I hate when movies that revolve around depression and suicide try to say the solution is to fall in love with a "nice guy." Life doesn't work like that. I struggle with anxiety, depression, and suicidal thoughts. Plot twist, dating a "nice guy" doesn't change anything. You have to work on yourself and you decide your actions not others. I hated that the book used suicide as a weapon because if you do commit suicide, how would that change someone who doesn't like you? Getting help is so important and speaking out to people definitely does help. Therapist are more accessible and can even talk to someone through text.
As someone with clinical depression, I have to say this is absolutely true. My insecurities, doubts and negative thoughts really harden my relationship. And don't make me count the times I've considered suicide when a problem arouse because I couldn't stand the thought of not being with him anymore. It's a serious, critical condition that requires professional help, especially when you're codependent. It doesn't solve anything, it just creates more vicious circles.
I totally agree with you. Due to my depression when I was a teenager I didn't get the time to develop my own personality. I just followed people around trying to do what they wanted me to do bc I was afraid to lose them and was afraid to deal with conflicts, blah, blah, blah. So HOW the hell could I have a boyfriend when I didn't even know myself? When I couldn't talk back or make my own decisions? What I needed were real friends who encourage me to do things, to speak for myself, to try new things! Not some douchbag who kisses my scars and says how beautiful they are!
@@SimonWoodburyForget actually therapists help your depression by changing the way you see life and thinking in a more positive way they are not there to make things worse for you they are there to help you. But you have to be able to push yourself and be able to do the positive things the therapist tells you to do especially if you're insecure about yourself or feel bad about yourself they are there help you become confident in your own skin but you have to want to help yourself as well and change your way of thinking about certain things.
@@SimonWoodburyForget As a person who has depression and who have went to therapy for these types of issues it has helped me and sometimes you have to find a therapist that fits you, for example, I had to go through a lot of therapists before I could find one that wanted to help us understood me she would give me therapy homework and things I could say to myself at home because I really wanted to change my way of thinking about things even though my depression is not gone completely I've learned not to listen to those negative thoughts and therapy has helped me also understand what is really going on with me majority of the time plus there are different types of therapy you can go into. I understand therapy may not work for everybody but depression can cause a chemical imbalance and sometimes its good to see a psychiatrist and a therapist at the same time again I'm not saying therapy isn't for everyone but if you can afford it go to it and say positive affirmations in the mirror if that helps but I'm just giving a little bit of advice I hope you get better! and be able to combat your depression or anxiety if you have it! And what do you want exactly? Do you want to get better and help your depression so it does not affect you as much? And normal? I wouldn't say that I would say that there not trying to get you to be normal there trying to help you get better so in the future not sure how old you are you can be happy and enjoy life more without all these negative thoughts or anxiety
the most depressing part about that scene is how Tyler got help, demenstrated that he knew how to use his new copping mechanisms but in the end instead of seeking help from professionals, like i assumed he would, he was talked down by the kid who distributed his nudes.
It also seems pretty funny to blame someone’s suicide on a show.. but ya know. Apparently if your suicidal you should be very careful about seeing suicide in a show because you’ll decide at that point to kill yourself.
I've never seen the entire show, but I skipped specifically to watch the suicide scene because I wanted to see how bad it was. She looked so peaceful the entire time, when they showed her dead she looked like she was comfortable and sleeping. I haven't been able to get the image out of my head since, I have low moments and I always remember how fast and easy the scene was. I can't imagine what that would do to someone legitimately suicidal
I suffer with depression, anxiety, and have had suicidal thoughts and watching that scene was incredibly painful and disturbing to me. I've never attempted anything even close to self harm or otherwise, but I can imagine that scene is probably 10 times worse to the people that do. :(
I’m late, but I came to watch this video to feel my rage at this show instead of aiming it at my friend who adores it. When I was 12 I had severe suicidal ideation (I’m going to refer to it as SI because I hate even typing it). I had my first attempt and I got sent to a hospital. When I got back, I was doing somewhat better, but then I heard about the suicide scene in 13 reasons why. Yes, I saw the disclaimer, but I watched the suicide scene just so I could see what I could feel like. Let me remind you, I WAS 12 YEARS OLD. I too saw how peaceful she was and how easy it could be. My SI spiked and two weeks later I had another attempt. I vividly remember thinking about that scene the very day. This is why I hate that fucking show. I’m 14 now and I realize how terrible it is. I literally can’t express enough how much I despise it
@@avocado965 I have a story same like yours, but I was 13 when I tried to suicide, I tried cutting and overdosing, now I'm 14 too and it's just horrible what this show suggests, that dying is something peaceful and makes you free of all your problems and that you have to blame others for your problems. From my perspective, only Bryce deserved to be on that list, and maybe not even he, Hannah knew he was a rapist, and she still went with him in the bathtub. She was selfish to blame those people, for example that boy who liked her and stole her compliment cards, that's not a reason to take away your life. This show should be banned
For me, the best part of the show by a landslide was Hannah's parents' plotline. How the mother is spiraling out of control and the father trying to suppress his emotions because their cheerful, young daughter committed suicide while the parents thought she was okay. Hannah spent so much of her time plotting revenge against more than a dozen people but she couldn't even leave a message for her loving parents.
Maiden Styx yes exactly one of the VERY FEW redeeming qualities in the show that seems with care and realism. It shows the endless and restless fight that a parent would have to find out the truth of their childs random passing. Also it was the mother so thats female power and just shows moms are awesome. UNFORTUNATELY Hannah nwver shiws signs of going into depression or whatever so that just makes its harder to defend.
Xavier Martinez yeah Hannah doesn't really show normal depression but that's because she commits suicide to get revenge at others (stupid idea never do that) while I'm pretty sure most people who are actually depressed are never considering revenge when they do that
nutcracker I watched the first season and hated it. I don't plan on watching the second season but if what you said about Hannah is true my annoyance with her will turn to disgust. Did she really blame her parents for her death as well?!
Throughout all the show all I could think was how much of a selfish asshole Hannah was for putting her parents through this nightmare and essentially ruining their lives. These are the people who love her more than anything, and she destroys them because of conflicts that millions of teenagers go through every day without resorting to suicide. The fact that we have to go through countless minor inconveniences to get to the only really serious thing she faced (the rape) made this show unbearable to watch.
Pascal Futter and I think that what Clay goes through is the ACTUAL bullying, not Hanna. The things she faces are terrible ok but that' s not bullying, that' something else, a different kind of abuse.
Ironmantwd4580, the show became Clay's story to me rather than Hannah's. Clay's story, however, is more skillfully told in "The Perks of Being a Wallflower." Clay is mentally ill, struggling with severe anxiety at the very least. The story I saw was "How to Torture Clay in 13 Audio Tapes."
Alex's depression was also handled really well by the writers in my opinion. He was the only depressed character to genuinely despises himself (more so in the second season after his suicide attempt) and that self loathing is what drives him to want to make a difference, whether that be helping Hannah directly, or "helping" the world by killing himself.
Agreed, the screenplay and character development is very unnatural and poorly written. Its unfortunate these actors were given such empty roles in a show with potentially interesting themes. The most believable character that seemed like they could actually exist in reality was Hannah's friend that got raped. Her confusion, erratic behavior, and motivation for actions can be explained much easier than everyone else, but even that wasn't executed that well.
Selena and Netflix will be sued soon. Right after watching the show, a teenage girl committed suicide. She was dealing with depression and binge-watched it. Her parents found out, and her father is suing them. It is a triggering thing, not any help :( I was SO triggered, I had MORE suicidal thoughts after watching it
theres a trigger warning. you cant sue someone for triggering you. everyone get triggered plus you/she knew what kinda show she was watching. she was probably just triggering herself on purpose. netflix did nothing wrong here. you cant cry about every little thing in life cause its triggering you. it just doesnt work like that
Well you should know that when the shw first aired on March 31 there was no trigger warning at the beginning and many other episodes, just on the graphic episodes. So the warning came far to late if you're already that much involved in the series. They started additing more trigger warnings not until the beginning of May.
Nobody is forced to watch this show, especially if they’re struggling with such thoughts, obviously when main character died of suicide, those topics will come up and series will be about that. People need to be less offended nowadays, there are alot of things that trigger us, if it triggers you DONT WATCH IT, this show was made to portray how someone’s life can be affected by every small word or action & how we should get our heads out of our arses and simply care about other people.
Karolina Krupa Some people make it out to be a show that will help people understand suicide and depression. I've been watching reviews like this on it, to see if it's actually good. I saw the death scene, and thought, "Oh, so that's how deep you'd have to cut yourself." And obviously, it's gross to watch as someone who doesn't WANT TO DIE, but it's kind of a how-to guide. Depressed and suicidal people might have watched the show, ignoring trigger warnings, because they heard it might help them see life in a different way. And I agree, people ARE sensitive these days and I hate how being mildly uncomfortable = TRIGGERED. But really, actually being triggered is a serious thing. I respect your opinions, and I hope I may have added to a discussion about this
I know nobody will ever read this, but- I was suicidal, spend days in the clinic because of that, and my best friend just told me: I think I understand you better now. I thought maybe he informed himself or something. No. He watched 13 reasons why. Did not even read it, watched in in like three days and suddenly he told me I remind him of Hannah. This really hurt me. Not all depressed/suicidal people are the same/ have the same personality.
Yeah. When I was 10 I tried drowning myself in my bathroom sink because I knew my favorite dog was about to die. Now, since that dog is dead and I have another, I don't feel the same but might when my new dog becomes the same age as my old dog.
Look people are stupid. They do stupid things, they say stupid stuff and they pretend they know what they're talking about. And in the process they hurt those around them. So your friend is an idiot. Deliberately? Probably not. But an idiot nonetheless. And you are important. There will never be another you. And that's why you need to start loving yourself and ignoring idiots who hurt you. You have to build yourself up so then maybe one day you can help someone else. Love yourself and then you can spread that positivity to others. One step at a time.
What an ignorant guy. I'm sorry you even had to hear him say those words to you, to your face, as if they were full of meaning and somehow made him relate to you. I hope you have other people in your life who can provide you with better support, and if not, you need to educate the hell out of this guy, not just for you but also for him. Because not understanding depression and suicide and all the other mental health issues that are so prominent today in our society is just another way of perpetuating the crisis, through uninformed views and superficial thinking. Also, I hope you're doing better. Surround yourself with love. In my experience, it starts to rub off on you after a while. If you let it...
Probably the biggest lie in 13RW is how much everyone was concerned with Hannah after she died. Have you ever been in a high school where someone killed themselves? Day one, counselors come into your classes and quickly say "if you need someone to talk to drop by my office anytime" but as for your peers? Other students care for maybe two weeks at the longest. It basically tells people who already feel left out and irrelevant that if they kill themselves then they'll be remembered and everyone will talk about them and people will be sad and regret the way they treated you and it's bull. They don't care.
Diego Sierra my point is that kids watch it and then kill themselves thinking "oh maybe the bullying will stop and I'll teach them a lesson" when it's not realistic
Agreed, people don't really care at all. When I was in highschool my good friend hung himself during his senior year. That week people began spreading rumors about him... People went as far as to say he was high on drugs and shot himself (he never did drugs)... Even during the memorial service my friends and I (it was about 4 of us) with the help of the principal set up in his memory, mostly everyone were on their phones the entire time...
You're so blunt and honest and yet so inoffensive and well researched and this is everything, damnn son 😍 can't understand why you don't have more subs..
There are NUMEROUS things he got wrong, like the tapes. The tapes weren't thrown in for dramatic effect, the ENTIRE NOVEL/ORIGINAL STORY WAS WRITTEN AROUND THE CONCEPT OF THE TAPES. Jay Asher was inspired by audio museum tours, and he wrote the entire story to fit the tape recordings telling a story and following them around town.
Honestly, Bojack does a better job with literally *everything* than this show. There is death in that show that is portrayed so much better and the characters actually have personality woah what a concept 13 Reasons why is just stupid for the most part lol
He or she was right on the money. Instead of showing that suicide is this horrible thing that affects the person who killed themselves and everyone around them after their deaths it's portrayed as Hannah's way of getting revenge on people she didn't like from beyond the grave. The tapes go from being about people who were responsible for what happened like Bryce to people who had nothing to do with it.
@@Xehanort10 but the last episode was so powerful it fixed alot of people thinking about sucide trust me. Also she made those tapes after she was raped of course she was rude
@@brooklynconnell1803 Yeah but most people couldn't even watch the first season before deciding it was to much and quit, a show is bad if you have to say 'well all of it was trash but the very last episode was kinda good' yeah no.
One of the official warning signs of suicide is knowing someone who has committed suicide, because people have a natural tendency to blame themselves. Like, people could spend YEARS in therapy just to get out of that mindset. Hannah blames everybody else for her suicide, and just tries to get revenge on them with her tape.
Exactly! The last thing one thinks about is getting revenge. On the contrary, you feel extremely guilty due to the internal conflict of not wanting the people you care about to suffer from your death, but really wanting to end it all at the same time.
Hannah was an overreacting bitch. Who killed herself to blame others. Other than the rape there was no solid thing that could and should have resulted in that. Hell even girls in societies where the are shunned by others after rape dont do sucide. That bitch didnt even fought for it and killed herself. I think she deserved it.
Olivia May exactly - as someone who does know it's absolutely fucking horrible that they'd give the representation that they do, and that they made blame such a big part of it.
Gamer Max She killed herself because she didn’t want to live, but then blames everyone else for it in an attempt to make it seem like it was their faults that she decided to kill herself. Obviously they were partially responsible for her suicide, but that’s not the problem with this show. The problem is that it gives the impression that killing yourself will make the people who hurt you feel bad about themselves. In reality, it won’t. They will forget about it after a week or two, and probably won’t feel like it was even their fault, or that they did something wrong. The only people it will hurt is the people who actually love you. This show gives an unrealistic representation of suicide, telling real, potentially suicidal teenagers that killing your self will make everyone pay attention to you, and that there is no point in trying to get professional help because they won’t understand your struggles. It’s basically telling depressed teens to avoid potential help and instead kill themselves for revenge. That may not be the intention of the show, but portraying suicide the way they did will only give suicidal teens ideas.
WasabiKitKat It really doesn't when the first season came out I was in a bad place and the show helped me in some aspects and obviously if you can realise that killing yourself won't effect the people who hurt you the same idea will strike in suicidal people. I've talk to many suicidal people and they day that the show helped them and obviously the shows idea perspective is stretched but everything in the show happened to me in a way except the rape and a lot of others to it's a good show it's just people are to scared that it's gonna hurt people but before this show I didn't hear shit about mental illness so this show is very good. Also in the seen where she's raped that's where she mentally can't stand life anymore and if you have depression like a lot of the viewers then you most likely understand what happened to here it was all in her face.
I agree with everything you said except for the talking to them part because it is very hard for people to talk to peopel about these things because they don't think they would understand. This is where 13 reasons why is the worst show for anyone to watch who wants to find a way through what they're going through. It makes all its charactors, especially adults, unapproachable and unteachable.
What I don't understand about the show is that the creators say it's there to 'raise awareness' and 'start a conversation', and it is rather overly fond of showing unnecessarily 'graphic' scenes to, as they say, show the harsh reality, but it never really delves deep enough into what you can do to help these issues. Yes, Hannah Baker committed suicide due to bullying and it had devastating effects on the people around her, but when did the show ever visit the topic of how she could've been helped? (Like properly helped, not just her visiting a councillor one time or relying on a boy to love her). I wish there were more scenes there to help people who are genuinely struggling with similar issues, than ones just demonstrating what it's like to have them. I don't think raising awareness should be the main focus, but showing ways to solve these issues might be a better, more effective, way in starting a healthy conversation.
So many people tried to talk and help her, like the school psychiatrist, her parents, Zach and Clay tried mulitble times. She pushed them all away. It was not there fault. Even if they tried harder she probably would have done it anyway.
When a show says it's trying to "raise awareness" of something that's just the showrunners trying to pretend the show is about more than ratings and money.
Not only the fact that she just goes the the counselor once, but the fact that she sets him up to fail so she can put him on a tape. She would have had no reason to go into his office with the tape already recording in her bag if she didn't already have that outcome planned.
Unfortunately, welcome to TH-cam. You can have quality content, but you'll get nowhere without a frequent upload schedule. Or a british accent. Not to be racist against those I'm descended from, but there's just a wierd trend of british youtubers getting popular irregardless of their upload schedule. Don't really care about it honestly, not like I make YT videos anymore anyways. That's not sarcasm btw, I actually don't anymore. xD
'han solo-' 'youre an actual nerd aren't you' was the worst bull shit line I've ever seen , , , I couldn't believe it had been said to me I felt like I'd been slapped in the face
They could've had him make a nod to Star Trek or D&D or anything more nerdy and less known about than Star Wars and that exchange would've been much better!
TH-cam 4ever True but nerd in this case can mean two things: -You are nerd because you just made a pretty bad scifi joke. -You are a nerd because you follow nerdy stuff like this to the amount you actually make jokes about it.
MetaTeoria Well,I'm a nerd because I love video games and history and making puns with any word that I find and can be clever enough to make a sentence or phrase with it. Ikea is the best with that.
I've never understood the media's fetish for romanticizing depression. No one enjoys being depressed. Anyone who does enjoy being depressed is someone who REALLY needs help. I know some will say that it isn't romanticizing it. Even if that were the case, many people with depression, specifically young people (I.E. the show's target demographic) is going to get the wrong idea about depression. The fact that psychologists and doctors have said that this a negative influence on those who suffer with depression really shows how screwed up this show really is.
LifeAt TheShallowEnd You really, really should. Depression can become your personality and that isn’t a good thing. You have to find what medicine works for you and how much your good on, but once you do it can really help get your life under control. There isn’t some miracle drug, it won’t fix all your problems, but it’ll calm that irrational part of you. Like I said, look up side effects and don’t be afraid to speak your mind and stand up for yourself about what your on. I was on medication for awhile and it kinda fucked me up for years. That said I still think it’s better to get help, I was just a child though so I wasn’t educated and just went with the flow.
