I like Warcry's initiative mechanic. Making the initiative roll also the source of special abilities makes for a fun trade-off where winning the initiative may result in your opponent having access to more special abilities, or more powerful abilities, for the coming round. In addition the wild dice mechanic gives some useful tools for players to tweak their roll more to their liking.
I really enjoy rules which keep units alive to act. Hobgoblin only makes "damage" count at the end of a round, so everyone gets to act, same as Alphastrike. Turnip has (usually) simultaneous firefights. Warmaster requires at least three damage per phase, so you need to go hard or go home. I spend time creating that army, I want to use it!
Not a wargame but in the board game Spartacus i like that a gladiator has x dice for attack y for defense z for speed and those also represent life points. Each damage you choose which dice to discard so they become weaker/slower as they get injured.
1) *Infinity's* ARO system that let's you feel like it's always your turn! 2) *Malifaux's* cheating card system that facilitates tough choices and great mind games! 3) *Moonstone's* card-based battle system that makes you actually feel like you're in an actual sword duel!
Fights of Fantasy uses an initiative/activation system similar to that used by Bolt-Action except that players put numbered tiles into a bag. They draw a tile for each unit or character during what’s called the marshaling phase at the beginning of a turn. The tile is then placed next to the respective unit or character and that is the order from lowest to highest that each acts in each phase for the duration of the current turn. The number of tiles equals twice the units on the board because certain leader and character traits and magic spells can cause/permit players to draw multiple tiles (they choose which one to keep) for a unit or character. Some spells allow a player to draw new tiles for a unit to make them act earlier or later in a turn (to help their own troops or hurt their opponent’s). At the end of the turn all the tiles are gathered up and placed back in the bag and the process repeats with the next turn. This randomization makes it challenging because you may need a unit to act at a certain time but the tile you draw isn’t what you needed. This sort of simulates battlefield confusion, fog-of-war, or unit hesitation. It means that players are constantly scanning the board to see which unit or character will be going next which helps keep people engaged in the game. It’s also a very simple, easy-to-learn process.
Mr. Welch, while he is mostly known for RPG's, has a saying as follows. "Good art can sell a bad book or game. But bad art or no art can simply kill a great game!" A good example of this is look at GW's books and packaging for their miniatures. Their games currently being made and sold have beautiful cover art on the books and the packaging for the miniatures beautifully shows off the miniatures and at least for 40k is color coded for each faction. But let's face it, the rules set for 40k are OK to good... at best. A good example of bad art/packaging is Kings of War. Their packaging for miniatures does nothing to show off the miniatures in the box and most of the time the photograph on the front of the box of the miniatures has them painted in a color scheme which blends in with the background & foreground that is using the same color scheme more often than not. More often than not, new players are sold on some if it looks cool, sounds cool or has a cool story/background/lore.
I recall my favorite mechanic or rule of original Warhammer Quest was what would occur between battles or dungeon runs. You could travel to a village, town, or city. Traveling to villages take less weeks than to city, but gives you less options for what you can do in the larger settlements. Things could randomly happen every week as you travel, like encountering travelers on the road or being waylaid by bandits who steal your gold. When in a settlement, you would spend gold every night to room and board and random things could happen in town too. Each passing week heals your model’s hp for the next battle, but exposes you to random event risks like muggings or being pickpocketed or getting tricked by swindlers or your models simply getting bored and going gambling and drinking risking losing gold or hp in a bar brawl (depending on how you roll on event tables). You could also visit establishments like alehouses, the governor’s mansion to curry favor, or even an underground chaos cult temple to pray to dark gods if you played a chaos warrior. There were no experience points at all in the game… to level up, you had to use gold - and only gold - to hire a specific trainer to train each of your models to the next level (which also takes time, thus requiring more gold spent for room and board), all while balancing buying supplies, gear, and potions, thus making saving and earning Gold in battles and dungeon runs the driving force in the game. Ingenious system. I don’t know any other game past or present that had something so immersive
Look in to Shadows Over Brimstone! It's WQ95 with cowboys meets cthulhu. It has towns between dungeons and fan content that adds to it. Dungeon Dive has a really good video series all about it.
Silver Bayonet has two great mechanics: 1. The winner of the initiative roll goes first but only with ½ their force. Then it’s the monster phase followed by the loser of the roll activating all their miniatures. Finally the winner activates the remainder of their troops. This approach allows the winner some ability to deal with the monsters/opponent but they then have to weather the storm. 2. Shooting and Melee attacks use 2d10s, a power and a skill dice with a target defence stat number to beat. The weapon either wounds on the power dice roll (eg Blunderbus) or the skill dice (eg fencing sword). Players also start the game with 1 re-roll for each dice which helps turn a 10 & 1 into something deadly. The Silver Bayonet game has taken over as our go to game this year. So much so that one of the group has reskinned it for space and the rules can be found at the Laser Bayonet FB Group. Oh and it’s all in one book (apart from the expansions - we’re off to the pyramids next year, what could possibly go wrong?)
The dice system has other effects down the line. Since your rerolls per dice type are limited, you don't want to overload your team with all one damage dice type. You can get additional rerolls by capturing objectives. A simple mechanic like that informing your entire team building strategy and game play priorities is good design.
I am done with "i go, you go" i dont want to say never but i will never play a game with that as a rule base again. alternating Unit activation has to be part of it.
The most thematic activation system I have come across is in Gaslands. The turn is split into phases represented by gears. What gear your individual car is in determines when it goes in the turn and what templates you can use for movement. Also one book and a big bag of second hand hot wheels, that's some superb cheap gaming right there.
I like the initiative mechanics in Rogue Stars, a small scifi skirmish game. You pick a model, then make an "activation roll" for that model. If you succeed, you activate that model and can then make another activation roll for the next one and so on, either until you're done with all your models or choose to let the opponent go. But, if you ever fail an activation roll, the opponent can steal the initiative and make their own activation roll.
