Really cool to see you pushing out ore regular videos. I think that's awesome. I also found this video really informative. I have never thought about the Assist beam and how it would be different with Mirrorless Cameras to what we had with DSLRs. Very good to know.
Thanks. I'm not sure how long I'm going to be able to keep the pace going, but I'm going to keep trying to push out stuff while keeping the quality as high as possible until I run out of stuff to cover or the topics get complex enough that I have to do more than 10-15 minutes to cover it.
@@PointsInFocus/videos That's awesome, I also would link to your other gear (especially the gear you are talking about) in the description. I noticed a link to your 5D IV but not to the EOS R5.
This is a deal breaker for me trying to upgrade from a 6D for nightlife photography. I have no idea what to do.. I figured a nice used EOS R would be a great upgrade but it literally can't focus even close to my 6D with a flash assist beam.. so here I am in 2024. stuck looking at a 5d mark4..
To be clear, this isn't a Canon specific problem. All mirrorless cameras cannot use IR AF assist beams, regardless of brand. This is due to the inherent incompatibility between needing an IR cut filter over the sensor to keep the images from color shifting red all the time, and that filter blocking the very light that's been historically used to invisibly illuminate subjects for the AF system. The only "fix" is what Canon has already done; built the AF system to work at much lower light levels than any DSLR's system did so that it doesn't need an AF assist beam.
@@PointsInFocus I do some niteclub work, shooting in almost pitch dark environments, where the only light is the odd burst of rays/lights from the dj stage, so I'm shooting people on a 6Dii and YN600ex rt speedlite and mailing focus 99.9% of the time. This video as well as other articles I've read, would make me weary of upgrading to the R6ii which I was hoping to.
@Patrick F, I think your situation is going to require you to do some field testing in the conditions you work in. There are way too many variables in that situation to just try and think through based on the specs alone. On one hand, the R6-2's is capable of focusing in as little as -6.5 Ev, that works out to an exposure of 4s, f/2.8, ISO 12800. And is 3.5 stops darker than what your 6D2 can do best case unassisted. On the other hand, the 6D2 can use the IR AF assist beam. But then a lot depends on the lens too.
Stupid question: is there a way to get an assist beam when using MANUAL focusing? Weird application, but I enjoy night-time macro photography with my Godox speedlite off camera with a 24" diffuser. Gear for this purpose: Canon R5, EF 100/2.8L IS macro, Godox 860 II speedlite, Godox X2T wireless transmitter.
So I don't think that's a stupid question at all, actually it's an interesting idea. Unfortunately, I can't think of a way to trigger the assist light other than with the AF system or activating the self timer (but then it flashes which isn't going to help).
Great video but I am doubtful of the 'facts' presented. The focus distance using IR is different from visible light and old Nikkor lenses had an adjustment position for IR photography. I am doubtful that the phase detect sensor in DSLRS is sensitive to IR because the AF distance would produce OOF images if it focussed using IR?
Let me see if I can address this somewhat concisely. The assertion that the flashes use IR assist beams is based on Canon’s product manuals. For example, on page 46 of the Speedlite EL-1 manual Canon says, “When it is difficult to autofocus on the subject in low-light or when contrast is low during viewfinder shooting, the infrared AF-assist beam built into the flash automatically flashes to help autofocus.” Similar language is found in other flash’s manuals. Of course, it’s entirely possible that the manual is misrepresenting what the flash does, and is calling a red light infrared for some reason. In either event, the “infrared AF assist beam” appears to be very close to visible red light since we can see a red pattern when it’s active. Which means that the wavelength can’t be far from visible red, which means that the focus error due to the wavelength would be negligible anyway. As for the compensation marks on lenses, they are designed for near IR film. In Canon’s lens manual’s they say the marks are set for 800 nm light. 800nm IR is far enough outside the visible range that you can’t see it, which means that the assist beams probably aren’t using that wavelength, and therefore wouldn’t cause the same focus shift. Ultimately there are a couple of possibilities here. One is that Canon isn’t actually using IR at all, which means that their manual is wrong and therefore my explanation is as well. Second, Canon could be using so called “far red” LEDs that operate on the edge of the IR-visible red “cutoff” wavelength (700-730nm typically). This would allow the AF beam to appear brighter to the AF sensor than it does to the human eye (due to the IR component), but being so close to red light wouldn’t materially affect the focus position. (This is what I was assuming to be the case.) That said, it’s also entirely possible that I’m just wrong and that the reason the R5 can’t use the “IR assist beams” is that they don’t work properly for some other reason.
