Walking North London's Lost River Moselle (4K)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 ส.ค. 2024
- A walk through Tottenham following the lost river Moselle which rises in Highgate Woods and makes its confluence with the River Lea near Tottenham Hale. Related video: Hike Along the Pymmes Brook • Hike along the Pymmes ...
Map and info from Haringey Friends of Parks Forum
www.haringeyfr...
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Our walk starts at the confluence of the River Lea and the Pymmes Brook at Tottenham Hale and we find the confluence of the Moselle and the Lea by Markfield Park. We follow it through Markfield Park into Markfield Road and then along Broad Lane through Tottenham Hale to Scotland Green and then to Tottenham High Road. We pass the new Tottenham Football Stadium and follow the Moselle along White Hart Lane and into Tottenham Cemetery where we see the river running along a culvert. We pass the 12th Century All Hallows Church and end our walk at Bruce Castle.
More info:
High Road Conservation Area www.haringey.g...
Sources:
Haringey Friends of Parks Forum
www.haringeyfr...
London's Lost Rivers by Tom Bolton tombolton.co.u...
Maps:
NLS Map 1873
maps.nls.uk/vi...
'Reproduced with the permission of the National Library of Scotland'
maps.nls.uk/in...
Open Street Map “© OpenStreetMap contributors” using data available under the Open Database Licence
Music:
La Terre, Ensoleilee 432 - 369
Kindred Spirits - Howard Harper-Barnes
Lamna - Lo Mimieux
Muted Rain - Amaranth Cove
courtesy of Epidemic Sound
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Many memories of the Moselle, we used to jump over it in Tottenham Rec. You passed My Mother's grave along the Moselle in the Cemetery. I'm on the banks of The Tyne now, a beautiful walk Cinder Path past George Stephensons Cottage and up through to Hadrians Wall . Going back I used to fish the River Lea on the outflow of The Pymmes Brooke Fantastic, Nice One John 🎣🏆🙏
Curtis in Las Vegas. I've had an obsession with London since I was a boy.. hooked on Dickens stories.
Your videos are IMPORTANT.. keeping these memories and traditions alive. Thanks again.
This is a fantastic hidden gem John. I walked the Lea Navigation from Totten Hale to Bow Creek last weekend and felt you were travelling with me.
Hi Roger, at the 7:27 mark there used to be the Gestener factory, a huge employer in the area for many many years. When i'm giving directions to fellow motorists of a certain age, i give them a start point of a long lost or demolished building and if i'm giving directions to someone in the Tottenham area, i always use Gesteners as a reference start point despite it being demolished probably 30 years ago! Sad thing is most people my age (old) know exactly what im on about. Cheers again mate.
You're greeting to, er, Roger really cheered me up mate!
Yup worked at Gestetners for 18 months
1959/60 along nearby was John Dickinson and and opposite direction was Harris Lebus (made parts for the
Mosquito aircraft in WW2 I lived in Antill Rd.till 1966
I love the little rivers of London. I was born in Catford late 1950's. Our flat backed on to the Ravensbourne river and I used to play in the river as a kid...happy memories. I no longer live in London, so it's wonderful to see how the old place is. Cheers for your vidoes
Another wistful wandering walk round a part of London I've always loved. I have to admit that I'm one of the thousands of disappointed people who support Spurs. I love the area for its unabashed workmanlike persona, its relics of past grandeur and its lack of pretention. The stately and always wonderful Jimmy Greaves reckoned he could be bathed dressed and downing pints in the Corner Pin before the rest of the team had got their boots off. And if I'm not mistaken, at 11.45, that's a mural of the legend that is King Ledley. What a beautiful day out John. Thanks for showing us the hidden river and the glories of the backstreets of Tottenham.
Keep the faith brother. COYS.
I have said this before but the pleasure of lost river walks is exploring back streets that a stranger would rarely visit. Nice walk.
I have a meeting in Tottenham next week, if I've got time I'll visit the library and see if I can actually see the river! I remember seeing an episode of a property show where a family in London had a stream running under their house so in the kitchen they put in a glass section of the floor and you could see the river running.
yes, I saw that show too Sean.
