Arren Kae
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 ส.ค. 2024
- Kreia tells the exile that she knew the handmaiden's mother, Arren Kae. Always remember, the galaxy is bigger than the Jedi and Sith. Becoming a force user is not a binary choice. There is no evidence suggesting that the force cares for either faction.
Note: Many KOTOR 2 fans subscribe to the theory that Kreia is Arren Kae.
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#StarWars #KOTOR2 #Expandeduniverse
Anachronistic Mockery: Well of course I know him. He's me.
HK-47 underrated comment
Hello there HK - 47
Statement: I think he’s me
@@Hk-ox4bb you would be useful In my army and I can bring back Revan if you like.
@@darthsidious47
Statement: we would have to see meatbag
Lol, Kreia inserting the "beautiful" comment in there about herself.
If she actually is Arren Kae, that is. All evidence to support the fan theory is circumstantial and nothing has been confirmed so it may very well be wrong. (though I like to think she is Arren Kae yes LOL)
lololololol
"And she was said to be a skilled warrior, beautiful, super hot, had a six pack, and was totally based..." I can just hear her saying that ahahahaha sneaky Kae letting a little bit of vanity slip through the Kreia facade XD
"She was the baddest bitch in the Jedi Order"
"And she was... Said to be..."
Her tone makes me think she was describing herself through the eyes of people she's disgusted by, likely other jedi or men who were interested in her. When she talks about the Echani sparring stuff, I think she makes it clear that the Echani care more about strength and combat ability than beauty, so maybe for her, she was disgusted whenever someone would chase her just because she's hot.
I believe the Kae = Kreia theory 100%. Her delivery of the lines describing Arren Kae has such echoes of Palpatine talking about Darth Plaguis' apprentice. The Disciple recognises her when she is revealed, and I truly believe her anger at you accepting the Handmaiden into your crew is properly explained with her line about how family can have a strong influence, and how that line should end. Also about Kae, her body was never recovered which is Star Wars shorthand for "she alive". Also, c'mon "I am the mark of such disloyalty, it is said such things run in the blood", both the Handmaiden and her sisters frequently refer to the fact that she has the blood of disloyalty, of betrayal. When her sister ponders why The Handmaiden would betray them the response is "you know why, she bears the face of her mother...". If it's a coincidence in writing it's one that blows all the deliberate writing out of the water.
I fully buy into the kreia = kae interpretation but I think it was unintentional.
When Chris Avallone (Lead Writer) was asked if Kreia was Kae, he replied with "Good Catch," which if I remember correctly, I think is a phrase he has used in the past for when fans have come up with interpretations that fit the game, but were unintentional.
But at the end of the day, it doesn't really matter if it was intentional or not.
the psychic recognition of "betrayal" by Atris' loss of Brianna was what did it for me. Very clear symbolism.
That would make kriea the handmaidens grandmother
@@raymondmercado5637 no, it would make Kreia the handmaiden's mother.
Also, remember that Master Vrook said he thought Kreia died in the Mandalorian Wars.
Arren was said to be Revan's first master. She had to be at least 20 years older than him, so by the time Arren had Brianna, she was probably in her late 30's to early 40's considering Brianna was born in 3976 BBY. So if her birth was discovered about a decade later, she would be in her late 40's to early 50's, so by the time of the battle of Malachor V where Arren allegedly died, she would be in her mid to late 50's. Then ten years later, by the time of KOTOR 2, if Arren was alive, she would be around her 60's, which could be Kreia's age at this time.
"Revan returned to his first master to learn how to leave the Jedi Order"
2:30 "Don't fuck my daughter" - Kreia (Arren Kae)
The way she says "...said to be" at 0:22 definitely makes me think she's talking about herself. It sounds like she almost almost slipped up there.
"Manipulation is Kreia's strength, not combat."
Oh, I definitely think that 'Kriea' got involved in some 'Echani Rituals' in the past....
Oh yeah that’s another point she knows alot and we know handmaidens dad was an echani general so that’s another point in favor
I love how Kreia’s conversation about romance with m!Exile boils down to “Go to horny jail”, meanwhile her conversation with f!Exile boils down to “Men ain’t shit, don’t bother with them”.
