You're burn ALOT of bridges bringing this stuff up. The people in the know is gonna come out with character assisination stories about you. I would tread very carefully if I were you. People don't want their cheating ways exposed.
Such a good perspective on the matter Spencer. With so many athletes caught recently it makes it obvious that more is happening behind the scenes than many realize. More videos like this. Keep it up.
Great topic to bring up Spencer and glad you did! I'd argue that there are probably still a decent number of athletes (in pretty much every country) that are still using stuff like EPO though. While other things like Tesosterone and HGH could be used slightly more I'd look to try to out and catch these "big time PEDs" before even getting into the "gray area stuff." A "semi-pro" decent guy I used to race on the roads when I was at Hansons-Brooks was Christian Hesch. I remember the first time he broke 4 in the Mile and then the very next morning placed pretty well as an American at the Falmouth Road Race 7-miler. We all thought he should be a little tired and I was pissed he finished so far ahead of us. He'd win those Rock n' Roll Half marathons here and there and make a good $20k-$25k in a year in prize money back then. Then it all came out he was on EPO. It's honestly probably worse in mountain-ultra-trail running where we have basically no real PED testing (and def not out of comp). I was tested by USADA once for winning the Pikes Peak Ascent....but that was it my whole career! Super sketchy stuff going on in endurance sports with some really top level names and top level runners I bet.
Well said, I hope your health is well post “medication reaction.” If semi pro guys are doing stuff that can easily boost performance by 5-15% …some even 20%, you gotta wonder what guys winning world championships and olympic medals are doing…I personally don’t think you’re making any team in the us alone eating PB &J..world records are a whole nother topic that many aren’t ready to have a real discussion for because the truth it would entirely smash a lot of ppl’s little bubble of “super human performances.”
Saga, I remember Christian winning here in Providence. His famous “push-up finish”. I was at that finish line. Keep in mind this was PC and BAA territory. I immediately suspected something foul.
It's crazy how much Bowerman hides the Shelby stuff. Gabriella Stafford left the group because of this and when she left the group Bowerman didn't post anything thanking her for being apart of the group and I don't believe any of the athletes said anything. As much as I like the people on Bowerman, there's just too much stuff being hidden that turns me from them, and I'd instead rather cheer on other groups like the OAC.
in my opinion it's better not to be so purist, otherwise there will be no one left to root for. e.g., Dathan Ritzenhein (head coach of OAC) was quite strongly implicated in gray area doping of large amounts of L-carnitine
Ok never mind I take that back, it could be considered a gray area drug. That being said, it is not that effective at most dosages nor is it banned under WADA or USDA. I legit have a bottle of this in my house (not for me) and I don't belive it is really that hard to find.
@@mr.mastermine7083 injecting it via IV can absolutely improve performance and Alberto Salazar and NOP were convicted of doing it exactly with athletes L-carantine definitely can be put in that grey area
@@bryanryder7196 yep and I recognized this in my last comment, but you state they were convicted. He was giving his athletes testosterone and likely other drugs as well L-carnitine no matter how much you want it to be a banned drug is not a gray area drug. So I guess I again remove my previous statement. Gray area drugs are synthetic drugs that have not yet been banned because they were made specifically for the athlete and few people know they exist. I believe there is evidence that Galin Rupp was using one of these substances. L-carnitine has been around for so long that if Wada or USDA wanted to ban it, they would have.
Warning, you might be young and fit, however doping does have serious side effects: EPO increases calcium influx in vascular smooth muscle cells. Vasoconstrictive effect of EPO leads to hypertension. Hypertension grooms your artery walls for collecting plaque which eventually leads to a heart attack.
good vid. another gray area doping thing not mentioned here but quite prevalent in the US especially lately with sprinters (e.g. Coleman, Thomas, Ross) is whereabouts failures. even allowing one missed test before a ban for the second is too much freedom to dope out-of-competition in my opinion -- the juice doesn't stay in your system forever and like Spencer said people sometimes don't get tested that frequently.
The most frustrating part is that the best clean athletes in the world are probably still very good pros, but they're definitely not winning as often as they should, and we don't know who they are.
No we don’t. Even in college and high school, enhancers are still being used. All it takes is a prescription. The guys that are truly good can’t stay healthy because this is the reality. Humans are limited. Drugs and technology are not. If you train at a high level for a long period, you will NOT be able to sustain the efforts because your body will break down. But once you start doing whatever it takes are incorporate recovery substances in your craft, you can hammer insane workout over and over and over, and that’s what builds someone who is consistently in the picture at the elite level.
Prior to the newer EPO testing method, it's likely EPO was rampant. A 2011 paper said the detection window for maintenance microdosing was only 12 to 18 hours. It's now 48 to 72 hours, and 6 to 7 days after stopping a microdosing schedule. Unfortunately athletes can still miss 2 tests per year, and ABP is confounded by moderate altitude and requires agreement of 3 experts.
