Trying to Run our Turbo 670 Dragster on Methanol for the First Time | Here’s What Happened

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 25 ธ.ค. 2024

ความคิดเห็น • 899

  • @danw1955
    @danw1955 2 ปีที่แล้ว +294

    Several things I'm seeing wrong here. The bung for the O2 sensor needs to be further downstream to get an accurate reading. 2. Those V-twins have a set of diodes in the kill wire(s) between the coils to keep them from cross firing. Pull the kill wires right at the coil packs to see if you have a shorted diode. If it sparks, replace the diodes. (Personally, I'd get rid of the coils altogether and go with a crank trigger setup and some hotter automotive style coils and a Haltech type controller to fire them AND control the timing!) You'll need *a LOT* more timing if you're going to run methanol. 3. EFI wouldn't hurt either if you go the Haltech route. 4. Also needs a catch can that vents from both valve covers to open air, not back into the intake. The faster you go, the more expensive it gets! You can't just throw racing fuel at it and expect it to go fast without some ignition and fuel system upgrades.😉

    • @rad8078
      @rad8078 2 ปีที่แล้ว +8

      Yep, but once they figure it out it will be so so so worth it

    • @rad8078
      @rad8078 2 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      And how accurate can you get with only a crank position sensor and not a cam position sensor as well

    • @mrasrrcom111
      @mrasrrcom111 2 ปีที่แล้ว +9

      Don't even need to drop the coin on a haltech, speeduino would do fine with the setup

    • @shaynegadsden
      @shaynegadsden 2 ปีที่แล้ว +8

      no the O2 sensor can't be any further downstream there isn't enough exhaust for that if you have it too close to the tip you get outside air pulled back into the exhaust giving you a false reading

    • @short-circuitz
      @short-circuitz 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@shaynegadsden rule of thumb is min of 20” to tip. Looks like they got 24” or so, so could possibly move them further down. The ideal is min of 12” after manifold and min of 20” before tip. Tip length is more important as ambient air sucked in will have horrible effects on readings. So yea short exhaust makes it difficult for them to place bung. But they sided on the right side instead of too close to tip.

  • @stumpy0227
    @stumpy0227 2 ปีที่แล้ว +111

    Charles said it! When he touched the screwdriver AND the frame, he got nailed! It's a positive going to ground issue.Or they forgot the ground to the frame.

    • @jiimmyboy63
      @jiimmyboy63 2 ปีที่แล้ว +8

      Engine mounted over paint?
      No ground strap?

    • @kenwillis8487
      @kenwillis8487 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      I was screaming this at the screen! I replaced the engine on my sons go kart with brand new one and no spark I added a ground strap from a freshly ground spot on Fran to motor and bobs your uncle I had spark again! Only thing I can think of is the new engine was not making a good enough connection to the frame!

    • @cliffness420
      @cliffness420 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Which means any metal to metal loose connection they have there's going to be an arc

    • @brianbudd8487
      @brianbudd8487 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Definitely sounds like a ground problem...

    • @camyota
      @camyota 2 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      The coils get grounded when they are bolted to the motor. These motors can run floating in mid air, they don't need any other ground. The kill switch makes connection to kill it so even if it wasn't hooked up it would run. He got shocked when he touched the frame because the spark was finding its way back to the engine block through the frame and through Charles

  • @jayhow997
    @jayhow997 2 ปีที่แล้ว +47

    Put a catch tank in the breather line so the tank fills up way before the engine eats the oil through the intake.

  • @marzsit9833
    @marzsit9833 2 ปีที่แล้ว +80

    it's the connecting wire between the 2 coils that the killswitch wire connects to. this wire has a pair of diodes in it to prevent the coils from grounding out, but if one diode shorts out you will have no spark. to test it, unplug the wire from one of the coils so they are no longer connected so they cannot be grounded. a double coil failure is pretty much impossible, especially on this engine that has little time on it.

    • @jeffwain
      @jeffwain 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Was going to say the same thing. I had this problem back in the day when I use to maintain and repair Generac generators

    • @walter2670
      @walter2670 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Yep

    • @marzsit9833
      @marzsit9833 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@jeffwain it's a constant issue with briggs vanguard v-twins, i've only rarely seen it happen on hondas and kawasakis but i would expect it to be a problem on a chinese copy of a honda...
      personally what i would do is get rid of the connecting wire with the diodes, run individual kill wires to a double-pole killswitch or even a pair of ordinary killswitches connected to ground so only the switch can ground both coils. this could also possibly boost the spark voltage since the diodes are slightly leaky anyway and are probably killing a significant amount of primary voltage in each magneto.

  • @kevinr1704
    @kevinr1704 2 ปีที่แล้ว +87

    Check the "kill" wire going to the coils. You can unplug it at the coils and roll it over to see if you have spark then. That will let you know if it's grounding out, killing the spark. I know some of the Briggs twin cylinder engines have a diode in the kill wire and if it goes bad it'll kill spark.

    • @larryalexander4833
      @larryalexander4833 2 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      Thinking same thing or did they disconnect the wiring to rule out that possible issue??

    • @kyleewert5630
      @kyleewert5630 2 ปีที่แล้ว +22

      He keps saying there's only 2 things that could cause this. There's more including the kill switch. Also poor grounding.

    • @larryalexander4833
      @larryalexander4833 2 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      @@kyleewert5630 exactly

    • @RustyTaters
      @RustyTaters 2 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      My first thought was diodes.

    • @leebenson4874
      @leebenson4874 2 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      @@kyleewert5630 I was thinking pour ground as they have spark to a body which is a battery.

