Out of all the coverage I've watch so far on this announcement/embargo lift I've enjoyed this one the most. You guys are great from your writers to your editors to the faces.
They show the slide with the Coremark, Sysmark and UL Overall benchmarks for less than 3 SECONDS. Highly suspect that they score a 32% and 36% uplift in pugetbench (which intel bribed to rig their test) but only 19% in CoreMark and 15% in SysMark and the UL OVERALL Benchmarks. THAT is definitely the more important slide. This is not looking good for PugetBench and Intel, BUT I am ALSO quite disappointed in Level1 and Wendell for going along with this.
@@excitedbox5705 lmfao LMFAO if you knew anything you would know to wait for these guys to get their own review up before paying attention to the slides. Yes they give a good idea of what's coming but how have slides gone for the last ten years? They use one specific computation and then judge their whole processor off of it and it's not realistic. Just like it's not realistic for you to think most/any of this. You don't have many friends do you?
Wasn't AMD Opteron the processor that made sure x86 wouldn't go quietly into the night? Intel at the time tried to kill off x86 to switch to Itanium until AMD with the Opteron kept x86 alive by updating it to 64 bit and which Intel then licensed the rights to use shortly after, pretty much abandoning all hope for their own Itanium architecture.
Itanium was a nightmare way of trying to create a closed system of 64-bit processing. It had issues that killed it even without it lacking older x86 support.
@@somehow_not_helpfulATcrap There was plans for high end IA64 desktops. For normal desktops Intel planned to continue using IA32. Intel didn't see a future for the laptop market at the time as they were already developing, and released a couple years later, the IA32 based Intel Atom for netbooks.
@@SaturnusDK 'Intel didn't see a future in the Laptop market' just like how they didn't see a future in the iPhone? Whoever was leading Intel back then really had amazing foresight /s
@@carl8790 They saw a future for netbooks, or what we today would call ultrabooks, so in a sense they were on the right track. They just severely overestimated how powerful their IA32 Atom processors would end up being compared to Core architecture based chips they developed as a direct response to AMD64.
LTT pointed out that Intel’s numbers were for Windows 11, which AMD has had problems with. Will be interesting to see the comparison once the AMD Windows 11 support gets up to snuff.
Its already in windows and the patch worked so yes AMD is up to speed. But that matters not to performance enthusiasts concerning. Intel threw everyone a curve ball, Intel has 2 stock configurations. Depending on your cooling . 125 watt PL1/241 watt PL2 they are both listed as stock setting , I want Full Turbo 241 watts , GPUs will be over 450 watts soon and are over 300 watts now, So skip the song and dance , Stock is what intel says it is not AMD fanbios. This is going to be fun . The left will cry and cry time and time again.
Someone tested performance after the patch and saw barely any change, within margin of error. Intel told reviewers ahead of time they used the pre-patch AMD numbers because AMD only patched it a few days before the event, which didnt give Intel enough time to do benchmarks again. Also its kind of AMD's fault they took over 3 weeks to fix an issue for windows 11, while Intel didnt have issues.
I don't think it's AMDs fault windows 11 is a rushed public beta test that is being pushed out way too early. Did microsoft not even bother testing with an AMD CPU?
Love the innovation at play.. but I've got zero regrets about the 5900x upgrade kit I just got in yesterday. Will stick with twelve performance cores and be happy with 'em.
You will be very happy and the VFM factor is great. Same platform adopted 5 months back. Will run on it till late 2023. But am excited that Intel is back. Once Mid generation these products will have great pricing after the intial flush and hype. I hear that the mobos and ram will put a bigger dent on your budget allocation. So we may have to wait till next year to see reasonable pricing especially in items like ram. Hope we will see availability issues get better next year. Good to see the CPU manufacturers really innovating.
@@SianaGearz Well it's replacing a 3770k from 2013 that's been running every app and game I wanted it to at 4.3ghz.. I'm aiming for a bit more than 5 years :)
Pricing in Australia is munted, i9 is 1059 AUD which is 800 USD. Motherboards start at 600 AUD for DDR5 and decent DDR5 kits start at 400 AUD. For context, 5950x has sold at retail for ~950.
@@Yooshist Bruh we literally pay less tax than these than USA, also our federal government is fucking useless. If I could power a CPU directly from burning coal I would probably qualify for a subsidy so long as I planted a tree.