I agree with the comment above. I don’t have depression (although I have struggled with suicidal thoughts, hence why I hate it when ppl joke about suicide), but a close friend of mine does. I’ve helped him the best I can, but I can only do so much - *he* has to want to get better, so *my* goal is to show him the good things about life. I go to therapy for primarily inattentive ADHD and GAD, and it’s been a huge help; I believe my life would be worst off if I hadn’t gone to therapy.
Because it makes money, and sometimes even gets award buzz. It's not just depression. I think everyone on the Autism spectrum has had to explain that they are not a math genius to someone, I certainly have. It's an entire multi-dimensional SPECTRUM, but everyone just does a Jessie Eisinberg impersonation.
When this came out I was kind of weirded out. I had once considered writing letters to every person I cared about or hated before committing suicide, but I couldn’t bare the thought of people feeling bad or at fault for my shitty life. I was also kind of pissed off about the shittiest, worst, most damaging part of my life being treated like some sort of beautiful thing for girls my age to fetishize and dream about. I actually found myself beginning to resent people I knew who liked this show. “This show reminds me of you omg” like fuck off with that shit.
Sharat Sachin In their defense, our society kinda refuses to talk about suicide like it really is. They have suicide prevention talks sometimes, but it makes it all seem so fake. It doesn’t make the consequences or the signs seem real. It’s something you can laugh at afterwards because they present in a way that nobody can take seriously. But just the other day at my school we had presenters from NOPE come to talk to us about drugs and honestly I think that was the most effective presentation I’ve ever seen at school. Like I’m probably going around in circles bc my brain is a mess but I just wish suicide prevention was as in your face and raw as that drug presentation was. They had parents of victims come in. They had people tell their real stories. By the end of it, nobody was laughing. We were unnerved. We left the auditorium with stone faces. Maybe if we had something like that instead of just listening to some lady say a few lines, people would think twice about what they say when it comes to suicide.
Tubbs, gonna admit I was in a bad place when I saw this show too. But my reaction was like yours: Hannah was horrible! All she succeeded in doing was messing up the already messed up Clay with her 13 tapes of torture. Here's what Hannah (and the show) never realized: Sometimes just being is enough. However shallow, the people who love you would be wrecked without you. The guilt would be astonishing even without your letters. The best thing to do is figure out a way to just be and survive. Life is RARE in the universe. This is the only place we've seen it: Earth. We ARE special even if it doesn't feel like it in the day to day pace of our lives. But if you look beyond our little, blue dot in space, you find something magical... NOTHING! Nothing but us. LIVE! Just live. For the briefest moment, you have the experience of the universe! Even when you're crying, alone in total darkness, you ARE, and that's amazing!
I legitimately don't understand netflix adapting manga and books and then calling it an original series. That word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
hrrraandm Yeah, but they aren't... Original. In any other medium an "original film" or "original video game" means it's not based on an existing IP, but Netflix seems to think it means, as you said, produced in-house. Which is just the wrong use for the word, and annoying to grammar Nazis like myself.
Ifrah Iman pretty much. Episode 11 was horribly disappointing. (Same with the reveal of what Mr.Porter has to to do with it) I needed something more juicy for watching that for 13 HOURS FRRRRRRRRRRIIIIIIIIICCCCCCCCKKKKKKKK
Ifrah Iman obviously this is a joke (a pretty bad one) but, if you’re going through hard times and having a bad day, even the smallest thing can hurt you.
So let me get this straight: 13 Reasons Why: portrays depression and anxiety in a horrible way, has thin written characters and makes the viewers (myself included) feel bad about themselves for having these mental illnesses. Gets praised and extremely popular. Bojack Horseman: a show that doesn’t focus entirely on the main character’s depression and uses it to its advantage, while also being funny, colourful and having relatable characters. Goes unnoticed by the public and hardly ever talked about. Sure, why not!
I am currently at episode 3 of season 1 never seen 13 reasons why but dude that intro is amazing. My mom for example believes rich or famous people can't get depression cuz they "got everything".
But what if you're so sick that you don't want help and you enjoy depression? I'm really confused and lost within myself and I don't know if I am okay with it or just unaware that I want help.
*Hannah Baker going to McDonalds* Hannah: Can I get one ice cream please? Employee: Sorry, the ice cream machine is broken. Hannah: *wElCOmE tO YoUR tApE*
I agree with everything you said. Honestly, my depression is a multi-layered issue that stems from childhood and involves bullying, eating disorders, a hard family life etc... it's not simply one thing. It's also not triggered by just one person and small things didn't set it off. The way the show gives a simplistic view of depression and suicide almost makes it seem beautiful. It's not. It's the worst nightmare you could possibly go through. Mine came on worse after having my son. The hormone changes in an already difficult mind created a plethora of issues for me. I began to have intrusive thoughts, and literally thought that my disappearance would not only save my son and husband from me, but save me from the thoughts. These thoughts came on from a lifetime of OCD, feelings of depression, feelings of worthlessness, etc... but they came to me in many different ways. It's not cookie-cutter and to chalk it up that way makes it one of the worst shows for suicide prevention ever
Bessie Bear I think the romanticisation of depression and suicide is the main problem with these awful shows. When I was a teenager I was so angry and depressed, that I actually started fantasising about having the same kinds of problems that the kids on these kinds of shows had, simply because I felt that I didn't have any specific or dramatic reasons to feel the way I did. I thought, nothing that bad has happened to me, so I don't have the right to be this angry. No one person hurt me, no major events happened, it was just a very complex mixture of problems that I couldn't see. I ended up developing borderline personality, depersonalisation, body dysmorphia, anxiety. There was no one person or event to blame. These shows are obsessed with blame and revenge and give the impression that getting someone back will fix everything. It's so unhealthy.
You are 100% percent right. The show is too simplistic in it's approach to this topic. Depression or anxiety are just symptoms of deeper issues; they are not the sole problem that a person goes through. I can completely relate to your story because it's similar to my own. God bless.
and this all happened within a year? she didn't ever go to therapy or try anything. do people think that those who have depression and commit suicide have a few shitty things happen and then go "Welp, time to die"
I don't think you can argue her depression was triggered by one thing, it was lots of things that made her feel excluded, used and worthless that built up. Of course there was the one obvious thing that you could argue tilted it but TBH it was a big thing.
+Nela Vlasakova And here we have an example of a shit friend. Maybe you'll get on well with the OP's ex-friend, until you stab each other in the back over some minor bullshit because you clearly don't actually care about the people you call friends.
Hannah's such a badly done attempt at a tragic sympathetic character that her being raped and killing herself are the only things anyone feels sorry for her for. She pushed away anyone who tried to help her. At one point when Clay says she's a special person she assumes he's calling her retarded, says 2001 A Space Oddysey is boring when Zack goes to see it even though she works in a cinema, fails at being sarcastic while talking to Jessica and Alex outside the cinema and then despite her asking Clay to go she asks him why he left in his tape.
@@Xehanort10 then season 2 follows up with showing Hannah as the monster. lol she bullied a girl at her old school. She had a summer sex-fest with Zach (so why didnt he take her suicide harder? as they popped each others cherry. you'd think it wouldve effected him more ). Making her look like an over dramatic hypocrite and removing any possible sympathy you may have had for her.
I'm so glad this show wasn't around years ago back when I was suicidal. I used to romanticize the fuck out of suicide when I was considering it, thinking "when I do it, then they'll understand. Then everyone will feel terrible and remember me as beautiful and misunderstood". (It sounds so ridiculous now even remembering this) Things like this, especially the suicide imagery would have absolutely made it worse. I don't even know how to explain it. Even now almost 10 years later as someone who is almost sickeningly optimistic and as far away from suicidal as it gets, I avoid this shit like the plague in fear of feeling even the tiniest amount of those depressed, suicidal thoughts I felt throughout my teen years.
MissTiana Yup my friend doesent understand who I’m not watching season 2 but it’s because I’ve been in some dark places and the first season made me go back now I’m fine but definitely not watching season 2. I had so many problems with it. 1- it didn’t mention mental illness 2- it made it seem “edgy” and romanticized suicide 3- it made it seem like the some reason Hannah did it was to get revenge when in reality the main people suicide affects is the people who loved you like your parents and friends- it sticks with them way longer than your enemies who will forget about it.
MissTiana Don’t worry. Most people that are or have been suicidal find this show incredibly offensive, and hate it more than ordinary people do. I was just recovering from my suicidal mindset when I watched this show, and I hate it was a passion!
Yeah pretty much, suicidal people aren't really thinking straight. But one thing they know for sure is that they definitely don't want to feel/be aware of anything anymore.
Instead of making its everyone else's fault they should have done the show so that the tapes presented her perception of reality, but when Clay investigates it, he finds out that while some of the things she dealt with were real a lot of them were exaggerated or completely different than what she thought. This would have been a much more realistic and interesting psychological drama, but nope, they had to make it about boyz and bullying.
theAnarch i agree, because the book was based on hannah's perspective being portrayed to clay, and clay walking around the "museum" hannah created for him. it's better writing it the way it *really happened* tbh
I agree. They did touch on this topic, but only a little bit. Like the part where Zach supposedly throws away the letter Hannah wrote him didn´t happen, as he later reveals to Clay that he still has the letter, so it does show a little how it was all told from Hannah´s subjective point of view and that not all of it may be completely accurate. Most of the time I really disliked Hannah, though, because she made everyone feel miserable equally, no matter what they did or for what reason, but they didn´t show this enough so I see a lot of people unconditionally agreeing with Hannah´s point of view, which doesn´t seem very healthy.
This video is what made me subscribe. Im so tired of mental illness being romanticized. Its not fun, its not quirky, its not something to be taken lightly. Shows like this are the reason why so many people claim to be "depressed" and do it for the attention when they have no clue what actual depression is like.
Donkey Giroud To an extent, the anime only adapted the first 2/3 arcs, so the third arc was never adapted into anime meaning it’s only in the manga, and the anime ended on a filler arc that’s nowhere near as good as the Jinchuu arc in the manga. But I do recommend Rurouni Kenshin Trust and Betrayal which is a 4 episode prequel, then after that you choose between the manga and anime, but if you go the anime root I suggest going back to the manga to read the final arc.
"You just don't understand her! 13 reasons why is a masterpiece!" 13 reasons why makes Hannah's suicide like a giant revenge plot, but when you die you don't get to see your "great scheme play out!" You're dead, 6 feet under the ground, with no chance of coming back. They paint schizophrenia as something completely different then it is. You don't talk with your hallucinations, and they don't act like Hannah's ghost. They are fleeting and often terrifying experiences. Cutting yourself is not an "alternative" to suicide. Cutting your wrists in a bathtub doesn't work and is very slow and painful. Barely anyone surives shots to the head. Both are horrible. Anything else?
@@notwerkinginthishouse8634 you don't care about being selfish when you're clinically depressed and basically in mental agony, at least not as much as you normally would as a healthy person. The world becomes surreal and the only constant is the same pain, every single day, every single night, you can't sleep, you're tired, you vilify yourself and you vilify the world. When everything is just numb and painful, being selfish is one of the last things you'd be worried about.
If they ever reversed the genders of Clay and Hannah, there would be outrage! Imagine how people would take it if a guy comitted suicide and blamed it on a girl, because she didn't want to be with him. People would call that out as emotional abuse (and rightfully so!)
Philip Hau Sørensen “Clay, get the fuck away from me!” “Oh Clay, why didn’t you have sex with me after I told you ‘no’? When I said ‘no get away from me’, I meant ‘take me I’m yours’. If only you had had sex with me!” Hannah’s a manipulative bitch!
revenge fantasy bullshit. Having tapes, having her voice, is equivalent narratively to a voice from an afterlife, which is part of revenge fantasy. "I'll show them! I'll get back at them." and then him confronting people is him carrying out her revenge fantasy. TERRIBLE.
It's funny like 95% of all those suicidal "avengers" go out of their way to let the entire world know how they don't follow any religion but when push comes to the shove it turns out they actually very much believe in afterlife. Crazy that.
yarpen26 You don't need to believe in a religion to believe in the after life. Having a religion means to believe in a god or set of gods, believing in an afterlife separate from that is completely possible.
I'm sorry but believing in the afterlife _is_ a religion because it's not based on any scientific foundation. For all we know and have evidence for, once you're dead your consciousness dies with you and that's just it. You're gone and there's no satisfaction to be had from observing all those assholes feeling bad about it because your whole being is simply no longer in existence in any way, shape or form. My point is that most of these edgy hipster teens try to pass themselves off as those ultrarational types that are simply above all the superstitious stuff of the common simpletons. All the while believing in the afterlife is precisely a superstition, and so is reincarnation for that matter. I'm not saying either of these things isn't true but I am saying that we have no proof it is. But even assuming there really is an afterlife to be had, what makes these people so sure they would actually even be able to look into the lives of those they would leave behind? What if the afterlife is just some kind of prison without windows? Although if I had to venture a guess, I would say that once we enter the afterlife, our way of thinking would be profoundly changed. Maybe we won't even remember our time on earth. I mean yeah, there's no way to be sure but I personally like the stories dealing with dead people who simply forget their own names after just a couple of decades of being dead. it just seems believable to me. The only two viable options for me are: - there is no afterlife and we simply get erased from existence, even though it's utterly incomprehensible to imagine; - there is an afterlife but we either don't remember or care about our earth life in it. Because I'm sorry but the idea of someone finding the Heavenly chamber of that one bully from high school and then spending years upon years ranting to him about how he ruined their life seems kind of... preposterous to me. I just don't like hypocrisy, that's all. ...Damn, I always feel terrible bringing up this topic. To be honest, I'm not even sure which of these options I would prefer to be true: actually stopping existing at one point which I can't even phathom or entering an afterlife that would go on for an eternity, with no goal to be had. I remember once when I was first thinking about it as a kid, it actually made me cry the more I dug into it. What a scary thought...
yarpen26 Exactly what I was thinking. Not to say that if you look at the animal world(we too often forget what we really are) "injustice" is all around and none of the animals that died, die and will die in ways we'd deem "injust" or not "morally acceptable" will ever have any revenge for that, no one will ever remember them. It truly seems like life doesn't have any value in this universe, if you look at how frequent death happens and at how all life forms need the death of others to survive. It'd be lame and completely useless to just cease completely to exist when you die, I still think that there must be something that motivates all of this, maybe our brains are just not developed enough to get it. Maybe death is like a whormhole to another dimension where we may exist in a different form, maybe life and death are just part of a circle that goes on and on and we'll be reborn in another form of life when death occurs without any kind of memories from our past life or maybe we have no value for the universe we live in, and death is just a state of nothingness for our minds, while our bodies will fuel the next generations of useless life forms, who knows. Anyway, It's funny to see these edgy hipsters that think they're so rational and logic( and OMG SCIENCEE11!11!) being unable to understand that the "afterlife" they feel so proud to believe in is extremely similar to the christian and jewish one lol
I was actually raped and did try to commit suicide in high school so I can personally say this show is very harmful to people at risk.I watched it when it first came out hoping to find something I guess, maybe something to share to help others understand or help myself understand a little more since they claimed it was about awareness and such. It actually brought me back and made me feel hopeless about the rape and about life in general just like I felt back then. It's a very irresponsible show and I wish that it never existed. I fought with myself for at least a month to drag myself back up out of the bad place it dragged me back to. I think the people it speaks deepest to are the victims, at risk and survivors which are playing with fire. It's just a show but I know it's taking an unfair toll.
I can not agree more with this statement. I too had dealt with sexual assault and attemptdc to commit suicide while I was in high school. This show made me feel so sick in so many ways, and it took me to a shitty and dark place, but my addiction to dark things like this show and curiosity as a whole made it hard to stop watching it, even though I know I should have. I suppose I kept hoping to find something good from it. In the end it was just overly intense and the only good thing that I can gain from this experience is that it finally made me decide to start talking to someone about taking anti-depressants, if you can consider that a good thing at all seeing how that only meant it pushed my depression to a terrifying place all the more.
Yes, why not show the reality? You can get better, you can get help. Why replace a hopeful reality with a dark illusion? An illusion that can influence people? I don't get it.
As a writer and as someone who has been raped and attempted suicide as well, I feel like there are so many better way to convey how horrific trauma is without being over the top graphic. You can talk about issues like suicide and sexual assault, but there are ways to do it so that in case someone is watching/reading it looking for an accurate depiction of their lives, they aren't contemplating suicide by the end of it. I get so sick of people saying how it's good because its "realistic". That rape scene at the end made me physically ill and no, that's not a good thing.
That is so awful, and I'm so sorry you had to go through all of that. I hope your current life is much better, and that you've found happiness. I give out all my support.
I couldn't watch 13RW (I started but had to stop) because of how they treated suicide, making it so Hannah blaims other people, and kinda glorifying suicide, I've heard the book is worse but I'm not putting myself through that to confirm it.
the book is worse. that scene when she goes talk to the professor for the last time goes something like this: HB: Im fine P: if something is wrong you should tell me, maybe i can help HB: no im fine P:are you sure? i want to help HB: no really im fine P:okay well im here if you need me HB after she leaves: he never tried to help me! welcome to your tape.
@@samf5988 Really? Wao. That's dumb I wanna talk with the Hannah of the book. Oh no forget it. I wanna talk with the AUTHOR of the book. I have soooo Many questions.
@@samf5988 Really it was worse than that. She tells him she was raped and then refuses to give him any information unless he promises the guy who did it will go to prison (which she knows he can't do). And the fact that she already had the tape recording in her bag when she went to his offices shows that's exactly how she had it planned, probably because she needed at least one adult in the tapes for credibility.
Also let's not forget how Hannah left out her parents who did everything for her. She didn't even write a fucking note for them. They are the ones left with the biggest questions and in search for answers, all while Hannah made so much effort in the tapes for those high school kids. The show failed in so many ways ...
Anonymous Someone The parents had no way to know. It’s not their fault. In an ideal world it would be, but it’s not. She was sad, lots of people are. They could never have known the severity of it.
