The thing that kind of "intuitively" sold Y-Wings being bombers for me was the turret gun. Yeah there were a few fighter designs with turrets, but almost all models of propeller (and even some Soviet jet) bombers feature defensive turrets.
Some american jet bombers, such as the B-52 used turrets too as late as Vietnam. Though those have been eliminated in more modern models. The extra weight and drag was not considered worth it as they were largely ineffective against interceptors and their long-range missiles.
@@AdmiralBlackstar Which thus makes it a perfect addition for a bomber in Star Wars - Drag isn't a big issue, while the extra defensive capability can be quite useful in the gun/knife-fight ranges of Star Wars dogfights, or they can deliver additional damage to a bombing target. And, of course, they can also be a specialized secondary weapon, as with the Y-Wing, where its ion cannons can be instead used to disable enemy fighters or transports or the sub-systems aboard ships, or just do heavier damage to the shields to help soften it up for the bombing run, either way giving the bomber more versatility than just "hit target hard".
@@kanedaadenak7088 Plenty of examples from World War II of fighters (along with light/dive/torpedo bombers) with turrets, and even if you want to only cunt the light/dive/torpedo bombers... Well that just kind of reinforces the point RE: the Y-Wing *looking* like a bomber.
The Mosquito didn’t… sacrificing defensive armament for speed. Neither did it’s replacement the Canberra. By the 60s no new bomber designs had defensive armament except the Soviet ones. Just goes to show that Star Wars uses a lot of outdated ideas even from a 20th century earth perspective. Like how cruisers have gun ports and blast each other with broadsides as if they were 17th century men o’ war. They missed the development of the gun turret, long range guided munitions, and the use of smaller craft to fight battles at ranges where they can’t even see each other like in the Pacific Ocean in the early 1940s.
My first Star Wars toy back in 77 was a die-cast Y-wing. On the box it was called a Fighter/Bomber. Had a rear gunner and turret, and a red bomb you could drop. And the engine pylons could be ejected, for some reason.
I’m in my fifties and remember that one growing up. I believe the pylons ejected to represent crash damage, or the ship exploding or something along those lines.
Fortunately, I still have mine. There isn't a gunner; only the pilot is in the cockpit. You press the silver "droid" behind the cockpit to jettison the bomb (which I sadly lost some time ago).
I remember when SW came out, I was told by another little kid on the playground that Vader wore his suit and breathed like he did because he fought a lightsaber duel and fell into a volcano. Being 6 or 7 years old, I just kinda accepted that, and when Ep3 came out 30 years later and it turned out to be true I was very much surprised. In the early days right after the movie came out, Lucas and the cast and crew were interviewed by hundreds of different TV shows, magazines and newspapers. In the early days, any info they had about the story and characters was media gold, and Lucas at that point was a real chatterbox, and answered just about any question put to him. It's no secret that he loved drawing inspiration from old movies, and would talk about it at length in the early days to anyone willing to listen before he realized that he should hold his cards closer to his vest if he wanted to make sequels. I can pretty much guarantee that the Y-Wing as a bomber thing came from one of these early interviews, where he was talking about how the trench run was inspired by The Dam Busters and 633 Squadron.
The confit of Vader being harmed by falling into a molten pit or volcano was something I remember hearing as a child as well during the OT release years. The RotJ novelization mentions lava or something molten burning Vader’s back during his duel with Kenobi, but it seems the notion of Vader being burned and his lungs being damaged from fumes is pretty old, but once again it primary source is forgotten.
He probably just read Bantha Tracks. The fan newsletter. My neighbor always knew shit before me. I never figured it out until we got older. He also had a Bespin Luke jacket.
@@dufjdh3u87rhhdbhfhd You are correct. Though I can't remember if Bantha Tracks was part of the official fan club stuff sent out. Unfortunately we could afford the Bespin Jacket. But yea, I remember that Vader being in the suit because of a dual between Kenobi that took place in a steel factory was known before Jedi and maybe even before (right before) Empire. I also want to say that the first iteration of that either included or hinted at that it was a 3 way duel between Vader, Annikin, and Kenobi. But I won't swear to that because it has been an age.
Actually Vader's story with the duel and the lava was in the 1976 novelization of A New Hope. Yes, the book was there first! The battle on board of the Tantive IV is a lot more fierce in it, especially Vader's role. Fun fact: During the Deathstar attack Luke is part of Blue Squadron (back then blue screen wouldn't allow blue colours, so it became red) and the trench system of the Deathstar is way more complex.
The Aurek Starfighter was in service for thousands of years. But yes, the Y-wing is a very under appreciated craft that it’s too overshadowed by the X-Wing.
It really does go to show how amazing many ship designs in Star Wars are to where me and many others just intuitively know what their purposes are without really looking like their real world equivalent. I always thought the Y wing looked like a bomber ship and I think it’s cause of how “slow” they fly relative to other ships and also how it has a ball turret looking gunner area and they just otherwise don’t look as quick as the other ships we see
thanks for the y-wing deep dive! It was always my favorite fighter for its weapons loadout and gun placement. In the original X-Wing DOS game, it was by far the most capable fighter, even if people hated it for being slow and having bad maneuverability. Those people just need to Get Good.
The maneuverability wasn't even THAT bad, and when you shifted all power to the engines, it had a respectable speed. You could even headbutt TIE's in jousts with double forward shields and bust them without taking any damage.
There is a variant of the Y-wing featured in the Jedi Prince/Lost City of the Jedi novels that is a troop transport variant. Apparently there was a problem with the Falcon so Luke, Han, Chewie, the droids, and Ken took this ship instead. It was apparently large enough to have a starboard boarding ramp and an armory. It is even illustrated.
The Y-Wing is referred to by name in both the novelization of Episode IV and Splinter of the Mind’s Eye (the first Expanded Universe novel); I just checked in my vintage copies 😊 It IS referred to as a fighter in both instances, but that does not detract from its role as a fighter-bomber
to me.. no matter what referense says what.. its either a fighter bomber.. or a heavy fighter.. either way.. my favourite star wars ship.. and i love using it in ANY star wars game that has them over and above any hero ship
The Y-Wing is still to this day one of my favorite starfighters, if not my favorite (The N1 is the only direct challenge). That said, I agree. The way it behaves even in Ep4 lends to a "Fighter/Bomber" role. Even the mention in Splenter of the Minds Eye brings up the 2 seater config, which reflects this. On that note, it may be more appropriate to refer to it as a Scout Bomber akin to the real-life SBD Dauntless Dive Bomber which itself was a Scout Bomber but also could hold it's own in a dogfight if needed (only DB with a positive K/D rate in air to air combat) and could take a beating. This fits given George Lucas based a lot of Star Wars tech on WW2 tech and equipment.
I feel like anyone who played Tie Fighter by Lucasarts learned pretty fast that you had to react to the squadron of Y-Wings showing up on the battlefield otherwise they would nuke down one of your light capital ships in no time.
Every time I hear Y wing I hear “The Y-wing is the workhorse of the rebel fleet. It’s not quick, or flashy, but it gets the job done.” I forget the rest, but guess that game.
The Y-Wing Fighter was included in the Star Wars Sketchbook book that came out right after the first movie, and was named as such. It predated any of the toys releases; I had that book before the die cast ever came out which was after ‘77. The large Y-Wing the figures fit into came out around the time of Jedi. I still have all three.
The Y Wing makes me think of a WW2 torpedo bomber. It is relatively slow with limited agility but carries heavy ordinance for is size. It even has a rotating turret.
@@MrChickennugget360 Well, I wasn't rally clear, which is my fault, but by 'A-10' I meant that the Y-wing may be slower then other craft in the alliance....slash 'Republic' and finally 'Resistance' and blah, blah, blah, anyways, it may have been slower then the others, but can take a beating, which is how some would describe the A-10 as being.
I think of the Y-Wing as a "multirole" craft, hence fighter/bomber. It can do both, but is neither a heavy bomber nor an optimized dogfighting craft. The Y-Wings of Gold Squadron were definitely supposed to make the proton torpedo hit on the first Death Star, which X-Wings flew cover and kept hte fighters off their backs. It didn't work out that way, and I think there was a lot of doubt that a less sturdy X-Wing could even survive down in the trench and make that hit - The Force not withstanding of course.
@brianjl7477 I'd say the X-Wing is a multirole fighter and the Y-Wing being an assault fighter-bomber (basically a bomber in the body of a fighter). The X-Wing flies as space superiority due to being the most maneuverable craft of the two as well as decent endurance, but in comparison to a TIE (fighter and interceptor) the X-Wing doesn't handle knife fights all that well. The X-Wings also had proton torpedoes. The Y-Wing is mainly used to assault capital ships and ground targets, whereas the B-wing is THE dedicated anti-capital starfighter with the TIE Bomber being dedicated against ground targets. Still, the Y-Wing would be worse at turn fights compared to other fighters save for the B-Wing and TIE Bomber.
