Thank you for this, Jason. This is by far the best presentation I've seen on these different shutter modes. I still can't say that I completely understand why electronic first-curtain affects bokeh but your samples really helped illustrate the issue and conditions under which they would occur. Excellent!
Great explanation, thanks. FYI, the RF 600 f/11 & 800 f/11 manual suggests electronic 1st curtain. I was using mechanical (with no problems) but, as I don't normally shoot wide open at fast shutter speeds, electronic 1st curtain will now be my "normal" setting.
Hi! Thanks for sharing this! I want to shoot silent (electronic) but my electronic shutter is disabled. The other two are enabled. How do I enable it please?
It sounds like the electronic shutter is disabled because it's conflicting with some other setting you've enabled (for example, anti flicker shooting or dual pixel raw). Usually if you try to select it, the camera will pop up an error message that tells you what other setting is preventing it from working (at least that's what happens most of the time).
@@PointsInFocus OMG! Yes, the Anti-flicker shoot. was enabled on my r6. I disabled it and that solved the problem, thank you so so much!!! The thing is, I have been searching the web for a solution but I can't get a direct answer to this problem. Thank God I found your video! As a new user of the r6, it can be real overwhelming. One needs much experience with it. My main issue is the overheating at 4k. I shoot cooking videos and it just doesn't work for me. Food/cooking can not wait and so it sucks. Any suggestions on what cam shoots 4k without overheating maybe? Anyway, thank you so much again man! Really helpful!!! ❤❤❤
I kind of hate making recommendations like this. I'm kind of specialized in what gear I use and I'm not a big enough photographer or TH-camr to get free cameras thrown at me to test, so playing with other platforms isn't something I can really do. So I'm going to confine this to Canon gear because that's what I have the most experience with. That said, I've read both good and bad things about Nikon and Sony cameras when it comes to overheating. Of course, the problem here is that a lot depends on where you're shooting (temp, is the camera in direct sun, etc.). Reliable cameras can overheat and unreliable ones might not in the right circumstances. The R5 can shoot 4k30 standard quality without a thermal limit (but it has the same 30-minute clip limit as the R6). With the latest firmware (and the auto power off temp set to high) in my testing at 78°F it could shoot 4k30 HQ (down-sampled from 8K) for at least 2 hours (and probably a lot more). If you can't afford to have the camera down at all, the R5C or any of Canon's video or cinema cameras are what you want. The cinema cameras (including the R5C) all have active cooling so they can shoot all day in the sun, and neither overheat nor compromise the image quality due to heat. One other potential option might be the new R7. But the specs indicate that it could run into thermal problems in 4K fine quality mode, but they don't say anything specific about estimated record times. It's also a crop format camera. But honestly, when it comes to video I don't find the format is as important as it is in still photography. Another solution would be to get an Atomos Ninja V recorder/monitor and not record in the camera. The R6 can output clean 4K video on the HDMI port, and when the Ninja V is doing the recording the camera shouldn't overheat at all, or at least not for several hours. Moreover, using the Ninja recorder, you can get around the 30-minute clip limit if that's a problem for you. It's not a perfect solution though, and there are some limitations, but it might be worth looking into since you can get a Ninja V for around $500.
@@PointsInFocus Wow man, thanks very much for all this info. You really know your stuff. I will definitely look into R5C, or simply downgrade the recording to full HD if I need to shoot for an extended period. Cheers from Germany!
Thanks a very, very useful episode! I finally understood the difference between the three different types of shots. I think that considering my needs I will use the electronic shutter on the 1st curtain. Great👍👍
EXCELLENT! As a wildlife photographer with spooky animals close, I prefer silent shutter....electronic shutter, except when I am worried about rolling shutter potential problem with fast bird in flight photos.
Congratulations on all your videos. They are really educational. Thanks to this video I have understood the problems and advantages of each shutter mode. There you have my like.
Thanks for all the informative details. I think there is another limitation on using the full electronic shutter; this mode is not available if the user selected to correct the lens aberration in camera. Then the function is greyed out.
Jason, as usual, good info. Yeah, that electronic shutter speed limited to 1/2 second is a real problem when I'm doing focus stacking or stacked astrophotography. It would be nice if it could be capable of up to 5 seconds. I suppose that the longer shutter speed would cost another bit of resolution. Oh well, I guess that I'll have to wait for the R5 MkII!
I usually use efc, mainly to take less than 20 fps. But I noticed that since I started using efc, a single shot may be blurry. Sometimes the first shot of a burst is blurry, the rest is fine. Weird. I don't recall having this issue when I used ES. The blurriness looks like it is a IBIS issue, but I am not sure. EDIT: the first shot is blurry with the RF 100-500 attached and when using EFCS. Happens ALWAYS.
You should report it to Canon so they can do a firmware update. I don’t use that specific lens but I have experienced similar issues with photos slightly blurry and I suspect it’s the lens IS or maybe the combo of that and IBIS. It’s a lot that goes on in the camera and between it and the lens before we expose one photo. I can live with some mishaps. It still much better with mirrorless than DSLR in terms of getting more sharp photos . Mirrorless has 12 pin connections to RF lenses so I think or hope there is room for improvements within this technology.