"i suspect (the force) cares little for our codes and philosophies"
i miss this star wars
Hopefully, it’ll be transferred to more conscientious hands in the not-eternally-distant future and will make a comeback with material worthy of comparison to the better parts of the old EU.
Kreia just can't help herself going into detail how awesome her past self was.
Kreia: "Well of course i know her, she's me"
Lmao she even wears a Simlar cloak to obi wan
@@sebastiangibson9671 Yeah, hinting that she is a Kenobi, ergo proving that she is NOT Arren Kae…
@@mr.vorrnyvorrn2516 Except she could still be a maternal ancestor
Here is my analysis of the Kreia=Kae subject - *BEWARE: WALL OF TEXT BELOW*
I think she was, and there are many points in favour of this. It is highly likely it was at some point intended for them to be the same, but time constraints forced Obsidian to cut things and change the plot somewhat. Most points lend credence to them being the same, but some also go against this.
*In favour of them being the same person:*
• Both Kreia and Arren Kae are mentioned as being the first and last master to Revan (main evidence) - Revan was the Padawan to both of them:
Mical: *As a Padawan, Revan was trained by Master Kae before she was exiled.*
Kreia: At one time, *Revan was my Padawan* , in times past, long ago.
• To further add on this, the Jedi Council during the Exile’s trial all mention Revan’s master as ‘she’. If he had two female masters, it wouldn’t make sense to refer to his master as ‘she’…unless they were the same - maybe? (this is a weak point, I know)
• When Kreia speaks of Kae, she says “And she was… *said to be* ...a skilled warrior. Beautiful. And strong in the Force.” The way she says the bolded line…like, why would she hesitate? She used to know her! Surely, she would know what her skills were and what she looked like? Also, Jedi can usually feel the strength of the Force in other Force sensitives. In the light of this, it makes sense if she was actually talking about herself. Additionally, Atton mentions that Kreia at some point must’ve been quite good-looking.
• Kreia and Arren Kae were both exiled, but apparently for different reasons: Kreia for training Revan, and Kae for having a child. But lines in-game from Kreia and Mical implies that the former was exiled not for Revan’s fall, but something else:
-Kreia: But in the end, he (Revan) turned back to me. When he realized there was nothing more to be *learned* from the Jedi - *except how one could leave them forever.*
-Mical: And it is said that he went to his first and final master to *learn how to leave the order entirely, like she had.*
These lines imply that Revan came to Kreia shortly _before_ he joined the Mandalorian Wars - thus Kreia could not have been exiled because of her role in training Revan, as it implies that she had already left the order (although having left the Order doesn’t have to mean she had been exiled - not sure about this one: Can they really exile Jedi that have left the Order?). They do use the words ‘forever’ and ‘entirely’, which implies something permanent.
Also, Mical also says that Kae ‘left’ the Order, but he also says she was exiled - so are the two words being used interchangeably here (i.e. leave=exiled)? Highly likely if you ask me. So yes, the Council blamed Kreia for Revan’s fall, but she was most likely _already_ exiled before this.
• Both Kreia and Kae were less committed to the Jedi Code compared to many other Masters. We don’t really know much about Kreia’s teachings before she left the Order, but she most likely adhered to some of the teachings as she did when the Exile travelled with her (minus very dark side ideals). I would also guess that she was somewhat pragmatic, just as she was post-fall and post-Sith exile). She most likely taught her pupils to face the darkness within themselves, rather than flee from it. Thus, her many of pupils became more susceptible to the Dark Side, but those who didn’t fall, became much stronger for it (like Revan, but also the ‘True Jedi’ - the ones who followed the light, waged war to save others, and whom Mical says died on Malachor V, having been intentionally placed there by Revan).
Kreia’s unorthodox views of the Force most likely also gave her a curious resistance to the dark side still (most likely one of the reasons Revan placed her in low-orbit or on the ground of Malachor 5 when MSG was activated - also, Revan had Kae’s husband killed later, so he would definitely fear her, thus he tried to have her killed) - she was corrupted by a combination of the trauma caused by the MSG and the Trayus Academy (mostly the last though).
