
Great video , i love Smith and Wessons revolvers ,the ones i have are prelock from the early 90s brand new purchase. One is the Model 66 and the other is an Model 649 38.spl . Im still up for grabs about the QC issues i've been hearing about in recent times. But i'm still looking to get my hands on a 686, two and a half inch or four inch .
I think S&W QC issues and concerns are a little bit exaggerated sometimes. I have 3 three modern revolvers; 2 with the hammer locks. None of them have any issues. If you just happen to buy one with an issue, S&W will resolve it under the warranty. But I think that probability is very low.
If I could basically buy two SW revolvers with a lock or one without the lock for the same price and the 2 are new and the 1 is used I can deal with the lock.
Me and you both...
Good. Go buy two new ones with a lock and leave the nicer ones for the rest of us.
@@UrielX1212 Your broke ass can’t afford either one so what difference does it make!!!
There are known incidents of the lock becoming locked during firing and recoil.
No doubt about it Mr. Williams. I've heard and read about it also,. But I don't know of anyone personally, nor have I ever seen it happen myself. I only have key-lock S&W revolvers, and I've not had an issue with either of mine. I believe the actual number of is events is really, really small percentage of guns produced .
Even lock guns are going for a grand now. I just rip the flags out. I’ve installed plugs in a few. But for the most part you just pull the flag and it’s good to go. Cheers.
I've been on the fringe of buying a chrome 4 inch 686+ for about 10 years now... the keyhole still looks stupid in 2023 it makes me wonder why they still make them like that
I understand you completely. I wonder the same thing. It doesn't make the any more or less safe to have it. It's just useless for the purpose they intended. I don't like them, but it won't keep me from buying a gun that I really want if I can't find one without it.
Bravo. I also figured this out just in time to buy my 686-6.
Great. I'm sure you saved yourself a lot money by buying the -6.
I agree. Yeah, the pre-locks look a bit nicer but not for price most are asking.
Most definitely...
Bought a SW 686 with internal lock. Went to range and fired 3 shots and it locked up. Definitely looking to get it removed.
WOW..! If it is new, I'd send it back to S&W first. It's probably a factory defect or parts fitting issue.
The people who broke into my home one night sure we pleased I could not insert the key properly in the dark. Good news is there were several semi-autos with loaded magazines ready to go.
Man, I am so sorry that happened. I sincerely hope that no one was hurt.
So this is a new road for me(locks). I think it takes away slightly from the look. Also, I think people are concealed it my lock on you when you need it. Or malfunction.
I agree that it is an unattractive addition to the revolvers. I've not heard anyone that disagrees with that. But I'm still not even mildly concerned about the lock malfunctioning. But I do know that others are. Either way, it wouldn't stop me from buying one if the price is right.
For people who hated the internal lock and spend more money buying a pre-lock, they would be pissed if Smith & Wesson decides to get rid of the lock in the next generation. lol
Agreed.. Can you imagine how much sales would increase if they did. Although it really doesn't matter to me at this point, but I wish they would dump the internal locks myself. I think they should offer some models with or without them.
@@mr2275cur I discover Smith&Wesson has started to offer some of their models without the locks, like model 642 and 340. So maybe it will one day offer it for 686+ too. :)
Don’t get me wrong I’m not trying to sell on your channel but I trust your opinion on a 4” combat version of a revolver incollecors condition, thanks ( please talk me out of selling it)
Mr. White, I am so sorry for responding to this before now. Not sure how I missed it. I don't know if you still have this gun or not. But you rarely find a 686-5 for sell, so that will have to be considered in your price. Plus it's that last version without the hammer lock. I don't like to make suggestions like this, but I'd say $900 or more.
I can't argue with that.
Oh Yeah...
Great info video. I am considering selling a 686 no-dash, but having a tough time deciding. Cheers :)
Don't sell it. You'll regret it...
Great points! If all you want is a great looking shooter, why pay that much more for a newer MIM gun just to get it sans IL?
Thank you.
I'm all over your channel those grips are great! If you know do they make them for the taurus 856 Defender 3"barrel ?
Well said Sir. Love your collection beatiful I must say. I have quiet a few S&W's prelock revolvers. I choose to stay away from the new models and MIM's parts although they are very functional. Gun smithing back in the day was mutch better than today. I will admit I did get a new S&W 686-6 plus 3 in. I looked for years for a 3 in pre-lock and could not find one so I caved.
Well, as you can see, I caved too Mr. Brown. Although I must admit that it's a great gun and I like it a lot. But I still prefer the pre-lock, pre-MIM parts guns.
@@mr2275cur thank you sir and your videos are very educational and helpful. Last week on Wednesday at my local gun shop I did pick up a very nice model 19-3 in very good condition. I took your advise on the 3 T's it all matched up. The price was a good deal tax and all $ 620 out the door it did not have the original box.
@@ronbrown6388 That is a good deal Sir. I looked at a VGC 19-5 a week ago at a local shop. They're asking $699 before tax. It's a 6" model, so I wasn't really interested. Plus it was more than I was willing to pay anyway.
Not a big deal. Just don’t lock it . It is your property. 😎
Absolutely...