I think Bryce is one of the worst characters in all of fiction not because he's supposed to be hated but because there is no explanation for why he does what he does
Now THIS is more like it. I watched this having not seen 13RW, and you brought me up to speed with what it is and your thoughts on it in such a condensed way that I just HAD to watch more. GOOD BOY! I do love how I deliberately avoided this show because of it's setting in an American high school, and I think you criticised the setting as the reason why nothing is developed or explored properly. Brilliant. Only thing I have to criticise is the audio mix. Music volume was a bit too high and had to squint a little at times to hear what you were saying.
When I was 15 my 16 year old brother killed himself. Since then I have had several more friends kill themselves. I couldn't even finish it I was so disgusted. This felt like a show about something someone knew NOTHING about...or worse, thought was "cool".
Netflix baffles me. On one hand they make a show like Bojack Horseman, which portrays depression and the downward spiral of self-loathing and self-sabotage that comes with it in a gut-punchingly realistic way. But on the other hand they make a show like 13 Reasons Why that reduces the same topic to a shallow teenage pity party. They’ve shown that they’re capable of portraying it realistically and respectfully, so why did they fuck it up in the show that’s literally about suicide??
Also consider that it was originally a book, and the author of that book was the uncle of the girl the story is based on. Once the book got big enough, he then sold the rights of it to tv show producers. The author is directly profiting off of his neice's suicide.
From what I've heard, the book depicted Hannah as an actual likable character though. The author couldn't have known what the show-runners were going to do with the character/ story. He probably just wanted to get his niece's story out there and spread awareness. I don't think humanity is so deplorable that he would think "oh wow, my niece died... how can I make money from that?" But I don't know any details because I haven't read the book or watched the show.
@@elderly_gentleman9489 i have to agree I think he just wanted his niece's story out there. He probably sold the story to tv makers because he thought it would help spread awareness
Depression isn't thinking you will be better off without the world, it's thinking the world will be better off without you because all you are is just a burden.
Elijah Hollis In the show Hannah literally said that maybe she was the problem. You just showed everyone that you didn't watch the show and form an opinion of your own, you just watched this video
I disagree on this crucial point: school counselors will not always help you. In my school, my counselors just checked off the "are you depressed?" "Are you self harming?" etc..boxes on their questionnaire and let it go. I was brought into the office because a friend had told them they were concerned about me self-harming because I had told someone that I was hurting myself - which I was. When I got called to the office, they told me my friend was worried about me and she was sitting right there. In that moment I felt like I had to convince them that I was normal and ok because they told me my friend was worried about me. I didn't want her to worry, so I started hiding it. Point is, school counselors don't always help. I set off so many red flags: scars on my wrists, alienating myself from people, so many things - and I didn't have the coping skills. I never got called back to speak with any of the counselors, no matter how many times I would cry in class or pull away or all of those things. Maybe some people have had great experiences with school counselors - but it is not always the case.
I agree. But still: If you portray it in the show like reaching out to a counselor isnt worth it anyway - you will have less people go there if they feel like needing help. If you portray it the other way round, more people will go to the counselors... And even tho some of them might not be able to help, alot of them will. I think making mentally unstable people go to the counselors does more good than harm. But my school counselor sucked as well: instead of noticing my deep depression because I was bullied by the whole school, she tried to "help" me do my homework by making plans and stuff - yeah clearly thats the issue, thats what I need *facepalm
Same here, my school counselor was so easy to lie to. And the advice he gave me sucked. To understand how, let me tell you some background. Note: this happned 2 years ago. I was developing a eating disorder and was really depressed at the time. I hurt myself, thought i was unworthy to eat food. So a teacher got me to see the school counselor, which at the time was glad. But when I got to talk to him, I regreted it right away. He told me to just think happy thoughts and to block out bad thoughts, it gotten so annoying to hear that all the time that I just started to lie to him. I told him I was getting better and he seemed please and stop telling me to think happy thoughts. Im glad I had a good friend who helped me by making me eat and telling me that I was important and needed in the world, even though she knew I didnt believe it at the time. My school also had these people that help students, idk what they were call but they don't help at all. I actually hated them because I was having a mental breakdown and was trying to make myself throw up and told then I NEEDED my friend. They said no and I was just sick. This went on for about until there was only 10 minutes of class left. I left the room to hurt myself but as I went to go back, i saw my friend and she freak out and was worried. I told her what happened and she right away went to help me. Oh yeah, the next day, that teacher who just said I was sick asked me "You were sick right?" I told her yes with such a fake smile and I can see how angry my friend was. Sooo adults can really be able to do nothing but cause more harm them good. P.s. my mom yelled at me when she found out I was depressed and hurtibg myself.
Its horrible how this show almost encourages suicide, like you said, as a weapon, and it’s terrible to think of how many depressed people believed they were alone like how the show portrayed Hannah. How many people did this show kill? You showed the articles about the Copycat suicides, but how many people with depression didn’t bother trying to copy the tapes gimmick but did kill them selves or try to kill themselves? The fact that this show got a second season makes me so angry.
Tootsie Wooty there’s a big difference between the message and the medium, especially in the case of mental health, think about it like this: an FPS like Doom won’t make you shoot up a school but an FPS that makes shooting up a school look like a good thing could push someone over the edge. And that hasn’t happened yet because They haven’t made an FPS that portrays school shooting like a good thing, but this series does portray suicide as a weapon, which could push someone to do it because Suicide is extremely different from something like shooting up a school.
I've been falling in love with essays like this. The review was buttered nicely, not too thick or thin. The attention to detail is creamy, it melts review and carries the viewers interest well. More playful than a take down but funny enough to hold captivation. My favorite part was the papa roach soundbite. Editing like that hits me like a jab and gets me to laugh in public. Great video man!
I put 13 Reasons Why and Twilight in the same category of literature/media that gives the wrong ideas to impressionable young people (especially teenage girls). It glorifies helplessness and self-destructive behaviour, plain and simple.
There's nothing inherently wrong with using Netflix to try and tell people to get help with their depression or to tell stories about certain things like toxicity (BoJack Horseman), growing up (Big Mouth and whatever else needs to be discussed with younger people. It's just that 13 Reasons did it so poorly, it risks hurting a lot of people.
As someone who has suffered under depression and suicidal thoughts, this show was absolutely vile and disrespectfull. I felt physically sick by the "suicide glorification" and the obscure message that it was everyone else's fault she killed herself, and her horrible quest to make stupid tape clues and make people feel responsible for the rest of their lives. No. Suicide a choice you make, and yes it can feel like there is no other choice. And yes, people's actions can push you in that direction. But this horrible Hannah person who is in no way likable has made it all about revenge and "haha, look what you did, now live with that!". That's not how depression works. Depression and suicidal thoughts are about thinking you are worthless and the world will be better without you, not some sick revenge feitsh or attention-stunt. Ugh.
suicide is different for every person, two types ive seen in people are the one you described which comes from feelings of insecurity and worthlessness and the other type is the "people are disgusting, they deserve to feel bad for what they did to me" anger type that Hannah baker appears to have, although the writers of the show clearly don't know the difference between the types
Kyldrian Studios if you watched he video he says one of his biggest gripes with the show is that it gives the wrong impression of what happens with suicide and romanticizing it, no one with suicidal ideation should watch this show.
Ex Tense manifestations of major depression are different for age brackets. Adults typically have the characteristic extreme sadness, lack of energy, disinterest. Depression in teens that aren’t as emotionally developed usually manifests as anger. They could’ve really explored this and educated people but nope.
It's all because Selena Gomez worked on it. That's the only reason I heard it being praised. "No wonder it's good, Selena Gomez directed it" -which also isn't true because she was a producer but was gone 90 days of filming due to health problems.
Omega Reviews ironically I was always hearing about how helpful it was at exposing issues of suicide, which I ignored after learning she recorded her suicide notes on a Walkman in such a glorifying way
This show is essentially what a depressed lonely 13 year old believes and imagines everything feels like. It will only serve to inspire a wave of young boys & girls with suicidal ideation. It feeds directly into their innocent lack of knowledge, experience and maturity. Self hatred is very common in teens, all this show does is tell them everything they fear and romanticize about their loneliness is true.
I want so say right off the bat that I don't say these things in an effort to silence you. If you have good reasons you think what you said was true, it would only benefit me to listen to them. I could learn more, and be able to help more people. That being said, you claim I have no idea how suicide works.... On the contrary, my brother and I have both been diagnosed with depression and dealt with suicidal thoughts for years before we were able to pursue treatment. I talk to dozens upon dozens of teens and young adults about depression and its influences. I try to guide them to get help, and I have a lot of experience with these issues. In a nutshell, I was that depressed lonely 13 year old. Victimization and the romanticizing of depression or the tragic nature of feeling so alone, is a deeply complicated and troubling thing. 13 Reasons Why handles it in a horrific way. There's a reason many schools warned all of their teachers and counselors to watch this show and be mindful of how it may affect their students. There's a reason suicide risk skyrockets up to 65% in the friends and family of victims. There's a reason that google searches about how to commit suicide rose 19% (900,000-1.5 million) after this show aired. Empathy is a powerful force and it doesn't always play nice with negative or more toxic emotions. Especially not with at risk teens steeped in self hatred, loneliness and depression. If you have thoughts on why any of this may not be the case, I am genuinely very interested.
Sweeps That’s not what I got from this show. I got that if you are feeling suicidal, you should do it, so that you can destroy anyone that you dislike emotionally and legally and it’ll be their fault. Suicide is about revenge. This doesn’t feed into actual depression or actual self-hatred (I should know, I was just recovering from a suicidal mindset when this show first came out), it makes suicide into a weapon. One that is depressed will only harm or kill themselves, because they cannot escape their own pain, but this is more like the actions of a Psychopath or a Sociopath, whom will willingly inflict harm into others in order to manipulate them. Hannah is not depressed, she’s Sociopathic and deserves no sympathy for her actions.
I believe everything you gathered from the show is entirely understandable. They did indeed portray it that way. It's romanticized or glorified in that way that would be alluring to a sociopath, the exact same way massive media coverage of shootings inspires copycats. They talk about them constantly by name, their image is shown before the world, everyone knows who they are and what they did. The news outlets even have a veritable scoreboard for a victim count. That type of treatment of a horrific tragedy is unbelievably awful. Multiple shooters have left materials or statements about how that is exactly what they want. Exactly what excites them, what they yearn for with their actions. In 13 Reason Why, it's not entirely the same, but it is extremely similar. The show does everything you said and more through its portrayal of Hannah. I agree with your assessment, up until the very end. Sympathy as it relates to fault, is a complicated thing. While everything Hannah did was her fault and her choice, I think the biggest failing of the show is that it made her so unreasonable and gave her no realistic path to help. I want the message from all of this conversation to be that you can get help. There's always a way out and a way to be healthier and happier. All that being said, your criticism of her and the show is extremely valid.
Sweeps There’s always a way out, but you don’t always need others to get out of a Depression (though Hannah never really was in one). You can always find a way around whatever is making you suicidal, and there are resources in schools, online, and even apps for emotional venting. Hannah however, is not Depressed or Suicidal. One that is both will show lots of self-hate and blame themselves for things that affect them, even if they’re out of their control. On top of this, one would also constantly think about why they hate themselves and their actions, and plan their suicide over the span of months. Hannah does none of this, and is very cold and blaming in her tapes that she made to blame her scapegoats, because they didn’t play exactly as she wanted them to. I’d say that she falls under a manipulative Sociopath sooner than I’d say that she’s Depressed. I mean, I can’t imagine saying the equivalence of “Have sex with me, or I’ll kill myself.” coming from anyone other than a Sociopath.
Sausage Mahoney I was just saying this was a well made video... it’s a small TH-camr who has made quality content and I am showing my support. Chill the fuck out lmao
Haha I started watching it out of curiosity and I thought that I was in a better headspace. But NO I just spiraled back into my self harm tendancies. I'm better now but this show does not help
I tried watching the show when the first season came out, and I basically gave up on the show halfway through. Just watching an awful show that glorifies suicide is just sickening. I had dealt with suicidal thought before, but luckily I didn’t hurt myself. I had gotten out that dark period of my life with the help of my family, my friends, and the help of God.the overall message of the film is just insulting and very nihilistic. Sure I have meet people of people who didn’t help me when I needed the most, but this show and the overall book just doesn’t understand how people interact. This Jay guy need to reflect on what he has written.
To me, her suicide would've made more sense if it was an overdose. Her parents owned a pharmacy; that's a less specific, and less gory scene. The show felt like a typical teenage movie and didn't raise the right awareness in my opinion.
Yeah, she actually did overdose in the book. Now... Why would the show creators change the method from that into something so much more gruesome? To make it more dramatic/intense, which is kind of disgusting to me. Imagine being like, "I don't think overdosing is dramatic enough... What if instead, she slits her wrists on camera? Yeah... That'll raise more awareness!"
in the book they had overdose, but they added a more gory scene because (according to the beyond 13RW) the author said they wanted her to kill herself in a gruesome way to show that suicide isn't supposed to be an easy way out
This show is an insult to people with mental health problems especially teenagers who deserve better than this. I've yet to see a serious look into the teenage mind and how things like depression, rape and suicidal thoughts effect them.
When I was 13 I went through some very dark shit with severe suicidal thoughts. I was very socially isolated and bullied at the time. I was also, regardless of circumstances, still a very dramatic young teenage girl... and I can guarantee you, if I had watched this show then, it would have put some very harmful ideas in my head. I would have felt like my suicide would have been some kind of social vindication. It would have amplified my conviction so much. What got me through it at the time was knowing that my death would destroy my parents and the only thing I could think of worse than living was there being an afterlife and having to watch them suffer for the rest of their lives.
The thing about hannah is that she doesn’t sound depressed...she sounds like she always has power. She talks back to people etc. And even makes a fucking revenge plot. That’s doesn’t like a horrible sad girl to me
The problem they had with Hannah (well one of them, but a big one narrative if not anything else) is that shows with a female protagonist, especially ones aimed for young people are almost duty bound to portray the female leads as "strong independent women" or risk backlash. And while that is usually not a bad thing, in this case they would have served the story and even their attempt to help people by portraying Hannah as someone who felt more helpless, was not the kind of confront or directly deal with things, and was a afraid of confrontation and possibly a bit introverted or socially inept. Which would have made her reacting to a lot of these issues make more sense. But they had to make her a "role model of female empowerment" while also trying to make her seem helpless and alone which at the very least takes better writing then what this show had, but truthfully was not the best choice given the character. At the very least a girl in her situation would be someone who appeared strong but it was all a front, but Hannah was strong and in control and able to handle anything... until the plot called for her not to then she randomly wasn't for that instance before reverting to the ballsy outgoing Hannah the rest of the time. It was honestly bad writing.
DanTheMan that's a really good point. By portraying Hannah as a strong independent woman it could also give the message that if you feel depressed then you should I'll yourself to stay in control and be the strong person. Not really the best message to send to at risk people.
Yeah I agree. It's just so shitty that we can't separate gender and emotions in shows and films like this. Females don't need to be overemotional, we're not all like that. Guys don't need to be emotionally passive. They're not all like that either. This storyline would've been much healthier and receptive to audiences if the writers and actors just created these characters authentically instead of trying desperately to keep them in their respective social boxes. Depression doesn't have a label, and chronicling the suicide of a bratty girl who is out of touch with the fact that the world doesn't revolve around her doesn't raise awareness. It makes people feel like shit about being depressed because much like the show depicts, people like to think that being depressed is just being overdramatic about life's normal ups and downs. (With the exception of rape, since it doesn't happen to everyone). On top of that listening to the professionals about how to depict depression and suicide would have been a nice touch. Honestly just overall I can't stand this show. It's abrasive to the fight against stigmatization, and inconsiderate to suicide survivors. F in my book every time.
It was her decision to take her life in the end. She always had a choice. Can't blame anybody else for what she did. Yeh they definitely influenced her but not knowing that she would kill herself. Some people have even gone thru worse but havnt killed themselves yet because everybody responds differently to different situations.
I saw all the good ratings this show was getting and decided to go watch it then I realized halfway through the 2nd episode that the ratings were probably coming from teens that thought covering topics like depression = a good show. With all the good ratings it was getting I was expecting a really solid and well written story line with excellent acting and I literally got zero of that.
You know what’s really fucking fuckitty FUCKED? Here in Norway the translation is “13 good reasons”. Yeah. YEAH. WHO THE FUCK THOUGHT THAT WAS A GOOD IDEA WTF I will never watch that show. And god damn it they are making another season.
By weaponizing her suicide, turning it into a revenge plot, they took Hannah from a character we were supposed to relate to and understand, a girl who felt she had no other options who was spiraling downward, and framed her as a borderline narcissist who decided that she would use her death in order to exact revenge on those who wronged her, making them her permanent victims by branding them with her suicide. It was eerily similar to an episode of SVU where a powerful and successful exec kills herself at a press conference she called on national tv, but not before blaming all of her employees for her suicide- all because she was exposed for being verbally and physically abusive and as a result her business and reputation took a spiral.
Actually it is later revealed that Zack never threw away the note, he kept it, which is why I don’t know if I believe Hannah because if she lied about that, how do we know she isn’t just fibbing and exaggerating the whole story.
IRENE IS MY BAE yea and there were situations where she places herself as the victim even though she isn't. But I can't blame her, though. After all she's been through her mind is always going to be on edge and be alarmed by simple things.
Chesca Stypayhorlikson yea but it's like yes most of the people in the tapes are at fault but she exaggerates to a point here she makes it look and sound like it's EVERYONES fault
I watched this show with some friends as a "so bad it's fun to watch" kind of thing. But Hannah is unlikable, the characters act totally illogical and above all else the show is just so tasteless and stupid. 2/10 on a good day
flaundre .scarlet Same. I had just began recovering right when this show came out. I had no sympathy for Hannah and for not other characters. It just infuriated me that such an offensively fake and simplified story could become popular. I hate this show with a passion!