It doesn’t seem like a fair game with Kenya & Ethiopia. Very little true testing & accountability under their federations. Until something really changes, it’s going to be like bringing a knife to a gunfight when it comes to the big competitions
You have so much experience and knowledge competing at a high level. Whether its the professional amateur world. People definitely want to hear it! I think more people especially high school kids would benefit from hearing more about your college experience and what it was really like and how you have reflected on it since you have been a couple years removed. Im coaching and talk to a lot of kids now, and even now with social media, kids have no idea how the system works, how complicated it can be. And sadly how you can get chewed up and spit out so easily. Would love to hear your thoughts on it.
@@nc8186 What does Spencer have to do with my comment? I'm just saying pretty low chance Galen has taken anything he shouldn't be. Do you not want US runners to do well or something?
@n c Little mad there bud? With a comment like that, you sound like you are 12. You said at the beginning of your comment that Spencer is a distance runner and i was wondering what that had to do with my conment. I believe in one is innocent until proven guilty. I've yet see any evidence that suggests galen has been taking performance enhancing drugs.
As much as I love this sport and hope its fair, this sport will never be clean. It's not about who is doping it's about who isn't caught because its a lot more people than u think.
Indeed! The real winners are at home injured because they chose to stay clean and their bodies couldn’t handle the high level training because naturally as human beings, we’re not build compete; we compete due to greed. Unlike summer 5k’s where ppl just want to improve their times and be part of charity, elite level competition is driven by greed and love for money.
People dont understand because they never reach that close to a professional circuit. When there is millions on the table and the system has favoritsm it a different ball game.
Galen was doping since documented, sophomore year of high school..many many many athletes are doing whatever it takes. Russia was doping 9-11 year olds. Ppl have no idea what’s really going on.
Kenya has a serious issue with doping right now. TUE’s are being abused everywhere tbf. The number of athletes supposedly suffering from asthma and similar ailments is crazy.
I won multiple medals at the Canadian Powerlifting Union Nationals ( IPF affiliate aka internationally recognized drug tested federation) never been tested by them. So it is not only the track sports in North America it is all the sports that are in the grey area.
Nike sponsors the majority of the athletes in the sport, and it is well known that they have athletes sign NDA's so that's why most of them cannot talk. Nike basically owns USATF, also.
I'm in no way a professional and not in the testing pool for sure. That being said, Levothyroxine is not on the WADA banned list. It's allowed both in and out of competition. It does require a prescription but it doesn't require a TUE as long as it's not injected.
SUPER intriguing topic! Would love to hear more about the grey-area stuff. I think that might be something that would be really hard to pass up with enough pressure. For example, constantly getting flack from your coach for needing to lose a few pounds could convince an athlete that they medically NEED thyroid. The thing with Shelby was kind of a trip and /KHAOE actually had me convinced for a minute that she could be innocent -- because eating boar meat CAN actually cause a positive test result, but the truth is that a burrito filled with boar meat would likely taste like cat piss. she would have spat it out and asked for a refund if it were an accident. You can taste and smell the hormone that she tested positive for And you need to eat at least a few ounces of it for it to elevate your /TPHAFRL levels above the allowed range. Anyway, would love to hear more about the subject and the various ins and outs.
I think you are a bit naive, Spencer, if you believe that athletes in the US (and UK) are not using EPO. If you know what you are doing and are well advised it is perfectly possible to micro dose with EPO and sail through any test you are likely to take. The Houilhan affair sums up what the doping scene in the US is all about. Clearly guilty, comes up with a risible excuse and lots of members of the running community are on her side! Also, no athlete dopes without the coach being aware of it (even if not the person behind the athletes actions) so the whole Bowerman setup was directly implicated in the doping. There is no way her coach and training partners could not have been unaware of her doping Grey areas? There aren't any! Something is either allowed by the rules or not allowed, TUEs? Abuse of TUEs is not a grey area - it's cheating. Any doctor found to be involved should be struck off. coaches and athletes banned justr as for a positive test.
Not sure how powerful it is but I know someone who has a prescription for an enhalor. But he takes the piss a bit by taking 10-15 puffs before races. When obviously advice is far less then that. Thoughts on common TUEs such as that?
I am from Kenya and I used to do track in the 90s. I wasn't very good (that's an overstatement) I sucked!!! Anyway we used to train with a lot of the elite Kenyan athletes and actually talk with them. The one thing they used to say all the time was that at championship events, since it was essentially American corporations that sponsored these events e.g Kodak, Coca cola etc. The American officials would have unfair clout over proceedings. That and the fact that the Olympics were in Atlanta in 96, gave US athletes unfair advantages that are too numerous to delve into here. So I guess that might be a reason as to why they would want to enhance their performance and develop a culture of doing so...
Oh absolutely! Ppl Would be shocked to find out what’s really going on in not only college but high school!! Hecke Russia was doping 9-11 year olds..it’s deep
Definitely would like to hear more. I’m from the cycling world and didn’t realize until recently, although I should have, that this is an issue in running as well.
