Tell that to Gigabyte whose PSUs actually blow up even without additional strain. Or those shoddily made PCI-E risers which started fires. New connectors and PSUs won't blow up if they aren't shoddily made. And there will be shoddily made things. Which will have more probability to blow up now than before due to higher demands of the new hardware.
@@Vladimir_Kv There's always gonna be shoddy made stuff but at least we have amazing tech channels (definitely not all lol) that will hold these companies accountable and spread the word. Still, this is a great info.
@@wojtek-33 If it makes you feel any better, bending cables is not going to start a fire. I've worked on many many modded systems, this is not an issue. I honestly can't believe I gotta explain that PSU cables are designed to be able to bend. This tech is mostly fool proof compared to 20 years ago, its just another spec, they were stress testing it and details leaked that are not the least bit alarming to experts but when read by the layman in the media gave fresh fire for a panic. Idk how else to say this but because a card CAN run at 600W does not mean any actual gamer in the wild is going to hit anywhere near that power draw.
@@wojtek-33 These concerns have always existed regardless of spec, what I'm saying and again I can't believe I have to spell this out, is that the kinds of bends people make to cable manage in their custom build are NOT going to contribute in any remotely meaningful way to a catastrophic failure such as cables or headers melting, I literally have done dozens of cable mods on a variety of PSU's, the only concern a gamer or even power user should have is are you buying a trusted brand, are you buying a PSU with a power delivery that gives you 20% headroom over the demands of your hardware, and if doing custom cable modding are you following the correct pinouts of the PSU you're working with. Bends for cable management will not cause a fire and are unlikely to cause damage to cables, the PSU, the card, etc read the report again the conditions in these tests will never be met in the real world and the same conditions would lead to the same failures in old generation hardware, these are extreme edge case limitations of electrician geeks not for the layman. They are not a next gen problem nor are they an NVIDIA problem as the AMD circle jerkers believe for some reason.
A truly exceptional interview full of important information. Always nice when a journalist does their due diligence rather than looking for easy clicks based on half-baked information.
i have i7 12700 non k , asus z690 tuf wifi, Nvidia rtx 3070 FE, 32gb 3000mhz Corsair vengeance, cooler master hyper 410r cpu cooler and cooler master v650 semi modular gold certified psu , 1 tb ,2tb 4tb HDDs ,860 evo 250gb ,2tb 970 evo plus nvme , 6 normal non RGB cooler master fans . thats my pc configuration. i wanted to upgrade to RTX 3080 ti 12gb . will it b good running on my 650watts gold rated psu( bought in 2015 which has japanese capacitors) i run my system at stock and don't overclock anything . please suggest and advice
Man, this couldn't have come at a better time. This is hands down the best video explaining the situation, especially at a time where consumers don't have these PSUs/GPUs and there's a lot of scaremongering going around. This needs to be seen by more people!
Big props for this. I saw "other" reviewers spreading the panic rumours, which didn't stand up to examination. To be honest this just underlines your objective viewpoint on your channel.
I unsubbed from jayz back when he told everyone to buy gpus before the prices dropped more and randomly saw his recentvideo about the adapter cables melting lol. I would unsub from him again if I could.
@@TinkletitsMcGee Yea I unsubbed J quite some time ago, but I did see his post on this and facepalmed. Then I found the post about different power draws on a 3:1 adaptor and was figured it was poor testing, mis-wired adaptor. You know, obvious things rather than the more click-bate-worthy - some new ATX 3 PCI thing that will burn things down.
@@TinkletitsMcGee J2C got me spooked 👻 yeah I've not watched too much of J2C in the last few years but he tends to think out loud and causes a lot of unnecessary panic...really not a great approach to making informative content, especially when you have nearly 4M subs. Like, there's gonna be a fraction of people who will see this video (that is super informative) vs J2C's one, that really offers nothing of value.
@@Macho_Man_Randy_Savage My only problem with J2C is that either he or his editor has a major hate boner for Nvidia, you get these click bait titles about how Nvidia is getting murdered by AMD, they are gonna cause a fire, they are this that and the other etc. I mean we all get it, Nvidia overcharges, but the reason they overcharge for their hardware is because their hardware is the best, they have supremacy in the market because AMD is always at least one generation behind on hardware performance, part of that reason this time around is because AMD is shying away from increasing power delivery (which we all know has to happen before PCIE5 can have real world deployment). I wish people like J2C stopped hating on Nvidia for winning the game and started demanding AMD get their act together and provide a comparable alternative, hating Nvidia isn't going to make their product any cheaper or AMD's product any better. It seems like no matter how AMD is doing there is always this AMD circlejerk going on, they're even slipping against Intel lately and they continue to get praised for it even when they do poorly. They've always been a league behind Nvidia but everyone pretends "this is gonna be the year they catch up!!" based on zero evidence and then relentlessly downplay the spec of Nvidia products which are dominating in reals over feels. AMD needs to get good and they can't until the circlejerk stops.
even wilder considering the direct quote from guru confirming they KNEW ports were melting. his response was “we replaced the ports” as if this isn’t a major safety hazard.
So Nvidia makes giant new cards. Those cards require a new plug, but you cannot bend the wires close to the plug or it will cause problems. So they put the plug facing straight out into the case glass where most people don't have enough room. Then they make them so thick that vertical mounts do not get enough airflow because in most cases the fans will be right up to the glass. I can see a lot of new full tower cases being sold in the near future.
I hate to defend Jay as he's said a lot of things that make him look bad, but in this case it really wasn't his fault. He was just reporting what Zotac had reported, so he isn't the originator of the story, but what he said doesn't help.
He made a great point. I already have a 1200w rog thor which is solid, but any news about even a small chance of failure is going to raise the question in ppls heads, whether the psu you have is going to be enough or do you throw a good 1200w psu to get another 1200w psu with a different connector? Honestly, from the overall response from psu manufacturers taking their time to bring out 3.0 and all these aib's adopting this without any concerns, as they would have to support warranty for issues, I'm a lot more comfortable with my current psu. Thanks for the video!
PCB space is a BS remark by this guy.... use common sense. The area reduced from going from say two 8pin to one 12pin is negligible and you aren't fitting anything extra in that space. Nvidia proved that when they literally lopped off HALF the PCB and AIB's still used 2-3 8pin. You are absolutely full of it and sound like you are being paid to make these claims. Lets look at FACTS. The ampacity rating of 18 gauge wire is 10 amps at 60 Celsius. This means that each single 12v wire in the 6/8pin connection is capable of 10 amps thusly 120 watts per wire. There are THREE 12v wires in the 6 pin, that means 360 watts no problem. The 8pin adds two extra grounds, which means less impedance, which means power flows more freely through the 18 gauge wire. Thusly you edge out more power. In the case of the "PCI-SIG" claims, the 6pin is only capable of 6.75 amps and the 8pin 13.5 amps thanks to two extra ground wires. In that ideal, they are doubling the power but NOT doubling the grounds.... But that still makes no sense. 6.75 divided by 3 wires is 2.25 amps per wire.... That isn't anywhere near close to 10 amps at 60c..... now you could argue "they wanted to keep temps down" but the PVC coating on those wires doesn't melt until 105 Celsius.... those 12pin connections that were "melting" in the news were hitting 130-150 Celsius temps.... all for "600w of power" okay lets break that down. The ampacity rating of 16 gauge (the required gauge size for the new 12 pin connection) has SIX 12v wires and SIX grounds. That would relate to 600 divided by 6 is 100 watts per wire. 100 watts divided by 12 volts equals 8.33 amps. That isn't even CLOSE to the 10 amps ampacity rating of 18 gauge wire.... So TWO 8pin connections, would not only MATCH the positive 12v wire count, but would have essentially 4 extra grounds. SIX 12v wires, and TEN grounds.... you are telling me that can't handle the power of a 12VHPWR cable? LMAO. PCI-SIG is lying. Now if PCI-SIG MEANT that each wire is capable of 6.75 amps per wire, that would make more sense to me. That would mean 6.75 amps times 3 equals 20.25 amps total multiplied by 12 volts equals 243 watts. On a single 6 pin connection. AND IT WOUDL STILL be below the 10 amp per wire ampacity rating at 60 Celsius..... This whole connection standard smells of BS. Why? Because Nvidia originally invented the 12 pin connection, patented, and then used it on their 3000 series FOUNDERS cards. every single founders card has a 12 pin connection. NO ONE ELSE wanted to use it. Because I THINK they didn't want to pay nvidia for its use (as they owned the patent). So Nvidia may have either SOLD the patent to PCI-SIG or PAID THEM MONEY to create their own 12 pin standard.... the latter would explain why the PCI-SIG 12pin has a different "keying" than Nvidia's patented 12pin (can't use 3090 founders edition cable/splitter on newer cards for example). But the other weird part? Nvidia is FORCING their board partners to use the new 12 pin standard. WHY? Why would Nvidia care if AIB's use 12pin or 2-3 8pin? it does NOT make any sense.... I KNOW FOR A FACT that ONE of the MANY reasons EVGA left Nvidia and stopping making GPU's, was because Nvidia was forcing the 12pin on their board partners. EVGA cannot make a super crazy OC card with limited power capability of a single 12 pin. IN REALITY, and following ampacity rules, that single 12pin is technically capable of 900 watts. 16 gauge ampacity at 60 Celsius is 12.5 amps, multiplied by 6 positive wires, multiplied by 12 volts, equals 900 watts. Meanwhile we know that a single 6pin is capable of 360 watts and should edge out more power thanks to 2 extra grounds on the 8 pin. But just using the 6 pin example, three 6pin would result in 1080 watts.... I would imagine three 8 pin could edge out about 1350 watts staying within the 60c ampacity rating.... TLDR this whole thing is BS and seriously made up by people who aren't real nerds and know nothing about electrical engineering. Hell everything I wrote above is basically electrical engineering 101, the stuff you learn the first week. Ohms law (amps times volts equals watts, and other such formulas) and ampacity ratings, etc. This all smells of bullshit to me. Nvidia was the FIRST online to publicly claim that 6pin was only capable of 75 watts and 8pin only capable of 150 watts. And then googling the pci-sig document they dont rate in watts they rate in amps. They claim 6.75 amps for 6pin and 13.5 amps for 8pin.... that's 81 watts and 162 watts respectively. EVEN IF we went with a rule of HALF ampacity rating, that would be 5 amps per wire, meaning 15 amps total, meaning 180 watts on the 6 pin. More grounds on 8pin means we could in theory improve throughput thanks to less impedance, PCI-SIG doubled power, so I will too. That means 360 watts on the 8pin. Two 8pin means 720 watts. Meaning two 8pin is more than enough. DOUBLING DOWN WCCF TECH did a test, and they showed 300 watts of power running through these 8pin connections and yet they were only running 30c.... AKA HALF the 60c ampacity rating. Its more than safe, there is no reason to develop a 12 pin standard that doesn't actually increase power output. IF they truly wanted to save room AND be "future proof" like the original 6/8pin standard, I would have at least thought of a 30 pin. 15 power and 15 ground. 15 power wires at 10 amps max, would be 150 amps total, which would result in 1800 watts max power throughput. all while being completely "safe". But how ridiculous would it be to FORCE a smaller gpu to use a 30 pin connection.... "but they could just use the old 6 or 8 pin standard" yeah so why invent a 30 pin anyway, when they can just use multiple 6 or 8 pin connections. I made you prove my point for me. The 12pin connection is bull!@#$.
