Thanks again Andy. when I started out, part-time doing it while working as a midwife full-time. I charged whatever the person I was working with earned and hour plus room hire (£5 an hour back then). It worked for me back then.
It was interesting seeing the period when Michael Neil started his coaching academy training. You knew who had been on it because they started charging £10k for their coaching. After meeting and seeing a few of these i realised 2 things: 1 You can make that if you spoke with ALOT of people ALOT of the time and you had that type of personality. 2 You can make that if you are already a 'somebody'. A year or so later when going back on these websites their prices were either dramatically lower or it was clear they weren't updating their site anymore, aka they went and got another job.
Excellent video Andy. I've consistently been accused of "devaluing" both myself and the industry by "undercharging", but if we're serious about wanting to help people then we have to recognise that those who need our help the most are often those who are least able to afford to pay for it. That said, my experience of offering free sessions is the same as yours - too many people don't show up or don't take it seriously. I've found the middle ground works best, along with having some flexibility in pricing, such as discounted rates for those on benefits. I've also had clients who I helped relatively cheaply who've voluntarily paid me back at a later date once they were back on their feet, so I find that a little goodwill goes a long way.
very refreshing to hear, and happy to join your 'army' in reclaiming the industry for providing authentic support for people. The 'rah rah' mob are incredibly disingenuous, albeit perhaps well meaning? This is exactly the right time for me to hear this message, as I've been a bit reclusive in marketing myself.
Sadly my NLP trainer told me that I have to charge lots otherwise the client won't get any change. I did mention that Jesus didn't charge and he seemed to get quite good change at times!!! I did a lot of sessions whereby people put what they could afford in the MIND charity box, this changed the dynamic and most got awesome change.
I used to allocate fridays for those who had low level income sources and found their appreciation and the effort they put into their work very heartwarming. When working in Ireland I used to also get paid in eggs and milk which was truly wonderful.
Great to see someone address the scumbags that are literally just looking to suck money from clients (even if they are delivering the goods - which I doubt) . I saw a recent programme on 'How to Get High Paying Clients' - grotesque. Some of the coaches I see and their marketing is utterly shameful. This isn't about scamming people - well it is for some - but the point for me is to coach people to enjoy their life more. That's everything. And also, if people think it's a rip off (which maybe it is) if they want to invest in themselves they need to pay for the time and expertise. Trouble is many people have zero clue about value for money. They'll happily piss away money on takeaways, cigs, clothes, alcohol and see coaching as too expensive.
I really like the "£1 session" idea. I might steal it. I've had the experience of some people whose sessions were being paid for not turning up, or taking the p*ss in other ways. Also had some whose sessions were being paid for by their employer, being very diligent (even though I'd never tell their employer anything). It's all about the frame.
Hey Andrew, I love this series and agree with much of what you've said, but I'd like to share a different perspective from the hypnosis world. In my area, I'm considered to be somewhat expensive on a per-session basis, which means that I charge around as much as a psychologist or a junior-level lawyer. Like a lawyer or psychologist, I have overhead costs to pay (like downtown rent) before I can take home any personal income at all. But unlike most professionals, the majority of my clients these days only incur two or three billable hours -- this means that I have to onboard 5 to 10 new clients every week just to be able to continue the work that I'm doing. When a client compares my rates to that of a therapist or life coach (who might incur 10, 20 or even 50+ billable hours), it's quite a lopsided, apples-to-oranges comparison. I've thought quite a lot about this conundrum, and my solution is to offer transparency through demonstrations on my TH-cam channel, and to provide a free written treatment plan along with my fee/timeline estimate (I also offer a money-back guarantee, but refunds are so infrequent that they're hardly a consideration). I really do believe that this is the best way for new clients to make an informed decision. In other words, a practitioner who charges an above-average hourly rate, or who wants to explain their work before quoting a fee, could be practising ethically and isn't just out to fleece their client. I hope to add my thoughts to the discussion so that practitioners who are in my situation don't feel singled out for being efficient with their clients' time.