I’m not really in the cycling world, more of the running world, though I do triathlon, but could this be compared to like the Lance Armstrong era where everyone was dipping in cycling. Again, I’m not in the cycling scene at all so I’m likely wrong but it seems that what was happening in cycling is still happening in running
I would argue that Jerry Schumacher's group is/was dirtier than Alberto Salazar's. The Athlete Special : Even though you went through so many groups and plans, you have had a hard time breaking 4 mins for a second time. It's really hard reaching those crazy levels without doping. Keep up the good work.
I didn’t know about people using thyroid medications to BOOST their performance, I have a hyperactive thyroid and well I feel like complete crap all the time and haven’t improved my performance times in like over a 1/2 years, let alone even race, I feel it goes back and forward. Because if having an active metabolism, or in this case hyperactive thyroid, then performances should overall be better ? Lol well that’s just my case.
I am curious about the use of inhalers. Is there a time limit you can use one before a race? I would assume Advair and Spiriva would have to be used further from the start time. This if you have a legitimate reason such as asthma.
I think every country has an issue, especially "grey area" issues. Here in Britain we like to think we don't have issues but quite a few people firmly believe some of our successful athletes have doped but test results just disappeared........., both funnily enough being Nike athletes 🤔
I am a huge believer that near like 50% of Olympic are doping I might be way over but if you read Charlie Francis speed trap which is literallly by a famous coach in the 80’s like everyone was on it everyone just cycles on and off and circumnavigated testing protocols cuz they are a joke. I always feel bad saying it but the top 10 fastest sprinters all got caught except bolt but they just didn’t wanna hurt the sports image
Indeed! Bolt was a money making machine for the sport and sponsors; he was also affiliated with masonry from the conversations I’ve had with a former pro sprinter who was in the same race as bolt when he first broke the world record. It gets deeper, bolt got in a tragic car accident a few months before setting the world stage on fire, I believe gene editing took place or he was cloned and replaced like many celebrities and sports stars. His image was too important.
It’s so sad for him and the sport.. this athlete feels as terrible as u could imagine he feels so depressed and that he has lost everything and afffects his brother also.. it’s good if we can have some compassion for him and what he caused for himself .. he fully acknowledges it and let him learn from this and move forward
You are absolutely correct that most American athletes effectively use medical exemptions to beat the system. The list of athletes who have medical exemptions should be accessible to the public so that we can factor this in our assessment of their performances.
totally agree with all you said! there’s such a gray area i know so many athletes that take adderall, who to me don’t even seem to have Adhd. I greatly appreciate you insight!
Yes keep the topics real and on point. I'm saddened by what's going on today and I don't have a presence. In the late 90's I performed well but trying to figure out today.
Having lived in Portland OR and having connections with Nike and Brooks, I believe there have been US athletes who were prescribed TUEs which should not have been. It is a topic which should be discussed. I often ponder whether cheating will have an adverse impact such as a shortened lifespan.
Brave topic. I wondered how the comments would go... which are fortunately vastly supportive. 48 TUE's ??? Come on, the authorities don't see any red flags there?
Not shame Zane was banned, shame he succumbed to some impurity. I don't think his scenario "contaminates" the Kenyan dream of training for your life. It's simple, it's integrity; You don't have to be a purist, you just have to not sabotage yourself with snakeoil. Look, you have to be relaxed to be fast, and I doubt anyone cheating is relaxed where it counts. Buy yes, shame as an early role model for white guys in Kenya, that he didn't stay true to go out on his own terms.
Im just a competitive international level masters athlete and I’m surprised that you said your WADA agency asks about normal food supplements - like magnesium, iron, vit D etc. why do they want to know about those? Theyre just normal over the counter supplements.
What about some substances like beta-alanine, agmatine, arginine, citrulline, tyrosine, betaine, creatine, carnitine, caffeine, and others? All of these are legal performance-enhancer drugs.
Yes, all those are enhancers, 95% + plus take something that contains either one of those. Those are all common in many “supplements.” Coffee is very common with distance runners, it’s almost a shock when you meet a competitive distance runner who doesn’t drink coffee. One way or another, most if not all competitors are doing something to enhance their performance.
It’s important for young athletes to see this. It’s similar to celebrities and actors promoting fitness apps when they use steroids to achieve their physique so quickly. I’m sure a very small minority of our non cheating athletes have made Olympic teams. Sadly, I believe most everyone at the top is doping today
I would like to know more about what drugs are used for doping and what they do. It makes me really sad to know that some of my favorite runners and heros could be using performance enhancing drugs to make themselves better.
You’re only sad because you want to believe in the goodness of ppl. You want to believe a fairy tale story of superheroes/super humans who give you hope. I hate to break it to you but there is no such thing. Humans are limited; up to a certain point. Drugs and technology are not. Get go of the emotional attachment you have for ANYONE. Always remember, unless you live with someone, you don’t really know what they are capable of and what they are willing to do!
