Ship Chat: Challenger Class
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 24 พ.ย. 2021
- Today by the request of one of my members we look into perhaps the most mediocre Starfleet ship of the 2360s; the challenger class. while it is built with galaxy class components its far less awe inspiring than its larger cousin. But was it effective in carrying out its humble, yet nonetheless vital mission?
Support the channel: www.buymeacoffee.com/6DRwAu4
paypal.me/VenomGeekMedia
Join the Community: / 222022375544080
Source:www.ex-astris-scientia.org/ar... - บันเทิง
Its the lollipop, its a good ship.
Looks more like a Macaraca (I hope to hell I spelt that right.)
I was just about to say this when hey said it looked like a lollipop ;-)
Lol, don’t look at her front the top down.
Riker quote for the win!
Like other comments I see here, it's more likely this class is named for the space shuttle Challenger. Another connection is the name USS Buran. The Buran was the name of the Soviet Union's version/copy of the space shuttle.
First thing I thought of was the space shuttle.
Although I do tend to see many of these ships as basically destroyers, and often with historical destroyer names.
It presumably has some, at least one, torpedo launcher too - somewhere...
Possibly also named for the old Earth Starfleet NX line since those were obviously reusing shuttle names, or even the Discovery-era Buran depending on which era bearing the names was notable enough in the mid-24th century. My bet would be on the NX line more than the shuttles as they would likely be far more emphasized due to their early exploration and diplomacy roles rather than the shuttles which really didn't do much at all beyond being an early symbol of space travel... also seems like a rather bad idea to name a class for something that was most historically notable for blowing up. A ship in it's honor, I could see, but not the full class! It would be just like naming a brand new ship class "Titanic". There are some names that you really shouldn't use for certain things.
Uh the Challenger Class is probably inspired by the Challenger Space Shuttle.
Agree
Came to say the same thing since the class itself isnt shown on screen until after the Challenger accident in January of 86. Felt it was in some way a tribute to the shuttle and its crew.
@@JaredLS10 And wouldn't it be more well known than the Challenger Tank?
@@robertbarrows6687 I would think so considering the challenger tank is only used by the U.K and Oman.
Yeahhhhh...when he went on about that tank I cringed. Like this is a star trek channel.. How da fork does one miss the challenger shuttle connection!?
The Challenger is probably named after the space shuttle Challenger which is famous for blowing up. Which is appropriate for a starship that we only ever see as a blown up wreck.
hey that was a another example of survival of the fittest natural selection weeding out the stupid from the human races genetic pool
@@raven4k998 show some respect for those who lost their lives in that terrible accident. Pendejo
@@jorgedavila4920 hey they died for the cause accept it no big deal just like you having to be in lock down no big deal accept it slave boy
Aaaahhhhh..., a Star Trek inside joke then. Makes sense.
I disagree that "most people" think of the Challenger tank, even in GB. Especially when factoring in the sci-fi/space travel aspects, the early 90s origin, and the ship name of Buran, it's pretty clear it's named after (and should be associated with) the Challenger Space Shuttle.
I'm 99% sure that was the joke...
I believe it was a joke. Subverting expectations, and doing so dryly with such commitment is a hallmark of British humoUr. I laughed XD
When I hear the name Challenger, me being a history buff, I think of the sailing vessel HMS Challenger and her cruise, the Challenger Expedition. Secondarily the space shuttle.
Well you forget that YOUR opinion is of a British person from 2022-2023. This show was made for Americans in the 1980s & 1990s.This episode is first aired in 1990. The shuttle Challenger disaster was still fresh in Americans minds then since it blew up in 1986. Yes this show syndicated to the UK, but you need to remember these facts. So please don't act as if the world revolves around you....
Ah, so now we know what class was the ship made up by Riker in the Arsenal of Freedom on TNG. You should have noted its defensive capabilities are "10" and "6".
I've got a model of this ship from Eaglemoss; I really like it for its strangeness. 🙂
I'm sure Challenger class refers to the Challenger Shuttle not the Tank
Becasue you always send a MBT to negotiate. Peace through SUPERIOR FIREPOWER 😜
Good because Challenger Shuttle had a warp core breach. 😅
The Sovereign tech version of the class prob looks really cool.
