Hello Davon, you’ll notice more differences with vocals and other instruments than with snare hits. The harmonic distortion and other elements of the preamp play a significant role, especially in how it pairs with the microphone, the type of voice being recorded, and the frequency range. When dealing with broader frequencies, you’re more likely to notice how the transformer behaves or, in the case of a transformerless design, how the circuit responds, along with the tube circuit and the op-amp. This also depends on whether the microphone itself is a tube mic, transformer-based, dynamic, ribbon, or otherwise. There are simply too many factors to consider. Preamps can make a huge difference in orchestral recordings, particularly in quiet passages or when the music has a high dynamic range and sharp transients. From classical to jazz to pop, preamps play a crucial role in shaping the sound. In fact, I believe preamps are way more important than EQs and compressors. Best regards!
Thank you for your insight. Actually the snare hit demonstrated my point about transient response. I did a separate test with my voice using a U87, I heard distinct differences between the Neve 1073, the PAL (which sounded best) and the Onyx while tracking using headphones. But upon playback with my Focal Trio 11Be's those differences seemed to vanish for the most part. So I didn't include that section because it didn't prove anything obvious. I left some points out which I should have mentioned about headroom and clean gain on the expensive stuff. But I'll do a follow-up on that.
@@devon-graves-studio-D Hi Davon , I completely agree with you when it comes to demonstrating for a younger audience, especially those who are just starting out and working from home studios. Prioritizing what’s really important is key, and in that case, even using the preamp of a sound card is totally fine. However, as we move into the realm of those who have been doing this for 30-40 years and are working on more high-end, professional projects, we might start noticing some differences in gear and final results. The U87 is a transformer-based microphone, and if you compare it to other transformerless mics, such as the TLM 103 (which uses a variant of the U87’s capsule), you’ll notice that it sounds quite different, particularly in how it handles transients and harmonic distortion. The TLM 103 is more transparent with less coloration, bright. When paired with preamps, the difference becomes even more noticeable, especially in how the mic compresses transients and adds harmonic content. That said, at the end of the day, what truly matters is the music and the performance. I just wanted to share a different perspective for you to consider and expand on to your audience. All the best!
I agree that the biggest difference is made by the microphones. But preamps are just as important in my opinion. They show you a path. They alter the dynamics of the signal in a natural way that no compressor can do. And if you don't have a preamplifier with a transformer or tubes, then you depend on a compressor that can give you (or not) the desired dynamics. And you waste time in the mix looking for something you could have from the recording to begin with. My opinion is, in order of importance, microphone-preamp-eq-comp-converter
I agree with everything you said. Absolutely. What I was getting at was the difference in tonality is very subtle. But the transient and dynamic content is in full display in my example. I will dig deeper in some experimentation to show the cumulative differences which should be more revealing. And again, I heard tonal differences and clarity differences when tracking vocals. But those differences seemed to vanish on playback, even through my Focals. I wanted to prove a bigger point which I wasn't convinced I was able to do with the abandoned effort. I was making my best attempt to prove my point, beyond mere opinion. Look for that video in the future :)
Its a transformerless design. But one of the best ones out there in my opinion. Very clean, very low noise. I have a video where I compare how it stacks up with a 1073 with an 1176 and opto compressor (hardware) and how close you can get the Audient using plugins. There is also a direct comparison with acoustic guitar without the compressors. th-cam.com/video/EwLoVdAOgaA/w-d-xo.htmlsi=-IdkOvgKVyj8Bzv8
I just watched the video and I think using the Audient ID44mkii preamp with an hardware 1176 and LA2A compressor would have been more interesting and better comparison since the interface has balanced inserts point and the Audient preamp could have shine better cos it would be cleaner with less noise
Excellent! It's hard these days to find solid, reasonably neutral information taken from intelligent experience. What, may I ask, are your thoughts on the TB12 ? I don't have one, or any other Warm gear (yet), but have given it some thought from time to time. The design and build quality appear good from what I can gather and the pricing fair.
The TB 12 It is right up there with the best of the transformer in-out designs at a very affordable price comparatively. The choice of two different op amps, two different output transformers is very unique. However the differences ar a bit subtle for my ear. For the price you can't go wrong. Having said that, if you had about 300 more to spend, you might get a lot more out of the WA73 because the eq can change your sound much more dramatically than the different transformers on the TB12. I use the eq on my 1073 all the time.
