Why Dr. Peter Attia Changed His Mind About Saunas | The Tim Ferriss Show
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Whether or not it helps with longevity is not as important for me, it makes my pain from commuting (hips and low back) and soreness from training (kettlebell and rucking) just melt away. And it helps me sleep at night.
I live in finland , every house and apartment has a sauna, we go to the sauna all the time. Sauna is a place to relax, feel warm, wash and socialize
I was going to say.. pretty sure the Studies out of Finland clarified that the average Household has roughly access to 1.8 Saunas, so it's not like it's only for the Elite or Wealthy.. bit of a dishonest statement on Attia's part or perhaps he simply isn't aware of that. In the US some places have them that aren't super expensive like the YMCA, but in some places in the US generally it is Wealthy well off people.
Yea, I think he was referring to the US. Only saunas here are at gyms, sad
Everyone move to Finland, we have a plenty of empty space and saunas in most apartments.
@@capri2673 it’s a Nordic country, of course they are.
Perhaps a place to spend the summers to escape the heat?
It's a good idea. I think Sweden has slightly better immigration policy for Americans starting with $100k investment in a Swedish business. Denmark and Finland are more difficult to immigrate to, if I recall. If I'm wrong, do let me know.
Lol or just buy one for a couple grand
Give us citizenships and we will.
So stoked because my local gym is going to install a traditional sauna!! They had infra red before but there's no denying the benefits of high heat sauna rooms!
Traditional saunas ARE generated by roughly 40-60% infrared, as in, far infrared (FIR). When one just says “infrared” that’s referring to far infrared. Then there’s also near infrared, which is a visible red light, but that doesn’t penetrate at a cellular level like far infrared.
A sauna is useless without infrared. Then it’s not even a sauna. Far infrared, or infrared, is the most healing wavelength of light (albeit invisible light). So if your gym says they are installing a sauna that doesn’t have infrared, either they don’t know what they’re talking about or it’s just a steam room which wouldn’t be as healing as an infrared sauna… or it’s just a room with a heater which would be absolutely preposterous. And infrared/traditional saunas don’t produce steam so this doesn’t make any sense.
The (FAR) INFRARED is exactly what you need from a sauna! The higher the percentage, the more healing it will be!
I sauna 3-5 time a week, as much as possible. Ever since I came back from Estonia in 2019 doing a retreat/training class there where we did sauna often I've been hooked. Since then watched TONS of videos on it from Rogan, Dr. Rhonda Patrick, and many other channels. All I know is since then I've added in Wim Hof's cold immersion and breathing and just those two alone have gotten my neck, shoulders and arms shredded... So I keep these as a constant, and mix it up with my weekly weight lifting, cardio and rowing....whatever I can do. But Sauna is awesome, just wish I could do ice baths more often with my daily cold showers.
Given what you've said you're probably doing a near optimum frequency of cold immersion; doing more will actually adapt your body to the cold and reduce the efficacy of that tool.
i filled a chest freezer with water and it was a brutally cold dip tank....$400.00 u can have your cold baths...
Nowhere man
Sounds like your kickin butt to me, u go boss!
WHM took care of my chronic inflammation for more than 15 years. For 3 years now I am pain-free.
This was such a good podcast. Thank you.
From a far it looked like "Tim Ferris talks to Tim Ferris body double".
Watching on phone, i thought he’s going to ”talk to himaself about saunas”..
If you're not getting your fitness info from a bald guy then you need a new source
HAHAHAHAHAH
I bought my infra sauna in 2011. Over ten years ago. I have used it from 2-5 times a week since I bought it when I was in my late 30s. I know it has had a dramatic effect on my overall health. Undisputeable. I look around the same age as when I bought it, in my opinion to some degree thanks to the sauna. When I was 15 in 1987 I lost my leg above the knee to osteosarcoma. A rather rare type of bone cancer that’s generally strikes young boys in the ages of 13-18 years old. I underwent a year of chemotherapy and thAt had lifelong adverse health effects like loss of hearing, tinnitus, kidney damage, heart damage and more. Thankfully I feel real good today at 51 years old, and despite the chronic damage I work out strenuously 3-4 times a week and on non workout days do an hour to 75 minutes in the sauna at 55 degrees Celsius. It isn’t quite a miracle worker, but in my case close. The past decade I have been in dialysis due to the cisplatin chemo that damaged me in many ways. Fortunately I need not remove fluid while in dialysis because I get rid of excess water when in the sauna which has a dramatic effect on heart health. Dialysis is generally very hard on the body awhen you need to remove a lot of fluid because the kidney’s are no longer producing urine. Because the sauna removes this through sweat you can say for me or someone like me the sauna is indeed a miracle worker. Sweating is healthy and a normal way of ridding yourself of excess fluid and some toxins. Therefore I would never be without the sauna. If I skip a session or am lazy for a week or two I like other patients end to remove the fluid in treatment and feel so tired and the regular I’ll side effects of this treatment. I can’t recommend sauna strong enough for kidney failure patients. It can literally help save/ prolong your life and have you looking healthy.
