Is Graham Hancock a Fraud? w/Miniminuteman | Podcast Episode 84
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 11 มี.ค. 2023
- At The Lore Lodge, we're big fans of the unknown. Folkloric creatures, unsolved disappearances, and lost civilizations are what really get us going. As you can imagine, Graham Hancock's Ancient Apocalypse is something we took a keen interest in. In fact, Mattis has been watching Graham since 2019, and largely considers Hancock to be a major reason this channel came into existence. So, we brought in a guy who's made the trending page here on TH-cam twice in the last two weeks by debunking Ancient Apocalypse. However, that's not all we're interested in today. The boys will also discuss the concept of "Atlantis" in the sense that there was an ancient civilization washed away in history, as well as the popular (if absurd) theory that there was once a great empire called Tartaria...and that it disappeared like last week.
Will Milo be able to convince Aidan that Graham is wrong? Will Aidan manage to persuade Milo into believing in Atlantis? Welcome back to The Lore Lodge...
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Also, "I don't know" is one of the most informative admissions of knowledge. Its always acceptable to convey.
1000000%
Today’s world has turned the term ignorant (or stating “idk”) as taboo.
I still haven’t figured out if it is because of social norms or if there was intent
I’m leaning. To The latter but I am still trying to break that tendency
But IDK ;)
@@tjhayes5801Idk but I just might agree with you
I often find it a mark of humility and “being grounded” to be able to utter the phrase.
"It looks like" powers up Milo like "Shazam" lmao
Those are his fightin' words!
3:02 is when it starts
Thank you senpai
Thanks bro. Good looks
KING!
thanks good fella
Legend
This is the 2nd fantastic guest you guys have hosted. The first was a woman who talked about mythology. Both incredibly knowledgeable and enthusiastic about their interests and expertise.
We can bring her back!
Are you crazy?!?! Best guest ever was Wendigoon!!! Milo is interesting too tho.
didnt even mention wendigoon, what an L
Sorry if this is late, but who was the girl they interviewed?
@@ruttdscherer it was either PiperCJ, DobyCryptids or one of the many videos they do with Wendibussy
If the people in Eurasia were called the “Tatars”, would their children be called the “Tatar Tots”?
Thanks all edited to be “tatars” which makes the pun better.
3rd Like
I'm gonna bring this up with my professor. This is actually a banger question
Absolute comedic 🥇🏆🏆🏆🥇🥇🏆🥇 mate
That stupid lil "dad joke" just made me almost squirt tea outta my nose! 😂👍
So long as no one is serving them with the sauce...
One day lore lodge wendi and milo will be in the same place and all will be well
wendigoon would be the odd one out, shirtwise lol.
Does he ever wear any of his fabulous shirts twice? coz I'm yet to notice a repeater.
@@ravenouscadaver8 He's a magical creature, you'll never perceive him the same way twice.
I want to see this
We have this HUGE conspiracy in Poland, called Great Lechia. It's surprising to me how similar it is to this Tartaria xD Great slavic empire that defeated for example Alexander the Great and than Catholic Church and the rest of the world decided to remove all informations about it. Its so ridiculous that I love it XD
Tell us more about Great Lechia. I cant find anything when I Google.
@@KingFluffs If it is a regional specific one it might not have a lot of info on the english speaking sections of the internet. I'm not at all versed in Polish so I wouldn't know any places to point you in but I'd say that Polish sites would be a good place to check (Assuming you didn't already)
I sent here a link yesterday, now I can't see it. I have to try again
@@SayberPL Links in yt comments are very finnicky. Yt will often hide them to prevent spam/scams or otherwise bad websites from causing harm. Makes it *really* hard to cite a source, no matter how reliable of a website
@@PerishingPurplePulsar The blog's name is History in Translation, author's name is Mateusz Fafiński and the artcicle title is "The Strange and Terrifying Case of the Turboslav Empire"
i just got into Lore Lodge from watching Wendigoon, and have been following Milo for a while now too. Def enjoying the crossover here.
Same here
Yup, one is for actually knowing more about the world, and one is for when you're super high on shrooms and any sort of stupid shit can see "plausible"
@@LudwigVaanArthans yeah, you'd definitely have to be tripping balls to believe pulley systems for building monoliths were around 8,000 years before they are proven to be. I want what Milo's on 😂
Never expected these two kings to colab but I’m all for it
They've done it before too
You misspelled clowns. 😆
@@kungfumaster12 you shouldn’t be talking about yourself like that
@@EatDatBitchAwp that's why I'm not. Loser
@@kungfumaster12 and yet here you are giving them another view 🤔
I often find lore lodge videos to be a tad too speculative(at least for my purposes) so I’m glad to see Milo here being a voice of reason
Same, even this one he is clearly using grahams name and criticizing him, just really seems like a rip off wendi
Milo is very different from Wendi.
He is only mentioning Graham because Graham is saying all of these things about archaeologists and spreading questionable theories. As an archaeologist he can give us insight as to what archaeologists actually think and give us the facts.
@@ElpSmith but that’s the thing, Milo is not an archaeologist, he may have a small degree in archaeology but that’s FAR from someone like graham, that’s like someone who just got a bachelors in astrophysics debating Neil D. Tyson
@@-Mintyy He has a degree in the subject and is going on an excavation soon so yes he is an archaeologist. Also, I really hope you’re not trying to compare Neil DeGrasse Tyson to Graham Hancock. NDT has a PhD in physics and Graham Hancock has a degree in sociology. They are not at all comparable. Finally, if you compare the education of Graham vs. Milo then you would see that Milo has more credentials than Graham and is therefore more qualified to talk about archaeology.