On relation to sense pins.... useless. utterly useless. a power supply doesn't force power into your devices, your devices suck power from the source. think of the psu as water in a cup, the straw is the wires, and the gpu is you. You SUCK the water through the straw, as you need it. sometimes you take a small sip, sometimes you just chug away. that's how power supplies work. the sense pins will literally do NOTHING. it COULD limit power, by creating an artificial draw bridge between the cup and your mouth, like "oh you can only sip you can't gulp" which will do NOTHING but cause gpu's to crash when they need more power but aren't allowed to have it. we already have issues with transients where the gpu can jump to almost double the power draw for like 2 milliseconds and that can cause weak psu's to conk out and your pc turns off. adding the sense pins is ADDING a failure point. and then he rambles on about redundancy with the three 8pin to one 12pin connection or four 8pin to one 12pin and that's just !@#$ing stoopid (yes stoopid, because its THAT stupid). if we needed redundancy then current gpu's would have DOUBLE the connections (so your 3090 with three 8pin would have SIX for redundancy). STOP speaking nonsense. you are lying to people and its making everyone dumber for listening.
@@goblinphreak2132 It's not that the 8-pin connector couldn't carry more wattage. We don't need a 2-page high-school Physics explanation. We've seen that the 8-pin EPS connector and PSU-side connectors can do 250+ watts safely. Rather, it's that the whole ecosystem is built around it being specified for the lower amperages and they cannot simply change that on a whim. So a new connector had to be created for us to get more power in the same space (not that we needed to; I'm not making excuses for Nvidia). And I don't think you understand what sense pins do. They're simply ground connections to tell the GPU what wattage the cable and PSU are rated for. If the GPU senses a certain pattern of open and ground pins, it knows to only pull, for example, 300 watts. It's the GPU limiting its own power, not the PSU limiting the GPU's power. This is done to allow for cheaper PSUs and cables that don't support the full 600 watts. FYI, there are sense pins on the PCIe 8-pin connector too. They check if 6-pin connector has been plugged in or the full 8-pin.
Somebody has to play devil’s advocate here. The issue is not about power connectors. It’s about the amount of power these 40 series cards draw. So I have to go out and buy a new freaking power supply just because of this power hungry card.
As a first time PC builder I just bought Cooler Master MWE Gold V2 non-modular PSU for 79 euros / dollars. If I decide to upgrade my RTX 3070 to let's say RTX4080 or RTX4070 what adapter do I need and where do I plug the adapter in my PSU? Sorry for the newbie question. :D JohnnyGuru probably laughing at me right now. EDIT: Does the adapter go to 8 (6 + 2) PIN PCIE cable? EDIT2: Do the apapters come bundled with GPUs?
I have the utmost respect for Jonnyguru and his history in the industry (I read his reviews since almost day one back on the old site) but in this case he's dead wrong. 55A for 10 hours is not a corner case. Overclocked 4090s can reach a TGP of 650W. That's 54A under ideal conditions, and using his own low limit of 11.4v it's 57A. And the stress on the 12VHPWR connector is not a corner case either. Mini ITX is one common example (yes, there are mini ITX cases that can fit a 3090 Ti/4090, and the cabling is very tight). Mini ITX is typically running SFX/SFX-L PSUs which are probably more likely to voltage droop than full size PSUs. And scoffing at full load for 10 hours is kind of ridiculous - besides stress testing, there are plenty of creator loads that last longer than that. I run CUDA 4K video AI upscaling & frame interpolation workloads that can take 16 hours for a feature-length motion picture. Another reason for 12VHPWR sideways stress is the stupid triple/quad 8-pin adapter. Those 3-4 cables plus the adapter itself are super heavy, especially since most PCIe 8pin cables have two connectors each so there is several inches of unused dangling cable-plus-connector on each of the cables. That whole heavy assembly puts a significant side load on the 12VHPWR. That stress would be largely alleviated if you had a single 12VHPWR cable from the PSU, but as Jonny pointed out, Corsair didn't implement that connector, so isn't it slightly self serving to ignore the cable weight stress caused by not having it? I think it would be preferable from a safety standpoint to use the GPU support bracket that comes with many large GPUs to support the 12VHPWR adapter assembly instead of the card itself.
No but it looks like it has a good chance of burning the house down 😆 Applaud Nvidia since gas is so high we now can use our 1600 dollar gpus as firestarters thanks
true, something is going on and must be properly addressed before someone gets hurt , then again one can argue it could be done on purpose , nvdia is looking into it and is in contact with the redditer , its annoying me since im picking up mine in a couple of days
@@daverhodus they have to, I'm getting an atx 3 power supply, and using the cable it provides not touching the nvdia adapter, don't wanna set my house on fire nor damage a card that cost me 3200 aud
Does either the AX860 and AX 1200 of the older models still work well with the new boards, and CPU's and Graphics cards? If I wanted a intel 13900k and a Nvidia 4090, will both of the above power supplies be sufficient?
The AX 1200, if it has enough pcie-connectors, will certainly work. AX860 depends on the overclocks. If you oc your 4090 and have a 13900K oc to draw 300W, you are in trouble. If you scale down the cpu to draw only 150W (what leaves you with plenty of performance) as well as the 4090 to like 300-350W (also not much of a loss there) you are way inside safety limits.
What I didn't understand (or missed) is that the new connector with the sense pins will surely need a new PSU with the ability to sense through those pins. If you just use the older connecters and older psu's there is no communication through those wires. Maybe it's not needed but they are saying that's why those pins are there. Great video - I've just subscribed👍
So.i have a 3090ti, and a 12900k 4 nvme, 360mm cooler all that crap, and a corsair rm1000x psu, I think that's the model, have it plugged into something monitoring watts, and it rarely goes over 850 for the entire system, so I don't think people need to freak out amd get these 1600w new power supply just for a 4090
This is what we need to hear and from industry professionals 😇💪🤩👍. Great to see you Andy getting people like Jonny on your channel to debunk myths about this new spec were transitioning to with new psu’s and GPU’s currently.
As an engineer the moment I looked at the plugs I knew they weren’t up to the job - no amount of damage limitation will change that I won’t be buying any nvidia 40 series card
@@JohnOLooney Oh wow, man RTX 4090 sure was badly dissapointing (except in performance) an d this was actually true. Not only it's a graphics brick, but now a sparky graphics brick.