Fun fact: The Y-wings we see in the Clone Wars series are officially the same model/ship of Y-wings we see in A New Hope, they’re just heavily modified and stripped down versions of the Republic Y-wings.
If you consider Lucas' own times, apart from the well-known WWII metaphors, I tend to think of the Y-wing as a figher-attack plane a la Vietnam and the X-wing as something a bit later like an F/A 18 . It's obviously not how they were used in A New Hope but in say X-Wing Alliance, if you load Y-wings out with Advanced Missiles , you basically have a missile truck that can keep Imperial fighter screens on the back foot before they even really engage while you close with ion cannons and stuff and the more-dogfightey Reb planes clean up behind you.
I think the biggest "indicator" of the Y-Wing's bomber role was the Yavin briefing. The animation showed the attacking ship dropping its ordinance on the Death Star like a bomber. Since the Y-Wings were the designated attack ships for the DS trench run, it leads one to assume that they were bombers. The Y-Wing is my favorite SW fighter craft, even over the X-Wing. I'm glad it has gotten so much lore added to it. Suggestion: You should do a dedicated episode on the Brian Daley HAN SOLO ADVENTURES. It was the first EU for those who saw the OT in the theaters on opening week, and the stories really hold up. If they ever do another SOLO movie, it should be HAN SOLO'S REVENGE....
@seekertwo1 Tbf, the dropping of ordnance as seen in the animation looks like simplified graphics. I mean, why does the DS in the same briefing have the laser dish in the middle as opposed to off-center (towards the top).
The fact that the Y-wing wasn't shown dogfighting in A New Hope may have more to do with the time restrictions on the filmmakers, rather than some delineation that Lucas made between the X and Y wings. Perhaps, when crunched for time, the special effects team focused on filming the X-wing over the y-wing. Alternately, the filmmakers might have thought that the X-wing looked more dramatic from more angles that the y-wing did, and that's why it got the spotlight. Similar to why the B-wing didn't get as much play in RotJ as one would have expected, given it was a new design for that film, and the desire to showcase it to drive toy sales.
It always bothered me that the names of Rebel fighters were just "Y-wing" "X-wing" "A-wing" but my head cannon is that only the Y-wing and X-wing are "officially" named that- the rest are just nicknames given by Rebel Starfighter Crew and maintenance personal. The "A-wing" is Just a modified R-22 "Spearhead" (which nobody in the Rebel Starfighter corps would ever call it in a similar manner to no one in the Airforce calling an A-10 Warthog a "Thunderbolt II")(with upgraded models classed as RZ-1s) Koensayer named the Y-wing after the fact that its intended to be a highly modular starship. The idea being it's simply a cockpit, a drive core, a Hyperdrive and a pair of engines with a highly modifiable design. Y-wings became the backbone due to that flexibility they were a ship that could be modified to be attack-strike, heavy ordinance carrier, long range scout, or general-purpose fighter. It was never the best at each of these respective roles, but it could be modified to do any of them. Early on this is why the Rebels often used only Y-wings. The reason for the many version of the Y-wing designation such as BTL or A4 etc is that these represent different configurations that the Core "Y-wing" space frame could be converted into. one neat concept of the Y-wing was it being plated in Durasteel armor. Originally Y-wings were deployed fully armored in Durasteel, this plating was removable for maintenance and for modularity purposes but because Durasteel is expensive and a controlled material via Imperial doctrine most had these plates removed when in service with planetary militias. However, the Cockpit is built inside a Durasteel bathtub which is not able to be removed so Rebel fighters lacked the heavy plating on every part of the ship except the cockpit, as well as the forward section of the Engine nasals which was built into the forward engine coil to protect it from incoming plasma blasts from the forward direction. This gave rebel pilots flying Y-wings strong protection in frontal attacks as most blasters had difficulty punching through durasteel making Y-wings dangerous to attack head on. X-wing gets its name from Incomm attempting to capitalize on the success of the "Y-wing" it was introduced as the T-65 "X-wing" it is designed to a have the strengths of Incomm's two most popular fighters from the Clone War era: the ARC-170 for its long range and high firepower and the Z-95 Headhunter for its dog fighting ability. It was also intended like All Incomm ships to be VERY easy to fly. Unfortunately only a tiny number of T-65A fighters were produced before the Empire discovered that Rebel sympathizers in the company were sharing technical data and transferring fighters to Rebel combat cells. Before tehy could be seized and shut down Company sympathizers and Rebel agents worked to transfer the plans as well as critical machine manufacturing tools (along with thousands of critical spare parts including 247 spare hyperdrives) Within a year of these events the Rebels had set up factories to manufacture T-65Bs for Rebel service. However because Rebels could not acquire some of the components on the black market (or from surplus market) The Incomm T-65B was inferior to the original T-65A including an older fire control system and a shared hyperdrive with the Y-wing. T-65As were used primary by senior Rebel Starfighter officers (such as Blue Leader) the overwhelming majority of Rebel X-wing pilots flew T-65Bs. Later on by the battle of Endor the T-65C was being produced which upgraded the shields and fire control systems. With the popularity of the "Y-wing" and "X-wing" names alongside the victories at Scarif and Yavin it became popular for Rebels to call any snub-fighter by a "Wing" name thus RZ-1s came to be called "A-wings" and A/SF-01 starship killers came to be called "B-wings" (even though many complained they looked more like a T) This tradition followed with K-wing Heavy bombers and D-wing light fighters.
I have to assume it's less a money thing and more a matter of the armor not being especially useful and adding weight to the bomber when it's operating in atmosphere. IRL we see something similar with the Commonwealth Lewis Gun. In World War I it was just accepted the weapon required the use of a cooling jacket, which made the weapon heavier and clumsier to move with. By WWII, the people now being issued the weapon didn't have that common tribal knowledge and removed the jackets, which did not negatively impact the weapon's functionality in any way.
Regarding the Y-wing, I think the first reference to it being a two-seater was Splinter of the Mind's Eye, as Leia flew that with C-3PO in the back, followed by the Holiday Special, which also showed it as a two-seater. The original studio models did not feature a rear seat, but they look like they could have (they had other bits in there for some reason). As for it being classified as a bomber, I agree; we never see it actually dogfight in ANH. Instead, we see it acting much like the Mosquito Bombers in the Damn Busters, from which the Death Star Attack scene was inspired. So it is easy to then speculate that it was intended to be a fighter bomber.
I would say the first reference to the Y-Wing being a 2 seater was in the movie staff's conversations which led to Joe Johnston's design development sketches which were eventually published in the Star Wars Sketchbook by authored Joe and published by Ballantine Books in 1977. Page 83 refers to the sketches on pages 84 to 89 with, "Early Sketches of Y-wing fighters. From first prototype through design and re-design to final version the design changed very little, aside from a scaledown from two-man to one-man." And every sketch of it which has a handwritten label is labeled as, "Y-WING FIGHTER" just like that in all caps, like architects use, on the sketch.
#AskEck To go off of your Y-wing bomber lore....I remember reading early on that Mon Calamari rebel ships were converted from luxury passenger liners. This goes well with the idea of the Rebellion pulling together unconventional resources to arm themselves. But I haven't been able to find the earliest source for that. I'm sure I read it somewhere in the late 80's, so we're talking about the Dark Times of early Star Wars fandom. Insider? WEG? You're my only hope...
Another point of evidence I would say is what the trench scene was inspired from which was from a film "Dam Busters" which had a scene very similar to the one we had seen in Episode IV where a Mosquito bomber flew in a canyon evading enemy AA fire and such until hitting a critical target at the end. The events based on various actions in WWII under the RAF bomber command. These parallels I believe also enforce the Y-wings bomber-like nature as it is playing in place of a Mosquito which yes did have dedicated fighter variants and fighter bomber variants which I do believe the FB ones are more similar to how the Y-wing functions the fact is it is performing in the place of what a bomber did in the film and the events in WWII.
In my what I guess would be called headcanon the Y-Wing is very fast like the Mosquito was in its day. Now granted, my what was it, 6th grader logic at the time of the movie was something like, it has big engine pods therefore it has big engines therefore it is very fast.
I've always just assumed Y wings were ment to be bombers in a new hope just like you were talking about. The x wing weren't intended to be the ones to blow up the death Star, they seem to be just escorts, luke didn't plan to take the shot until all the Y-wings had failed.