Yes, it's 14-bit. The only exception to that is when you have the camera set to the continuous H+ drive mode, in that case even with the Mech and FEC shutters, the ADCs are read at 13-bit instead.
Unfortunately, not in the camera. It is stored in the metadata for the image, so it can be reviewed later. Exiftool can display it, but I haven't found an option for it in Lightroom yet.
I tend to shoot almost everything in first curtain electronic. This minimizes shutter vibration and at the apertures, at least that I tend to shoot landscapes at (slower than f/4 typically), there aren't any problems with bokeh rendering.
Hi I know I’m really late to this video but I have a r10 and the rf 100-400 I use for wildlife, should I be using mechanical or electronic first curtain. Shutter speed is usual 1/1250
I always recommend using the first curtain electronic shutter unless you're shooting with a very fast lens (f/2 or faster) and see problems with the bokeh.
Excellent vid...right to the point and great detail on all options. I recently shot my first outdoor sporting event (Track) using Electronic Shutter at 2000 to 4000 at f/3.5 to f/4.0...great results! No images issues. Question, when using Electronic shutter, does that count against your overall shutter count on the camera?
The mechanical shutter is the part that has a “lifetime”. In the case of the R5 it’s 500,000 actuations. Since the electronic shutter doesn’t actuate the mechanical shutter at all, it doesn’t count towards the mechanical shutter’s life expectancy.
Mechanical - clicks twice for each exposure (shutter cycles twice) Electronic First Curtain - Clicks once per exposure (shutter cycles only once at the end of the exposure) Electronic - doesn't make any sound at all.
@@PointsInFocus Yep. Thanks. I guess to me this would be in the first 10s of the video as some quiet events the electric shitter needs using. This same events that have bad led light that strobe to the max ! I shot on a film set at the weekend and went to electric for quiet but do feel the images had a bit of jelly.. I did some 1/60th 50mm portraits and could have switched back to curtain - lesson learned. The jelly is OK if quiet is a priority but for me I can see jello even in 'static' subjects so must test or avoid.
To me, the electronic shutter on the R5 is so much of a mixed bag that I don't really use it, or really recommend using it. It's a reasonable, not very fast rolling shutter, you'll get the jello effect, as you observed, with anything that moves in the frame. You'll also have problems with flashing lights. And shooting with it costs as much as 2 stops of dynamic range. To be honest, if you're shooting regularly where you need the electronic shutter, the R3 is a much better camera. It's rolling shutter is significantly faster (though I haven't tested it personally).
@@PointsInFocus Aha.. now we get somewhere useful.. if you neeed to be quiet and good.. consider an R3 .. the R3 is something I have not really considered because the headline specs are not worth it.. but maybe the 'real' specs are :)
The R3 uses the a similar stacked sensor architecture to the Nikon Z9. So it gets really fast rolling shutter reads (it should be basically mechanical shutter fast). The other side effect of that, which isn't going to help you on a film set, is that you can also use the flash when in electronic shutter mode. It also supports more continuous frame rates options than just 20 FPS none in electronic mode too.
You'd really have to test that, but my first instinct would likely be not to. The Achilles heel of the R5's electronic shutter is the rolling shutter speed. If you were shooting with an R3, I'd say go full electronic; possibility even all the time. On the R5, depending on how things move and how well you track things you'll likely end up with distorted images (not a problem if you can keep the subject still in the frame as you track them, but problematic if the subject moves while the rolling shutter is moving across the frame).
No, because it's not a rolling shutter. The EFC is basically a reset signal sent to the pixels, that happens globally - or near enough so that it's not any different from a mechanical shutter opening. The exposure still ends with a mechanical shutter closing which is also effectively a global change.
1/100th should probably be fine. You really only run into problems when faster than 1/1000th, and even then the problem is that OOF highlights render kind of oblong instead of circular. Unfortunately, I don't have an f/1.2 lens yet, so I can't say for sure. As much as I'd like a 50/1.2L, it's just not that high on my list of priorities.
Hi Jason! Had a question regarding to the electronic 1st curtain shutter mode. Is it okay to use this shutter mode with the 28-70 f/2 RF lenses? Thanks!
If your shutter speed is lower than 1/2000 then it is. If you're shutter speeds end up faster than 1/2000 then you can start to experience non-uniform bokeh. Though it's most obvious/problematic with point light sources. Large uniformly bright areas aren't really a problem. Practically speaking, my 28-70/2L lives on my R5, and my R5 is always set to the electronic first curtain shutter. In a year of shooting with the lens, I don't think I've seen an image that had a problem. That said, I also don't think I have any instances where I was shooting in bright enough conditions at f/2 that I needed 1/2000 or faster at ISO 100. Hope that helps.
@@PointsInFocus Thank you for replying back! Just wanted some clarification if you are shooting at F/2 with the EFC you can't exceed pass 1/2000 shutter speed and ISO 100? Or the does it entirely depend on the lighting situation and environment? Thanks!