@@MJ-uk6lu early adopters always take a chance - at least it can be returned for a refund under warranty, unless of course they used a scalper and bought it effectively second hand, then it is an expensive brick yes. The plug isn’t up to the job and as an engineer my eyes almost have a meter built into them now 😊 I think we will certainly see a revision to these connectors soon
What about daisy chain cables from a single 8 pin connector I have an AX1200i, I'm looking to get a 4070ti or 4070 soon, is it ok to use 2 daisy chain cables from 2 8 pin outlets or 1 daisy chain and 1 8-pin from 2 8-pins from this PSU? Will this be sufficient to power either card?
So to my understanding Corsair is going to release cables like 4x8 pin Type 4 with 16 pin on the other end for the GPUs? Are digital PSUs able to split the load for each 8 pin cable equally?
Corsair has a 12 pin with two 8 pin connectors for the 30 series cards. They also have a 16 pin with two 8 pin connectors for the 40 series cards for there PSU’s that are rated for 600 watts with only two 8 pin connectors. I just got one for my 3090ti FE card and have a Corsair HX1200 PSU and it works great. The video tells you why there are so many 8 pin connectors on these adapters that come with the video card’s.
Glad you put this video out. I found the videos claiming non 3.0 atx power supplies would smoke it laughable. Most of these tech TH-camrs aren’t engineers and don’t understand how it works.
I'm confused still. The video mostly seems to say existing power supplies are ok for 40 series. But early in the video he says he heard the 40 series won't power on without those two sense pins, despite it not being the spec. So how are existing PSU's ok if the 40 series requires the two sense pins? Can the adapters provide those two sense pins? I bought a 1300 P+ from EVGA a little while back and I'm really hoping I can use it for the 4090 but it sounds like it won't power on?
Thanks for this video. eTeknix both you and Jonny Guru put my mind at ease with my EVGA 1300W PSU that was geared towards the 30 series cards to work without issues on 40 series cards.
So I have an EVGA 1000W G5 Gold Supernova currently... I am planning to upgrade to the 4090 from a 3080ti. Is there any new cable I would need? Or would it just be a plug and play with what I already have...
Then What else those ATX 3.0 form factored motherboards have extra ? Will that ATX 3.0 Boards be supported by previous higher wattage PSU ? (which wasnt come up with 12 pin pcie)
very nice video, probably the most useful one i seen on the subject so far. interesting to hear about the 4090 not turning on with a 12pin connector, maybe a follow up on that?
If the adapters were purely dumb adapters, this would be the case. However, Nvidia has stated that their adapter has active circuitry in it that communicates with the card about the power available, which is then based on how many 8-pin cables you connect to it. If you connect 3 8-pins to the adapter, the card will run at up to 450W. If you connect 4 8-pins, the card's power limit will be unlocked and you get extra overclocking headroom. Presumably most third-party adapters will be similar.
I really want to get a 4090, I own a Seasonic Prime Ultra 1000 titanium, so a cable mod adapter for instance will be jus fine without issues or drawbacks compared to getting a new atx 3 psu? Should a 3*8 be fine?
Of course. The new 12 pin connector is just a different form factor. How you get that power to the 12 pin on your GPU doesn't really matter. Be it through an adapter, through whatever, IT WILL work as long as the supplied power is enough, of course.
@@asryan7582 As long as the adapter itself is made with quality in mind, it will be perfectly fine. Just make sure to never order the cheap stuff, always do a bit of research (user reviews, etc) before buying anything related to adapters/cables. You really don't want a 2$ adapter for your 2.5k$ GPU.
It’s still somewhat unclear what the pros and benefits are of for example using the adaptors included with many of the 4000 series cards and using the cables that companies such as Corsairs will be providing for 4000 series cards.
i think if someone is buying all new pc parts like ddr5 new gen boards and cards why not just grab a new ATX 3.0 power supply to be safe im mean even if your just upgrading your card just change your power supply better safe than sorry
With 4 plugs feeding into 1 connector at the GPU you end up with 12 power and 12 ground wires feeding into 6 power and 6 ground pins. (4 of the 16 pins are for data). This will require wires to cross. Since electricity goes through the path of least resistance, if you have 1 path that is better than the others, that path will get more juice than the others. Is it enough to cause problems? Spreading out 450w over 4 plugs wired that way leaves the potential for 225w over 1 single 8 pin connection. If someone uses a set of old crappy cables then it absolutely can cause problems. Quality cables that most current PSU suppliers provide should be fine but someone is going to use old cables and daisy chain 8 pins because they only have 3 cables and start a fire.
Best quote "...the person just bought a 1200 watt power supply and now you're telling them that they need to buy another 1200 watt power supply that's exactly the same that has the connector..."
25:20 im a bit confused i thought the new ATX 3.0 could handle power excursions double the wattage of the PSU and the ones currently on the market not, so you would pay for that capability as well and not just the 12 pin cable. And hence wouldnt be «exactly the same».
Why are all techtubers giving NVidia ANY publicity whatsoever about their new cards after the pricing scam they are trying to pull? Are you guys effin kidding me???
Hi, just got a 4090 on order from Best Buy. My PSU is 850w I think, but I have a spare one that I don't use (Thermaltake Toughpower GF1 850w). Will it work to use that only for the GPU?
@@Hexmail787 Thanks, from what I see it can technically be done, but probably not advised. It would require shorting 2 pins on the 24 pin motherboard cable, which can be done with a cheap adapter, but of course there is no motherboard to communicate back if something is wrong so again probably not a great idea.
Nvidia won't blow up my PSU ....Because they will never have a product IN my PC whilst ever they continue to practice their abhorrent business practices; which I'm sure will never change because there's a bit more money without morals.
Fastest 28 mins i've recently watched, interesting stuff if you're a tech head, Thanks to Jonny for taking time to clarify what's going on and thanks to you Andy for doing this informative piece
Just on the connecter wattage calculation as he got it out by 100. Minifit Jnr = 3x8x11.4 = 237.4w Minifit HCS = 3x10x11.4 = 342w (not 242) So, the Corsair cables will run over 300w per 6pin or 8pin lead. It was interesting to know that the 6pin can supply the same load as an 8pin, but it makes perfect sense when you think about it. What I have seen is third party cable extensions that were not fully seated melt.
I think it's safe to say that Jon mis-spoke when he said 242 watts, as we were talking about it before and he clearly said 342 watts to me in regards to it.
So if I’m interpreting this right you can use a single pcie cable to a gpu that uses less than ~240w using a Jnr cable and a single cable with a gpu that uses less than ~340w with a HCS cable?
@@fireeye2209 Yes, though there are a few caveats which suggest you allow some headroom: 1. This is the limit; you should try and be well under it 2. Adaptors will reduce this, and cheap adaptors probably have a lower limit 3. The PSU has to support the power, so check out it's label for the 12v rail and if it is a cheap PSU assume it may not be capable of that 4. If using a 6 pin count the wires. Most have 3x12v wires, but some may only have 2. I would probably go with Jnr
So a max'd out 650W GPU, with bent cables, running for 10 hours straight can burn down. Sounds like a typical marathon gaming session honestly. I don't typically bend PCIE power cables unless necessary, but I imagine in some SFF cases and/or with large GPUs (4000 series are ginormous btw) this would get your cable bend radius requirement checked.
So make slightly bigger pins and connectors? Making more of them, only consume more space requirements, while increasing the pin sizes by 15%, will not only give greater surface area, but also mass for conductivity, but won't require near as much space for transference of electrons...... seems that this is more of a profit increase for precious metals vendors than it it really is to resolve the issue on hand..... Previously when more power was required, you installed a bigger cable, or connector.... or simply made a bigger power generator. Now we increase the pin numbers, make them slightly smaller, increase the cost of the wiring not only by the number of wires, but insulation costs separating them.... when will this end? Everyone needs profits, but the top end people who say "yay or nay" do not need another hundred million in their pockets because they have personal spending problems and they want to fleece everyone on the bottom end..... There is a misnomer from the Bible involving this, and the truth of the matter is "For the love of money, is the root of all evil." Money in and of itself is not evil, the love of money is. It drives the majority of crimes. It drives the majority of sins. It is what it is. A simplification of the bartering system, but there are those who hoard it for the sake of having vast amounts of it.... and for what? To be buried with it? To pass it off to children who will only use it to snort coke up their noses and meth their days away from trust funds? There is no other reason to increase these things than to profit others.
Well, it depends what else you connect to it. If you're also running your dishwasher and AC, through an adapter, to your HX1000I, then no, it will not be enough :)
YAY, I don't have to upgrade my PC Power & Cooling MKiii "850w" PSU 🥰it can actually put out over 900 watts to the components, effectively a 1000+ watt PSU as most other PSU's are rated at power from the wall IMO what does help is a PSU with low voltage ripple, will actually run cooler and more stable as the components don't have to fight the ripples as much which manifest as extra wear/heat on capacitors and components
So I been working on consumer vehicles since. 2005. My only job now is to diagnose and repair electrical systems. Diagnostic of vehicle systems. Some light repair. Programming. And I work on circuit boards. One would be surprised the amperage they some times push on a 18-20 AWG wire continuesly. So when these new PSU specs came out and the new GPU power specs came out the worry for me was not in the PSU, wiring, terminal pins and connectors. It was more in the end user abusing the product or in manufacturering of the products. Yes you have crap products at times.... Gygabyte PSU...