I think silhouettes are helpful here; if you look at the frontal silhouette of a Y-wing, it is similar to something like a B-25, just without the wings. The X-wing, with its S-foils closed, has something more reminiscent of a fighter by contrast. Pretty much every ship in the movies has this in some way. Star Destroyers, for example, when viewed from the front at a low angle, have a very similar profile to WW2 battleships. Tie fighters have a ball in the middle of two narrow wings and are very small, like the Japanese A6M viewed from the front. External material doesn't always follow the same WW2-inspired design approach of front-on silhouette, but I really appreciate it when it does, such as with the Krath ships.
The X-Wing and TIE fighter are both Space Biplanes. Biplane duels were good action scenes in the kids movies George Lucas liked growing up. I always thought the Y-Wings were cooler and more original looking - like you say, B-25 vibes.
Even though the X-wing has 4 engines, vs. the Y-wing's 2, the Y-wing *looks* like a big twin-engine plane, which in the homaged WWII parlance means it's more in the realm of a torpedo bomber, night fighter, or fighter-bomber role. The X-wing may have more engines, but it's profile is the narrow one of a single-engine fighter.
Like to point out. that with as many sentient species in the galaxy, even if you did have advance tech it would probably be horded or slow to propagate to those that could use it to upgrade existing tech. Every star wars story seems to include tech never seen before.
This has been my favorite fighter since I figured out fighters and Star Wars. The first time I got in one in X-Wing (the old DOS one in 1996 or so when I got to play it), I loved the ship. Slower, sure, but tough as nails with a good payload and ion cannons. And in lore, can carry a passenger/gunner. What's not to love? And it's only gotten better over time with more lore. So yeah, Y-Wing is the greatest, and I wish it got more love, but I love it.
THAT'S what that little clip was under the Y-wing toy?? Kid down my street had that toy but they always used that belly hook for guys hands. I never saw it with a bomb.
There's a lot of knowledge I have about Star Wars where I have no idea where I learned it. Names and roles where I assumed it was in the movies but it wasn't. I think I definitely inferred the role of the Y-Wing based on how the attack run went down and on the first Death Star. I watched a bunch of History Channel back in the day (when it was History) and I was a HUGE WW2 fighter plan nerd. Intuitively I understood the role of Y-wing based on how it was presented. It was a fighter/bomber or ground support attack craft.
Lorewise the Y-Wing is awesome. But as someone who played the old X-Wing/Alliance games: it blew chunks and I dreaded every mission in which you were forced to pilot it.
My first memory specifically about the Y-wing (which is my favorite Rebellion/New Republic starship) comes from Bantha Tracks, which was the Star Wars fan club's newsletter. I don't recall the word 'bomber' being used but it was described as being stronger against hardened targets such as bunkers or space stations. If memory serves, this was stated as being because of its larger load of photon torpedoes. I seem to recall something about concussion missiles being an available loadout for them (which are described as much more bomb-like in their flight characteristics and power), but I'm not sure if that's something I read or something from a couple decades of Star Wars TTRPGs.
With the Xwing supplanting the Ywing as a multi role fighter, perhaps it was relegated to lesser duties like bombing. I could have sworn that near the end, the F14 was used more of ground attack & support roles as other fighters took its place.
I always thought of the Y-Wing as a bomber thanks to episode IV. It was used like an old A-6 would have been used in the real world except it had guns for self defense.
The earlier statement calling it a fighter bomber makes sense and could have come from the production crew themselves behind the scenes given Lucius drew from WW2 so much. Think something like Tie's = Zeros fast but glass cannons , X-Wings = P-51sone of the best dog fighters but limited in heavy attacks and Y-Wing = P-47s old, slow but could still dog fight and carry heavy ordnance
The Y-Wing is the workhorse of the rebel fleet; it's not quick or flashy, but it gets the job done. The armor on this ship is extensive and the shields will protect you from just about anything, which is good - because you won't be going anywhere fast.
I had the joy of having an action Figure scale toy of the Y-Wing as a kid, with the pull back drop bomb and everything. Definitely cemented it as my favourite fighter at that point. Later I also got Obi WAN’s Delta 7 with the Hyperspace Ring, I always found the ridiculous armament behind the drop panels hilarious.
My all-time favorite ship, and my first choice every time! It's roughly analogous to the WWII Ilyushin Il-2M3 Shturmovik, as compared to the X-Wing's P-51D Mustang parallel.
Drawing on the inspiration for star wars space combat ww2 it's a very important distinction between a fighter-bomber and a bomber (which can be broken in further types). A fighter bomber was capable of carrying a heavy bomb load for air support as well as being a capable (although not as much necessarily as a pure fighter) dogfighter, they could defend themselves or fight well in certain parameters. Think of the Tempest, P-47 or FW-190A8 model. Quite distinct from heavy or medium bombers like the B-17 or Heinkel 111.
The Kenner toys gave the Y-Wing a detachable red BOMB on the 1978 die-cast toy. The Holiday Special depicted it as a 2-seater, as did the Customizable Card Game in 1995.
I would have thought for sure Splinter of the Mind's Eye would have some line in there about the Y-wing, guess not. It seems like a lot of the early SW lore was influenced by the Kenner toy line. Forgive me for not having any examples off the top, but I know that's not the only toy that sourcebook & lore writers referenced to come up with more details. There was like nothing to go off of back then, George wasn't explaining a whole lot but you did get some bits here and there. I had a bunch of these old picture books from the early 80s growing up that were basically still screenshots of the film with a little extra information & lore sprinkled in there, probably sourced from the film novelizations. There were also some I don't know what to call them, publications, in the early 90s. They were kind of like lorebook magazines, they had one for the Empire & one for the Rebels, I borrowed the Rebel one from a friend in elementary school but then he moved before I could give it back. I wonder if I can find that anywhere... it had a green cover if I recall correctly. They had a bunch of those high res images of the ship models and the various tech with like specs and whatnot in there. I think they were put out by the official Star Wars magazine or whatever it was called at the time.
#AskEck In the context of the Star Wars timeline between the events of “A New Hope” and “Return of the Jedi,” and potentially in the broader Mandalorian universe, is it plausible that Luke Skywalker encountered members of the Ghost crew? Additionally, it is possible that he gained knowledge of the Jedi Ezra and Kanan during their brief involvement in the Rebel Alliance. Given that Ezra was successfully rescued in the “Ashoka” series, it is plausible that he may consider joining Luke Skywalker’s newly established Jedi order, similar to the brief glimpse we saw in the “Book of Boba Fett” and “The Last Jedi."?
Maybe the slowest besides the B-Wing, depending on which source you are pulling from. Y-Wings are probably quite heavy, and they are old, so maybe that's why they are slower fighters compared to an X-Wing or TIE.
Large doesn't always equal powerful or fast. Many big engines exist solely for power, such as the power one may need to carry a large payload of bombs. Or it may simply be a size-inefficient design. Many older cars, even the infamous muscle cars had massive big block engines, but pale in comparison to the speed and power of modern sports cars that often use physically smaller engines.
while "speed" is relative in space my understanding is that Y-wings have VERY fuel efficient engines that do not put out as much power as some other versions. In starwars you will notice different color for starship engines. Red, Yellow or Blue- Red is the "coolest color" with Yellow being in-between and White/Blue being hottest (as with stars) X-wings and Y-wings have "Red engines" (with X-wings having 4 and Y-wings having 2) A-wings have 2 Big yellow engines, while Tie fighters blue engines. It seems that Ties being short range fighters are not built to be fuel efficient while the Long Range hyperdrive equipped X-wings and Y-wings have "red" engines that burn less fuel per second.
Never thought of that, but it fits. At Yavin the X-wing acts like a superiority fighter; clear the skies and strafe the trench if you get a chance. The Y-wings on the other hand are full throttle, get in there and destroy something attack craft. I've read all the time about the Clone Wars lineage and how the rebels would strip em down or up armor them depending on the mission, but I always just assumed they were in the bomber role.
The Y Wing was considered the “A-10 Warthog of Star Wars” by my circle in SoCal, back in the late 70s. Bombing is among the purposes of a craft optimised for “surface attack”, kinda like saying ‘air-to-ground’ attack roles. This includes the concepts in *bookcase games (we’re weren’t online in late 70s/early 80s), a lot of times, people would repurpose other bookcase game rules and play with the miniature 1/144 lead figures (we’d paint these ourselves, which was half the fun).
Lucas used the old black & white movie "The Dambusters" to develop the trench run sequences. He even lifted dialog from that film (Generation Tech has a TH-cam video on it). The Dambusters raid was an actual WWII raid where British Lancaster bombers flew in low to drop spinning bombs into water, which then hit the dam, rolled down the side, and exploded underwater. The raid has a lot of similarities to the trench run. I couldn't find a specific reference to what influenced the design of the Y-Wing, but it does remind me a lot of the German Bf-110 fighter bomber, a two-person twin engine aircraft with a defensive machine gun in the rear of the cockpit. The Y-Wing was always my favorite of the Star Wars fighters, and I really need to pick up a couple for the X-Wing game (though I still play 1e and my ships are all from the sequel films).