Is your infared sauna built into your house or a portable that you sit inside?
@@Steve-ArfArf It is portable. 100% happy with it. Just plug in. Put on the heat and it’s ready in ten minutes. Been working well since 2011.
Same with me. I was an athlete before I had the Covid vaccines. My wife bought me a sauna and I think I must of sweat that junk out because now I’m able to work out again. I look good, my skin is nice. I’d say it’s a miracle worker, gave me my life back.
Losing your leg at 15 is horrible I'm sorry. So unlucky
Is yours the kind where you sit in it and your head sticks out? thanks
I've always wondered about the observational data from Finland, or at least how it is protrayed in US-based podcasts and articles: yes, we have probably more saunas per capita than anywhere else. But the reality is that most of them, private saunas, are used 0 to 1 times a week. Communal building saunas, like in my building, can be booked once a week, and again, only a small minority uses them (you need to pay extra).
Yes, we have saunas at public pools and gyms but it is still a small subset of the population that uses these utilities regularly and does sauna 3-4 times at week. The medium sauna visit for people in Finland is probably
A huge number of people in the first world have access to bathtubs and hot water though. I’d love to see them start to move toward a heat therapy model so people can get past thinking they need something fancy for this (unless miraculously proven only dry saunas provide benefits).
That last comment told me all i need to know about Mr Attia.
I laughed out loud faute de mieux.
There’s nothing like taking a plunge in a cold pool outside, right after coming out of steam room and in the middle of winter! I grew up in one of Scandinavian countries, there’s a culture of sauna, very common and accessible. Now I live in Canada, we have beautiful Nordic spa in Canadian Rockies👍 I also have infrared sauna blanket home👍 Sauna is not a health fad to me, it’s a must have integral of my wellbeing.
The thing is that everyone has a sauna in Finland it doesn't matter how much money you have you always have access to a sauna
correct
Wow
Also, in Finland, Iceland, Sweden and Norway many gyms have the sauna next to the changing rooms. You don't have to pay extra, you pay for the gym and as it includes showers it also includes saunas. I think that swimming pools include saunas as well next to the showers in the changing rooms.
First thing I thought.
@@wildesilv1048 Same in Ukraine
Thought I saw the title "Why Dr. Peter Attia Changed His Mind About Santas" lol
Hahahahaha. I may never stop laughing. Hilarious
'You know i've changed my mind about santa claus. I'm starting to think he's actually real'
“I believe now that the research on Christmas magic is just too strong to ignore.”
Sauna is the reason the finnish won in olympics right before everyone started doping. There is a lot of science back from 1920-1950 showning lots of benefits. We have them in many homes and all the gym here in sweden but everyone has forgotten how good they are the last 30years or so
Watching this in my sauna !
I just have to say, the intro beat slaps.
thanks
One of the best things I ever did was put a small sauna in my house. The wife and I sauna 4 to 5 times a week, we love it.
@@ConcedoNulli about $1500. We bought a kit from an outfit in Canada. That was 15 years ago.
Does it help with weight loss?
god i wish boomers didnt ruin the economy so i could do that too. i dream about not using command strips for everything
Very informative clip - I will be getting a sauna soon, based on this.
Thanks for another motivating discussion. I have been asking about this topic about degrees and duration. The hottest sauna I have found in the Bay Area is 155 at 24-hour fitness. Can I get the effects indicated if I go to 30 minutes instead of 20 at 175?
