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White 2-155 Repair Update - Looking for more Damage
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 ม.ค. 2020
- A follow up on the repair of the Hercules engine in my White 2-155. Checking for head and valve damage, and I disassemble the turbo charger to see if any pieces went through that.
So glad to hear that you're going to change all the sleeves and pistons. Such a wise decision.
Thanks for explaining everything so well. I really enjoy your videos. It’s great to see a farmer that can work on their own equipment. It makes me think of the issue today in farming called right to repair. Farmers need to be able to work on their own equipment,and not being able to will cost all of us in higher food prices. That issue may only effect farmers with newer equipment, but I’m not sure about the technical details. The other thing is we must all support our local family owned farms. We all know what has happened to local family owned businesses in our neighborhoods because of big box stores. They drive the small businesses out out, thereby eliminating competition, and then free to set any price they want. We have lost way too many small local farms. Local family farms generally provide better quality produce, milk and beef. Please support your local farm. I am not a farmer, but I grew up next to a dairy farm and worked there. That farm has been gone for years. It’s very sad. Thanks, don from New Hampshire.🚜
Hello from Moscow Texas... I run an old JD 4040, raise a few catlle. I just found your channel and really enjoy your videos! In process of catching up on all videos. All the Best!
Watching these takes me back to my childhood - I grew up driving a 1650, 1850 and a 2-85. Love to see them kept up and doing the work for which they were made.
Great tutorial video again, well explained with great commentary, it's nice watching a skilled craftsman at work, looking forward to the rebuilding and installation of the engine...
Keep up the good work...... 👍👍
Making the best of a bad situation, I'm enjoying watching your teardown and rebuild. Looking forward to seeing it on the dyno once you've got some break-in hours on it. :)
Good decision to go with new sleeves and piston, that thought of doing one hole and not all of them would haunt your mind forever, so good decision, really enjoy watching your videos.
I'm like you.
Keep em' as original as possible.
Anybody can"butcherize",but original is better.
Thanks Chris, Best of luck with the project. Looking forward to the next update.
Like that you are staying original. You do a great job explaining what’s going on.
And I’d say you’re making a good choice. You’ve got the engine torn down to that stage, might as well put new parts on when you put her back together.
I like the older equipment and the best thing is you don't have to worry about all the electronic Krap !!!!
I'll be watching till the end Chris !! Looks very clean !
As I had stated on your last video for this, we looked at it as an "investment". It's never a waste of $$$ if it's going give the engine longer life. Glad to see you're going to take the time and do it right. Down the road, you'll thank yourself for going ahead going through it. Great video. Cheers :)
I can't wait to hear her run! With all the extra horsepower, it will be like a new tractor!
Hey Chris, I think your making a good choice by replacing the sleeves and pistons. No time like the present! Like you said the engine is out now so why not especially since you have the parts in stock. Nothing like keeping tractors original. I am just catching up on your latest videos, we were out of town for 10days. I also watched the plowing video, that looked like a real slick setup.
Chris if I lived near you, you would probably have to get a restraining order against me because I would love to work on that. And drive those Oliver's. Lol
Yes I was and check the bore so it not to loose either thanks for the get back love the Oliver white tractors. Working on residing a 730 j.I. case diesel
Glad to see you decided to put in them Hc pistons and sleeves, that will breathe new life into that tractor and you. You'll never be sorry for that decision. As we get older we're always wishing we could be young again, well you just killed two birds with one stone right there. Love your video's and keep them coming.
I have to say for what you have for an engine it looks to be decent built and easy to work on
Right decision. Yes it's more cost but put in the context of you keeping this tractor for the rest of your life, it's a good investment!
Thank you for the update. Plenty to do on a farm.
Thank you for letting us watch this
New sub here, I don't run whites but I like seeing anything vintage out in the field. It proves you don't need hundreds of thousands of $ in equipment to get it done. Did you work in the shop at your family's dealership? You have more mechanical inclination than most farmers do. Mods "tastefully" done are fine, nothing is more irritating than having to fix somebody else's hack job. Hopefully she goes back together good for you, I have a couple sentimental tractors here as well I know the feeling.
Yep, if I wasn't farming I was turning wrench at the dealership.
The high compression pistons are the way to go plus it should have the same compression on every cylinder with new pistons rings and sleeves make sure to get all of the connecting rods resized I am a custom farm mechanic in Minnesota and I am very much a believer in getting the rods resized and new wrist pin bushings installed keep it original appearing internal modifications are perfectly fine keep up with the good videos 👍👍
Does the amount the valves protrude or recede into the combustion chamber after resurfacing of seats have much effect on compression? Would it be enough to make a difference in ease of starting, etc?