Chain of Command by Too Fat Lardies has all or elements of all these three. The activation mechanic is deeper than Bolt Action, you have a fixed number of activation dice to use for all your stuff so you might not act with everything every time it's your go, and leaders can activate elements that are below them in the chain of command, so are more action efficient (you can activate a squad on a roll of 2, or you can activate a squad using a senior leader on a roll of 4, and then the leader can do or activate two more things!). Before you start deploying (assets deploy as an activation when they are off table, and they stay off table until you deploy them) there is a patrol phase to decide deployment points which makes the game overall very tactical and reactive. The game ends when you achieve a particular objective, or when one side's force morale goes to 0. It starts between 8-11 and is reduced by Bad Things happening (leaders injured, tanks exploded, squads wiped out etc) so you don't really know how resilient your dudes are until they get to face combat. Once they have faced combat, there is a campaign system for in between games: getting casualties back, deciding the men's opinion of their commander and gaining bonuses or maluses for the next map in the campaign and so on, AND there are a ton of Pint Sized Campaigns that cost the price of a beer and offer many many sessions of play, with historical background and organisations. And if you are not into WW2 or historics in general, ALL of these systems can be transplanted to other games, as long as there is a chain of command, which there usually is to some extent, generals, heroes, wizards, Primaris Sergeants et cetera can all be classified as either junior (~squad level) leaders or senior (~platoon level) leaders.
Having a good initiative system can completely change a game. The game I'm working on, Combat Tails - a game of Anthropomorphic soldiers, has each unit getting a number of 'charges' these are just dice that you can spend on actions. The number of charges you have determines when in the initiative order you act. Characters (players or enemies as it is a single player and co-op game) activate based on the number of charges, starting at 6, and going down to 1. The number of charges you get is based on your equipment loadout - the more you carry, the slower you are. Each round you add the number of charges (again, dice) to your charge meter to determine initiative. Leaders can give dice to other characters to speed them up, And there is an 'Escalation pool' mechanic that you can take dice from, but when it's empty, it changes the effect of the game - enemies might do more damage, or move faster and so on. The game will also be having a campaign - The players are controlling a member of the Combat Tails team. Combat Tails is the codename for the daring and highly trained, Anthropomorphic Special Mission Force - it's purpose; to protect mammal freedom from the Ruthless Reptilian Forces of SCALE! As you progress, you combat SCALE, defeating their plans.
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Great video.... I Will also add that ramdom enviromental effects is also a great rule mechanic, like in old 40k creature features as well, where asíde the 2 players there is also creature wandering around, or where scenery also have any kind of mechanic..
When it comes to game length, I prefer something more open ended or something for the players to decide. One of problems I have with a set game length is players who run down the clock or the mad dash at the end of the game to secure locations. It detracts from the "realism" of the game for me that everyone would just hide until the last minute before charging out to fight. Unless it's a sports game, that's not how things work. 🤷♂️
I can see fixed turn lengths are useful for tournament’ style games where scoring / limited time periods are favourable. But for more Narrative style games I agree with your point that this ‘breaks’ the story being told unless there is a narrative reason for the limit eg. The spaceship you are on will explode in x turns.
@haydenburnham4103 That's a valid point. In the one Reign in Hell game I played, I was able to win because I was able to swoop in and secure the objective (king of the hill) because I waited until the last turn to pile on it.
Fatigue mechanic in Saga is brilliant. Also order dice mechanic are good in saga. There's no separate morale mechanics but more units you lose less order dice you have and less activations you can do. It's also well thought out mechanic as you need to lose certain amount of models to lose the order dice and not whole unit. Player could have remnants of several units on the table and only one order dice left which essentially means theres nothing they can do and the game is over. This emulates the overall morale of the army really well.
The game also encourages the min-maxing of activation dice by using smaller units, but at the risk of easily losing those dice when units fall below a minimum. Your special abilities are easier to get off as well since you have more dice to prime them, but have less punch because you are using them on smaller units. It's a good risk/reward system
There are a lot of nice Initiative systems out there today. For Napo games the order of a division can determine its initiative. (Attack -> Engage -> Hold) or like in "Lasalle" with interuption. The player with more Shootingstar units starts and some actions - shooting, etc. - can be Interrupted by the non-phasing player. TooFatLardies games although have some unique initiative systems. 🥰
I love the initiative system the great goblin argle bargle. Same with Deth Wizards and Reign in Hell. Set game length i find is a good way to force players to engage with the scenario or objectives. Campaign play is also something I find critical in any game I play. I enjoy the growth of the crew/squad/team etc.
Warmachine has a Boost mechanic in which you can roll and keep an additional D6 on an attack or damage roll, so if you need a roll of 9 to hit you may spend a Focus to boost the roll, as 3D6 have a much better chance of rolling a 9+ than 2D6 will. Similarly, boosting damage rolls can make that hit really count. It's a game mechanic that Warmachine players have loved for years.
I like Stargrave activation mechanics - first the crew captain and up to three models in the 3" range and LOS activates, then the first mate and up to three models in 3" and LOS and then the rest of the crew - this greatly simulates how the initiative goes from the higher rank to lower rank models.
The stealth mechanic in 02 Hundred Hours is a work of genius, and the activation system is great too. Couldn't agree more about the initative and campaign rules being critical to a great wargame. Thanks for the content.
I like bag-drawing for initiative too, especially since you can also put in tokens for the game to activate, be it NPCs, hazards or something else. Zone Wars does this quite well I think. Campaign rules is almost the most important bit for me, campaign rules that focus more on helping telling the story than making sure everything is balanced like a chess-game. Go wild! Go crazy! Did Steve the zero cost commoner just find Excalibur and now you have a free king? I'm in. Also the leader has taken one too many blows to the head and is now being prodded along? Sure! I think the third one is when all the rolls are done at once. Like if you attack someone both sides rolls at the same time and that tells you what you need to know. I do want all the rules to start playing be in one book, I do not mind if they then sell books with new campaigns, classes and gear. In fact I rather like that, as long as it doesn't get confusing and you don't know what books you need, or that you bought a cool model but now have to buy a book to use it.