I also seem to recall that you could buy a pack of illustrations of concept art by Ralph MacQuarrie very early on. In that pack, which I have somewhere, they identify the Y-Wing as a Y-Wing and if they don't call it a fighter bomber then perhaps the Star Wars Sketchbook, which is also a very early publication of the 70s, does. It goes far earlier than the games and seems to have been developed during pre-production of the first film. It always was the Y-Wing and I think commonly understood to be a fighter bomber.
There’s a photo out there from the making of return where they have listed the various maneuverability of different fighters and x wing and y wing are listed as the same rating. You even see a y wing maneuver kill a tie interceptor in the film
There's an ILM speed/maneuverability chart from the production of ROTJ that shows the Y-wing matching the x-wing and tie fighter. According to the chart, they are all equal. There is a scene in ROTJ of two tie interceptors chasing/downing an A-wing, with a Y-wing right behind the tie interceptors shooting them down. I really think that originally they were meant to be a fighter, but just an older generation. Of course though, I enjoyed playing the Y-wing in rogue squadron where it was portrayed as a slow bomber.
For me, the core of my Star Wars ship canon comes from the X-Wing and Tie games which really fleshed out the differences between the ships. This was only reinforced via the X-Wing novels by Stockpole which took the basics from those games and translated them onto the page. The best expansion I've seen in decades was the recent Star Wars Squadrons games - they did an excellent job expanding in ship balancing.
#AskEck Hope you’re having a good day but anyway my question is What would you say is the best way to study Star Wars lore, whether that’s canon or not. I.e. would you want to study it from the beginning of the entire star wars universe and make your way through the entire timeline?
Ah yes, the 'A-10/F-15/F/A-18 Super hornet' of the Star wars universe, which makes more sense as a multi-role fighter. Like the A-10, it can take a beating and probably serve as an aerial anti-armor craft for troops support. Like the F-15 it could be a light bomber, again for troop support/suppression. Like the F/A 18 super Hornet it could fill a variety of roles (seriously, look at that craft, all the other aircraft it could replace).
The real world equivalents at the time "A New Hope" was made would be the X-wing being a F-14 especially since both had variable geometry wings, and the Y-wing would be the A-7 Crusader, which could carry bombs, missiles, and had guns.
I had built a mind canon of them being older slower fighters that had been converted to bomber duty as technology passed them by. Then the Prequels came out showing that things like the N1 existed prior to the Clone Wars making it unlikely that such a large lumbering fighter/bomber would ever have been seen as a front-line fighter. Plus, the rear gunner tends to indicate that it had never been considered a particularly agile craft.
Y wing fighters kinda remind me of the f 4 phantom. Old but reliable and relatively fast. X wings were more of an air superiority fighter like an f 18 super hornet.
That could make for an interesting video. I don't believe they actually had any as the Republic had no standing military. There were some defense groups though I think, so they might have had some limited stuff. Of course, the Jedi had fighters painted in Republic colors.
I also was wondering that so I looked into it and I think it's Sky Rogue from 2017. It looks so cool and is $10 on switch so I think I'm going to pick it up.
Knowing Lucas took a lot of inspiration from WWII, this likely took inspiration from torpedo bombers like the Grumman Avenger or some other dive bomber. Avengers fire torpedoes and have a gun turret situated behind the pilot.
The original footage of the Battle of Yavin was based on a WWII film about blowing up dams. In that film there were small bombers that could fly down into a canyon… but I believe they also had a single pilot fighter escort. I’m guessing the 2 types of rebel fighters were based on those roles. Or: like the Tantive IV, they built some mock up models in the prototype phases, and just reused them because budgets were tight. But my first theory is what I’m going with.
Considering how much of early Star Wars Lucas based on WW2 I would say it's safe to say the Y wing is a bomber as the trench run behaves like a standard WW2 bombing mission. Fighters protect bombers from enemy fighters so bombers can do their thing.
I saw a background documentary on the making of Star Wars and one of the prop makers giving the tour offhandedly calls it the bomber. George Lucas wanted the Death Star fight to mirror WWII fighter and bomber films he had seen. That is why the X-Wing acts as fighter escort, engaging other fighter aircraft, while the Y-Wings moved straight to the target to drop ordnance. As some people from the military can attest, there is such a thing as dual-roll aircraft and I would say the Y-Wing fits as a Fighter/Bomber rather than a dedicated Bomber.
If you want to look into really early lore, you could try tracking down Bantha Tracks (pun intended). Bantha Tracks was an official Star Wars newsletter before the Star Wars Insider. It is referenced in early issues of Insider, but I never once got a chance to see them.
The explanation for the Y-wing being a bomber is really easy. George Lucas based a lot of the action sequence in A New Hope off of World War II fighter footage from the battle of Britain. So it does make sense that the Y wings would be thought of as a bomber in the canon.
Day sixteen of asking Eck my question: #AskEck Why do you think the pirates kept grogu, there was quite obviously a bounty on him considering all the hunters with tracking fobes and I doubt they wouldn't have known about it, so we're actually protecting him. My theory is that after he was saved after the purge, so senator or rebel group hired these pirates to protect him, but was eventually captured by the empire or forgot about grogu, (why he was never given to the new republic after the war), and the pirates not knowing he was a jedi just kept and raised him till mando showed up, killed them and stole their kid.
I always saw the comparison of the X-wing and Y-wing similar to that of the P-51 and P-47 of World War II. The P-51 gets most of the attention, it's sleek, fast, and a maneuverable fighter. The P-47 was bigger, and slower, and phenomenal at dishing it out to forces on the ground, but by all accounts, could still hold its own against an enemy fighter, compensating for poor maneuverability with sheer firepower and durability. Seeing how the Original Trilogy borrowed a lot from WWII, this is what I always figured to be the case.
The thing that kind of "intuitively" sold Y-Wings being bombers for me was the turret gun. Yeah there were a few fighter designs with turrets, but almost all models of propeller (and even some Soviet jet) bombers feature defensive turrets.
Some american jet bombers, such as the B-52 used turrets too as late as Vietnam. Though those have been eliminated in more modern models. The extra weight and drag was not considered worth it as they were largely ineffective against interceptors and their long-range missiles.
@@AdmiralBlackstar Which thus makes it a perfect addition for a bomber in Star Wars - Drag isn't a big issue, while the extra defensive capability can be quite useful in the gun/knife-fight ranges of Star Wars dogfights, or they can deliver additional damage to a bombing target. And, of course, they can also be a specialized secondary weapon, as with the Y-Wing, where its ion cannons can be instead used to disable enemy fighters or transports or the sub-systems aboard ships, or just do heavier damage to the shields to help soften it up for the bombing run, either way giving the bomber more versatility than just "hit target hard".
fighters with turrets went out of favor in ww1
@@kanedaadenak7088 Plenty of examples from World War II of fighters (along with light/dive/torpedo bombers) with turrets, and even if you want to only cunt the light/dive/torpedo bombers... Well that just kind of reinforces the point RE: the Y-Wing *looking* like a bomber.
The Mosquito didn’t… sacrificing defensive armament for speed. Neither did it’s replacement the Canberra. By the 60s no new bomber designs had defensive armament except the Soviet ones.
Just goes to show that Star Wars uses a lot of outdated ideas even from a 20th century earth perspective. Like how cruisers have gun ports and blast each other with broadsides as if they were 17th century men o’ war. They missed the development of the gun turret, long range guided munitions, and the use of smaller craft to fight battles at ranges where they can’t even see each other like in the Pacific Ocean in the early 1940s.
My first Star Wars toy back in 77 was a die-cast Y-wing. On the box it was called a Fighter/Bomber. Had a rear gunner and turret, and a red bomb you could drop. And the engine pylons could be ejected, for some reason.
I’m in my fifties and remember that one growing up. I believe the pylons ejected to represent crash damage, or the ship exploding or something along those lines.
Fortunately, I still have mine. There isn't a gunner; only the pilot is in the cockpit. You press the silver "droid" behind the cockpit to jettison the bomb (which I sadly lost some time ago).
@@yak9989 I think I still have in storage, my original landspeeder, Dewback, and Tauntaun
I love the Y wing's humming. Specially in rogue squadron. So nostalgic.
I remember when SW came out, I was told by another little kid on the playground that Vader wore his suit and breathed like he did because he fought a lightsaber duel and fell into a volcano. Being 6 or 7 years old, I just kinda accepted that, and when Ep3 came out 30 years later and it turned out to be true I was very much surprised.