Glad to see the turbo was alright. I agree on throwing away $, but at least you're updating it.
Thanks for your videos, they are very interesting.
I was thinking of that old saying Don't be Penny wise and Pound foolish I think you are doing the right thing
I would recommend cutting the oil filter open and inspecting for metal if there’s metal in them I’d recommend replacing the oil cooler so the crankshaft doesn’t get fed oil with metal in it
It could be an optical allusion or maybe something was interfering, but I would think the turbo would free wheel longer when hand spun as you did.
I enjoy the videos!
Besides the 2 hoses on the upper water manifold, don't forget the 2 coolant hoses on the oil cooler. Also look into getting some silicone coolant hose if you want something that will outlast the stock hoses. We started using them on fleet trucks a while ago.
Agreed on the hoses going to the cooler, although they are much easier to get to than that one under the heat shield.
I was expecting turbo vain damage. This was good news it was saved.
A wee update to the old girl. Like Oliver 880 stated, I look fwd to seeing the dyno results. I too believe in keeping them as original as possible. Cheers
Well, things look good anyway!
Piston swap sounds like a good plan to me 😎 make er pop a little better..
Thanks for the video!!
Mo power!!!
Always more power always.
I've been wondering how you were coming along on the old Herc. That will be very interesting to see how it starts and performs with them higher compression pistons. And how it sounds too! I've always thought the military Hercs were louder than the ones in Olivers and Whites. Definitely interested in the pre-heater too. I'm sure there are others out there, just a matter of finding one that fits. Thanks for the update! Tell that machine shop you've got almost 7000 people waiting on them!
Lol about the machine shop. I kept saying they, but it's a one man show, a lot like me. I haven't been there since I did Blane's 1655 3 years ago. I walked in he said " hey Chris", we got the heads out and he says "which Hercules engine are these for?" He said someone had just brought in a complete engine to have rebuilt, he told them it would probably be the end of summer before he finishes it, and the guy still left it. I was going to ask him if he wanted a plug on youtube, but looks like he is busy enough without my help. He does excellent work and is very reasonable.
We've got a guy like this in our town too. He's the kind of guy you better not tell him it's no big hurry lol. I remember as a kid my Dad took the radiator from our swather off during oat harvest to get fixed as it was leaking. The guy told him he would get to it right away, but that didn't happen. My Dad got pretty impatient with him and called him up and chewed him out pretty bad. Let's just say I can't repeat the words here lol!
@@stephenfonder7409, this guy isn't quite like that. He gets lots of work and he doesn't sugar coat delivery times. I do have a guy that I take other parts to that you never tell that you're not in a rush. He does great work, just don't say "no rush", lol.
Machine shop called, heads cheked out and they are ready to go. I'm going to go get them now. Woot!
@@ThatOliverGuyChris Whoa!! Woot Woot!
Chris , I hope you read this when you put the new liners in check the bore on 6 also the deck height it very important. I think your failure came from a low liner. Very common and not seen by many that rebuild engines
If you're talking sleeve protrusion, I plan on checking that. Thanks for the tips.
Great job. 👍
I was getting ready to do a engine over haul to my 135 but ended finding a dirt cheap engine out of a deuce with 1400 hours. Sure beats buying a rebuild kit.
I was told that the selves on the Hercules would develop a hot spot and crack around 5K + hours. I don't have any experience with the Hercules so I don't know it that's true. We had a 2-105 with a Perkins and a 2-180 with a 3208 Cat in it.
I have a 1980 2 135 FWA. About 12 to 15 years ago (all most 11k hrs. on it) we had the engine completely gone through/overhauled instead of reposed it with a Cummings. The cost was about the same but had to add labor to replace gages plus there cost. The main reason we kept the Huc. was the difference in the weight of the engine over the front wheel drive, don’t remember the difference but it significant. You made the right decision! We latter found out that it was either the 3rd, 4th or 5th one to come off the line in Charles City in late winter of 1980, (late Feb early Mar.) the first year the 2 135 FWA were made. Still own it.