Heartily agree on No.1. It’s one of the things that I love about Mobile Frame Zero, where the player with the highest score [initially the player who has brought the least resources (least units &/or least resources)] always has initiative, and can choose to activate units until they have all activated (but attacking a unit which hasn’t activated yet causes that unit to activate), or pass to another player. It’s also what makes me want to play CrossFire. In CF, one player starts the game with initiative, and may activate as many of their units as they want, until they either fail in one of their actions or are stopped by reaction fire from their opponent, and then initiative goes to the other player. I also like No.2, and again it’s something I like about Mobile Frame Zero. In MF0, a die is set on the table to count down the number of rounds until the end of the game. The die automatically counts down by one at the end of each round, but then each player may choose to push the die down by one as well, if they wish. So if you currently have the highest score, then it’s to your advantage to end the game quickly, before your opponents have the chance to pull ahead.
This is really specific but the exploding 6 rule in Dystopian Wars. It means that no mater how miss matched the two ships fighting each other may be the little ship always has a chance. Granted you may need to roll a lot of six's but it's possible. You are never out of the game and it can make for some phenomenal cinematic moments.
The Too Fat Lardies always have interesting activation systems. Chain of Command's command dice and patrol phase really sold me on that game, and their card-based activation from Sharp Practice/Infamy Infamy make for some really interesting games. I also use 'At the Sharp End' for campaigns in pretty much every rule system i own. I also like crossfire's whole initiative and reactions system, giving the whole game a fast-paced and chaotic feel (although the rules for vehicles are really bad).
The best mechanic for army scale games: instead of moving each model individually, move the unit leader and then place the rest in coherency/certain radius.
Man i just finished typing about campaing play 😅 i also like when between games you and other players have explicit set of actions, that can either modify your next game or maybe change outcome of whole campaign for you, even cooler if your warband/army have some unique actions
Something to compliment the "Limited turns" is "limited activations" If done well like in Saga or Warcrow or Underworlds, it really adds another layer to the strategy. Another game that does the limited activations and combines it with the bag activations is Anyaral, which adds a few twists. So regardless of how many minis you have, you get 6 activation stones. However some leader type minis can activate troopers or beasts when they activate, allowing you to do more. In addition, there is no "attack" action. Instead there are 2 combat activation stones mixed in the bag. When those are drawn, a round of combat is fought between everyone who is engaged. Which leads to some interesting moments.
Yeah, one of the things I love about Advanced Squad Leader is the turn limit. Each side has goals to complete by then, and if you miss your goals, the other side is winner by default. Usually. LOL Campaign games in ASL are fun, as well for the reasons you've stated, but you also get reinforcements, so setting up for each new game is a challenge all on its own. I know ASL isn't a miniatures game (there is a Deluxe version that is, but it never got a lot of support), but it shares a lot of the same mechanics as miniature wargames. Same genre, I suppose.
I am a big fan of random model activation. I think bolt action does it better than games like AT-43, since AT-43 forced you to activate a unit that came up in the random card draw instead of picking the most beneficial unit at that moment. In fact, this is such an old game mechanism from the hoary days of garage game design with buddies, that I think most wargames games could benefit from it and is an easily implemented mechanism. Not all, but many could. It's a shame that such is not used more frequently.
The sum of the rules is the experience it provides, although being clearly written really is a boon BA is still the same, amazing mechanic, beyond alternate activations as it leaves uncertainty when moving often til quite deep in the turn. If you get a run of the dice, you know it is going to swing back later.
I agree with your list, especially the one book for everything. I've become less interested in Warhammer over the years and started trying onepagerules games and Trench Crusade.
@@benbonney true enough but those paints are aimed at the real painters , they're a luxury item . In terms of the things you need though they're generally more expensive .
I agree about innovative initiative rules, I love Bolt Action's system. However I disagree about a set number of rounds, it can cause stupid plays because you know the game will end after your last couple of actions and you can do silly things without any fear of retaliation or consequences. That's not how it works in real life. I like the randomness of old 40k editions (that still exists in current 30k rules).
I played a game of Bolt Action at Fall-In earlier this month and the GM threw a regular white d6 into the bag. When that die was drawn the turn was over and we reset. I liked that extra bit of randomness. And it was to solve the exact problem you were describing.
Not too worried about the campaign aspect, I'm happy playing one off games. Activation is key and TBH I'm a sucker for any of the following This Quars War: Clash of rhyfles alternate activation but you don't know whether you are getting 3,4, or 5 actions each round. This mixed in with Overwatch, Opportunity Fire, Reactions and pluck points means both players can be engaged for each and every action. 7TV IGOUGO with plot points that you expend to take action and plot points are regained each turn based on game state. Plot points can be carried over from turn to turn, you can have small turns or bigger turns but there are consequences. Game length is determined by a separate card deck mechanic, which stops the sit and wait. Song of Blade - IGOUGO but where you can take 1,2 or 3 actions per unit but have to pass a skill checks for each proposed action with 2 failures ending your turn, requires some thought, planning and risk management. Dead Mans Hand using a card deck and allocating cards to models and then activating in sequence Void Admiral with 4 classes of ship and activating IGOUGO a ship class at a time going from smallest to largest reflecting the manouvreaibilty of the ships in the action.
I guess it’s more of a “feature” than a mechanic, but... what I really look for is a game that’s not over before it starts. What I mean is... that you can’t look at your opponent’s list and realize you can’t counter it and/or a game that features the “alpha strike”. While, in general, I guess I prefer some version of alternating activations over a straight IGOUGO system, playing Old World recently has made it clear that IGOUGO can work fine, as long as combat/shooting isn’t overpowering.
