The Surprising Secrets of Passive Poker Play
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 24 ก.ค. 2024
- In this video, we'll reveal the surprising secrets of passive poker play and how it can be a profitable strategy. This hand example comes from a 2/5 no limit poker game. Many players believe that being aggressive is the only way to win at poker, but passive play can actually be an effective in some specific scenarios.
Bart discusses when playing a more passive style can make sense, as well as tips for incorporating it into your game. Whether you're a beginner or an experienced player, these tips will help you improve your poker game and win big at the table.
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0:00 - Intro
0:26 - Preflop
2:30 - Flop
4:02 - Turn
8:15 - River
11:58 - Hero Decision
12:01 - Reveal
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Check calling is not typically an advised strategy for maximizing value but you can see how the play was logical on each street as the board developed.
How about check calling with AQ off UTG? Getting stacked against AA? Is that a profitable, long term play?
If I run into a guy who's willing to bet my hand for me I'll typically let him do so. At these lower stakes fast play is typically best, but it's amazing how many times I have flopped the absolute nuts against a super aggro and have only had to call each street to get all my opponent's chips.
With the combo draw flop and turn, the passive call down is leaps and bounds the right play.
If he takes the aggressive bet or raise route he takes a huge risk getting raised off the hand. This literally seems the only logical route to play this hand.
Against aggressive players sometimes playing passively is optimal.
I couldnt agree more...
Your 100 percent right and I think Bart (people in general) don't recognize that.
@@user-ut6tj2nv9f but Bart does realize that loo
I always say.. let them dig their hole..
SIDE note.. I know a lot.of players not scared to over play/Bet their hands... but the minute they are raised they fold.
I always felt the key was longterm to establish a strong check and check back range for a couple weeks and than start bluffing often once your image is strong enough
In poker sometimes playing any way is optimal
Villain seems wide enough that 8-7 is also a reasonable value hand for him. But even giving him 8-7, there are so many Ace-X of hearts or Ace-X of diamonds that he can have here, plus all the AK and AQ off missed straight draws.
Agreed. However: A more self-aware player might consider to mostly use his big bets on Turn and River exploitatively for thick value with KQ/87s, while he would use smaller sizings with his bluffs and slightly thinner value, like 2-pair and sets. While using only the smaller bet size would be the most balanced.
The problem is tho, he shouldn’t be bluffing his Axdd combos in this line. I assume we don’t want to bluff our K high FDs either here, unless they’re heart combos.
@@modestomouso1234honestly, if you're going to lose, you are going to lose.
After the range filtering flop and turn, I would expect Hero's range to have some showdown, so really you have to tell villain you have a set or better and hope he folds his missed draws.
This is just very classic poker. I don't actually see many options. Sure hero could 3 bet pre sometimes with this hand as was discussed, but calling is quite standard. On the flop I think this is a clear check to the PFR. In this configuration of UTG vs BB single raise pot, villain is going to C-bet almost 100%. So I cannot see any reason to donk. I also see no reason to check-raise because hero is somewhat WAWB here. The turn card here is actually pretty neutral, improving hero but adding a backdoor & bringing in KQ & sticking hero if villain has JT+. Since villain bets pot, I see no reason for a check-raise. The river is as brick as brick can be. Villains over-bet is pretty polarizing, but we really must call here. You can level yourself into a "I know that he knows that I know" spiral, but the truth is that KQ will rarely over-bet here. People think they are trickier than they actually are. KQ wants to get paid.
This hand is actually a very good poker test. If you think hero played pretty much perfect, you're likely a decent or better player. If you think hero played this wrong, it's unlikely you're a good player.
What I wanna know what people think of you
@@justinhart7172 English only
I agree 100%, I was going to comment that posting this hand seems like a waste because it's pretty straight forward.
@@Nikkithedog-t6bYeah when he said HJ shoves I blurted out FOLD out loud. He was up against a made boat or nut flush for sure. He loses to every other 6 except 6/3. Clear fold, he missed any chance to win on the turn given this river.
QJ of hearts is another combo I could see going crazy with
I feel like that would always get checked back on the river because villain has no reason to think he’s behind, and therefore no reason to turn top pair into a bluff
Actually JQ of any combo.