We coincidentally read the book in class around the time this show came out and the book is a lot better in many of the points you criticized though I still wouldn’t call it a good portrayal of suicide. In the book, Clay really barely knew Hannah. They worked together at the cinema and kissed at the party after which Hannah panicked and rejected him which implies that them getting together might not have helped at all. Hannah put him on the tapes not to guilt trip him, but to apologize. The only thing he could be faulted for was not realizing the suicidal signs Hannah was exhibiting, but then again neither did anyone else. The target audience aren’t suicidal people who need consolation, it was written to open the eyes of those who might be able and willing to help those suicidal people if they only noticed the signs and had the courage to talk to them, that’s why the book ends with Clay talking to a girl who might have similar problems. So considering this, the book actually ends on a hopeful note. Not saying this was the perfect way to execute it, but I can follow that logic. Aside from the Peeping Tom incident, there never were any naughty photos taken of her and even the ones that were were never spread around school. The rumors were just typical high school rumors that went too far and attracted negative attention which I can buy. This kind of stuff happens more often than it should although it usually doesn’t lead to suicide. The people on the tapes were also nowhere near that bad in the book. Courtney and Justin who are flat out villains in the show weren’t terrible people either, they were just normal students who made mistakes that could have been prevented if they kept their big mouths shut or in the second Justin case, opened it at the right time and Hannah even admits that she made the same mistake in that situation. In fact, I‘m pretty sure that in the book Courtney wasn’t even aware of the way she treated Hannah, she genuinely thought she was doing something nice when she used Hannah as a ride to the party. She wasn’t some manipulative closet lesbian, she just had her head far up her own ass. Which is a much more realistic type of personality by the way. Bryce is the only one who really was a sociopathic asshole and abused girls because it turned him on. However, he never actually raped Hannah at the pool, he made the moves on her and she didn’t reject him because she was using him to let go of herself. And finally, the suicide itself was nowhere near as dramatic as in the show. No slit wrists with blood everywhere in the bathtub, she was simply confirmed to have taken pills which again, is a more realistic and less glorifying way for people kill themselves. I think the book is a lot more tactful in dealing with this issue although I don’t even consider it to be all that great. The fact that the show is going for a second season despite there being no source material left shows what they’re really going for.
Slitting writs is nothing glorifying, in fact it was a horrifying and powerful scene. Made me realize I'd never slit my writs if i wanted to commit suicide.
I agree with all of this. The glamourizing of suicide in mainstream media has always upset me. My friend committed suicide in high school and if she saw this unpoetic, overly stylized bullshit she'd roll over in her grave. Good intention, horrible execution. Thank you for pointing all of this out! And thank you for having the balls to say what so many other want to say.
Girl: “Hannah, very cute outfit! Looks nice on you!” Hannah: “By telling me you loved my outfit in front of those 2 guys...I’ve never felt more sexualized or violated....The looked at my jacket...*shivers* Welcome to your tape”
You know what hurts me the most? That the writers don't care about how it can affect people with suicidal thoughts, it's like that they have never experienced any struggles relating to depression, anxiety or suicidal thoughts. The warnings will help but the fact that it needs warnings to explain to get help and suicide is bad shows how badly it is written. I knew from the beginning I would hate this show, mainly due to people watching it, justifying suicide and then copying or just doing it.
Or maybe different people react to it differently. I've had suicidal thoughts almost my entire life (40+ years), and not once did I think this show glorified or justified suicide in any way.
ok what pissed me off the most was that the novel was actually amazing and helped me get through a really hard point in my life. i was so excited when i heard they were turning it into a show. but the thing is? they didnt look into the extensive amount of research the author went through. the way he wrote the book, it wasnt a story about revenge, it was a story about a girl who was mad at the world. she was mad for reasonable reasons, but it the whole point is that she ended up hurting people who didnt understand what she was going through. it helped put in the perspective of a person on the outside, someone who can see all the options she could've taken. it pointed out when she could've gotten help and the main character goes through a lot of self reflection, trying to put himself in her shoes. it was a perspective i personally needed to hear. but then in this shitty ass show they just boiled it down to the drama and the plot falls flat. instead of showing the complex struggles of a guy who didnt really know her all too well, but somehow ended up on this list of people who she considered her "reasons", it became a show about the relationship they had??? and the order of the tapes were fuking changed too like his was in the middle but nO its more dramatic for his to be the end bc thats what the show is about. its about glorifying the fact that she was helpless whEN THE GODDAMN POINT OF THE BOOK WAS THAT SHE FUCKING WASNT AND SHE FAILED TO SEE THE PEOPLE TRYING TO HELP HER. IT POINTS OUT TO PEOPLE WHO FEEL LIKE SHE DID THAT THERE ARE PEOPLE AROUND YOU WILLING TO LISTEN AND THAT THERE ARE REALLY NO GOOD "REASONS" BECAUSE EVEN IF YOU HAVE A STORY AS SHITTY AS HERS YOU CAN GET PAST IT AND ITS NOT WORTH YOUR LIFE UGH IDK IM SO FRUSTRATED BY HOW WATERED THE FUCKING TV SHOW IS. maybe i only saw it this way bc i went to the authors tour in highschool and he explained who the book was based on but idk i just hate seeing such an important message being turned into a ~highschool drama revenge~ story
Boerger plays oh! im pretty sure its a screenshot from the anime but i could be wrong? i cant find the original image. but i used photoshop to put it over the floral background!
The music throughout this video is great, some of the time I wasn't even focusing on the video itself but on the music, Gorrilaz, lofi, synthwave(?) it's all very charming and fits the theme of the video and the topics you talk about.
Yes. It sadly did. The comedy about puberty did a better a job at portraying depression than a show that it based on the fact that someone killed themselves
Dear Nitpick, I normally never comment on videos unless it really drives me to. I stumbled across this video as it was in my reccomend section and gave it a watch. I like hearing everyone's opinions on different arrays of shows I watch and you, sir, won my sub for actually saying something that I've been trying to explain to my friends since I watched it. I'll show this to them. You are a godsend and I can't wait to watch more! Love, Your new fan ♡
Bojack Horseman is such a good show. It’s complex with the themes of depression, self worth, nihilism, identify, and much more complements the well written characters.
If you're interested in a very good movie on suicide, there's an anime I really love called A Silent Voice, which is a very good portrayal of these issues.
I've read the book as it was a school project. Felt disgusted. Glad to know the series stayed true to the original. The amount of unhealthy content and the glorification of her suicide that she tries so hard to justify made me throw up on every other page. This shitshow wouldn't matter, UNLESS it's so toxic that little impressionable kids might actually want to give it a try. Agree 100% with the video. You took the words out of my mouth. I am for creative freedom, but that also means that a toxic garbage like this needs to be properly critiqued.
F*** this show. If I had viewed it 10 years ago as a 14 year old lonely awkward teenager who was terrible with girls, romanticized the idea of how high school would be and therefore was disappointed with its outcome, along with my issues wth self confidence and understanding my place in this world, I fear I may have done something harmful to myself. Sure depression still comes and goes, but I know that I have people that love me, a lot of the problems in my life can be solved quickly and my mind makes up a lot of them. I. Am. Blessed. I now just take every day one day at a time and I try to make note of all the times my life is given a gift. But I know that now as a fully grown adult. I know that after having life experience and after having clawed my way out of some dark times. This show is dangerous. I genuinely feel bad for those children who feel so alone in this world that they feel that this show is a source of inspiration. Middle and highschool was and is a nightmare for quite a number of kids out there and they don't need shows like these to make things worse.
TheAntagonist What you blame everyone else for how you feel? You are suicidal out of spite? Thats bullahit and we both know it. Either you arent actually suicidal or you are just bullshitting.
Well for one, Hannah doesn't blame for her death, she's blaming them for encouraging the onset of her depression. They all pushed her to a dark place she could no longer handle, namely because she was assaulted, humiliated, and felt she'd been abandoned. She wanted them to know how they'd hurt her, and they weren't the only ones. If you pay attention, there are MANY more names on the papers she'd planned it out on, indicating that these were only the MAIN events, not the ONLY events that pushed her over the edge. Also, this sort of "you're not really suicidal" is part of why Hannah had such a hard time telling people - lots of people don't understand exactly what the symptoms of depression and warning signs of a potential suicide. And on the last note, yes, I am mentally ill. And you can't tell me I'm bullshitting that, since I've had the cops called on me to stop a suicide attempt, I was sent to an in patient program for evaluation twice, and I still have to take two anti-d's a day just to keep me out of bed. I was emotionally abused by my mother starting back in grade school, and when I was finally diagnosed my doc went over symptoms I hadn't even known were a part of depression. Hannah may not have even KNOWN she was really depressed, just thinking she was deeply hurt. TL;DR, There's a difference between blaming someone for your death vs saying they contributed to worsening your depression. That's like being stabbed, and the stabber leaves the knife, but another person comes along and twists it. Person 2 CLEARLY made things worse, and you can't deny that they hurt you.
He sarcastically said that because that's how the show portrays it. According to the show before the rape it acts like if Hannah asks Clay out it'll magically solve all her problems. It won't and didn't.
I hate when movies that revolve around depression and suicide try to say the solution is to fall in love with a "nice guy." Life doesn't work like that. I struggle with anxiety, depression, and suicidal thoughts. Plot twist, dating a "nice guy" doesn't change anything. You have to work on yourself and you decide your actions not others. I hated that the book used suicide as a weapon because if you do commit suicide, how would that change someone who doesn't like you? Getting help is so important and speaking out to people definitely does help. Therapist are more accessible and can even talk to someone through text.
As someone with clinical depression, I have to say this is absolutely true. My insecurities, doubts and negative thoughts really harden my relationship. And don't make me count the times I've considered suicide when a problem arouse because I couldn't stand the thought of not being with him anymore. It's a serious, critical condition that requires professional help, especially when you're codependent. It doesn't solve anything, it just creates more vicious circles.
I totally agree with you. Due to my depression when I was a teenager I didn't get the time to develop my own personality. I just followed people around trying to do what they wanted me to do bc I was afraid to lose them and was afraid to deal with conflicts, blah, blah, blah. So HOW the hell could I have a boyfriend when I didn't even know myself? When I couldn't talk back or make my own decisions?
What I needed were real friends who encourage me to do things, to speak for myself, to try new things! Not some douchbag who kisses my scars and says how beautiful they are!
@@SimonWoodburyForget actually therapists help your depression by changing the way you see life and thinking in a more positive way they are not there to make things worse for you they are there to help you. But you have to be able to push yourself and be able to do the positive things the therapist tells you to do especially if you're insecure about yourself or feel bad about yourself they are there help you become confident in your own skin but you have to want to help yourself as well and change your way of thinking about certain things.
@@SimonWoodburyForget As a person who has depression and who have went to therapy for these types of issues it has helped me and sometimes you have to find a therapist that fits you, for example, I had to go through a lot of therapists before I could find one that wanted to help us understood me she would give me therapy homework and things I could say to myself at home because I really wanted to change my way of thinking about things even though my depression is not gone completely I've learned not to listen to those negative thoughts and therapy has helped me also understand what is really going on with me majority of the time plus there are different types of therapy you can go into. I understand therapy may not work for everybody but depression can cause a chemical imbalance and sometimes its good to see a psychiatrist and a therapist at the same time again I'm not saying therapy isn't for everyone but if you can afford it go to it and say positive affirmations in the mirror if that helps but I'm just giving a little bit of advice I hope you get better! and be able to combat your depression or anxiety if you have it! And what do you want exactly? Do you want to get better and help your depression so it does not affect you as much? And normal? I wouldn't say that I would say that there not trying to get you to be normal there trying to help you get better so in the future not sure how old you are you can be happy and enjoy life more without all these negative thoughts or anxiety
Well said.
When psychological professionals warned them not to the broom scene and told them not to represent mental health this way and they did it anyway
Yay another homestuck!
So...if you really don't like it why do you watch it?
The broom scene was disgusting. could've gone without it.
Eriotl Ampora
Yeah, this sounds dead-on like something a poorly-done Netflix original series would do, sadly
I too recognize your name and picture
the most depressing part about that scene is how Tyler got help, demenstrated that he knew how to use his new copping mechanisms but in the end instead of seeking help from professionals, like i assumed he would, he was talked down by the kid who distributed his nudes.
Everyone the writers listened to: "don't glorify suicide, don't show the suicide, dont-"
The writers: "I'm gonna pretend I didn't see that"
Sick Raccoons Foundation this sign can’t stop me because I can’t read!
@@ioanaionascu4318 this comment wins the internet
Instead of writers, Shakespeare would work as well
Well,they can show the suicide, just don't depict it in a way that romanticizes
It also seems pretty funny to blame someone’s suicide on a show.. but ya know. Apparently if your suicidal you should be very careful about seeing suicide in a show because you’ll decide at that point to kill yourself.
I've never seen the entire show, but I skipped specifically to watch the suicide scene because I wanted to see how bad it was. She looked so peaceful the entire time, when they showed her dead she looked like she was comfortable and sleeping. I haven't been able to get the image out of my head since, I have low moments and I always remember how fast and easy the scene was. I can't imagine what that would do to someone legitimately suicidal
See, that’s exactly why I don’t watch the show. I may not be depressed, but I have had suicidal thoughts and the last thing I want is a relapse.
I suffer with depression, anxiety, and have had suicidal thoughts and watching that scene was incredibly painful and disturbing to me. I've never attempted anything even close to self harm or otherwise, but I can imagine that scene is probably 10 times worse to the people that do. :(
@12 34 wtf, that person is being sensible. I dare you to drive blindfolded on a highway. If you refuse to do this you’re a pussy.
I’m late, but I came to watch this video to feel my rage at this show instead of aiming it at my friend who adores it.
When I was 12 I had severe suicidal ideation (I’m going to refer to it as SI because I hate even typing it). I had my first attempt and I got sent to a hospital. When I got back, I was doing somewhat better, but then I heard about the suicide scene in 13 reasons why. Yes, I saw the disclaimer, but I watched the suicide scene just so I could see what I could feel like. Let me remind you, I WAS 12 YEARS OLD. I too saw how peaceful she was and how easy it could be. My SI spiked and two weeks later I had another attempt. I vividly remember thinking about that scene the very day.
This is why I hate that fucking show. I’m 14 now and I realize how terrible it is. I literally can’t express enough how much I despise it
@@avocado965 I have a story same like yours, but I was 13 when I tried to suicide, I tried cutting and overdosing, now I'm 14 too and it's just horrible what this show suggests, that dying is something peaceful and makes you free of all your problems and that you have to blame others for your problems. From my perspective, only Bryce deserved to be on that list, and maybe not even he, Hannah knew he was a rapist, and she still went with him in the bathtub. She was selfish to blame those people, for example that boy who liked her and stole her compliment cards, that's not a reason to take away your life. This show should be banned
For me, the best part of the show by a landslide was Hannah's parents' plotline. How the mother is spiraling out of control and the father trying to suppress his emotions because their cheerful, young daughter committed suicide while the parents thought she was okay. Hannah spent so much of her time plotting revenge against more than a dozen people but she couldn't even leave a message for her loving parents.
Maiden Styx yes exactly one of the VERY FEW redeeming qualities in the show that seems with care and realism. It shows the endless and restless fight that a parent would have to find out the truth of their childs random passing. Also it was the mother so thats female power and just shows moms are awesome. UNFORTUNATELY Hannah nwver shiws signs of going into depression or whatever so that just makes its harder to defend.
Xavier Martinez yeah Hannah doesn't really show normal depression but that's because she commits suicide to get revenge at others (stupid idea never do that) while I'm pretty sure most people who are actually depressed are never considering revenge when they do that
nutcracker I watched the first season and hated it. I don't plan on watching the second season but if what you said about Hannah is true my annoyance with her will turn to disgust. Did she really blame her parents for her death as well?!
Throughout all the show all I could think was how much of a selfish asshole Hannah was for putting her parents through this nightmare and essentially ruining their lives. These are the people who love her more than anything, and she destroys them because of conflicts that millions of teenagers go through every day without resorting to suicide. The fact that we have to go through countless minor inconveniences to get to the only really serious thing she faced (the rape) made this show unbearable to watch.
Ngl if I wanted to watch something about good acting from the parents of watch stranger things season 1
I honestly think clay's descent into depression and paranoia was more realistic
Pascal Futter and I think that what Clay goes through is the ACTUAL bullying, not Hanna. The things she faces are terrible ok but that' s not bullying, that' something else, a different kind of abuse.
Pascal Futter I thought Clay’s actions were fake and annoying, how he would always cause a scene in front of everybody would make me cringe so bad.
Ironmantwd4580, the show became Clay's story to me rather than Hannah's. Clay's story, however, is more skillfully told in "The Perks of Being a Wallflower." Clay is mentally ill, struggling with severe anxiety at the very least. The story I saw was "How to Torture Clay in 13 Audio Tapes."
Alex's depression was also handled really well by the writers in my opinion. He was the only depressed character to genuinely despises himself (more so in the second season after his suicide attempt) and that self loathing is what drives him to want to make a difference, whether that be helping Hannah directly, or "helping" the world by killing himself.
and Tyler’s as well!!!!!
I find it so ironic that a close friend of mine loves this show but cut ties with me after I told her about my depression
Guess my depression wasn't quirky enough ...:)
Northychen I hope you're doing better :)
Northychen feelsbadman lul just get a better friend
They weren’t a friend
I hope you’re doing fine. That person is garbage for that. But hey, now you know who your real friends are.
Agreed, the screenplay and character development is very unnatural and poorly written. Its unfortunate these actors were given such empty roles in a show with potentially interesting themes. The most believable character that seemed like they could actually exist in reality was Hannah's friend that got raped. Her confusion, erratic behavior, and motivation for actions can be explained much easier than everyone else, but even that wasn't executed that well.
R y a n C e l s i u s ° S o u n d s This is the worst netflix show imo.
Thanks for saying it's unnatural. I guess people with bpd who relate to her aren't real. Or natural. Nice
A place I didn't expect to find Ryan C.
@@Jkjoannaki She has bpd?
Idontknow WhoIam she never was said to have that in the show you overly obsessed fanboy
I really wish that they made a mistake, and all the cassettes were just Hannah's fire-ass mixtape.
Forgettable Username plot twist Hannah is just on a bomb ass rap tour
The creators had asked mental health professionals whether or not they should air this show, and they told them not to. And yet here it is.