It's a good point. Clients are typically getting 10 to 20 sessions from me, so I only need to bring on about 1 new client a week. And (cough) psychoanalysts whose clients get literally hundreds of sessions, need about one or two new clients a year.
Referring to someone who can pay a lot of money as a "high-value" client is beyond nauseating to me. Basing someone's value on what they can pay screams of elitism. Not to mention, most of the people that I know who have this whole "people choose what they spend money on" mentality when it comes to their clients, actually have very few therapy clients, and more fellow therapist "clients" that they are teaching how to make money. I call them Mary Kay therapists. The vast majority of them have spouses or partners who have high paying jobs. I'd love to get more clients and I know that I couldn't afford me out of pocket. Also, when someone gets better, my income goes down. I could keep them ill, so I can pay my bills, but that smells like fraud, because it is.
I used to train practitioners and trainers but don't wish to do that any more, my heart feels drawn to helping those who are struggling with everything that is going on, enable a return to authenticity and connection with intuition, and make that my main focus. Its the average person trying to get by with a good heart and desire to put things right that are suffering from the rogues and cosmetic therapists. Quote. "It is no measure of success to become well adjusted to a sick society" J Krisnamurti. I think that this shallow "cosmetic" therapeutic approach is doing just that. They, perhaps unwittingly are actually aiding adjustment into this mess. Peoples pain is a message that what is going on around them isn't healthy or right, so to get rid of the messenger is dumbing society down. To have a little emotional therapeutic grooming to feel better in this crazy world isn't helping the clients one bit, its a temporary band aid and nothing more.Right beside you Andy!
I used to have a therapy office in my home and that saved a great deal on outgoings. The design of my home made this possible with separate entrance etc and this is not always possible these days. Online is free of office costs and is the next best thing as we have the current social uncertainty.
I completely agree with you, although I do a lot of work for free, and feel very happy doing so, as I get results with the client regardless of if they pay or not. Becauae they are normally people I already know, I don't have the issue with not turning up, so £1 sessions are a good idea for the future. The irony of watching this video and getting an advert for Marisa Peers RTT training course in the middle... 🤣
I agree with you Andy, however in my view 'one way' is not a relationship. I ask for a donation (which goes to a charity I support) on the 1st taster session then agree a fee with the client but they set the fee in line with what they can afford and how much they want to sort out. I also offer a money back guarantee and not had to refund anyone so far. I quit nursing because I realised I was not helping people get better. I am now only interested in the people who really need and want help, not cosmetic therapy as you call it and love that description. (I hope you won't mind me using it).
What to charge? Years ago I never put my fees up for a "little old lady" type patient thinking she wouldn't go on for long. I reckon she lived to 150 and was somehow still paying 10 shillings and sixpence in 2005. So much for me earning a six figure income! :)
How do you find the balance between earning the living for yourself and your own family and helping those in need? I love what I do and would gladly work more with £1 clients. How do I pay my own bills then?
I saw an advert this week from a U.K. based NLP trainer, advertising a 3 hour coaching session for £2.5k or the full 8 hour “breakthrough” session for £10k!! Your comment about the wealthy clients with cosmetic problems really resonated, I call them the worried well.
I suspect most of these people never get anyone to pay that price, it's a branding exercise only for them to establish a reputation for being expensive.
All these fancy coaches, they can't handle my problems or my questions. That's why I decided to do courses myself. And now I want to elevate the coaching standards in my country. At the moment, the industry is full of quacks 🤣
Better Marketing for coaches Playlist: th-cam.com/play/PLYt4GdlVVi_H3zqsj8Rd1q98Ls-VBAuI5.html
I love this!
I love the comment after the Marisa Peer ad, nearly fell off my chair🤣
Again. Thank you!
Thanks again Andy. when I started out, part-time doing it while working as a midwife full-time. I charged whatever the person I was working with earned and hour plus room hire (£5 an hour back then). It worked for me back then.
I have been considering that option.