I'm glad you decided to do the pistons and sleeves, would be a shame to have it that far apart and not do it. I hope the high compression pistons work out like you hope, 4 points of compression is a big jump. You have to be wary of military "upgrades", their priorities are different than the average user. I would suspect in this case they were willing to sacrifice engine longevity in favor of being able to start reliably in any weather conditions. For them it would be a disaster if none of their trucks would start if they were on maneuvers in the arctic circle, but much less of an issue if one blew up occasionally. They have basically unlimited funds and their philosophy is to just put another one in it. A good example of this is when they used 8v71's in tanks (I can't remember which one), they had it turned up to something crazy like 950hp but in that application that's what they needed it to do. If it blew up (and they did) they put another one in, etc, etc... In regards to your tractor I believe it will run hotter with the new cr, keep a close eye on your temp gauge for awhile
You might want to consider having the old sleeves dye or magna checked for cracks. If they're good use them as trade goods.
Reminds me of M35A2/3 had Continental LD465 engines the A3 was turbocharged they were tough dependable engines.
Thanks for the videos. In your next video could you show the differences in the high compression pistons and oem? Thanks
Will do.
I think the oil line to your piston cooler is filled with dirt
Happens mostly on number six
Sometimes its only the Nozzle but in this case its hard to find out
I cannot believe that a small ceramic part runs trough your turbo and valves without leaving a single mark and destroys piston and sleeve completely
I understand you are replacing all sleeves so the oil boring will be cleaned also
Before tearing everything apart i would check boring for dirt just to be sure
Greetings from the netherlands
Nice to have the knowledge to be able to do the work yourself. I’ve got a Massey 135 with a Perkins 3cyl diesel. Got coolant in the engine oil. I’m assuming it’s the head gasket. Drained and flushed it with fresh oil. Don’t know if I have the confidence to tackle it myself. Injectors will have to come out and replace the seals etc. Any advice? Does gasket seal work or am I best to replace the gasket? Love watching you videos. Nice seeing the classic tractors. I’ve got a 1959 B275 international. 2 Massey 135 tractors a 1967 and a 1968. A British built ford 5000 a 1968. Also a 375 Massey a 584 international and an 8220 Massey.
If that Perkins 3 cylinder is a dry sleeve engine like the 354, it's probably a head gasket or a cracked head. I generally advise against stop leak products, but sometimes a person needs to get running or can't afford repairs at the time. There's a coolant system sealer called "K Seal" that really works well without being a bottle of sludge. I found it at a loal auto parts store.
Thanks for he share.,there plenty of meat in those engines.looks in clean condition inside.
Check the the backside of your turbocharger scroll (hot side) . Had a CAT engine, dropped a valve, valve head/tulip ended up in the scroll, came through a couple of years later and took out the turbo. Just think you should check it out.
Thanks for the update the hardest part of a rebuild is deciding where to stop. Sounds like you have a good plan the only thing i would worry about is you may call next week and the high compression kit will no longer be available that is my luck
Yeah, that's why I originally wasn't going to use this set.
Your Little Pry bar looks like one that I bought from Mac tools.... What do you use to lube the sleeve Orings with,,,,, JD sells a cylinder sleeve soap......My son drag races Big Cube small block Fords with fuel injected Turbo charged engines......So everything you explained is understood.......
These are dry sleeves, no orings. When I do wet sleeves I use dawn dish soap to lube the orings.
If it isn't too much work to swap out to the 8.3, I would hugely recommend doing that. So much better longevity, lower cost and tunability for power and fuel economy over the old stock engine you got there. If you get a wild hair, you might even consider going to a common rail Cummins. You could double power and double your fuel economy.
I wonder how the military pistons make more compression. Is the sombrero cup more shallow or did they move the top piston ring up like some of the Deere upgraded pistons. Would like to see a side by side comparison. Thanks Chris
i would think if you did the 8.3 swap you would have trouble planting power to get the most out the engine i have friend that did the 5.9 swap on a 1855 oliver and he has trouble with getting power to the ground if i am not mistaken the 8.3 is someplace in the 225 hp range i could be wrong on that
Hooray high compression!
Just found your channel and really enjoy your videos. i was curious, what is the difference between the 2-150 and the 2-155? My uncle had an open station 2-150 and it was a good tractor. I was raised on Olivers, Whites and Massey Fergusons.
The 2-155 and 2-150 are almost completely different tractors. The 2-150 used the Minneapolis Moline 585 engine coupled to an Oliver transmission that used external planetary final drives. The 2-155 used the Hercules 478 with what was at the time a new transmission and final drives, including inboard planetary final drives. They both used an over/under auxiliary transmission and a very similar hydraulic system, but even those had their differences.
Hi from Springport!
A Great set of videos. So what’s the difference between the 2 compression ratios?
White used 17:1 and the high compression are somewhere around 21:1.