Well considering the latest videos from jay and Paul based on Igor labs article this video has aged like milk. There is a fundamental design flaw in the way the connector is manufactured l. Are you going to revisit the statements made by yourself and Guru.
Thanks for this..Not sure what's happened to Jay since the EVGA story, but he's really going downhill with his vids. Please keep up the unbiased vids and let's all stick to the truth and real science behind tech! Thanks
Dont pretend this is new, hes been heavily going after click bait for years, and unsubbing to him was the right decision. The last things I watched was 2 years ago with a couple of reviews of Ampere and they were lazy, so Im missing nothing.
What you said is good and fine, but I still humbly disagree with their approach here. If you have data that an extreme bend near the connector may cause pin connection fidelity issues that could lead to a fire, don't hide the data and try to downplay it. Instead just release a PSA and educate everyone. From inexperienced builders, to small form factor builders, to just janky case layouts at times, there are lots of opportunities to put pretty extreme bends in many types of cables. I bet we're almost all guilty of some pretty extreme bends on ATX 24 pin cables in order to make that 180 degree turn from behind the motherboard up and over into the top-down style plugs on most motherboards. I know that's unrelated, I'm just pointing something out. It's better to just tell the public to be careful of something and explain why they should be careful of it. I don't expect them to make a connector and cable system that's validated to fly to the moon, but if they see any possibility of slight misuse/mistakes causing a possible heat/fire hazard, just tell us. I won't hold it against them. I'll just be extra careful not to make crazy bends if it ever comes up. And I'll tell others in one sentence not to make a heavy bend on the PCIE power cable near the connector because it causes excess resistance and therefore heat due to pins not contacting perfectly. That's a much better take on this rather than trying to obfuscate the information, belittle those who have concerns, and pretend like no one has ever bent a cable before. There's a better way to address things, period.
@@Jermdizzle They do test for the average consumer. 99% of us will install the video card one time and never touch it again for years until we upgrade. But if you want to exaggerate and put out click bait showing how someone will overly bend a cable 25 times as they put their card in, then the average consumer will call you out as well. I guess we'll see how many average consumers file a class action lawsuit in the years to come vs the TH-camrs who have to pump out false videos for a paycheck! Time for smart people to go get a real job and stop producing crap on TH-cam!
Im glad I watched this video I pre-ordered a 13900k and a Maximis Hero,gonna grab a Strix 4090 on release I've been quiet pissed that I was going to have to wait until Dec to complete the build with a 3.0 seasonic
My bad. I wasn't clear. The two sense wires are terminated to ground. So while the card isn't supposed to post when the sense pins aren't present (supposedly) the adapter DOES terminate those to ground so the card will work no matter what.
With Corsair new cable it makes sense because they recommend 1000W PSU for 450W GPU and this is probably the spac of Nvidias Founders 4090. If by any chance You would go and buy custom OC 4090 that can be in the range 450-600W so 1200W PSU according to Corsair.
Good but also who is going to buy a 4090 now they are retailing for over 2k. Even those of us who normally go high end are reconsidering now if its even worth it
Its less about the Power Supply itself in my experience vs people or PC builders trying to use "fancy and eye candy" cabling resulting in the use of cheap cables that melt or catch fire.
This video has NOT aged well... ohhh dear, more people coming forward with melted power connectors. Credibility down the window on this one Jonny. It's time to face facts.
And mind you, these cards are recent as time goes on it will only get worse from there. The worst is that most of the time if you don't detach the cable you wouldn't be able to tell it's frying...many owners might be just unsuspecting at this point. All of this to save some space on a humongous card, I think a massive recall is on its way. good news for AMD since they won't be adopting this 12vhpwr
@@KeiserHound why do you say that? have you seen the latest video by Gamer Nexus on those cables? they did all kinds of extensive testing and scanning and have shown that ALL the cables have issues and can cause these high resistance high temp issues. The way the connector slots in is so badly designed. Truth is not on your side mate, they need to go back to the drawing board on this one.
@@wibblewobble1934 your response tells me you didn’t watch the video because the conclusion was all cables are capable of failing, same with the old connector. Mind you there’s a difference between “are failing” and “capable of failing”. these connectors just have less tolerance than before so people aren’t doing the simple step of insure it’s plugged all the way. You can quote gamers nexus all you want, but do it properly next time. This original video also mentioned how the 12pin was originally nvidia idea, but the new 16pin was a collection of additions meant for standardization. All the facts are there, why are you cherry picking words?
If chances are zero than how the hell it happened? Only because in your use scenario it's highly unlikely doesn't mean it's impossible or not gonna happen with dozens if not hundreds of people.
I have more questions after listening to this. So if you don’t have the sense pins the 40 series cards won’t power up? So you need an ATX 3.0 power supply for the new cards? The splitter cables sense pins can’t connect to anything within existing PSU’s unless there’s some type of resistor or something to trick the 40 series cards into thinking the sense pins are connected.
The two sense wires are terminated to ground. So while the card isn't supposed to post when the sense pins aren't present (supposedly) the adapter DOES terminate those to ground so the card will work no matter what.
Does this now put your mind at ease knowing all the facts and that your PSU or adapter won't blow up or melt?
1 word: relieved
Tell that to Gigabyte whose PSUs actually blow up even without additional strain. Or those shoddily made PCI-E risers which started fires.
New connectors and PSUs won't blow up if they aren't shoddily made. And there will be shoddily made things. Which will have more probability to blow up now than before due to higher demands of the new hardware.
@@Vladimir_Kv There's always gonna be shoddy made stuff but at least we have amazing tech channels (definitely not all lol) that will hold these companies accountable and spread the word. Still, this is a great info.
@@wojtek-33 If it makes you feel any better, bending cables is not going to start a fire. I've worked on many many modded systems, this is not an issue. I honestly can't believe I gotta explain that PSU cables are designed to be able to bend. This tech is mostly fool proof compared to 20 years ago, its just another spec, they were stress testing it and details leaked that are not the least bit alarming to experts but when read by the layman in the media gave fresh fire for a panic. Idk how else to say this but because a card CAN run at 600W does not mean any actual gamer in the wild is going to hit anywhere near that power draw.
@@wojtek-33 These concerns have always existed regardless of spec, what I'm saying and again I can't believe I have to spell this out, is that the kinds of bends people make to cable manage in their custom build are NOT going to contribute in any remotely meaningful way to a catastrophic failure such as cables or headers melting, I literally have done dozens of cable mods on a variety of PSU's, the only concern a gamer or even power user should have is are you buying a trusted brand, are you buying a PSU with a power delivery that gives you 20% headroom over the demands of your hardware, and if doing custom cable modding are you following the correct pinouts of the PSU you're working with. Bends for cable management will not cause a fire and are unlikely to cause damage to cables, the PSU, the card, etc read the report again the conditions in these tests will never be met in the real world and the same conditions would lead to the same failures in old generation hardware, these are extreme edge case limitations of electrician geeks not for the layman. They are not a next gen problem nor are they an NVIDIA problem as the AMD circle jerkers believe for some reason.
A truly exceptional interview full of important information. Always nice when a journalist does their due diligence rather than looking for easy clicks based on half-baked information.
i have i7 12700 non k , asus z690 tuf wifi, Nvidia rtx 3070 FE, 32gb 3000mhz Corsair vengeance, cooler master hyper 410r cpu cooler and cooler master v650 semi modular gold certified psu , 1 tb ,2tb 4tb HDDs ,860 evo 250gb ,2tb 970 evo plus nvme , 6 normal non RGB cooler master fans .
thats my pc configuration.
i wanted to upgrade to RTX 3080 ti 12gb .
will it b good running on my 650watts gold rated psu( bought in 2015 which has japanese capacitors)
i run my system at stock and don't overclock anything .
please suggest and advice
"A truly exceptional interview full of important information", too bad that people have reported adapters melting.
Man, this couldn't have come at a better time. This is hands down the best video explaining the situation, especially at a time where consumers don't have these PSUs/GPUs and there's a lot of scaremongering going around. This needs to be seen by more people!
Needs someone getting it on the NVIDIA subreddit tbh.
@@eTeknix 100%. I think a lot of people would be curious about this subject. Great job on this btw👍
@@Macho_Man_Randy_Savage thanks. Feel free to post it on there. 👍
Will Corsair send me a 12VHPWR cable if I request it? My psu is the hx-1200W.
@@j340_official they are selling it for 20 bucks, havent seen it it stock personally but you can get notifications for it
Big props for this. I saw "other" reviewers spreading the panic rumours, which didn't stand up to examination. To be honest this just underlines your objective viewpoint on your channel.
I unsubbed from jayz back when he told everyone to buy gpus before the prices dropped more and randomly saw his recentvideo about the adapter cables melting lol. I would unsub from him again if I could.