@@ElpSmith are you serious? You believe that this 20yr old kid on TH-cam who took a class at some college is more qualified than the man who has been studying and going out to sites longer than milo has been alive? Also, nobody compared Graham to Neil, if you read my comment you would have known I used what’s called an example. I’m really not trying to be rude at all but to truly believe that Young Milo here is more qualified than a man over twice his age that’s been in the field longer than Milo’s been alive is just absurd. Use your brain, think critically, study, don’t just repeat the same things your favorite TH-camr tells you too, don’t follow the crowd just because it’s easy. Actually do your research before you just say blatantly false things.
I always love watching Milo get excited when he starts talking passionately! 😂🤣
My archeological studies bring me to the theory that ancient civilizations were just memeing. Yoru just said “hey what if we build homes and make them all face the same way” and somebody was like “why would we do that” and Yoru said “well that way if someone comes by theyll just be like Whaaaaaat?”
Your account is 8 years old. You’re way too old to be talking like that.
Nobel laureate!
The Genesis Conspiracy book. Read it. Research.
Read an ancient text and some of the ways they theorize to instill "good character" in the population or whatever the fuck are *wild*.
I saw a troll thing once, basically proposing that we drill a hole at least a mile deep in a mountain, place within the corpse of a dog, wearing a crown, and fill it in with cement. Just to fuck with future people.
The Lodge with Miniminuteman? I love you guys!! 💜
The only thing that would be better (besides The Goon, of course) is if one of you guys got with Caitlin from Ask a Mortician.
I love all the folks you mentioned too!!!
#fact
I'd point out on the front of Gobekli Tepe being built by hunter-gatherers, in North America monumental earthworks started at least 2000 years before the first domesticated plants at sites like Watson Brake, and Poverty Point also shows no sign of an agricultural economy. Hunter Gatherers can and do build monumental structures.
A most welcome collaboration. I've been subscribed to Milo's channel for a while now and he does excellent work. As a historian myself I appreciate all the research he does and that he cites his sources, something the purveyors lf pseudohistory and pseudoarcheology never do. It's also because of history and my other hobby of real life mysteries and strangeness that I found my way to the Lore Lodge.
About to explode I’m so excited you two collaborated for this topic!! You mesh so well together!!
This is such a good collab, I love both of your channels
Milo is a real gentleman with his knowledge. Which is the best way to get ppl to actually listen to you and contemplate the logic of your arguments. ❤
Milo is a much better teacher on other channels! Thank you Milo for helping me understand more of geology and archaeology.
Yeah he is too pompous when by himself.
Agree@@itsadoggydogworld8974
I can't help but watch whatever milo is featured in, you just know it's gonna be informative and entertaining at the very least.
Also the lore lodge 😎
I always appreciate Milo's takes and dedication to research. I also appreciate his dedication to taking down Graham Hancock 😂😂 Go off, king
Eh, science shouldn't be a "gotcha" subject.
You shouldn't be dedicated to taking someone down lol
@@alkeenan7906 he isn’t though?
That capybara cryptid that lives in the woods and cries at its ugliness was just me in middleschool, sorry about that lmao
So cool you and milo got together for this subject! ❤
the crossover we needed
Not a cameo I expected, but a welcome one
Love this guy I've just subbed to Miniminuteman. Love how he is this is what we think and not I am right and everyone else is wrong. He also gives good explanations on why he thinks something without getting all conspericy.
The Adena were largely hunter gatherers *points to the numerous giant burial mounds in Wv* and they were pretty good at building things
What do you mean by 'largely' ?
.
Only to the uninitiated take “hunter gatherer” as a face value and absolute descriptor
Or Best lol
@@shoutmon1337 Then why is it used by mainstream academics as a class of society? Seems intentionally vague so people can cover their asses when wrong.
Im from near Morgantown, WV. Where at it in WV are you talking about?
I am so stoked to watch this video. I've been watching both of you for a while so this is amazing!
I do think that people underrate how much something akin to 1.5 inches of sealevel rise a year is and how close to sea level places like Sundaland & Doggerland actually were at the time. Like an inch of water gets into your food storage and you could lose months if not years worth of stored food and that's enough to erode the foundations of any society. People can say "oh just move further inland" but that's not as easy as you think when you don't know how far you have to move inland to avoid danger and you're not a hunter gatherer society and maybe you don't even have ths surplus building materials. Hell imagine if the sea level rise hit you mid winter, you can't just go walking off into the snowscape.
i need more collabs between these two groups
Things are heating up in the Archaeology fandom
Frfr
Fucking A Tweety bird it is!
It seems to me that "Question Evetything" has become closer to "Oppose everything" and further from "Trust but Verify"
Correct me if I'm wrong but I read somewhere years ago that recorded history goes back 5K years. If as a species we've been on earth for approximately 300K years, why has seemingly 90% of societal development happened in the last 1.6% of humanity's existence?
There's a variety of reasons, but one of the big ones is just that materials decay over time. Think of how many artifacts, modern and historical, are made of wood. Consider the idea that wood is one of the easiest and most abundant materials to work with. Now consider that wood does not last more than a decade, usually. Going back long enough, this will even be true of stone and metal.
Bc this is a simulation. I’m not a big one piece fan but I’m starting to wonder how close our reality is to their fiction.
It’s because technological advancements grow exponentially. For the longest time technological inventions were being developed incredibly slowly, but as more advancements happened, additional advancements could be made more quickly. So by the time we reach agriculture the rate of inventions becomes a lot more rapid, resulting in most of our species history only happening over the course of like 1% of our time on earth.