Thanks for taking us on your journey John. That moment when you happened across the river in the graveyard was magical
The building at 11:50 very much has the look of an old Territorial Army Centre of the type that appeared during the 1930s in the run-up to WW2. They predominantly followed a standard pattern of that time.
This was wonderful, we felt your joy and egged you on when you found the Moselle in the Cemetery. A lovely video, thank you John. Rivers are our favourite
Many thanks Anne - that was such a great uplifting moment
Brilliant episode, John. Can I also add I really like your music soundtracks too. They're great. They really set the mood everytime.
Hi John great to see you walking this river
The moselle was a big deal in my community comming from the Tottenham Wood Green borders area as a youngster I mean.
Jumping the moeee was what all the kids did of a weekend and after school times the river back then in the 70s which ran through lordship recreation park was more of a ditch and kids would jump across it as a dare and try to keep dry it used to smell a bit so good to avoid the water back then and it flowed under the Broadwater Farm Estate in a culvert going south .
I remember it bursting its Bank often and the Lordship Rec becoming a Marsh temporary and us kids would wade through it to the dismay of our mums.
I remember it flooding Westbury Avenue around 1975 and the council enlarged the culvert after that.
I believe the river has been graduated within Lordship Rec in recent years to improve it from its former ditch like status it would be good if you follow up you're first video to follow the route to Wood Green.
Top of end of Lordship Rec is where the Downhills Air Raid Shelter disaster occurred
Wood green is full of History .The Wood Green Empire was famous for a n act where a man would catch a fired bullet between its teeth it went wrong later and he died on stage.
The Elephant used in the the theatre had stables alongside moselle avenue.
On the buses intro was filmed at Wood green bus garage redsvers r.d.
And there was a place nearby on the Wood Green High R.d called spouters Corner our version of Hyde Parks speakers Corner
you are absolutely correct - there's nothing quite like a lost river walk! i share in your contentment, john, thank you!😊
I was Born in hackney raised in Shoreditch moved up to Stamford hill in the late 70s and grew up there and Tottenham until my late teens. Thanks for showing the old neighbourhood.
Thanks for that, I've many memories of working that area as a policeman over a decade ago. Fascinating place
Really enjoyed it, John. It's a great river to track. Would love to see you follow it up to its source in Queen's Wood in another video. Down in Markfield Park, the Stonebridge Brook also flows out into the Lea. It starts up in Crouch End, near the corner shop from Shaun of the Dead
Seconded!
Another triumphant lost river walk, sir! & being a long-suffering Spurs fan I can certainly confirm the years of pain...
Thanks Phil - I reckon better days are just ahead for Spurs
@@JohnRogersWalks Can't be any worse ha!
An absolute pleasure to take this walk with you John, thanks a lot👍🏻
Brilliant John, love the lost river videos a lot. The Moselle flows down the side of the skatepark built on the filter beds in Markfield, up alongside the railtrack. It is is visible and flowing, although polluted there unfortunately. Cheers!
that was an toilet back in the days and across the road was an community centre i ice skated there once .. i used to live in Tottenham grew up there till i was 47...visit regularly
I have tears in my eyes, thank you so muuch. I am a lost Tottenham fan who left London in 1972 and left the UK in May 1975. I have a 3 X great grand father buried in All Hallows Church Yard and a 2 X great grandmother born on High Cross Lane (now gone) near the Hale. Did you know there is a 9th bell in the tower of All Hallows that was stolen from a Church in Quebec City after the battle on the heights of Abraham 1759 (Generals Wolfe and Montcalm and all that). Brought back to Tottenham by some British Soldier, it is never rang. Perhaps 350 years later it could be returned, a bit of a good will gesture perhaps? Marvelous Video, thank you.
John
I live in Australia, but the lost rivers of London have always fascinated me, plus the canal system, plus ....... anyway, I'll stop now.