The problem only depends on the shutter speed, nothing else. Whether it's noticeable or not depends entirely on the quality of the bokeh; point sources are noticeably problematic, large areas aren't. I mentioned ISO 100 because as long as I have enough shutter speed, I prefer to lower the ISO than use a higher shutter speed. That is, I'd rather shoot at 1/2000 f/2 ISO 100 instead of 1/8000 f/2 ISO 400 - assuming I didn't need the faster shutter speed. In any event, those exposure settings are equivalent to EV 13, or shooting at mid day on a heavily overcast day. Which is what I was getting at about not shooting at f/2 in bright enough situations. I don't usually shoot in those kinds of conditions at f/2. Sorry if that was confusing.
Hi, I have canon R6 and a Godox TT 685c flash, I can’t find where to program the 2nd. Curtain shutter, can I do this on this flash with R6 ? I want to take photos in low light. Is this option on my camera or on my flash ? Do I have to do this in mechanical or electronic mode, my R6 only has the option of 1st curtain sinc. Can you tell me how to do this ? Thx.
First, check to make sure that you're flash is running the latest firmware (v3.4 according to Godox's site). Second, you should be able to put that flash into 2nd curtain sync by pressing the sync button on the flash until it displays the second curtain sync icon on the flash (3 arrows with the right most darkened). (see page 50 in the manual) If this doesn't work, then it's likely that the flash is not completely compatible with the R6, and you'll need to contact Godox to see if they have any plans on updating the firmware to support that.
There is an upper limit to shutter actuations, on the R5 I think it’s 300000. Does that mean that electronic shutter doesn’t contribute to this count? I do know this figure can be rubbery, could be say 250K to 350K. I read that doing time lapse on a mirror DSLR causes mirror-slap in a short time but I think time lapse on an R5 is a variation of movie mode.
Canon says the MTBF for the R5's shutter (and R3 and R6) at 500,000 actuations. You're correct that this is a fuzzy-number, so it could be more or less and we don't know the actual range. This is for total actuations, not just actuations taking pictures. So every power cycle, if you have the shutter set to close on power down, adds one to the count. Shooting with the mechanical shutter counts for 2 actuations every exposure (one to blank the sensor and one to end the exposure). Images with the first curtain electronic shutter add 1 cycle to the count (when the exposure ends). Anything that uses the electronic shutter doesn't cycle the mechanical shutter at all, and so adds nothing to the count. This includes shooting stills in full electronic mode, shooting movies, and shooting time lapse movies, but not shooting time lapse stills using an intervalometer (unless the shutter mode is set to electronic).
@@PointsInFocus Thank you for the clarification. Does Eos Utility show the number of actuations? I remember you had to run a 3rd party exe program on your PC with camera connected to find out the number of shutter actuations. If you were selling the camera you were expected to show how many times the shutter moved, like the odometer on your car.
On Canon cameras, second curtain sync is controlled by the flash, not the camera's shutter modes. Depending on the flash you're using, you can either enable it though a button on the flash itself, or though the "External Speedlite Control" menu on the Shoot 2 menu page.
Useful and interesting. Thank you. Now, what are the real, tangible impacts of 12, 13, and 14 bit raw files? I need demonstrations here, unfortunately. At least say what you think they are. :)
I have a video coming Monday that looks more at the dynamic range situation. It's not a practical demonstration, but it is a look at the measured levels/output though. I didn't mention it in this video since hadn't planned on shooting it when I recorded this. I'd like to do a practical test/demo too, but I'm not quite sure how to do that yet either. I don't see any value in just shooting a test chart for several reasons. The biggest of which is that just shooting a test chart replicates the "numbers" that have already been measured by sites the Photons to Photos, and doesn't really tell us anything about the practical application of that in a real scene. That latter part is the tricky bit, as it's one thing to know how much DR you have in any given mode, but it's something completely different to understand when that becomes a real problem in your photography. The other problem is that as things currently stand, I just don't have any images to use for it - I have a reasonable sample of stuff shot with the electronic shutter, but even when it's dark planes (USN Blue Angels) against bright white clouds, the image has less dynamic range than the camera provides even in 12-bit mode (there's detail in the shadows, and no clipping in the clouds).
I don't actually know what the bit depth of the R10's electronic shutter is, in fact, I don't think I've seen anything anywhere that says anything about it being any different from the other shutter modes. Which makes some sense, the R10 has a 24 MP sensor compared to the R5's 45MP sensor. And the primary reason for reducing the bit depth on the R5 in electronic shutter mode is to reduce the amount of data that has to be processed at 20 FPS. 20 FPS * 45 MP = 900 MP/s versus 23 FPS * 24 MP is only 552 MP/s. Moreover, while the settings and general details discussed in these videos apply to most if not all of Canon's cameras, specific details, such as the bit depth of the electronic shutter, in this case are specific to the R5.