There seem to be some misunderstanding regarding the ability of R5/6 to benefit from the IR focus assist beam. They do. Easy to test in total dark room with AF assist on and off. the builtin IR assist helps a lot.
Neither the R5 or R6 have an IR AF assist light; it's a white LED (well kind of a yellowish one). And while there may be some marginal benefits form an actual IR (actually near IR) LED, but the benefit is minimal and is only a product of imperfect filtering.
How do I activate the Flash's Laser AF? I shoot in very dark parties and only the flash's af laser can focus Note: I'm talking about the Laser Af of the Flash not the Laser Af of the Camerar I have an R6 + 430EXII
Unfortunately, you can't. Canon's mirrorless cameras can't/won't use the IR AF assist beam on any of Canon's flashes that have them. The only options are not to use an assist beam or use the bright LED on the camera (or flash for flashes that have an LED assist beam).
In my Canon R with flash If in af-assist Bean firing I select enable, the flash Wil firing in a rapid burst to focus and focus very well but is inconfortable to subject probably make it Blink eyes. If i select LED AF Assist Beam only, câmera Will flash the red led Beam on câmera. Both situations only work in dark situation
@@PointsInFocus i use the neewer 655c. But if i use the wireless triger both options fire only the led. I gess it only work with some kind of flashes. But makes Sense One during a burst and other the led.
I don't own an Ra, but as far as I know the Ra functions identically to the R in so far as the focus assist beams are concerned. Also, the Ra does have an IR cut filter, however it's performance is tailored to astrophotography uses.
Really cool to see you pushing out ore regular videos. I think that's awesome.
I also found this video really informative. I have never thought about the Assist beam and how it would be different with Mirrorless Cameras to what we had with DSLRs. Very good to know.
Thanks.
I'm not sure how long I'm going to be able to keep the pace going, but I'm going to keep trying to push out stuff while keeping the quality as high as possible until I run out of stuff to cover or the topics get complex enough that I have to do more than 10-15 minutes to cover it.
@@PointsInFocus/videos That's awesome, I also would link to your other gear (especially the gear you are talking about) in the description. I noticed a link to your 5D IV but not to the EOS R5.
This is a deal breaker for me trying to upgrade from a 6D for nightlife photography. I have no idea what to do.. I figured a nice used EOS R would be a great upgrade but it literally can't focus even close to my 6D with a flash assist beam.. so here I am in 2024. stuck looking at a 5d mark4..
Thank you for the video. But I swear to god, if Canon doesnt fix this infrared issue after I spent 8k on bodies Im going to lose my effing mind.
To be clear, this isn't a Canon specific problem. All mirrorless cameras cannot use IR AF assist beams, regardless of brand. This is due to the inherent incompatibility between needing an IR cut filter over the sensor to keep the images from color shifting red all the time, and that filter blocking the very light that's been historically used to invisibly illuminate subjects for the AF system.
The only "fix" is what Canon has already done; built the AF system to work at much lower light levels than any DSLR's system did so that it doesn't need an AF assist beam.
@@PointsInFocus I do some niteclub work, shooting in almost pitch dark environments, where the only light is the odd burst of rays/lights from the dj stage, so I'm shooting people on a 6Dii and YN600ex rt speedlite and mailing focus 99.9% of the time. This video as well as other articles I've read, would make me weary of upgrading to the R6ii which I was hoping to.
@Patrick F, I think your situation is going to require you to do some field testing in the conditions you work in. There are way too many variables in that situation to just try and think through based on the specs alone.
On one hand, the R6-2's is capable of focusing in as little as -6.5 Ev, that works out to an exposure of 4s, f/2.8, ISO 12800. And is 3.5 stops darker than what your 6D2 can do best case unassisted. On the other hand, the 6D2 can use the IR AF assist beam. But then a lot depends on the lens too.