• A line also somewhat implies that Kae joined the Wars at an earlier point (maybe even before the Revanchists joined). Mical says this: “Revan had many Masters. Zhar, Dorak, *Master Kae before Kae left for the Wars.* " Thus, it is possible that she was with Yusanis earlier in the Wars, and when the Revanchists joined the Wars, Revan welcomed her to them. This can also explain why the Exile (eventually a high-ranking General near the end of the Wars) didn’t recognize Kreia from earlier; she fought more independently of the other Jedi and wasn’t specifically assigned to them. Also, since she had been exiled earlier, she wasn’t ‘officially’ a Jedi anymore - so she likely wasn’t tied to the other Jedi as much.
• Jedi are forbidden to have children, and Kae birthed a child (Brianna) some 25 years before KOTOR 2. Her birth was revealed almost a decade later, and Kae was exiled. Kreia’s age is probably around 55 by KOTOR 2 (use of the Dark Side makes her look older); she would be in her early thirties when she birthed Brianna, and in her forties when she was exiled. Consequently, she joined the Mandalorian Wars, where Revan welcomed her. She was presumed killed when the MSG was activated at Malachor 5 - _but the body was never found_ (the mention of this specifically is very much intentional). Kreia had also apparently joined the war and was presumed dead by the Jedi Order (Kavar specifically in the Enclave Scene). She doesn’t deny her involvement in the War to Kavar; in fact, she says it made her stronger.
• Also, it seems that not every Jedi on the Council blamed Revan’s master, so they were split on this subject:
Atris: We are not the ones who taught him!
Vash: *We take responsibility, Atris, not cast blame!*
Kavar: *The choice of one was the choice of us all. Revan’s teacher intended no harm.* And Revan had many teachers since.
Atris: Yet they all stem from the same source. Her teachings violated the Jedi Code and all who listen to the dark side, as they did the exile.
To add on why the Exile doesn't recognize Kreia when they meet: When Kreia mentions during the conversation that Kae participated in the Wars, the Exile can answer: *I don't remember her - are you sure?* The Exile seems pretty surprised about this. And we also know from Kavar that Kreia did participate in the Wars. This is most likely why the Exile doesn't recognize Kreia when they first meet on Peragus; she and Kae are in fact one and the same.
This was the missing clue that many couldn't explain: If Kreia was in the Wars, why doesn't the Exile, who was a general, recognize her on Peragus? But if the Exile doesn't even remember Kae from the Wars (and is actually surprised about it) , it is even more convincing that Kreia is Kae.
Dude, your comment is amazing and deserves more attention.
@@acethegray this is my greatest revelation of this decade. Star Wars is alive through Kreia, and through DJJ. The truth shall set you free.
Another point against: in the restored content Atris says Kreia told her to exile the exile.
@@acethegray Thank you! :)
Darth “Traya” + Arren Kae = Kreia. The middle of the two
court I never thought about this. Wow it was looking us in the face all along
she is both and she is neither
She was all 3 and yet she understood the force more than the Jedi, Sith, the in-between, and the non force sensitive. She was the closest to truly understanding it.
Take bits of her First and Second name and you get Kreia. Fitting how Part of the Light and Darkness create a New Name for a Woman whose alliance is seen as Grey for most of the game. We only see her in Darkness when she takes up the name Traya again.
210 iq
Why is Kreia so obsessed with the exile' s sex life.
Because Granny cares for you.
She doesn't want any more Force-sensitives in the universe. Her goal is to kill the Force as it impedes free will.
@@Bacxaber good point
Also that's her daughter... unconfirmed
cause she dosent want her daughter getting with the male exile
"Now that's a name I haven't heard in a long time"
Or "Of course I've heard of her she's me"
I honestly think she's angry with the player character over this because, as much as she has removed herself from familial connections to accomplish what she believes is right(ironically), she doesn't want her daughter enslaved to the will of the force.
She got quite some history behind her, which is why she sometimes appears to be so bitter, there is also regret in some dialogue about her decisions in the past for example.
Honestly, while I fully support the Kreia/Kae theory, I hope it's never fully confirmed. I love the element of mystery it adds to the game, the subtle connections, the insights and obscure references that leave us with a partial picture that we can't complete on our own. If this theory is ever confirmed, that element will be taken away, but I want it to last forever!
Let's be honest, Kreia being Kae is all but stated explicitly.
Kreia: You CAN'T teach her about the force. it is for the best!