That will put a crackle in the exhaust lol
Nice work and explaining! Is this Hercules engine the same engine used in some of
The Oliver’s? I know someone with an 1850 I believe with a Hercules. Maybe a 1950?
The 2050 and 2150 used the same basic engine. The 1850 used a 354 Perkins for the diesel engine, and the 1950 came with the 4-53 Detroit Diesel.
Chris Losey Yes you’re right the 1850 has a Perkins engine thanks for straightening that out for me
I wonder if you could delete the preheater with the higher compression pistons. Will you have to change the turbo to use the HC pistons?
I'm thinking about deleting the preheater, I'm still weighing options there. I plan on staying with my current turbo.
What brand and viscosity oil do you use Chris? I might magaflux that head but I'm paranoid ..
Shell Rotella 15w-40 for engine oil.
This is a lot better than a service manual, hoping I don’t have to use information though. 😁
What makes up the power difference in these engines, between the 2-135 and 2-155?
The fuel setting in the injection pump. There were drive train differences as well.
Chris Losey was wondering if the injectors were different etc. We run 3 whites, 2-85, 2-110 & 2-135. 25 hp gaps between respectively, and the difference between the 110 Perkins and Herc is dramatic.
There's no replacement for displacement. 😆
My mind is still not convinced it was that piece, especially after seeing those valves.
I'm thinking the sleeve just failed.
Love this video series on the White 2-155
3 electric solenoids on the engine block. I'm assuming one is for the starter. What are the other 2 for?
Thx
One solenoid for the starter, one for the manifold preheater, and one to power the cab.
ppl loop
Hello Chris a quick question, I now of a farm that has 2 Oliver 77's a 66 and 1550 diesel any what they might be worth I don't think they run also a 2 row Oliver mounted corn picker
Not running hurts value. If the engines are loose and sheet metal is all there, I'd say 500 on the 77, 700 on 66. 1550 diesels are a harder to come by, I'd guess around 1,000 to 1500, depending on if the engine is loose and conditions of the rest of the tractor. Mounted corn pickers aren't worth much more than scrap unless they they are in complete useable condition. If it's nice there are people looking for them, I'd guess around $500.
Thanks chris
Chris Losey thank you
What is the compression ratio with the high compression pistons? Should help reduce fuel consumption, along with all the other benefits.
21:1
@@ThatOliverGuyChris Ahh the good old school diesel compression ratios.
Are crate motor or long block assemblies still available for these tractors?
Not that I'm aware of. When our dealership was still open we could get complete surplus new engines cheaper than we could rebuild them, but that was over 20 years ago.
Chris Losey That was my thought too. By the way , I really enjoy your site. Having grown up on a 300 acre farm until my late teens,this is as close as gets to real time farming,in my younger days. Brings back many memories. Wish I lived closer so I could be a volunteer helper . God Bless you my good man.Be safe out there.👍🚜
All of a sudden either looks better than preheat lol. There much of a power difference on the hc pistons or just so u have the multi fuel option?
I was thinking the same thing about the ether. Lol
I've never heard if there's much of a power difference, but cold starting improves. I would think the extra compression would make some more ponies. The dyno will tell. Too bad I dont have a before reading to compare to.
I would doubt that the compression change alone would affect power, but it should make a huge difference in cold start ability as long as the batteries and starter have enough oomph to spin it. The traditional recipe for more power is to actually decompress the engine and then increase the cylinder pressure through more boost, the net result is more air in the cylinder which allows more fuel to be used which is where the power really comes from. I read years ago about some experiments with variable compression diesels, from what I gathered the research showed that the engines tested actually ran best and were most efficient at relatively low compression ratios, say 12:1 or so, and the high compression was only necessary for starting. Chris, I have been enjoying these videos (although I'm sorry for the circumstances that led to them), you are a hell of a good common sense mechanic and a pretty good video producer lol I've never seen one of these Hercules apart and I'm more impressed than I thought I would be, they seem to be built pretty stout. I wonder if the quality of the engines went up or down after their acquisition by White?
I've been wondering how you were doing with the 155. I tried to write before, but this damned lap-top with the syn-pad was giving me fits, so after 2 starts I quit!! LOL!! Glad to see you change out the rest of the sleeves and pistons, I wouldn't have felt comfortable knowing I'd lost one and not changed them all, but that's me. The 155 is a good engine, maybe a little thirsty, but until your upset very reliable, so I'm glad you are putting her back together. I cring,d a little when you pulled the turbo apart, I had a Banks system put on my 5.9 l. Cummins, they needed to put a larger turbo on, but when they tried to seperate the shells, they bumped the imp eller and bent the damned shaft! They were going to charge me $2500. for a new turbo! I said, the hell you are, some place here in Pheoinx someone can repair that one, $700. bucks later, which they paid for, she was good to go!