Back in the Golden Age when it's only big fish eating little fish - not the big guys going head to head in a total war. …
For a diplomatic ship that's visiting _minor powers,_ using a full on Battlecruiser could be counterproductive as that might be interpreted as a intimidation attempt.
"We are a peaceful Federation that means you no harm and only wishes coexistence, and that's why we've turned up in a warship that could singlehandedly devastate your Planet."
HIstorically, that is what gets used. When visiting allies, it impresses your allies to have a powerful friend. You would not use a military vessel for visiting a hostile power, major or minor, because they would not give permission for you to enter port. Also, the ships controlled by teh government were generally naval vessels. The one quasi-military/civilian vessel would be a royal yacht. Of course, air travel changed al this. I think the Star Trek universe is more akin to the Age of Sail.
Season 2 finale of Lower Decks actually lampshades this, with the reason the Cerritos is held back till first contact is established is so they don't misread two ships rolling up on their planet as an invasion.
" -Italy- The Challenger class is the least of the -Great Powers- Brahms design ships." The Challenge is indeed one of Starfleet B/C-tier ships. Though it served its purpose well for the time it was made. The class may be useful for civilian usage post-Dominion War.
Also, the Challenger class being referred to as a lollipop in shape reminds me of a scene of Sir Christopher Lee in the 2004 Tim Burton _Willy Wonka_ movie when he says _"Lollipop."_
"Otherwise known as cavities on a stick." Sir Christopher Lee.
Feels like a similar ship class to the Cerritos.
O/T: it would make sense to design a ship that maximizes the volume used inside a Warp bubble.
For the Challenger, it's Saucer almost touches the edges and yet the entire rear of the warp bubble is empty space, it's not a efficient use of the warp field. The Saucers leading edges could also cause issues, the field contracts slightly and it's outside the field.
It seems it would be better to "McMansion" the Warp bubble, and use a oval that fits perfectly dead centre as the basis of the ships concept, and then cut away from the oval as needed for ships layout and functions. Treat it like a sculpture with the oval shape as the starting block.
And the goal is to remove as little material as is necessary, so as to get the most use out of the blocks volume. Only what is needed to ensure that the nacelles place the Centrepoint of the field at the Centrepoint of the ship.
Well most federation and klingon ships lean forward in the warp bubble. Allowing their high performance. Romulans are closer to the center. And that's why they're slower.
"Actually, it reminds me a lot of the Kelvin." Have more damning words ever been uttered than those?
I LOVE THIS SHIP! I love the Freedom and Challenger for the in-line warp nacelle, they give a 'Dollar Tree Galaxy Class" feel. I love the idea that Star Fleet would have those less costly ship designs based on Brahms' ship design and warp theory, something small enough to be transports, science ships, constructors, and even envoys - which this ship model is used for in Star Trek Armada III, a mod for Sins of a Solar empire. It fits nicely with the Nebula Class, as a heart throb for me - it gives the feeling that the TNG era had more than the Enterprise D, and a few Excelsiors roaming around in space as it feels throughout most the show. The challenger has a very unique warp profile, and something almost never seen with a nacelle on top and bottom, balancing the center of mass, making for a more stable warp field, unlike say something like the Maranda. I'd love to serve on one of theses in the 23rd century.
I love this design as its unusual and unique. Makes a change for the fleet. Upgrade the warp core and it would be a powerful little cruiser.
When I hear the name Challenger, I think of defective O-rings that waited until the most crucial moment to fail, and then killed several very fine and courageous people.
Great analysis!
The Challenger class is a great looking Starship the design of this vessel is very interesting
It looks like the Warp Core would fit if it was mounted vertically. I think it's mounted horizontally so that it can be ejected without impacting the nacelles.
Very nicely done
I never much cared for the vertically stacked engine designs, but explaining this class as being primarily a diplomatic cruiser makes me appreciate it more.
Looks like a lackluster version of the Akula class.
It’s certainly more boring then the Akula.
i like it looks oddly cool
Riker served on the 🍭, said it's a good ship.
That's good enough for me.👽
I am very curious about this design. I don't remember ever seeing it before but the more I look at it, the more I like it.
(Please excuse the length of this reply as it became one of my greatest Star Trek thought provoking moments!!! I'm so proud!!!)