I am torn between how to do this more precisely. I think these takes do accurately represent my experience with all these preamps. However, I had been considering a mic splitter to simultaneously record to different preamps, but then it would be skewed by the splitting transformer.
The point comes across regardless of the difference in performance. The API has a weight in the transient that the onyx lacks. Now I can see why people love that topology for drums.
Hi Devon, I'm about to react to your you reacting to my comments from last week, but there's one problem: in one of those comments, I asked you about what you think of Arjen's production of his Human Equation album and I see now that you replied to it and left a nice comment about that project, but for some reason, my comment got deleted and I don't know why (?!). I could still see a bit of what you said, which's something in the vain of: "I think he did a great job and he said he couldn't hear the difference between 16 bit and 24 bits back then...; etc" and that's all I'd see, unfortunately. I probably said something in that comment that goes against YT's (ridiculous) guidelines, but I can't seem to remember what I said exactly. All I know is that I was talking about his then Pro Tools 24 MIX+ system he used to record his Human Equation album with and that I sold a lot of that system, but burned his Mac OS9 onto a CD (LOL!) and kept his 888/24 so I'd be able to hook it up to my 192 interface; etc. You started out saying something really interesting about that and when I clicked on your comment, I found out my original comments not there anymore. 😢 Can you pls tell me (in short) what you said, or maybe your comment's still in your mail inbox, because it's not in mine? ;) Great video, as always by the way! :D Still watching now. ps. Hope this won't get deleted for some (as I said.... ridiculous) reason
Oh, one last thing. A couple of weeks ago, Arjen sent me the remixed version of Human Equation. It's GREAT!! :D "For your ears only", he said, so I can't share it unfortunately, but you'll hear it one fine day of course. I don't know when he's gonna release it, but since he's done remixing it, I think it will be released somewhere in between february and june. ;)
Hello Davon, you’ll notice more differences with vocals and other instruments than with snare hits. The harmonic distortion and other elements of the preamp play a significant role, especially in how it pairs with the microphone, the type of voice being recorded, and the frequency range.
When dealing with broader frequencies, you’re more likely to notice how the transformer behaves or, in the case of a transformerless design, how the circuit responds, along with the tube circuit and the op-amp. This also depends on whether the microphone itself is a tube mic, transformer-based, dynamic, ribbon, or otherwise. There are simply too many factors to consider.
Preamps can make a huge difference in orchestral recordings, particularly in quiet passages or when the music has a high dynamic range and sharp transients. From classical to jazz to pop, preamps play a crucial role in shaping the sound. In fact, I believe preamps are way more important than EQs and compressors. Best regards!
Thank you for your insight. Actually the snare hit demonstrated my point about transient response. I did a separate test with my voice using a U87, I heard distinct differences between the Neve 1073, the PAL (which sounded best) and the Onyx while tracking using headphones. But upon playback with my Focal Trio 11Be's those differences seemed to vanish for the most part. So I didn't include that section because it didn't prove anything obvious. I left some points out which I should have mentioned about headroom and clean gain on the expensive stuff. But I'll do a follow-up on that.
@@devon-graves-studio-D Hi Davon ,
I completely agree with you when it comes to demonstrating for a younger audience, especially those who are just starting out and working from home studios. Prioritizing what’s really important is key, and in that case, even using the preamp of a sound card is totally fine.
However, as we move into the realm of those who have been doing this for 30-40 years and are working on more high-end, professional projects, we might start noticing some differences in gear and final results. The U87 is a transformer-based microphone, and if you compare it to other transformerless mics, such as the TLM 103 (which uses a variant of the U87’s capsule), you’ll notice that it sounds quite different, particularly in how it handles transients and harmonic distortion. The TLM 103 is more transparent with less coloration, bright. When paired with preamps, the difference becomes even more noticeable, especially in how the mic compresses transients and adds harmonic content.
That said, at the end of the day, what truly matters is the music and the performance.
I just wanted to share a different perspective for you to consider and expand on to your audience.
All the best!