QJ should pot control at least some portion of the times on the turn. Also should not use a polarized sizing
Caller is so full of shit saying he would find the hero call for almost 2x overbet on river if turn came an 8. You're never making that call without some solid history with villain. It would be a huge mistske and make you a station.
Would it really make that much of a difference though? What hands does villain play the same way that loses against 2 pair but not against a 10? As long as hero is not breating any of villain's value bets with 2 pair (or losing to any of villain's bluffs with just a 10) it's pretty much the same. You're only unblocking 3 set combos if the board runs 8 instead of 9, but then you're also losing all the KQs from villain's value range.
I play zoom online, some session for 15K hands on long ones. When villain polarises, in this case an overbet, people standardly call A high in a lot of spots, bottom pairs etc -- the value of ALL your bluff catchers are either + or - EV if villain is over or under bluffing, the vast majority of spots are under bluffed compared to solver balance, however some are overbluffed by regs.
If your thinking in terms of your absolute hand strength, then your not thinking about poker in the same way as professionals.
The minute villain overbets he’s repping sets + -- you could literally call bottom pair in this spot at the same EV as 910 or just a J.
So how do we determine which to call? First work out if you think this spot is over or underbluffed (opponents you think are bluffy probably still underbluff most spots but exploit the spots they think they can leverage the most fold equity)
Then determine if your blocking value or bluffs, however usually in most spots this is heavily outweighed by the tendencies.
And then if your thinking about calling a very weak pair or high card, work out if they are likely to turn a pair into a bluff in this spot.
So in this spot, if the turn was an 8 instead, I wouldn’t bluff catch an underpair (or call turn but assuming I did) - because I lose to bluffs like 99 that might start turning into a bluff in an overbluffed spot. 910 on river if turn was an 8 I would be more likely to fold to 75% pot because they can still be bet folding AA KK QQ or AJ and going thin. So 9/10 loses to many many more value combos. When villain bets 2x pot though, we now only lose to KQ and sets. So if you’re unsure, maybe you fold AJ (not blocking straights) but call Q10 which blocks some straights and most likely set that goes for value for 2x pot)
I hope this makes sense.
@@jasonhounsell3297I would think this spot is slightly over bluffed, with both bricked flush draws.
I would also think you would have to consider that Hero's range has filtered twice by calling flop and turn.
It seems to me like villain is an online player because that bet line is very exploit heavy in online pools.
I certainly use it quite a bit.
I am not a GTO crusher or crusher in general, I am a very slightly winning player at 25nl, so you and I are very much on different levels.
@@jasonhounsell3297as well as I think he might jam turn with T 9 5 sets, especially if Hero bet the turn ( can't remember if hero bet there).
I would leave the made straight in the check call range though, that way my check range is protected and I am slow playing nuts sometimes as well.
The thought experiment was whether or not the *turn* was an 8 instead of a 9, not whether the river was an 8, which of course would bring 4 to a straight.
I think the question the hero should be asking himself in this spot is "what kind of hand would the villain be trying to get to fold if he were bluffing" ? Once the 9 hits the turn, there are a LOT of those - straight and flush draws that also have a pair, so I think that makes it an easy call. What I wonder is what hands are folding to the overbet that would call a pot-sized bet ? I don't think there are many of those, a lot of the weaker bluff-catching hands are folding to a pot-sized bet on the river IMO.
Well played by both. NH
Simple call can’t raise spot but villain is really lost going for it at the end blocking the front door also.
I dI’m have a question. You say if a later position raises then you would 3 bet with this hand but the weird thing is isn’t a hand like this in that original in position raisers range?
random question, but something that been on my mind. I recently play 1/2 holdem at the MGM, and played for around 8 hours. Started off with 200 then stack got low and topped up for another 100. At that point i started slowly winning some small pots, building my stack. Then, about 7h into the session i win a couple big pots bringing me to over 1000. At that point, I played around 2-3 more hands then racked up (biggest win of my life). Is this considered a hit and run, even if I had been playing for hours? Im new to live poker so still not 100% on the proper etiquette.
Are you a regular in that game? If not, cash out any time you feel like it. Just get your phone out, read a "text", say I have to go guys, good luck... and rack up and leave. If some dipshit jibber jabbers about a "hit and run" just ignore them.