  • @TacoCatMafia
    @TacoCatMafia 2 ปีที่แล้ว +35

    I think it's a grounding problem because when Charles wasn't touching the frame he didn't get shocked but once he touched the frame he got shocked

    • @shawnsatterlee6035
      @shawnsatterlee6035 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Is this a joke? Lol ....

    • @boilshifter1350
      @boilshifter1350 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      I I wondered about that I caught on to that comment too

  • @elliot999
    @elliot999 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Good book choice Charles, I got that one for my kids!

  • @tkskagen
    @tkskagen 2 ปีที่แล้ว +9

    For the "Airgap" between the Coul should be "general business card thickness" distance (about 0.010" 0.015") for a good spark.

    • @fredbadgett7962
      @fredbadgett7962 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      On ARC brand flywheels, they recommend .050 gap. The rare earth super strong magnets they use can fry a coil if set closer.

  • @Vindictus67
    @Vindictus67 2 ปีที่แล้ว +124

    You're going to need a puke tank(catch can), on the breather line coming off the engine. Those engines throw a lot of oil mist into the intake, and if the crankcase winds up being pressurized from engine boost, you'll wind up with a dry sump in no time - not good for the engine. The oxygen sensor is too close, and should get moved back a bit, or readings will be off, and it might even overheat, and burn up...

    • @motojunkie7243
      @motojunkie7243 2 ปีที่แล้ว +10

      Also, it kinda ruins the benefit of running alcohol, as it will really reduce the octane adding all that oil vapor into the mix

    • @timothybayliss6680
      @timothybayliss6680 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Alcohol and nitro usually have lower egt than gasoline. Its actually pretty hard to hurt the sensor from high temp with an alcohol or fuel engine. Bosch LSU sensors are rated to 1800°f.

    • @sambrook8084
      @sambrook8084 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Gonna want a surge tank for fueling too

    • @SkrixFox
      @SkrixFox 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      You are absolutely on the mark. It also wouldn't hurt to get some strong MSD ignition coils and have them be computer controlled. I know Holley makes a couple great computers like the Sniper and Terminator X. They also need to include a surge tank for fuel and an oil catch can. Having a diaper on the motor wouldn't be a bad idea either seeing as how the blow was not designed for that much power and it would protect the driver since they are so close and have a very thin firewall.

    • @james10739
      @james10739 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      And the pcv should probably be plumbed in between the car and turbo as well

  • @johnsanden5795
    @johnsanden5795 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Hey guys. I've watched every episode and love the channel. I just figured out how to comment. I finally gave up on my 670 and moved onto another project. You guys got me into the mini bike and gocart hobby and since I'm a disabled vet with a family this low budget hobby is great for the whole family. Thx guys can't wait to see your next build

  • @Fukuimold
    @Fukuimold 2 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    I really like that Red Beard is so helpful and helps keep the momentum alive! I’m a fan of both channels looking forward to a new cars n cameras race event with everyone! I really enjoyed the last one

  • @maxxproductions7749
    @maxxproductions7749 2 ปีที่แล้ว +48

    Pretty sure the O2 sensor is supposed to be at least 8-10 inches downstream from the flange to get an accurate reading

    • @danialbargas2203
      @danialbargas2203 2 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      That's what I was thinking so it a more true reading

    • @alternator7893
      @alternator7893 2 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      @Utube Fknsucks bro you read my mind, I was thinking at least 15 inches.

    • @Edward_John
      @Edward_John 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I like your screen name

    • @Edward_John
      @Edward_John 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Utube xxxxxx

    • @mindovermatter3988
      @mindovermatter3988 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Actually it's between 18 and 24 in away from where the exhaust exits. The reasoning for this is you need to give time for the sensor to be able to accurately measure the gas is flowing through it if you're too close to the exhaust tip it will interfere with the reading because of fresh oxygen coming into the exhaust between each pulse, and if it's too close to where the exhaust is exiting from IE the cylinder head or turbo it could read a bit too rich & also could lead to overheating the sensor.

  • @jlucasound
    @jlucasound 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Ya, know, Charles. We can see John up there in the office, slackin' off. He's leaving you to do work, while sittin' on his Aaah! I'm Just breakin' em!! That building and your builds are so interesting. You did a nice job with the layout. Professional. I am so glad and not surprised you made the 1M. So Cool! Be safe, Guys!🚀

  • @esqueue
    @esqueue 2 ปีที่แล้ว +7

    8:19 Yes, that was a great call and I was thinking of a way to double nut it but the cotter pin idea is better and more serviceable.

  • @Vindictus67
    @Vindictus67 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Good call on the diodes. They are what are commonly referred to as "anti-kickback" diodes. They allow grounding of both coils at once, to shut the engine down. If they are not in there, and the engine is started, the inductive surge from the primary of one coil to the other could be as much as 100 volts - probably what hit Charles.
    If one or both have gone bad, the ignition is either grounded, or one coil isn't working, depending on what went bad, in what combination. Lift the wire between the coils, and float the kill wire off ground - if you get spark on one or both coils, you found your problem.
    Also, use a spritz of gasoline in the intake, to make your initial checks. Methanol is much harder to burn, and if you use nitro, you'll probably want to start up on gasoline anyway - a nitro backfire can blow the heads right off the engine, if the concentration is high enough.
    Check with Red Beard, too - he has been playing with methanol, too. Might have some ideas for you...