Nice video, as always, but i wouldn't call "rules mechanics" either the number of rounds of a game, or the campaign setting. In my understanding, mechanics are about how a game is played in one round essentially, if we strip off any narrative-related rule. A scenario and campaign can set the scene, the duration of a game, any special abilities or rules, etc. You can play even chess for a specific number of rounds, or embed it in a campaign, but the rules mechanics of chess are about how each type of piece is moving, the two colours, the alternating turns of activation, etc.
With Campaign play and WYSIWYG models, how do you handle units that are upgraded between games? Like in Zona Alfa where a unit might get a different weapon or even an add-on (like a scope) Do you just have the additions as new information in the stat card, rebuild (and repaint) the mini or do you build a whole new mini? Am I overthinking this?
I look for rulesets without save rolls. Hits cause injuries, I detest save rolls, deal with the impact. However, This Quars War: Clash of rhyfles has a rather brutal save type mechanic whereby your out of action unit can be tended by a member of your side (on battlefield wound dressing costing an action) but the outcomes of which is - 1/3rd ok, 1/3rd dead, 1/3rd wounded and can fight another day but takes no further part in this conflict other than trying to get off the board. Do you tend your wounded compatriot or carry on taking the fight to the opponent?
How come no mention of Gorka Mora. A friend of mine had an orc or Boss that damaged his pinky and he rolled on the grout, Dr. chart and decided he needed brain surgery to replace his brain with a brain of a battle swig😅
I’m trying to use all my 20 to 30 pounds of old metal minis for an agnostic project/game. Old ral partha and 1987 to 1990 rogue trader lumps. Some have tons of personality but won’t convey to modern games
For me I need both theme and rules. If it is rich in theme but the rules are lackluster or bad, I won't want to play it. But if it is mechanically good, or even great, and it doesn't have a good theme or lore then I have no reason to engage with the game.
I was never interested in first person shooters until Warhammer 40,000: Fire Warrior. I was always a 3rd person adventure game guy and I sucked at FPS. I still suck but I wanted the story. I’m not a tournament player and every game my friends played never had a board size or how many turns. We just played. So we tweeted the game to us.
Movement is Key, boring moves is a boring game. And counter play is the other thing I love. If your opponent can just take an army/list I can't do anything against, it's boring and bad game design.
Looking at you Necromunda - the coolest models, terrain, world setting and concept, but the rules are a garbled mess of overlapping and contradicting books, massive rule bloat that is extremely unbalanced and tons of messy stat lines and dice rolls that all desperately need streamlining.
Playing any version of kill team all teams have a roster and sometimes I only let you take 2 or 3 specialists so the basic troop I the important. Ok I’m done put too many posts too early lol. Good night from Canada
I was never interested in first person shooters until Warhammer 40,000: Fire Warrior. I was always a 3rd person adventure game guy and I sucked at FPS. I still suck but I wanted the story. I’m not a tournament player and every game my friends played never had a board size or how many turns. We just played
The rules don't have to be good, they just have to be good _enough._ Or at least, not actively bad. Given a choice between a perhaps mediocre game with cool theme, great models, wide availability, constant support with new releases, and events, loads of opponents to play vs. an obscure but great rules no one plays and you have to kitbash the models yourself.... most people will choose the former. As GW sales figures attest. Of course, "good enough" is subjective. But I'm willing to bet most GW players don't think the rules are the best possible (especially given how much they complain about them...) -- but they still play the game. and many actively refuse to even try the alternatives. Also, how many games you are going to play is a factor. If I want to play, say, a pirate game every once in a while, it doesn't have to be the greatest. It just needs to have pirates in it and be okay. If I was planning to play it every week, that would be a different story. Personally I play so many different games I just don't have the time to play a campaign in any of them and thus campaign rules are low priority for me.
I actually DESPISE a set number of turns. 1. It's the laziest form of game writing.tgink of a reason that a game ends rather than a number. 2. It promotes bad tactics. Yes you "won" with 1 guy on the objective but I still have 3 untouched tanks that killed your entire army. How does that feel narratively? 3. It forces building lists for that turn objective instead of fluff, or fun or experimental. 4. Chess, checkers, mancala, etc. all the best classic games have Win Conditions, not turn limits!
I like Warcry's initiative mechanic. Making the initiative roll also the source of special abilities makes for a fun trade-off where winning the initiative may result in your opponent having access to more special abilities, or more powerful abilities, for the coming round. In addition the wild dice mechanic gives some useful tools for players to tweak their roll more to their liking.
Warcry is so fun I'm amazed GW made it
Deadzone uses a similar method. Making Deadzone a great sci fi analogue from a design standpoint.
I really enjoy rules which keep units alive to act. Hobgoblin only makes "damage" count at the end of a round, so everyone gets to act, same as Alphastrike. Turnip has (usually) simultaneous firefights. Warmaster requires at least three damage per phase, so you need to go hard or go home. I spend time creating that army, I want to use it!
Not a wargame but in the board game Spartacus i like that a gladiator has x dice for attack y for defense z for speed and those also represent life points. Each damage you choose which dice to discard so they become weaker/slower as they get injured.
1) *Infinity's* ARO system that let's you feel like it's always your turn!
2) *Malifaux's* cheating card system that facilitates tough choices and great mind games!
3) *Moonstone's* card-based battle system that makes you actually feel like you're in an actual sword duel!