Something people hardly consider when comparing AMD lineup to Intel, Intel motherboards are still a lot more expensive than AMD counterparts. Their performance chipsets are expensive, their CPUs are power hungry which requires expensive VRM solutions so expect a $100-150 mark up for any motherboard. Meanwhile you can get amazing B550 motherboards for almost half the price of an amazing Z590 board. Alder Lake does nothing to change that so I expect the same. They also need much more expensive cooling solutions (360 high end AIOs) when a $50-70 dual tower heatsink does the job for an AMD part, even at 16 cores.
@@ufsteropolstero6014 This just isn't the case in Australia. High end z590 boards are priced the same as high end b550 here, although the price ceiling on intel boards is much higher usually. Currently I can go buy an 11700k and a mid-range z590 board for 700 AUD, where the 5900x costs ~750 AUD
I don't understand where people got the idea that "no one" cares about power usage on desktop, Intel went completely insane with this mentality last generation. Maybe people want to save a little bit on their electric bill, or they don't want an extra space heater
I really dont want to have to spend 60$ a month on AC just to keep my gaming room below 35C in winter. I used to run a 1090T and a HD6950 "was round 600watts total" with an old plasma 45 "IIRC" inch plasma tv for a monitor "another 3-400 watts." I did not have to turn on a heater all winter and winter is cold here. So an Intel 12900k "upto 250watts stock" With a 3090 yeah it would be about the same.
@ I don't care who is on top. I want competition on the market, as that pushes innovation and we as customers get to profit the most. Also, AMD would be no different if they didn't have competition. I'm currently using a 5900X btw.
@ The 3d cache chips coming are supposed to see 15-25% improvement simply from the cache. Im not that worried that AMD's next gen will compete. The bigger question will be pricing, support and additional features I think.
AMD's current gen is competing. Production benchmarks are yet to come and Alder Lake isn't looking like a clear winner there. And it isn't even a clear winner in some games. Alder Lake really isn't the formidable champion it was made out to be. However, unless AMD drops prices, Alder Lake looks like a much better deal on the mid to low end (assuming the mainboard and DD5 prices are reasonable enough).
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@@darreno1450 Pretty sure it will take a good while until DDR5 prices are in parity with DDR4 just like when Broadwell and DDR4 launched(the reason why I went with Haswell refresh and DDR3 for my current PC, not to mention they only released 2 CPUs for the desktop). Also, current-gen AMD needs to do more than compete, it needs to dominate, look at how long it took for Intel to get off its ass and innovate, it took as long as it did AMD to reach parity in gaming performance.
I think he is more excited about the fat check intel slipped them for this. They show the slide with the Coremark, Sysmark and UL Overall benchmarks for less than 1 SECOND. Highly suspect that they score a 32% and 36% uplift in pugetbench (which Intel has "funded") but only 19% in CoreMark and 15% in SysMark and the UL OVERALL Benchmarks. THAT is definitely the more important slide. This is not looking good for PugetBench and Intel, BUT I am ALSO quite disappointed in Level1 and Wendell for going along with this.
@@excitedbox5705 You've got problems. Who cares if intels' data is wrong. We'll find out in a few days anyways after enbargo lifts. Just enjoy the content.
I wonder if there are going to be any Xeon skus with only efficiency cores in the future, or at least a large number of them compared to performance cores. It would be pretty neat to see something like a 40 E-core Xeon-D processor.
Makes more sense than p-cores, current Xeons using big cores have bad singlethread perfomance compared to the Core series anyway, (Skylake at 5GHz, Cypress Cove at 5GHz, Willow Cove, etc).
There hasnt been much change overall with L1 that us normal ppl could understand. There has been some prefetch changes and stuff "AMD did a huge cache redesign for the 3k series." Where as L3 can end up proving a lot more performance and is a bit easier to the normal ppl to understand "IE MOREEE is better"
@@dralord1307 Exactly. The Zen3D announcement was literally "we slapped some extra L3 on top of existing chips, and got 15-25% improvement in games. You're welcome."
The speed of finding data in cache is generally inversely related to the size of the cache, so L1 cache is going to stay roughly the same size across generations and SKUs to maintain low latency. L2 you're a little less worried about latency so that will vary in size a bit, and L3 is "at least it's not system memory" so make it as large as you have space for.