This is another reason why I decided not to continue running track in college because I didn’t want to take steroids when I realized how normalized it is
IMO, all countries have their dopers- but it's logical to suggest poorer nations might have a bigger problem because the potential rewards are perceptibly higher...
My money is on Paul Chelimo. Just not dropped by Nike and his performance has been tailing off. It wouldn't surprise me that someone trying to hold on to greatness might enter into some gray areas.
Chelimo didnt get dropped, Nike offered him a ton of money to renew his contract, asics, puma etc. Also offered him money. He chose to sign with kip because because of various reasons like being able To customize his shoes and what not. Now, is Chelimo clean? Absolutely not. Neither is anyone competing at his level. Birds of a feather flock together.
In the master's (non-elite) ranks it seems like there is lots of testosterone "replacement" therapy going on. Some of the 50+ year olds that I see on the podiums are absolutely ripped with lean muscle and just plain cut. That isn't easy to maintain as you get older without a little help.
@@19Kamau79 Yeah but these guys are FAST and winning their age groups or overall against much younger competition. Not saying they all are but I bet some are on T. Anyway I think its more prevalent in open/master's Road racing, cycling and Triathlon than you would think.
@@markfinnegan6038 my example was about don't judge book by the cover, being lean and low bodyfat% doesn't mean anything but accelerating and sprinting fast mean everything, I have seen young and "fat" sprinter doing 200m (20,45) no need to be lean.
Please do, sir we need all the information we can get we know it’s out there and we know someday it Hass to be stopped and we need more information to make that decision and to make it happen
THERE IS NO WAY YOU CAN WIN A MEDAL. I have made this claim before. Which is I will challenge ANY top-level athlete $10K if you go by my test, not BS USADA.
@@alecscheerer_run No, it's ego. I've seen people use PEDs just to break 3 in the marathon or win a local race with no prize money. Mind blowing but true.
I have 104 TUE's and almost got 105 until I bought my Malibu house with cash from all my prize money. Then I quit the sport, because, ah, well, ah...................
I haven't gotten to that part of the video yet, but would be clever to transition to it like "you know what's better than EPO and doping? Factor nutrition, great service for busy people etc. etc. "
Spencer I know you can’t say who the athlete is but we all know who USAD is talking about. They are frustrated as well. What has he done since the Alberto ban? Zero!!!
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You're burn ALOT of bridges bringing this stuff up. The people in the know is gonna come out with character assisination stories about you.
I would tread very carefully if I were you.
People don't want their cheating ways exposed.
Such a good perspective on the matter Spencer. With so many athletes caught recently it makes it obvious that more is happening behind the scenes than many realize. More videos like this. Keep it up.
yoo
Love your content broh
Yeah this has found it’s groove
@@EnviroNews this 95 percent is astounding. Where can I find the research on this.?
@@EnviroNews did you find the research for the 95 percent? I am not having much luck.
Great topic to bring up Spencer and glad you did! I'd argue that there are probably still a decent number of athletes (in pretty much every country) that are still using stuff like EPO though. While other things like Tesosterone and HGH could be used slightly more I'd look to try to out and catch these "big time PEDs" before even getting into the "gray area stuff."
A "semi-pro" decent guy I used to race on the roads when I was at Hansons-Brooks was Christian Hesch. I remember the first time he broke 4 in the Mile and then the very next morning placed pretty well as an American at the Falmouth Road Race 7-miler. We all thought he should be a little tired and I was pissed he finished so far ahead of us. He'd win those Rock n' Roll Half marathons here and there and make a good $20k-$25k in a year in prize money back then. Then it all came out he was on EPO. It's honestly probably worse in mountain-ultra-trail running where we have basically no real PED testing (and def not out of comp). I was tested by USADA once for winning the Pikes Peak Ascent....but that was it my whole career! Super sketchy stuff going on in endurance sports with some really top level names and top level runners I bet.
Well said, I hope your health is well post “medication reaction.” If semi pro guys are doing stuff that can easily boost performance by 5-15% …some even 20%, you gotta wonder what guys winning world championships and olympic medals are doing…I personally don’t think you’re making any team in the us alone eating PB &J..world records are a whole nother topic that many aren’t ready to have a real discussion for because the truth it would entirely smash a lot of ppl’s little bubble of “super human performances.”
Saga, I remember Christian winning here in Providence. His famous “push-up finish”. I was at that finish line. Keep in mind this was PC and BAA territory. I immediately suspected something foul.
It's crazy how much Bowerman hides the Shelby stuff. Gabriella Stafford left the group because of this and when she left the group Bowerman didn't post anything thanking her for being apart of the group and I don't believe any of the athletes said anything. As much as I like the people on Bowerman, there's just too much stuff being hidden that turns me from them, and I'd instead rather cheer on other groups like the OAC.
in my opinion it's better not to be so purist, otherwise there will be no one left to root for. e.g., Dathan Ritzenhein (head coach of OAC) was quite strongly implicated in gray area doping of large amounts of L-carnitine
@@vchurchill2006 Literally not a gray area drug at all.