In the early days right after the movie came out, Lucas and the cast and crew were interviewed by hundreds of different TV shows, magazines and newspapers. In the early days, any info they had about the story and characters was media gold, and Lucas at that point was a real chatterbox, and answered just about any question put to him. It's no secret that he loved drawing inspiration from old movies, and would talk about it at length in the early days to anyone willing to listen before he realized that he should hold his cards closer to his vest if he wanted to make sequels. I can pretty much guarantee that the Y-Wing as a bomber thing came from one of these early interviews, where he was talking about how the trench run was inspired by The Dam Busters and 633 Squadron.
That kid might have been a time-traveler. 😮
The confit of Vader being harmed by falling into a molten pit or volcano was something I remember hearing as a child as well during the OT release years. The RotJ novelization mentions lava or something molten burning Vader’s back during his duel with Kenobi, but it seems the notion of Vader being burned and his lungs being damaged from fumes is pretty old, but once again it primary source is forgotten.
He probably just read Bantha Tracks. The fan newsletter. My neighbor always knew shit before me. I never figured it out until we got older. He also had a Bespin Luke jacket.
@@dufjdh3u87rhhdbhfhd You are correct. Though I can't remember if Bantha Tracks was part of the official fan club stuff sent out. Unfortunately we could afford the Bespin Jacket.
But yea, I remember that Vader being in the suit because of a dual between Kenobi that took place in a steel factory was known before Jedi and maybe even before (right before) Empire. I also want to say that the first iteration of that either included or hinted at that it was a 3 way duel between Vader, Annikin, and Kenobi. But I won't swear to that because it has been an age.
Actually Vader's story with the duel and the lava was in the 1976 novelization of A New Hope. Yes, the book was there first! The battle on board of the Tantive IV is a lot more fierce in it, especially Vader's role. Fun fact: During the Deathstar attack Luke is part of Blue Squadron (back then blue screen wouldn't allow blue colours, so it became red) and the trench system of the Deathstar is way more complex.
My favorite Y-Wing fact is that Adam Savage built the prototypes for the Galoob Action Fleet toys from the '90s.
The Y-wing is the GOAT of Star Wars fighters. From the Clone Wars to the Battle of Exegol, it was there for all of it
just using exegol in a sentence makes my acid reflex flair up... because.... somehow Palpatine is back...
@@timwooten7165I wish that trilogy went much differently 😮💨
The Aurek Starfighter was in service for thousands of years.
But yes, the Y-wing is a very under appreciated craft that it’s too overshadowed by the X-Wing.
@IuIianos
We all do...
out of all the ships that deserved to be in the sequel trilogy, it was definitely the y wing
It really does go to show how amazing many ship designs in Star Wars are to where me and many others just intuitively know what their purposes are without really looking like their real world equivalent. I always thought the Y wing looked like a bomber ship and I think it’s cause of how “slow” they fly relative to other ships and also how it has a ball turret looking gunner area and they just otherwise don’t look as quick as the other ships we see
thanks for the y-wing deep dive! It was always my favorite fighter for its weapons loadout and gun placement. In the original X-Wing DOS game, it was by far the most capable fighter, even if people hated it for being slow and having bad maneuverability. Those people just need to Get Good.
The maneuverability wasn't even THAT bad, and when you shifted all power to the engines, it had a respectable speed. You could even headbutt TIE's in jousts with double forward shields and bust them without taking any damage.
There is a variant of the Y-wing featured in the Jedi Prince/Lost City of the Jedi novels that is a troop transport variant. Apparently there was a problem with the Falcon so Luke, Han, Chewie, the droids, and Ken took this ship instead. It was apparently large enough to have a starboard boarding ramp and an armory. It is even illustrated.
The Y-Wing is referred to by name in both the novelization of Episode IV and Splinter of the Mind’s Eye (the first Expanded Universe novel); I just checked in my vintage copies 😊
It IS referred to as a fighter in both instances, but that does not detract from its role as a fighter-bomber
Yes I cracked SOTME for this video. Cant remember if I mentioned that
SotME was technically S-canon. The EU refers to C-canon.
to me.. no matter what referense says what.. its either a fighter bomber.. or a heavy fighter..
either way.. my favourite star wars ship.. and i love using it in ANY star wars game that has them
over and above any hero ship
The Y-Wing is still to this day one of my favorite starfighters, if not my favorite (The N1 is the only direct challenge). That said, I agree. The way it behaves even in Ep4 lends to a "Fighter/Bomber" role. Even the mention in Splenter of the Minds Eye brings up the 2 seater config, which reflects this.
On that note, it may be more appropriate to refer to it as a Scout Bomber akin to the real-life SBD Dauntless Dive Bomber which itself was a Scout Bomber but also could hold it's own in a dogfight if needed (only DB with a positive K/D rate in air to air combat) and could take a beating. This fits given George Lucas based a lot of Star Wars tech on WW2 tech and equipment.
I feel like anyone who played Tie Fighter by Lucasarts learned pretty fast that you had to react to the squadron of Y-Wings showing up on the battlefield otherwise they would nuke down one of your light capital ships in no time.
Every time I hear Y wing I hear “The Y-wing is the workhorse of the rebel fleet. It’s not quick, or flashy, but it gets the job done.” I forget the rest, but guess that game.
Rogue Squadron.
@@sonofeyeabovealleffoff5462 Good man
If I remember correctly, the Rogue Squadron game also refers to it as a "sleepy Hutt" lol
Ah yes. Loved playing Rogue Squadron on PC. Assault on Kile II was my favorite mission.
The Y-Wing Fighter was included in the Star Wars Sketchbook book that came out right after the first movie, and was named as such. It predated any of the toys releases; I had that book before the die cast ever came out which was after ‘77. The large Y-Wing the figures fit into came out around the time of Jedi. I still have all three.
The Y Wing makes me think of a WW2 torpedo bomber. It is relatively slow with limited agility but carries heavy ordinance for is size. It even has a rotating turret.
I think A-10, which if I'm correct, was also introduced in 1977.
@@MadisonAtteberry not like an A-10. A-10s are dedicated CAS planes. Y-wings are fighter/bomber/scout planes.
@@MrChickennugget360 Well, I wasn't rally clear, which is my fault, but by 'A-10' I meant that the Y-wing may be slower then other craft in the alliance....slash 'Republic' and finally 'Resistance' and blah, blah, blah, anyways, it may have been slower then the others, but can take a beating, which is how some would describe the A-10 as being.
I think of the Y-Wing as a "multirole" craft, hence fighter/bomber. It can do both, but is neither a heavy bomber nor an optimized dogfighting craft. The Y-Wings of Gold Squadron were definitely supposed to make the proton torpedo hit on the first Death Star, which X-Wings flew cover and kept hte fighters off their backs. It didn't work out that way, and I think there was a lot of doubt that a less sturdy X-Wing could even survive down in the trench and make that hit - The Force not withstanding of course.
@brianjl7477 I'd say the X-Wing is a multirole fighter and the Y-Wing being an assault fighter-bomber (basically a bomber in the body of a fighter). The X-Wing flies as space superiority due to being the most maneuverable craft of the two as well as decent endurance, but in comparison to a TIE (fighter and interceptor) the X-Wing doesn't handle knife fights all that well. The X-Wings also had proton torpedoes. The Y-Wing is mainly used to assault capital ships and ground targets, whereas the B-wing is THE dedicated anti-capital starfighter with the TIE Bomber being dedicated against ground targets. Still, the Y-Wing would be worse at turn fights compared to other fighters save for the B-Wing and TIE Bomber.
4:30 The splinter of the minds eye Y-wing is from the graphic novel where Lea is piloting and C3P0 is the back seater boss
Fun fact: The Y-wings we see in the Clone Wars series are officially the same model/ship of Y-wings we see in A New Hope, they’re just heavily modified and stripped down versions of the Republic Y-wings.
If you consider Lucas' own times, apart from the well-known WWII metaphors, I tend to think of the Y-wing as a figher-attack plane a la Vietnam and the X-wing as something a bit later like an F/A 18 . It's obviously not how they were used in A New Hope but in say X-Wing Alliance, if you load Y-wings out with Advanced Missiles , you basically have a missile truck that can keep Imperial fighter screens on the back foot before they even really engage while you close with ion cannons and stuff and the more-dogfightey Reb planes clean up behind you.
I think the biggest "indicator" of the Y-Wing's bomber role was the Yavin briefing. The animation showed the attacking ship dropping its ordinance on the Death Star like a bomber. Since the Y-Wings were the designated attack ships for the DS trench run, it leads one to assume that they were bombers. The Y-Wing is my favorite SW fighter craft, even over the X-Wing. I'm glad it has gotten so much lore added to it.
Suggestion: You should do a dedicated episode on the Brian Daley HAN SOLO ADVENTURES. It was the first EU for those who saw the OT in the theaters on opening week, and the stories really hold up. If they ever do another SOLO movie, it should be HAN SOLO'S REVENGE....