Not to mention that the invention of agriculture and a sedentary lifestyle was necessary for any future developments to happen. Until that happened, there wasn’t too much people could do but improve their hunting and gathering. So, that’s all we did for most of those 300k years
You sort of need written language to record history. And there was probably a lot of development that we aren’t aware of before writing was invented.
@@highlorddarkstar our knowledge of ancient inventions comes from finding the inventions themselves. There are very clear lines in the archeological record where like spears and hammers come into existence
I just found this! I follow both of you and never knew this existed!! Cant wait to hear this!
I was really hoping this trio would happen.
WOOOAAA milo and lore lodge in one place???? God has answered my prayers
The Clovis and fremont peoples were thousands of years old, and theres evidence from their graneries that the population was close to 100k in places. at some point the weather in the four corners area was able to support crops but now as far as we know, those people scattered to the wind. some to canada some to mexico some to the plains states. what if thats what happened to these potential coastal civilizations and were just absorbed into nearby cultures
0.75 speed is necessary. great show. really enjoyed your guest.
I've taken an interest in debunking some of the debunkers... Not with woo or feels but actually hitting up the points. Milo missed a few things, but he was super chill about it when we talked. Seeing him here, I see more of what I saw from him in our emails. He's a good dude. Subbed, I'm always intreated in folks who aren't close minded but aren't off the deep end either.
Debunking some debunkers? Good luck debunking The Debunkers tho. They're undebunkable
@@ShrexyGuy No, they're not. Even easier.
along the lines of Bimini road, I don't know if you've ever mentioned it but hancock also used to talk about Yonaguni, off the coast of Japan. Looks very much like man made structures, but I think its probably something like columnar basalt, ie natural, but formed from highly regular crystals or whatever, but I find the overall theory he uses it to support very interesting - that sea levels rose massively at some point and as lots of civilisations gather at coastal areas, there are probably lots of 'drowned' towns/cities around the world waiting to be discovered
Hearing the difference between what Graham speaks of in his books vs what is portrayed in the Series so early does make me far willing to hear the refutations.
That "Advanced civilization" term is vague enough to make people fill in what they see. I used to consider it as a civilization on par with that Spartan/Athenian Greece, stone work, metal smelting and sea travel. A skeptic would laughingly say "Flying cars and antigravity". But if Graham is saying pre industrial Britian that's a bit much.
Well the problem is people will read a book that Graham wrote in the mid 90s and say, "Aha this is what he now thinks!".
I agree but he can argue the meaning is more that they hadn't got to cars and electric
Okay can you explain the precision carved granite artifacts that have been recovered from Egyptian sites then? Because that is strong evidence of some kind of machine tool process
@@SinkoDucc No, no it doesn’t require machine precision. It is entirely possible to make incredibly precise cuts using only hand tools. It’s just difficult and extremely time consuming. This is why the exceptional precision is just that: exceptional. We only see it in a few places, generally tombs and temple: both places associated with wealthy and powerful people who could afford to pay skilled craftsmen to spend lots of time to do things right.
As to the question around the 38 minute mark if sea level rise was undermining coastal groups on the cusp of developing agriculture, that's a cool idea, but agriculture tends not to be associated with coastal environments in the earliest stages of development. Coastal environments are extremely resource rich. Hunter-Gatherers living on the coasts have access to fish, marine mammals, birds, and mollusks, most of which have very high caloric or nutrient return rates which makes growing undomesticated grasses really labor intensive and pointless. By contrast, both in Eurasia and in North America, incipient agriculture is associated with inland riverine environments. In the US the Eastern Agricultural Complex started around tributaries of the Mississippi, like the Ohio, Tennessee, and Arkansas river basins.
Hancock didn't postulate that Gobeki Tepi was buried. The original archeologist, Klaus Schmidt postulated that for particular reasons that further study have now found to not be the case. Hancock was simply referencing him because that was the info that was available at the time.
Keep this up!!! We need more voices to combat these grifters whining their way to millions of dollars. I started out watching Graham Hancock and Randall Carlson and now I can see the grift clear as day. We need more videos breaking them down.
Comet impact hypothesis is legit IMO, so is the geological work down by Randall worth some merit. Outside that Graham is more a novelist and Randall makes stuff up he doesn't know the answer to and is convinced of his correctness when he is demonstrably wrong. And the worst part is some of his main points are built on those false beliefs making all his work hard to give merit.
@@SamtheIrishexan you are spot on! I also agree about the comet impact theory. As well as the fact that “Hunter gatherers” weren’t the idiots we depict them as. They were far more complex. But that’s a far cry from where they take it. They are working backwards cherry-picking information to make it mean whatever they want. Graham Hancock did an entire episode on the Bimini road. And the only “evidence” he presents isn’t even evidence. The Perry Reese map was “based on older source maps”. . 😂 just ridiculous. That doesn’t prove anything. It’s purposely vague.
Check out Potholer54 vids on Hancock
I was a huge fan of randall carlson but when he started talking about a free energy device I had to look more closely at his other claims.
Its not meant to prove anything though@@jaxoncrow6918
Milos gotta get a guy to do chalk background sketches when he does videos on site
Under-rated comment!! This would be really cool. Great idea!!
I clicked on what I thought was this and then I watched your podcast from 2 years ago with minute man lol
As someone who stuided history in Wales, did you do the charterists? I live not to far from where all that went down (and I'm the daughter of a historian) so I'd love to hear your take on the whole Welsh rebelions and the like.
I saw someone in the chat say Milo isn’t a credible archaeologist because he’s on TH-cam and I think I just have to let that one sink in. That was incredibly stupid.