My R6 - when using elec 1st curtain - quite often does not trigger for 1-2 sec after taking a couple of shots in a fast row (maybe 4-6). Is there something wrong with my R6 or is this because of the shutter mode? Any help would be appreciated 🙏
That definitely doesn't sound right. Couple of questions: What firmware version are you running? How readily does this happen? One in a while, or is it easily reproducible? Is this is One Shot or Servo AF? One shot AF, by default, will prevent the shutter from releasing until focus is achieved. Do you have digital lens optimizer set to high? This will reduce the buffer space and could cause shooting to pause while it processes and writes out images.
@@PointsInFocus 1.5.1, easily reproduceable, servo af, lens optimizer on standard (also occurs when lens optimizer is turned off). tried different sd cards, reseted my camera, what is strange to me that I have no problems when shooting in burst modes
So I just tried to reproduce what you're describing on my R5. I know, different camera, but they seem to share a lot of the underlying software so... Anyway, I can kind of reproduce something, but I'm not sure it's what you're seeing. So if I have the camera set to single drive mode (I don't think the AF settings matter, but I was in servo, single point, and back button focusing), and rapidly press the shutter release, I could get a dozen or so frames before the camera would kind of stop responding to the shutter button. If I completely let off the shutter button it would immediately respond the next time I pressed the button. What seemed to be the case on my camera though, is that it was tied to how far I was releasing the shutter button. If I didn't release the button far enough, the camera wouldn't fire the next frame. If I completely released the button I had no problems, but going between what felt like full and half press maybe wasn't far enough.
@@PointsInFocus Thank you so much! Yes, this is pretty close to my current problem. When I shoot family photos and I therefore want to keep one subject in focus I usually leave my shutter button pressed. And after taking some pictures I have to completely let go of the shutter button to be able to take more pictures. I have had this camera for about a year and this problem only recently seemed to show itself.
Okay so it sounds like I reproduced the same problem you're having, but on the R5. Given that, I don't think it's a problem specific to your camera. It's possible that Canon changed how they detect the shutter release state in the 1.5 firmware, but I don't see why they would. I'm tempted to say that you might want to contact Canon and see what they say. I'm not sure it'll help, since I don't think your camera is broken either, and I can see that turning into a send in your camera thing, which is just a hassle, since it's unlikely that it's actually broken.
What camera and flash are you using? As things currently stand the only Canon mirrorless camera that supports flash photography while using the electronic shutter is the EOS R3.
Informative video but ultimately I wasted 12 minutes hoping to find out how to setup rear curtain sync and this was not covered here. The searching continues, unless you could comment the way to set it up.
Rear curtain sync is set on the flash (or through the Shoot2, External Speedlite Control menu for compatible flashes). Press the sync button until you see the rear curtain sync icon (3 triangles in a horizontal line with the right most filled in). If you're not using a compatible TTL capable flash or wireless system, you won't be able to do rear curtain sync.
To elaborate on Points in Focus reply, here's what I found that works with my R5 and Godox AD200 and Godox XPro trigger for Canon.. On the XPro trigger, push Function Button 2 / 'SYNCH' twice. The first push shows the HSS icon in the upper corner of the XPro LCD panel. The second push shows the Rear Curtain Synch icon (3 triangles a horizontal row with triangle on the furtherest right filled in). An alternative, on the AD200 unit, you can set the flash delay using C.Fn F4 from 0.1 to 30 sec delay
Thank you for this, Jason. This is by far the best presentation I've seen on these different shutter modes. I still can't say that I completely understand why electronic first-curtain affects bokeh but your samples really helped illustrate the issue and conditions under which they would occur. Excellent!
Best explanation I’ve ever seen of this. And stays right on the subject without extraneous comments. Fantastic.
Best comprehensive explanation of shutter modes I've seen. Thank you so much! :)
Best youtube channel for the eos r5 by far 💚
Great explanation, thanks. FYI, the RF 600 f/11 & 800 f/11 manual suggests electronic 1st curtain. I was using mechanical (with no problems) but, as I don't normally shoot wide open at fast shutter speeds, electronic 1st curtain will now be my "normal" setting.
The manual no one reads lol. Thanks for the summary, I probably out to move into 1st curtain mode now I have the long 600/11 to use
Excellent video. The R5 manual falls far short of guiding an amateur like me which option to select!
Not only amateurs 😂
Hi! Thanks for sharing this! I want to shoot silent (electronic) but my electronic shutter is disabled. The other two are enabled. How do I enable it please?
It sounds like the electronic shutter is disabled because it's conflicting with some other setting you've enabled (for example, anti flicker shooting or dual pixel raw). Usually if you try to select it, the camera will pop up an error message that tells you what other setting is preventing it from working (at least that's what happens most of the time).