@seekertwo1 Tbf, the dropping of ordnance as seen in the animation looks like simplified graphics. I mean, why does the DS in the same briefing have the laser dish in the middle as opposed to off-center (towards the top).
The fact that the Y-wing wasn't shown dogfighting in A New Hope may have more to do with the time restrictions on the filmmakers, rather than some delineation that Lucas made between the X and Y wings. Perhaps, when crunched for time, the special effects team focused on filming the X-wing over the y-wing.
Alternately, the filmmakers might have thought that the X-wing looked more dramatic from more angles that the y-wing did, and that's why it got the spotlight. Similar to why the B-wing didn't get as much play in RotJ as one would have expected, given it was a new design for that film, and the desire to showcase it to drive toy sales.
Y-Wings in the Clone Wars had full plate armor but during the Rebellion, they got stripped to save money and make easier repairs.
Didn't they also ditch the gunners position for an automated turret to save on man power? I feel like I read that somewhere.
It always bothered me that the names of Rebel fighters were just "Y-wing" "X-wing" "A-wing" but my head cannon is that only the Y-wing and X-wing are "officially" named that- the rest are just nicknames given by Rebel Starfighter Crew and maintenance personal. The "A-wing" is Just a modified R-22 "Spearhead" (which nobody in the Rebel Starfighter corps would ever call it in a similar manner to no one in the Airforce calling an A-10 Warthog a "Thunderbolt II")(with upgraded models classed as RZ-1s)
Koensayer named the Y-wing after the fact that its intended to be a highly modular starship. The idea being it's simply a cockpit, a drive core, a Hyperdrive and a pair of engines with a highly modifiable design.
Y-wings became the backbone due to that flexibility they were a ship that could be modified to be attack-strike, heavy ordinance carrier, long range scout, or general-purpose fighter. It was never the best at each of these respective roles, but it could be modified to do any of them. Early on this is why the Rebels often used only Y-wings.
The reason for the many version of the Y-wing designation such as BTL or A4 etc is that these represent different configurations that the Core "Y-wing" space frame could be converted into.
one neat concept of the Y-wing was it being plated in Durasteel armor. Originally Y-wings were deployed fully armored in Durasteel, this plating was removable for maintenance and for modularity purposes but because Durasteel is expensive and a controlled material via Imperial doctrine most had these plates removed when in service with planetary militias. However, the Cockpit is built inside a Durasteel bathtub which is not able to be removed so Rebel fighters lacked the heavy plating on every part of the ship except the cockpit, as well as the forward section of the Engine nasals which was built into the forward engine coil to protect it from incoming plasma blasts from the forward direction.
This gave rebel pilots flying Y-wings strong protection in frontal attacks as most blasters had difficulty punching through durasteel making Y-wings dangerous to attack head on.
X-wing gets its name from Incomm attempting to capitalize on the success of the "Y-wing" it was introduced as the T-65 "X-wing" it is designed to a have the strengths of Incomm's two most popular fighters from the Clone War era: the ARC-170 for its long range and high firepower and the Z-95 Headhunter for its dog fighting ability. It was also intended like All Incomm ships to be VERY easy to fly. Unfortunately only a tiny number of T-65A fighters were produced before the Empire discovered that Rebel sympathizers in the company were sharing technical data and transferring fighters to Rebel combat cells. Before tehy could be seized and shut down Company sympathizers and Rebel agents worked to transfer the plans as well as critical machine manufacturing tools (along with thousands of critical spare parts including 247 spare hyperdrives)
Within a year of these events the Rebels had set up factories to manufacture T-65Bs for Rebel service. However because Rebels could not acquire some of the components on the black market (or from surplus market) The Incomm T-65B was inferior to the original T-65A including an older fire control system and a shared hyperdrive with the Y-wing.
T-65As were used primary by senior Rebel Starfighter officers (such as Blue Leader) the overwhelming majority of Rebel X-wing pilots flew T-65Bs. Later on by the battle of Endor the T-65C was being produced which upgraded the shields and fire control systems.
With the popularity of the "Y-wing" and "X-wing" names alongside the victories at Scarif and Yavin it became popular for Rebels to call any snub-fighter by a "Wing" name thus RZ-1s came to be called "A-wings" and A/SF-01 starship killers came to be called "B-wings" (even though many complained they looked more like a T) This tradition followed with K-wing Heavy bombers and D-wing light fighters.
I have to assume it's less a money thing and more a matter of the armor not being especially useful and adding weight to the bomber when it's operating in atmosphere.
IRL we see something similar with the Commonwealth Lewis Gun. In World War I it was just accepted the weapon required the use of a cooling jacket, which made the weapon heavier and clumsier to move with. By WWII, the people now being issued the weapon didn't have that common tribal knowledge and removed the jackets, which did not negatively impact the weapon's functionality in any way.
They did that for better speed too
> Make easier repairs
Well, if you mean that the ones that RETURNED were less damaged, then I guess...
I've always thought of the Y-wing as the Hurricane to the X-wing's Spitfire. Not glamorous, but rugged and versatile.
Regarding the Y-wing, I think the first reference to it being a two-seater was Splinter of the Mind's Eye, as Leia flew that with C-3PO in the back, followed by the Holiday Special, which also showed it as a two-seater. The original studio models did not feature a rear seat, but they look like they could have (they had other bits in there for some reason). As for it being classified as a bomber, I agree; we never see it actually dogfight in ANH. Instead, we see it acting much like the Mosquito Bombers in the Damn Busters, from which the Death Star Attack scene was inspired. So it is easy to then speculate that it was intended to be a fighter bomber.
I would say the first reference to the Y-Wing being a 2 seater was in the movie staff's conversations which led to Joe Johnston's design development sketches which were eventually published in the Star Wars Sketchbook by authored Joe and published by Ballantine Books in 1977. Page 83 refers to the sketches on pages 84 to 89 with, "Early Sketches of Y-wing fighters. From first prototype through design and re-design to final version the design changed very little, aside from a scaledown from two-man to one-man." And every sketch of it which has a handwritten label is labeled as, "Y-WING FIGHTER" just like that in all caps, like architects use, on the sketch.
#AskEck
To go off of your Y-wing bomber lore....I remember reading early on that Mon Calamari rebel ships were converted from luxury passenger liners. This goes well with the idea of the Rebellion pulling together unconventional resources to arm themselves. But I haven't been able to find the earliest source for that. I'm sure I read it somewhere in the late 80's, so we're talking about the Dark Times of early Star Wars fandom. Insider? WEG? You're my only hope...
I remember that. It was either something from the Thrawn trilogy (original), or some other EU book like Courtship…
Maybe from the StarLog Technical Journal booklets too?
And West End Games may seeded that earlier.
Another point of evidence I would say is what the trench scene was inspired from which was from a film "Dam Busters" which had a scene very similar to the one we had seen in Episode IV where a Mosquito bomber flew in a canyon evading enemy AA fire and such until hitting a critical target at the end. The events based on various actions in WWII under the RAF bomber command. These parallels I believe also enforce the Y-wings bomber-like nature as it is playing in place of a Mosquito which yes did have dedicated fighter variants and fighter bomber variants which I do believe the FB ones are more similar to how the Y-wing functions the fact is it is performing in the place of what a bomber did in the film and the events in WWII.
In my what I guess would be called headcanon the Y-Wing is very fast like the Mosquito was in its day. Now granted, my what was it, 6th grader logic at the time of the movie was something like, it has big engine pods therefore it has big engines therefore it is very fast.
Oh ya the reverse pod racer space bomber. Luv those things.
I've always just assumed Y wings were ment to be bombers in a new hope just like you were talking about.
The x wing weren't intended to be the ones to blow up the death Star, they seem to be just escorts, luke didn't plan to take the shot until all the Y-wings had failed.
The slickest toy growing up! The bomb bay was awesome! When luke saved heman it was always the ywing bomber that took out skeleators ultimate weapon!
I think silhouettes are helpful here; if you look at the frontal silhouette of a Y-wing, it is similar to something like a B-25, just without the wings. The X-wing, with its S-foils closed, has something more reminiscent of a fighter by contrast. Pretty much every ship in the movies has this in some way. Star Destroyers, for example, when viewed from the front at a low angle, have a very similar profile to WW2 battleships. Tie fighters have a ball in the middle of two narrow wings and are very small, like the Japanese A6M viewed from the front. External material doesn't always follow the same WW2-inspired design approach of front-on silhouette, but I really appreciate it when it does, such as with the Krath ships.
The X-Wing and TIE fighter are both Space Biplanes. Biplane duels were good action scenes in the kids movies George Lucas liked growing up. I always thought the Y-Wings were cooler and more original looking - like you say, B-25 vibes.