It was interesting seeing the period when Michael Neil started his coaching academy training. You knew who had been on it because they started charging £10k for their coaching. After meeting and seeing a few of these i realised 2 things:
1 You can make that if you spoke with ALOT of people ALOT of the time and you had that type of personality.
2 You can make that if you are already a 'somebody'.
A year or so later when going back on these websites their prices were either dramatically lower or it was clear they weren't updating their site anymore, aka they went and got another job.
Excellent video Andy. I've consistently been accused of "devaluing" both myself and the industry by "undercharging", but if we're serious about wanting to help people then we have to recognise that those who need our help the most are often those who are least able to afford to pay for it. That said, my experience of offering free sessions is the same as yours - too many people don't show up or don't take it seriously. I've found the middle ground works best, along with having some flexibility in pricing, such as discounted rates for those on benefits. I've also had clients who I helped relatively cheaply who've voluntarily paid me back at a later date once they were back on their feet, so I find that a little goodwill goes a long way.
Always happy to meet a fellow eastward traveler
Dear Andrew , thank you for sharing and your honest opinion, it’s just good to see something like this!
very refreshing to hear, and happy to join your 'army' in reclaiming the industry for providing authentic support for people. The 'rah rah' mob are incredibly disingenuous, albeit perhaps well meaning?
This is exactly the right time for me to hear this message, as I've been a bit reclusive in marketing myself.
Sadly my NLP trainer told me that I have to charge lots otherwise the client won't get any change. I did mention that Jesus didn't charge and he seemed to get quite good change at times!!! I did a lot of sessions whereby people put what they could afford in the MIND charity box, this changed the dynamic and most got awesome change.
ooh...i like that!
I used to allocate fridays for those who had low level income sources and found their appreciation and the effort they put into their work very heartwarming. When working in Ireland I used to also get paid in eggs and milk which was truly wonderful.
Great to see someone address the scumbags that are literally just looking to suck money from clients (even if they are delivering the goods - which I doubt) . I saw a recent programme on 'How to Get High Paying Clients' - grotesque.
Some of the coaches I see and their marketing is utterly shameful.
This isn't about scamming people - well it is for some - but the point for me is to coach people to enjoy their life more. That's everything.
And also, if people think it's a rip off (which maybe it is) if they want to invest in themselves they need to pay for the time and expertise. Trouble is many people have zero clue about value for money. They'll happily piss away money on takeaways, cigs, clothes, alcohol and see coaching as too expensive.
Thank you Andrew...well said.
I really like the "£1 session" idea. I might steal it. I've had the experience of some people whose sessions were being paid for not turning up, or taking the p*ss in other ways. Also had some whose sessions were being paid for by their employer, being very diligent (even though I'd never tell their employer anything). It's all about the frame.
Hey Andrew, I love this series and agree with much of what you've said, but I'd like to share a different perspective from the hypnosis world. In my area, I'm considered to be somewhat expensive on a per-session basis, which means that I charge around as much as a psychologist or a junior-level lawyer. Like a lawyer or psychologist, I have overhead costs to pay (like downtown rent) before I can take home any personal income at all. But unlike most professionals, the majority of my clients these days only incur two or three billable hours -- this means that I have to onboard 5 to 10 new clients every week just to be able to continue the work that I'm doing. When a client compares my rates to that of a therapist or life coach (who might incur 10, 20 or even 50+ billable hours), it's quite a lopsided, apples-to-oranges comparison.
I've thought quite a lot about this conundrum, and my solution is to offer transparency through demonstrations on my TH-cam channel, and to provide a free written treatment plan along with my fee/timeline estimate (I also offer a money-back guarantee, but refunds are so infrequent that they're hardly a consideration). I really do believe that this is the best way for new clients to make an informed decision. In other words, a practitioner who charges an above-average hourly rate, or who wants to explain their work before quoting a fee, could be practising ethically and isn't just out to fleece their client. I hope to add my thoughts to the discussion so that practitioners who are in my situation don't feel singled out for being efficient with their clients' time.
Thank you, these are good and very valid points.