Selena and Netflix will be sued soon. Right after watching the show, a teenage girl committed suicide. She was dealing with depression and binge-watched it. Her parents found out, and her father is suing them. It is a triggering thing, not any help :( I was SO triggered, I had MORE suicidal thoughts after watching it
theres a trigger warning. you cant sue someone for triggering you. everyone get triggered plus you/she knew what kinda show she was watching. she was probably just triggering herself on purpose. netflix did nothing wrong here. you cant cry about every little thing in life cause its triggering you. it just doesnt work like that
Well you should know that when the shw first aired on March 31 there was no trigger warning at the beginning and many other episodes, just on the graphic episodes. So the warning came far to late if you're already that much involved in the series. They started additing more trigger warnings not until the beginning of May.
Nobody is forced to watch this show, especially if they’re struggling with such thoughts, obviously when main character died of suicide, those topics will come up and series will be about that. People need to be less offended nowadays, there are alot of things that trigger us, if it triggers you DONT WATCH IT, this show was made to portray how someone’s life can be affected by every small word or action & how we should get our heads out of our arses and simply care about other people.
Karolina Krupa Some people make it out to be a show that will help people understand suicide and depression. I've been watching reviews like this on it, to see if it's actually good. I saw the death scene, and thought, "Oh, so that's how deep you'd have to cut yourself." And obviously, it's gross to watch as someone who doesn't WANT TO DIE, but it's kind of a how-to guide. Depressed and suicidal people might have watched the show, ignoring trigger warnings, because they heard it might help them see life in a different way. And I agree, people ARE sensitive these days and I hate how being mildly uncomfortable = TRIGGERED. But really, actually being triggered is a serious thing. I respect your opinions, and I hope I may have added to a discussion about this
I know nobody will ever read this, but-
I was suicidal, spend days in the clinic because of that, and my best friend just told me: I think I understand you better now.
I thought maybe he informed himself or something.
No. He watched 13 reasons why. Did not even read it, watched in in like three days and suddenly he told me I remind him of Hannah. This really hurt me. Not all depressed/suicidal people are the same/ have the same personality.
Yeah. When I was 10 I tried drowning myself in my bathroom sink because I knew my favorite dog was about to die. Now, since that dog is dead and I have another, I don't feel the same but might when my new dog becomes the same age as my old dog.
I read your comment and I understand. I am sorry you had to go through this.
Damn. That's incredibly ignorant. I am so, so sorry.
Look people are stupid. They do stupid things, they say stupid stuff and they pretend they know what they're talking about. And in the process they hurt those around them. So your friend is an idiot. Deliberately? Probably not. But an idiot nonetheless. And you are important. There will never be another you. And that's why you need to start loving yourself and ignoring idiots who hurt you. You have to build yourself up so then maybe one day you can help someone else. Love yourself and then you can spread that positivity to others. One step at a time.
What an ignorant guy. I'm sorry you even had to hear him say those words to you, to your face, as if they were full of meaning and somehow made him relate to you. I hope you have other people in your life who can provide you with better support, and if not, you need to educate the hell out of this guy, not just for you but also for him. Because not understanding depression and suicide and all the other mental health issues that are so prominent today in our society is just another way of perpetuating the crisis, through uninformed views and superficial thinking.
Also, I hope you're doing better. Surround yourself with love. In my experience, it starts to rub off on you after a while. If you let it...
13 reasons why message:
“Suicide is badass”
"And all the people you feel drove you to it will get what's coming to them eventually" is apparently the other part of the message.
Suicide Revenge fantasy
Winston Mosquehill bc the writers are all gay
The best reason not to commit it is to see danny devito through to the end
Suicide is badass? Not anymore, and will never be!
Probably the biggest lie in 13RW is how much everyone was concerned with Hannah after she died. Have you ever been in a high school where someone killed themselves? Day one, counselors come into your classes and quickly say "if you need someone to talk to drop by my office anytime" but as for your peers? Other students care for maybe two weeks at the longest. It basically tells people who already feel left out and irrelevant that if they kill themselves then they'll be remembered and everyone will talk about them and people will be sad and regret the way they treated you and it's bull. They don't care.
I agree with you
ThatCrazyFurrball
I disagree with you both.
Lauren Thompson a dozen people care about her suicide because she is practicaly blame them for her death.
Diego Sierra my point is that kids watch it and then kill themselves thinking "oh maybe the bullying will stop and I'll teach them a lesson" when it's not realistic
Agreed, people don't really care at all. When I was in highschool my good friend hung himself during his senior year. That week people began spreading rumors about him... People went as far as to say he was high on drugs and shot himself (he never did drugs)... Even during the memorial service my friends and I (it was about 4 of us) with the help of the principal set up in his memory, mostly everyone were on their phones the entire time...
You're so blunt and honest and yet so inoffensive and well researched and this is everything, damnn son 😍 can't understand why you don't have more subs..
Lord Beesh sorry my lord, doesn't take much, beesh
He only has 7 videos?
adsrotufs Soho 😢
There are NUMEROUS things he got wrong, like the tapes. The tapes weren't thrown in for dramatic effect, the ENTIRE NOVEL/ORIGINAL STORY WAS WRITTEN AROUND THE CONCEPT OF THE TAPES. Jay Asher was inspired by audio museum tours, and he wrote the entire story to fit the tape recordings telling a story and following them around town.
TheAntagonist i'll let him know thx
When a show about a talking horses depicts mental illness better than this show
Honestly, Bojack does a better job with literally *everything* than this show.
There is death in that show that is portrayed so much better and the characters actually have personality woah what a concept
13 Reasons why is just stupid for the most part lol
I think the two shows best portraying depression I know are both animated.
Bojack Horseman and Neon Genesis Evangelion
LMAOOO
For some reason I thought you referred to my little pony
@@LuluTheCorgi little bit aggertsuko
@@joseescobedo7899 lol yep we totally were
When the show first came out, my gym teacher called it “glorifying suicide”
He or she was right on the money. Instead of showing that suicide is this horrible thing that affects the person who killed themselves and everyone around them after their deaths it's portrayed as Hannah's way of getting revenge on people she didn't like from beyond the grave. The tapes go from being about people who were responsible for what happened like Bryce to people who had nothing to do with it.
Everyone says that
@@Xehanort10 but the last episode was so powerful it fixed alot of people thinking about sucide trust me. Also she made those tapes after she was raped of course she was rude
@@brooklynconnell1803 No episode of the show is powerful. And no one who was feeling suicidal stopped feeling like that after watching it.
@@brooklynconnell1803 Yeah but most people couldn't even watch the first season before deciding it was to much and quit, a show is bad if you have to say 'well all of it was trash but the very last episode was kinda good' yeah no.
One of the official warning signs of suicide is knowing someone who has committed suicide, because people have a natural tendency to blame themselves. Like, people could spend YEARS in therapy just to get out of that mindset. Hannah blames everybody else for her suicide, and just tries to get revenge on them with her tape.
Olivia May if Netflix makes another horrible piece of trash like this I’m canceling it
Exactly!
The last thing one thinks about is getting revenge.
On the contrary, you feel extremely guilty due to the internal conflict of not wanting the people you care about to suffer from your death, but really wanting to end it all at the same time.
Hannah was an overreacting bitch. Who killed herself to blame others. Other than the rape there was no solid thing that could and should have resulted in that. Hell even girls in societies where the are shunned by others after rape dont do sucide. That bitch didnt even fought for it and killed herself. I think she deserved it.
Olivia May exactly - as someone who does know it's absolutely fucking horrible that they'd give the representation that they do, and that they made blame such a big part of it.
Olivia May narcissistic personality disorder
"13 reasons why i killed myself and its your fault"
Gamer Max she killed herself to make others feel bad. That's another form of revenge m8.
A-Man Hanging no she didn't she killed herself because she couldn't take life she never wanted revenge in anyway shape or form
Gamer Max She killed herself because she didn’t want to live, but then blames everyone else for it in an attempt to make it seem like it was their faults that she decided to kill herself. Obviously they were partially responsible for her suicide, but that’s not the problem with this show. The problem is that it gives the impression that killing yourself will make the people who hurt you feel bad about themselves. In reality, it won’t. They will forget about it after a week or two, and probably won’t feel like it was even their fault, or that they did something wrong. The only people it will hurt is the people who actually love you.
This show gives an unrealistic representation of suicide, telling real, potentially suicidal teenagers that killing your self will make everyone pay attention to you, and that there is no point in trying to get professional help because they won’t understand your struggles. It’s basically telling depressed teens to avoid potential help and instead kill themselves for revenge. That may not be the intention of the show, but portraying suicide the way they did will only give suicidal teens ideas.
WasabiKitKat It really doesn't when the first season came out I was in a bad place and the show helped me in some aspects and obviously if you can realise that killing yourself won't effect the people who hurt you the same idea will strike in suicidal people. I've talk to many suicidal people and they day that the show helped them and obviously the shows idea perspective is stretched but everything in the show happened to me in a way except the rape and a lot of others to it's a good show it's just people are to scared that it's gonna hurt people but before this show I didn't hear shit about mental illness so this show is very good. Also in the seen where she's raped that's where she mentally can't stand life anymore and if you have depression like a lot of the viewers then you most likely understand what happened to here it was all in her face.
A-Man Hanging so shitty....... nah i can't comepare it to dante's inferno because he died of natural causes
i agree... this show is a passive-aggressive romanticization of using suicide to "get back" at people instead of maybe TALKING TO THEM!
I agree with everything you said except for the talking to them part because it is very hard for people to talk to peopel about these things because they don't think they would understand.
This is where 13 reasons why is the worst show for anyone to watch who wants to find a way through what they're going through. It makes all its charactors, especially adults, unapproachable and unteachable.
What I don't understand about the show is that the creators say it's there to 'raise awareness' and 'start a conversation', and it is rather overly fond of showing unnecessarily 'graphic' scenes to, as they say, show the harsh reality, but it never really delves deep enough into what you can do to help these issues. Yes, Hannah Baker committed suicide due to bullying and it had devastating effects on the people around her, but when did the show ever visit the topic of how she could've been helped? (Like properly helped, not just her visiting a councillor one time or relying on a boy to love her).
I wish there were more scenes there to help people who are genuinely struggling with similar issues, than ones just demonstrating what it's like to have them. I don't think raising awareness should be the main focus, but showing ways to solve these issues might be a better, more effective, way in starting a healthy conversation.
So many people tried to talk and help her, like the school psychiatrist, her parents, Zach and Clay tried mulitble times.
She pushed them all away.
It was not there fault. Even if they tried harder she probably would have done it anyway.
When a show says it's trying to "raise awareness" of something that's just the showrunners trying to pretend the show is about more than ratings and money.
Not only the fact that she just goes the the counselor once, but the fact that she sets him up to fail so she can put him on a tape. She would have had no reason to go into his office with the tape already recording in her bag if she didn't already have that outcome planned.
Great comment!!
She did it to herself 🤦♂️ the show was okay first couple episodes but she was really getting annoying ffs
I think Alex was way more representive of depression /suicide than Hannah.
your awkward tomato indeed
your awkward tomato I know!! Definitely!
Agreed completely but not all depressed and suicidal people are the perfect representations. So in that way I'm sure Hannah represents a certain type.
Well welll WELLLLL
That Smelly Smell That Smells Smelly FOUND MY TWIN
I just realised this isn't a huge channel. I always figured out was because of the quality content.
TH-cam Dweller same
Unfortunately, welcome to TH-cam. You can have quality content, but you'll get nowhere without a frequent upload schedule.
Or a british accent. Not to be racist against those I'm descended from, but there's just a wierd trend of british youtubers getting popular irregardless of their upload schedule.
Don't really care about it honestly, not like I make YT videos anymore anyways. That's not sarcasm btw, I actually don't anymore. xD
WAIT ONLY 14K?!? I WAS EXPECTING HIM TO BE IN THE HUNDRED THOUSANDS
SAME! It’s amazing.
'han solo-' 'youre an actual nerd aren't you' was the worst bull shit line I've ever seen , , , I couldn't believe it had been said to me I felt like I'd been slapped in the face
They could've had him make a nod to Star Trek or D&D or anything more nerdy and less known about than Star Wars and that exchange would've been much better!
TH-cam 4ever
True but nerd in this case can mean two things:
-You are nerd because you just made a pretty bad scifi joke.
-You are a nerd because you follow nerdy stuff like this to the amount you actually make jokes about it.
MetaTeoria Well,I'm a nerd because I love video games and history and making puns with any word that I find and can be clever enough to make a sentence or phrase with it. Ikea is the best with that.
TH-cam 4ever
Well that's a really romantic definition of nerd there...
Good for you though.
Ikr
I've never understood the media's fetish for romanticizing depression. No one enjoys being depressed. Anyone who does enjoy being depressed is someone who REALLY needs help.
I know some will say that it isn't romanticizing it. Even if that were the case, many people with depression, specifically young people (I.E. the show's target demographic) is going to get the wrong idea about depression. The fact that psychologists and doctors have said that this a negative influence on those who suffer with depression really shows how screwed up this show really is.
LifeAt TheShallowEnd You really, really should. Depression can become your personality and that isn’t a good thing. You have to find what medicine works for you and how much your good on, but once you do it can really help get your life under control. There isn’t some miracle drug, it won’t fix all your problems, but it’ll calm that irrational part of you. Like I said, look up side effects and don’t be afraid to speak your mind and stand up for yourself about what your on. I was on medication for awhile and it kinda fucked me up for years. That said I still think it’s better to get help, I was just a child though so I wasn’t educated and just went with the flow.
I agree with the comment above. I don’t have depression (although I have struggled with suicidal thoughts, hence why I hate it when ppl joke about suicide), but a close friend of mine does. I’ve helped him the best I can, but I can only do so much - *he* has to want to get better, so *my* goal is to show him the good things about life. I go to therapy for primarily inattentive ADHD and GAD, and it’s been a huge help; I believe my life would be worst off if I hadn’t gone to therapy.
Just blame the victim
Someone who enjoys being depressed cannot exist. That's an unbelievable paradox
Because it makes money, and sometimes even gets award buzz.
It's not just depression.
I think everyone on the Autism spectrum has had to explain that they are not a math genius to someone, I certainly have. It's an entire multi-dimensional SPECTRUM, but everyone just does a Jessie Eisinberg impersonation.
do riverdale
also mention the stereotypical setting and characters.
also the fact a 27 year old was playing a sophomore..
Yesssss
Oh PLEASE take the piss out of Riverdale. And have you done the live action adaptation of Death Note?
YOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
oh please for the love of god do riverdale its mystery is good but everything ELSE IS SO BAD, THE CHARACTERS, THE DRAMA, GOOD LORD
Riverdale is based off of a comic book and is supposed to be cliche but I️ still don’t really care for it either way
When this came out I was kind of weirded out. I had once considered writing letters to every person I cared about or hated before committing suicide, but I couldn’t bare the thought of people feeling bad or at fault for my shitty life. I was also kind of pissed off about the shittiest, worst, most damaging part of my life being treated like some sort of beautiful thing for girls my age to fetishize and dream about. I actually found myself beginning to resent people I knew who liked this show. “This show reminds me of you omg” like fuck off with that shit.
What? People actually said that to you? Ew.
Sharat Sachin In their defense, our society kinda refuses to talk about suicide like it really is. They have suicide prevention talks sometimes, but it makes it all seem so fake. It doesn’t make the consequences or the signs seem real. It’s something you can laugh at afterwards because they present in a way that nobody can take seriously. But just the other day at my school we had presenters from NOPE come to talk to us about drugs and honestly I think that was the most effective presentation I’ve ever seen at school. Like I’m probably going around in circles bc my brain is a mess but I just wish suicide prevention was as in your face and raw as that drug presentation was. They had parents of victims come in. They had people tell their real stories. By the end of it, nobody was laughing. We were unnerved. We left the auditorium with stone faces. Maybe if we had something like that instead of just listening to some lady say a few lines, people would think twice about what they say when it comes to suicide.
Tubbs, gonna admit I was in a bad place when I saw this show too. But my reaction was like yours: Hannah was horrible! All she succeeded in doing was messing up the already messed up Clay with her 13 tapes of torture. Here's what Hannah (and the show) never realized: Sometimes just being is enough. However shallow, the people who love you would be wrecked without you. The guilt would be astonishing even without your letters. The best thing to do is figure out a way to just be and survive. Life is RARE in the universe. This is the only place we've seen it: Earth. We ARE special even if it doesn't feel like it in the day to day pace of our lives. But if you look beyond our little, blue dot in space, you find something magical... NOTHING! Nothing but us. LIVE! Just live. For the briefest moment, you have the experience of the universe! Even when you're crying, alone in total darkness, you ARE, and that's amazing!
jawas stole my droid That’s really nice of you to say. Life really is precious.
TubbsTheCat shut up bitch you ain’t special
In the book she overdosed. But in the “original” series she slits her wrist(Which was very gory and graphic)
I legitimately don't understand netflix adapting manga and books and then calling it an original series.
That word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
Andrew Cleary They're called originals because Netflix either produced and payed for the show's production
hrrraandm thanks for the clarification
hrrraandm Yeah, but they aren't... Original. In any other medium an "original film" or "original video game" means it's not based on an existing IP, but Netflix seems to think it means, as you said, produced in-house. Which is just the wrong use for the word, and annoying to grammar Nazis like myself.
Andrew Cleary don’t know if that’s really a grammar issue mr. nazi.
Hannah Baker: Hey can I have your pen.
Boy: Sorry Its the only pen I have
After Hannah's sucide..
Hannah Baker: Welcome to your tape.
Ifrah Iman pretty much. Episode 11 was horribly disappointing. (Same with the reveal of what Mr.Porter has to to do with it) I needed something more juicy for watching that for 13 HOURS FRRRRRRRRRRIIIIIIIIICCCCCCCCKKKKKKKK
Fuck you
Dum dum, it is about how even small things can mentally hurt a person too.
Ifrah Iman obviously this is a joke (a pretty bad one) but, if you’re going through hard times and having a bad day, even the smallest thing can hurt you.
@@daphnef2297 I 100% agree
So let me get this straight:
13 Reasons Why: portrays depression and anxiety in a horrible way, has thin written characters and makes the viewers (myself included) feel bad about themselves for having these mental illnesses. Gets praised and extremely popular.