@@PointsInFocus OMG! Yes, the Anti-flicker shoot. was enabled on my r6. I disabled it and that solved the problem, thank you so so much!!! The thing is, I have been searching the web for a solution but I can't get a direct answer to this problem. Thank God I found your video! As a new user of the r6, it can be real overwhelming. One needs much experience with it. My main issue is the overheating at 4k. I shoot cooking videos and it just doesn't work for me. Food/cooking can not wait and so it sucks. Any suggestions on what cam shoots 4k without overheating maybe? Anyway, thank you so much again man! Really helpful!!! ❤❤❤
I kind of hate making recommendations like this. I'm kind of specialized in what gear I use and I'm not a big enough photographer or TH-camr to get free cameras thrown at me to test, so playing with other platforms isn't something I can really do.
So I'm going to confine this to Canon gear because that's what I have the most experience with. That said, I've read both good and bad things about Nikon and Sony cameras when it comes to overheating. Of course, the problem here is that a lot depends on where you're shooting (temp, is the camera in direct sun, etc.). Reliable cameras can overheat and unreliable ones might not in the right circumstances.
The R5 can shoot 4k30 standard quality without a thermal limit (but it has the same 30-minute clip limit as the R6). With the latest firmware (and the auto power off temp set to high) in my testing at 78°F it could shoot 4k30 HQ (down-sampled from 8K) for at least 2 hours (and probably a lot more).
If you can't afford to have the camera down at all, the R5C or any of Canon's video or cinema cameras are what you want. The cinema cameras (including the R5C) all have active cooling so they can shoot all day in the sun, and neither overheat nor compromise the image quality due to heat.
One other potential option might be the new R7. But the specs indicate that it could run into thermal problems in 4K fine quality mode, but they don't say anything specific about estimated record times. It's also a crop format camera. But honestly, when it comes to video I don't find the format is as important as it is in still photography.
Another solution would be to get an Atomos Ninja V recorder/monitor and not record in the camera. The R6 can output clean 4K video on the HDMI port, and when the Ninja V is doing the recording the camera shouldn't overheat at all, or at least not for several hours. Moreover, using the Ninja recorder, you can get around the 30-minute clip limit if that's a problem for you. It's not a perfect solution though, and there are some limitations, but it might be worth looking into since you can get a Ninja V for around $500.
@@PointsInFocus Wow man, thanks very much for all this info. You really know your stuff. I will definitely look into R5C, or simply downgrade the recording to full HD if I need to shoot for an extended period. Cheers from Germany!
Thanks a very, very useful episode!
I finally understood the difference between the three different types of shots. I think that considering my needs I will use the electronic shutter on the 1st curtain.
Great👍👍
I will try Electronic First Curtain Shutter with my flash. Thanks for the video.
Thank you! Answered every question about this mode..
Excellent - "Just the facts, ma'am" information.
It would not break your face to smile, just to let us know that you're not a robot...
EXCELLENT! As a wildlife photographer with spooky animals close, I prefer silent shutter....electronic shutter, except when I am worried about rolling shutter potential problem with fast bird in flight photos.
Congratulations on all your videos. They are really educational. Thanks to this video I have understood the problems and advantages of each shutter mode. There you have my like.
Glad you found them useful. Thanks for the watch and the like.
Thanks for all the informative details. I think there is another limitation on using the full electronic shutter; this mode is not available if the user selected to correct the lens aberration in camera. Then the function is greyed out.
The only lens aberration correction that is incompatible with the electronic shutter is Digital Lens Optimizer when set to the High setting.
@@PointsInFocus Thanks a lot; I was not aware of that single characteristic!
Jason, as usual, good info. Yeah, that electronic shutter speed limited to 1/2 second is a real problem when I'm doing focus stacking or stacked astrophotography. It would be nice if it could be capable of up to 5 seconds. I suppose that the longer shutter speed would cost another bit of resolution. Oh well, I guess that I'll have to wait for the R5 MkII!
Great vid - best shutter modes vid I have seen yet
Excellent video, thanks for reading and interpreting the manual for us!
Thank you for the video. There was several bits of info that I did not know such as using Hi Speed+ limits the Bit Quality to 13 Bit.
Glad it was helpful!
Thank u that was really helpful.. im still finding it hard to do a rear curtain flash sycn technique, can u help me how to do it
Thank you for making it easy to understand.
I usually use efc, mainly to take less than 20 fps. But I noticed that since I started using efc, a single shot may be blurry. Sometimes the first shot of a burst is blurry, the rest is fine. Weird. I don't recall having this issue when I used ES. The blurriness looks like it is a IBIS issue, but I am not sure.
EDIT: the first shot is blurry with the RF 100-500 attached and when using EFCS. Happens ALWAYS.
You should report it to Canon so they can do a firmware update.
I don’t use that specific lens but I have experienced similar issues with photos slightly blurry and I suspect it’s the lens IS or maybe the combo of that and IBIS. It’s a lot that goes on in the camera and between it and the lens before we expose one photo. I can live with some mishaps. It still much better with mirrorless than DSLR in terms of getting more sharp photos . Mirrorless has 12 pin connections to RF lenses so I think or hope there is room for improvements within this technology.
What's the bit depth for mechanical & electronic first curtain? Both gives 14 bit?
Yes, it's 14-bit.