My cardiologist said no sauna for me due to my a-fib history. Not brought up on any literature I've seen until I went searching for it. Thanks Doc!
I have a sauna in my garden because of Rhonda Patrick's podcasts on the topic (and because it's one of the few things that are really relaxing for me). Before that used the sauna in the gym. I don't know if there's any research on it, but I believe Rhonda says hot baths also work. I take baths that are almost impossible to get into and that will definitely ramp up your temperature haha.
There is no scientific evidence whatsoever that hot baths have the same effect as sauna
During the Texas summer, I had no ac. I could feel my body sweat profusely all over. I normally don’t sweat. It was an aha moment. Clarity! Cleansed! My body was reacting to temperature and providing a tactile response. Now it’s colder and my body reflects another layer of change. The human body mechanism of change is amazing. What is the name of of the overall body signal triggers?
MOST EVERYTHING THAT INCREASES OUR STRESS, MAKES US STRONGER AND HEALTHIER.
200 DEGREES WILL STRESS US MORE THAN 175 AND DOING 20 MINUTES JUST ABOUT EVERY EVENING WILL IMPROVE SLEEP FOR MOST PEOPLE.
PETER IS CORRECT THAT THOSE WHO SAUNA, MORE THAN LIKELY, ALSO EAT AND EXERCISE WELL.
Just keep buying the AG1 and we'll all be fine.
It’s real easy to do and not THAT expensive. $1300 Relax Far Infared 2 years ago. Thanks for the talk!
Amazon got em for less. And steam saunas for like $100
Fake saunas
Do you still like and enjoy the Relax brand? Thinking of getting one. Thx
I have an infrared sauna ... I just had both hips replaced is it ok ...with titanium hips .. Mild arotic regurgitating insufficiency...on... no meds heathy ... what's your fed back please ❤
I sauna at least 5x a week. Recently I started doing more activity in the sauna - stretching, yoga and even workouts. For the workout what I do is about 10-15mins in I do 3-4 excercises - set up 40 pushups, 30 reverse dips, 30+ body weight squats and lunges onto the step. This really kicks the intesity up to another level. Sometimes I reduce the reps a bit and do 2 rounds of the exercises in a 25min sauna period. Then I'll exit to get a cold shower and come back in for another round.
So, I'd be interested to know what kind of workout I'm getting, what zone. I've got a Polar10 monitor, could probably monitor it with that to see. Anyone have experience of doing activity in a sauna?
If you consult a TCM practicioner it is going to be obvious which sauna to use. For instance if you are prone to fungus, if you have sinuses problems due to reaction to wet weather, allergic to mold then definitely you better use dry sauna!
Disinfect your sauna. You shouldn't have any of those issues if you clean your rig and use fresh water. I have wet climate respiratory issues and the steam helps break up sputum and while adding menthol helps open the sinus and lungs
His argument that wealthier, more health conscious people are likely to live longer can definitely be said about nearly any intervention.
Glad he conceded to the cultural wisdom behind it.
Is Attia referring to the all cause mortality reduction study based on the age range of 54-73 year olds in Finland where they looked at the mortality 15 years later but never accounted for the frequency of sauna use by age? 54-73 years old is a large age range.
He should talk to Ray Peat. He will change his mind on almost everything.
Is the mirror image intentional?
I’ve been to many many saunas. Maybe one was at 130 F. Is there any benefit at a lower temp?
I live in Finland and see the sauna as more of a socioeconomic thing. That said, nearly everybody goes to sauna, people in Finland are generally well off and most houses have a sauna. The people who don't have access to a sauna are generally people who
a) come from low income households (living in small flats, don't own a summer cabin)
b) people who don't do any sports (really rare to NOT have a sports hobby in Finland)
I think most people in Finland fall to the 1-2 times sauna per week. Avid sport players more than that, since it's common to use the sauna after practise. Same goes for people who have the luxury of spending time at their summer cabin, where you likely use a sauna daily. People not going at all just don't have the luxury use a sauna since they live in small apartments without one or don't go to the gym/sports center at all.
Adding to all this, sauna'ing is done usually with friends and family, highlighting the social aspect. Quite the contrast to the average optimiser who stares at the clock waiting to be released to the cold shower😸. Cultural pride is another thing in Finns, people love to think the sauna is keeping them healthy and it's a known phenomenon that people overreport healthy habits in survey studies.
which sauna do you recommend?