Bojack Horseman: a show that doesn’t focus entirely on the main character’s depression and uses it to its advantage, while also being funny, colourful and having relatable characters. Goes unnoticed by the public and hardly ever talked about.
Sure, why not!
I am currently at episode 3 of season 1 never seen 13 reasons why but dude that intro is amazing. My mom for example believes rich or famous people can't get depression cuz they "got everything".
preach
Every where I turn my head around the internet everyone is always talking about Bojack Horseman and how deep and sad it is. It's not under at all.
@@Despair505 Ya I agree with u. The only reason I know of 13 reasons why is because if these videos comparing it to bojack.
@@Despair505 It always gets compared to bojack because the intro alone says more about depression than 13 reasons why does in 2 seasons
THIS IS MY thirteen tapes that i recorded just before commiting suicide as a LAST RESORT
but they were eaten by Roach named Papa
sUFFOCATION, NO BREATHING
You missed out on such a great joke...
whatever attention seeker
Nicole Beaver r/woooosh
As somebody with mental health problems, speaking up and getting help is the best thing I ever did
But what if you're so sick that you don't want help and you enjoy depression? I'm really confused and lost within myself and I don't know if I am okay with it or just unaware that I want help.
@@jasmine3847 Real question here,can we even enjoy depression?
Ruben I’m not even sure. I’m still confused.
You did the wrong thing. You were supposed to give tapes to people who accidentally pushed you in the hallway.
@@Sourballen I have moments where I enjoy depression, but overall, I find it steals a lot of potential from my life.
*Hannah Baker going to McDonalds*
Hannah: Can I get one ice cream please?
Employee: Sorry, the ice cream machine is broken.
Hannah: *wElCOmE tO YoUR tApE*
Lol
Good one lol
Wait for those angry replies folks! They's-a-coming!
You are so old sweetie
@@prettyfrog4176 Sweetie?
Review Black Mirror
Alright.
Nitpix
Well that was easy
oh. Well yay :D
wont be easy
Bricc Thicc yes please
I agree with everything you said. Honestly, my depression is a multi-layered issue that stems from childhood and involves bullying, eating disorders, a hard family life etc... it's not simply one thing. It's also not triggered by just one person and small things didn't set it off. The way the show gives a simplistic view of depression and suicide almost makes it seem beautiful. It's not. It's the worst nightmare you could possibly go through.
Mine came on worse after having my son. The hormone changes in an already difficult mind created a plethora of issues for me. I began to have intrusive thoughts, and literally thought that my disappearance would not only save my son and husband from me, but save me from the thoughts. These thoughts came on from a lifetime of OCD, feelings of depression, feelings of worthlessness, etc... but they came to me in many different ways. It's not cookie-cutter and to chalk it up that way makes it one of the worst shows for suicide prevention ever
Bessie Bear I think the romanticisation of depression and suicide is the main problem with these awful shows. When I was a teenager I was so angry and depressed, that I actually started fantasising about having the same kinds of problems that the kids on these kinds of shows had, simply because I felt that I didn't have any specific or dramatic reasons to feel the way I did. I thought, nothing that bad has happened to me, so I don't have the right to be this angry. No one person hurt me, no major events happened, it was just a very complex mixture of problems that I couldn't see. I ended up developing borderline personality, depersonalisation, body dysmorphia, anxiety. There was no one person or event to blame. These shows are obsessed with blame and revenge and give the impression that getting someone back will fix everything. It's so unhealthy.
I think its less about preventing suicide and more about showing normies what it is like. Its overly simplistic, but it has to be entertaining.
You are 100% percent right. The show is too simplistic in it's approach to this topic. Depression or anxiety are just symptoms of deeper issues; they are not the sole problem that a person goes through. I can completely relate to your story because it's similar to my own. God bless.
and this all happened within a year? she didn't ever go to therapy or try anything. do people think that those who have depression and commit suicide have a few shitty things happen and then go "Welp, time to die"
I don't think you can argue her depression was triggered by one thing, it was lots of things that made her feel excluded, used and worthless that built up. Of course there was the one obvious thing that you could argue tilted it but TBH it was a big thing.
My best friend ignored my own reaching out because she was so into this show...just how fucking ironic is that
Kate wow
holy hell what? damn that's just a bad friend is you ask me
Kate That ain't a friend.
It's a friend in the sense that normies use the word. It's also an idiot and probably not someone I would choose to get close to.
+Nela Vlasakova And here we have an example of a shit friend. Maybe you'll get on well with the OP's ex-friend, until you stab each other in the back over some minor bullshit because you clearly don't actually care about the people you call friends.
*Multiple people try to help her and give her chances*
Hannah: Guess I'll die then--
Hannah's such a badly done attempt at a tragic sympathetic character that her being raped and killing herself are the only things anyone feels sorry for her for. She pushed away anyone who tried to help her. At one point when Clay says she's a special person she assumes he's calling her retarded, says 2001 A Space Oddysey is boring when Zack goes to see it even though she works in a cinema, fails at being sarcastic while talking to Jessica and Alex outside the cinema and then despite her asking Clay to go she asks him why he left in his tape.
@@Xehanort10 then season 2 follows up with showing Hannah as the monster. lol she bullied a girl at her old school. She had a summer sex-fest with Zach (so why didnt he take her suicide harder? as they popped each others cherry. you'd think it wouldve effected him more ). Making her look like an over dramatic hypocrite and removing any possible sympathy you may have had for her.
I'm so glad this show wasn't around years ago back when I was suicidal. I used to romanticize the fuck out of suicide when I was considering it, thinking "when I do it, then they'll understand. Then everyone will feel terrible and remember me as beautiful and misunderstood". (It sounds so ridiculous now even remembering this)
Things like this, especially the suicide imagery would have absolutely made it worse. I don't even know how to explain it. Even now almost 10 years later as someone who is almost sickeningly optimistic and as far away from suicidal as it gets, I avoid this shit like the plague in fear of feeling even the tiniest amount of those depressed, suicidal thoughts I felt throughout my teen years.
MissTiana
Yup my friend doesent understand who I’m not watching season 2 but it’s because I’ve been in some dark places and the first season made me go back now I’m fine but definitely not watching season 2. I had so many problems with it.
1- it didn’t mention mental illness
2- it made it seem “edgy” and romanticized suicide
3- it made it seem like the some reason Hannah did it was to get revenge when in reality the main people suicide affects is the people who loved you like your parents and friends- it sticks with them way longer than your enemies who will forget about it.
MissTiana Don’t worry. Most people that are or have been suicidal find this show incredibly offensive, and hate it more than ordinary people do. I was just recovering from my suicidal mindset when I watched this show, and I hate it was a passion!
yeah but you'll be dead so you won't feel any justification or feel anything or be aware of anything.
Yeah pretty much, suicidal people aren't really thinking straight. But one thing they know for sure is that they definitely don't want to feel/be aware of anything anymore.
I feel the same way. I'm glad this show wasn't around when I was teen, because I know that I would be inspired by the suicide portrayed.
Instead of making its everyone else's fault they should have done the show so that the tapes presented her perception of reality, but when Clay investigates it, he finds out that while some of the things she dealt with were real a lot of them were exaggerated or completely different than what she thought. This would have been a much more realistic and interesting psychological drama, but nope, they had to make it about boyz and bullying.
theAnarch i agree, because the book was based on hannah's perspective being portrayed to clay, and clay walking around the "museum" hannah created for him. it's better writing it the way it *really happened* tbh
I agree. They did touch on this topic, but only a little bit. Like the part where Zach supposedly throws away the letter Hannah wrote him didn´t happen, as he later reveals to Clay that he still has the letter, so it does show a little how it was all told from Hannah´s subjective point of view and that not all of it may be completely accurate. Most of the time I really disliked Hannah, though, because she made everyone feel miserable equally, no matter what they did or for what reason, but they didn´t show this enough so I see a lot of people unconditionally agreeing with Hannah´s point of view, which doesn´t seem very healthy.
Exactly people don't realize depression distorts your perception of reality to an extent
theAnarch the show actually did do that... for example she thought Zach threw the paper down in the middle of the hallway but really he kept it.
theAnarch right like my depression is deep and only has some boys like come on there's more going on
This video is what made me subscribe. Im so tired of mental illness being romanticized. Its not fun, its not quirky, its not something to be taken lightly. Shows like this are the reason why so many people claim to be "depressed" and do it for the attention when they have no clue what actual depression is like.
As a fan of a Japanese manga called Rurouni Kenshin which shows depression in a way that felt real and tangible, I can agree with this comment.
+Box Story Tons of anime deal with psychological aspects far more than western shows (or at least handle it well)
Donkey Giroud it’s hard to describe without spoiling the entire story
Donkey Giroud To an extent, the anime only adapted the first 2/3 arcs, so the third arc was never adapted into anime meaning it’s only in the manga, and the anime ended on a filler arc that’s nowhere near as good as the Jinchuu arc in the manga. But I do recommend Rurouni Kenshin Trust and Betrayal which is a 4 episode prequel, then after that you choose between the manga and anime, but if you go the anime root I suggest going back to the manga to read the final arc.
God bless
"You just don't understand her! 13 reasons why is a masterpiece!"
13 reasons why makes Hannah's suicide like a giant revenge plot, but when you die you don't get to see your "great scheme play out!"
You're dead, 6 feet under the ground, with no chance of coming back.
They paint schizophrenia as something completely different then it is. You don't talk with your hallucinations, and they don't act like Hannah's ghost. They are fleeting and often terrifying experiences.
Cutting yourself is not an "alternative" to suicide.
Cutting your wrists in a bathtub doesn't work and is very slow and painful. Barely anyone surives shots to the head. Both are horrible.
Anything else?
@@samw3720 yeah... I mean obviously
@@vinetail5735 if u put hot water,it would hurt less,i think ...
Sorry but suicide is selfish
@@notwerkinginthishouse8634 you don't care about being selfish when you're clinically depressed and basically in mental agony, at least not as much as you normally would as a healthy person. The world becomes surreal and the only constant is the same pain, every single day, every single night, you can't sleep, you're tired, you vilify yourself and you vilify the world. When everything is just numb and painful, being selfish is one of the last things you'd be worried about.
@@siegwardinspirit everyone has problems and its easy not to do anything about it
been there,so
If they ever reversed the genders of Clay and Hannah, there would be outrage! Imagine how people would take it if a guy comitted suicide and blamed it on a girl, because she didn't want to be with him. People would call that out as emotional abuse (and rightfully so!)
never thought of it that way
Philip Hau Sørensen “Clay, get the fuck away from me!”
“Oh Clay, why didn’t you have sex with me after I told you ‘no’? When I said ‘no get away from me’, I meant ‘take me I’m yours’. If only you had had sex with me!”
Hannah’s a manipulative bitch!
Oh my gosh, you're right! This is very true. So yeah, there is something very wrong about what Hannah did.
Except this trope has been done millions of times in both ways.
Well said. 👏👏👏
revenge fantasy bullshit. Having tapes, having her voice, is equivalent narratively to a voice from an afterlife, which is part of revenge fantasy. "I'll show them! I'll get back at them." and then him confronting people is him carrying out her revenge fantasy. TERRIBLE.
It's funny like 95% of all those suicidal "avengers" go out of their way to let the entire world know how they don't follow any religion but when push comes to the shove it turns out they actually very much believe in afterlife. Crazy that.
There's a version of the book where she doesn't die.
yarpen26
You don't need to believe in a religion to believe in the after life. Having a religion means to believe in a god or set of gods, believing in an afterlife separate from that is completely possible.
I'm sorry but believing in the afterlife _is_ a religion because it's not based on any scientific foundation. For all we know and have evidence for, once you're dead your consciousness dies with you and that's just it. You're gone and there's no satisfaction to be had from observing all those assholes feeling bad about it because your whole being is simply no longer in existence in any way, shape or form.
My point is that most of these edgy hipster teens try to pass themselves off as those ultrarational types that are simply above all the superstitious stuff of the common simpletons. All the while believing in the afterlife is precisely a superstition, and so is reincarnation for that matter. I'm not saying either of these things isn't true but I am saying that we have no proof it is.
But even assuming there really is an afterlife to be had, what makes these people so sure they would actually even be able to look into the lives of those they would leave behind? What if the afterlife is just some kind of prison without windows? Although if I had to venture a guess, I would say that once we enter the afterlife, our way of thinking would be profoundly changed. Maybe we won't even remember our time on earth. I mean yeah, there's no way to be sure but I personally like the stories dealing with dead people who simply forget their own names after just a couple of decades of being dead. it just seems believable to me.
The only two viable options for me are:
- there is no afterlife and we simply get erased from existence, even though it's utterly incomprehensible to imagine;
- there is an afterlife but we either don't remember or care about our earth life in it. Because I'm sorry but the idea of someone finding the Heavenly chamber of that one bully from high school and then spending years upon years ranting to him about how he ruined their life seems kind of... preposterous to me.
I just don't like hypocrisy, that's all.
...Damn, I always feel terrible bringing up this topic. To be honest, I'm not even sure which of these options I would prefer to be true: actually stopping existing at one point which I can't even phathom or entering an afterlife that would go on for an eternity, with no goal to be had. I remember once when I was first thinking about it as a kid, it actually made me cry the more I dug into it. What a scary thought...
yarpen26 Exactly what I was thinking.
Not to say that if you look at the animal world(we too often forget what we really are) "injustice" is all around and none of the animals that died, die and will die in ways we'd deem "injust" or not "morally acceptable" will ever have any revenge for that, no one will ever remember them.
It truly seems like life doesn't have any value in this universe, if you look at how frequent death happens and at how all life forms need the death of others to survive.
It'd be lame and completely useless to just cease completely to exist when you die, I still think that there must be something that motivates all of this, maybe our brains are just not developed enough to get it.
Maybe death is like a whormhole to another dimension where we may exist in a different form, maybe life and death are just part of a circle that goes on and on and we'll be reborn in another form of life when death occurs without any kind of memories from our past life or maybe we have no value for the universe we live in, and death is just a state of nothingness for our minds, while our bodies will fuel the next generations of useless life forms, who knows.
Anyway, It's funny to see these edgy hipsters that think they're so rational and logic( and OMG SCIENCEE11!11!) being unable to understand that the "afterlife" they feel so proud to believe in is extremely similar to the christian and jewish one lol
I was actually raped and did try to commit suicide in high school so I can personally say this show is very harmful to people at risk.I watched it when it first came out hoping to find something I guess, maybe something to share to help others understand or help myself understand a little more since they claimed it was about awareness and such. It actually brought me back and made me feel hopeless about the rape and about life in general just like I felt back then. It's a very irresponsible show and I wish that it never existed. I fought with myself for at least a month to drag myself back up out of the bad place it dragged me back to. I think the people it speaks deepest to are the victims, at risk and survivors which are playing with fire. It's just a show but I know it's taking an unfair toll.
I can not agree more with this statement. I too had dealt with sexual assault and attemptdc to commit suicide while I was in high school. This show made me feel so sick in so many ways, and it took me to a shitty and dark place, but my addiction to dark things like this show and curiosity as a whole made it hard to stop watching it, even though I know I should have. I suppose I kept hoping to find something good from it. In the end it was just overly intense and the only good thing that I can gain from this experience is that it finally made me decide to start talking to someone about taking anti-depressants, if you can consider that a good thing at all seeing how that only meant it pushed my depression to a terrifying place all the more.
Yes, why not show the reality? You can get better, you can get help. Why replace a hopeful reality with a dark illusion? An illusion that can influence people? I don't get it.
As a writer and as someone who has been raped and attempted suicide as well, I feel like there are so many better way to convey how horrific trauma is without being over the top graphic. You can talk about issues like suicide and sexual assault, but there are ways to do it so that in case someone is watching/reading it looking for an accurate depiction of their lives, they aren't contemplating suicide by the end of it. I get so sick of people saying how it's good because its "realistic". That rape scene at the end made me physically ill and no, that's not a good thing.
That is so awful, and I'm so sorry you had to go through all of that. I hope your current life is much better, and that you've found happiness. I give out all my support.
That's fucked up, hope you're doing better.
I couldn't watch 13RW (I started but had to stop) because of how they treated suicide, making it so Hannah blaims other people, and kinda glorifying suicide, I've heard the book is worse but I'm not putting myself through that to confirm it.
the book is worse. that scene when she goes talk to the professor for the last time goes something like this:
HB: Im fine
P: if something is wrong you should tell me, maybe i can help
HB: no im fine
P:are you sure? i want to help
HB: no really im fine
P:okay well im here if you need me
HB after she leaves: he never tried to help me! welcome to your tape.
@@samf5988 Really? Wao. That's dumb I wanna talk with the Hannah of the book.
Oh no forget it. I wanna talk with the AUTHOR of the book. I have soooo Many questions.
Y’all are actual wimps
@@samf5988 wtf
@@samf5988 Really it was worse than that. She tells him she was raped and then refuses to give him any information unless he promises the guy who did it will go to prison (which she knows he can't do). And the fact that she already had the tape recording in her bag when she went to his offices shows that's exactly how she had it planned, probably because she needed at least one adult in the tapes for credibility.
Also let's not forget how Hannah left out her parents who did everything for her. She didn't even write a fucking note for them. They are the ones left with the biggest questions and in search for answers, all while Hannah made so much effort in the tapes for those high school kids. The show failed in so many ways ...
Soph PREACH, the whole thing was just so selfish
like leave her alone, and ignore obvious warning signs? good parents keep tabs on their kids.
Alt Right Black Knight
What
What the hell did they do to you...?
Anonymous Someone The parents had no way to know. It’s not their fault. In an ideal world it would be, but it’s not. She was sad, lots of people are. They could never have known the severity of it.
Good Doggo yes they didn't know but that doesn't make up for the fact that parents don't deserve a note with explanation
this show gave me a headache.
hawoo the book was so much better
Cringy gamer i agree. the book was okay but the show itself was really not that great
It’s pretty interesting, at least in the first season. I’m not sure why it’s getting hate
I just felt sick, especially after the suicide scene. That was unnecessary 'shock' value.
It gave me a stomach ache.