I find the whole tar tar thing funny considering the Mongolian controlled slavs called them the "Tar Tar Yolk." Or something along that line, so it could do with that.
As a Californian who got snow... I got over a foot of snow... EARLIER THIS WEEK (somewhere around March 20th)! At its maximum height, the snow in my yard probably got up to 4 and a half feet. Where I live part-way up some mountains in SoCal, we normally do get a decent amount of snow every year. But this year, it has been more than usual. In a few places at the ridgeline in these mountains, I heard the snow got up to 11 feet. For the most part, we are weathering it. Although it may have caused a dozen or so deaths in that area.
As far as the Bimini Road goes, I think there is too much read into its name. Just because "road" is in the name doesn't mean that if theories about its anthropologenic origin are true (which I do not necessarily subscribe to), that it had to be a literal road for wagons or foot traffic. To me, if it was human-made, its shape actually seems like it would be more useful as part of a dry dock.
Also, as far as floods go, one of Graham's buddies is Randall Carlson. Smart guy, although I don't agree with him on a chunk of stuff that he comments on as he gets further from his fields of experience. Anyway, he hypothesizes that Atlantis may have been flooded not just because of rising sea levels (which he figures would have been more extreme and sudden, considering a meteor impact can melt a LOT of ice), but very importantly, also because of the reduced weight on the Eurasian and North American continents. All the ice from the ice ages has a real weight, and that will press down on the crust in specific places; the weight of the ice is not evenly distributed on the crust. His theory is that ice would have pinched the shape of the Earth slightly as the three-plate junction where the Azores exist. That may have raised the crust slightly. However, as that ice melts, that weight is relieved from the crust and redistributed over the oceans, including the Azores. This would cause the Azores plateau to sink down relative to its previous position. I figure that even if the ice melted suddenly, the mantle isn't clearly dilineated from the crust. It may have taken time for semi-rigid crust to collapse back down. But when it did, the whole thing would have collapsed suddenly.
"It looks like a road!" There's freckles on my ass that look like a face, these guys must assume ancient humans made those as well.
"Is Graham Hancock a Fraud?"
Yes. And Erich von Däniken isn't a scholar. Next question.
Just one retort to something Milo said around the 1:33:-- mark. He said it's trained academics responsibility to present the information to lamen in a consumable manner. I don't know if he meant to imply literally every academic has that responsibility, but I'd like to expand and say that not every academic is naturally inclined toward science communication. Many neurodivergent scientists are brilliant in their field but may not necessarily have the right social tools to convey it to the lamen in a perfectly understandable way
I do believe though that all discoveries should be presented for the lamem by SOMEONE credible in an easily accessible format. Sensationalism in popular media outlets is one of the primary obstacles to this concept of direct and accurate transference of information. And a show like the main one discussed in this podcast unfortunately serves to perpetuate that sensationalism (though I understand that is not the only thing the show serves to do - like Milo mentioned with it also serving to reveal interesting sites that lamen may not otherwise be exposed to)
the crossover we all needed
I live in the foothills of the Cascades, where the Chehalis tribe would have hunted. A transplant from southern climes, I have spoken to many locals whose families are multigenerational in this region. All have family stories of Sasquatch encounters.
Lots of stories, no evidence
The problem with Hancock above anything is the fact that he gets to go around lying about the smoke he has with archeologist while having a career path completely and utterly dependent on their work and their findings COMPLETELY. this dude takes ur notes, fails the tests, and blames u for cheating. I think the real problem is too many ppl are attached to the mysticism of his theory to accept the reality of the actual findings their based on, the actual data he’s got zero to do with other than writing a sensationalizing book that overshadows the original work with his (literally self proclaimed) unprofessional head-cannon
so now we can’t disagree with people in the fields in which we study? it’s not like he disagrees with everything. he proposed one theory and he’s a pseudoscientist.
@@BassmentBrain he’s not in the field, In his own words he is not an archeologist. Too many here are far too snappy to his defense where he’s not even willing to make it himself. No one said u couldn’t disagree, but Hancock isn’t just disagreeing, he’s straight up lying about the things said by the ppl whose work his career completely relies on. Who dug up n found the ancient lost civilization and documented them in the first place? The archaeologists who are excitedly dedicating time and physical effort to uncover the past who have already uncovered and recorded many lost civilizations and histories and actively seek more? Or the self described pseudo-archeologist who writes books and streaming specials that make him a lot of money and fame as he says the other guys won’t do anything like him. I think it’s pretty understandable that If you didn’t do the work, you don’t get the right of deciding what the work means. This literally applies everywhere, n I’d venture to say if this kinda dynamic was thrust onto you outside of the context of ancient civilizations and academic conspiracies, like at your job maybe, that you would also see immediately the issue n find yourself more than frustrated with the ppl that minimize your efforts in a place they literally have no involvement in and no reason, other than self gain, to do so. What make it especially sad is that the same ppl he’s throwing shade on are still lending him their efforts in good faith. They still assume he will give them dignity as they volunteer to speak and do work for his projects, when he immediately turns around to edit their efforts and talk about how they hate him. It just reeks of a familiar stench of a certain “caliber” of person we’ve seen since the dawn of politics and commerce.
Pls. If you’ve getting this far, pls go to Milo’s channel and try his videos on ancient apocalypse. Pls listen to the ppl who Hancock says he cam speak for, out of the desire for plain old dignity, listen to the other side and keep an open mind, because I promise you, what you’ve been told other say, they do not.
