Cwic Media did a great video on this topic. His guest believes Joseph Smith never used the seer stone to translate the Book of Mormon, only the U and T.
It makes sense how mediums and shamans would cast stones to divine future events or read crystal balls to do the same... In my opinion it's perversion of the original items men of the priesthood used
I was told/taught about 5 decades ago that Satan has his counterfeit/perversions to all of the tools which were used (and are used?) by the Prophets. It probably makes better sense that the tools of the Prophets came first, followed by Satan's counterfeits.
It is quite clear from Oliver Cowdry's experience that the user does not simply "Read" words in their language on the stones but requires preparation, thought and learning to use them.
Thank you Lord Jesus. Thank you that I couldn’t nor would have been able to keep up with your Law. You are Holy, and I see why the Israelites, nor any human could not keep or fulfill the Law. I thank you that you Christ Jesus came to fulfill the Law perfectly for me. Thank you that you paid for my guilt and bore the Father’s wrath for me, that I may now be righteous because of you.
Thank you for sharing your videos. I love that you talk sensibly about things that can either get very speculative, or on the other hand make people feel uncomfortable because it is "different." I think we shouldn't be afraid of speaking of what we do know, even if it feels uncomfortable that we don't have all the answers around the topic.
The idea of "Great Urim & Thummim" being made from a celestialized Earth, and every celestial soul being granted their own, makes me feel like these are conduits of divine glory/grace. The Great ones may relate to being instruments of higher authority, with Earth becoming like Christ's throne, whereas the Father has his (Kolob/near it)
It's always so interesting to learn about these sorts of things! It makes me want to learn more about different topics and put more time into my scripture study.
Don Bradley talks about an account that was given of the lost 116 pages that Joseph Smith Sr. Gave that talks about how the first King Mosiah finds the Urim and Thummim in the wilderness, by following the Liahona to their location. He then takes the U/T to their tabernacle and God commands him to put them into an animal skin and look into them and he can see everything. I may have butchered some things but that's the gist of the story.
I heard that too. Gives a little more context to the use of an animal-skinned hat while Joseph translated. What I would give to be able to read the book of Lehi!
@@MichaelGMoney I have only heard Don speak on it. Actually I heard him before his book was published, and you just reminded me that I wanted to pick up his book! :).
@@soneedanap I love Lehi! My father dwelt in a tent. That verse hit me hard. Lehi came from money and he was well off. He left everything and dwelt in a tent for us to have the book of Mormon today. I love Lehi for gis obedience and true concern for us.
I believe that Urim and Thumim are quantum lenses. There is a principle in theoretical physics called Conservation of Information that in simple terms means that all information is recorded at the quantum level of the universe. Another principle is human consciousness creates a quantum record. So for example your hard drive that got erased is not truly erased. The information is still there at the quantum level. You just need the ability to access it. This explains why Joseph didn't need to look directly at the plates to access the information therein. He just needed them for a frame of reference. The notion that we will have our own seer stones in the millennium is a compelling thought because it implies a democratization of information in Zion as opposed to artificial intelligence tyranny of information in Babylon. We are on the verge of total dependence on artificial intelligence for understanding of the universe and moral Judgment. This is a centralized model for information distribution. This is tyranny of information. Imagine if all (and all were righteous) had their own seer stones. AI would be obsolete. We could learn the laws and functions of the universe in very short oder. Free energy harness and utilization would be discovered. Ailments would be cured. And faster than light travel and communication would be possible. This is what we have to look forward to in the millennium.
I like this 👌 it fits into my "God is a technologically advanced being that has access to differing dimensional levels" narrative. It's not the only narrative bouncing around in my empty brain, mind you.
@@MichaelGMoney This has baked my noodle for a while. My thoughts are that the celestial and terrestrial kingdoms are aspects of the superverse, which is eternal. God has aligned himself perfectly with light, truth, and love. And His design is to have as many as will to learn this path. This universe is a telestial kingdom. It's a temporary dwelling that has a preprogrammed termination. Once you're in you are part of it and you cannot get back out unless you have the key back. That is the power in Jesus Christ. He holds the key. And you can only get out of the telestial kingdom through Him. Imagine the technology of a civilization that creates whole universes! That's our civilization! We're here on a vision quest to discover what's really in our core. But understanding this means you DO NOT want to be left behind in the telestial kingdom!