  • @williamstamper442
    @williamstamper442 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    10:13 "yes sir" you can just tell ole John was in the military!
    Love you guys. Gotta be honest, life has been in the way and I've missed this whole series so far... But picking up here seems natural and just like the same good old times!

  • @cheathunderwood
    @cheathunderwood 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Should have started by now. That thing has never failed to start . Keep up the good work.

  • @porksboy
    @porksboy 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    I gotta say, good for yall for wearing hearing protection. I didnt when I was younger. I ran engines in frames without exhausts other than headers. I worked in very loud shops. I spent many hours on out door firing ranges. Didnt wear hearing protection. The constant ringing in my ears is the price I will pay the rest of my life. Tinnitus sucks.

  • @olekaarvaag9405
    @olekaarvaag9405 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    This might be the most innuendo heavy episode so far. I've said it before, but I love this build and I'm so excited to see this evolve and get better and better.

    • @jeffrykopis5468
      @jeffrykopis5468 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Innuendo? Isn't that an Italian brand of suppositories? 🤣

  • @otm646
    @otm646 2 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    5:10 fastener design guy here, you need to be extraordinarily careful when lubricating fasteners for installation. Adding that lubrication dramatically changes the torque tension relationship. So you're getting a whole lot more clamp load for a given input torque. The problem is there's no easy way to tell how much more clamp load. So it's very easy to over torque the assembly if it was designed using dry torque specs. It could be a 50% reduction in input torque for the same clamp load, I'm not talking about a percentage point one way or the other.

    • @adamc1713
      @adamc1713 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      He's right guys. Unless the torque spec calls for oil on the threads, you want them dry or you will over stretch the bolts. (mechanical design engineer)

    • @AlienLivesMatter
      @AlienLivesMatter 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Wd40 probably better than oil for threads

    • @adamc1713
      @adamc1713 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@AlienLivesMatter No lubricant of any kind unless the bolt manufacturer calls for it, Clean dry threads only.

  • @cheerdiver
    @cheerdiver 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Charles' dedication reminds me of a tale dad would tell:
    For Sat night entertainment, some guy would get drunk, collect a few bucks and hold the hot end of an ignition coil. Allowing the spark to jump from his 'small head' to the car's fender.

  • @garypeterson9083
    @garypeterson9083 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    I love the dragster, probably my favorite of all your builds. My only suggestion would be to ditch the full size battery for a motorcycle one. I bet you would loose a lot of weight. Rock on guys, can't wait for the next video.

  • @Enigma-Sapiens
    @Enigma-Sapiens 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Head studs will hold better than bolts, especially in aluminum. With studs, you get a straight pull whereas with bolts they have to deal with twisting forces too which can weaken the bolts.
    The magnets can weaken and cause you to lose the spark. Keep replacements on hand.
    I wrote the last right before Ike mentioned it. I'll leave it in case someone ever needs to know and misses it in the video.

  • @theiaminu5375
    @theiaminu5375 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    If you do get it started , be advised . when its running on nitro , it will run without spark and the only way to shut it off is to take away the fuel ...look for iron filings somewhere , it will change the shape of the magnetic field ...Another thing that happens is the magnet can crack and create an additional N/S transition somewhere in the middle of the magnet and the coil can't fully charge ...Its counterintuitive but suppose the magnets north pole approaches the coil ..The pole piece closest to the magnet becomes a south pole and the one furthest away becomes north ... It remains that way until the magnets north pole reaches the coils north pole where the magnetic field in the coil suddenly reverses ....Bet your magnet has a microscopic crack ...

  • @lukemeier1853
    @lukemeier1853 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    You know, sometimes when you guys have problems sometimes that's the most exciting thing to watch because we get to guess what the problem is and see if we're right. You learn more from your mistakes than you do from your successes....

  • @thetrueivaid
    @thetrueivaid 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    With soaking head bolts in oil, you also have to calculate the torque wet vs dry. And on some engines, they cannot be wet. Like an LS the head bolt goes into a closed hole, if there is oil in it, it can crack the block, because there is no space for the liquid to go.

    • @marcmo7138
      @marcmo7138 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I commented the same thing. Guess I should have read the comments. Anyway Ill like your comment.

  • @jameswarren423
    @jameswarren423 2 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    Sorry to see you guys having such a hard time with this beast! but she still looking great with all the upgrades can’t wait to hear and see it run, good luck guys and keep up the great work!👍🏼🤩💪🏼

  • @Jeffrose_
    @Jeffrose_ 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    No worries. I love your videos. It's always fun and a good time. I can hardly wait to see it run down the track.

  • @jlucasound
    @jlucasound 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Wow! Your viewers know their stuff! Very impressive!

  • @GodschildinNC
    @GodschildinNC 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    You guys are learning alot doing this. I can't wait to see how this goes.

  • @mirmind3675
    @mirmind3675 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Sometime my cart is picky about voltage. Hard start under battery at 12v, but a jumper box with 13.5 volts makes it fire right up. Worth a shot to see if a little extra voltage brings it to life. And definitely check the ground cable. Engine -> chassis -> battery

  • @JohnHill-jm7tm
    @JohnHill-jm7tm 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    This Old Man from Washington NC has faith y'all will get it running. A lot of good comments have already been posted. Love you Guys. 🛵🧔💝💝💝

  • @mixerman1
    @mixerman1 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    I added a like of course but I get a good laugh out of John confusing Nitro Methane and Methanol...I have always liked this build

  • @jeremypike9153
    @jeremypike9153 2 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    You have a short to ground somewhere. Check the wire running to the kill switch from one end to the other. Also check the kill switch it could have failed and is allowing the short to ground that kills the ignition stopping the engine when you want to shut it down. It doesn't have to be a dead short it just has to be easier to short out than the spark plug jumping the gap.