Edit: and if you could, pls tell me how you are being “stopped” from disagreeing? How is that even possible to do? This whole discourse got sparked by Hancock’s popular NETFLIX SERIES. How are you being stopped? By being confronted with countering claims in a comment section? This is a routine defensive reflex that is incredibly black and white. It sounds very much like y’all really dislike that their is AN opposing argument at all, not that your being “stopped” from having one. My advice for ppl like you, don’t give your attention to ppl who present THEMSELVES as “great but prosecuted men” in fields of collective effort especially.
@@shoutmon1337 to many people here are far to snappy to his defense? Lmao look in the mirror bub.
@@BassmentBrainHe proposes his theory but then produces no actual evidence to support his theory. The closest thing he has ever done to support his theory is to point to things that have already been discovered, already been studied to extensive degrees, and say "Nah I think it's this". And when he is asked to actually provide substantive evidence to support his claims he has nothing but vibes and feelings.
@@-Mintyy What? I’m not defending Hancock at all, I think your mixed up. Also that not even the point I made. Why be like this? Is this just a necessity?
To me it sounds like Hancock has one corner of the puzzle done. But he believes he has solved the entire puzzle. I would love to see more research done in to the subjects he brought up. What I worry about though is that Hancock may react badly to any pushback. I don't know if he has or not I'm very new to this stuff. But I worried that he could. Which will make the greater archaeology world not research into the stuff. Which would be very disappointing. I'm not saying that that's what's going to happen I'm just worried that it may. This was a great conversation to listen to. Has someone who enjoys both of your guys's content this is something I was really excited to see. Keep up the great work God bless.
The problem with Graham is that he is the only guy trying to finish a puzzle while everything he tries to present to the archaeological community is met with disdain and ostracization and "Minutemen" is very guilty of it. The result of this is making he dive deeper and deeper in his ideas trying to prove them, whilst people just Scream it is wrong without trying to at least disprove him on site, investing resources and people to disprove him and others like him. They just wail on him from the comfort of their libraries, studios (like the guest) and classrooms.
He's an idiot. He takes evidence of civilizations thousands of years apart then tries to connect it all as if megalithic civilizations were remotely capable of sailing around the world lmao. The sheer time requirement alone without modern technology makes such primitive trade utterly useless. Why would it ever make more sense that they all must be connected somehow, instead of the far more realistic and frankly probable case that there were simply megalithic civilizations going back further than mainstream historians would have you believe?
I think that’s a good assessment, that he has a corner but thinks he has the whole
@@TheLoreLodge atleast he's trying to put the puzzle together. I think the "Having a corner and thinking you have it all" is something that Academia is several magnitudes more guilty of. Kind of ridiculous to accuse Hancock of what his detractors are doing.
The real problem with Hancock is that there's not much evidence of a puzzle, when it's not in any way clear that there is one.
The chat was definitely an interesting place to be, with some people discrediting Milo not on any academic grounds but because of his hair and rings. Letting that casual homophobia slip out. This was a fun discussion between friends not a University lecture people took this way too seriously and going after Milo the way some did really boiled my blood. However there were also some defending Milo who were also taking things way too far and acting childish so honestly it was a shit show but thats just the internet for ya
Damn, I actually have some academic push back on milo. Wish I were here then.
@@codybassett112yeah uh-huh I’m sure you do
I was so excited to see Milo on. Aiden and Milo are probably two of the smartest people I've seen. I remember talking to Milo on tiktok live back when he was just an itty bitty rising star.
1:08:53 to be fair, Hancock did originally describe white skinned Europeans in fingerprints of the gods, but in subsequent editions and in other works he has dropped that part of his theory likely because he realized it was kinda a bad look.
Probably after one of his children married a person of color. He probably doesn't want to be a racist Grandpa.
He scaled back on the white and caucasian spiel but did revisit that theme a bit in Magicians of the Gods. For example, he went from claiming that certain representations of people in pre-contact Aztec art had "distinctly caucasian" features to something like "distinctly non-native' features. But still managed to work in a couple references to white gods myths as well.
if the flooded civilization model is to be believed I would think that there would be more distinct evidence of progression from the shore moving inland with remnants of older iterations of settlements getting progressively older as you go toward and into the sea. Especially since the transition took 500 years, people would still want to stay near the water even if it was gradually encroaching on them as they depended on it as a food source. So yeah it comes down to more need for underwater excavation.
It was as short as a century my guy. Think of all the most ridiculous climate alarmist models we have today and then intensify it by a factor of 2 and that’s what ancient man lived through. The force of natural disasters that would take place at that time would wipe out most of civilization TODAY across the globe.
@@codybassett112 I'm more inclined to believe to archeologist my friend who says it was more like a slow progression over about 500 years. Especially since you use "climate change allarmist" which sounds like you are a climate denier, so you clearly aren't looking at data in either case.
More than 90% of the sea floor remains unmapped and in the case of a large scale flood most evidence would be buried under layers of sediment. We need to be looking more closely at the continental shelves. Perhaps a submersible equipped with GPR
@@icecreamassassin3006 there have been 5 ice ages over the past 500,000 years. We are incredibly fortunate to have been born during a warm period in Earth's history. If you think there is anything that humanity can do whether intentionally or unintentionally to stop the next ice age you simply don't understand the scale of the forces at play.
@SinkoDucc I never said we can avoid an ice age, stop putting words in people's mouths. My point is that our actions can accelerate the warming process which it has as is evidenced in scientific proof. Had we never industrialized we would have had a lot more time before the planet gets too hot for us. We are going to die from excessive heat long before the next freeze would wipe us out and our actions of the past 200 years has only served to hasten that warming.
i love the crossover of wendigoon fans and milo fans in the comments rn
Lost settlements 50 miles west of phoenicia, funny enough there are small towns west of the area from around the same or similar era as gobekli tepe and after where they were forced to abandon it as salt water leeched into their wells. We would however see evidence of major settlements if sea levels rise and entire civilizations were displaced just the same as with these Mediterranean settlements.