I absolutely LOVE this ship! I love the real world story of it's kit bashed roots as well....especially how the parts were sourced. The submarine Typhoon class piece was just genius as Hunt for Red October was out around this time.
This design would be quickly chosen for a Section 31 experimental "continuous-running" phaser strip according to de-classified documents.
Instead of seeing it's candy like design as a hideous combo of saucer and secondary hull.....
see it as one, linear piece, then, EMBRACE IT!
Now, see where this top secret, Riker approved, perimeter weapon could be placed? At the ship's knife's edge of course! Once in place, you now have a firing arc that NO other effing class can have. You now see it as a battle axe and not a fragile sugar treat!
Now this would secure a Reliant state of production and finally give this beast your Challenger-esque (esk) worthiness!
I bet you're about to ask, "Where if you see/read about this Section 31 classified data Justin?!?!"
I could be ass and keep yall in suspense but I just had an imaginative moment and gave my "PHAP" (LMFAO....it happened again! Imagination!) "Perimeter High Arcing Phaser". Phapping, not to be confused with FAPPING...lol, allowed this lollipop to be sweetest damn ship to ever be reimagined and considered to be the "Baum" to any captain that got to command one!!!
LMAO!
Always thought it would be a good design to help establish a colony. Imagine having 2 or three in orbit. It could provide so much including vacations from all of the hard work in the holodecks ( which I would increase the number in each ship.). Missions are three plus months long.
Some of the pictures seem to indicate a pair of phaser strips on the stern of the ship and the diagram showed for and aft torpedoes. I think you may be wrong about that blind spot.
"She aint pretty, but shes got it where it counts"
no matter how good the standout legendary ships are, you need capable background ships like the challenger, california and others to make it possible
I like this design. In New Horizon it's cheap to produce and to maintain, perfect to keep pirates away.
I actually really like this ship design.
Wait a minute, I recognize that Typhoon sail. It's from the Red October. I remember it had that brick style texture to it and those openings on the top.
At least now I understand why I kind of liked this ship. I was really into submarines when I was a kid, I begged my dad to take me to see the movie Hunt for Red October when I was 9.
There must be a USS Lollipop, the first of its class of starship to have a comical name? 😂
Hi! I love your vids and your English accent, my fav I’d a similar ship but with Reliant/Miranda parts, it’s so cool, thanks buddy and keep up the good work😃🇦🇺👍❤️🏳️🌈
Well if Starfleet is concerned about phasing out older obsolete ships they should phase out the 23rd century ships like the excelsior, Miranda, and oberth. Younger ships like the galaxy class can be refitted with better tactical systems and newer technologies like bio neural circuitry.
In the US, "Challenger" always refers to the Space Shuttle Challenger. Very few people on this side of the Atlantic have ever heard of a Challenger tank...
To me, my take is this, on the _Challenger_ :
First of all, if it's actually a front-line vessel, it'd fit in the Escort Sub-Group (Destroyers and Frigates). If it's what you called it, then it's some form of Colonial Vessel. It depends on where you place the _New Orleans-class._ The _New Orleans_ had a crew of 550, the Challenger 300. The _New Orleans_ was the heavier ship, by far, and _Challenger_ was probably the follow-on to the 2330's series (_Ambassador_ and _New Orleans_ ). So, if we think of the _New Orleans_ as a Light Cruiser to the _Ambassador's_ Battlecruiser (taking the title away from the _Excelsiors_ and down-rating them to Heavy Cruisers), then _Challenger_ is closer to a Destroyer.
A distinction must be made between the two types, though. Front-Line Escort ships like Destroyers and Frigates are one thing, but similar-sized vessels of MUCH less endurance, designed for colony duty on Earth, or coastal protection are ships often called "Gunboats" or "Colonial Protection Vessels" or "Avisos" or "Coastal Defense Vessels." Some of these could get QUITE big (the Sverige-class Coastal Defense Battleships had 11-inch guns, for example, in two twin turrets, or compare the _Erie-class_ Gunboats at 328ft with 4 6-inch guns to the British F-Class Destroyers at 329ft but 4 4.7-inch guns) and thus would run the size gamut between the smallest Escort Frigates to Pocket Battleships. What makes them distinct is that they're specifically designed NOT to be part of Fleet Actions, NOT to be front-line vessels, but both doctrinally and by limitation of their seakeeping and bunkerage, restricted to close-to-port activites, even if they have Cruiser-level armament.