    • @bradley3549
      @bradley3549 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      The easy way to rule this out completely is to just unplug the kill wires from the coils. Takes the whole thing out of the equation.

    • @jeremypike9153
      @jeremypike9153 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@bradley3549 yeah your right I wonder if they have tried it

  • @musicauthority7828
    @musicauthority7828 2 ปีที่แล้ว +19

    Depending on the track you are racing at. you could have to pay for clean up costs if you lay down fluids on the track. I doubt the coils are the issue. it's extremely rare that coils go bad. ask yourself when the last time you have had a coil quit working. it's more than likely either a grounding issue. or the gap between the coils and the magnets, or a wiring issue. you have to use a procedure to back track the problem. first off did you add anything to your ignition switch that wasn't there before. if so you are going have to find out which of those circuits is causing the problem. it could be resistance in the ignition system you need to pull up a wiring diagram for that ignition system. if you did add other accessories to the ignition switch. or in other words your main on off switch. you may have to add another on off switch just for those accessories. because they could be interfering with the ignition system. the ignition system may require its own dedicated switch. that's more than likely the issue. because like you said there's not much else that could be the problem.
    after thinking about it that is your problem. because you added the fuel ratio guadge and the 02 sensor. and I distinctly heard you switching only one switch. remove those accessories from your ignition switch and add a separate switch for them.
    something else that I got thinking about. is you will have to have catch cans for all fuids. such as oil,or coolant, or any other fluids that could be coming from the engine. something else you need is a main battery shut off switch. or you won't be able to pass tech. at the track.

    • @ghomerhust
      @ghomerhust 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      ike did complain about not remembering which way the switch went for the kill line, theres every possibility that it's the kill system that bunged up and the system is actually getting plenty of spark, enough to feel even with the kill engaged

    • @musicauthority7828
      @musicauthority7828 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@ghomerhust That's no true, if it was getting all the spark it should have been getting? it should have nailed Charles much harder than it did. they only had one switch when it should have had separate switches for all the other accessories.

    • @jcerullo5015
      @jcerullo5015 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Yes put a diaper's under that motor You dont want to be the guy who oils down the track.

  • @TheRoulette77
    @TheRoulette77 2 ปีที่แล้ว +25

    feels like ground/earth issue to me especially since chucky was shocked by touching the frame...

    • @Izreal3345
      @Izreal3345 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Same thing I was thing too hummm!

    • @jfv65
      @jfv65 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Yeah, block to frame, frame to battery.

    • @mr.mullet6881
      @mr.mullet6881 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@jfv65 just coil to block and block to frame the battery has no play in this system

    • @TheKurtTribute
      @TheKurtTribute 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Wouldn’t matter if the engine was grounded properly to the frame or not. The ignition systems on these engines are grounded to the block itself, you could run it bolted to some 2x4’s and it would still work.

    • @TheKurtTribute
      @TheKurtTribute 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@mr.mullet6881 Block to frame doesn’t matter either unless the kill switch is wired to the chassis ground. However, even in that case, if the block to chassis ground is bad the kill switch simply wouldn’t ever turn off the ignition.

  • @chrisv6008
    @chrisv6008 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Your a good man Charlies for putting up with a "know it all"

  • @jlucasound
    @jlucasound 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Try spinning the flywheel by hand and see if there is spark. I forgot how it happens but sometimes the starter button can get wired in a way that grounds the coil when engaged. I noticed Charles got zapped right when you let go of the starter button.

  • @scottcrabtree8923
    @scottcrabtree8923 2 ปีที่แล้ว +32

    Think the 02 needs to go 6 to 10 inches from back of head or of turbo. Can't wait to see it run down the strip. Hopefully tuning doesn't give you to big of a problem. I'd start with 02 placement if it dose.

    • @WyFoster
      @WyFoster 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      More importantly, you need to be that far away or more from the tip in order to not get fresh air flowing up the exhaust pipe. I'd say their mounting is the best they could do with that exhaust pipe. The gasses still have gone through the turbo manifold, and through the turbo. They're probably quite well mixed by then.

    • @neoxela00
      @neoxela00 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Agree, don’t want to burn it out.

    • @rydplrs71
      @rydplrs71 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@WyFoster no the distance is about completion of combustion to get accurate readings.
      That said you also don’t want to be to close to the output for the reasons you mentioned. They may need a longer pipe to satisfy both needs.

    • @WyFoster
      @WyFoster 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@rydplrs71 Methanol, you really don't get complete combustion. You run so fuel rich, especially in turbo applications. We'll see how it goes.

    • @HunterTuned
      @HunterTuned 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Placement is not going to matter that critically much it will still read the same the sensor may just run hotter.

  • @4x4BMW
    @4x4BMW 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Nice . Not straight or square or round . But aligned and true ... Hell yeah guys I hope it rips now

  • @henkoosterhof5947
    @henkoosterhof5947 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Yes gents, oiling the bolts reduces the friction. But then the torque should be special for oiled bolts. If not you overstrech them because they turn to easy. Same goes for anti seize.
    Did you leave the power on without the engine running? Put the kill switch in run posission?

  • @hunnybunnysheavymetalmusic6542
    @hunnybunnysheavymetalmusic6542 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    YAAAYYYY DRAG RAIL!!! LETS SEE WHAT BLOWS UP!!! I MISS THIS THING!!!