The only exception to that is when you have the camera set to the continuous H+ drive mode, in that case even with the Mech and FEC shutters, the ADCs are read at 13-bit instead.
@@PointsInFocus Oh informative, thanks for the quick reply.
Is there a way to see which shutter mode you used when reviewing your pictures afterwards? I can't find any info on this.
Unfortunately, not in the camera. It is stored in the metadata for the image, so it can be reviewed later. Exiftool can display it, but I haven't found an option for it in Lightroom yet.
Thank you for this, Jason. as a landscape photographer which of those modes is the most appropriate? thanks
I tend to shoot almost everything in first curtain electronic. This minimizes shutter vibration and at the apertures, at least that I tend to shoot landscapes at (slower than f/4 typically), there aren't any problems with bokeh rendering.
I take it there is no way to reduce the frames per second with a setting when using the electronic shutter?
Frustratingly, no there isn't.
Ottima recensione, grazie!
Hi I know I’m really late to this video but I have a r10 and the rf 100-400 I use for wildlife, should I be using mechanical or electronic first curtain. Shutter speed is usual 1/1250
I always recommend using the first curtain electronic shutter unless you're shooting with a very fast lens (f/2 or faster) and see problems with the bokeh.
Excellent vid...right to the point and great detail on all options. I recently shot my first outdoor sporting event (Track) using Electronic Shutter at 2000 to 4000 at f/3.5 to f/4.0...great results! No images issues. Question, when using Electronic shutter, does that count against your overall shutter count on the camera?
The mechanical shutter is the part that has a “lifetime”. In the case of the R5 it’s 500,000 actuations. Since the electronic shutter doesn’t actuate the mechanical shutter at all, it doesn’t count towards the mechanical shutter’s life expectancy.
@@PointsInFocus The R6 is at 300k, glad I can keep that shutter low with Electronic when I can.
which makes mode a clicky sound and how can you avoid that if you need to.
Mechanical - clicks twice for each exposure (shutter cycles twice)
Electronic First Curtain - Clicks once per exposure (shutter cycles only once at the end of the exposure)
Electronic - doesn't make any sound at all.
@@PointsInFocus Yep. Thanks. I guess to me this would be in the first 10s of the video as some quiet events the electric shitter needs using. This same events that have bad led light that strobe to the max ! I shot on a film set at the weekend and went to electric for quiet but do feel the images had a bit of jelly.. I did some 1/60th 50mm portraits and could have switched back to curtain - lesson learned. The jelly is OK if quiet is a priority but for me I can see jello even in 'static' subjects so must test or avoid.
To me, the electronic shutter on the R5 is so much of a mixed bag that I don't really use it, or really recommend using it.
It's a reasonable, not very fast rolling shutter, you'll get the jello effect, as you observed, with anything that moves in the frame. You'll also have problems with flashing lights. And shooting with it costs as much as 2 stops of dynamic range. To be honest, if you're shooting regularly where you need the electronic shutter, the R3 is a much better camera. It's rolling shutter is significantly faster (though I haven't tested it personally).
@@PointsInFocus Aha.. now we get somewhere useful.. if you neeed to be quiet and good.. consider an R3 .. the R3 is something I have not really considered because the headline specs are not worth it.. but maybe the 'real' specs are :)
The R3 uses the a similar stacked sensor architecture to the Nikon Z9. So it gets really fast rolling shutter reads (it should be basically mechanical shutter fast). The other side effect of that, which isn't going to help you on a film set, is that you can also use the flash when in electronic shutter mode.
It also supports more continuous frame rates options than just 20 FPS none in electronic mode too.
Should i go full electronic on dirtbik racing? from 1/500 to 1/2500 ??? i always did mechanical with non rf lenses but could be slow sometimes
You'd really have to test that, but my first instinct would likely be not to.
The Achilles heel of the R5's electronic shutter is the rolling shutter speed. If you were shooting with an R3, I'd say go full electronic; possibility even all the time. On the R5, depending on how things move and how well you track things you'll likely end up with distorted images (not a problem if you can keep the subject still in the frame as you track them, but problematic if the subject moves while the rolling shutter is moving across the frame).
I learned something today. Thanks. I haven't investigated FCES much yet. Do you get LED banding which is my nemesis!
No, because it's not a rolling shutter. The EFC is basically a reset signal sent to the pixels, that happens globally - or near enough so that it's not any different from a mechanical shutter opening. The exposure still ends with a mechanical shutter closing which is also effectively a global change.
@@PointsInFocus I'll be trying this out in boxing and music gig photography then where LED lights are a real pest!
Great video, thanks for the info.
What do you think about slow (1/100) wide open (f/1.2)? Need to be mechanical or is 1st ok?
1/100th should probably be fine. You really only run into problems when faster than 1/1000th, and even then the problem is that OOF highlights render kind of oblong instead of circular.
Unfortunately, I don't have an f/1.2 lens yet, so I can't say for sure. As much as I'd like a 50/1.2L, it's just not that high on my list of priorities.