@@PointsInFocus ok thanks for replying. appreciate it.
Stupid question: is there a way to get an assist beam when using MANUAL focusing? Weird application, but I enjoy night-time macro photography with my Godox speedlite off camera with a 24" diffuser. Gear for this purpose: Canon R5, EF 100/2.8L IS macro, Godox 860 II speedlite, Godox X2T wireless transmitter.
So I don't think that's a stupid question at all, actually it's an interesting idea. Unfortunately, I can't think of a way to trigger the assist light other than with the AF system or activating the self timer (but then it flashes which isn't going to help).
Great video but I am doubtful of the 'facts' presented. The focus distance using IR is different from visible light and old Nikkor lenses had an adjustment position for IR photography. I am doubtful that the phase detect sensor in DSLRS is sensitive to IR because the AF distance would produce OOF images if it focussed using IR?
Let me see if I can address this somewhat concisely.
The assertion that the flashes use IR assist beams is based on Canon’s product manuals. For example, on page 46 of the Speedlite EL-1 manual Canon says, “When it is difficult to autofocus on the subject in low-light or when contrast is low during viewfinder shooting, the infrared AF-assist beam built into the flash automatically flashes to help autofocus.” Similar language is found in other flash’s manuals.
Of course, it’s entirely possible that the manual is misrepresenting what the flash does, and is calling a red light infrared for some reason.
In either event, the “infrared AF assist beam” appears to be very close to visible red light since we can see a red pattern when it’s active. Which means that the wavelength can’t be far from visible red, which means that the focus error due to the wavelength would be negligible anyway.
As for the compensation marks on lenses, they are designed for near IR film. In Canon’s lens manual’s they say the marks are set for 800 nm light. 800nm IR is far enough outside the visible range that you can’t see it, which means that the assist beams probably aren’t using that wavelength, and therefore wouldn’t cause the same focus shift.
Ultimately there are a couple of possibilities here.
One is that Canon isn’t actually using IR at all, which means that their manual is wrong and therefore my explanation is as well.
Second, Canon could be using so called “far red” LEDs that operate on the edge of the IR-visible red “cutoff” wavelength (700-730nm typically). This would allow the AF beam to appear brighter to the AF sensor than it does to the human eye (due to the IR component), but being so close to red light wouldn’t materially affect the focus position. (This is what I was assuming to be the case.)
That said, it’s also entirely possible that I’m just wrong and that the reason the R5 can’t use the “IR assist beams” is that they don’t work properly for some other reason.
There seem to be some misunderstanding regarding the ability of R5/6 to benefit from the IR focus assist beam. They do. Easy to test in total dark room with AF assist on and off. the builtin IR assist helps a lot.
Neither the R5 or R6 have an IR AF assist light; it's a white LED (well kind of a yellowish one).
And while there may be some marginal benefits form an actual IR (actually near IR) LED, but the benefit is minimal and is only a product of imperfect filtering.
How do I activate the Flash's Laser AF?
I shoot in very dark parties and only the flash's af laser can focus
Note: I'm talking about the Laser Af of the Flash not the Laser Af of the Camerar
I have an R6 + 430EXII
Unfortunately, you can't. Canon's mirrorless cameras can't/won't use the IR AF assist beam on any of Canon's flashes that have them. The only options are not to use an assist beam or use the bright LED on the camera (or flash for flashes that have an LED assist beam).
In my Canon R with flash
If in af-assist Bean firing
I select enable, the flash Wil firing in a rapid burst to focus and focus very well but is inconfortable to subject probably make it Blink eyes.
If i select LED AF Assist Beam only, câmera Will flash the red led Beam on câmera.
Both situations only work in dark situation
Just for completeness, which flash are you using?
@@PointsInFocus i use the neewer 655c. But if i use the wireless triger both options fire only the led. I gess it only work with some kind of flashes.
But makes Sense One during a burst and other the led.
excellent!!! thank you!
So does the Ra use an IR beam, because that seems like it would work awesome as it has no IR filter....
I don't own an Ra, but as far as I know the Ra functions identically to the R in so far as the focus assist beams are concerned.
Also, the Ra does have an IR cut filter, however it's performance is tailored to astrophotography uses.