  • @kellytaylor3915
    @kellytaylor3915 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    I would ground the engine with 7/8” flat braid ground straps to the frame to a good clean spot. just to make sure that your not chasing a ground issue gremlin.
    Looking forward to hear it run.

  • @HunterTuned
    @HunterTuned 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Hope you guys see this as I will try to help best I can. I never use those innovate widebands they are complicated and fluctuate like crazy from my experience tuning cars. I highly recommend a aem x series wideband gauge plug and play power ground done. As for tuning with methanol or any other fuel you can still use the gasoline scale as I do with ethanol and methanol. Shoot for 12.5-13 air fuel idle and light throttle and In boost closer to 11.0 air fuel with gas scale no matter what the fuel. No need to overcomplicate it! Also methanol won’t want to fire on it own may need to bring a helper fuel along in a spray bottle to get it to pop off.

  • @lukasboyer3099
    @lukasboyer3099 2 ปีที่แล้ว +8

    When you are running methonal or nitro methane you need a hotter ignition system because nitro and methonal have a higher flash point

    • @mindovermatter3988
      @mindovermatter3988 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @Utube Fknsucks no they have spark it's just too weak to ignite the methanol, this is a common problem with these stock style coils without ground straps or a higher voltage rating on them. John and the other dude we're getting shocked from the spark when they tried it. Clearly seen in the video. They just don't have a hot enough spark for the fuel they're running.

    • @300zxdriver
      @300zxdriver 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@mindovermatter3988 They couldn’t even see a spark with the lights off.

    • @rydplrs71
      @rydplrs71 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      It would be interesting to see the data about increased compression of boost lowering the ignition temperature vs methanol increases.

    • @mindovermatter3988
      @mindovermatter3988 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@300zxdriver again the spark is way too weak but they do have spark, if they can feel it and get shocked by it then there's definitely spark but it's just too weak, and again like I said before the coils they're using don't contain a ground strap, yes they're grounded out the block but when adding an additional ground strap will lower the effective resistance and allow a hotter spark not only that the coils they're using seem to be a stock style coil which is going to have a lower voltage rating than a racing coil which has a higher voltage output for a more powerful spark. You can check me on this all you want but higher voltages can much more easily jump gaps through air because the higher voltage is much more easily able to ionize whatever gases are within it. That's literally what a spark is. When you have a lower voltage rating it's a lot harder for that spark to jump a gap. You can also test how high a voltage is by how far it's able to jump a gap. Higher voltages can easily jump farther gaps than lower voltages. So to say they aren't getting spark is wrong especially when you can see in the video that they're getting shocked by what seems to be power being created from the magnet spinning by the coil which induces an AC current and that's what is used to generate spark. Very simple way to get spark. The magnets on their flywheel are also much more powerful than a stock flywheel so I don't think this has much to do with their magnets. Much more likely that they need better gap on the spark plugs better wire being used on the spark plugs ( lower resistance) and a hotter coil with a ground strap. If you knew anything about drag racing with these style of engines or any small engine then you would already know this.

    • @300zxdriver
      @300zxdriver 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@mindovermatter3988 It just ran the other day. Even bone stock you would see spark with the lights on. This has nothing to do with what fuel they are running at this point. No way both coils would be bad … ( odds are way against it ) you can check coils with a multimeter real quick. Also nothing wrong with the magnets, you saw the screwdriver stick to them. Disconnect the wires to the kill switch….Also the gap should be the thickness of a business card.

  • @rettbull9100
    @rettbull9100 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Magnativity...word of the day.

  • @FarmerFpv
    @FarmerFpv 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    You have a bad ignition bulb and the Capacitor is out of O2. Make sure to bring the methanol to a boil so that the coil bushing can rotate freely. Also, don't forget the carburetor filter bearings and piston grease. The only other thing I can think of is Ike put the pressure nozzle from the steam valve on the wrong waste basket. Let me know if you need any other help. One more thing, check the coil springs for proper tension and correct vibration levels. Good luck guys, hope this helps.

  • @trinitymarkmusic1920
    @trinitymarkmusic1920 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Concerning your intake, IF you dumped that little round air filter, built a square aluminum box with round outlet to the carb, and picked up a K&N flat type filter that would say fit a Dodge 318 94 - 02, that would give you a HUGE boost in incoming air flow, without restriction, thanks to the K&N filter. You may could even taper the end to the carb for a venturi effect. Bet your power boosts too.

  • @tic-tacking4631
    @tic-tacking4631 2 ปีที่แล้ว +11

    Check to see if the kill switch is bad...I have seen safety switches go bad on some zero turn mowers that make it seem that both coils are bad...try testing for spark with the kill switch disabled.

    • @OverlandOne
      @OverlandOne 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      I thought the same thing and was going to post it, but then Ike said they tested after by-passing the kill switch with the same result.

  • @jasonlopez4855
    @jasonlopez4855 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    You need a catch can for the oil overflow that's what you should use they're not very expensive $15 to about 50 plastic or aluminum. Hope you guys have big return lines.