Fights of Fantasy uses an initiative/activation system similar to that used by Bolt-Action except that players put numbered tiles into a bag. They draw a tile for each unit or character during what’s called the marshaling phase at the beginning of a turn. The tile is then placed next to the respective unit or character and that is the order from lowest to highest that each acts in each phase for the duration of the current turn. The number of tiles equals twice the units on the board because certain leader and character traits and magic spells can cause/permit players to draw multiple tiles (they choose which one to keep) for a unit or character. Some spells allow a player to draw new tiles for a unit to make them act earlier or later in a turn (to help their own troops or hurt their opponent’s). At the end of the turn all the tiles are gathered up and placed back in the bag and the process repeats with the next turn. This randomization makes it challenging because you may need a unit to act at a certain time but the tile you draw isn’t what you needed. This sort of simulates battlefield confusion, fog-of-war, or unit hesitation. It means that players are constantly scanning the board to see which unit or character will be going next which helps keep people engaged in the game. It’s also a very simple, easy-to-learn process.
Mr. Welch, while he is mostly known for RPG's, has a saying as follows. "Good art can sell a bad book or game. But bad art or no art can simply kill a great game!"
A good example of this is look at GW's books and packaging for their miniatures. Their games currently being made and sold have beautiful cover art on the books and the packaging for the miniatures beautifully shows off the miniatures and at least for 40k is color coded for each faction. But let's face it, the rules set for 40k are OK to good... at best.
A good example of bad art/packaging is Kings of War. Their packaging for miniatures does nothing to show off the miniatures in the box and most of the time the photograph on the front of the box of the miniatures has them painted in a color scheme which blends in with the background & foreground that is using the same color scheme more often than not.
More often than not, new players are sold on some if it looks cool, sounds cool or has a cool story/background/lore.
I recall my favorite mechanic or rule of original Warhammer Quest was what would occur between battles or dungeon runs. You could travel to a village, town, or city. Traveling to villages take less weeks than to city, but gives you less options for what you can do in the larger settlements. Things could randomly happen every week as you travel, like encountering travelers on the road or being waylaid by bandits who steal your gold. When in a settlement, you would spend gold every night to room and board and random things could happen in town too. Each passing week heals your model’s hp for the next battle, but exposes you to random event risks like muggings or being pickpocketed or getting tricked by swindlers or your models simply getting bored and going gambling and drinking risking losing gold or hp in a bar brawl (depending on how you roll on event tables). You could also visit establishments like alehouses, the governor’s mansion to curry favor, or even an underground chaos cult temple to pray to dark gods if you played a chaos warrior. There were no experience points at all in the game… to level up, you had to use gold - and only gold - to hire a specific trainer to train each of your models to the next level (which also takes time, thus requiring more gold spent for room and board), all while balancing buying supplies, gear, and potions, thus making saving and earning Gold in battles and dungeon runs the driving force in the game. Ingenious system. I don’t know any other game past or present that had something so immersive
5 Parsecs from Home (and I assume 5 Leagues) has a lot of activities between battles.
Look in to Shadows Over Brimstone! It's WQ95 with cowboys meets cthulhu. It has towns between dungeons and fan content that adds to it. Dungeon Dive has a really good video series all about it.
Yeah original warhammer quest was quite literally a perfect game.
Silver Bayonet has two great mechanics:
1. The winner of the initiative roll goes first but only with ½ their force. Then it’s the monster phase followed by the loser of the roll activating all their miniatures. Finally the winner activates the remainder of their troops. This approach allows the winner some ability to deal with the monsters/opponent but they then have to weather the storm.
2. Shooting and Melee attacks use 2d10s, a power and a skill dice with a target defence stat number to beat. The weapon either wounds on the power dice roll (eg Blunderbus) or the skill dice (eg fencing sword). Players also start the game with 1 re-roll for each dice which helps turn a 10 & 1 into something deadly.
The Silver Bayonet game has taken over as our go to game this year. So much so that one of the group has reskinned it for space and the rules can be found at the Laser Bayonet FB Group.
Oh and it’s all in one book (apart from the expansions - we’re off to the pyramids next year, what could possibly go wrong?)
The dice system has other effects down the line. Since your rerolls per dice type are limited, you don't want to overload your team with all one damage dice type. You can get additional rerolls by capturing objectives. A simple mechanic like that informing your entire team building strategy and game play priorities is good design.
I thought silver bayonet had an official sci-fi ruleset. Or am I thinking of Star grave?
Infinity ARO system keeps the game engaging for both sides throughout the game
My favorite game mechanic is this guy named Vito over on Main St. He can fix a game while you’re still playing. Generally involves “special dice”.
bolt action 3 has the same old initiative system 😊 it is also an opr optional rule. by the way😊
Also used in Warlords of Erehwon and Gates of Antares.
I loved that you went above and beyond for this video and directed a whole WW2 battle scene :D
I am done with "i go, you go"
i dont want to say never but i will never play a game with that as a rule base again.
alternating Unit activation has to be part of it.
I love the Turn 0 mission building and the pip initiative/order system mechanics in Star Wars: Legion. So fun and flexible.
The most thematic activation system I have come across is in Gaslands. The turn is split into phases represented by gears. What gear your individual car is in determines when it goes in the turn and what templates you can use for movement. Also one book and a big bag of second hand hot wheels, that's some superb cheap gaming right there.
I like the initiative mechanics in Rogue Stars, a small scifi skirmish game. You pick a model, then make an "activation roll" for that model. If you succeed, you activate that model and can then make another activation roll for the next one and so on, either until you're done with all your models or choose to let the opponent go. But, if you ever fail an activation roll, the opponent can steal the initiative and make their own activation roll.
I have a copy of Rogue Stars but haven't had the chance to play it. But the initiative system is one of the reasons I've been wanting to play it.
Sounds like you just described One Page Rules to me, and that continues to make me overjoyed that we've found this game.