Loved this nice to watch a video without an edit every 20secs 😂
omg when will this become a wendigoon x milo collab
Cool mashup, thanks guys
Archaeology and the bible does mix. It proved an extreme draught about 13,000 years ago, it proved a massive sea level rise that changed life as it was developing, science in general has proven the sea was first, then life of the ocean, then trees, then "crawling things", then man was how life appeared here. It's absolutely stunning how much JUST IN GENESIS that modern science has proven to be indisputable truth
Graham Hancock is a journalist and a writer. He's inherently neither fraudulent or a fraud. Some or all of his sources may or may not be, but he's a journalist, who cites sources, interviews individuals, and travels to collect information, which he then compiles into book form. I don't understand this modern obsession and fixation with labels and seeking to either credit or discredit a person based on information which originates from other sources that they then present for consideration.
Ohhh you silly Billy, milo the almighty archeologist can’t go five seconds without calling someone inferior to him, it’s practically a medical condition for him
Milo and the Lore Lodge!! Love it when my favorite channels do a collab!! Also Hancock is a pseudo archaeologist with a lot of money. He's right up there with the Victorian Antiquarians.
😂😂 he literally says repeatedly that he's not an archeologist at all and has never claimed to be. Love when people talk shit about stuff they know nothing about 🤡
@@Mcgriddles90210 he’s actually claimed in his own words that he’s a “pseudo archaeologist” you know it’s better for Mr Hancock when u do it slowly
@@Mcgriddles90210 he does say he's not an archaeologist but he clearly has done a lot of research into egypt. It doesn't take much research to find the information he claims doesn't exist. So that leads people to believe he's selling these books based on people's ignorance to the subject. Hancock repeatedly claims mainstream archeology won't accept things, they accept it when there is evidence. There's been about 200 years since modern people deciphered hieroglyphs from the rosetta stone and Graham dissmises all the work over that time because it seems impossible to him. I've seen people moving large stones and cutting them without the use of fancy technology.
@@greatscott369lmao "they accept it when there is evidence". You are clearly bonkers or ignorant, or possible both.
i enjoy how respectful this is. This is a true argument. An intellectual discussion to discover truth.
This is itneresting and literally the only podcast from anyone i've enjoyed lol
Because it's Milo and the lorelodge andtheyre friendly with eachother
Thank you anime girl PFP covered with blushing and wet spots 👍
"Highly advanced ancient civilization"
Their "highly advanced" stuff would have been knowing that copper+tin makes bronze or something like that.
Not it’s not ur so wrong lmao
Cool so how did they carve granite artifacts to tolerances within one thousandth of an inch?
@@SinkoDucc tight strings and quartz assisted copper saws probably.
@@Turinnn1 if you think such a setup can produce circular granite objects with tolerances tighter than the width of a human hair then I'm sorry but you simply haven't done any machining in your life
@@SinkoDucc No. I don't think so. And they never did so.
All the claims of "laser like" precision are made up false bullshit.
The structures at Gobekli Tepe are pit houses. They were surrounded by dirt and accessed from the top, down a ladder. They weren't buried to hide or preserve them, they were built that way. A pithouse is structurally sound because of the surrounding dirt. They would have filled up with blowing sand and soil naturally over time when no longer in use.
You see, this is exactly the problems with the more fantastic theories. They hide these real facts.
And stones? They filled them with stones. Not just sand a rubble.
You've made a lot of assumptions based on nothing, seems.
If so, how were the multi-ton pillars transported?
@@byron2334 Ramps, ropes, boats, lots of options.
@@carlycrays2831 With hunter gatherer technology? How? Have you every worked a day of construction in your life?
He is not a fraud, all he really does is ask questions and propose theories. He is however, hated by the dogmatic egyptologists ( specifically ) and archeological academia ( in general ). He truly believes his ideas and theories. He may be flat out wrong., but he is not trying to mislead anyone. Therefore he is most definitely not a fraud.
Honestly it doesn't matter his intent if what he does hurts people, conspiracy theories do hurt people.
Yes, he _does_ make claims that are false, and he _does_ do that deliberately for personal profit.
@@rowbot5555 small price to pay to uncover the truth
The truth hurts, sorry
@@williamchamberlain2263 Nah he is a true believer. He definitely believes some whacky stuff but he's not acting in bad faith
Milo is the king of criticism against ridiculous theories. But he's also extremely respectful and welcoming to those who aren't experts in his field and those who are curious about different theories. It's so refreshing to see a scientific channel and a more conspiracy/mystery channel interact respectfully and positively.
Also I really love the theory that the Atlantis idea came from a civilization that was ahead of its neighbors and got flooded out. And then over the course of hundreds of thousands of years, humanity did the tall tale thing and eventually we decided the place was called Atlantis and had flying cars.