Im sure the revolvers work just the same with or without the keylock . Personnally, its an esthetics issue on my part. I just thinks it marrs the nice lines of a revolver. If and when thry get rid of the keylock i may buy one.
Your S&W revolvers shine like they have been polished. What do you do to get them to shine so brightly? Thanks.
Thank you Mr. Conger. I usually wet sand them with 1000, 1500, 2000, 2500 and 3000 grit sandpaper; depending on condition and amount of scratches present. Then follow up by polishing with Mother's Mag & Aluminium Polish.
Great video. In my opinion, the people who gripe about the key lock are really making a political statement. There is no evidence of revolvers with key locks being more prone to malfunction. Do you really think that the S&W company are idiots who would make a gun that presents a danger for the owner? I have a S&W six inch barrel in stainless, with the key lock and love it.
😆
@@troutslayer5518 Beta loser.
i have couple with locks too, and I've not a failure or concern of failure. I'll worry about it if it happens.
@@davidsaul2707 why because I like Dave Chappelle
Your wrong. I bought a 686 with internal lock and it locked up after 3 shots. Not reliable at all
Have you ever gave thought to installing the lock delete plug ??
I have them on several of my Smith and Wesson’s
Yeah, I considered it, but decided not to. The lock doesn't bother me too much. I'd rather change to hammer / Firing pin arrangement that the lock.
When u understand the lock was put in place in trade for government contracts. Nothing to do with lawyers and safety.
There are so many opinions and "facts" about why S&W added locks to there revolvers. That was done 20 years ago, but some people still feel strongly about it.
I won't buy another S&W with a Hillary hole. Pre locks and Colt until they delete the damn lock!
👍🏿👍🏿👍🏿
What grips are on the 686-6 there ? And where can you order them from?
N C Ordinance Goncalo Alves Combat Reproductions. www.Gungrips.com
I own a safe and quality holster. I don't need the key lock...
Okay...
I think that S&W should have machined them out of stainless to compliment the pistol's looks, rather than detract so much.
But I pull them and run the polished plugs, then polish the pistol further with the plug in place. To me that brings some of the looks back.
You are so right about that...
I believe its what's desirable due to allegations of the lock being activated during operation I take the 600
I know about the allegations, and its everyone's personal preference. But with all things considered, I'll take a key lock and proven performance with the $600 - $800 savings everyday of the millennium. I'll always prefer the pre-lock -5 over the -6, but really ; does that single difference justify the huge difference in price. That's the question I'm asking...
@@mr2275cur no they playing on personal preference
I would put it, to some degree, in the category of vintage rolex's. I could buy a 16610 rolex for 3500 20 years ago. Those are now 6-7k. My vintage GMT I bout 27 years ago for 4500 is no worth almost 15k. People like the originals. Anything added for "government" compliance reduces the value in the current market. The old guns have a "story".
Mr. Chilton, it must be nice to own Rolex's. I don't know anything about them, but I get your point. The new Smith's are still nice, but I too prefer the early models.
@@mr2275cur best name ever “bigswoll” lol
@@therealmarkchilton A Kid gave it to me back when i was a gym nut and novice bodybuilder... It kinda "stuck".
Do you polish your own revolvers? They look great!
Yes Sir... Thank you.
I have both,lock and pre lock.pre lock are more of a collector value than the lock version,but the lock does not affect the accuracy of the revolver, saying that I say buy what you can afford in your price range ,shoot them and enjoy
Just the fact that they have to be there
I don’t even think about,some let that bother them,oh well.
I think most people who are opposed to it, are for reliability and appearance reasons. It's an addition that is simply not needed and could impact reliability.
@@mr2275cur I hear ya,never use mine never will
I’ve spoken to you about my686-5 4” combat revolver (and it’s pristine) I may consider selling to a collector who would appreciate it, I don’t like the political aspect of the key lock myself but the686-5 that I’ve kept for20 years is worth way too much to me, what do you think?
Strictly your call, But think about it before you do. I've sold guns too for the same reason, and regretted it soon afterwards. You can replace it, but it won't be your original gun.
@@mr2275cur thank you buddy
S&w was great until they put the law and key on it it's horrible. I've been buying Smith & Wesson half of my life and now I switched over to Colt.
I understand and don't like the locks either. I hasn't stop me rom buying them, but I'd rather have one without the lock whenever possible.
Just a respectful observation / comment. If this lock is so desirable why does S&W not also install these on other firearms in the line, like the carbines and semiauto pistols ? Why do not all the competitors copy this feature, admittedly some do but not the majority. The keylock is fine for those wanting those and they should have that. But that can also be accomplished by using a padded handcuff or padlock in the frame window or trigger guard or even disassembling the cylinder. Some folks resent imposition of being told what to do which the lock where it is positioned sets them off. Supposedly S&W made a political lawyer deal with the Clinton Administration to invent the and the owners of 'Smith had a lock manufacturing company in the portfolio. Initially the magnum lightweight revolvers had an issue that the springs were underpowered and like hitting the lottery rarely engaged under recoil impact while firing, which got told known far and wide. An absent minded friend, a business owner, had a Ruger P345 wth a slide mounted key lock. At home he locked the gun for safety from the kids. Forgot to unlock it and days later realized his mistake at the gun club. The Range Safety Officer had keys for S&W, Taurus, and Ruger, and rescued him. I sent my own S&W lock revolvers to a gunsmith 1 at a time to remove them and plug the holes. Very satisfied with and confident in the guns.