Back to the _Challenger._ I think the class would best be thought of as a Gunboat of the larger "Destroyer Leader" size. It would be fit for the roles of: Aviso (ferrying diplomats at Warp 9.6), Coastal Defense Vessel (full forward arc phaser strip on the saucer, likely strips along the sides, micro strips on the rear, likely fore-and-aft torpedo launchers with the five-shot cassette-type launchers from a _Galaxy_ ), Colonial Patrol Vessel (fast speed, Cruiser-level armament), internal security vessel.. really, it's the best for second and third-line duties, it seems. _Buran_ herself might even have been directly assigned to Sector 001 as its Aviso/System Defense vessel for the area around Sol and Alpha Centauri. It certainly makes sense to have a vessel of this level of power close to one's own primary systems.
So, despite its strengths, it's not intended - nor was from the start - to be a front-line vessel. In fact, it's a very forward-thinking design-for-doctrine in the sense that Starfleet would create a vessel specifically for this purpose, instead of reusing older ships that are no longer _fit_ for front-line service, for the task. It adds a certain level of officialdom, prestige, and honors to the task to see a "new" Starfleet ship in orbit around your planet while they help settle some diplomatic issue or put down some pesky space pirates, rather than have an ancient _Constitution_ Refit, or even a _Miranda_ of particularly low NCC number doing the job instead. That said, the _expense_ of such ships, being so large, and so packed with facilities, means Starfleet didn't up and replace every ancient ship with one of these, and these would be assigned only to the most important areas (Earth, Vulcan, Denobula, Andor, etc.), thus, seeing one pull up to YOUR doorstep makes an impression.
They're the _Galaxy-class_ of the Coastal/Colony Defense and Aviso set. You get on one of those, you'll have an interesting career for sure. It might not be full of front-line fighting, but it'll for sure be full of interesting times.
As the UK is our ally I find no need to criticize the Challenger tank beyond saying that it is not perfect. It is however a good tank in many regards. That said the most offensive part of this design to me is that Gene Roddenberry would never have approved a ship in which the nacelles could not see each other. This is made particularly ironic considering Space Shuttle Columbia carried his ashes into space, which would probably have been Challenger had it not exploded several years prior
If it's designed for efficiency, then I'd imagine it being used as a science, Scout or cargo vessel. With policing duties as needed.
I think you should always turn the ship so the nacelles are horizontal, and the saucer is vertical. Have the bridge right at the bow (like Babylon 5's command deck).
They named the ship class after the space shuttle Challenger that exploded in 1986. America still had a case of PTSD from watching it happen live when Best of both worlds parts one and two were written and aired. One of the producers and writers talked about it in a early TNG documentary. I'm sure they meant no disrespect to a perfectly good battle tank that wouldn't be built until almost ten years later lol
Thanks man
Sounds like it's a better hotel than a starship.
I mean yeah it's the tng era.
Yup Like someone else pointed out, my first thought was of NASA's USS Challenger space shuttle.
As for starfleet designs, I prefer Galaxy-Class variants like those. Nebula, Sasser, Cheyenne... all cool looking ships. The Challanger made it into a gamemod as diplomatic envoy. I've never really noticed this design to this point, but it made really sense for me in that context. Lollipop indeed, but so are 90% of all starfleet ships - without nacelles. ;-)
Soany Posters here will cry when we see the new Abrams class, then the leopard II class...
Just don't let Ensign Ride slip away for a crafty smoke....
It really seems like you are describing a mission profile that is, by the 2380s, taken up by the California class. Although, the California's seem to have a bit more versatility as they are also being used for engineering tasks and other things. Perhaps the Californias lack the "power" of a Galaxy-type warp core, but are simply equipped with more versatility in mind and are thus retained in service for much longer and in greater numbers.
The eaglemoss version has 4 phaser strips at the back of the "engineering" hull
Couldn't see them?
@@venomgeekmedia9886 the hull between the nacelles. There are two strips on the top and two on the bottom that curve with the Hull. Eaglemoss is notorious for not coloring models sometimes.