Hancock's overall body of work was toned down for Ancient Apocalypse and did not really include a racial element. That is a significant departure from the position that he took in Fingerprints of the Gods. For example, in Fingerprints of the Gods he made numerous references to myths supposedly involving white gods, but took that much further. Asserting, for example, that the features on various statues in pre-contact Mexico were "distinctly caucasian," "anglo-saxon," or even similar to the "chiseled" features on the famous Uncle Sam character. Didn't help that he also expressed skepticism that "semi-civilized" and "jungle-dwelling Indians" like the Maya developed a complex calendar without outside help. In the face of criticism he tried to modify this in later books by, for instance, changing distinctly caucasian features to distinctly non-indigenous features. But kind of hard to unring that bell. The problem being that his critics tend to comment on his overall body of work rather than what was specifically offered in modified and sanitized form in the Netflix series. Hence, people who watched the series are scratching their heads over accusations (overzealous in my opinion) of racism on Hancock's part. In broader context, however, he has said things that were inviting criticism as it relates to racial issues. Significant in the present because many people who learned of him though the series are now starting to consume his earlier work.
It's not racist to say "the features of this statue look caucasian" lmao
Do you have an actual response to that observation or do you think you can just accuse him of racism and call it a day?
Intellectually lazy
Frankly only left wingers get upset by this. He said 'white' and you re-coil in disgust - a reflection of you frankly. My belief is He was simply mistaken, and never tried to imply any race is superior. His choice in wife and life partner is odd for a racist wouldn't you think? Seriously of all the bat shit crazy stuff Hancock comes up with I still read 'muh racism' complaints. 😂
For people who wanna know more about the Tartarian Mud Flood myth, Mia Mulder has a really reeaaalllly good video on it and the political implications of its popularity in the modern day.
Also, what they said about "Tartaria getting pushed further and further east as they discovered more" reminds me of a funny clip from Slavoj Zîzek. If you want a quick laugh, look up "Slavoj Zizek explains the Balkans"
Mia does good work
One thing i will ad, living on a specific part of brach growing up, the citrents and change of currents can change things drastically. Unbelievably sometimes.
Oh hellll yeahhhh finallly some sweet sweet crossover action, might be better than Jimmy x Fairy Odd Parents
3:04 Stream Starts
A fraud? I'd argue he's not that. He's definitely a conspiracy theorist and totally wrong in his ideas. But to me, a "Fraud" requires a person who knowingly promotes lies for personal benefit from others. And what I get from Hancock is that he is a true believer in his wrongheaded stuff - which makes him a deluded person but not a fraud, specifically.
Lookiny forward to this, should be good 👀
Great stream 👍
Graham is trying to speedrun ancient civilization discovery 😂
While I do believe there's more to our history then we know. I feel like he's pushing it so hard without any rock solid proof thus making him look kinda like he doesn't know really what he's talking about which is a shame
@@jacobortega7581 the worst part is that his theory make the ancient world so boring. It’s literally a cookie cutter back story from like 19 recently released YA fantasy books and ppl are so eager to eat it up. For some reason theirs a lot of ppl who really really like the cliche idea of a homogenized cultural history defined by a superior race of beings. I like the fact that Roman’s had to adapt to Egyptian occupation and vice versa, I like the fact that the mongols could touch so much of history as horse chads, I like that some random sea raiders left a mark on ancient history for being really good random sea raiders, I like that our world has been the product of many groups and beliefs that do not need to align with parallels in other groups and beliefs. Why can’t we have a marvel universe of history, and diverse characters and stories, why do ppl want so hard to simplify things to a grey and squared understanding of yes or no.
@@shoutmon1337even though there were some really bogus articles claiming Graham engages in racist archaeology or whatever it is, I am beginning to understand the gripe about a subset of this lost ancient civilisation people who constantly attribute civilizational development in Meso America, Africa or Asia to unknown entities.
Bro is old he ain’t trying to die before they find them left and right
@@jacobortega7581 bruh he was close friends with the director of the gobleki tepe site
So a friend of mine once told me a story, and this has stuck with me ever since - and before I start, let me just say that I am almost entirely sure this story never actually happened but I'm giving my friend the benefit of the doubt. So said friend was at a party or similar social event and got into a science v religion argument with some guy he'd just met, and the guy said that he could prove, scientifically, that God exists. My friend, sceptical of this, said, okay, go ahead, prove scientifically that God exists. The guy's argument was this: it is an established scientific fact that over time a complex system decreases in complexity; for example, if you took a balloon full of helium gas into a room and burst it, at the moment you burst the balloon all the helium atoms would be concentrated in the one place, but this is a complex system, so if you came back later and measured the dispersion of helium in the air you'd find it evenly distributed because this is less complex. However, life becomes more complex over time, we started out as single-cell organisms and are now human beings ... most of us. In order for a system to gain complexity you need to add energy to it, but because the Earth is a closed system, you have to get that energy from somewhere else, and the only possible place that energy could come from is God. To which my friend said something like, yeah, you're right, all that external energy could have come from God ... or, you know, it could have come from the sun.
I feel like this is similar to what's going on with Graham Hancock, this kind of modified Dunning-Kruger effect. He understands the pieces of the puzzle he's looking at, he just doesn't understand how to put them together properly. Plus there's obviously a level of inadequacy and arrogance going on with him, too: _I_ am right about this, _I_ am the only person who understands this, _you_ must listen to _me_ because everybody else is too stupid and/or corrupt to tell you the truth like I will, etc. So, the tl;dr is: no, I don't think he's a fraud, I think he's a dangerous mixture of inadequate, arrogant, and the Dunning-Kruger effect.
Entropy increases in a system (e.g. the universe). That doesn't mean that it can't decrease locally (e.g. a specific planet in the universe). So you don't even need the Sun to win the argument.
@@TheBoogerJames I appreciate your input. The story is more an illustration of how it's possible to have just enough information/knowledge to draw incorrect conclusions, rather than a science lesson.