@@TinkletitsMcGee Yea I unsubbed J quite some time ago, but I did see his post on this and facepalmed. Then I found the post about different power draws on a 3:1 adaptor and was figured it was poor testing, mis-wired adaptor. You know, obvious things rather than the more click-bate-worthy - some new ATX 3 PCI thing that will burn things down.
@@TinkletitsMcGee J2C got me spooked 👻 yeah I've not watched too much of J2C in the last few years but he tends to think out loud and causes a lot of unnecessary panic...really not a great approach to making informative content, especially when you have nearly 4M subs. Like, there's gonna be a fraction of people who will see this video (that is super informative) vs J2C's one, that really offers nothing of value.
@@Macho_Man_Randy_Savage My only problem with J2C is that either he or his editor has a major hate boner for Nvidia, you get these click bait titles about how Nvidia is getting murdered by AMD, they are gonna cause a fire, they are this that and the other etc. I mean we all get it, Nvidia overcharges, but the reason they overcharge for their hardware is because their hardware is the best, they have supremacy in the market because AMD is always at least one generation behind on hardware performance, part of that reason this time around is because AMD is shying away from increasing power delivery (which we all know has to happen before PCIE5 can have real world deployment). I wish people like J2C stopped hating on Nvidia for winning the game and started demanding AMD get their act together and provide a comparable alternative, hating Nvidia isn't going to make their product any cheaper or AMD's product any better. It seems like no matter how AMD is doing there is always this AMD circlejerk going on, they're even slipping against Intel lately and they continue to get praised for it even when they do poorly. They've always been a league behind Nvidia but everyone pretends "this is gonna be the year they catch up!!" based on zero evidence and then relentlessly downplay the spec of Nvidia products which are dominating in reals over feels. AMD needs to get good and they can't until the circlejerk stops.
Jay loves a bit of completely unfounded drama,
even wilder considering the direct quote from guru confirming they KNEW ports were melting. his response was “we replaced the ports” as if this isn’t a major safety hazard.
But it will burn down your house XD
Never listen to a guy who calls himself a guru....
The man, the legend himself.
A few years back I bought 3 G2 Series PSU's from EVGA that I still use to this day. All because of his reviews online.
Ahh thanks. Oh you mean Jon!
@@eTeknix You're both legends, I really enjoy your content 👍
So Nvidia makes giant new cards. Those cards require a new plug, but you cannot bend the wires close to the plug or it will cause problems. So they put the plug facing straight out into the case glass where most people don't have enough room. Then they make them so thick that vertical mounts do not get enough airflow because in most cases the fans will be right up to the glass. I can see a lot of new full tower cases being sold in the near future.
Jay started this
Lol...He also said Nvidia won't launch 40 series cards this year, he also said AMD cards will not be competitive at least in 3 years
I hate to defend Jay as he's said a lot of things that make him look bad, but in this case it really wasn't his fault. He was just reporting what Zotac had reported, so he isn't the originator of the story, but what he said doesn't help.
@@gillesjones7401 he is spreading misinformation to millions of people. Doesn’t matter
He made a great point. I already have a 1200w rog thor which is solid, but any news about even a small chance of failure is going to raise the question in ppls heads, whether the psu you have is going to be enough or do you throw a good 1200w psu to get another 1200w psu with a different connector? Honestly, from the overall response from psu manufacturers taking their time to bring out 3.0 and all these aib's adopting this without any concerns, as they would have to support warranty for issues, I'm a lot more comfortable with my current psu. Thanks for the video!
You are right it won't blow up your PSU, it'll just fried it
Thank you for doing this interview, I’m glad someone had some sense to bring in the context these other TH-camrs seem to want to forget for views.
This video aged well….
PCB space is a BS remark by this guy.... use common sense. The area reduced from going from say two 8pin to one 12pin is negligible and you aren't fitting anything extra in that space. Nvidia proved that when they literally lopped off HALF the PCB and AIB's still used 2-3 8pin. You are absolutely full of it and sound like you are being paid to make these claims.
Lets look at FACTS. The ampacity rating of 18 gauge wire is 10 amps at 60 Celsius. This means that each single 12v wire in the 6/8pin connection is capable of 10 amps thusly 120 watts per wire. There are THREE 12v wires in the 6 pin, that means 360 watts no problem. The 8pin adds two extra grounds, which means less impedance, which means power flows more freely through the 18 gauge wire. Thusly you edge out more power. In the case of the "PCI-SIG" claims, the 6pin is only capable of 6.75 amps and the 8pin 13.5 amps thanks to two extra ground wires. In that ideal, they are doubling the power but NOT doubling the grounds.... But that still makes no sense. 6.75 divided by 3 wires is 2.25 amps per wire.... That isn't anywhere near close to 10 amps at 60c..... now you could argue "they wanted to keep temps down" but the PVC coating on those wires doesn't melt until 105 Celsius.... those 12pin connections that were "melting" in the news were hitting 130-150 Celsius temps.... all for "600w of power" okay lets break that down. The ampacity rating of 16 gauge (the required gauge size for the new 12 pin connection) has SIX 12v wires and SIX grounds. That would relate to 600 divided by 6 is 100 watts per wire. 100 watts divided by 12 volts equals 8.33 amps. That isn't even CLOSE to the 10 amps ampacity rating of 18 gauge wire.... So TWO 8pin connections, would not only MATCH the positive 12v wire count, but would have essentially 4 extra grounds. SIX 12v wires, and TEN grounds.... you are telling me that can't handle the power of a 12VHPWR cable? LMAO. PCI-SIG is lying. Now if PCI-SIG MEANT that each wire is capable of 6.75 amps per wire, that would make more sense to me. That would mean 6.75 amps times 3 equals 20.25 amps total multiplied by 12 volts equals 243 watts. On a single 6 pin connection. AND IT WOUDL STILL be below the 10 amp per wire ampacity rating at 60 Celsius.....
This whole connection standard smells of BS. Why? Because Nvidia originally invented the 12 pin connection, patented, and then used it on their 3000 series FOUNDERS cards. every single founders card has a 12 pin connection. NO ONE ELSE wanted to use it. Because I THINK they didn't want to pay nvidia for its use (as they owned the patent). So Nvidia may have either SOLD the patent to PCI-SIG or PAID THEM MONEY to create their own 12 pin standard.... the latter would explain why the PCI-SIG 12pin has a different "keying" than Nvidia's patented 12pin (can't use 3090 founders edition cable/splitter on newer cards for example). But the other weird part? Nvidia is FORCING their board partners to use the new 12 pin standard. WHY? Why would Nvidia care if AIB's use 12pin or 2-3 8pin? it does NOT make any sense.... I KNOW FOR A FACT that ONE of the MANY reasons EVGA left Nvidia and stopping making GPU's, was because Nvidia was forcing the 12pin on their board partners. EVGA cannot make a super crazy OC card with limited power capability of a single 12 pin. IN REALITY, and following ampacity rules, that single 12pin is technically capable of 900 watts. 16 gauge ampacity at 60 Celsius is 12.5 amps, multiplied by 6 positive wires, multiplied by 12 volts, equals 900 watts. Meanwhile we know that a single 6pin is capable of 360 watts and should edge out more power thanks to 2 extra grounds on the 8 pin. But just using the 6 pin example, three 6pin would result in 1080 watts.... I would imagine three 8 pin could edge out about 1350 watts staying within the 60c ampacity rating....
TLDR this whole thing is BS and seriously made up by people who aren't real nerds and know nothing about electrical engineering. Hell everything I wrote above is basically electrical engineering 101, the stuff you learn the first week. Ohms law (amps times volts equals watts, and other such formulas) and ampacity ratings, etc. This all smells of bullshit to me. Nvidia was the FIRST online to publicly claim that 6pin was only capable of 75 watts and 8pin only capable of 150 watts. And then googling the pci-sig document they dont rate in watts they rate in amps. They claim 6.75 amps for 6pin and 13.5 amps for 8pin.... that's 81 watts and 162 watts respectively. EVEN IF we went with a rule of HALF ampacity rating, that would be 5 amps per wire, meaning 15 amps total, meaning 180 watts on the 6 pin. More grounds on 8pin means we could in theory improve throughput thanks to less impedance, PCI-SIG doubled power, so I will too. That means 360 watts on the 8pin. Two 8pin means 720 watts. Meaning two 8pin is more than enough. DOUBLING DOWN WCCF TECH did a test, and they showed 300 watts of power running through these 8pin connections and yet they were only running 30c.... AKA HALF the 60c ampacity rating. Its more than safe, there is no reason to develop a 12 pin standard that doesn't actually increase power output. IF they truly wanted to save room AND be "future proof" like the original 6/8pin standard, I would have at least thought of a 30 pin. 15 power and 15 ground. 15 power wires at 10 amps max, would be 150 amps total, which would result in 1800 watts max power throughput. all while being completely "safe". But how ridiculous would it be to FORCE a smaller gpu to use a 30 pin connection.... "but they could just use the old 6 or 8 pin standard" yeah so why invent a 30 pin anyway, when they can just use multiple 6 or 8 pin connections. I made you prove my point for me. The 12pin connection is bull!@#$.