I agree, people struggling with suicidal thoughts have a much darker headspace than Hannah did.
Lili Koch not to mention smarter. They may be unmotivated and reckless but not dumb (Hannah)
Slightly Sleep Deprived Being smart or dumb doesn't matter, suicide affects everyone.
And Hannah was a pampered little princess who only had a few bad things happen to her.
By dumb I think that they meant the actions she took, or what she did(?) not necessarily her IQ or other abilities.
She may have been spoiled but to someone suicidal they dont think about the good things.
I think Bryce is one of the worst characters in all of fiction not because he's supposed to be hated but because there is no explanation for why he does what he does
Mark Burns he was spoiled narsisistic rich and selfish person Hannah wasnt only he raped in season 2 it is clear there are more Bryces rape victims..
Mark Burns that’s because the writers know if they give any backstory to Bryce they’ll be crucified for “humanising a rapist”
Do rapists have a reason ? No, they just take what they want.
Al3xh413 their reason in real life is the same as Bryce's. They want something they can't have so they take it by force.
It feels really weird when there is a character that has the same name as you in a show and people are talking about that character.
Now THIS is more like it. I watched this having not seen 13RW, and you brought me up to speed with what it is and your thoughts on it in such a condensed way that I just HAD to watch more. GOOD BOY!
I do love how I deliberately avoided this show because of it's setting in an American high school, and I think you criticised the setting as the reason why nothing is developed or explored properly. Brilliant.
Only thing I have to criticise is the audio mix. Music volume was a bit too high and had to squint a little at times to hear what you were saying.
Harry's Moving Castle thank you Harry ❤️
Harry's Moving Castle squinting makes you hear better?!
I just turned on the captions.
Harry's Moving Castle did senpai just notice my other senpai?
Harry's Moving Castle you hear with your eyes...?
"they didn't quite get round to that in Hannah Montana.."
I cackled
Great video mate. Also enjoy your voice and annunciation.
MissFushi I love youuuu💖
MissFushi idiyo
I think it's enunciation. I know, English is stupid sometimes. Just saying.
MissFushi l
lol
@"000& ioo
Me after 13 reasons why came out:
It’s an insult. I hate it so much
Friends: Netflix announced a second season
Me: hello Netflix. Welcome to your tape
Netflix: *adds three more seasons
Me: *16 reasons why
When I was 15 my 16 year old brother killed himself. Since then I have had several more friends kill themselves. I couldn't even finish it I was so disgusted. This felt like a show about something someone knew NOTHING about...or worse, thought was "cool".
Netflix baffles me. On one hand they make a show like Bojack Horseman, which portrays depression and the downward spiral of self-loathing and self-sabotage that comes with it in a gut-punchingly realistic way. But on the other hand they make a show like 13 Reasons Why that reduces the same topic to a shallow teenage pity party. They’ve shown that they’re capable of portraying it realistically and respectfully, so why did they fuck it up in the show that’s literally about suicide??
Netflix does not make Bojack. They own the rights to use it.
There’s different writing staff and directors for each show, you know it’s not the same people making each show right?
at the end of the day its entertainment, not every show needs to prove something or aim to change the perception of the audience on its topic
@@tatts9985 that's literally what this show tried to do.
@@connorsweeten2953 Take it at face value its a series not a documentary, people offended by it need to realise that
Also consider that it was originally a book, and the author of that book was the uncle of the girl the story is based on. Once the book got big enough, he then sold the rights of it to tv show producers. The author is directly profiting off of his neice's suicide.
Brock wait it was based on his niece that is messed up
Seriously.? I didn't know. Crazy
So the no respect for depression comes even from the book author.
Good to know.
From what I've heard, the book depicted Hannah as an actual likable character though. The author couldn't have known what the show-runners were going to do with the character/ story. He probably just wanted to get his niece's story out there and spread awareness. I don't think humanity is so deplorable that he would think "oh wow, my niece died... how can I make money from that?"
But I don't know any details because I haven't read the book or watched the show.
@@elderly_gentleman9489 i have to agree I think he just wanted his niece's story out there. He probably sold the story to tv makers because he thought it would help spread awareness
13 Reasons Why
.
.
.
.
*watching 13 Reasons Why*
.
.
.
.
1 4 R E A S O N S W H Y
Hey op I know it's been 2 years but I just wanna drop by to tell you that I love this joke.
Depression isn't thinking you will be better off without the world, it's thinking the world will be better off without you because all you are is just a burden.
Rutuja Sasankar exactly. Hannah is just a bitch
Elijah Hollis In the show Hannah literally said that maybe she was the problem. You just showed everyone that you didn't watch the show and form an opinion of your own, you just watched this video
Tootsie Wooty yes ONE TIME. And she still only said MAYBE.
It's different depending on who you are?
As a person who had these thoghts I can confirm this is true
I disagree on this crucial point: school counselors will not always help you. In my school, my counselors just checked off the "are you depressed?" "Are you self harming?" etc..boxes on their questionnaire and let it go. I was brought into the office because a friend had told them they were concerned about me self-harming because I had told someone that I was hurting myself - which I was. When I got called to the office, they told me my friend was worried about me and she was sitting right there. In that moment I felt like I had to convince them that I was normal and ok because they told me my friend was worried about me. I didn't want her to worry, so I started hiding it. Point is, school counselors don't always help. I set off so many red flags: scars on my wrists, alienating myself from people, so many things - and I didn't have the coping skills. I never got called back to speak with any of the counselors, no matter how many times I would cry in class or pull away or all of those things. Maybe some people have had great experiences with school counselors - but it is not always the case.
I agree. But still: If you portray it in the show like reaching out to a counselor isnt worth it anyway - you will have less people go there if they feel like needing help. If you portray it the other way round, more people will go to the counselors... And even tho some of them might not be able to help, alot of them will. I think making mentally unstable people go to the counselors does more good than harm.
But my school counselor sucked as well: instead of noticing my deep depression because I was bullied by the whole school, she tried to "help" me do my homework by making plans and stuff - yeah clearly thats the issue, thats what I need *facepalm
Same here, my school counselor was so easy to lie to. And the advice he gave me sucked. To understand how, let me tell you some background. Note: this happned 2 years ago. I was developing a eating disorder and was really depressed at the time. I hurt myself, thought i was unworthy to eat food. So a teacher got me to see the school counselor, which at the time was glad. But when I got to talk to him, I regreted it right away. He told me to just think happy thoughts and to block out bad thoughts, it gotten so annoying to hear that all the time that I just started to lie to him. I told him I was getting better and he seemed please and stop telling me to think happy thoughts. Im glad I had a good friend who helped me by making me eat and telling me that I was important and needed in the world, even though she knew I didnt believe it at the time.
My school also had these people that help students, idk what they were call but they don't help at all. I actually hated them because I was having a mental breakdown and was trying to make myself throw up and told then I NEEDED my friend. They said no and I was just sick. This went on for about until there was only 10 minutes of class left. I left the room to hurt myself but as I went to go back, i saw my friend and she freak out and was worried. I told her what happened and she right away went to help me. Oh yeah, the next day, that teacher who just said I was sick asked me "You were sick right?" I told her yes with such a fake smile and I can see how angry my friend was.
Sooo adults can really be able to do nothing but cause more harm them good.
P.s. my mom yelled at me when she found out I was depressed and hurtibg myself.
Fined the right people idiot. Or go to a doctor
@Sherbet Tea ~ the person that doesn't know I can't speak English properly.
@Sherbet Tea what does depression have to do with my spelling errors?
"I always do what my subs tell me to"
Well then you're not a very good dom.
Was hoping someone would make that joke.
U like being pegged
He's pretending to be a sub. It's a dominatrix.
Accckkk, this is the comment that I'm looking for.
🤣
Its horrible how this show almost encourages suicide, like you said, as a weapon, and it’s terrible to think of how many depressed people believed they were alone like how the show portrayed Hannah.
How many people did this show kill? You showed the articles about the Copycat suicides, but how many people with depression didn’t bother trying to copy the tapes gimmick but did kill them selves or try to kill themselves? The fact that this show got a second season makes me so angry.
They got warnings on the episodes so that’s how they were at least able to create a second season.
yeah, like they actually accomplish anything (the warnings)
disneydork100 That's like saying if you play FPS you are going to shoot up the school
Tootsie Wooty there’s a big difference between the message and the medium, especially in the case of mental health, think about it like this: an FPS like Doom won’t make you shoot up a school but an FPS that makes shooting up a school look like a good thing could push someone over the edge.
And that hasn’t happened yet because They haven’t made an FPS that portrays school shooting like a good thing, but this series does portray suicide as a weapon, which could push someone to do it because Suicide is extremely different from something like shooting up a school.
I know
The kids in this movie are less realistic than Mean Girls
ZessXX mean girls is accurate af, shut up.
I'd say even the kids in A Cinderella Story are more realistic than this
want a lesser realistic kids on a show? watch riverdale
The girls in this movie are less realistic than in total recall
Maybe first because they're all 17 and they're played by people who are much older
I've been falling in love with essays like this. The review was buttered nicely, not too thick or thin. The attention to detail is creamy, it melts review and carries the viewers interest well. More playful than a take down but funny enough to hold captivation. My favorite part was the papa roach soundbite. Editing like that hits me like a jab and gets me to laugh in public. Great video man!
your comment is delicious.
Clint Stopher
You are making me hungry
S E N S U A L
Are you talking about pizza?
i just got hungry from this comment
To be fair, the stalker guy would make a pretty good Mark Zuccerburg
Given the whole lizard thing at least.
Especially his hair in the next season.
I put 13 Reasons Why and Twilight in the same category of literature/media that gives the wrong ideas to impressionable young people (especially teenage girls). It glorifies helplessness and self-destructive behaviour, plain and simple.
Fifty Shades of Gray
what about Romeo and Juliet?
It's a selena gomez serie so your comment makes a lot of sense.
Plz add Life is Tumblr(Strange) to that list.
Anissa lol 😂😂
Couldn't fucking agree more!!
People who try & tell stories like this with a platform like Netflix can actually be dangerous
There's nothing inherently wrong with using Netflix to try and tell people to get help with their depression or to tell stories about certain things like toxicity (BoJack Horseman), growing up (Big Mouth and whatever else needs to be discussed with younger people. It's just that 13 Reasons did it so poorly, it risks hurting a lot of people.
As someone who has suffered under depression and suicidal thoughts, this show was absolutely vile and disrespectfull. I felt physically sick by the "suicide glorification" and the obscure message that it was everyone else's fault she killed herself, and her horrible quest to make stupid tape clues and make people feel responsible for the rest of their lives. No. Suicide a choice you make, and yes it can feel like there is no other choice. And yes, people's actions can push you in that direction. But this horrible Hannah person who is in no way likable has made it all about revenge and "haha, look what you did, now live with that!". That's not how depression works. Depression and suicidal thoughts are about thinking you are worthless and the world will be better without you, not some sick revenge feitsh or attention-stunt. Ugh.
ParadiseLost yes this is so true.
Well said.
suicide is different for every person, two types ive seen in people are the one you described which comes from feelings of insecurity and worthlessness and the other type is the "people are disgusting, they deserve to feel bad for what they did to me" anger type that Hannah baker appears to have, although the writers of the show clearly don't know the difference between the types
Kyldrian Studios if you watched he video he says one of his biggest gripes with the show is that it gives the wrong impression of what happens with suicide and romanticizing it, no one with suicidal ideation should watch this show.
Ex Tense manifestations of major depression are different for age brackets. Adults typically have the characteristic extreme sadness, lack of energy, disinterest. Depression in teens that aren’t as emotionally developed usually manifests as anger. They could’ve really explored this and educated people but nope.
Also lets be real half the people would just think "wtf, i cant use this, who the heck has a cassete player"
Great job. Still don't understand how this show got so much praise, there's nothing really of substance here to be found.
It's all because Selena Gomez worked on it. That's the only reason I heard it being praised. "No wonder it's good, Selena Gomez directed it" -which also isn't true because she was a producer but was gone 90 days of filming due to health problems.
Because it's edgy
Omega Reviews ironically I was always hearing about how helpful it was at exposing issues of suicide, which I ignored after learning she recorded her suicide notes on a Walkman in such a glorifying way
The book isn't even that good either, all of the characters are just flat and uninteresting in both versions.
This show is essentially what a depressed lonely 13 year old believes and imagines everything feels like.
It will only serve to inspire a wave of young boys & girls with suicidal ideation.
It feeds directly into their innocent lack of knowledge, experience and maturity. Self hatred is very common in teens, all this show does is tell them everything they fear and romanticize about their loneliness is true.
If you think that that wilkl be the outcome of this show... you clearly have absolutely no idea of how suicide works
I want so say right off the bat that I don't say these things in an effort to silence you. If you have good reasons you think what you said was true, it would only benefit me to listen to them. I could learn more, and be able to help more people. That being said, you claim I have no idea how suicide works....
On the contrary, my brother and I have both been diagnosed with depression and dealt with suicidal thoughts for years before we were able to pursue treatment.
I talk to dozens upon dozens of teens and young adults about depression and its influences. I try to guide them to get help, and I have a lot of experience with these issues.
In a nutshell, I was that depressed lonely 13 year old.
Victimization and the romanticizing of depression or the tragic nature of feeling so alone, is a deeply complicated and troubling thing. 13 Reasons Why handles it in a horrific way.
There's a reason many schools warned all of their teachers and counselors to watch this show and be mindful of how it may affect their students.
There's a reason suicide risk skyrockets up to 65% in the friends and family of victims.
There's a reason that google searches about how to commit suicide rose 19% (900,000-1.5 million) after this show aired.
Empathy is a powerful force and it doesn't always play nice with negative or more toxic emotions. Especially not with at risk teens steeped in self hatred, loneliness and depression.
If you have thoughts on why any of this may not be the case, I am genuinely very interested.
Sweeps That’s not what I got from this show. I got that if you are feeling suicidal, you should do it, so that you can destroy anyone that you dislike emotionally and legally and it’ll be their fault. Suicide is about revenge.
This doesn’t feed into actual depression or actual self-hatred (I should know, I was just recovering from a suicidal mindset when this show first came out), it makes suicide into a weapon. One that is depressed will only harm or kill themselves, because they cannot escape their own pain, but this is more like the actions of a Psychopath or a Sociopath, whom will willingly inflict harm into others in order to manipulate them. Hannah is not depressed, she’s Sociopathic and deserves no sympathy for her actions.
I believe everything you gathered from the show is entirely understandable. They did indeed portray it that way. It's romanticized or glorified in that way that would be alluring to a sociopath, the exact same way massive media coverage of shootings inspires copycats.
They talk about them constantly by name, their image is shown before the world, everyone knows who they are and what they did. The news outlets even have a veritable scoreboard for a victim count.
That type of treatment of a horrific tragedy is unbelievably awful. Multiple shooters have left materials or statements about how that is exactly what they want. Exactly what excites them, what they yearn for with their actions.
In 13 Reason Why, it's not entirely the same, but it is extremely similar. The show does everything you said and more through its portrayal of Hannah. I agree with your assessment, up until the very end. Sympathy as it relates to fault, is a complicated thing. While everything Hannah did was her fault and her choice, I think the biggest failing of the show is that it made her so unreasonable and gave her no realistic path to help. I want the message from all of this conversation to be that you can get help. There's always a way out and a way to be healthier and happier.
All that being said, your criticism of her and the show is extremely valid.
Sweeps There’s always a way out, but you don’t always need others to get out of a Depression (though Hannah never really was in one). You can always find a way around whatever is making you suicidal, and there are resources in schools, online, and even apps for emotional venting.
Hannah however, is not Depressed or Suicidal. One that is both will show lots of self-hate and blame themselves for things that affect them, even if they’re out of their control. On top of this, one would also constantly think about why they hate themselves and their actions, and plan their suicide over the span of months. Hannah does none of this, and is very cold and blaming in her tapes that she made to blame her scapegoats, because they didn’t play exactly as she wanted them to. I’d say that she falls under a manipulative Sociopath sooner than I’d say that she’s Depressed.
I mean, I can’t imagine saying the equivalence of “Have sex with me, or I’ll kill myself.” coming from anyone other than a Sociopath.
THIS
IS
A
VERY
GOOD
VIDEO
THIS
VIDEO
IS
A
VERY
GOOD
Lovely Gardenias agreed thank you
What the hell is wrong with this comment???
Sausage Mahoney I was just saying this was a well made video... it’s a small TH-camr who has made quality content and I am showing my support. Chill the fuck out lmao
+Sausage Mahoney do you need someone to talk to ?
I never wached 13 Reasons Why, and never planned on doing so.
Hoo boy am I glad I didn't
Theres a scene where a guy rapes another guy in the bathroom with a moop
@@talentleesdorito9771 excuse me what the fuck
Haha I started watching it out of curiosity and I thought that I was in a better headspace. But NO I just spiraled back into my self harm tendancies. I'm better now but this show does not help
I tried watching the show when the first season came out, and I basically gave up on the show halfway through. Just watching an awful show that glorifies suicide is just sickening. I had dealt with suicidal thought before, but luckily I didn’t hurt myself. I had gotten out that dark period of my life with the help of my family, my friends, and the help of God.the overall message of the film is just insulting and very nihilistic. Sure I have meet people of people who didn’t help me when I needed the most, but this show and the overall book just doesn’t understand how people interact. This Jay guy need to reflect on what he has written.
To me, her suicide would've made more sense if it was an overdose. Her parents owned a pharmacy; that's a less specific, and less gory scene. The show felt like a typical teenage movie and didn't raise the right awareness in my opinion.
xviemria It was an overdose in the book
Yeah, she actually did overdose in the book. Now... Why would the show creators change the method from that into something so much more gruesome? To make it more dramatic/intense, which is kind of disgusting to me. Imagine being like, "I don't think overdosing is dramatic enough... What if instead, she slits her wrists on camera? Yeah... That'll raise more awareness!"
in the book they had overdose, but they added a more gory scene because (according to the beyond 13RW) the author said they wanted her to kill herself in a gruesome way to show that suicide isn't supposed to be an easy way out
The scene is MEANT to be gory and VERY hard to watch because it's MEANT to be emotional.
xviemria amazing comment
You expressed my thoughts about the show exactly...