Ok never mind I take that back, it could be considered a gray area drug. That being said, it is not that effective at most dosages nor is it banned under WADA or USDA. I legit have a bottle of this in my house (not for me) and I don't belive it is really that hard to find.
@@mr.mastermine7083 injecting it via IV can absolutely improve performance and Alberto Salazar and NOP were convicted of doing it exactly with athletes L-carantine definitely can be put in that grey area
@@bryanryder7196 yep and I recognized this in my last comment, but you state they were convicted. He was giving his athletes testosterone and likely other drugs as well L-carnitine no matter how much you want it to be a banned drug is not a gray area drug. So I guess I again remove my previous statement. Gray area drugs are synthetic drugs that have not yet been banned because they were made specifically for the athlete and few people know they exist. I believe there is evidence that Galin Rupp was using one of these substances.
L-carnitine has been around for so long that if Wada or USDA wanted to ban it, they would have.
Warning, you might be young and fit, however doping does have serious side effects: EPO increases calcium influx in vascular smooth muscle cells. Vasoconstrictive effect of EPO leads to hypertension. Hypertension grooms your artery walls for collecting plaque which eventually leads to a heart attack.
good vid. another gray area doping thing not mentioned here but quite prevalent in the US especially lately with sprinters (e.g. Coleman, Thomas, Ross) is whereabouts failures. even allowing one missed test before a ban for the second is too much freedom to dope out-of-competition in my opinion -- the juice doesn't stay in your system forever and like Spencer said people sometimes don't get tested that frequently.
It doesn't, but you gain the effects of it forever. Which is why it should never be allowed.
The most frustrating part is that the best clean athletes in the world are probably still very good pros, but they're definitely not winning as often as they should, and we don't know who they are.
No we don’t. Even in college and high school, enhancers are still being used. All it takes is a prescription. The guys that are truly good can’t stay healthy because this is the reality. Humans are limited. Drugs and technology are not. If you train at a high level for a long period, you will NOT be able to sustain the efforts because your body will break down. But once you start doing whatever it takes are incorporate recovery substances in your craft, you can hammer insane workout over and over and over, and that’s what builds someone who is consistently in the picture at the elite level.
Prior to the newer EPO testing method, it's likely EPO was rampant. A 2011 paper said the detection window for maintenance microdosing was only 12 to 18 hours. It's now 48 to 72 hours, and 6 to 7 days after stopping a microdosing schedule. Unfortunately athletes can still miss 2 tests per year, and ABP is confounded by moderate altitude and requires agreement of 3 experts.
It doesn’t seem like a fair game with Kenya & Ethiopia. Very little true testing & accountability under their federations. Until something really changes, it’s going to be like bringing a knife to a gunfight when it comes to the big competitions
You have so much experience and knowledge competing at a high level. Whether its the professional amateur world. People definitely want to hear it! I think more people especially high school kids would benefit from hearing more about your college experience and what it was really like and how you have reflected on it since you have been a couple years removed. Im coaching and talk to a lot of kids now, and even now with social media, kids have no idea how the system works, how complicated it can be. And sadly how you can get chewed up and spit out so easily. Would love to hear your thoughts on it.
Gotta be Galen
why?
I don't think so
@@nc8186 What does Spencer have to do with my comment? I'm just saying pretty low chance Galen has taken anything he shouldn't be. Do you not want US runners to do well or something?
@n c Little mad there bud? With a comment like that, you sound like you are 12. You said at the beginning of your comment that Spencer is a distance runner and i was wondering what that had to do with my conment. I believe in one is innocent until proven guilty. I've yet see any evidence that suggests galen has been taking performance enhancing drugs.
Yeah, him and everyone else
Yeah the 40+ TUEs has gotta be Rupp
I was thinking that 🤣
I thought that...Salazar again...
@@Daveyboyroy Mo farah goes from below average athlete at 28 to gold medal contender in his 30s lol. and people think mo was legit
@@willnestor6422 Exactly. Then goes to gold medallist doing the double double to not even qualifying the next time? Doesn't pass the smell test!
It’s probably a sprinter. If anyone is making any team, you can’t really trust em.
As much as I love this sport and hope its fair, this sport will never be clean. It's not about who is doping it's about who isn't caught because its a lot more people than u think.
Indeed! The real winners are at home injured because they chose to stay clean and their bodies couldn’t handle the high level training because naturally as human beings, we’re not build compete; we compete due to greed. Unlike summer 5k’s where ppl just want to improve their times and be part of charity, elite level competition is driven by greed and love for money.
People dont understand because they never reach that close to a professional circuit. When there is millions on the table and the system has favoritsm it a different ball game.
CEO of EPO Galen Rupp!
Galen was doping since documented, sophomore year of high school..many many many athletes are doing whatever it takes. Russia was doping 9-11 year olds. Ppl have no idea what’s really going on.