Love the vid
Thanks John! Lovely we got to see the River flowing through the Cemetery. Shame you ran out of time, there used to be a gigantic old tree in the park opposite Bruce Castle, possibly an Oak, that had props under the lowest branches and the poor hollow trunk had been filled with concrete! But it was still alive! The Cemetery is beautiful in Spring, used to be lots of flowering Cherry trees spreading pink/white "blossom confetti" over the graves. Had a friend who lived nearby in old Cemetery Workers cottages, leased by a small Housing Co-Op (remember them?). I was sad to see all the high rise "Regeneration" around Tottenham Hale - completely incongruous to locality, and who are they for? Doubt if it's Social Housing but that's my cynicism, based on similar schemes all over formerly working class London. Rant over..
Lovely walk John. Always appreciate the research and history that you put in to your walks . Was magical to see the Moselle flowing through the graveyard.
Many thanks Ian - the lost rivers always have a bit of magic about them
Yet another great post. I love the passion and excitement you bring to your videos. Never disappointed. Thanks.
Many thanks L - I love making these videos
A nice walk though Tottenham John, while I was at school back in the 70s we would jump the Moselle in the Lordship rec. a good book to read on the roots of Tottenham Hotspur is the authorised biography of Bobby Buckle, Spurs founder and first captain.
The river runs right underneath the wonderful broadwater farm estate where I live. Tottenham rec. Fantastic place
What a fascinating cross section of urban life on that walk. Thanks John.
Thanks for another cracking ramble around London’s rivers
You should return and walk the Moselle from its source in Highgate, through Hornsey to Wood Green. To my mind a more interesting walk. You could detour to see if you can find the “mossy well” that gave its name to Muswell Hill.
Would love this too as my family came from Muswell Hill.Really enjoyed this walk.Thank you John.
Hello John. This river is a new one on me. Nice one. Have you ever thought about walking the New River (the one that ends up in merrie Islington, man-made a few hundred years ago)?
I love a river walk - thanks John have a great week
Cheers James
The only place I've ever been in Tottenham is White Hart Lane in the '80s for a match. It's nice to see all this history that I never knew was there. Thank you.
I remember a playing around in a fairly lengthy ‘stream’ in Queen’s Wood as a kid. Just checked on a map and it is still very visible - and labelled ‘Moselle River’. Might be worth checking out.
John, I don’t know if anyone has mentioned it previously but when I was a kid the Moselle was visible running through Wedge’s Roofing Supplies on the corner of WHL and Beaufoy Road. When I visited my old haunts a few years ago the river appears to be covered over now with a carpark for employees there.
Thanks for that info- really useful to log these changes
Looking forward to this walk John.
I used to fish the bottom end of Pymme's Brook as shot at the start here John. Commonly known as The Ditch, it held lots of fish - who were probably there to enjoy the clean water that the canal did not have. Greatly enjoyed your walk up that a few years back. Almost like a chalk stream in a concrete straitjacket. Apparently you could even catch the odd trout out of there! :-)
Hooray! Thanks John for this, my Sunday fix is reinstated. And, hooray for that fab moment when you encountered the live river above ground. Magical.
Cool to see Hallows church - beautiful old building.
All Hallows was a highlight. What a beautiful church.
Thanks John, I particularly liked where you ended our walk. Cheers.
What a delightful walk and such a thrill to see one of London's river's actually flowing. I once went on a City of London walk where the guide showed us one of London's lost rivers actually flowing through the foyer of an office building. Regrettably, can't for the life of me remember or identify or find out where or what it would have been.
Cheers John was interesting
I lived in Tottenham till 1966 and Markfield Park was my local rec. As a lad
We would enter the park along a wide path with corrugated fencing through the
Sewage farm at the end of the path before the park was a connecting channel and some days it stank like he'll.
I see you featured the gas light and cake Co. Building (you referred to it as a library) across the road opp. The white building was the old L C S building used to go into both with my gran late 40s early 50s.
Thank you. I'm from Tottenham, I look forward to watching other lost river videos of yours and the continuation of this one
I always used to think that was the river Lea never ever heard of the Moselle river. thanks for posting.