What's not made clear here is that the Laukkanen study found a 40% reduction in all cause mortality when comparing people who sauna 5-7 times per week vs. 1 time per week. ALL the participants in the study sauna. The question for Americans might be what's the reduction between sauna 1 time per week vs. not at all?
people that are close to death cannot do sauna 5-7 times a week. so the whole study is backwards. it's more the fact that only fit people can do it. and they have less mortality, because they can do it, not because they do it.
Matched with a cold plunge it's remarkable.
What about addressing more thoroughly the research on heat shock proteins HSP 27/90 and cancer proliferation researched in early 2000’s?
Sauna 3-5 times a week 4x20 minutes. That in my calculation would be about 2 hrs at least because you need some rest between, don't you? Plus rest about half an hour afterwords - that means to me a whole morning or afternoon. AND you also work out at leat 5 times a week, also for an hour. Do you work also? Then you must have plenty of energy and time...In our (Budapest, Hungary) Turkish bath peole spend usually 3 hrs because besides the saunas and steam rooms there are also different temperatures of thermal waters. A few people go 3-5 times a week BUT they do NOT work out at all. I find the baths are tiring so I only go once week on my off work out day...and the temparature of the sauna is 72 degrees Celsius, sometimes even less...
Gotta do the cold plunge/Sauna cycle at least 3 cycles 3+ times a week and you Will Be Healthier...
Does anyone have any insights on what would constitute too much sauna? Like, what about heat exhaustion?
Steam room vs dry sauna - my experience is that my heart rate in a dry sauna climbs proportionally to the time spent. In a steam room it seems nothing happens for the first 15 to 20 min and then it shoots up.
My heart rate shoots up after 5 min in my own steam sauna but I can crank it. But you really don't want to because ventricular hypertrophy from being tachycardia. You only want a 20 percent increase over resting heart rate. So like 80-90 if your resting is 60-70
I took the sauna as an habits since i was living in Sweden .. 10 years ago !
Now in Usa , I do 2 or 3 weekly , (sometimes i took breaks ) ...
And I hardly ever got a flu , I hardly ever get sick ... I hardly ever took medicines
Im 42 , and people think im 32
Sooo its not just a help in physical way , also psychologically ... (better mood with the increase of endorfines and serotonine )
✌️✨️🌈
Cool.
4x20 min 80C dry this is monthly or weekly?
Love saunas. That last comment did not age well.
Lol no it did not age well. was looking for this comment. cheers mate
What brand or model is good to buy?
"Enough people getting vaccinated"?????? WoW!
Peter trusts the science
@George Costanza What a dork
Peter trusts that paycheck from the science
is jacuzzi same effect for body blood health
ty
just because the study had Finnish saunas (super hot and dry) doesn't mean the infrared don't do the same or better...many functional folks find that infrared does better with detoxing better even at lower temps
I'd like to experiment with sauna use before sleep. The idea is that your body tries to dissipate heat which leads to a core body temperature drop to facilitate sleep
My gym had a steam room and hot tub. I use to workout around 8:30pm until around 9;15pm and go to the steam room and hot tub until 10pm. I would smoke weed after and sleep amazing.
I worked out from 7-10pm, always finished w 15min sauna, pool dip, 10min steam, pool dip, whirlpool, shower. Sleep is great! My body was primed for rest & recovery.
@@didafm weed actually inhibits deep sleep
Hitting the sauna in the evening is guaranteed the best sleep I’ll have all week.
I don't know the exact science behind it but I find everytime I evening sauna my sleep is noticeably better and also a increased morning sex drive , maybe due to improved blood flow to the extremeties
Minimum effective dose: 4 sessions per week, 20 min each, at 80 degrees C = 176 F
I'd do a workout then sauna 90 minutes 4 times a week to avoid responsibilitys and shed fat got surprisingly strong. In 8 weeks or so
Thinking felt a bit hazey after
@@nikitaw1982 if you stayed in a sauna for 90 minutes at a temperature that is backed by research to be effective, you would be dead. To match the research-backed protocol, crank your sauna up to 180 degrees and try to stay in for 20 minutes, which is very uncomfortable.