Really interesting...I had no idea dentistry was so advanced. What if a number 14 had so much gingival carries on the facial that the doctor had to lay the buckle margin down on the trifurcation would that be possible😅
I find it interesting that science is catching up with magickal concepts, real magick not movie fantasy magic. As far as the Urim and Thumim, I would suspect its the same concept that is throughout scripture, what matters is what is within us, our hearts, that matters, not some physical object. What matters is our walk with and our emulation of our Savior.
For more information on the use of the Urim & Thummim to translate the Book of Mormon, see the new book by Lucas and Neville, "By Means of the Urim & Thummim: Restoring Translation to the Restoration."
Thank you for the video. I engorged enjoyed it. Studying the artifacts of our religion adds an interesting dimension to gospel study. The points you make here, about the Urim and Thummim being used in different times and places, show the consistency of God, and His influence on- and love for - his people. I don't see why there couldn't be two sets of U&T. There's more than one set of records kept, and His people were led away in separate groups to different parts of the "vineyard".
Joseph used the Moroni provided stones and glasses but they were very difficult to use because of the size and not fitting on his face/head. He used those items until the loss of the 116 pages. Moroni took everything away for a bit and only returned the plates, by which Joseph used his own seer stones to interpret. By that point he had no more need to look through the clear Urim and Thummim stones at the writing on the plates as he had figured out how to receive revelation with the use of the others. Thus from that point on the plates could remain on the table, covered, or in a different room, and Joseph put his seer stone in his hat to block out light, similar to what he did prior, cornering off a room with a blanket to blacken out an area so he could see the glowing words as they would appear through the stones. Read Don Bradly's new book "The Lost 116 Pages". It is the best researched and accurate account I think.
@@Flintlock1776 Well, with that attitude and sarcasm, you will miss out continually. Or change your attitude and give it a ligit shot and invite the missionaries over and experience a miracle of spiritual growth and understanding. God bless.
@@papasteph3226 LoL. You're right, of course. I'll miss out on sacrificing 10 percent of my income and 100 percent of my critical faculties to a book and organization that are both demonstrably untrue. I'll miss out on participating in a massive con. I'll miss out on magic underwear. I'll miss participating in creepy cult ceremonies that are plagiarized from the Masons. How will I ever survive this condition of deprivation? Yes, please, send your 19 year old elders with their starched white shirts and take-my-lunch-money haircuts to my house for a discussion. It will take me about 20 minutes to show them that they've been completely brainwashed and that it is they, not I, who is missing out.
Thank you so much for sharing the gospel with us. I think it is important for us to know the truths of it. The Lord wants us to study and learn about his kingdom and to add to our knowledge line upon line.
I have a piece of petrified wood I found in the creek behind my house in Riverton Nebraska it looks it has some of the barki s still on. Maybe it could be shaped the same as Joseph's.
I don't know if it's still out there but some years ago I saw a video filmed in Ethiopia at the church that supposed to contain the Ark of the Covenant. They said they couldn't show the Ark but brought out an ancient Urim & Thummim. I was absolutely thrilled to be able to see it! It may have been one of the few mentioned in the Bible!
I've always been interested in the specific jobs of each of the 12 tribes but I haven't found any good resources. Can you help with that whether it be a video or some references?
Thank you! David ben Jesse, the famous king David used it, calling it "the ephod", meaning the whole garment where the brassplate and the U&T were fastened, to ask the Lord about military strategies. 1 Samuel 30: 7.
Why not mention the size of the spectacles? Eye witnesses say they were very large. So big Joseph could only look through one of the lens at a time (see Wikipedia entry on the matter which has sources ) You said eariler that he did use the urim and thumin for the first 116 pages of the BoM then backpeddle and saw he only used the seer stone later in the video. Great videos, these concepts I mentioned were either not clearly stated. Would you be willing to make an ammendment?
Ive read this also. Which leads me to think ancient users like adam, noah, brother of jared were very large men in stature. Jaradite bones excavated from mounds were 9ft in size.
I find it unlikely that the Urim & Thummim were looked through like glasses but, considering Lucy Smith's description, it's clear where we could have come up with that idea. I think many of the tools of "peeping wizards" are inspired by tools of prophets but, when the user lacks the power of priesthood, those tools open the user to darker influences. In this case, I think the Urim & Thummim are used to gain insight and see events similar to how crystal balls are depicted in popular culture but are only usable to someone with authority who is worthy.