Wow this is such a good video...
This show is an insult to people with mental health problems especially teenagers who deserve better than this. I've yet to see a serious look into the teenage mind and how things like depression, rape and suicidal thoughts effect them.
Anakin Skywalker I will finnish what you started
Kylo Ren Hi grandson
I have mental health problems and it showcased so many moments of my own life, except for the killing myself part. You're wrong.
Jay Biv Your life must be a Hollywood set then, cause this movie is bullshit, you dont even find such characters in everyday life
Jay Biv if you accept that you have mental health problems then how do you ever expect to be cured of them.
When I was 13 I went through some very dark shit with severe suicidal thoughts. I was very socially isolated and bullied at the time. I was also, regardless of circumstances, still a very dramatic young teenage girl... and I can guarantee you, if I had watched this show then, it would have put some very harmful ideas in my head. I would have felt like my suicide would have been some kind of social vindication. It would have amplified my conviction so much. What got me through it at the time was knowing that my death would destroy my parents and the only thing I could think of worse than living was there being an afterlife and having to watch them suffer for the rest of their lives.
The thing about hannah is that she doesn’t sound depressed...she sounds like she always has power. She talks back to people etc. And even makes a fucking revenge plot. That’s doesn’t like a horrible sad girl to me
True, sounds more like a vindictive, self absorbed bitch to me.
The problem they had with Hannah (well one of them, but a big one narrative if not anything else) is that shows with a female protagonist, especially ones aimed for young people are almost duty bound to portray the female leads as "strong independent women" or risk backlash. And while that is usually not a bad thing, in this case they would have served the story and even their attempt to help people by portraying Hannah as someone who felt more helpless, was not the kind of confront or directly deal with things, and was a afraid of confrontation and possibly a bit introverted or socially inept. Which would have made her reacting to a lot of these issues make more sense. But they had to make her a "role model of female empowerment" while also trying to make her seem helpless and alone which at the very least takes better writing then what this show had, but truthfully was not the best choice given the character. At the very least a girl in her situation would be someone who appeared strong but it was all a front, but Hannah was strong and in control and able to handle anything... until the plot called for her not to then she randomly wasn't for that instance before reverting to the ballsy outgoing Hannah the rest of the time. It was honestly bad writing.
DanTheMan that's a really good point. By portraying Hannah as a strong independent woman it could also give the message that if you feel depressed then you should I'll yourself to stay in control and be the strong person. Not really the best message to send to at risk people.
The Fox Among Wolves that’s mostly why people hate this serie
Yeah I agree. It's just so shitty that we can't separate gender and emotions in shows and films like this. Females don't need to be overemotional, we're not all like that. Guys don't need to be emotionally passive. They're not all like that either. This storyline would've been much healthier and receptive to audiences if the writers and actors just created these characters authentically instead of trying desperately to keep them in their respective social boxes. Depression doesn't have a label, and chronicling the suicide of a bratty girl who is out of touch with the fact that the world doesn't revolve around her doesn't raise awareness. It makes people feel like shit about being depressed because much like the show depicts, people like to think that being depressed is just being overdramatic about life's normal ups and downs. (With the exception of rape, since it doesn't happen to everyone). On top of that listening to the professionals about how to depict depression and suicide would have been a nice touch. Honestly just overall I can't stand this show. It's abrasive to the fight against stigmatization, and inconsiderate to suicide survivors. F in my book every time.
This show infuriated me so badly
missironmouse how exactly did it infuriate you?
Hannah's such an unlikable bitch
It was her decision to take her life in the end. She always had a choice. Can't blame anybody else for what she did. Yeh they definitely influenced her but not knowing that she would kill herself. Some people have even gone thru worse but havnt killed themselves yet because everybody responds differently to different situations.
I saw all the good ratings this show was getting and decided to go watch it then I realized halfway through the 2nd episode that the ratings were probably coming from teens that thought covering topics like depression = a good show. With all the good ratings it was getting I was expecting a really solid and well written story line with excellent acting and I literally got zero of that.
You know what’s really fucking fuckitty FUCKED? Here in Norway the translation is “13 good reasons”. Yeah.
YEAH.
WHO THE FUCK THOUGHT THAT WAS A GOOD IDEA WTF I will never watch that show. And god damn it they are making another season.
I was depressed and suicidal for a long time but i got better and watched 13 reasons why and got depressed again
betty boo that’s why I have never watched it.
By weaponizing her suicide, turning it into a revenge plot, they took Hannah from a character we were supposed to relate to and understand, a girl who felt she had no other options who was spiraling downward, and framed her as a borderline narcissist who decided that she would use her death in order to exact revenge on those who wronged her, making them her permanent victims by branding them with her suicide. It was eerily similar to an episode of SVU where a powerful and successful exec kills herself at a press conference she called on national tv, but not before blaming all of her employees for her suicide- all because she was exposed for being verbally and physically abusive and as a result her business and reputation took a spiral.
Actually it is later revealed that Zack never threw away the note, he kept it, which is why I don’t know if I believe Hannah because if she lied about that, how do we know she isn’t just fibbing and exaggerating the whole story.
Ironmantwd4580 and also there were parts where she was overreacting on simple scenarios
Chesca Stypayhorlikson that too yeah
I personally am a fan of 13 reasons why. But Hannah pissed me off
IRENE IS MY BAE yea and there were situations where she places herself as the victim even though she isn't. But I can't blame her, though. After all she's been through her mind is always going to be on edge and be alarmed by simple things.
Chesca Stypayhorlikson yea but it's like yes most of the people in the tapes are at fault but she exaggerates to a point here she makes it look and sound like it's EVERYONES fault
doki doki did i better...
@Sirballin System NOOOO NOOOOOO, WHY WOULD YOU REMIND ME OF THE PAIN
Sayori deserved better
@@DrCL-cl4eg ^
🅘 🅖🅔🅝🅣🅛🅨 🅞🅟🅔🅝 🅣🅗🅔 🅓🅞🅞🅡
@@DrCL-cl4eg Sayori is my ultimate waifu
I watched this show with some friends as a "so bad it's fun to watch" kind of thing. But Hannah is unlikable, the characters act totally illogical and above all else the show is just so tasteless and stupid. 2/10 on a good day
you're being too generous. i'd rate it major time waster out of 10.
Blame the victim
Everyone: please don't *glorify suicide*
The writers: *glorify suicide* , you say?
People: no please *do* not--
Writers: *_DO??_*
People: nO-
The pop makes it more comedic
As a person who deals with depression and anxiety and who has attempted ,this show just made me angry .
flaundre .scarlet
Same the first season made me so upset and spiral now I’m just angry and I’m definitely not watching season 2.
flaundre .scarlet Same. I had just began recovering right when this show came out. I had no sympathy for Hannah and for not other characters. It just infuriated me that such an offensively fake and simplified story could become popular. I hate this show with a passion!
As someone who has been depressed and nearly considered suicide dozens of times. I like the show.
IthinkIpokedmybrain May I ask why? I'm curious.
I totally agree.
We coincidentally read the book in class around the time this show came out and the book is a lot better in many of the points you criticized though I still wouldn’t call it a good portrayal of suicide.
In the book, Clay really barely knew Hannah. They worked together at the cinema and kissed at the party after which Hannah panicked and rejected him which implies that them getting together might not have helped at all. Hannah put him on the tapes not to guilt trip him, but to apologize. The only thing he could be faulted for was not realizing the suicidal signs Hannah was exhibiting, but then again neither did anyone else. The target audience aren’t suicidal people who need consolation, it was written to open the eyes of those who might be able and willing to help those suicidal people if they only noticed the signs and had the courage to talk to them, that’s why the book ends with Clay talking to a girl who might have similar problems. So considering this, the book actually ends on a hopeful note. Not saying this was the perfect way to execute it, but I can follow that logic.
Aside from the Peeping Tom incident, there never were any naughty photos taken of her and even the ones that were were never spread around school. The rumors were just typical high school rumors that went too far and attracted negative attention which I can buy. This kind of stuff happens more often than it should although it usually doesn’t lead to suicide.
The people on the tapes were also nowhere near that bad in the book. Courtney and Justin who are flat out villains in the show weren’t terrible people either, they were just normal students who made mistakes that could have been prevented if they kept their big mouths shut or in the second Justin case, opened it at the right time and Hannah even admits that she made the same mistake in that situation. In fact, I‘m pretty sure that in the book Courtney wasn’t even aware of the way she treated Hannah, she genuinely thought she was doing something nice when she used Hannah as a ride to the party. She wasn’t some manipulative closet lesbian, she just had her head far up her own ass. Which is a much more realistic type of personality by the way.
Bryce is the only one who really was a sociopathic asshole and abused girls because it turned him on. However, he never actually raped Hannah at the pool, he made the moves on her and she didn’t reject him because she was using him to let go of herself.
And finally, the suicide itself was nowhere near as dramatic as in the show. No slit wrists with blood everywhere in the bathtub, she was simply confirmed to have taken pills which again, is a more realistic and less glorifying way for people kill themselves.
I think the book is a lot more tactful in dealing with this issue although I don’t even consider it to be all that great. The fact that the show is going for a second season despite there being no source material left shows what they’re really going for.
What are your main gripes with the book's potrayal?
Slitting writs is nothing glorifying, in fact it was a horrifying and powerful scene. Made me realize I'd never slit my writs if i wanted to commit suicide.
I agree with all of this. The glamourizing of suicide in mainstream media has always upset me. My friend committed suicide in high school and if she saw this unpoetic, overly stylized bullshit she'd roll over in her grave. Good intention, horrible execution. Thank you for pointing all of this out! And thank you for having the balls to say what so many other want to say.
So suicide is off limits? What about murder? Do you boycott slasher films for glamorizing the murder of teenagers?
Girl: “Hannah, very cute outfit! Looks nice on you!”
Hannah: “By telling me you loved my outfit in front of those 2 guys...I’ve never felt more sexualized or violated....The looked at my jacket...*shivers* Welcome to your tape”
BRO ON ME! 😂😂😂😂FELT LIKE SHE WAS JUST MSKIN UP SHIT AT ONE POINT
You know what hurts me the most?
That the writers don't care about how it can affect people with suicidal thoughts, it's like that they have never experienced any struggles relating to depression, anxiety or suicidal thoughts.
The warnings will help but the fact that it needs warnings to explain to get help and suicide is bad shows how badly it is written.
I knew from the beginning I would hate this show, mainly due to people watching it, justifying suicide and then copying or just doing it.
Or maybe different people react to it differently. I've had suicidal thoughts almost my entire life (40+ years), and not once did I think this show glorified or justified suicide in any way.
Jesus christ if when ever a series or film was made they had to establish how many people it would offend theyd never make anything
eskarina1000 yeah but it’s still a big mess of a show.
ok what pissed me off the most was that the novel was actually amazing and helped me get through a really hard point in my life. i was so excited when i heard they were turning it into a show. but the thing is? they didnt look into the extensive amount of research the author went through. the way he wrote the book, it wasnt a story about revenge, it was a story about a girl who was mad at the world. she was mad for reasonable reasons, but it the whole point is that she ended up hurting people who didnt understand what she was going through. it helped put in the perspective of a person on the outside, someone who can see all the options she could've taken. it pointed out when she could've gotten help and the main character goes through a lot of self reflection, trying to put himself in her shoes. it was a perspective i personally needed to hear. but then in this shitty ass show they just boiled it down to the drama and the plot falls flat. instead of showing the complex struggles of a guy who didnt really know her all too well, but somehow ended up on this list of people who she considered her "reasons", it became a show about the relationship they had??? and the order of the tapes were fuking changed too like his was in the middle but nO its more dramatic for his to be the end bc thats what the show is about. its about glorifying the fact that she was helpless whEN THE GODDAMN POINT OF THE BOOK WAS THAT SHE FUCKING WASNT AND SHE FAILED TO SEE THE PEOPLE TRYING TO HELP HER. IT POINTS OUT TO PEOPLE WHO FEEL LIKE SHE DID THAT THERE ARE PEOPLE AROUND YOU WILLING TO LISTEN AND THAT THERE ARE REALLY NO GOOD "REASONS" BECAUSE EVEN IF YOU HAVE A STORY AS SHITTY AS HERS YOU CAN GET PAST IT AND ITS NOT WORTH YOUR LIFE UGH IDK IM SO FRUSTRATED BY HOW WATERED THE FUCKING TV SHOW IS. maybe i only saw it this way bc i went to the authors tour in highschool and he explained who the book was based on but idk i just hate seeing such an important message being turned into a ~highschool drama revenge~ story
Maki Bah what's your profile pick it's CUTE
Boerger plays its sylveon! my favorite eeveelution c:
Maki Bah what no no the picture is of a Sylveon but where'd you find the picture
Boerger plays oh! im pretty sure its a screenshot from the anime but i could be wrong? i cant find the original image. but i used photoshop to put it over the floral background!
...I fucking love you dude.
The music throughout this video is great, some of the time I wasn't even focusing on the video itself but on the music, Gorrilaz, lofi, synthwave(?) it's all very charming and fits the theme of the video and the topics you talk about.
Especially when the last track is from the score of Virgin Suicides.
The episode with the purple cat from Big Mouth portrayed depression better than 13rw
Yes. It sadly did. The comedy about puberty did a better a job at portraying depression than a show that it based on the fact that someone killed themselves
Dear Nitpick,
I normally never comment on videos unless it really drives me to. I stumbled across this video as it was in my reccomend section and gave it a watch. I like hearing everyone's opinions on different arrays of shows I watch and you, sir, won my sub for actually saying something that I've been trying to explain to my friends since I watched it. I'll show this to them. You are a godsend and I can't wait to watch more!
Love, Your new fan ♡
Take your own advice. Thanks.
Bojack horseman does a better job depicting someone with depression.
Edible Chicken gotta love bojack horseman
I was thinking the same. I found myself even having minor relapses watching that show, but for this, nothing
Bojack=life
Bojack Horseman is such a good show. It’s complex with the themes of depression, self worth, nihilism, identify, and much more complements the well written characters.
Weird how an animated comedy can be more respectful and nuanced, then a show like this. Huh...
When I watched this show it genuinely felt like Hannah was the jigsaw killer of the story 😂
Callum G me too
If you're interested in a very good movie on suicide, there's an anime I really love called A Silent Voice, which is a very good portrayal of these issues.
I've read the book as it was a school project. Felt disgusted. Glad to know the series stayed true to the original.
The amount of unhealthy content and the glorification of her suicide that she tries so hard to justify made me throw up on every other page.
This shitshow wouldn't matter, UNLESS it's so toxic that little impressionable kids might actually want to give it a try.
Agree 100% with the video. You took the words out of my mouth.
I am for creative freedom, but that also means that a toxic garbage like this needs to be properly critiqued.
Thanks for this. I can skip the book now (hoping that it would have been better than the show).
F*** this show. If I had viewed it 10 years ago as a 14 year old lonely awkward teenager who was terrible with girls, romanticized the idea of how high school would be and therefore was disappointed with its outcome, along with my issues wth self confidence and understanding my place in this world, I fear I may have done something harmful to myself. Sure depression still comes and goes, but I know that I have people that love me, a lot of the problems in my life can be solved quickly and my mind makes up a lot of them. I. Am. Blessed. I now just take every day one day at a time and I try to make note of all the times my life is given a gift. But I know that now as a fully grown adult. I know that after having life experience and after having clawed my way out of some dark times. This show is dangerous. I genuinely feel bad for those children who feel so alone in this world that they feel that this show is a source of inspiration. Middle and highschool was and is a nightmare for quite a number of kids out there and they don't need shows like these to make things worse.
Wow I’m tearing up right now. Nobody asked for your life story, sorry hun.
My teenage years were complete and utter shit. Going to class gave me panic attacks frequently. You know what, my entire childhood was shit.
That comment is so stupid it’s funny
UnknownShadow360 oh shut up pussy
13 Reasons why is a straight up insult to people who have struggled with suicide
As someone who has struggled with suicide, I can confirm that you are WRONG. This is a really accurate portrayal of how it feels.
TheAntagonist What you blame everyone else for how you feel? You are suicidal out of spite? Thats bullahit and we both know it. Either you arent actually suicidal or you are just bullshitting.
Well for one, Hannah doesn't blame for her death, she's blaming them for encouraging the onset of her depression. They all pushed her to a dark place she could no longer handle, namely because she was assaulted, humiliated, and felt she'd been abandoned. She wanted them to know how they'd hurt her, and they weren't the only ones. If you pay attention, there are MANY more names on the papers she'd planned it out on, indicating that these were only the MAIN events, not the ONLY events that pushed her over the edge.
Also, this sort of "you're not really suicidal" is part of why Hannah had such a hard time telling people - lots of people don't understand exactly what the symptoms of depression and warning signs of a potential suicide.
And on the last note, yes, I am mentally ill. And you can't tell me I'm bullshitting that, since I've had the cops called on me to stop a suicide attempt, I was sent to an in patient program for evaluation twice, and I still have to take two anti-d's a day just to keep me out of bed. I was emotionally abused by my mother starting back in grade school, and when I was finally diagnosed my doc went over symptoms I hadn't even known were a part of depression. Hannah may not have even KNOWN she was really depressed, just thinking she was deeply hurt.
TL;DR, There's a difference between blaming someone for your death vs saying they contributed to worsening your depression. That's like being stabbed, and the stabber leaves the knife, but another person comes along and twists it. Person 2 CLEARLY made things worse, and you can't deny that they hurt you.
its more an insult to everyone else. because in today's society generally if you're actually depressed there are ways to get help.
TheAntagonist Maybe for you, but holy shit not for me lmao. I’ve attempted suicide 7 times, this show was a DISGUSTING mockery.
I don't think all of Hannah's problems would've faded away if Clay asked her out 😂
He sarcastically said that because that's how the show portrays it. According to the show before the rape it acts like if Hannah asks Clay out it'll magically solve all her problems. It won't and didn't.
What problems did Hanna actually have 🙄
@@ryanpurplenintendoeater9869I mean she was raped but whatever right?