@@venomgeekmedia9886 Can see them pretty clearly on the plan view at 3:00
If they had taken this design and added more normal nacelle pylons with nacelles on the sides, it would have been cool. The secondary hull is actually a really good design.
Count me as yet another in the space shuttle Challenger vote. Maybe you're really young and because of that don’t understand the cultural significance of it. Also for any who fit that description and think yeah it blew up, kinda makes it stand out.
School age children then are very late 30's to mid late 40's now. There was a civilian aboard and while yes NASA had tons of civilians Christa McAuliffe was a school teacher. This mission was a "is going to change everything" and in a good way type of event. Schools from all over were going to be linked together and she was going to be teaching essentially from low earth orbit. It was especially exciting for all of us school age kids with thoughts of all the wonderful new things that could start from this.
Schools opened early so kids that didn't have a TV at home would get a chance to watch it and to give as many kids as possible a chance to watch forever. It was also equally exciting for the teachers with them the dream they too might get the chance to do this. So much hope, so very much hope and at a time when it was needed so much excitement I'll never forget that launch or hearing the the command to throttle up and acknowledgement and then what happened after. This was the 1980's, shit that was rated R back then would likely be PG13 today. The majority of children back then hadn't seen death, real or Hollywood. Of course years later most of us learned most were still alive even at the seafloor [good fucking God they fucking died HARD] We didn't know at the time, we all thought we watched them all die. The majority of school children in the civilized world were emotionally damaged that day and will be that way forever.
The teachers were double hit while they too thought they watched them all die AND one of thier own. They had thier own feelings to deal with PLUS a megashit ton of freshly traumatized children to try to calm and help. Atleast in the US and Canada the rest of the school day was canceled.
That was a very simplified overview but you can damn well bet if it's Sci fi it's named after the shuttle. I rarely get moved to tears by things especially after my polar opposite of boring 7 years in the military. I can't think about that tragic day without crying to some extent. I also currently live in the town the shuttle commander of that mission did the majority of his public education in.
You should do a ship chat on the Niagara and Springfield classes.
I always thought of this ship as a federation space ship only. Like you mentioned diplomatic missions, fairing people from all corners of the UFP. Maybe the odd science mission. I don't see this ship being a tough ship.
Not one of my favorite Next Gen ships, but definitely fits the aesthetic of the ships from that era.
It just looks bizarre to me, like if someone designed a car and put the wheels on the front and back rather then the sides. Interesting video by the way. I do appreciate you give it a legit reason for looking the way it does.
Having been in the Navy I’m also curious what anyone thinks it’s pejorative nickname would have been (will be?). Best I can come up with off the cuff is The Lolly Rogers.
Pretty sure the class was named to honor the Challenger space shuttle as the episode it was shown in was only a few years after the shuttle was lost. But the tank looked pretty cool.
New flying coffin to replace the Miranda😜
I really dislike the nacelle placement on this one. I know it's not a literally defined hard and fast rule that nacelles need to be oriented lateral to one another... but the fact that virtually every other ship we ever see on Star Trek has them arranged this way should hint that that is kind of the way it works best. I would rather it be a single nacelle ship. Dorsal or Ventral nacelle, wouldn't matter. In fact, if the opposite side had a mission module of some kind rather than a nacelle, all the better.
Looking at some of the images, i can see 2 small phaser strips on the back, so does it not have 360 phaser coverage?
i have a thing for a long secondary hull. Excelsior, Ares, Yorktown class Battleship etc.
The good ship Lollipop.
The overhead view looks like highschool bathroom stall art.
Lol. *OUCH*
It's not the only ship.
Does that design interfere with the efficiency of the warp field?
I was under the understanding, that placing them side by side behind the primary hull offered a slight boost at speed, while consuming a little bit less fuel
This ship sounds like a predecessor for the California class, on the diplomatic end
It's named after the U.S. Space Shuttle Challenger that blew up, killing the entire crew.
All of the NASA shuttles were named after exploritory vessels. The _Challenger_ mapped the Marianas Trench. The deepest part is the Challenger Deep.
Where did you get those images of the Challenger class with the fleet? I would love to have those for my laptop wallpaper. I know it's not the coolest ship or the toughest ship, but I've always liked the way the class look.
Is this were jj Abrams star trek Kelvin ship ?( silhouette) Love the challenger battle tank . Awesome machine. Arguably the best currently.