On relation to sense pins.... useless. utterly useless. a power supply doesn't force power into your devices, your devices suck power from the source. think of the psu as water in a cup, the straw is the wires, and the gpu is you. You SUCK the water through the straw, as you need it. sometimes you take a small sip, sometimes you just chug away. that's how power supplies work. the sense pins will literally do NOTHING. it COULD limit power, by creating an artificial draw bridge between the cup and your mouth, like "oh you can only sip you can't gulp" which will do NOTHING but cause gpu's to crash when they need more power but aren't allowed to have it. we already have issues with transients where the gpu can jump to almost double the power draw for like 2 milliseconds and that can cause weak psu's to conk out and your pc turns off. adding the sense pins is ADDING a failure point.
and then he rambles on about redundancy with the three 8pin to one 12pin connection or four 8pin to one 12pin and that's just !@#$ing stoopid (yes stoopid, because its THAT stupid). if we needed redundancy then current gpu's would have DOUBLE the connections (so your 3090 with three 8pin would have SIX for redundancy). STOP speaking nonsense. you are lying to people and its making everyone dumber for listening.
@@goblinphreak2132 It's not that the 8-pin connector couldn't carry more wattage. We don't need a 2-page high-school Physics explanation. We've seen that the 8-pin EPS connector and PSU-side connectors can do 250+ watts safely. Rather, it's that the whole ecosystem is built around it being specified for the lower amperages and they cannot simply change that on a whim. So a new connector had to be created for us to get more power in the same space (not that we needed to; I'm not making excuses for Nvidia).
And I don't think you understand what sense pins do. They're simply ground connections to tell the GPU what wattage the cable and PSU are rated for. If the GPU senses a certain pattern of open and ground pins, it knows to only pull, for example, 300 watts. It's the GPU limiting its own power, not the PSU limiting the GPU's power. This is done to allow for cheaper PSUs and cables that don't support the full 600 watts. FYI, there are sense pins on the PCIe 8-pin connector too. They check if 6-pin connector has been plugged in or the full 8-pin.
Somebody has to play devil’s advocate here. The issue is not about power connectors. It’s about the amount of power these 40 series cards draw. So I have to go out and buy a new freaking power supply just because of this power hungry card.
They don't look bad
As a first time PC builder I just bought Cooler Master MWE Gold V2 non-modular PSU for 79 euros / dollars. If I decide to upgrade my RTX 3070 to let's say RTX4080 or RTX4070 what adapter do I need and where do I plug the adapter in my PSU? Sorry for the newbie question. :D JohnnyGuru probably laughing at me right now. EDIT: Does the adapter go to 8 (6 + 2) PIN PCIE cable? EDIT2: Do the apapters come bundled with GPUs?
didn't age well. stuff blew up
Wait what? What happened?
I have the utmost respect for Jonnyguru and his history in the industry (I read his reviews since almost day one back on the old site) but in this case he's dead wrong. 55A for 10 hours is not a corner case. Overclocked 4090s can reach a TGP of 650W. That's 54A under ideal conditions, and using his own low limit of 11.4v it's 57A. And the stress on the 12VHPWR connector is not a corner case either. Mini ITX is one common example (yes, there are mini ITX cases that can fit a 3090 Ti/4090, and the cabling is very tight). Mini ITX is typically running SFX/SFX-L PSUs which are probably more likely to voltage droop than full size PSUs. And scoffing at full load for 10 hours is kind of ridiculous - besides stress testing, there are plenty of creator loads that last longer than that. I run CUDA 4K video AI upscaling & frame interpolation workloads that can take 16 hours for a feature-length motion picture.
Another reason for 12VHPWR sideways stress is the stupid triple/quad 8-pin adapter. Those 3-4 cables plus the adapter itself are super heavy, especially since most PCIe 8pin cables have two connectors each so there is several inches of unused dangling cable-plus-connector on each of the cables. That whole heavy assembly puts a significant side load on the 12VHPWR. That stress would be largely alleviated if you had a single 12VHPWR cable from the PSU, but as Jonny pointed out, Corsair didn't implement that connector, so isn't it slightly self serving to ignore the cable weight stress caused by not having it?
I think it would be preferable from a safety standpoint to use the GPU support bracket that comes with many large GPUs to support the 12VHPWR adapter assembly instead of the card itself.
i loved the part where the youtube subtitles interpreted PCIE Express 5 as "Pizza Express 5". that sounds amazing, i want Pizza Express 5 in my life
No but it looks like it has a good chance of burning the house down 😆 Applaud Nvidia since gas is so high we now can use our 1600 dollar gpus as firestarters thanks
6:34 I've seen four melted adapters this week. There could be an issue.
true, something is going on and must be properly addressed before someone gets hurt , then again one can argue it could be done on purpose , nvdia is looking into it and is in contact with the redditer , its annoying me since im picking up mine in a couple of days
@@rabih1978 My 4090 is still in the box. I have 60 days to return it, so I am waiting for more information.
@@daverhodus it seems the problem is the cheap adapter nvidia supplied, search it, the adapter is soldered so bad
@@rabih1978 I just did. Hopefully they can just send out new adapters.
@@daverhodus they have to, I'm getting an atx 3 power supply, and using the cable it provides not touching the nvdia adapter, don't wanna set my house on fire nor damage a card that cost me 3200 aud
I am getting a 4070ti in a few days, i do wonder if i should get a cable ready instead of using the adapter supplied.
Does either the AX860 and AX 1200 of the older models still work well with the new boards, and CPU's and Graphics cards? If I wanted a intel 13900k and a Nvidia 4090, will both of the above power supplies be sufficient?
The AX 1200, if it has enough pcie-connectors, will certainly work. AX860 depends on the overclocks. If you oc your 4090 and have a 13900K oc to draw 300W, you are in trouble. If you scale down the cpu to draw only 150W (what leaves you with plenty of performance) as well as the 4090 to like 300-350W (also not much of a loss there) you are way inside safety limits.
What I didn't understand (or missed) is that the new connector with the sense pins will surely need a new PSU with the ability to sense through those pins. If you just use the older connecters and older psu's there is no communication through those wires. Maybe it's not needed but they are saying that's why those pins are there. Great video - I've just subscribed👍
Just got rog Thor 1200w, should I return it and wait for atx 3.0?
No. That'll be just fine.
So.i have a 3090ti, and a 12900k 4 nvme, 360mm cooler all that crap, and a corsair rm1000x psu, I think that's the model, have it plugged into something monitoring watts, and it rarely goes over 850 for the entire system, so I don't think people need to freak out amd get these 1600w new power supply just for a 4090
This is what we need to hear and from industry professionals 😇💪🤩👍. Great to see you Andy getting people like Jonny on your channel to debunk myths about this new spec were transitioning to with new psu’s and GPU’s currently.
Soo what’s considered old spec psu. I got 1200 Corsair AI is that considered old spec
As an engineer the moment I looked at the plugs I knew they weren’t up to the job - no amount of damage limitation will change that
I won’t be buying any nvidia 40 series card
Then you are a failure of engineer
@@JohnOLooney Oh wow, man RTX 4090 sure was badly dissapointing (except in performance) an d this was actually true. Not only it's a graphics brick, but now a sparky graphics brick.
@@MJ-uk6lu early adopters always take a chance - at least it can be returned for a refund under warranty, unless of course they used a scalper and bought it effectively second hand, then it is an expensive brick yes.
The plug isn’t up to the job and as an engineer my eyes almost have a meter built into them now 😊
I think we will certainly see a revision to these connectors soon
What about daisy chain cables from a single 8 pin connector I have an AX1200i, I'm looking to get a 4070ti or 4070 soon, is it ok to use 2 daisy chain cables from 2 8 pin outlets or 1 daisy chain and 1 8-pin from 2 8-pins from this PSU? Will this be sufficient to power either card?
Corsair had to apologize on JonnyGuru's behalf for spreading misinformation against Gamer's Nexus 🤦♂🤦♂
Hi didn't talk about corsairs 12vhpwr adapter that Comes with only two pci 8 pin connectors.
So to my understanding Corsair is going to release cables like 4x8 pin Type 4 with 16 pin on the other end for the GPUs? Are digital PSUs able to split the load for each 8 pin cable equally?
Parallel conductors split load naturally, they’re all on the same rail after all
Corsair has a 12 pin with two 8 pin connectors for the 30 series cards. They also have a 16 pin with two 8 pin connectors for the 40 series cards for there PSU’s that are rated for 600 watts with only two 8 pin connectors. I just got one for my 3090ti FE card and have a Corsair HX1200 PSU and it works great. The video tells you why there are so many 8 pin connectors on these adapters that come with the video card’s.
Glad you put this video out. I found the videos claiming non 3.0 atx power supplies would smoke it laughable. Most of these tech TH-camrs aren’t engineers and don’t understand how it works.
which PCIE 5 cable would you recommend for Corsair AX1200 PSU?