Lightside Exile: But, you said that we should learn everything we can.
Darkside Exile: ...I'm going to 'corrupt' your daughter!
Palpatine talking about Darth Plaguis apprentice, and Thraya about Arren Kae. The same thing.
Revan was Arren Kaes Padawan.
Kreia IS Arren Kae.
"You!
I thought you died during the Mandolorian Wars!"
"Died?!
No...
Became stronger, yes!"
The new Legends book Supernatural Encounters: The Trial and Transformation of Arhul Hextrophon gives a more detailed explanation of Revan and Arren Kae's backstory that heavily implies she is in fact Kreia. It's a really cool book that tries to take almost the entire history of Star Wars and turn into into something like J. R. R. Tolkien's Silmarillion. It makes some cool connections and a few that at first I wasn't a fan of until I gave them more thought.
This is an excerpt from pages 838 to 839. Spoilers ahead.
Basically it explains why Revan and Ulic Qel Droma are so similar in their backstories, and I think it's something that benefits both characters since it intertwines the Tales of the Jedi Comics with the KOTOR games even more like they were originally planned to be. Revan is a man named Naak Qel-Droma, and everything Kreia said to Meetra Surik was her protecting Revan's true identity.
With the death of the redeemed Ulic Qel Droma and the murder of Valdhani at the
hands of her own people on Cathar, their son grew up without knowing his parents.
Only a few Jedi, including his Master, Arren Kae, knew the truth, seeing the name
‘Naak’ (“peace” in Mandalorian) sewn on the swaddling cloth that the Qel-Droma
babe had come wrapped in. Years hence, after ascending the ranks to become a
respected Jedi Knight, Master Kae disclosed to him the truth of his heritage.
Things might have turned out differently had not the corrupted politics of his day
changed Revan’s course. Disgusted by the Jedi Council’s apathy to the butchery of
the Neo-Crusaders who’d massacred the Cathar in an extreme and egregious interpre-
tation of the Canons of Honor, the young Qel-Droma and his friend, Alek, began a military campaign against the Mandalorians, causing several from the Order to join
them and triggering civil unrest.
Notwithstanding the victory upon victory they won,
the war saw them turning cold and hard as bit-by-bit they compromised their ethics.
Already teetering on the edge, the discovery of a Rakatan Star Map on Dantooine
and the Trayus Academy on Malachor V was a turning point for the partners, expos-
ing them to the fevered inveiglement and obscure incunablia embedded in Dark Side
lore, opening a window unto a sinister reticulation from the galaxy’s ancient past to
the present brutality of the Mandalorians, behind which some tenebrous hand
seemed to be steering events. These fears were confirmed by Revan’s defeat of Man-
dalore the Ultimate above Malachor V.
The successor of Mandalore the Indomitable who’d been killed on Dxun, Man-
dalore the Ultimate claimed to have recovered his Mask from the body of his prede-
cessor. That he never removed it in the presence of others and was regarded by his
followers as the Great Shadow Father was no whimsy. Early in his life, he’d been
given a vision on Shogun of the end of the Taung, but rather than fight against this
dark prophecy, he embraced it. The warriors of mixed races that his forerunners had
welcomed to fight alongside them he now called Mandalorians, giving them equal
share in the honor and bounty of conquest. To cement this unity, he never exposed
his Taung face, a symbolic gesture ostensibly representing the decline of his species in
favour of a uniform Mandalorian culture.
So begat a campaign of recruitment, drawing warriors from numerous worlds who
wanted to take down corrupt governments and contemptible peoples across the
galaxy. But evil overshadowed the thoughts and deeds of these Neo-Crusaders. When
Revan defeated Mandalore the Ultimate in hand-to-hand combat, taking the Mask he
wore which represented their highest authority, he learned from the dying leader that
the Neo-Crusaders and he had been puppeteered by a hidden Sith unlike all others.
This led Revan and Alek on a sodden trail to find the source, travelling from Rek-
kiad, where they hid the Mask, to Nathema, where they learned of the murder of Lord
Dramath by his son, Tenebrae, whom Marka Ragnos had titled Lord Vitiate.