Even though the X-wing has 4 engines, vs. the Y-wing's 2, the Y-wing *looks* like a big twin-engine plane, which in the homaged WWII parlance means it's more in the realm of a torpedo bomber, night fighter, or fighter-bomber role.
The X-wing may have more engines, but it's profile is the narrow one of a single-engine fighter.
Like to point out. that with as many sentient species in the galaxy, even if you did have advance tech it would probably be horded or slow to propagate to those that could use it to upgrade existing tech. Every star wars story seems to include tech never seen before.
Y-wing was my fave fighter in the old 90s X-Wing game.
Lonely Rolling Star GOATED outro music choice
This has been my favorite fighter since I figured out fighters and Star Wars. The first time I got in one in X-Wing (the old DOS one in 1996 or so when I got to play it), I loved the ship. Slower, sure, but tough as nails with a good payload and ion cannons. And in lore, can carry a passenger/gunner. What's not to love? And it's only gotten better over time with more lore. So yeah, Y-Wing is the greatest, and I wish it got more love, but I love it.
3:22 damn, that Wampa looks terrifying
The Y wing was my go to ship when playing X wing by FFG.
2:18 that's a nice Sky Rogue mod!
THAT'S what that little clip was under the Y-wing toy?? Kid down my street had that toy but they always used that belly hook for guys hands. I never saw it with a bomb.
There's a lot of knowledge I have about Star Wars where I have no idea where I learned it. Names and roles where I assumed it was in the movies but it wasn't.
I think I definitely inferred the role of the Y-Wing based on how the attack run went down and on the first Death Star. I watched a bunch of History Channel back in the day (when it was History) and I was a HUGE WW2 fighter plan nerd. Intuitively I understood the role of Y-wing based on how it was presented. It was a fighter/bomber or ground support attack craft.
Lorewise the Y-Wing is awesome. But as someone who played the old X-Wing/Alliance games: it blew chunks and I dreaded every mission in which you were forced to pilot it.
My first memory specifically about the Y-wing (which is my favorite Rebellion/New Republic starship) comes from Bantha Tracks, which was the Star Wars fan club's newsletter. I don't recall the word 'bomber' being used but it was described as being stronger against hardened targets such as bunkers or space stations. If memory serves, this was stated as being because of its larger load of photon torpedoes. I seem to recall something about concussion missiles being an available loadout for them (which are described as much more bomb-like in their flight characteristics and power), but I'm not sure if that's something I read or something from a couple decades of Star Wars TTRPGs.
AYO!!! My question got a feature!!!
Justin, I am going to post this video so many places! You rad, bad, madlad!!!
LESSSS GOOOOOO!!!!
🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉❤❤❤❤❤❤❤
I remember that there was a SW magazine that existed pretty early called 'Bantha Tracks' that /might/ have had info on the Y-wing.
Yeah that was on my list to check, they are all available online
With the Xwing supplanting the Ywing as a multi role fighter, perhaps it was relegated to lesser duties like bombing. I could have sworn that near the end, the F14 was used more of ground attack & support roles as other fighters took its place.
I always thought of the Y-Wing as a bomber thanks to episode IV. It was used like an old A-6 would have been used in the real world except it had guns for self defense.
The visual storytelling of the movie heavily implied the Y-wing was a bomber and the X-wing was a Fighter, not everything needs to be explicit.
The earlier statement calling it a fighter bomber makes sense and could have come from the production crew themselves behind the scenes given Lucius drew from WW2 so much. Think something like Tie's = Zeros fast but glass cannons , X-Wings = P-51sone of the best dog fighters but limited in heavy attacks and Y-Wing = P-47s old, slow but could still dog fight and carry heavy ordnance
Always a fan; was my preferred ship in games when I could get it- even had the old Kenner Y-Wing back in the day
The Y-Wing is the workhorse of the rebel fleet; it's not quick or flashy, but it gets the job done. The armor on this ship is extensive and the shields will protect you from just about anything, which is good - because you won't be going anywhere fast.
I played X Wing back in the day and Y Wings were bombers. I never thought about that not being set in the movies. This was a cool vid Eck
I had the joy of having an action Figure scale toy of the Y-Wing as a kid, with the pull back drop bomb and everything. Definitely cemented it as my favourite fighter at that point.
Later I also got Obi WAN’s Delta 7 with the Hyperspace Ring, I always found the ridiculous armament behind the drop panels hilarious.
My all-time favorite ship, and my first choice every time! It's roughly analogous to the WWII Ilyushin Il-2M3 Shturmovik, as compared to the X-Wing's P-51D Mustang parallel.
The Y wing has always been my favorite since seeing Star Wars in 1977
It’s actually my second favorite, still love the very first ship we see; the CR-90 TANTIVE IV.
Drawing on the inspiration for star wars space combat ww2 it's a very important distinction between a fighter-bomber and a bomber (which can be broken in further types). A fighter bomber was capable of carrying a heavy bomb load for air support as well as being a capable (although not as much necessarily as a pure fighter) dogfighter, they could defend themselves or fight well in certain parameters. Think of the Tempest, P-47 or FW-190A8 model. Quite distinct from heavy or medium bombers like the B-17 or Heinkel 111.
Those toys were huge and pretty cool for the time. I remember the chicken walker had this button on the back you'd press and it would kick its legs.
The Kenner toys gave the Y-Wing a detachable red BOMB on the 1978 die-cast toy.
The Holiday Special depicted it as a 2-seater, as did the Customizable Card Game in 1995.
Great show. Lonely rolling star at the end caught me off guard. Thought I had clicked a different link on accident! Good stuff
I would have thought for sure Splinter of the Mind's Eye would have some line in there about the Y-wing, guess not. It seems like a lot of the early SW lore was influenced by the Kenner toy line. Forgive me for not having any examples off the top, but I know that's not the only toy that sourcebook & lore writers referenced to come up with more details. There was like nothing to go off of back then, George wasn't explaining a whole lot but you did get some bits here and there.
I had a bunch of these old picture books from the early 80s growing up that were basically still screenshots of the film with a little extra information & lore sprinkled in there, probably sourced from the film novelizations. There were also some I don't know what to call them, publications, in the early 90s. They were kind of like lorebook magazines, they had one for the Empire & one for the Rebels, I borrowed the Rebel one from a friend in elementary school but then he moved before I could give it back. I wonder if I can find that anywhere... it had a green cover if I recall correctly. They had a bunch of those high res images of the ship models and the various tech with like specs and whatnot in there. I think they were put out by the official Star Wars magazine or whatever it was called at the time.
The y-wing was my first Star Wars toy..it’s always had a place in my heart
#AskEck In the context of the Star Wars timeline between the events of “A New Hope” and “Return of the Jedi,” and potentially in the broader Mandalorian universe, is it plausible that Luke Skywalker encountered members of the Ghost crew? Additionally, it is possible that he gained knowledge of the Jedi Ezra and Kanan during their brief involvement in the Rebel Alliance. Given that Ezra was successfully rescued in the “Ashoka” series, it is plausible that he may consider joining Luke Skywalker’s newly established Jedi order, similar to the brief glimpse we saw in the “Book of Boba Fett” and “The Last Jedi."?
The Y wing has the largest engines, but it's the slowest fighter
Maybe the slowest besides the B-Wing, depending on which source you are pulling from. Y-Wings are probably quite heavy, and they are old, so maybe that's why they are slower fighters compared to an X-Wing or TIE.
Remember that most of what you see as “engines” are those extensions. The actual exhaust is about 40% of the total length
Large doesn't always equal powerful or fast. Many big engines exist solely for power, such as the power one may need to carry a large payload of bombs. Or it may simply be a size-inefficient design. Many older cars, even the infamous muscle cars had massive big block engines, but pale in comparison to the speed and power of modern sports cars that often use physically smaller engines.
while "speed" is relative in space my understanding is that Y-wings have VERY fuel efficient engines that do not put out as much power as some other versions. In starwars you will notice different color for starship engines. Red, Yellow or Blue- Red is the "coolest color" with Yellow being in-between and White/Blue being hottest (as with stars) X-wings and Y-wings have "Red engines" (with X-wings having 4 and Y-wings having 2) A-wings have 2 Big yellow engines, while Tie fighters blue engines.
It seems that Ties being short range fighters are not built to be fuel efficient while the Long Range hyperdrive equipped X-wings and Y-wings have "red" engines that burn less fuel per second.
@Parocha Are you referring to the pylons when you mentioned extensions?
Really weird coming from your hockey videos to this
Never thought of that, but it fits. At Yavin the X-wing acts like a superiority fighter; clear the skies and strafe the trench if you get a chance. The Y-wings on the other hand are full throttle, get in there and destroy something attack craft. I've read all the time about the Clone Wars lineage and how the rebels would strip em down or up armor them depending on the mission, but I always just assumed they were in the bomber role.