So can I piggy back one pcie cable to the card for the 4th adapter?
Is the 600W PCIe 5.0 12VHPWR Type-4 PSU Power Cable Astron or NTK or what?
aged like absolute MILK.
MILKED
I'm confused still. The video mostly seems to say existing power supplies are ok for 40 series. But early in the video he says he heard the 40 series won't power on without those two sense pins, despite it not being the spec.
So how are existing PSU's ok if the 40 series requires the two sense pins? Can the adapters provide those two sense pins? I bought a 1300 P+ from EVGA a little while back and I'm really hoping I can use it for the 4090 but it sounds like it won't power on?
The sense wires terminate to ground so will still work fine.
@@eTeknix Hmm, seems weird if they can just be terminated to ground to even check for them. Ok, thank you!
Help, please. I still don't know if my Corsair 1500i is compatible with the new 4090 GPU. Will the connectors connect?
Thanks for this video. eTeknix both you and Jonny Guru put my mind at ease with my EVGA 1300W PSU that was geared towards the 30 series cards to work without issues on 40 series cards.
Is 850w really enough to handle 850w and a r9 5950x?
So I have an EVGA 1000W G5 Gold Supernova currently... I am planning to upgrade to the 4090 from a 3080ti. Is there any new cable I would need? Or would it just be a plug and play with what I already have...
Need an adapter cable that connects more than 1 8 pin PCIe connector to create the new single 12 pin. It will work fine with no issues with a new GPU.
i want an adapter for flex psu for dual 8 pin or the 16 pin connector
Will the 4x8 pin adapter work on my Corsair ax1200? Corsair came out with a 12 pin adapter but it is t compatible with the ax1200.
Then What else those ATX 3.0 form factored motherboards have extra ?
Will that ATX 3.0 Boards be supported by previous higher wattage PSU ? (which wasnt come up with 12 pin pcie)
very nice video, probably the most useful one i seen on the subject so far.
interesting to hear about the 4090 not turning on with a 12pin connector, maybe a follow up on that?
Hey, thanks for the kind words.
Maybe, if there are more questions that still need to answered to go along with it too.
@4:55 - so the RTX40 series will not work at all without a ATX3.0 connector that links the sensing pins from the GPU to the PSU... ?
If the adapters were purely dumb adapters, this would be the case. However, Nvidia has stated that their adapter has active circuitry in it that communicates with the card about the power available, which is then based on how many 8-pin cables you connect to it. If you connect 3 8-pins to the adapter, the card will run at up to 450W. If you connect 4 8-pins, the card's power limit will be unlocked and you get extra overclocking headroom. Presumably most third-party adapters will be similar.
I really want to get a 4090, I own a Seasonic Prime Ultra 1000 titanium, so a cable mod adapter for instance will be jus fine without issues or drawbacks compared to getting a new atx 3 psu? Should a 3*8 be fine?
Of course. The new 12 pin connector is just a different form factor. How you get that power to the 12 pin on your GPU doesn't really matter. Be it through an adapter, through whatever, IT WILL work as long as the supplied power is enough, of course.
@@dobrescusilviu4189 I will order the 90degree adapter from cablemod and hope it will be fine, I'm worried about the bending issue..
@@asryan7582 As long as the adapter itself is made with quality in mind, it will be perfectly fine. Just make sure to never order the cheap stuff, always do a bit of research (user reviews, etc) before buying anything related to adapters/cables. You really don't want a 2$ adapter for your 2.5k$ GPU.
@@dobrescusilviu4189 cablemod should be fine I suppose
@@asryan7582 Yeah they have a solid reputation.
It’s still somewhat unclear what the pros and benefits are of for example using the adaptors included with many of the 4000 series cards and using the cables that companies such as Corsairs will be providing for 4000 series cards.
A direct cable is always going to be better than an extension as with any form of extension or adapter, you're adding in another variable.
i think if someone is buying all new pc parts like ddr5 new gen boards and cards why not just grab a new ATX 3.0 power supply to be safe im mean even if your just upgrading your card just change your power supply better safe than sorry
@8:42 - It does have enough time to drop the voltage, the connectors and wires have enough thermal mass such that they don't heat up
Any thoughts on using 750W for rtx4090?
Don't
@@fireonawire rtx 3090 5950x was doing fine on SF650 platinum. (power draw
With 4 plugs feeding into 1 connector at the GPU you end up with 12 power and 12 ground wires feeding into 6 power and 6 ground pins. (4 of the 16 pins are for data). This will require wires to cross. Since electricity goes through the path of least resistance, if you have 1 path that is better than the others, that path will get more juice than the others. Is it enough to cause problems? Spreading out 450w over 4 plugs wired that way leaves the potential for 225w over 1 single 8 pin connection. If someone uses a set of old crappy cables then it absolutely can cause problems. Quality cables that most current PSU suppliers provide should be fine but someone is going to use old cables and daisy chain 8 pins because they only have 3 cables and start a fire.
If only you'd watched the video.
Of course it won't blow up my PSU, it won't even fit into my case.
Finally covered by a TechTuber. I try telling others the truth and nobody bats an eye - have a TechTuber tell it and everyone loses their mind.
Best quote "...the person just bought a 1200 watt power supply and now you're telling them that they need to buy another 1200 watt power supply that's exactly the same that has the connector..."
Are you sure about that? So if i use an RTX 4090 on an 1000w 30 euros psu it will work?
We dont even have the ATX3.0/PCIE5 PSU's yet. So who knows what will happen until mid December new PSU launch?
so my ax1600i is going to be okay with rtx 4090 right?
25:20 im a bit confused i thought the new ATX 3.0 could handle power excursions double the wattage of the PSU and the ones currently on the market not, so you would pay for that capability as well and not just the 12 pin cable. And hence wouldnt be «exactly the same».
Well, this aged badly. Could we please get an update on the situation from your perspective?
Still gathering facts and garnering research :)
When can we get these ATX 3.0 PSUs?
Why are all techtubers giving NVidia ANY publicity whatsoever about their new cards after the pricing scam they are trying to pull? Are you guys effin kidding me???
Hi, just got a 4090 on order from Best Buy. My PSU is 850w I think, but I have a spare one that I don't use (Thermaltake Toughpower GF1 850w). Will it work to use that only for the GPU?
no
@@Hexmail787 Thanks, from what I see it can technically be done, but probably not advised. It would require shorting 2 pins on the 24 pin motherboard cable, which can be done with a cheap adapter, but of course there is no motherboard to communicate back if something is wrong so again probably not a great idea.
Nvidia won't blow up my PSU ....Because they will never have a product IN my PC whilst ever they continue to practice their abhorrent business practices; which I'm sure will never change because there's a bit more money without morals.
Fastest 28 mins i've recently watched, interesting stuff if you're a tech head,
Thanks to Jonny for taking time to clarify what's going on and thanks to you Andy for doing this informative piece
So the guy from Corsair, whose company doesn't offer the new PCIe 5.0 and ATX 3.0 PSU, is telling you that you don't need to worry... Priceless...
I know, right?
Just on the connecter wattage calculation as he got it out by 100.
Minifit Jnr = 3x8x11.4 = 237.4w
Minifit HCS = 3x10x11.4 = 342w (not 242)
So, the Corsair cables will run over 300w per 6pin or 8pin lead.
It was interesting to know that the 6pin can supply the same load as an 8pin, but it makes perfect sense when you think about it.
What I have seen is third party cable extensions that were not fully seated melt.
I think it's safe to say that Jon mis-spoke when he said 242 watts, as we were talking about it before and he clearly said 342 watts to me in regards to it.
@@eTeknix Yea that's what it sounded like. Really really good info from him, debunking many myths.
So if I’m interpreting this right you can use a single pcie cable to a gpu that uses less than ~240w using a Jnr cable and a single cable with a gpu that uses less than ~340w with a HCS cable?
@@fireeye2209 Yes, though there are a few caveats which suggest you allow some headroom:
1. This is the limit; you should try and be well under it
2. Adaptors will reduce this, and cheap adaptors probably have a lower limit
3. The PSU has to support the power, so check out it's label for the 12v rail and if it is a cheap PSU assume it may not be capable of that
4. If using a 6 pin count the wires. Most have 3x12v wires, but some may only have 2.
I would probably go with Jnr
Thanks for alleviating my concerns!
Do you think this cable works for RTX 4090?
CableMod C-Series Pro ModMesh Sleeved 12VHPWR PCI-e
yes it will. but check the wattage rating for the cable.
So a max'd out 650W GPU, with bent cables, running for 10 hours straight can burn down. Sounds like a typical marathon gaming session honestly. I don't typically bend PCIE power cables unless necessary, but I imagine in some SFF cases and/or with large GPUs (4000 series are ginormous btw) this would get your cable bend radius requirement checked.
After you’ve put 55amps through and done it 30 times in a row. Then yes. So never going to happen.