It's a good point. Clients are typically getting 10 to 20 sessions from me, so I only need to bring on about 1 new client a week. And (cough) psychoanalysts whose clients get literally hundreds of sessions, need about one or two new clients a year.
Referring to someone who can pay a lot of money as a "high-value" client is beyond nauseating to me. Basing someone's value on what they can pay screams of elitism. Not to mention, most of the people that I know who have this whole "people choose what they spend money on" mentality when it comes to their clients, actually have very few therapy clients, and more fellow therapist "clients" that they are teaching how to make money. I call them Mary Kay therapists. The vast majority of them have spouses or partners who have high paying jobs.
I'd love to get more clients and I know that I couldn't afford me out of pocket. Also, when someone gets better, my income goes down. I could keep them ill, so I can pay my bills, but that smells like fraud, because it is.
When they get better ask them to do a testimonial for you or if they know someone who could do with your help and they can refer you.
I used to train practitioners and trainers but don't wish to do that any more, my heart feels drawn to helping those who are struggling with everything that is going on, enable a return to authenticity and connection with intuition, and make that my main focus. Its the average person trying to get by with a good heart and desire to put things right that are suffering from the rogues and cosmetic therapists.
Quote. "It is no measure of success to become well adjusted to a sick society" J Krisnamurti. I think that this shallow "cosmetic" therapeutic approach is doing just that. They, perhaps unwittingly are actually aiding adjustment into this mess. Peoples pain is a message that what is going on around them isn't healthy or right, so to get rid of the messenger is dumbing society down. To have a little emotional therapeutic grooming to feel better in this crazy world isn't helping the clients one bit, its a temporary band aid and nothing more.Right beside you Andy!
I used to have a therapy office in my home and that saved a great deal on outgoings. The design of my home made this possible with separate entrance etc and this is not always possible these days. Online is free of office costs and is the next best thing as we have the current social uncertainty.
Thanks, going to review my price list!
I completely agree with you, although I do a lot of work for free, and feel very happy doing so, as I get results with the client regardless of if they pay or not. Becauae they are normally people I already know, I don't have the issue with not turning up, so £1 sessions are a good idea for the future.
The irony of watching this video and getting an advert for Marisa Peers RTT training course in the middle... 🤣
I agree with you Andy, however in my view 'one way' is not a relationship. I ask for a donation (which goes to a charity I support) on the 1st taster session then agree a fee with the client but they set the fee in line with what they can afford and how much they want to sort out. I also offer a money back guarantee and not had to refund anyone so far. I quit nursing because I realised I was not helping people get better. I am now only interested in the people who really need and want help, not cosmetic therapy as you call it and love that description. (I hope you won't mind me using it).
(Sound of phone ringing). "Hello, is that the international success institute?" "No, this is his mum".
What to charge? Years ago I never put my fees up for a "little old lady" type patient thinking she wouldn't go on for long. I reckon she lived to 150 and was somehow still paying 10 shillings and sixpence in 2005. So much for me earning a six figure income! :)
How do you find the balance between earning the living for yourself and your own family and helping those in need? I love what I do and would gladly work more with £1 clients. How do I pay my own bills then?
I saw an advert this week from a U.K. based NLP trainer, advertising a 3 hour coaching session for £2.5k or the full 8 hour “breakthrough” session for £10k!!
Your comment about the wealthy clients with cosmetic problems really resonated, I call them the worried well.
I suspect most of these people never get anyone to pay that price, it's a branding exercise only for them to establish a reputation for being expensive.
who lol
@@markharris4659 let’s just say he likes rocking a black t-shirt and his surname has an association with a certain farm animal :)
@@jamiebeaumont4489 lol
still don't know but cool. you ok mate?
@@markharris4659 you do, he’s from the Tad James side of things. I’m ok buddy :)
"The walking Dead" or "The Walking Worried"
I can't be a coach - I can't afford the teeth!
All these fancy coaches, they can't handle my problems or my questions. That's why I decided to do courses myself. And now I want to elevate the coaching standards in my country. At the moment, the industry is full of quacks 🤣