@@Dynamice1337 even if you are a reg, you can do it.
It is bad manners, but the point of cash games is that you can walk away whenever.
I think villain's river play was a spew for sure. We would much rather bluff bricked hearts than bricked diamonds since we unblock hero's missed front door draws. Also probably want our hand to have a K or Q to block the straight.
Also think villain's turn sizing is whack. The turn card is much better for hero's range so villain isn't "allowed" to bet that big.
Even if villain doesn’t open 87s UTG he will still have 4 combos of KQs that hero can’t possibly have. So I still think he’s allowed to go big on turn repping KQ. Obviously holding diamonds and no K/Q is not optimal whatsoever.
I play here 4 days a week , many of the 2/5 players are some of the toughest I have played. The 2/5 here a year or 2 ago was the best in the state but it's not the case anymore...
It's pretty weird. 2/5 there is often terrible, depending on the time of day 1/2 is probably easier to get a decent win rate at unless you're a crusher. Yet you can go to any other room within 2 hours (One Eyed Jacks might be the exception) and get a dream $1K cap game (if it runs).
Villain read hero to be capped and tried to muscle him off. It was clearly either that or value trying to look like that, but that's much less likely given little to no history bc Villain would often just be leveling himself and getting too many folds.
Given some of the time your hand might be good against an intended value bet, doesn’t that alone make it a call? (unless you’re playing against someone who wouldn’t bluff here)
These types of hands where you have a decent made hand plus all the draws are the best type to play passively if opponent is going to blast off
snap call
Seriously. Not sure what buddy is even thinking about. Poker is alive and well though.
I love playing passively against players who only view it as weakness
Caller seemed like he knew what he was talking about… then he said kk and qq could blast as a bluff bc they double block the nuts 😂😂
Live Poker is alive and well. I quit my day job here in Vegas years ago thanks to players like this.
Nice hh
lol at first I thought was the villain in this hand
Wouldn’t you want the person you’re bluffing to having the Ad. If the villain has it what to hoping the hero is folding
People still haven’t caught on to how big bets are sus no matter what.
Nah. As a pro this is exactly why i bet big when i got it. Love taking fish to value town.
That's why I always bet like a maniac when I know I'm ahead and play my draws passively on the turn and river (if i miss). If a guy puts money in on the flop, almost always he has something. If he has it I only wanna play if I'm ahead. In low stakes is the way to go.
@@webguy943 and that’s why they call you. Because it’s sus. Meaning it probably won’t work when you are bluffing.
@@tipsy09 depends on villain. I wouldnt bluff a calling station. I most def would bluff a tight player that can fold big hands.
@@webguy943 that's exactly what I look at (my player's profile) when facing river overbet. If my profile is tight, then....you got the picture which direction your chips will walk after your river bluff.
Maybe QQ
Used to be people only overbet when they had a hand, now they’re doing it as a bluff because computer tells them to.
How many times caller gonna say “fairly standard”
This hand is a prime example of why I think “blockers” are so overrated.
I prefer a donk lead OTT for value as well as charging draws and eval if raised.
Donking makes the dinamic werid when you have a medium strength hand. Because it makes it a lot harder to read your opponents hand, and makes it easier for him to read yours. For medium strength hands I prefer check calling and trying to catch bluffs. If you have a very strong hand just play a check raise, works much better. This is for low stakes ofc. Higher stakes you just got be balanced.
@@pedro.gandra
V has position and can certainly check behind OTT with all potential draws. You miss out on value as well as allowing V to fold unimproved on the River. Check raising unnecessarily bloats the pot with a “medium” strength hand and forces one to fold on the turn if V jams. Donk leading forces the V to better define their hand.
@@datsumcrzyshtDonking doesn’t accomplish anything here. They already covered that the turn sizing reduces the chance of villain having overpairs/top pair. So when you donk the vast majority of the time you are getting raised by KQ + the last combos of TT/99, OR you just force villain to fold all bluffs. Check-evaluating is 100% the correct play, villain is repping a hand stronger than T9 on the turn.
@@datsumcrzyshtThe value you miss by having that weak sliver of overplayed AJ/overpairs check back is significantly less than the value you burn by folding out villain’s bluffs.