So make slightly bigger pins and connectors? Making more of them, only consume more space requirements, while increasing the pin sizes by 15%, will not only give greater surface area, but also mass for conductivity, but won't require near as much space for transference of electrons...... seems that this is more of a profit increase for precious metals vendors than it it really is to resolve the issue on hand..... Previously when more power was required, you installed a bigger cable, or connector.... or simply made a bigger power generator. Now we increase the pin numbers, make them slightly smaller, increase the cost of the wiring not only by the number of wires, but insulation costs separating them.... when will this end? Everyone needs profits, but the top end people who say "yay or nay" do not need another hundred million in their pockets because they have personal spending problems and they want to fleece everyone on the bottom end.....
There is a misnomer from the Bible involving this, and the truth of the matter is "For the love of money, is the root of all evil." Money in and of itself is not evil, the love of money is. It drives the majority of crimes. It drives the majority of sins. It is what it is. A simplification of the bartering system, but there are those who hoard it for the sake of having vast amounts of it.... and for what? To be buried with it? To pass it off to children who will only use it to snort coke up their noses and meth their days away from trust funds? There is no other reason to increase these things than to profit others.
so will my Corsair HX1000i be enough with the adapter in the 4090?
Yes
Well, it depends what else you connect to it. If you're also running your dishwasher and AC, through an adapter, to your HX1000I, then no, it will not be enough :)
YAY, I don't have to upgrade my PC Power & Cooling MKiii "850w" PSU 🥰it can actually put out over 900 watts to the components, effectively a 1000+ watt PSU as most other PSU's are rated at power from the wall
IMO what does help is a PSU with low voltage ripple, will actually run cooler and more stable as the components don't have to fight the ripples as much which manifest as extra wear/heat on capacitors and components
So I been working on consumer vehicles since. 2005. My only job now is to diagnose and repair electrical systems. Diagnostic of vehicle systems. Some light repair. Programming. And I work on circuit boards. One would be surprised the amperage they some times push on a 18-20 AWG wire continuesly. So when these new PSU specs came out and the new GPU power specs came out the worry for me was not in the PSU, wiring, terminal pins and connectors. It was more in the end user abusing the product or in manufacturering of the products. Yes you have crap products at times.... Gygabyte PSU...
So my evga supernova 1000G+ will be ok for 4090? I need help please guys :D
Easily lol.
Well considering the latest videos from jay and Paul based on Igor labs article this video has aged like milk. There is a fundamental design flaw in the way the connector is manufactured l. Are you going to revisit the statements made by yourself and Guru.
Yep. And am doing the research now because we always back things up with fact.
only thing yall didnt address is the 8 pin connects overcurrent on one side
Thanks for this..Not sure what's happened to Jay since the EVGA story, but he's really going downhill with his vids. Please keep up the unbiased vids and let's all stick to the truth and real science behind tech! Thanks
He is all for clicks now
Dont pretend this is new, hes been heavily going after click bait for years, and unsubbing to him was the right decision. The last things I watched was 2 years ago with a couple of reviews of Ampere and they were lazy, so Im missing nothing.
What you said is good and fine, but I still humbly disagree with their approach here. If you have data that an extreme bend near the connector may cause pin connection fidelity issues that could lead to a fire, don't hide the data and try to downplay it. Instead just release a PSA and educate everyone. From inexperienced builders, to small form factor builders, to just janky case layouts at times, there are lots of opportunities to put pretty extreme bends in many types of cables. I bet we're almost all guilty of some pretty extreme bends on ATX 24 pin cables in order to make that 180 degree turn from behind the motherboard up and over into the top-down style plugs on most motherboards. I know that's unrelated, I'm just pointing something out.
It's better to just tell the public to be careful of something and explain why they should be careful of it. I don't expect them to make a connector and cable system that's validated to fly to the moon, but if they see any possibility of slight misuse/mistakes causing a possible heat/fire hazard, just tell us. I won't hold it against them. I'll just be extra careful not to make crazy bends if it ever comes up. And I'll tell others in one sentence not to make a heavy bend on the PCIE power cable near the connector because it causes excess resistance and therefore heat due to pins not contacting perfectly. That's a much better take on this rather than trying to obfuscate the information, belittle those who have concerns, and pretend like no one has ever bent a cable before. There's a better way to address things, period.
@@Jermdizzle They do test for the average consumer. 99% of us will install the video card one time and never touch it again for years until we upgrade. But if you want to exaggerate and put out click bait showing how someone will overly bend a cable 25 times as they put their card in, then the average consumer will call you out as well. I guess we'll see how many average consumers file a class action lawsuit in the years to come vs the TH-camrs who have to pump out false videos for a paycheck! Time for smart people to go get a real job and stop producing crap on TH-cam!
I think he is just saying whatever makes people buy products. Instilling fear and doubt left and right.
We need more Johnny Guru, actual legend
Im glad I watched this video
I pre-ordered a 13900k and a Maximis Hero,gonna grab a Strix 4090 on release
I've been quiet pissed that I was going to have to wait until Dec to complete the build with a 3.0 seasonic
What sort of work do you do?
Automotive industry
@@NoSend901 Lol. I meant for the PC.
Jonnyguru has had some horrible backlash to the point even corsair has reached our apologizing on his behalf! Lol
So, if you don't have a 16 pin 12vhpwr cable, your RTX 4090 will not turn on?!
Did I hear that right?
thats what he said, news to me as that was not how it was described on the documentation.
the adapter cable will come with your 40 series GPU
My bad. I wasn't clear. The two sense wires are terminated to ground. So while the card isn't supposed to post when the sense pins aren't present (supposedly) the adapter DOES terminate those to ground so the card will work no matter what.
@@jonnyGURU Thank you for the clarification 👍👍
Awesome interview and awesome questions! Very well done!
ok, so I have a HX1000w 80 plus platinum from corsair powering a 12900K and maybe a 4090. nvidia recommends a minimum of 850W for the 4090 FE
With Corsair new cable it makes sense because they recommend 1000W PSU for 450W GPU and this is probably the spac of Nvidias Founders 4090. If by any chance You would go and buy custom OC 4090 that can be in the range 450-600W so 1200W PSU according to Corsair.
@@haczi cool!! Im going for the FE
well that aged welled
Revisits this video after Toms Hardware posts evidence of an RTX 4090 melting itself and cable...
Good but also who is going to buy a 4090 now they are retailing for over 2k. Even those of us who normally go high end are reconsidering now if its even worth it
Its less about the Power Supply itself in my experience vs people or PC builders trying to use "fancy and eye candy" cabling resulting in the use of cheap cables that melt or catch fire.
This video has NOT aged well... ohhh dear, more people coming forward with melted power connectors. Credibility down the window on this one Jonny. It's time to face facts.
And mind you, these cards are recent as time goes on it will only get worse from there. The worst is that most of the time if you don't detach the cable you wouldn't be able to tell it's frying...many owners might be just unsuspecting at this point. All of this to save some space on a humongous card, I think a massive recall is on its way.
good news for AMD since they won't be adopting this 12vhpwr
Oof, this comment has not aged well.
@@KeiserHound why do you say that? have you seen the latest video by Gamer Nexus on those cables? they did all kinds of extensive testing and scanning and have shown that ALL the cables have issues and can cause these high resistance high temp issues. The way the connector slots in is so badly designed. Truth is not on your side mate, they need to go back to the drawing board on this one.
@@wibblewobble1934 your response tells me you didn’t watch the video because the conclusion was all cables are capable of failing, same with the old connector. Mind you there’s a difference between “are failing” and “capable of failing”. these connectors just have less tolerance than before so people aren’t doing the simple step of insure it’s plugged all the way. You can quote gamers nexus all you want, but do it properly next time. This original video also mentioned how the 12pin was originally nvidia idea, but the new 16pin was a collection of additions meant for standardization. All the facts are there, why are you cherry picking words?
@@KeiserHound So you didn't watch the latest Gamer Nexus video and don't have all the facts, ok got it cool :)
If chances are zero than how the hell it happened? Only because in your use scenario it's highly unlikely doesn't mean it's impossible or not gonna happen with dozens if not hundreds of people.
Just picked up the new ATX 3.0 psu 1000w hopefully that is enough for 4090 and 7700x on Asus extreme board
Only the braindead feed Ngreedia with that insane 4090 price.
I have more questions after listening to this. So if you don’t have the sense pins the 40 series cards won’t power up? So you need an ATX 3.0 power supply for the new cards? The splitter cables sense pins can’t connect to anything within existing PSU’s unless there’s some type of resistor or something to trick the 40 series cards into thinking the sense pins are connected.
The two sense wires are terminated to ground. So while the card isn't supposed to post when the sense pins aren't present (supposedly) the adapter DOES terminate those to ground so the card will work no matter what.
@@jonnyGURU Thank you
Really useful video - plenty of great questions answered
Thanks :) Glad it helped.
Thank you for the clarification 👍👍
The best 40 series coverage so far.
Hopefully that's reflected in the views!
Oddly comforting video thanks guys
I think they put the phrase "It just works" in a new level.