You will probably get some shutter shock blur with those settings in mechanical. I recommend first curtain electronic
Extraordinarily useful! Didn't expect to get as much as I got. Thank you, good sir. #NowSubscribed.
Hi Jason! Had a question regarding to the electronic 1st curtain shutter mode. Is it okay to use this shutter mode with the 28-70 f/2 RF lenses? Thanks!
If your shutter speed is lower than 1/2000 then it is. If you're shutter speeds end up faster than 1/2000 then you can start to experience non-uniform bokeh. Though it's most obvious/problematic with point light sources. Large uniformly bright areas aren't really a problem.
Practically speaking, my 28-70/2L lives on my R5, and my R5 is always set to the electronic first curtain shutter. In a year of shooting with the lens, I don't think I've seen an image that had a problem. That said, I also don't think I have any instances where I was shooting in bright enough conditions at f/2 that I needed 1/2000 or faster at ISO 100.
Hope that helps.
@@PointsInFocus Thank you for replying back! Just wanted some clarification if you are shooting at F/2 with the EFC you can't exceed pass 1/2000 shutter speed and ISO 100? Or the does it entirely depend on the lighting situation and environment? Thanks!
The problem only depends on the shutter speed, nothing else. Whether it's noticeable or not depends entirely on the quality of the bokeh; point sources are noticeably problematic, large areas aren't.
I mentioned ISO 100 because as long as I have enough shutter speed, I prefer to lower the ISO than use a higher shutter speed. That is, I'd rather shoot at 1/2000 f/2 ISO 100 instead of 1/8000 f/2 ISO 400 - assuming I didn't need the faster shutter speed. In any event, those exposure settings are equivalent to EV 13, or shooting at mid day on a heavily overcast day. Which is what I was getting at about not shooting at f/2 in bright enough situations. I don't usually shoot in those kinds of conditions at f/2. Sorry if that was confusing.
Hi, I have canon R6 and a Godox TT 685c flash, I can’t find where to program the 2nd. Curtain shutter, can I do this on this flash with R6 ? I want to take photos in low light. Is this option on my camera or on my flash ? Do I have to do this in mechanical or electronic mode, my R6 only has the option of 1st curtain sinc. Can you tell me how to do this ? Thx.
First, check to make sure that you're flash is running the latest firmware (v3.4 according to Godox's site).
Second, you should be able to put that flash into 2nd curtain sync by pressing the sync button on the flash until it displays the second curtain sync icon on the flash (3 arrows with the right most darkened). (see page 50 in the manual)
If this doesn't work, then it's likely that the flash is not completely compatible with the R6, and you'll need to contact Godox to see if they have any plans on updating the firmware to support that.
Thank you...right to the point, I wish more people did this.
I finally get it now. Thank you 🙏
There is an upper limit to shutter actuations, on the R5 I think it’s 300000. Does that mean that electronic shutter doesn’t contribute to this count?
I do know this figure can be rubbery, could be say 250K to 350K.
I read that doing time lapse on a mirror DSLR causes mirror-slap in a short time but I think time lapse on an R5 is a variation of movie mode.
Canon says the MTBF for the R5's shutter (and R3 and R6) at 500,000 actuations. You're correct that this is a fuzzy-number, so it could be more or less and we don't know the actual range.
This is for total actuations, not just actuations taking pictures. So every power cycle, if you have the shutter set to close on power down, adds one to the count. Shooting with the mechanical shutter counts for 2 actuations every exposure (one to blank the sensor and one to end the exposure). Images with the first curtain electronic shutter add 1 cycle to the count (when the exposure ends).
Anything that uses the electronic shutter doesn't cycle the mechanical shutter at all, and so adds nothing to the count. This includes shooting stills in full electronic mode, shooting movies, and shooting time lapse movies, but not shooting time lapse stills using an intervalometer (unless the shutter mode is set to electronic).
@@PointsInFocus Thank you for the clarification.
Does Eos Utility show the number of actuations? I remember you had to run a 3rd party exe program on your PC with camera connected to find out the number of shutter actuations. If you were selling the camera you were expected to show how many times the shutter moved, like the odometer on your car.
The answer I was looking for. Thank you for taking the time to answer followers questions @@PointsInFocus
Can I not set 2nd curtain sync for light trails?
On Canon cameras, second curtain sync is controlled by the flash, not the camera's shutter modes.
Depending on the flash you're using, you can either enable it though a button on the flash itself, or though the "External Speedlite Control" menu on the Shoot 2 menu page.
@@PointsInFocus thank you for the prompt response, I appreciate it.
excellent, thank you!
Great explanation 👍
Thank you.
Really interesting video!
Thanks
Useful and interesting. Thank you. Now, what are the real, tangible impacts of 12, 13, and 14 bit raw files? I need demonstrations here, unfortunately. At least say what you think they are. :)
I have a video coming Monday that looks more at the dynamic range situation. It's not a practical demonstration, but it is a look at the measured levels/output though. I didn't mention it in this video since hadn't planned on shooting it when I recorded this.