Thanks, John - that brought back some childhood memories. A pity you weren't able to get further upstream - I remember the Moselle running through Lordship Lane Rec in the 1960s, sadly polluted and neglected - I gather one of the problems is illegal discharge from pipes that should be plumbed into the foul water drains. I hope you can get to those upper reaches one day. A couple of small points - De Beauvoir Town has always been pronounced 'Beaver' as far as I know, and despite the name, the Spurs ground was never actually on White Hart Lane. The new ground is amazing, but sadly will do nothing to ease the torment you so rightly refer to...
The section of the Mosell in Lordship rec.was rerouted an runs parallel with the old route but is much wider and deeper
@@vin2890 I'm wondering if there's a connection between the name of Broadwater Farm and the Moselle River which flows underneath it...
@@slomo947 I remember jumping over the Moselle from one bank to the other when I was a kid back in the seventies. On the west side of Lordship 'Rec' the river flowed out of a brick built tunnel that had a metal grill across the outlet to prevent us kids venturing down the tunnel (didn't stop us). On the eastern side the river disappeared into a concrete culvert under the concrete jungle known as the Farm. The good old days!
What a fantastic piece of work. I have visited this area many times and have learnt so much from watching this. I am now looking forward to my next visit.
Many thanks John.
Please keep up the good work!
Added you to my evening's viewing tomorrow - Adventureme, John Rogers and Martin zero.
You should add Jago Hazzard as well.
@@andyrob3259 I watch his videos occasionally.
Thanks John, great video as always. I know the area being one of those disappointed spurs fans! The 1930s Art Deco building on the highway road, I believe is a recent rebuild about ten years old, after the original was burnt down after during the 2011 riots. The building the other side I have always admired too.
Wonderful John, these little rivers do take you on some fascinating journeys and just to see it flowing through the cemetery so Bonny
Another intriguing vignette...I have a friend who lives in that area and I recommended your video. Another tour de force, John. 🇯🇪
Yet again thank you for my Sunday fix. Sundays would not be the same without the calming stunning walks though history that you provide. I must admit being a little disappointed that you did not end the walk in the Elmhurst pub , just across the road from where you finished , as I have fond memories . Being the first pub I managed 28 years ago. (hope its still there )
Wow Barry I bet you have some great stories. I actually walked on to Green Lanes and had a couple in the Salisbury where I used to drink 1991-92
A great pub effectively closed about 10 years ago.No doubt to be converted into flats and a fast food shop in conjunction with about 35 to 40 pubs in Tottenham i could name over the last 3 decades.The Marxist cultural destruction long planned and executed.😕
Thanks John , I loved this one - especially finding the uncovered river & of course the foxes!
great walk and lovely river, thanks John.
There is road callled Moselle Avenue in my home town of Wood Green. There is Pymmes Park in Edmonton.
Great walk John,love to see parts of London I am not familiar with.allways find it amusing when you get a sniff of a river and rwlly go for it.
Hi John - thank you for this look at the path of this lost River Moselle and for the walk through Tottenham!
Many thanks Sharon - so glad you enjoyed it
Thank goodness you found it.
Thank you John
Yet another gem
Hello John. I walked the route of the Moselle in May 2021. I was told the river can be glimpsed through a hole in the floor. Sadly on my visit the light was broken so that was not possible. The friendly librarian informed me that only once a member of the public (me) advised of the fault she was able to report it - bureaucracy eh? Hopefully it has since been repaired.
My old offices were in Ashley rd, and mannions pub was a infamous for its heavyweight lock-ins
I was not aware of this river but it seems I can walk mostly through woodland to its source in 40 minutes from where I live. Brill.
I randomly came across your channel this morning John and have become totally hooked! I have not stopped watching your videos all day long!
So incredibly well presented and so so so interesting!
John, yet again a fantastic walk. I've lived around this area for many years, this episode has been a real education for me, keep up the good work.
I read about this walk in the Londonist recently. On the to-do-list. But I'll do it the other way, from Highgate to Tottenham. Great video as usual John
Thank you 😊 live in Manor House. Just love watching your channel only just found you thank you. Loving every minute
I liked the squirrel at about 4:48 but I think you were busy looking elsewhere. Good to know that the river may one day live again.