  • @kenscheffer298
    @kenscheffer298 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    You guys and red beard are the absolute best

  • @JB-dk3qc
    @JB-dk3qc 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    It may take from nostalgia.......make it a rear engine dragster. Takes away from all that chain. Keep up the great work guys. Good Luck

  • @1994shomn
    @1994shomn 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Resistor on the grounding wire replace the wires the are capable of grounding the Magneto's, have had that problem dozens of times with different engines twin cylinder engines, I believe it's what's keeping you from getting spark or the wires grounded out on the frame or shielding, I believe the frame is shocking you not the spark, could always remove the grounding wires to the magnetos but then no way to shut it off unless you choke it to death

  • @oikkuoek
    @oikkuoek 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Adding to all the other knowledgeable people on this comment section, if you oil soak a dead head bolt, you risk the threads. When the oil inside the hole, between the bolt head and the bottom heats up, it expands and pushes the bolt out of the hole, or cracks the block. If you insist on using a thread lubricant, use a thin layer of specified goo that doesn't run. Excess oil can make the bolt bottom out before it gets tight and stretched, so your lubricated torque reading doesn't match the clamping force to the head. i.e the bolt is tight but the head is loose. And further more, when running boost, you need a different head gasket and more threads in the block/cylinder with tighter torque spec. Ideally when external cylinder is used, the head bolt clamps the cylinder to the block.

  • @MaxsGarajMahal
    @MaxsGarajMahal 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Run a wire directly from ignition switch to solenoid exciter post. If there is a break in the harness between ignition switch and solenoid it should put 12v to the solenoid then the coils.

  • @VermontPaintandPhoto
    @VermontPaintandPhoto 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    John you all should switch the oil vent over from nut on inside to a truck style that has nut on outside only with like on a tractor tire..cotter pins snap and go into tiny pieces.

  • @masonmattice3106
    @masonmattice3106 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Same thing happened to me with my v twin predator and it was the little coil diode box on the motor and it fixed the problem

  • @8bert9
    @8bert9 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    I would use a multimeter and check the resistance from your negative battery terminal to the engine block and look to see if you have a good ground.

  • @TA-nc3cy
    @TA-nc3cy 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Always a great day when cars and cameras uploads a new video.

  • @WorldRoger
    @WorldRoger 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Hey guys, so I think everyone is close, but if it was ground as well if the frame wasn't grounded to the block then the guages wouldnt light as well the starter wouldn't engage, the coils are gounded to the same block the starter is grounded through. However I would bet that Charles would get shocked if it touches the engine block as well while holding the screwdriver. But got to look at obvious, it ran before engine removal and reassembly, there's a wiring issue somewhere, magnets just don't go bad and I've never seen both coils fail . I would be checking fuses, and all the wiring as I feel something has been missed.

  • @jolla9963
    @jolla9963 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    There is more to "Ethynol is not your friend" than it being big bang juice. It has all sorts of tricks up it's sleeve, but once tuned, woo-hooooo!.
    Looking forward to seeing your eyes water from the exhaust fumes..

  • @highway445
    @highway445 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Good call with the cotter pin. I was thinking the same if it loosened.

  • @seansysig
    @seansysig 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Bonded ground strap and a catch can are a must!

  • @billsmith5166
    @billsmith5166 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    It looks like a ground problem. Check to see if you have current from the frame or engine to the battery terminal while you're trying to start it. Is the coil working? Check the wires/looked for heat anywhere in wiring?

  • @ni_wink84
    @ni_wink84 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Once you start playing with exotic fuels a lot of things change, even once it has spark it’s going to need some sort of timing control especially with methanol, alcohol burns and ignites differently than gas, and likes a lot more cylinder pressure to run correctly. I think you guys are on an amazing track to build a very serious car here just a few things to iron out and it’ll be pretty crazy

  • @shotsrodder
    @shotsrodder 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Nice fix on the air cleaner mod 👍 I was worried about the nut coming loose 😬

  • @rtb4008
    @rtb4008 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Retrofit a HEI ignition system. I have done this on motor cycle engine's/tractor engine's using Ford dura spark pick ups and Ford/ or GM HEI module's and what ever 12v coils u have around

  • @lukecombs5242
    @lukecombs5242 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    I had a 94 Honda 300 4x4 and swapped all the electrical parts from a running 300 Honda and it ended up being weak magnets in the flywheel after swapping the flywheel it worked great

  • @zacotis2550
    @zacotis2550 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Oiling the threads and torqueing them is referred to as “wet” torque. You typically get around 30% more force for the same “ft/lb” value with wet threads
    Dry threads is “dry torque”
    The torque spec specified by the manufacturer will normally be stated explicitly as wet or dry torque- if it’s not stated it’s assumed dry but you can always contact the manufacturer for clarity

  • @TheTrueVoiceOfReason
    @TheTrueVoiceOfReason 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    For all the self-assuredness, you need to take further advice from the peanut gallery. Since you still cannot get spark where you had spark before (without touching the rest of the control circuitry) then something you did caused it. As many others have pointed out, check your grounds, all the way from the battery to the head(s). As a check, try checking for spark when you hold a plug against the case of the engine, rather than the heads. If you have a good ground and a jolt (per Charles), then check whatever control unit you have.
    Ultimately, you had a running engine that you took apart and put back together. It has to be something off in your assembly.

  • @adamk2332
    @adamk2332 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Are you sure it's not an internal ground short in the kill switch? I noticed when Charles got shocked it was also at the same time you flipped positions on the switch. If at that moment, You broke connection on, say, a corroded Internal part of the switch, and then it hit the detent on the other side, then you went from "kill engaged, ignition shorted" (no spark), to an internal dead short (no spark, or vice versa, with a brief point in switch travel where it was rising up the detent catch, and it completely broke the short, allowing the plug wire to do its thing. My dad had a tiller with a one wire-from coil kill circuit. After sitting out in the humidity for too long, it failed to start for that reason, but would run with the switch midway between kill and run. I replaced the switch with a watertight forklift auxiliary switch (on-off 2 position push button with a silicone cover) its been right as rain. If the switch is mounted and the body Is grounded, I'd bet the internal portions of the switch are corroded

  • @Innovaspeed
    @Innovaspeed 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    I've seen so many issues with the stock ignition system on these motors. I went to the Performance670 electronic ignition and it works super well. Not hard to install and setup.