Chain of Command by Too Fat Lardies has all or elements of all these three. The activation mechanic is deeper than Bolt Action, you have a fixed number of activation dice to use for all your stuff so you might not act with everything every time it's your go, and leaders can activate elements that are below them in the chain of command, so are more action efficient (you can activate a squad on a roll of 2, or you can activate a squad using a senior leader on a roll of 4, and then the leader can do or activate two more things!). Before you start deploying (assets deploy as an activation when they are off table, and they stay off table until you deploy them) there is a patrol phase to decide deployment points which makes the game overall very tactical and reactive. The game ends when you achieve a particular objective, or when one side's force morale goes to 0. It starts between 8-11 and is reduced by Bad Things happening (leaders injured, tanks exploded, squads wiped out etc) so you don't really know how resilient your dudes are until they get to face combat. Once they have faced combat, there is a campaign system for in between games: getting casualties back, deciding the men's opinion of their commander and gaining bonuses or maluses for the next map in the campaign and so on, AND there are a ton of Pint Sized Campaigns that cost the price of a beer and offer many many sessions of play, with historical background and organisations.
And if you are not into WW2 or historics in general, ALL of these systems can be transplanted to other games, as long as there is a chain of command, which there usually is to some extent, generals, heroes, wizards, Primaris Sergeants et cetera can all be classified as either junior (~squad level) leaders or senior (~platoon level) leaders.
Agree totally, the patrol phase in CoC is a brilliant mechanic.
Having a good initiative system can completely change a game. The game I'm working on, Combat Tails - a game of Anthropomorphic soldiers, has each unit getting a number of 'charges' these are just dice that you can spend on actions. The number of charges you have determines when in the initiative order you act. Characters (players or enemies as it is a single player and co-op game) activate based on the number of charges, starting at 6, and going down to 1.
The number of charges you get is based on your equipment loadout - the more you carry, the slower you are. Each round you add the number of charges (again, dice) to your charge meter to determine initiative. Leaders can give dice to other characters to speed them up, And there is an 'Escalation pool' mechanic that you can take dice from, but when it's empty, it changes the effect of the game - enemies might do more damage, or move faster and so on.
The game will also be having a campaign - The players are controlling a member of the Combat Tails team.
Combat Tails is the codename for the daring and highly trained, Anthropomorphic Special Mission Force - it's purpose; to protect mammal freedom from the Ruthless Reptilian Forces of SCALE!
As you progress, you combat SCALE, defeating their plans.
Great video.... I Will also add that ramdom enviromental effects is also a great rule mechanic, like in old 40k creature features as well, where asíde the 2 players there is also creature wandering around, or where scenery also have any kind of mechanic..
I like the falling off mechanic from Nuclear Renaissance, lifted straight from Gorkamorka.
When it comes to game length, I prefer something more open ended or something for the players to decide. One of problems I have with a set game length is players who run down the clock or the mad dash at the end of the game to secure locations. It detracts from the "realism" of the game for me that everyone would just hide until the last minute before charging out to fight. Unless it's a sports game, that's not how things work. 🤷♂️
I can see fixed turn lengths are useful for tournament’ style games where scoring / limited time periods are favourable. But for more Narrative style games I agree with your point that this ‘breaks’ the story being told unless there is a narrative reason for the limit eg. The spaceship you are on will explode in x turns.
@haydenburnham4103 That's a valid point. In the one Reign in Hell game I played, I was able to win because I was able to swoop in and secure the objective (king of the hill) because I waited until the last turn to pile on it.
Fatigue mechanic in Saga is brilliant. Also order dice mechanic are good in saga. There's no separate morale mechanics but more units you lose less order dice you have and less activations you can do. It's also well thought out mechanic as you need to lose certain amount of models to lose the order dice and not whole unit. Player could have remnants of several units on the table and only one order dice left which essentially means theres nothing they can do and the game is over. This emulates the overall morale of the army really well.
Fatigue mechanic in Saga is so good that Trench Crusade uses a modified version of it as well. :)
The game also encourages the min-maxing of activation dice by using smaller units, but at the risk of easily losing those dice when units fall below a minimum. Your special abilities are easier to get off as well since you have more dice to prime them, but have less punch because you are using them on smaller units. It's a good risk/reward system
There are a lot of nice Initiative systems out there today. For Napo games the order of a division can determine its initiative. (Attack -> Engage -> Hold) or like in "Lasalle" with interuption. The player with more Shootingstar units starts and some actions - shooting, etc. - can be Interrupted by the non-phasing player.
TooFatLardies games although have some unique initiative systems. 🥰
I love the initiative system the great goblin argle bargle. Same with Deth Wizards and Reign in Hell.
Set game length i find is a good way to force players to engage with the scenario or objectives.
Campaign play is also something I find critical in any game I play. I enjoy the growth of the crew/squad/team etc.
You picked some seriously good mechanics to highlight!
Warmachine has a Boost mechanic in which you can roll and keep an additional D6 on an attack or damage roll, so if you need a roll of 9 to hit you may spend a Focus to boost the roll, as 3D6 have a much better chance of rolling a 9+ than 2D6 will. Similarly, boosting damage rolls can make that hit really count. It's a game mechanic that Warmachine players have loved for years.
I like Stargrave activation mechanics - first the crew captain and up to three models in the 3" range and LOS activates, then the first mate and up to three models in 3" and LOS and then the rest of the crew - this greatly simulates how the initiative goes from the higher rank to lower rank models.
The stealth mechanic in 02 Hundred Hours is a work of genius, and the activation system is great too. Couldn't agree more about the initative and campaign rules being critical to a great wargame. Thanks for the content.
I like bag-drawing for initiative too, especially since you can also put in tokens for the game to activate, be it NPCs, hazards or something else. Zone Wars does this quite well I think.
Campaign rules is almost the most important bit for me, campaign rules that focus more on helping telling the story than making sure everything is balanced like a chess-game. Go wild! Go crazy! Did Steve the zero cost commoner just find Excalibur and now you have a free king? I'm in. Also the leader has taken one too many blows to the head and is now being prodded along? Sure!