Maybe he also has J 10.
Why not just raise all-in? If you're calling because you give him bluffs or overpairs that turned into bluffs, why not put the rest of the money in and give him a chance to make another mistake by calling off QQ-AA? What's the call accomplishing here? Hoping you lose the minimum on the off-chance he has JJ/TT/55/KQ/Q8/87?
3/4 pot, 1/1 pot, 5/3 pot? Does that scream set or straight? What's he hoping for you to have to try and bluff catch? Again, if you're calling here because you believe he's bluffing, then you should be getting it in. Else you should be folding.
Looks a lot like kq to me
Thing is, players in low stakes try to represent ONE specific hand way more often than they actually have the hand. Also, in live poker is much easier to pick up some tells. Low stakes poker is all about betting big for value, almost never bluffing, and hero calling in scenarios like this with the top of your range.
@@pedro.gandraOnly mistake villain made was his hand selection. He’d much rather unblock diamonds so hero could have them in their range of hands that fold river. Also would prefer to have a Q to block hero’s sandbagged KQo. However if villain structures his bluffs correctly then he can very well just polarize to KQ or nothing. Opening UTG he will have more KQ than hero does flat calling BB. And from his perspective hero shouldn’t have any JJ/TT. I can definitely get behind the bluff, however if he’s using front door combos with no blocker properties he’s overbluffing this spot.
@@emphatically Playing like that is completely unecessary in low stakes. Trying to attempt overbet bluffs at the river representing a single hand, etc. It will make your variance crazy and make it very hard for you to even know if you are a winning player. In low stakes people play so badly, so you only play big pots with big hands.
@@pedro.gandra So essentially you’re saying find 0 bluffs and only overbet with the nuts?
@@emphatically You can bluff sometimes, but yes, you should take smaller sizing and do it a lot less often. Overbetting only when you have 99% certainty you are ahead. Specially if your line doesnt make sense, you will get called very light.
Missed value by not raising the turn
Nope
@@jamespohl-md2eq 1-2 or 1-3 player?
This is super easy to say when you can see the cards lol. Villain is repping better than T9 on the turn so raising literally accomplishes nothing. Also folds out potential bluffs had you flat called and checked river instead. Having a “I have 2 pair I raise no matter what” mindset *will* lose you money in the long run.
@@emphatically I truly love your in-depth next level Analysis of your 1-2 games
@@rppoker8541 The classic “I got proven wrong so i’m gonna act like an ignorant douche”… I’m sure that’s gotten you far 😂 I will happily play you for any stakes. Please let me know the location so I can book my flight!
Snap call. over bet on river is 99% a bluff here; our hand is underrepped, villian assumes we've missed some sort of busted straight draw or have a weak top pair hand. Any value hand would bet much smaller because villian wants to make money. As played, he knows we won't hero call with 1 pair holdings and missed draws.
If I had the nuts against a player thinking on your level, I'd shove river and you'd pay me 😂
Well, unless your missed draw is AK/AQ villain wants you to call your missed draws. KQ will overbet this pot because you snap call...there are a ton of bluffs in his range...and if you know that now you're more likely to call with middlin' hands...and maybe even top pair. It's still a call, but not because he has zero value...he simply has more bluff hands than value hands.
He also potted the turn and 3/4th the flop. This is not a bluff 99% of the time. Doesn't mean that bluffs aren't there though but there absolutely are some strong hands that are possible
This comment makes absolutely no sense… Just because someone uses an overbet river sizing doesn’t mean their hand is 99% weighted towards a bluff, whatsoever. That’s such an amateur thought process it’s actually comical..
The entire meaning of polarization is that the range is condensed to either nothing or the nuts. So villain *should* go the same sizing with KQ here, which he will have all combos of because he raised UTG. However hero will only have offsuit combos because the suited variety is typically 3bet. Competent players find runouts where their range contains more strong hands and capitalize on it. KQ unblocks all sets/2 pair/ top pair hands that will call off a large river bet when draws brick. So if villain uses this large sizing with bluffs he should in theory always balance it with KQ.
The literal only reason you made this comment is because you got the reveal; had villain turned over KQ you would have wrote something to the notion of “I would’ve found the hero fold, overbet is super weighted towards the nuts here” 😂😂