  • @edwarddalinger1003
    @edwarddalinger1003 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Guys check your grounding cables because that's what it sounds like to me. If you hold the screwdriver and it wont shock you till you touch the frame its definitely a ground issue

  • @ccright8285
    @ccright8285 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    I've been waiting for this episode and I'm just as stoked for the next one.

  • @sawyerbennett8227
    @sawyerbennett8227 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Upcoming videos are going to be sick. Can't wait

  • @LowMedow
    @LowMedow 2 ปีที่แล้ว +14

    Methanol Take Alot Of Spark To Ignite. 💥

    • @Johnnyreengo
      @Johnnyreengo 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Yeah but that’s moot bc they aren’t getting spark at all

    • @JB-dk3qc
      @JB-dk3qc 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Have to have spark first.

  • @geecee4
    @geecee4 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Charles: “It’s got a lot of Boron in it”. LMAO!!!

  • @charlesendicott9044
    @charlesendicott9044 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Well damn I was so excited when ur video popped up guess I have to wait along with guys to see it run .

  • @jacekjackowski9057
    @jacekjackowski9057 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    greetings from Europe 😊🤩🍻

  • @pekkahelminen7801
    @pekkahelminen7801 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Been watching your videos and seems to be a trend to guess the fuel air ratios.. get a wideband afr gauge and change it from project to project, takes much off from guessing game. Installation in somekind of plastic box. Easy to take on and off from project.

  • @mikesthundergarage3793
    @mikesthundergarage3793 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    you should be using arp ultra torque lube. reason to use lube is fir accuracy, and protect threads from binding a galling

  • @race-all
    @race-all 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Hey guys when running fuel the your ing timing has to be advanced. Your efi has to be for fuel. Methanol & nitrol mix burns slow. Mostly the methanol burns slow & you will need bigger jets. Talk to someone that runs fuel.

  • @eugenesbackyardrepair4593
    @eugenesbackyardrepair4593 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Charles that vent would of looked cool with some neon green hose lol

  • @tough101
    @tough101 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Love that dragster!

  • @oldhillbillybuckkowalski
    @oldhillbillybuckkowalski 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Ideally you should oil the threads as well as the spot faced (Machined surace) on the heads where the head of the bolt will land. This is done because the measured amount of torque applied to the bolt when tightening it is a measurement of two factors:, each one consumes a percentage of the force being applied to the fastener being torqued.
    1. Clamp load, or how much "squeeze" is being applied to the mating surfaces/gaskets of the parts being joined.
    2. Frictional load, which, as the name implies is the amount of force being applied to the fastener that does not contribute to clamp load, and is essentially resistance to turning that must be overcome to achieve the desired clamp load. Frictional load is affected by the materials involved at the threaded end and at the point where the fasteners head makes contact with the part that the bolt is intended to secure. Different alloys, types of metal or composites have different frictional drag properties. Also the thread diameter, pitch, the amount of male thread/female threads in contact with each other as well as the diameter of the fasteners head that will be touching the part being secured. These all affect surface area and more surface area that two objects make contact over creates more fictional loading assuming all else is equal. This is all important because adjoining surfaces/gaskets are designed to achieve a secure seal and positioning by having a specific amount of clamp load applied, and if or example a torque spec calls for 10 Foot Pounds of torque and 75% of the torque being applied is actually being consumed overcoming Frictional loading then only 25% of that torque is being applied as clamp load. Since that percentage of Frictional load increase in a bell curve as more torque is applied then the percentage contributing towards achieving desired clamp load must diminish at the same time. By luring the threads and spot faced areas the Frictional loading is diminished which means a more accurate measurement of clamp load is given, and it will be more consistent from one fastener to the next. You cannot ever completely eliminate Frictional loading of fasteners, that's just plain physics and in reality you wouldn't want to because while clamp load is what allows gaskets to seal Frictional Load is what keeps the fastener tight and without it that fastenerwould require a positive locking mechanism to remain tight and maintain the required clamp load.
    I know that was a long and boring thing to read for 99% of everyone, but since they most likely bailed way before this point my hope is that the 1% still reading found this to be useful and worth reading.

    • @rydplrs71
      @rydplrs71 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Said nobody ever.

  • @lesliejensen9050
    @lesliejensen9050 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    If you get shocked when tutching the chassis you guys must have a bad grund somwhere or chafed Wire from Killswitch must be going around you guys !
    But keep Up the awsome Work and sweet content guys love IT
    Greetings from Denmark 🇩🇰

    • @bradley3549
      @bradley3549 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      That's normal for a small engine with an inductive pickup ignition system. The coil produces voltage whether the kill switch is in the on or off position. And if you touch the wire and ground yourself you'll feel it. But it's not enough energy to jump the gap since most of it is being shorted directly to the block.

  • @johnkaminski646
    @johnkaminski646 2 ปีที่แล้ว +13

    That o2 sensor is really close.

  • @robertjohnston4554
    @robertjohnston4554 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Thanks for the cotter pin

  • @im_ur_huckleberry8998
    @im_ur_huckleberry8998 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Can't wait to hear that beast run!!!

  • @waynestore67
    @waynestore67 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    The fuel tank is screaming for a Mooneyes sticker! It'll look awesome and add 10 MPH!!