I'd like to do a practical test/demo too, but I'm not quite sure how to do that yet either. I don't see any value in just shooting a test chart for several reasons. The biggest of which is that just shooting a test chart replicates the "numbers" that have already been measured by sites the Photons to Photos, and doesn't really tell us anything about the practical application of that in a real scene. That latter part is the tricky bit, as it's one thing to know how much DR you have in any given mode, but it's something completely different to understand when that becomes a real problem in your photography.
The other problem is that as things currently stand, I just don't have any images to use for it - I have a reasonable sample of stuff shot with the electronic shutter, but even when it's dark planes (USN Blue Angels) against bright white clouds, the image has less dynamic range than the camera provides even in 12-bit mode (there's detail in the shadows, and no clipping in the clouds).
Wow.. so you mean my Canon R10 has only 12bit RAW in electronic shutter.. ?
I don't actually know what the bit depth of the R10's electronic shutter is, in fact, I don't think I've seen anything anywhere that says anything about it being any different from the other shutter modes. Which makes some sense, the R10 has a 24 MP sensor compared to the R5's 45MP sensor. And the primary reason for reducing the bit depth on the R5 in electronic shutter mode is to reduce the amount of data that has to be processed at 20 FPS. 20 FPS * 45 MP = 900 MP/s versus 23 FPS * 24 MP is only 552 MP/s.
Moreover, while the settings and general details discussed in these videos apply to most if not all of Canon's cameras, specific details, such as the bit depth of the electronic shutter, in this case are specific to the R5.
My R6 - when using elec 1st curtain - quite often does not trigger for 1-2 sec after taking a couple of shots in a fast row (maybe 4-6). Is there something wrong with my R6 or is this because of the shutter mode? Any help would be appreciated 🙏
That definitely doesn't sound right.
Couple of questions:
What firmware version are you running?
How readily does this happen? One in a while, or is it easily reproducible?
Is this is One Shot or Servo AF? One shot AF, by default, will prevent the shutter from releasing until focus is achieved.
Do you have digital lens optimizer set to high? This will reduce the buffer space and could cause shooting to pause while it processes and writes out images.
@@PointsInFocus 1.5.1, easily reproduceable, servo af, lens optimizer on standard (also occurs when lens optimizer is turned off). tried different sd cards, reseted my camera, what is strange to me that I have no problems when shooting in burst modes
So I just tried to reproduce what you're describing on my R5. I know, different camera, but they seem to share a lot of the underlying software so...
Anyway, I can kind of reproduce something, but I'm not sure it's what you're seeing. So if I have the camera set to single drive mode (I don't think the AF settings matter, but I was in servo, single point, and back button focusing), and rapidly press the shutter release, I could get a dozen or so frames before the camera would kind of stop responding to the shutter button. If I completely let off the shutter button it would immediately respond the next time I pressed the button. What seemed to be the case on my camera though, is that it was tied to how far I was releasing the shutter button. If I didn't release the button far enough, the camera wouldn't fire the next frame. If I completely released the button I had no problems, but going between what felt like full and half press maybe wasn't far enough.
@@PointsInFocus Thank you so much! Yes, this is pretty close to my current problem. When I shoot family photos and I therefore want to keep one subject in focus I usually leave my shutter button pressed. And after taking some pictures I have to completely let go of the shutter button to be able to take more pictures. I have had this camera for about a year and this problem only recently seemed to show itself.
Okay so it sounds like I reproduced the same problem you're having, but on the R5. Given that, I don't think it's a problem specific to your camera. It's possible that Canon changed how they detect the shutter release state in the 1.5 firmware, but I don't see why they would. I'm tempted to say that you might want to contact Canon and see what they say. I'm not sure it'll help, since I don't think your camera is broken either, and I can see that turning into a send in your camera thing, which is just a hassle, since it's unlikely that it's actually broken.
im able to use flash with fully electronic tho
What camera and flash are you using?
As things currently stand the only Canon mirrorless camera that supports flash photography while using the electronic shutter is the EOS R3.
Thank you!
thank you!!
thanks so much
Great job! Better than the Canon manual...
A+
Informative video but ultimately I wasted 12 minutes hoping to find out how to setup rear curtain sync and this was not covered here. The searching continues, unless you could comment the way to set it up.
Rear curtain sync is set on the flash (or through the Shoot2, External Speedlite Control menu for compatible flashes). Press the sync button until you see the rear curtain sync icon (3 triangles in a horizontal line with the right most filled in).
If you're not using a compatible TTL capable flash or wireless system, you won't be able to do rear curtain sync.
To elaborate on Points in Focus reply, here's what I found that works with my R5 and Godox AD200 and Godox XPro trigger for Canon.. On the XPro trigger, push Function Button 2 / 'SYNCH' twice. The first push shows the HSS icon in the upper corner of the XPro LCD panel. The second push shows the Rear Curtain Synch icon (3 triangles a horizontal row with triangle on the furtherest right filled in). An alternative, on the AD200 unit, you can set the flash delay using C.Fn F4 from 0.1 to 30 sec delay
This is not helpful explanation