I think the third one is when all the rolls are done at once. Like if you attack someone both sides rolls at the same time and that tells you what you need to know.
I do want all the rules to start playing be in one book, I do not mind if they then sell books with new campaigns, classes and gear. In fact I rather like that, as long as it doesn't get confusing and you don't know what books you need, or that you bought a cool model but now have to buy a book to use it.
Heartily agree on No.1. It’s one of the things that I love about Mobile Frame Zero, where the player with the highest score [initially the player who has brought the least resources (least units &/or least resources)] always has initiative, and can choose to activate units until they have all activated (but attacking a unit which hasn’t activated yet causes that unit to activate), or pass to another player. It’s also what makes me want to play CrossFire. In CF, one player starts the game with initiative, and may activate as many of their units as they want, until they either fail in one of their actions or are stopped by reaction fire from their opponent, and then initiative goes to the other player.
I also like No.2, and again it’s something I like about Mobile Frame Zero. In MF0, a die is set on the table to count down the number of rounds until the end of the game. The die automatically counts down by one at the end of each round, but then each player may choose to push the die down by one as well, if they wish. So if you currently have the highest score, then it’s to your advantage to end the game quickly, before your opponents have the chance to pull ahead.
man, 5th edition 40k had so much fun randomness to it, it was so narrative. i really miss that feeling!
This is really specific but the exploding 6 rule in Dystopian Wars. It means that no mater how miss matched the two ships fighting each other may be the little ship always has a chance. Granted you may need to roll a lot of six's but it's possible. You are never out of the game and it can make for some phenomenal cinematic moments.
The Too Fat Lardies always have interesting activation systems. Chain of Command's command dice and patrol phase really sold me on that game, and their card-based activation from Sharp Practice/Infamy Infamy make for some really interesting games. I also use 'At the Sharp End' for campaigns in pretty much every rule system i own.
I also like crossfire's whole initiative and reactions system, giving the whole game a fast-paced and chaotic feel (although the rules for vehicles are really bad).
The best mechanic for army scale games: instead of moving each model individually, move the unit leader and then place the rest in coherency/certain radius.
One rule I love in Wargames is the roll to attack with a chance you explode/troops devour eachother, like with Turnip28
Man i just finished typing about campaing play 😅 i also like when between games you and other players have explicit set of actions, that can either modify your next game or maybe change outcome of whole campaign for you, even cooler if your warband/army have some unique actions
Something to compliment the "Limited turns" is "limited activations" If done well like in Saga or Warcrow or Underworlds, it really adds another layer to the strategy.
Another game that does the limited activations and combines it with the bag activations is Anyaral, which adds a few twists. So regardless of how many minis you have, you get 6 activation stones. However some leader type minis can activate troopers or beasts when they activate, allowing you to do more. In addition, there is no "attack" action. Instead there are 2 combat activation stones mixed in the bag. When those are drawn, a round of combat is fought between everyone who is engaged. Which leads to some interesting moments.
Liked seeing Bolt Action get some love. It is definitely a unique initiative.
Yeah, one of the things I love about Advanced Squad Leader is the turn limit. Each side has goals to complete by then, and if you miss your goals, the other side is winner by default. Usually. LOL
Campaign games in ASL are fun, as well for the reasons you've stated, but you also get reinforcements, so setting up for each new game is a challenge all on its own.
I know ASL isn't a miniatures game (there is a Deluxe version that is, but it never got a lot of support), but it shares a lot of the same mechanics as miniature wargames. Same genre, I suppose.
The bolt action mechanic is amazing. It affects all aspects of the game including list building.
I am a big fan of random model activation. I think bolt action does it better than games like AT-43, since AT-43 forced you to activate a unit that came up in the random card draw instead of picking the most beneficial unit at that moment.
In fact, this is such an old game mechanism from the hoary days of garage game design with buddies, that I think most wargames games could benefit from it and is an easily implemented mechanism. Not all, but many could. It's a shame that such is not used more frequently.
The sum of the rules is the experience it provides, although being clearly written really is a boon
BA is still the same, amazing mechanic, beyond alternate activations as it leaves uncertainty when moving often til quite deep in the turn. If you get a run of the dice, you know it is going to swing back later.
I go to a game convention every year, and although the game is Warhammer 40k, the host of this convention has a good narrative setting...
I agree with your list, especially the one book for everything. I've become less interested in Warhammer over the years and started trying onepagerules games and Trench Crusade.
I feel that last one was a snipe at GW 😂
I can almost guarantee it was . To be honest though GW charges more for everything than anyone else
@garypeyman932 I was looking at the price of Duncan Rhodes paints this morning and couldn't believe how expensive they are for a GW alternative.
@@benbonney true enough but those paints are aimed at the real painters , they're a luxury item . In terms of the things you need though they're generally more expensive .
I agree about innovative initiative rules, I love Bolt Action's system.
However I disagree about a set number of rounds, it can cause stupid plays because you know the game will end after your last couple of actions and you can do silly things without any fear of retaliation or consequences. That's not how it works in real life. I like the randomness of old 40k editions (that still exists in current 30k rules).
I played a game of Bolt Action at Fall-In earlier this month and the GM threw a regular white d6 into the bag. When that die was drawn the turn was over and we reset. I liked that extra bit of randomness. And it was to solve the exact problem you were describing.
Not too worried about the campaign aspect, I'm happy playing one off games.
Activation is key and TBH I'm a sucker for any of the following
This Quars War: Clash of rhyfles alternate activation but you don't know whether you are getting 3,4, or 5 actions each round. This mixed in with Overwatch, Opportunity Fire, Reactions and pluck points means both players can be engaged for each and every action.
7TV IGOUGO with plot points that you expend to take action and plot points are regained each turn based on game state. Plot points can be carried over from turn to turn, you can have small turns or bigger turns but there are consequences. Game length is determined by a separate card deck mechanic, which stops the sit and wait.