Your 90 minute sauna wasn’t hot enough to do any good whatsoever.
Firstly 90 minutes after exercise has to be a lie as already pointed out.
Secondly, it’s proven that sauna after a workout inhibits strength and hypertrophy gains so you are contradicting the literature again.
I didn’t hear this mentioned, and almost never do. But what about the befits from the sodium you sweat out of your body? High sodium intake is a big problem and so common, and affects all of our organs. The data shows you can lose 500-1000mg of sodium in 15-20 minute sauna sessions. Is this the equivalent of eating 500-1000mg less sodium a day? As someone with high bp, very curious.
I'm curious about this as well. And you don't just sweat out sodium, you sweat out a lot of different things. I also wonder what effect that has on the skin.
I take potassium salt. I do not believe it increases BP.
Actually it’s opposite you need the electrolytes and tend to need to replenish if you sauna regularly
You need REAL Salt, not the white pig corpses stockholders BS.
So maybe a strange question, but if heat is so advantagous for your health, muscles, etc…
Do people in hot places also benefit from these advantages from just living in these conditions everyday?
I think it's a combination of both heat and cold exposure
They live in less hot conditions than sauna
It’s not heat in itself but the change and chock from the change
jacuzzi do any good?
Consistant habits that improve life over the long term are less noticable when current medical data has only been relatively reliable for less than 100 years
The problem with commercial gyms is that the sauna temperatures are nowhere near 180 degrees. 130-140 degrees max.
I find steam sauna very beneficial after a good workout. 110 degrees f for at least 25 minutes. It is the only way I get a good sweat.
Most studies use 170F as a minimum.
I prefer a steam sauna because I'm not a sweater
@@achevres usually steam saunas feel a lot hotter at lower temps from what I've heard
@@achevresit’s my understanding that steam saunas do not need to be as hot as a dry sauna to be effective
@jasonrafeld5769 Did more research. In the steam room the body beats up more quickly because the body can't sweat. Steam is better for muscle soreness. Dry sauna has more cardiovascular benefits. There is more research for the benefits of dry saunas. All heat exposure is beneficial, IMO. Personal preference and access are key factors, of course.
4 Sessions
Each session 20 minutes
80* C / 175F
What if it can't get to 80 degrees? The saunas in Taiwan are mostly around 60-70 degrees. Does that mean the time should be extended?
Most probably, but there‘s no scientific study that can prove it.
I never take a sauna (I'm not rich) without a cold plunge after/during. I have always believed that it is the "shock" of temperature variation that stimulates the body's natural immune response. Does the research go into this?
If you notice a difference, then it does…for you.
I agree.
I used to do this but then I realized I may be undoing the sauna benefits of the heat. Having your capillaries and pours opened May be why it’s beneficial. I still do both but, separately.
Dr. Attia says the temperature in the sauna needs to get up to about 175 (80 degrees Celsius) for 20 minutes. Most of the saunas I have checked into, including the one I have, only gets up to about 140. So does that mean you have to stay in longer? How do you compensate for the lower temps that most saunas operate at?
you probably have an infrared sauna - those only get up to about 140 and require you to stay in a bit longer... I think he is talking about a regular dry sauna which are in the 180-190 degree range. I typically do 15 minutes at 190 but the few times ive been in an infrared i'v had to stay in 30+ minutes to get the same amount of sweat..
Jeremy, since I wrote that reply I checked with a sauna company and that said that if it is an infrared sauna, the temperature does not need to be as high to have the same benefit.
Sorry... Typo... And they said that...
I find that sauna impacts my overnight HRV, any findings concerning sauna and HRV?
Whoa, you had me until he said "as soon as enough people are vaccinated." ..... wth ..... But, Sauna therapy is great! Highly recommend, I feel and look so much better afterwards and benefits last a day or so, am considering getting a portable one for a closet or the garage I love it so much.
We just got one
Dr. Rhonda Patrick (very worth following) has been bullish on Saunas for awhile.
+Jinal Sampat on benefit of sauna
I dont think there is much of an income restriction in Finland or indeed any of the Scandinavian countries, when it comes to sauna. Even Ukrainian soldiers build makeshift saunas in their trenches.
InfraRed any better?