Dang, they must have dropped your turbo. I started with a rubber mallet, but that was getting nowhere fast. It sounds worse in the video than it was in person. I was only tapping on the bolt heads, never hitting the actual housing.
I wasn't standing there to see how they did it, but the shaft was bent and was unusable. The engine was in my '99 Discovery Motorhome. What a difference that made! That little motor, would set you back in the seat of a 37ft. coach.
Might be a throwaway but a 3208 is easier to tear down and fix on, other than the dry block.
I just a 2 135 with 3100 hours on it. The issue with the porcelain common or a bad luck incident. How often should it be changed to keep from happening? Just curious
I'm starting to think it is an isolated incident. This is the same basic heater that was used in the 77 and 88 on theough to the last of the Olivers and some of the Whites. With that many out there, it seems like I would heard of it more than the handful of times that I have.
Thanks for reply that is uncommon problem is good to know
Looks like a crack between the two valves?? or does it just look like a crack??
That's part of the head, they're all that way.
I know you’re pulling the liners anyway but of you weren’t, could you pull pistons and do a die penetrant inspection in the liners to see if any are starting to crack? Or is that not a thing with these motors?
I would think a person could. The internet thinks it was a problem with these engines. We had quite a few of these tractors in our area that were serviced at our dealership, and I don't recall it ever happening.
Chris Losey just for educational purposes it might be good to do it on the ones you pull anyway, just to see if they were starting to go. A dye pen kit is pretty cheap.
Good idea.
Does the 2-155 take the same pistons and liners as 2050, 2150, and 2-135?
Yes.
Its nice to know you can still get them.
Who's your AGCO dealer you deal with?
"Oxy / Acetylene is your friend, give them the heat." ;-)
Might as well save the old parts just in case. Lol If your free Saturday you could head to to Reading and take some footage of that sale with the 2-155 mfwd, 2-160 and 305 Allis for me. Lol
Is that a Sheridan auction?
@@ThatOliverGuyChris haines-sold.com/2019/12/16/farm-equipment-auction-reading-mi/
@@ThatOliverGuyChris Not sure if my link got spammed or not but no Its a Haines.
I haven't seen a flyer for that one. I'll look it up, not that I can go. My daughter has a band concert. TH-cam automatically marks links as spam. I can approve it later on the computer.
@@ThatOliverGuyChris Ok, I never new that until a few months ago. One of the whites has got front duals looks pretty mean.
OTHER SET OF FINS ON INTAKE SIDE THAT IS WHERE YOUR PICE WENT THROUGH.
Just do it up right the first time
Please let us know what you find on preheater. Have you ever checked the caps on the kingpins of the front end?
The preheater ceramic insulator had split. Two pieces were big enough to not get out of the heater coil, a third piece was missing. 2 of the splits looked older, and 1 was very fresh.
I had the right side king pins out to replace the seal where the drive shaft goes into the spindle. They were in excellent shape. I did replace a set on a 2-180, they were loose enough it allowed too much turn on the cv joint and ruined it.
@@ThatOliverGuyChris Are you going to try and get a different style, type of preheater? If you need parts for soma front end, I have a cheaper source than AGCO, They claim they supply agco.
That's good to know on the Soma parts. I thought wasn't much available for them any more.
Why do you not just get a core motor that isn't so significantly damaged? Or better yet, a good used motor? To put that much money and time on such a significantly damaged motor is pretty risky in my book. Best of luck with whatever decision you make.
How do I know a used motor is a good one? At least this way I know what I have when I am done.
@@ThatOliverGuyChris Actually with all the damage, I don't think there is any way to be assured of what you will have when you are done. That is a huge expense and a ton of labor to risk it. I have done some looking and that engine is a unicorn anyway. If it was me, I would definitely be going to a Cummins. I said this in a different comment, but you can easily double your power and fuel efficiency for half the price. If you do stay with that motor, have the machine shop magnaflux the crap out of it to ensure there isn't a crack you can't see.
I agree Original is better.
Could have been a lot worse!
Definitely!
Do you want to sell that tractor
Nope. We've always owned it, and it was the last tractor my dad ever drove.
We have a 2-85 and a 2-105 I like whites and olivers