So ghastly was this Vitiate that after putting his father’s spirit inside a holocron so he
could further torment him, he’d gone on to commit the ancient, execrable rite of
rakhkfrûm. Succeeding where others before him had failed, he absorbed all life from
the planet to give himself a lifespan beyond the count of years. From Nathema,
Revan and Alec learned of Dromund Kaas, and there, posing as mercenaries, they
came to infiltrate the Sith Empire under Darth Vitiate…who awaited their arrival.
Some say she didn't die, some say she might be in this very room.
Darth Traya's past is shrouded in mystery but from what is left of the ancient manuscripts and from what she said to the exile does lead me to believe that she was Arren Kae.
The best Jedi trick of all. Changing names! ;-)
Obi wan must have written down notes from kreia
So mad I'll never play this game again for the first time!
I've recently pondered this: Did Arren Kae join the Mandalorian Wars before Revan? There's some interesting dialogue that could indicate this:
Mical: Revan had many Masters. Zhar, Dorak, *Master Kae before Kae left for the Wars.*
And this one also:
Mical: As a Padawan, Revan was trained by Master Kae *before she was exiled.*
We know from Kreia that Kae joined the Mandalorian Wars after the "shame of her birth" was revealed, which was ALMOST a decade later (i.e. 10 years). Based on this and when the Revanchists joined the Wars, we can find out approximately when Kae joined the Wars.
We know Brianna is 25 years in KOTOR 2 (she was born in 3976 BBY, and KOTOR 2 starts in 3951 BBY). So approximately 15 years before KOTOR 2, Kae was exiled when her birth was revealed, and subsequently she joined the Mandalorian Wars; which means she joined it ca. 3966 BBY. According to the wiki, the Revanchists joined the Mandalorian Wars in 3964 BBY. If these dates are accurate, then Arren Kae joined the Mandalorian Wars around two years before Revan.
This is only if we assume 'almost' means 'slightly LESS than'. Kreia actually says the Mandalorian Wars happened 'almost a decade ago'; but in that case, 'almost' would indicate 'slightly MORE than'. But in general, almost is taken to mean 'slightly less than'. For instance: "You're almost 25 years old' generally indicates that the person isn't quite 25 yet, but a little less than than.
This also fits with Arren Kae = Kreia theory, based on these lines from Kreia herself and Mical:
Kreia: But in the end, [Revan] turned back to me. When he realized there was nothing more to be learned from the Jedi, *except how one could leave them forever.*
Mical: And it is said that he returned to his first and final master to *learn how to leave the order entirely, like she had.*
These two lines strongly imply that Kreia was no longer part of the Jedi Order by the time Revan wanted to leave the Order and join the Mandalorian Wars. The two most likely arranged a meeting while she fought in the Wars. Revan did welcome her to his side during the Wars, but she did fight more autonomously, explaining why the Exile is surprised to not remember Arren Kae. The Exile doesn't remember Kreia either when they first meet, which further supports that Kae and Kreia are the same person.
The problem being that the Disciple never mentions Revan's first master by name. Jedi master Kavarr also left for the wars. Fought in a few skirmishes in the early days, maybe even before the republic fully became involved, but then he came back. It could have been the same for Kae, and that's when she met Yusanis and then returned to the order. The disciple says that: "As a Padawan, Revan was trained by Master Kae, before she was exiled." But with Revan, I can't be sure if that means that Kae was necessarily his first. Zez Kai Ell says: "Kae and Zhar and the others of the Council failed Revan."
@@PapitoQinn Yeah you could be right about Kae having joined the Wars when the Mandalorians were still only targeting Outer Rim worlds. Though I still think Kae was exiled/left before Revan and went to fight the Mandalorians before him , as the dates do match with the dialogue. Kavar most likely fought in the 'early skirmishes' and protected the people on those worlds. This must've been before the Council sensed something was behind the Mandalorian Wars, as that was the main reason why they counseled caution and waited. Heck, even the Mandalorians believed Kavar would be the one to lead the Jedi against them during the actual conflict.
I'm not sure if the game mentions where Kae met Yusanis, but it's possible it does. Brianna at least says that Yusanis followed Kae into the Wars to be with her, as her spirit in battle matched his. So he joined her to be with her.