Wouldn't surprise me. Especially if you look at the full scale saucer.
When I think Challenger I think the space shuttle or the Galaxy Class Geordie was Captain of
I thought it was named after the space shuttle that exploded?
Seems like it would be much improved via adding a few more phaser Arrays to say the warp nacelles and secondary hull Ala the galaxy class
Cheers.
Reminds me of a hammerhead tadpole (from the top).
What are the rest of the Brahms line ships again?
The Cheyenne, Springfield and New Orleans, in particular, plus Nebula and Galaxy-class, @Some Rando Filipino .
Venom Geek. A question: Aren't the nacelles supposed to be in line of sight? The Engineering section appears to be in the way of establishing a stable warp field.
That's really only an influential Internet fan theory. Really, Starfleet may prefer it, but it seems few other species feel in any way constrained about that under a lot of circumstances.Even Voyager usually runs with the nacelles abeam the seconary hull.
@@OllamhDrab Voyager moves it's pylons into line of sight before going to warp.
Technically yes... but actually no.
@@venomgeekmedia9886 while my favourite is the two nacelle with line of sight, I do respect the system where number nacelles indicates the tonnage of the ship.
@@OllamhDrab That is true but in order to work Voyager's are raised into line of sight.
The Challenger classes nacelles are fixed.
I think about the Challenger space shuttle.
More likely named after the Challenger space shuttle.
I feel like the model builders missed out on this one as it would probably be a better fit for a tri nacelle design
No one thinks of the Challenger battle tank, expect those in the culture necessary to be influenced by it. Most of everyone else who is a fan of space thought of the Challenger space shuttle, as stated in many comments here.
Maby a Andorian inspired design in the Ent Earth Romulan war novels NX-03 Challenger was lost with all hands over Andoria during a nuclear attack
It just has a andorian look to me
Where is the deflector dish?
Dude it wasn't named for your tank en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Shuttle_Challenger
How does this "lolly pop" go to warp? Warp was always had engines that were co-dependent and the warp field was produced between them.
The challenger name doesn't bring to mind a tank......it makes me think of Nasa's challenger shuttle disaster.
Well a mediocre tank and ship. Go M1Aabrams
You wot m8!
Could they at least be converted to aid ships?
They could have improved the design by adding 360 degree phasers around the pylons. That would give it better aft coverage and tighten the blind spots.
There is no phaser blind spot aft. There are 4 emitters (2 on each side).
Where’s the navigational deflector ??
when I think of this name sake, I think the space shuttle, not so much the british tank
im now referring to this ship as the Lollipop Class cruiser lmao
Perhaps naming it the Challenger Class instead of the Diplomatic Class set the bar a bit too high and was a touch misleading. 😁
another ship that makes me ask, "Where's the deflector dish?!"
Yeah I think it's probably in the same place as the cheyenne
If we're honest, there are probably more ships without deflectors than there are with.
It was also a space shuttle that exploded, wasn't it?
That's funny when I hear the name Challenger I think of the Challenger space shuttle not a tank.
@7:25 "But it is...probably the weakest...of all the Brahms designs.
*_Freedom Class has entered the chat._*
So... almost merely an armed luxury liner.
11:07 what class is that bottom right?
California class. its almost as bad as the state :p
@@venomgeekmedia9886 hopefully they fitted enough toilets this time.
Where is the navigational deflector?
Probably the saucer section
Same place as the Miranda, Oberth, Constellation & Centaur classes, as well as any number of alien ships.
"If the Enterprise gets through with news about their brave captain's valiant struggle on behalf of the defenseless Ba'ku, your Federation politicians will waver, your Federation opinion polls will open a public debate, your Federation allies will want their say… need I go on?" This is what the Challenger is for: all those interior worlds and city-state planets the UFP said they'd be there for, all the crises for which you need diplomats somewhere yesterday, and of course long range scientific operations. Still, that secondary hull is ugly. I prefer the different scales version, but hull leaves much to be desired. A little tapering here and there wouldn't hurt at all.
You say it has a gap in the phaser arc, but I'm seeing phaser emitters on the rear tip of the secondary hull to cover that gap. And yes, number zero bad flanking time for you. I'm sure she was useful before the Dominion war, but certainly not after.