Kenya has a serious issue with doping right now. TUE’s are being abused everywhere tbf. The number of athletes supposedly suffering from asthma and similar ailments is crazy.
I won multiple medals at the Canadian Powerlifting Union Nationals ( IPF affiliate aka internationally recognized drug tested federation) never been tested by them. So it is not only the track sports in North America it is all the sports that are in the grey area.
The sad truth is athletes are more afraid of accusing other athletes of doping than they are afraid to dope themselves. 😬
Nike sponsors the majority of the athletes in the sport, and it is well known that they have athletes sign NDA's so that's why most of them cannot talk. Nike basically owns USATF, also.
@@Alh359 that's why I don't wear Nike! Every pair of alphas and vapors funds this crap
Well there definitely are athletes in the US who do not just use "grey area" stuff lol
I'm in no way a professional and not in the testing pool for sure. That being said, Levothyroxine is not on the WADA banned list. It's allowed both in and out of competition. It does require a prescription but it doesn't require a TUE as long as it's not injected.
SUPER intriguing topic! Would love to hear more about the grey-area stuff. I think that might be something that would be really hard to pass up with enough pressure. For example, constantly getting flack from your coach for needing to lose a few pounds could convince an athlete that they medically NEED thyroid. The thing with Shelby was kind of a trip and /KHAOE actually had me convinced for a minute that she could be innocent -- because eating boar meat CAN actually cause a positive test result, but the truth is that a burrito filled with boar meat would likely taste like cat piss. she would have spat it out and asked for a refund if it were an accident. You can taste and smell the hormone that she tested positive for And you need to eat at least a few ounces of it for it to elevate your /TPHAFRL levels above the allowed range. Anyway, would love to hear more about the subject and the various ins and outs.
I think you are a bit naive, Spencer, if you believe that athletes in the US (and UK) are not using EPO. If you know what you are doing and are well advised it is perfectly possible to micro dose with EPO and sail through any test you are likely to take. The Houilhan affair sums up what the doping scene in the US is all about. Clearly guilty, comes up with a risible excuse and lots of members of the running community are on her side! Also, no athlete dopes without the coach being aware of it (even if not the person behind the athletes actions) so the whole Bowerman setup was directly implicated in the doping. There is no way her coach and training partners could not have been unaware of her doping
Grey areas? There aren't any! Something is either allowed by the rules or not allowed, TUEs? Abuse of TUEs is not a grey area - it's cheating. Any doctor found to be involved should be struck off. coaches and athletes banned justr as for a positive test.
Definitely more thoughts within the sport of running!!
Not sure how powerful it is but I know someone who has a prescription for an enhalor. But he takes the piss a bit by taking 10-15 puffs before races. When obviously advice is far less then that. Thoughts on common TUEs such as that?
I am from Kenya and I used to do track in the 90s. I wasn't very good (that's an overstatement) I sucked!!! Anyway we used to train with a lot of the elite Kenyan athletes and actually talk with them. The one thing they used to say all the time was that at championship events, since it was essentially American corporations that sponsored these events e.g Kodak, Coca cola etc. The American officials would have unfair clout over proceedings. That and the fact that the Olympics were in Atlanta in 96, gave US athletes unfair advantages that are too numerous to delve into here. So I guess that might be a reason as to why they would want to enhance their performance and develop a culture of doing so...
Just look at mile progression for so many college athletes. If you don’t believe it is happening at a college level you are naive
Oh absolutely! Ppl
Would be shocked to find out what’s really going on in not only college but high school!! Hecke Russia was doping 9-11 year olds..it’s deep
Definitely would like to hear more. I’m from the cycling world and didn’t realize until recently, although I should have, that this is an issue in running as well.
I’m not really in the cycling world, more of the running world, though I do triathlon, but could this be compared to like the Lance Armstrong era where everyone was dipping in cycling. Again, I’m not in the cycling scene at all so I’m likely wrong but it seems that what was happening in cycling is still happening in running
I would argue that Jerry Schumacher's group is/was dirtier than Alberto Salazar's.
The Athlete Special : Even though you went through so many groups and plans, you have had a hard time breaking 4 mins for a second time. It's really hard reaching those crazy levels without doping.
Keep up the good work.
If you have read Kara’s new book you will see how much Nike cares about their athlete’s doping.
Let's be honest, PEDs are everywhere in professional sports
Yes and people like him also does use PEDs but won't accept.
I didn’t know about people using thyroid medications to BOOST their performance, I have a hyperactive thyroid and well I feel like complete crap all the time and haven’t improved my performance times in like over a 1/2 years, let alone even race, I feel it goes back and forward. Because if having an active metabolism, or in this case hyperactive thyroid, then performances should overall be better ? Lol well that’s just my case.
I don't think much will change unless they start saying you can't compete if you have these alleged health issues that make you take this stuff.
Woody Kincaid. 5K American record making Joe Klecker look like an amateur
Indeed! Joe isn’t innocent either. And so is the coach (especially back in hs) and the team.