I know Obsidian had huge time constraints when developing the game, and the plot was likely revised at least a couple of times. That explains why some of the lore contradicts itself. One example is that Kreia was exiled by the Order for Revan's fall, when the game also states she battled in the Mandalorian Wars (so that couldn't be the reason), and Mical and Kreia also say that she had left the Order before this, which is why Revan sought her out (to learn how he might best leave the Order, "leave it entirely, as she had", and this: "in the end he turned back to me. When he realized there was nothing more to be learned from the Jedi, except how one could leave them forever"). You can't exile someone that's no longer part of the Order (though Kreia never uses the word 'exile', I think; she says they blamed/sentenced her for Revan's fall).
The KOTOR Campaign guide contradicts this, saying Kreia was exiled shortly after Malachor V, when Revan's fleet was still in the Unknown Region. She traced Revan's "footsteps" to Malachor V. Sith Assassins there welcomed her, recognizing her as Revan's former master, and she took on the title Darth Traya.
So I guess it all comes down to what 'headcanon' you prefer. Though the Campaign Guide does contain errors here and there, so it shouldn't be treated as gospel.
But it is interesting to note, though, when Zez says the line you mentioned: "There have been so many failures, by teachers who believed in the Code with all their being - Master Arca failed Ulic, as Master Baas failed Exar Kun, as Kae and Zhar and the others of the Council failed Revan."
Then Kreia says this at a time: "At one time, Revan was my Padawan. In times past, long ago. But Revan, when he had learned all he could, had other masters... *that fool Zhar, and other Jedi on other planets.* He learned from each." -- it's interesting that Zez mentions how Kae and Zhar + others trained Revan, and Kreia mentions herself and Zhar + others trained Revan. Another small indication that Kae is Kreia, possibly. Not to mention that Kreia never mentions Kae having trained Revan, which I think is a bit suspicious (though it's possible she does and I've forgotten),
@@PapitoQinn Yesterday, I made a post on the kotor subreddit, asking what reason Kreia was actually exiled for. I was lucky enough to get a reply from Snigaroo (regarded as the one with most kotor knowledge there), and this is what he said:
"It's entirely possible that [Revan] sought out Kreia *during* the war, after he had seen Malachor (not the battle, but the planet itself) and had come to understand what was truly driving the Mandalorians. It's a pedantic point, perhaps, but I think it's important to the extent that it clarifies that Revan might not have gone to war specifically at the prodding of Kreia.
Regarding Kreia, I don't think she was ever exiled. The Jedi Council wasn't unanimous about her blame as regards Revan's fall on Coruscant, as you point out. My gut feeling is that if they had passed judgement on her, as we see in the case of the Exile, their retrospective verdict probably would have been unanimous. I think that Kreia probably had her child, the Jedi had a large problem with that, and Kreia either agreed to leave the order peacefully or left it under political pressure from the Masters, but not at point of exile. She was not seen as a criminal, threat or dire rulebreaker, just one who had deviated too far from the Code to be kept around. And I think that's another point of worth to note, because if Kreia had been exiled, that would have meant something entirely different when Revan came to her to learn how to leave the Jedi. I think leaving the Jedi was probably a choice she made, even if under some degree of duress, and that strongly informs what Revan would have learned from her when he met with her to learn how to leave the Order behind himself; he would have seen it not as the Order forcing him out, but a choice made of his own volition for what he perceived as the greater good. As we know, this is how Kreia contextualized his actions, and I think is in this case a mirror of her own view about leaving the Jedi."
So Chris Avellone ever mention about whether Kreia the mother or not? Wiki it says shes human but...
He won't talk about it. It is kind of fun to keep the mystery going.
Papito Qinn I agree. Revealing such a thing would ruin mystery around Kreia
Echani Human Hybrids can exist btw.
The Light: Arren Kae
The Dark: Traya
The Grey: Kaeraya->Kreia
She might be her. She might not be her. I don't care, she still left a huge mark on the galaxy as a whole.
It is difficult to be male exile.Brianna and Visas always fight over me.Why can't I have them both? :P
You can prevent that by first maxing influence with Brianna, then you can do it with Visas. Male Exile knew how to do this by watching Keys to the Loading Ramp; that's why he knows that influence points should be gained from the mother hen first, who is domineering and easily becomes jealous. Once that is taken care of, the other hens can easily be 'influenced'.