Because that wouldn’t bring true conversion. Just like how people who take interest in the gospel through miracles and signs usually don’t stay when the adversary’s testing comes. It would be better for those people to have not made covenants than to make the covenants and turn from them and break them. The Lord doesn’t want a quota, he wants people who willingly surrender there will to God and chose to follow his law and become like him.
I lean towards the idea that there are multiple urim and thummims and that the urim and thummim given to the brother of Jared was different than the one that Moses had
I have wondered about this also. Because one set of U&T is with the ark of the covenant and other israeli tabernacle and temple items so is that the same set j smith was given to use and then returned or another set?
I think that God could have only made one German and it could have traveled through Angels or through man but honestly the one that makes the most sense is a continental one given to the brother of Jared one given to Abraham but with God anything is possible they could have each had their own personal set for all we know. Anyway thank you for all your hard work I know there must be a lot of preparation for one of these videos and you do a wonderful job thank you again
so just leave the plates in the stone box an grab the stone, that way you can fight off the men waiting in ambush, with guns, that have the drop on you, the guys that know where you stay, it was a nuisance the plates as I recall Emma shifting them in the kitchen a few times, so she can make cheese scones. that way God can take everything back up to Heaven as its told plus the stone box, an all the buried artifacts around the hill. Simple explanations need simple solutions, an vice versa.
When you say "we" put together the Gospel Learning app, are you part of the CES? I thought this app was from Taylor and Tyler for some reason. Just trying to connect the dots here.
LDS Church Thanks 🙏☮️🕊️🕉️🏳️👍😊 so much for the LDS Kids Animated Scripture Lesson Video 📷📸 The Ant And The Very Big Rock. Heavenly Father and His Son Jesus Christ and The Sweetest Holy Spirit And the Angels In Heaven 😇 really understand what I'm going through unconditionally ❤️🤩😍🥰🌹😘💕💜.
Ezra 2:63 [63]And the Tirshatha said vnto them, that they should not eate of the most holy things, till there stood vp a priest with Urim & with Thummim. Nehemiah 7:65 [65]And the Tirshatha said vnto them, that they should not eate of the most holy things, till there stood vp a priest with Urim and Thummim. 1 Esdras 5:40 [40]For vnto them said Nehemias, and Atharias, that they should not be partakers of the holy things, till there arose vp an high Priest, clothed with Doctrine and Trueth. The high priest is Jesus Christ. He is the doctrine/ Urim/ the way and the truth/Thummim It was the stones in the breastplate of the priest.
I find your portrayal misleading. Joseph Smith's peep stones were not called the "Urim and Thummim" until WW Phelps called out the similarities. You're conflating Joseph's stone/stones with the "Nephite Interpreters" which were too large for a normal sized man to use. The Nephite Interpreters were not used for the Book of Mormon. You're dodging the fact that Joseph had--and exclusively used--his own stones to "translate" (scry) the Book of Mormon.
Cwic Media did a great video on this topic. His guest believes Joseph Smith never used the seer stone to translate the Book of Mormon, only the U and T.
This must be true; otherwise, according to scripture, God Himself would be a liar. And if He did lie, He would cease to be God.
It makes sense how mediums and shamans would cast stones to divine future events or read crystal balls to do the same... In my opinion it's perversion of the original items men of the priesthood used
I was told/taught about 5 decades ago that Satan has his counterfeit/perversions to all of the tools which were used (and are used?) by the Prophets. It probably makes better sense that the tools of the Prophets came first, followed by Satan's counterfeits.
@@cwakamatsu It makes sense. That’s probably why the dark side has such a strong hold on the power/money in the world.
Didn't Saul go to a witch who had a seer stone because he lost the ability to use the U and T?
Everyone else has such useful comments, haha, but I just want to say thank you! I look forward to and love every video of yours.
It is quite clear from Oliver Cowdry's experience that the user does not simply "Read" words in their language on the stones but requires preparation, thought and learning to use them.
Thank you Lord Jesus. Thank you that I couldn’t nor would have been able to keep up with your Law. You are Holy, and I see why the Israelites, nor any human could not keep or fulfill the Law. I thank you that you Christ Jesus came to fulfill the Law perfectly for me. Thank you that you paid for my guilt and bore the Father’s wrath for me, that I may now be righteous because of you.
Thank you for sharing your videos. I love that you talk sensibly about things that can either get very speculative, or on the other hand make people feel uncomfortable because it is "different." I think we shouldn't be afraid of speaking of what we do know, even if it feels uncomfortable that we don't have all the answers around the topic.