Thank you Mr. Kluesek for you respectful comment. I don't think I implied that these locks were desirable. I don't know anyone that really like or want them. I myself don't even like them. My question is that is it so big of an issue, that it totally detracts from the guns. Or is the lock a hidden value because they have obviously kept the prices down on what is still an awesome revolver. I've read the political stuff about a deal made with the Clinton's and such; and don't know if thats true or not. However, what is true is that the company the currently owns S&W also makes the lock systems installed on their revolvers. This appears to more of a business decision rather than a political one.
@@mr2275cur I concur with your observation that the umbrella entity owning S&W makes those locks and installs these for a monetary reason. I like the revolvers, all the generations, and now prefer stainless models for ease of cleaning without marring beautiful blue finishes especially on the cylinders and holster wear on the muzzles. For removal of the locks there's a 1 man business, Lock Delete, in Arizona from whom I bought the parts to plug the holes left by the locks and on 1 K frame the gunsmith doing that job filled the flag slot. Satisfied with the results, and content with the guns.
@@richardkluesek4301 I've been contemplating buying and installing a delete kit for my 686-6. I don't know, I haven't convinced myself yet if it's worth is to me. It'll probably look better than the lock, and it removes the minute concern I have about the lock. But it's like replacing one eyesore with a lesser noticeable one in the end.
@@mr2275cur I own J and K s and have installed on both types, the plugs can be matched to various finishes, my assortment are all stainless. The thumbpiece partially conceals the hole and plug and has a look that reminds me of the pre numbered model designations of 1940s and prior guns that have a pinhead just beneath the thumb piece. BTW I always wondered what that pin was for and why it disappeared from the numbered models. Would you know ? Keep in mind too that the current J framed revolvers with the lock have a tiny second pin for the designation flag to rotate not found on larger guns and there is no filler for that hole. The slot for the flag still remains except on 1 K frame gun my friend had done by Karl at Chestnut Mountain Sports in Vermont but they expect to do costly total rebuilds on guns to charge in the 2 to 3 thousand dollar range according to my source.
@@richardkluesek4301 No, I don't know what that pinhole was ever for. I guess i can research it when I get the time.
Why does S&W insist on the keylock? It’s the only manufacturer that has it. Why include a feature that almost every potential customer hates?
Correct. I agree with you on that. I believe that it's because the company that makes the locks now owns S&W. So it's now simply a business matter. Every revolver gets a lock; that's guaranteed sales revenue.
@@mr2275cur Thanks. Yours is the first and only explanation I’ve seen.
@@mr2275cur I would think Smith & Wesson would make more money if they make two version, one with lock and one without. Like you say, they can charge double the price for one without the lock since the public is willing to pay. So they will still continue to make money from the locks since people like us prefer the bargain and they can rip off the other customers who hates the lock. Win Win. lol
Thanks for the insightful video. You make good points. And your collection of S&W revolvers is impressive. Since your video asks, here are my two cents. I understand that the chances of the lock failing during use is remote, but there are examples, including one or more documented cases on TH-cam, of these locks failing during use. I know the chances are extremely remote that the lock would fail (fail as in vibrate from unlocked into locked position) at the exact moment I need to rely on the gun to save my family. But the reason I prefer revolvers (including my two S&W 357s --models 686 and 66) over semiautomatics is the foolproof certainty that the gun will discharge when I need it to; the fewer the moving parts the less likely I will encounter a fatal failure. So to me, if I were buying a gun to add to a collection or primarily for range shooting, saving money and buying the less-desirable keyed gun would be just fine, and I'd do it; as you say rightly, it's still a very good gun. But because my primary purpose is family and personal protection, for confident reliability I'm sticking with my old-school S&Ws, with no lock mechanism.
Your point is well taken and fully understood. If I have any doubts or uncertainties whatsoever, I'd not buy or use one of the key locked revolvers for personal defense. But for my sake, I'm speaking merely from a buying sensibility standpoint and price. Thanks for your response. It is very well though out and presented..
I agree. Thanks for a great video.
Thank you Sir for watching...
People make to big a deal about the locks , mim parts , firing pins ect ... All of my Smiths are fine guns and now they are warranted for life , something that was unheard of with the old guns. People mistake mim for pot metal and that couldn’t be further from the truth. Can you build bad mim parts ? Absolutely but S&W didn’t do that and the triggers and hammers last a long time , I haven’t been able to break one yet and I shoot allot .
You're right Mr. Kimball. There is nothing inherently wrong with MIM parts. I think people as a whole don't understand the manufacturing method, so they believe they're substandard or inferior to forged parts. Plus theirs too much 'bad press' on social forums about the use. I don't have an issue with them; I just prefer the look and feel of the older revolvers.