Lovely to see you out in the Hale … walked out there back in November though the Walthamstow Wetlands and then mural hunting in Walthamstow , always fascinating to see another lost River of London , I feel we need to see you back on the London Loop soon ⭐️❤️
Love it John. I was born behind Gestetners, Tottenham Hale, Don't recognise the Hale anymore but still nice.
I truly enjoy your walks, more so when you're walking around the Borough I live in. Thank you xXx.
It could be that the estate concrete flowers are feeling off of the river Moselle, I am so glad that the people voted in favour of brightening the estate up now. 😃
I'm glad you got to see it above ground : )
Thanks, John. Your video made my day. Please keep up the good work. Much anticipated and appreciated.
Hey John I really enjoyed this walk and it's great you found above ground parts 😁
In-depth river analysis, John - bravura stuff! 👍
Beautiful and reflective walk for Londoner and more precisely a Haringay-er now living France. I was never really aware of the Moselle but will follow its path on one of my future London derives. Thanks John. Marvellous stuff!
Excellent walk John! My breakfast is always 10 times better when there's a video from you to watch with it. Cheers mate!
Such delight when the river appeared in the cemetery! I shared your joy. A great walk once again thank you.
We took the kids and the dog for a walk along the Hogsmill on Saturday, discovering the awesome mosaic under the railway bridge near Malden Manor. Collectively we managed to fish a football out of the river. My son fell in as part of the process, but it was worth it! He was very proud of himself. Thanks again for the inspiration.
Beautifully put together.
Thanks John.
Great video as always John 👍
To any visitor it would be just a ditch, but you certainly put us straight there. Thanks buddy
Great job again. John thanks.
Great walk again, anyone else see the squirrel?
Really enjoyed the story so far. 👍👍
Fantastic! Really enjoying these videos. 👍
Thanks William
Hi John, re. all your videos about the lost rivers of London (I've been watching for a year now), I wonder if the City of London ever considers opening up these rivers. I live in the city of The Hague in the Netherlands where in the last couple of years some of the culverted canals have been opened up. Soon, another stretch of culverted canal in my neighbourhood will be opened up as well in order to make the city more pleasant to live in. Open water acts as a cooling mechanism in hot weather and serves as a drainage system for extreme rainfall. In Amsterdam they are considering to do this as well, but they have been reluctant in the past. John, what are your thoughts on this? Thanks, Jolanda
What an amazing find, interesting that they are trying to bring the river out in the open again. I enjoyed the history of the buildings. Thank you John 💕🇦🇺
Brought back memories of playing Pooh sticks with my little sister where the cemetery alley crosses the Moselle. I can remember jumping over it in Lordship Lane Rec too. I expect it’s still open there too.
Very interesting walk along the course of The lost River of the Moselle.Loved the Historic Buildings on the way as well.Excellent video as always,John!!!
Thanks for this one, John.
Brilliant watch & informative as always John 👌🏾
Thanks Chanice
John, at 4:24 in Markfield park is "the spot" diy skatepark, which was built upon an old water treatment site, the channel beside it was part of that. That's what I was told by the principal builders there.
The department store you found was the old Burgess store. I remember it from my youth.
I think it was the Co-op. The Burgess store was a bit further south, now gone and replaced by Lidl or Aldi...
Made my day John : ...."bringing pain and disappointment to thousands" Well played sir, a worthy tribute to a small Middlesex outfit ;)
Thanks East Anglian - couldn’t resist a small jest
Love the 'Mannions' pub - there's a place called 'Mannion's Town' in Sligo, Ireland... hopefully a few Mannions left in London!
Lovely river !
It's lovely when you find one of the rivers, John. Thanks for the Sunday London walk. Interestingly, there is a Bruce Avenue in my neighbourhood here in Winnipeg and one of the houses on it, distinctive in the midst of late 1950s/early 1960s homes, is what we all call "Bruce Castle" - built a few decades earlier and in the style of a manor house, with an octagonal turret. It's about a kilometre from our local small river, Truro Creek. Lots of Scottish influence in our city.
loved todays video, you have traced so much of my family history!
Never heard of this one ! So cool xxx
John! How wonderful! I will savour this! I will watch this video sometime this week. And I am looking forward to this october. I will follow in your footsteps.