The idea of "Great Urim & Thummim" being made from a celestialized Earth, and every celestial soul being granted their own, makes me feel like these are conduits of divine glory/grace. The Great ones may relate to being instruments of higher authority, with Earth becoming like Christ's throne, whereas the Father has his (Kolob/near it)
It's always so interesting to learn about these sorts of things! It makes me want to learn more about different topics and put more time into my scripture study.
Great video! Good information, clear delineation when you're making assumptions and guesses.
Urim and Thummim is basically God’s IPhone 😂
Our phones are similar to the U/T only in a corrupt form.
Don Bradley talks about an account that was given of the lost 116 pages that Joseph Smith Sr. Gave that talks about how the first King Mosiah finds the Urim and Thummim in the wilderness, by following the Liahona to their location. He then takes the U/T to their tabernacle and God commands him to put them into an animal skin and look into them and he can see everything. I may have butchered some things but that's the gist of the story.
I heard that too. Gives a little more context to the use of an animal-skinned hat while Joseph translated. What I would give to be able to read the book of Lehi!
@@soneedanap you and me both! Have you read Don Bradley's book on the 116 pages? Absolutely fascinating
@@MichaelGMoney I have only heard Don speak on it. Actually I heard him before his book was published, and you just reminded me that I wanted to pick up his book! :).
@@soneedanap I love Lehi! My father dwelt in a tent. That verse hit me hard. Lehi came from money and he was well off. He left everything and dwelt in a tent for us to have the book of Mormon today. I love Lehi for gis obedience and true concern for us.
@@scottbrandon6244 Can you expound on that? I am not sure I am catching your point.
I believe that Urim and Thumim are quantum lenses. There is a principle in theoretical physics called Conservation of Information that in simple terms means that all information is recorded at the quantum level of the universe. Another principle is human consciousness creates a quantum record. So for example your hard drive that got erased is not truly erased. The information is still there at the quantum level. You just need the ability to access it. This explains why Joseph didn't need to look directly at the plates to access the information therein. He just needed them for a frame of reference.
The notion that we will have our own seer stones in the millennium is a compelling thought because it implies a democratization of information in Zion as opposed to artificial intelligence tyranny of information in Babylon.
We are on the verge of total dependence on artificial intelligence for understanding of the universe and moral Judgment. This is a centralized model for information distribution. This is tyranny of information.
Imagine if all (and all were righteous) had their own seer stones. AI would be obsolete. We could learn the laws and functions of the universe in very short oder. Free energy harness and utilization would be discovered. Ailments would be cured. And faster than light travel and communication would be possible. This is what we have to look forward to in the millennium.
I like this 👌 it fits into my "God is a technologically advanced being that has access to differing dimensional levels" narrative. It's not the only narrative bouncing around in my empty brain, mind you.
@@MichaelGMoney This has baked my noodle for a while. My thoughts are that the celestial and terrestrial kingdoms are aspects of the superverse, which is eternal. God has aligned himself perfectly with light, truth, and love. And His design is to have as many as will to learn this path.
This universe is a telestial kingdom. It's a temporary dwelling that has a preprogrammed termination. Once you're in you are part of it and you cannot get back out unless you have the key back. That is the power in Jesus Christ. He holds the key. And you can only get out of the telestial kingdom through Him.
Imagine the technology of a civilization that creates whole universes! That's our civilization! We're here on a vision quest to discover what's really in our core. But understanding this means you DO NOT want to be left behind in the telestial kingdom!
Really interesting...I had no idea dentistry was so advanced. What if a number 14 had so much gingival carries on the facial that the doctor had to lay the buckle margin down on the trifurcation would that be possible😅
@@IBNED 😄😁
I find it interesting that science is catching up with magickal concepts, real magick not movie fantasy magic. As far as the Urim and Thumim, I would suspect its the same concept that is throughout scripture, what matters is what is within us, our hearts, that matters, not some physical object. What matters is our walk with and our emulation of our Savior.
For more information on the use of the Urim & Thummim to translate the Book of Mormon, see the new book by Lucas and Neville, "By Means of the Urim & Thummim: Restoring Translation to the Restoration."
Thank you for the video. I engorged enjoyed it. Studying the artifacts of our religion adds an interesting dimension to gospel study. The points you make here, about the Urim and Thummim being used in different times and places, show the consistency of God, and His influence on- and love for - his people. I don't see why there couldn't be two sets of U&T. There's more than one set of records kept, and His people were led away in separate groups to different parts of the "vineyard".