I agree that the biggest difference is made by the microphones. But preamps are just as important in my opinion. They show you a path. They alter the dynamics of the signal in a natural way that no compressor can do. And if you don't have a preamplifier with a transformer or tubes, then you depend on a compressor that can give you (or not) the desired dynamics. And you waste time in the mix looking for something you could have from the recording to begin with. My opinion is, in order of importance, microphone-preamp-eq-comp-converter
I agree with everything you said. Absolutely. What I was getting at was the difference in tonality is very subtle. But the transient and dynamic content is in full display in my example. I will dig deeper in some experimentation to show the cumulative differences which should be more revealing. And again, I heard tonal differences and clarity differences when tracking vocals. But those differences seemed to vanish on playback, even through my Focals. I wanted to prove a bigger point which I wasn't convinced I was able to do with the abandoned effort. I was making my best attempt to prove my point, beyond mere opinion. Look for that video in the future :)
And Tape compression for more natural effects.
@@thegroove2000 Mmmmmm... tape compression...
man that sound good, I was dozing off at the console and that woke me up
Thx for the excellent explanation
You are welcome Norbert!
To me the tube pre sounds more like an actual snare in the room .the first 2 pres sound like popcorn
Which category will you place the Audient ID preamp since it's same as they have on their console
Its a transformerless design. But one of the best ones out there in my opinion. Very clean, very low noise. I have a video where I compare how it stacks up with a 1073 with an 1176 and opto compressor (hardware) and how close you can get the Audient using plugins. There is also a direct comparison with acoustic guitar without the compressors. th-cam.com/video/EwLoVdAOgaA/w-d-xo.htmlsi=-IdkOvgKVyj8Bzv8
@devon-graves-studio-D thank you
I just watched the video and I think using the Audient ID44mkii preamp with an hardware 1176 and LA2A compressor would have been more interesting and better comparison since the interface has balanced inserts point and the Audient preamp could have shine better cos it would be cleaner with less noise
@@samueloluyinkaojomu6548 Interesting
Excellent! It's hard these days to find solid, reasonably neutral information taken from intelligent experience. What, may I ask, are your thoughts on the TB12 ? I don't have one, or any other Warm gear (yet), but have given it some thought from time to time. The design and build quality appear good from what I can gather and the pricing fair.
The TB 12 It is right up there with the best of the transformer in-out designs at a very affordable price comparatively. The choice of two different op amps, two different output transformers is very unique. However the differences ar a bit subtle for my ear. For the price you can't go wrong. Having said that, if you had about 300 more to spend, you might get a lot more out of the WA73 because the eq can change your sound much more dramatically than the different transformers on the TB12. I use the eq on my 1073 all the time.
@@devon-graves-studio-D Thanks!
As always different takes sounds totally different, this is not enough to have an objective comparison.
I am torn between how to do this more precisely. I think these takes do accurately represent my experience with all these preamps. However, I had been considering a mic splitter to simultaneously record to different preamps, but then it would be skewed by the splitting transformer.
The point comes across regardless of the difference in performance. The API has a weight in the transient that the onyx lacks. Now I can see why people love that topology for drums.
Hi Devon, I'm about to react to your you reacting to my comments from last week, but there's one problem: in one of those comments, I asked you about what you think of Arjen's production of his Human Equation album and I see now that you replied to it and left a nice comment about that project, but for some reason, my comment got deleted and I don't know why (?!). I could still see a bit of what you said, which's something in the vain of: "I think he did a great job and he said he couldn't hear the difference between 16 bit and 24 bits back then...; etc" and that's all I'd see, unfortunately. I probably said something in that comment that goes against YT's (ridiculous) guidelines, but I can't seem to remember what I said exactly. All I know is that I was talking about his then Pro Tools 24 MIX+ system he used to record his Human Equation album with and that I sold a lot of that system, but burned his Mac OS9 onto a CD (LOL!) and kept his 888/24 so I'd be able to hook it up to my 192 interface; etc. You started out saying something really interesting about that and when I clicked on your comment, I found out my original comments not there anymore. 😢 Can you pls tell me (in short) what you said, or maybe your comment's still in your mail inbox, because it's not in mine? ;)
Great video, as always by the way! :D Still watching now.
ps. Hope this won't get deleted for some (as I said.... ridiculous) reason
Oh, one last thing. A couple of weeks ago, Arjen sent me the remixed version of Human Equation. It's GREAT!! :D "For your ears only", he said, so I can't share it unfortunately, but you'll hear it one fine day of course. I don't know when he's gonna release it, but since he's done remixing it, I think it will be released somewhere in between february and june. ;)
Basically I had said that buying an additional 192 input card for a couple hundred bucks would be better than the 888 for extra inputs.