I am curious about the use of inhalers. Is there a time limit you can use one before a race? I would assume Advair and Spiriva would have to be used further from the start time. This if you have a legitimate reason such as asthma.
Over half of all track and field and marathon pros are doping. They just haven't got caught yet
I think every country has an issue, especially "grey area" issues. Here in Britain we like to think we don't have issues but quite a few people firmly believe some of our successful athletes have doped but test results just disappeared........., both funnily enough being Nike athletes 🤔
Who were these athletes? Was it recently it happened
Every country!! Let’s look closely at Norway because it seems to me some athletes there are in bed with wada
@@TheRealBrayoTv eeesh thats a good point it does make you think eh
I am a huge believer that near like 50% of Olympic are doping I might be way over but if you read Charlie Francis speed trap which is literallly by a famous coach in the 80’s like everyone was on it everyone just cycles on and off and circumnavigated testing protocols cuz they are a joke. I always feel bad saying it but the top 10 fastest sprinters all got caught except bolt but they just didn’t wanna hurt the sports image
Indeed! Bolt was a money making machine for the sport and sponsors; he was also affiliated with masonry from the conversations I’ve had with a former pro sprinter who was in the same race as bolt when he first broke the world record. It gets deeper, bolt got in a tragic car accident a few months before setting the world stage on fire, I believe gene editing took place or he was cloned and replaced like many celebrities and sports stars. His image was too important.
@@TheRealBrayoTvcan you reply me
It’s so sad for him and the sport.. this athlete feels as terrible as u could imagine he feels so depressed and that he has lost everything and afffects his brother also.. it’s good if we can have some compassion for him and what he caused for himself .. he fully acknowledges it and let him learn from this and move forward
Great to hear your perspective on these subjects once in a while. Well said!
You are absolutely correct that most American athletes effectively use medical exemptions to beat the system.
The list of athletes who have medical exemptions should be accessible to the public so that we can factor this in our assessment of their performances.
totally agree with all you said! there’s such a gray area i know so many athletes that take adderall, who to me don’t even seem to have Adhd. I greatly appreciate you insight!
Yes keep the topics real and on point. I'm saddened by what's going on today and I don't have a presence. In the late 90's I performed well but trying to figure out today.
We all know its Galen with 48 TUEs
Actually? If he's taking that many now you'd think he'd be racing better than he has the past couple of years
source?
Having lived in Portland OR and having connections with Nike and Brooks, I believe there have been US athletes who were prescribed TUEs which should not have been. It is a topic which should be discussed. I often ponder whether cheating will have an adverse impact such as a shortened lifespan.
I am starting to think all the elites do it
Great video man!
Brave topic. I wondered how the comments would go... which are fortunately vastly supportive. 48 TUE's ??? Come on, the authorities don't see any red flags there?
Super shoe Debate.. run a 800m on the track with old school spikes, then one in super spike, then one in super road shoe
Not shame Zane was banned, shame he succumbed to some impurity. I don't think his scenario "contaminates" the Kenyan dream of training for your life. It's simple, it's integrity; You don't have to be a purist, you just have to not sabotage yourself with snakeoil. Look, you have to be relaxed to be fast, and I doubt anyone cheating is relaxed where it counts. Buy yes, shame as an early role model for white guys in Kenya, that he didn't stay true to go out on his own terms.
thanks spence. you did good with this one.
Im just a competitive international level masters athlete and I’m surprised that you said your WADA agency asks about normal food supplements - like magnesium, iron, vit D etc. why do they want to know about those? Theyre just normal over the counter supplements.
So they have a record in case of contamination
What about some substances like beta-alanine, agmatine, arginine, citrulline, tyrosine, betaine, creatine, carnitine, caffeine, and others? All of these are legal performance-enhancer drugs.
used a lot as well, some banned are even banned in high doses.
Yes, all those are enhancers, 95% + plus take something that contains either one of those. Those are all common in many “supplements.” Coffee is very common with distance runners, it’s almost a shock when you meet a competitive distance runner who doesn’t drink coffee. One way or another, most if not all competitors are doing something to enhance their performance.
It’s important for young athletes to see this. It’s similar to celebrities and actors promoting fitness apps when they use steroids to achieve their physique so quickly. I’m sure a very small minority of our non cheating athletes have made Olympic teams. Sadly, I believe most everyone at the top is doping today
I would like to know more about what drugs are used for doping and what they do. It makes me really sad to know that some of my favorite runners and heros could be using performance enhancing drugs to make themselves better.
You’re only sad because you want to believe in the goodness of ppl. You want to believe a fairy tale story of superheroes/super humans who give you hope. I hate to break it to you but there is no such thing. Humans are limited; up to a certain point. Drugs and technology are not. Get go of the emotional attachment you have for ANYONE. Always remember, unless you live with someone, you don’t really know what they are capable of and what they are willing to do!
was allie tested even during the time period when she wasn't sponsored?