You explain the gospel that helps me so much! Thank you.
When they said the Urim and Thummin were in a bow, I always they meant a bow-and-arrow bow. I couldn't picture that.
Cupids bow
Another fantastic video!!! Thank you!
Thank you for time and wisdom to make this video.
Joseph used the Moroni provided stones and glasses but they were very difficult to use because of the size and not fitting on his face/head. He used those items until the loss of the 116 pages. Moroni took everything away for a bit and only returned the plates, by which Joseph used his own seer stones to interpret. By that point he had no more need to look through the clear Urim and Thummim stones at the writing on the plates as he had figured out how to receive revelation with the use of the others. Thus from that point on the plates could remain on the table, covered, or in a different room, and Joseph put his seer stone in his hat to block out light, similar to what he did prior, cornering off a room with a blanket to blacken out an area so he could see the glowing words as they would appear through the stones. Read Don Bradly's new book "The Lost 116 Pages". It is the best researched and accurate account I think.
Magic rocks in farm hats. Yea. That sounds completely ligit. Sign me up.
@@Flintlock1776 Well, with that attitude and sarcasm, you will miss out continually. Or change your attitude and give it a ligit shot and invite the missionaries over and experience a miracle of spiritual growth and understanding. God bless.
@@papasteph3226
LoL. You're right, of course. I'll miss out on sacrificing 10 percent of my income and 100 percent of my critical faculties to a book and organization that are both demonstrably untrue. I'll miss out on participating in a massive con. I'll miss out on magic underwear. I'll miss participating in creepy cult ceremonies that are plagiarized from the Masons. How will I ever survive this condition of deprivation?
Yes, please, send your 19 year old elders with their starched white shirts and take-my-lunch-money haircuts to my house for a discussion. It will take me about 20 minutes to show them that they've been completely brainwashed and that it is they, not I, who is missing out.
Thank you so much for sharing the gospel with us. I think it is important for us to know the truths of it. The Lord wants us to study and learn about his kingdom and to add to our knowledge line upon line.
😊
I have a piece of petrified wood I found in the creek behind my house in Riverton Nebraska it looks it has some of the barki s still on. Maybe it could be shaped the same as Joseph's.
Well done Kevin. Thanks
If I were to come across one, would it work hypothetically?
actually, ether 3:23 does say that the 2 stones were given to The brother of Jared by Jesus Christ.
I don't know if it's still out there but some years ago I saw a video filmed in Ethiopia at the church that supposed to contain the Ark of the Covenant. They said they couldn't show the Ark but brought out an ancient Urim & Thummim. I was absolutely thrilled to be able to see it! It may have been one of the few mentioned in the Bible!
I'm curious to know if theirs looked similar to what is described in this video?
I've always been interested in the specific jobs of each of the 12 tribes but I haven't found any good resources. Can you help with that whether it be a video or some references?
Who is brother of Jared? Could someone explain to me please?
Refer to the book of mormon,,,book of Ether.
Interesting stuff!👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
Thank you! David ben Jesse, the famous king David used it, calling it "the ephod", meaning the whole garment where the brassplate and the U&T were fastened, to ask the Lord about military strategies. 1 Samuel 30: 7.
I would love to see your collection of thoughts on possibilities of the mark of the beast and how it effects the persecution of the saints.
Me, too.
Me three
Great info. (as usual)
I enjoyed your blog but did not approve of your comments that were not based on fact like we do not need Urim and Thumbin now
Why not mention the size of the spectacles? Eye witnesses say they were very large. So big Joseph could only look through one of the lens at a time (see Wikipedia entry on the matter which has sources )
You said eariler that he did use the urim and thumin for the first 116 pages of the BoM then backpeddle and saw he only used the seer stone later in the video.
Great videos, these concepts I mentioned were either not clearly stated. Would you be willing to make an ammendment?
Ive read this also. Which leads me to think ancient users like adam, noah, brother of jared were very large men in stature. Jaradite bones excavated from mounds were 9ft in size.
I find it unlikely that the Urim & Thummim were looked through like glasses but, considering Lucy Smith's description, it's clear where we could have come up with that idea. I think many of the tools of "peeping wizards" are inspired by tools of prophets but, when the user lacks the power of priesthood, those tools open the user to darker influences. In this case, I think the Urim & Thummim are used to gain insight and see events similar to how crystal balls are depicted in popular culture but are only usable to someone with authority who is worthy.