  • @tkskagen
    @tkskagen 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Just an "IDEA" for Issac and John (sorry Charles), but...
    With the Van Build (can't wait to see more content), maybe have a Third Channel for Group and Travel Events/Adventures using the Bus, and call that Channel "Van's and Videos"...
    I know that we have the crew Channel at "Car's and Camera's" and there is "It'll be Fine" with Issac, but as a monthly or bi-weekly series working on the Van and other Roadtrip Events, this would give y'all (more work, but) more content for other Interested Viewers.
    And maybe have a "Ramp Storage Slot" under the rear bumper for loading/unloading that lock into place durring Storage and use for safety!

  • @logangurule5399
    @logangurule5399 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    I think you just need a better ground to the block. I've seen it happen with a lot of other things (not rails) that breaks lights, spark and even one time the blower fan...

  • @bensymington5550
    @bensymington5550 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Awesome video thanks you guys will get it running

  • @markrivera4093
    @markrivera4093 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    goo ole Charles never disappoints

  • @nickmassey9104
    @nickmassey9104 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Maybe try starting it on pump gas with a spray or separate tank .when up to temp ,swop over to methanol .gotta look at a few comments for some great ,safe upgrades .and make John a fire proof cushion to sit against I the rail

  • @EnginesbyAustin
    @EnginesbyAustin 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Make a catch can, putting all oiled air into the engine robs huge power. Run the engine at 32dg timing, methanal is also easier to tune. You also need a minimum of 10:1 compression for the methanol to burn right. Then tune in the boost.

    • @SuperBigdanno
      @SuperBigdanno 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      How does oiled air rob power? 2 stroke engines run just fine on an fuel oil and air mix. May just have to jet accordingly bit I doubt it.

    • @EnginesbyAustin
      @EnginesbyAustin 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@SuperBigdanno we are talking 4 strokes, 2 strokes are meant to run with oil in the fuel, can’t make power in a 2 stroke with out oil cuz it would blow the f**ck up

    • @SuperBigdanno
      @SuperBigdanno 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@EnginesbyAustin you still didnt explain why it would loose power in a 4 stroke. In fact formula 1 cars use the oil in the crank case as extra fuel or at least did so I think that if it robbed power then the formula 1 guys would not practice this.
      I could see it robbing power if it was something like 50% oil bit it should be just a slight mist and shouldnt affect power much if at all.
      I will tell you that the engine will make more power than that stupid early 1970s primary that these guys are using. That thing is rated for about 25hp max. So maybe some reduced power from that oil would be welcome lol

    • @EnginesbyAustin
      @EnginesbyAustin 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@SuperBigdanno see with my methonal gx160 we run a 8 mile race at 8,666 peak rpm and we push 4 oz of oil out into the catch can, that oil contains debris and metal shavings and that would slowly destroy my engine by wearing it down. Plus it’s not a diesel so it won’t burn oil efficiently also taking power away.

    • @SuperBigdanno
      @SuperBigdanno 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@EnginesbyAustin not being rude here but I think you habe serious blow by in your engine that needs to be addressed and or you need to evacuate the crankcase better. You should not have that amount of oil in a catch can in that short of distance I dont think.

  • @oldhillbillybuckkowalski
    @oldhillbillybuckkowalski 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    A word of advice, the use of respiratory protection is highly recommended any time you will have significant exposure to Nitromethane fuel vapors, fumes etc... and even more critical when the exhaust from burnt Nitromethane is present. Sealed eye protection also is a good idea as the exhaust fumes and fuel vapors can not only cause damage to the respiratory system, the central nervous system,kidneys, liver and other internal body parts, they can also cause immediate eye pain and over time damage to the eyes, sometimes permanent can result. I love building and running Nitro engines but between health and safety issues and oil changes after every 1/4 mile pass it can be a pain in the ass.

    • @mr.mullet6881
      @mr.mullet6881 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Yea that shit burns

    • @oldhillbillybuckkowalski
      @oldhillbillybuckkowalski 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@mr.mullet6881 one thing for sure, spending 3 weeks with my lungs feeling like they were on fire and developing Bronchitis that took 2 months to get over, (and lungs on fire doesn't even touch how it felt to cough which at times happened after almost every breath) on top of my eyes feeling like I had been welding without my welders helmet for a couple days after I failed to take precautions and ignored the exposure initially out of determination and excitement over what we were doing got the better of me. It thankfully did not require a smart man to learn that lesson with only a single class.

  • @gixxernut8021
    @gixxernut8021 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    It was all working before so start by only hooking up the accessories you had before in hook all your new gauges and accessories then getting it running then hook them up one by one to see which one is taking your ground away or which one is causing u problems

  • @Cooldad87
    @Cooldad87 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Still so glad you guys are going full send with the drag rail! Now all you need is a body like the funny cars for better aerodynamics! That would be so awesome! Please 🙏 don't forget to keep a fire extinguisher on that thing too .....I just so glad you guys actually listen to us subbers ....I honestly think it's a wiring or ground issue for the spark I would run HOTTER 🔥 spark ⚡️ for those Lightning hoses too! Get electronic ignition then you can open up more possibilities for more performance control I know you guys said yall aren't gonna go EFI but when you guys are able to eventually maj oh man isn't that thing just gonna scream down the track........next is too build a scale Nascar version just glad you guys are finally gonna give that drag rail what it wants and needs invest in a parachute cos I know you guys are gonna be going 80+

  • @PootsGarage
    @PootsGarage 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    excited to see this one run