But seriously, DON'T converse with Visas in any way after she first arrive on your ship, as it's very easy to gain influence with her then; this often leads to her influence surpassing that of Brianna; this prevents you from ever influencing Brianna again (you can never turn her to a Jedi).
*Arren Kae Kreia Darth Traya*
PERHAPS Kreia is not Arren Kae, just merely a lesbeian who "KNEW" Arren Kae. Kreia was betrayed by Arren, when Arren messed around with Handmaidens daddy and popped out a youngling. Thus Kreia fell to the dark side and became a bitter old cat lady. #jedibabymamadrama
Wait Wait kreia is her mother? Is she sowing the seeds if wanting a force-sensitive grandchild between the Exile and the handmaiden? Never have you wondered... if she submitted completely to you....
This theory that Kae and Kreia are the same person - I get the appeal, I really do, but I just don't buy it. I think its foundation is a bunch of coincidences that fans decided to connect the dots on. And while Chris Avellone did eventually say in some interview that he liked this theory, that was as far as he went; he never said that it was his intention as the writer.
Finally: my biggest problem with it is that there's no payoff to the theory. It never gets revealed to the characters, and there's no evidence to suggest that such a revelation would have taken place - so it's not like it was supposed to happen but just got cut like so many other things in TSL. If Kae and Kreia are the same person, then all that truth is doing is just standing awkwardly in the background.
That is what makes it so interesting, the mystery that it should never be confirmed. Something lurking in the background that adds unspoken depth.
Perhaps she knew this Arren? Possibly holds respect as well. I doubt the idea they are the same person but it would make some sense
There are arguments for and against the theory. I'm not sold on it either, but I understand why people want to subscribe to it. It makes things even more interesting.
I don't believe the Kreia Arren Kae theory. Kreia seems way too old to be her in my eyes.
I’d love to talk about this, find out why you think that. Kreia looks to be somewhere in her 60s, maybe late 50s with a hard life, right?
@@protatype7487 Yeah could be. Obi-wan was in his early 60s in ANH but the desert and harsh climate of Tatooine aged him.
@@ironinquisitor3656 Do we know how old Brianna is? Since the proposed idea is that she's Kreia's daughter and all, it'll be critical in nailing anything down.
@@protatype7487 She is 25 years when KOTOR 2 begins. I just posted a comment in this thread concerning that; you should see it if you sort the comments by 'New'.
@@darthtenebra5910 Mmm, thank you friend. It's solid research.
Kreia being Kae has been confirmed as not true yet people keep pushing it. Why?. Brianna confirms she honors the face of her mother you think she wouldn't recognize this in Kreia?. Kreia looks nothing like an older version of the handmaiden.
Did Chris Avellone confirm it during an interview?
@@PapitoQinn No he refused to say one way or another, its like the theory that Kreia is the entity in swtor, it makes literally no sense. We know Kreia went by the name Kreia as a Jedi not Kae which is an inconsistency.
@@darkshadowssonic I'm not completely sold on the theory either, and it seems that Avellone wants to keep the mystery going. Based on Atri's reaction to saying Kreia's name however, we know that while she was a Jedi she did not carry the name "Kreia." But the name "Arren Kae" is only ever mentioned by Kreia. I'm still not sure why you said that it was confirmed.
@@darkshadowssonic the entity thing doesnt make much sense, Kreiaia in SWTOR as an holocron or something dishing your character would be nice at some point though
The entity in SWTOR and the theory of Kreia being Kae are COMPLETELY different. People have absolutely no reason to believe that the entity in SWTOR is Kreia, other than their own made up ideas. Kreia being Kae has a lot of actual evidence to back up the claim. Whilst yes, both are just theories, one is simply fan made because of desperation for SWTOR to recognise/reference KOTOR 1 and 2 as much as possible.
I prefer Jolee more than Kreia. The dude are more funny and interesting to me. His self exiled in one place for far to long are the only downside. If only he traveled around and gain much more wisdom, he would be a much greater character.
Jolee is just a black dynamite expy of yoda. Nothing special.
@@kitosjek9541 Since when does Yoda believe people can turn away from the dark side once they've embraced it? Since when does Yoda believe love will save a person instead of condemning them? Jolee believes controlling your passions while being in love is essential. There is a character who shares the same va and species as Yoda but you label Jolee as one?