My thing is, his stuff is entertainment. He is reducing whole cultures and histories into his weird little conspiracies so his followers can consume them as entertainment, which then is taken as fact.
so like most archeologists
@TheLongDark One more interesting fact about entropy. If you have a collection of molecules in a vacuum, they will eventually occupy all possible states. Say you had the exact molecules needed to make up an apple, and you put them in a small box in a vacuum. Left long enough (perhaps longer than the universe has existed), those molecules will eventually arrange themselves into an apple just by randomness. So all you really need are time and luck to get just about anything.
The colab of the year.
Nice seeing a respectful debate online. Doesn’t happen much. Hancocks stuff can be out there sometimes but I would be lying if I said he wasn’t entertaining and has some valid points.
New to the channel this was one of the first videos I have watched. Very interesting discussion.
Went to watch Milo's videos on the ancient apocalypse show. Now I don't really trust Milo. On this show he says he doesn't think Hancock is racist but in 2 of his 3 videos he likens him to Nazis and I'm the third he still implied that Hancock was racist. One of the times he liked Hancock to Nazis was immediately after saying how othering people is bad. He also keeps saying how welcoming the archeology community is to new ideas but then interviews an archeologist who says few people in the community will talk to Hancock. He talks out both sides of his mouth so I don't trust him.
Proposing theories doesn’t equal fraud. It goes against the accepted narrative, so it’s “nonsense”.
But asserting that your theories are 100% true and that you have evidence when in reality you don't is fraud. Well maybe not legal fraud, but he does lie and use deceptive tactics
@@NoName-yu7gj I haven't known Hancock to ever say that his theories are 100% true. Can you point to an example of this? He frequently states that he *doesn't* have all the answers and is speculating
THE LORE LODGE MADE A PODCAST WITH WENDIGOON AND NOW THEYRE DOING MINIMINUTEMAN ARE YALL STALKING MY FEED FOR WHO TO DO A PODCAST WITH BECAUSE?????
I think Milo should be given a series but i'm sure they wouldn't think it was hyped up enough to vause interest but it definitely would just, if nothing else, his enthusiasm on the subject. He could make clearing a stopped up sink interesting! Lol
10 minutes in and host has mentioned someone’s followers twice. Cloutbrain puts me off 😣😖
I think you’d really enjoy talking with historian’s craft on the 12000 year old temple in turkey he has a really cool video on it
The whole atlantis flying car trope started after the book "atlantis the antediluvian world" was published in the 1800s.
Yes. Yes he is
I dont think Hancock is trying to be racist at all. However the idea that the indigenous cultures didnt have the skill and brilliance to build the monuments attributed to them, and instead needed help from a more advanced culture, is infantilizing and insulting to the cultures that did build those monuments. And when it comes to deciding whether something is racist or not, his ideas are in such a grey area that yea, I can totally see why some would consider his hypotheses racist.
but it has happened a lot of times no? Where civs have taught other civs new tech, to even bring raceism into that discussion is utterly ridiculous imo.
@@izznoogood While yes, you are right to an extent, a great example of exactly what you are talking about being the introduction of steel, horses, and firearms to Central and South America during the 15th and 16th centuries. There is a significant difference is saying that indigenous peoples had to be taught how to tame an animal that didnt previously exist in their territory, and that same indigenous peoples couldn't have built their monuments without intervention. The former has evidence, the later does not.
Bringing racism into the argument may seem utterly ridiculous. And for most of us, it is. But for those people who consider their race superior to all others, like white supremacists for instance, they cant imagine a world where a group of people that arnt their race can build something that may just eclipse their race's achievements at the same level of technological development. Thus they had to have help from the advanced race that has the same skin-color as the racist person. And that is where racism comes in.
@@azulaspencer Yeah, it has a whiff of colonialism about it…Not that Hancock has that racist colonialist mindset, but you can see how it could be taken if viewed by people who do.
@@azulaspencer are the white supremacists in the room with us now?
Re: @12:45-ish when the hosts mention that the Guardian et. al. referred to the show in question, and Hancock in particular, as 'dangerous': I definitely think that's hyperbole, maybe even bordering on clickbait. They gotta generate those clicks, eh?
I liked the how the term 'predatory' was mentioned vis-a-vis how the show approached their (almost literally) 'target' audience...
I would suggest that the most accurate term, with regards to the effects that the show could have on scientific literacy is best described as 'reckless'- as it clearly subordinates scientific rigor and even basic rationality to sensationalism for profit regardless of any harm that it could cause.
This kinda crap should, maybe, carry an 'R' rating, and be primarily accessable to adults who can (or at least have a right to) decide the merits of such a 'reckless' and, even 'predatory' piece of entertainment for themselves.
Cool information, loved this episode, but bro featured in the video was speaking so damn fast lol
That’s just how Milo is, he started on ticktok so I think he’s used to short form content and having a time limit to get his points across
To be fair, Graham Hancock has a serious chip on his shoulder from years of ridicule. He is unable to distance himself emotionally from how he is perceived by the mainstream community, thus taints his presentation.
Sadly it seems most demonize his character over actually breaking down his theories. Honestly I think it's an overall sham that we "know" most of our prehistory or even history for that matter.
1:08:00 first off I don't think Hancock ia a racist, but his entire thesis is based off ignatius donelly who was a racist and the theory was drummed up because Donnelly didn't think these non-europeN races could have built ancient monuments and so he thought there must be an ancient advanced white globe spanning society that built or taught non-europeans to build these structures. His ideas were taken up by the nazis on their search for atlantis. So Hancock's whole thesis is built on racist ideas that contradict mainstream evidence. In fingerprints of the gods hancock describes this ancient civilization as bearded and white.