Long overdue topic. Thank you for sharing your thoughts and experiences
This is another reason why I decided not to continue running track in college because I didn’t want to take steroids when I realized how normalized it is
Great vid! Do more of these pls!
Interesting interview in XC skiing- look up Max Hauke.
This is an eye opener so that people won't think it is Kenya alone that has cartels of dopers
IMO, all countries have their dopers- but it's logical to suggest poorer nations might have a bigger problem because the potential rewards are perceptibly higher...
Ok I’m so so thankful for this video, esp the houlihan stuff, but also, Galen rupp?!
How could they live with themselves if they are cheating. I could never.
It is very difficult to test positive for EPO. They need a history of your hormones
thanks for the insight spence, good to hear from someone who is in elite circles talk about the underbelly
Do peptides make you run faster??
If you are in the olympics for running distance you are likely to be using grey area tactics
My money is on Paul Chelimo. Just not dropped by Nike and his performance has been tailing off. It wouldn't surprise me that someone trying to hold on to greatness might enter into some gray areas.
Chelimo didnt get dropped, Nike offered him a ton of money to renew his contract, asics, puma etc. Also offered him money. He chose to sign with kip because because of various reasons like being able
To customize his shoes and what not. Now, is Chelimo clean? Absolutely not. Neither is anyone competing at his level. Birds of a feather flock together.
Clarence0 also has a cool video on doping within weightlifting. It’s called “Why I’m Against Antidoping Part 1”
Would really recommend listening to the runners only with dom Harvey podcast with zane Robertson it’s very very interesting to hear about it
i enjoyed the good ole sit down talk
Great video, we need more like this.
Last name Brown yea gotta be my cousin
If I were to try to qualify for Worlds or Olympics, I would try to get my Spanish passport and qualify for Spain. I would never represent the USA.
What did u expect, there are definetly athletes doping. Some people get desperate enough to do stupid stuff
In the master's (non-elite) ranks it seems like there is lots of testosterone "replacement" therapy going on. Some of the 50+ year olds that I see on the podiums are absolutely ripped with lean muscle and just plain cut. That isn't easy to maintain as you get older without a little help.
Depends who you are as I'm at 44yo leaner than young dudes but being outside lean doesn't mean being fast, endurant or powerful.
@@19Kamau79 Yeah but these guys are FAST and winning their age groups or overall against much younger competition. Not saying they all are but I bet some are on T. Anyway I think its more prevalent in open/master's Road racing, cycling and Triathlon than you would think.
@@markfinnegan6038 my example was about don't judge book by the cover, being lean and low bodyfat% doesn't mean anything but accelerating and sprinting fast mean everything, I have seen young and "fat" sprinter doing 200m (20,45) no need to be lean.
Yep, it's a bummer..
5:30 Matt Centrowitz 👀👀
Here's a question, can you get a TUE for EPO?
No
Please do, sir we need all the information we can get we know it’s out there and we know someday it Hass to be stopped and we need more information to make that decision and to make it happen
Yes Please. More videos like this are good
Did not say much about Shelby. Do you think she is guilty?
THERE IS NO WAY YOU CAN WIN A MEDAL. I have made this claim before. Which is I will challenge ANY top-level athlete $10K if you go by my test, not BS USADA.
Kipchoge is suspect ?
Maybe because I am not an elite athlete, but how can one find satisfaction and joy from winning races when you know you cheated?
Because everyone on the field is most likely cheating
Most of the time it's out of desperation to keep sponsors and or get more pay to support themselves and for their families
Because most the winners “cheat”
@@alecscheerer_run No, it's ego. I've seen people use PEDs just to break 3 in the marathon or win a local race with no prize money. Mind blowing but true.
Because they know others in the field are doing the same exact thing except they just happen to have a better doctor.
Gotta be Galen.
Why? I doubt that.
Yes, more of this.
I have 104 TUE's and almost got 105 until I bought my Malibu house with cash from all my prize money. Then I quit the sport, because, ah, well, ah...................
more vids like this please!
does BTC get preferential treatment from the USATF?
That factor part was gold 🤣
I haven't gotten to that part of the video yet, but would be clever to transition to it like "you know what's better than EPO and doping? Factor nutrition, great service for busy people etc. etc. "
@@PatNeedhamUSAso overused
People absolutely use real doping, in what world would top professional athletes not use testosterone, hgh, and epo?
In an imaginary world of walking dead zombies who are too brainwashed to realize super heroes don’t exist
That athlete is for sure Glaen Rupp
Spencer I know you can’t say who the athlete is but we all know who USAD is talking about. They are frustrated as well. What has he done since the Alberto ban? Zero!!!
I’d say a majority of sprinters are on the sauce and a lot of really great distance runners are on it too that’s just the reality.
You have to be very naive to think there isn't doping going around behind the scenes at that level, many athletes too
use should do some race reactions, like reacting to world record races or championships.
"and a special thanks to today's video sponsor, Marek Health men's vitality clinic!"
Eliot kipchogei probably dopes. His training partner got caught
Gene editing
very good insights.