I find it unlikely blah blah blah
There is always a counterfeit used by the adversary. There’s got to be conduits out there used today by the dark side.
Thank you.
It works with the eyes,the crystal being activated by the human body when it is worked with the mind and heart
It's found and it is in use
the answer is , that Urmin &Thurman were passed down from generation to generation ,according to the scriptures,and that's good enough for me
The answer is,,,, you need to learn how to spell these things first. Lol 😂
Saul referred to them for going into battle
ty
Thankyou
❤❤
Why don't you let us see this device? Put it on display in the shopping mall for all to see. That will shut up the na sayers!
Because that wouldn’t bring true conversion. Just like how people who take interest in the gospel through miracles and signs usually don’t stay when the adversary’s testing comes. It would be better for those people to have not made covenants than to make the covenants and turn from them and break them. The Lord doesn’t want a quota, he wants people who willingly surrender there will to God and chose to follow his law and become like him.
I lean towards the idea that there are multiple urim and thummims and that the urim and thummim given to the brother of Jared was different than the one that Moses had
I have wondered about this also. Because one set of U&T is with the ark of the covenant and other israeli tabernacle and temple items so is that the same set j smith was given to use and then returned or another set?
I think that God could have only made one German and it could have traveled through Angels or through man but honestly the one that makes the most sense is a continental one given to the brother of Jared one given to Abraham but with God anything is possible they could have each had their own personal set for all we know. Anyway thank you for all your hard work I know there must be a lot of preparation for one of these videos and you do a wonderful job thank you again
so just leave the plates in the stone box an grab the stone, that way you can fight off the men waiting in ambush, with guns, that have the drop on you, the guys that know where you stay, it was a nuisance the plates as I recall Emma shifting them in the kitchen a few times, so she can make cheese scones. that way God can take everything back up to Heaven as its told plus the stone box, an all the buried artifacts around the hill. Simple explanations need simple solutions, an vice versa.
Sorry. I have no time for people who claim divine revelation via magic rocks.
When you say "we" put together the Gospel Learning app, are you part of the CES? I thought this app was from Taylor and Tyler for some reason. Just trying to connect the dots here.
I built the app, Book of Mormon Central (Taylor and Tyler and the rest) allowed me to use their content. CES has nothing to do with it.
LDS Church Thanks 🙏☮️🕊️🕉️🏳️👍😊 so much for the LDS Kids Animated Scripture Lesson Video 📷📸 The Ant And The Very Big Rock. Heavenly Father and His Son Jesus Christ and The Sweetest Holy Spirit And the Angels In Heaven 😇 really understand what I'm going through unconditionally ❤️🤩😍🥰🌹😘💕💜.
th-cam.com/video/-U_tL4SxP3g/w-d-xo.html
Ezra 2:63
[63]And the Tirshatha said vnto them, that they should not eate of the most holy things, till there stood vp a priest with Urim & with Thummim.
Nehemiah 7:65
[65]And the Tirshatha said vnto them, that they should not eate of the most holy things, till there stood vp a priest with Urim and Thummim.
1 Esdras 5:40
[40]For vnto them said Nehemias, and Atharias, that they should not be partakers of the holy things, till there arose vp an high Priest, clothed with Doctrine and Trueth.
The high priest is Jesus Christ. He is the doctrine/ Urim/ the way and the truth/Thummim
It was the stones in the breastplate of the priest.
😀
❤️
Urim and Thumim and Seers stones, and Breastplate stones are all means to transmit information from God to the high priest.
👍👍
I find your portrayal misleading. Joseph Smith's peep stones were not called the "Urim and Thummim" until WW Phelps called out the similarities. You're conflating Joseph's stone/stones with the "Nephite Interpreters" which were too large for a normal sized man to use. The Nephite Interpreters were not used for the Book of Mormon. You're dodging the fact that Joseph had--and exclusively used--his own stones to "translate" (scry) the Book of Mormon.
I covered that all in a previous video:. th-cam.com/video/amGVHecmPA0/w-d-xo.html
Whatever
He did not use the Urim. We all now know that he used a Seer Stone placed in a hat.
Brother, your video on the breastplate is unfindable, I put "gospel lessons breastplate" in the searcheion and it returns nothing from your channel
👍❤️