The Y Wing was considered the “A-10 Warthog of Star Wars” by my circle in SoCal, back in the late 70s.
Bombing is among the purposes of a craft optimised for “surface attack”, kinda like saying ‘air-to-ground’ attack roles.
This includes the concepts in *bookcase games (we’re weren’t online in late 70s/early 80s), a lot of times, people would repurpose other bookcase game rules and play with the miniature 1/144 lead figures (we’d paint these ourselves, which was half the fun).
Lucas used the old black & white movie "The Dambusters" to develop the trench run sequences. He even lifted dialog from that film (Generation Tech has a TH-cam video on it). The Dambusters raid was an actual WWII raid where British Lancaster bombers flew in low to drop spinning bombs into water, which then hit the dam, rolled down the side, and exploded underwater. The raid has a lot of similarities to the trench run. I couldn't find a specific reference to what influenced the design of the Y-Wing, but it does remind me a lot of the German Bf-110 fighter bomber, a two-person twin engine aircraft with a defensive machine gun in the rear of the cockpit. The Y-Wing was always my favorite of the Star Wars fighters, and I really need to pick up a couple for the X-Wing game (though I still play 1e and my ships are all from the sequel films).
Lonely Rolling Star? Are you kidding?
Right in the feels, man.
Ive always wondered if there was a Heavy or Armored Version of the Y Wing
I also seem to recall that you could buy a pack of illustrations of concept art by Ralph MacQuarrie very early on. In that pack, which I have somewhere, they identify the Y-Wing as a Y-Wing and if they don't call it a fighter bomber then perhaps the Star Wars Sketchbook, which is also a very early publication of the 70s, does. It goes far earlier than the games and seems to have been developed during pre-production of the first film. It always was the Y-Wing and I think commonly understood to be a fighter bomber.
That one scene where the Y-wing chases and blast a TIE interceptor at the Battle of Endor. Yeah, that happened.
that and the scene at the start of the battle where a Y-Wing blasts TWO Squints...right after they fragged an A-wing
There’s a photo out there from the making of return where they have listed the various maneuverability of different fighters and x wing and y wing are listed as the same rating. You even see a y wing maneuver kill a tie interceptor in the film
That imperial TIE Interceptor pilot that got waxed by a y-wing was a goober and a shame to the Imperial TIE Pilot corps
From day 1 of seeing A New Hope, the Y-Wing was my favorite! The OG toy was Awesome!
There's an ILM speed/maneuverability chart from the production of ROTJ that shows the Y-wing matching the x-wing and tie fighter. According to the chart, they are all equal. There is a scene in ROTJ of two tie interceptors chasing/downing an A-wing, with a Y-wing right behind the tie interceptors shooting them down. I really think that originally they were meant to be a fighter, but just an older generation. Of course though, I enjoyed playing the Y-wing in rogue squadron where it was portrayed as a slow bomber.
My Y-Wing Dicast from 1979 had a orange bomb if I pushed the Astromech to release it.
Absolutely besides the topic, love the new outro tbh
For me, the core of my Star Wars ship canon comes from the X-Wing and Tie games which really fleshed out the differences between the ships. This was only reinforced via the X-Wing novels by Stockpole which took the basics from those games and translated them onto the page. The best expansion I've seen in decades was the recent Star Wars Squadrons games - they did an excellent job expanding in ship balancing.
#AskEck Hope you’re having a good day but anyway my question is What would you say is the best way to study Star Wars lore, whether that’s canon or not. I.e. would you want to study it from the beginning of the entire star wars universe and make your way through the entire timeline?
I love the Y-wing 😂
I always thought the Y-wing was a fighter, but I had the original Kenner toy as a kid. Man I wish I still had all those old starwars toys.
Ah yes, the 'A-10/F-15/F/A-18 Super hornet' of the Star wars universe, which makes more sense as a multi-role fighter.
Like the A-10, it can take a beating and probably serve as an aerial anti-armor craft for troops support.
Like the F-15 it could be a light bomber, again for troop support/suppression.
Like the F/A 18 super Hornet it could fill a variety of roles (seriously, look at that craft, all the other aircraft it could replace).
The real world equivalents at the time "A New Hope" was made would be the X-wing being a F-14 especially since both had variable geometry wings, and the Y-wing would be the A-7 Crusader, which could carry bombs, missiles, and had guns.
I had built a mind canon of them being older slower fighters that had been converted to bomber duty as technology passed them by. Then the Prequels came out showing that things like the N1 existed prior to the Clone Wars making it unlikely that such a large lumbering fighter/bomber would ever have been seen as a front-line fighter. Plus, the rear gunner tends to indicate that it had never been considered a particularly agile craft.
Y wing fighters kinda remind me of the f 4 phantom. Old but reliable and relatively fast. X wings were more of an air superiority fighter like an f 18 super hornet.
I always think of (panavia) Tornadoes when it comes to Y-Wings
#AskEck what kind of Starfighters did the Republic use before the Clone Wars?
That could make for an interesting video. I don't believe they actually had any as the Republic had no standing military. There were some defense groups though I think, so they might have had some limited stuff. Of course, the Jedi had fighters painted in Republic colors.
@@brianjl7477 There was PDFs, the Judicial Forces, the Jedi, the Outland Regions Security Force.
I love the ending music!
What game is the video game footage from? It looks like something like Star Fox and an old pc flight sim.
I was wondering that too. Maybe it's an ace combat mod.
I also was wondering that so I looked into it and I think it's Sky Rogue from 2017. It looks so cool and is $10 on switch so I think I'm going to pick it up.
Best outro soo far!
Knowing Lucas took a lot of inspiration from WWII, this likely took inspiration from torpedo bombers like the Grumman Avenger or some other dive bomber. Avengers fire torpedoes and have a gun turret situated behind the pilot.
The original footage of the Battle of Yavin was based on a WWII film about blowing up dams.
In that film there were small bombers that could fly down into a canyon… but I believe they also had a single pilot fighter escort.
I’m guessing the 2 types of rebel fighters were based on those roles.
Or: like the Tantive IV, they built some mock up models in the prototype phases, and just reused them because budgets were tight.
But my first theory is what I’m going with.
This craft has always been my favorite.
Considering how much of early Star Wars Lucas based on WW2 I would say it's safe to say the Y wing is a bomber as the trench run behaves like a standard WW2 bombing mission. Fighters protect bombers from enemy fighters so bombers can do their thing.
I saw a background documentary on the making of Star Wars and one of the prop makers giving the tour offhandedly calls it the bomber. George Lucas wanted the Death Star fight to mirror WWII fighter and bomber films he had seen. That is why the X-Wing acts as fighter escort, engaging other fighter aircraft, while the Y-Wings moved straight to the target to drop ordnance. As some people from the military can attest, there is such a thing as dual-roll aircraft and I would say the Y-Wing fits as a Fighter/Bomber rather than a dedicated Bomber.
Hey there Justin, What game were you playing in this video that showed the Y-wing ?
Lonely rolling star
Love it. BTW, what game was that?
I think it’s the game Sky Rogue
If you want to look into really early lore, you could try tracking down Bantha Tracks (pun intended). Bantha Tracks was an official Star Wars newsletter before the Star Wars Insider. It is referenced in early issues of Insider, but I never once got a chance to see them.
The explanation for the Y-wing being a bomber is really easy. George Lucas based a lot of the action sequence in A New Hope off of World War II fighter footage from the battle of Britain. So it does make sense that the Y wings would be thought of as a bomber in the canon.
1:48 Start of the Y-Wing Lore Video.
Yea. We don't care about thier sponsors.
Day sixteen of asking Eck my question:
#AskEck
Why do you think the pirates kept grogu, there was quite obviously a bounty on him considering all the hunters with tracking fobes and I doubt they wouldn't have known about it, so we're actually protecting him. My theory is that after he was saved after the purge, so senator or rebel group hired these pirates to protect him, but was eventually captured by the empire or forgot about grogu, (why he was never given to the new republic after the war), and the pirates not knowing he was a jedi just kept and raised him till mando showed up, killed them and stole their kid.
Gotta love the sky-rogue gameplay
I always liked the B Wing fighter. Wish there had been more shots of them in Return of the Jedi
#askeck can you please do a video on logistics in Star Wars, it’s a severely underrated & undercovered topic
I always saw the comparison of the X-wing and Y-wing similar to that of the P-51 and P-47 of World War II. The P-51 gets most of the attention, it's sleek, fast, and a maneuverable fighter. The P-47 was bigger, and slower, and phenomenal at dishing it out to forces on the ground, but by all accounts, could still hold its own against an enemy fighter, compensating for poor maneuverability with sheer firepower and durability. Seeing how the Original Trilogy borrowed a lot from WWII, this is what I always figured to be the case.