Does Dr. Attia recommend infrared or traditional?
traditional
@@WEF2030SLAVE can you share a link where he talks about infrared vs traditional? I know the Finnish studies are with traditional but there are other studies showing benefits with IR.
Infrared or dry?
80c-25 mins-warm up for 5 with positive Manifestns…5 to stretch…10 for meditn…5 to stretch…
Earlier in the day the better…630am! Then swim a km. Boom!
Infrared energy (heat) supports structured water development throughout the entire body, which is beneficial to health for numerous reasons. This is the primary benefit of sauna, not heat shock proteins or getting your heart rate into "zone 2" etc. Sometimes I think Attia is missing the forest for the trees.
I look forward to reading your book.
@@jayandgem I'll spare you having to read Attia's. Do zone 2 cardio and get on statins.
That guy doesn’t know cause he never listens, he thinks he knows everything. Dr Rhonda Patrick goes over the studies
I like at the end he shilled for big pharma lol.
2:17 "Alles mit Mass und Ziel", lol. lets go experiment.
80 degrees Celsius!?!? What’s the lowest temperature that helps?
Does a infrared sauna also get you the same benefits?
Think it depends on temperature, I have just build a 4kw infrared in my garden I can get it up to 90c hottest I have done is 80c
Twin Spider-Man meme personified
Peter Attia has changed his mind...
Pertaining to Socio-Economics I'm pretty sure the Studies clarified that Finland has an average of 1.8 Saunas per Household/Apartment Complex. It's a common feature in Finland, it's almost like having a Garage in the US, most homes have 1 if not a couple. So the whole Study being diluted by Wealthy Well Off people bit is a bit dishonest.
Ugh the vaccine plug in the end. Why Peter?
Because the phase 3 trial data was unequivocal.
My building has a sauna but the temperature cannot be controlled. It goes up to 88 F only. Does that mean the benefits are 0?
Zero benefit from 88F. That's not a sauna. That's my house's current room temperature.
How about hot baths?
Here in Japan, you can take a sauna/cold bath as well as other baths for about $5, for as long as you like. So it's nothing to do with money or disposable income necessarily. It also is a nudist area, with no smartphones or devices, just a plethora of men sweating it out while watching the sumo on TV. A lot of them are septuagenarians, and are fit as fiddles (or shamisens).
I'm in Japan too. Kyoto's saunas are so perfect. Gotta admit the fee's so low. Who needs to spend two grand on a personal sauna? I guess I would when I'm past my 50s...
Steam saunas will do the same things as a dry sauna, but faster. The hot water vapor increases the rate of thermal energy transfer to the skin due to the higher mass of water vs air. This why hot humid days are less comfortable than hot dry days of the same temperature. Ultimately both increase the skin temperate of the occupant causing the downstream physiological effects. Peter is brilliant, I love him, but thermodynamics isn’t his background as far as I understand.
Then why does one’s heart rate spike much faster in a dry sauna?
Heat is one kind of stressor. IR saunas actually work far better because they penetrate deeper due EM waves rather than just hot air.
That was my question...... Which is best Steam Room VS Dry Sauna , 😉
@Jax Also a huge factor humidity adds to heat is because the sweat on your skin evaporates less when there is already vapor in the air, therefore disabling, too a degree, your body to cool itself properly
I’m curious to know what the effects of that heat are on male reproductive system. I’ve heard that high heat is bad for fertility?
Move to AZ. Sauna every day. (Feels like it anyway. It will cure any desire to be in an actual sauna.)
what do you think of Sauna blankets?
In Sweden you can find a sauna in most gyms
Life expectancy in Finland is 82 years same as Canada. Nobody uses a sauna in Canada, well maybe a few.
your air is purer
NIR near infra red and melatonin
Finally Salus Saunas is sponsoring Peter.
Is it healthy to go sauna after the weight training?
it actually helps heal the muscles. I'm usually less sore the next day if I lift and then hit the sauna, then the cool pool.
🙌
If you need to sauna 4 times a week just to see a difference, it's highly unlikely the sauna is the reason behind improved health outcomes. Like he mentions in the middle if you have time and care enough to sauna 4 times a week you are probably are very health conscious.
In Finland it's not. Saunas are so pervasive in our culture that almost all people use them regularly.
@@sket179 is there a study comparing different people in Finland who sauna and don't sauna?