Song of Blade - IGOUGO but where you can take 1,2 or 3 actions per unit but have to pass a skill checks for each proposed action with 2 failures ending your turn, requires some thought, planning and risk management.
Dead Mans Hand using a card deck and allocating cards to models and then activating in sequence
Void Admiral with 4 classes of ship and activating IGOUGO a ship class at a time going from smallest to largest reflecting the manouvreaibilty of the ships in the action.
Nuts, but loveable
Very insightful. Like you could be a designer! Or publisher! ❤
I love exploding dice.
I guess it’s more of a “feature” than a mechanic, but... what I really look for is a game that’s not over before it starts. What I mean is... that you can’t look at your opponent’s list and realize you can’t counter it and/or a game that features the “alpha strike”. While, in general, I guess I prefer some version of alternating activations over a straight IGOUGO system, playing Old World recently has made it clear that IGOUGO can work fine, as long as combat/shooting isn’t overpowering.
Great video. Thanks 😊
Another mechanic that ALL wargames should have ara Height stats combined with 2D LOS, exactly like Malifaux. OPR has something similar but optional.
Hit success margin as a measure of potential damage eliminates another unnecessary die roll... no brainer.
Good topic!
Nice video, as always, but i wouldn't call "rules mechanics" either the number of rounds of a game, or the campaign setting. In my understanding, mechanics are about how a game is played in one round essentially, if we strip off any narrative-related rule. A scenario and campaign can set the scene, the duration of a game, any special abilities or rules, etc. You can play even chess for a specific number of rounds, or embed it in a campaign, but the rules mechanics of chess are about how each type of piece is moving, the two colours, the alternating turns of activation, etc.
With Campaign play and WYSIWYG models, how do you handle units that are upgraded between games? Like in Zona Alfa where a unit might get a different weapon or even an add-on (like a scope) Do you just have the additions as new information in the stat card, rebuild (and repaint) the mini or do you build a whole new mini? Am I overthinking this?
I think that is down to your preference. Any way is right if it’s how you want to reflect the additions.
I agree with all of these.
I look for rulesets without save rolls. Hits cause injuries, I detest save rolls, deal with the impact. However, This Quars War: Clash of rhyfles has a rather brutal save type mechanic whereby your out of action unit can be tended by a member of your side (on battlefield wound dressing costing an action) but the outcomes of which is - 1/3rd ok, 1/3rd dead, 1/3rd wounded and can fight another day but takes no further part in this conflict other than trying to get off the board. Do you tend your wounded compatriot or carry on taking the fight to the opponent?
totally agree
Loved the vid ❤️👍🔥🤘
How come no mention of Gorka Mora. A friend of mine had an orc or Boss that damaged his pinky and he rolled on the grout, Dr. chart and decided he needed brain surgery to replace his brain with a brain of a battle swig😅
LEZ GO !
cool
Sounds like you should be a necromunda player
I’m trying to use all my 20 to 30 pounds of old metal minis for an agnostic project/game.
Old ral partha and 1987 to 1990 rogue trader lumps. Some have tons of personality but won’t convey to modern games
Shake dat bag lol
For me I need both theme and rules. If it is rich in theme but the rules are lackluster or bad, I won't want to play it. But if it is mechanically good, or even great, and it doesn't have a good theme or lore then I have no reason to engage with the game.
I was never interested in first person shooters until Warhammer 40,000: Fire Warrior. I was always a 3rd person adventure game guy and I sucked at FPS. I still suck but I wanted the story. I’m not a tournament player and every game my friends played never had a board size or how many turns. We just played. So we tweeted the game to us.
Where’s that link?
Which link?
You might say . . . System Matters?
Movement is Key, boring moves is a boring game. And counter play is the other thing I love. If your opponent can just take an army/list I can't do anything against, it's boring and bad game design.
Looking at you Necromunda - the coolest models, terrain, world setting and concept, but the rules are a garbled mess of overlapping and contradicting books, massive rule bloat that is extremely unbalanced and tons of messy stat lines and dice rolls that all desperately need streamlining.
Playing any version of kill team all teams have a roster and sometimes I only let you take 2 or 3 specialists so the basic troop I the important. Ok I’m done put too many posts too early lol. Good night from Canada
I was never interested in first person shooters until Warhammer 40,000: Fire Warrior. I was always a 3rd person adventure game guy and I sucked at FPS. I still suck but I wanted the story. I’m not a tournament player and every game my friends played never had a board size or how many turns. We just played
No turns on a large board is fun sometimes it takes 3 turns just to get close to shooting
The rules don't have to be good, they just have to be good _enough._ Or at least, not actively bad.
Given a choice between a perhaps mediocre game with cool theme, great models, wide availability, constant support with new releases, and events, loads of opponents to play vs. an obscure but great rules no one plays and you have to kitbash the models yourself.... most people will choose the former.
As GW sales figures attest.
Of course, "good enough" is subjective. But I'm willing to bet most GW players don't think the rules are the best possible (especially given how much they complain about them...) -- but they still play the game. and many actively refuse to even try the alternatives.
Also, how many games you are going to play is a factor. If I want to play, say, a pirate game every once in a while, it doesn't have to be the greatest. It just needs to have pirates in it and be okay. If I was planning to play it every week, that would be a different story.
Personally I play so many different games I just don't have the time to play a campaign in any of them and thus campaign rules are low priority for me.
I actually DESPISE a set number of turns.
1. It's the laziest form of game writing.tgink of a reason that a game ends rather than a number.
2. It promotes bad tactics. Yes you "won" with 1 guy on the objective but I still have 3 untouched tanks that killed your entire army. How does that feel narratively?
3. It forces building lists for that turn objective instead of fluff, or fun or experimental.
4. Chess, checkers, mancala, etc. all the best classic games have Win Conditions, not turn limits!
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