@@cream_soda one would hope that at some point an improvement of L1 would let you have bigger size same latency or just faster... and even better across all the caches, but my understanding is that this has pretty much hit physical limits very quickly (except for L3 which will keep growing)
@@benjaminoechsli1941 I was tempted, but yeah I'm thinking if Raptor Lake is just an iterative upgrade, I'll buy a 12700 when they go on discount. I'm also banking on Infel being able to manufacture enough of both CPUs... but I'll take that gamble if it means I can save $200.
WHEWWW BOY.... had to maximize my hearing ability while boosting the interpretation level up a couple notches to keep pace with Wendell's talking mode... I'm thinking for future videos he presents I'll just reduce the speed of TH-cam's playback... else I'm gonna NEED more aspirin!
Thanks for this informative entrée. Looking forward for the real tests. Especially thermal envelope and real world performance compared to AMD in the same price bracket.
The Egmont Overture cover is by Kevin Macleod, but it's a Beethoven overture. The piece sounded Beethoven-ish despite not having heard of it, and I was right.
Fist time Intel has really excited me since their first duel core, I hope they retake the top...just to put more pressure on AMD, I want them leapfrogging eachother again.
They show the slide with the Coremark, Sysmark and UL Overall benchmarks for less than 1 SECOND. Highly suspect that they score a 32% and 36% uplift in pugetbench (which Intel has "funded") but only 19% in CoreMark and 15% in SysMark and the UL OVERALL Benchmarks. THAT is definitely the more important slide. This is not looking good for PugetBench and Intel, BUT I am ALSO quite disappointed in Level1 and Wendell for going along with this.
@@dralord1307 Gaming for sure, but that really only matters at 1080P (maybe 1440p). Production is where I have doubts Alder Lake will have a clear lead. The 5950 is a beast and has a lot of head room for tweaks.
While I would've liked to have seen Intel kept in the doghouse for another generation as punishment for their decade of quad cores, I agree that competition is ultimately the better outcome for everyone, so I too am looking forward to seeing what AMD respond with.
@@darreno1450 I fully agree with that. But gonna wait for RL testing before saying which is better. I do think proably Intel will have the lead in games but AMD where you need max thread horsepower
Wowzer... chiplets "kinda like the competition but.." "fighting for the relevance..." sounds like they are not yet making the comeback from AMD's absolute ttub kicking
I'm running Windows 11 just fine on a Ryzen 2700X with an RX 5700XT. I could see it being fine for a few years yet. It's overkill for productivity, and games well enough for me. A move to high efficiency cores instead of only chasing high core, high throughput is welcome in my view. Consuming 150-200W while doing "office work / tech support etc." for 8 hours a day, should be on a high efficiency device such as an ARM Laptop part. I could probably do most things with a browser now.
Been patched completely in hardware. Now AMD is facing its own attacks because they are actually selling CPUs. Previously no security analysts were probing AMD CPUs because in the bulldozer and early Zen days they had like 10% market share
So even the i5 is a 125W part? WTF electricity prices just doubled in Germany to essentially 30 cents+ per kwh. You will spend close to $400 a year running this thing. At 240W a 10 hour day will cost you close to $2 depending on how much time it spends turboing.
None of these CPUs will run over 200W in normal workloads, The i9 12900k will only do around 210W with 100% synthetic loads like cinebench, in real world uses like gaming, nowhere close to that.
I bet ASRock will be back up to their classic shenanigans and will make a board with both DDR4 and DDR5 sockets (of course mutually exclusive), while slightly compromising the performance of both in the process. I don't think it would be a terrible move. You might be building a computer with leftover memory now with a plan to double the capacity later when DDR5 prices normalise. You might for some reason care more about that than about a number of other things.
While for desktop we don't care so much about power consumption, there is still a thermal and die size, or otherwise price, tradeoff where it might makes sense to have efficiency cores.
Waiting for a future where x86 is no more, but by the mean time, I'm going to enjoy looking at those really attractive silicon dies...like seriously, they're so good looking 😍
Man, go go go go Intel! Alder Lake looks like a beast, because it sips a lot of power! But I'm very excited by their improvements and innovation, I wanna see their performance! I hope pc parts cost don't hike very high, and come down to us soon. The price hike writing is on the wall: The M1{,Pro,Max} are expensive bois (and everyone will try and live up the apple performance bet) this new gen from intel is getting even more complex (and normally complexity implies increased cost), and DDR5, new sockets, chipsets (amd and intel), motherboards (amd and intel), supply shortage, market. 😢😢
Great informative video this seems to be the next step x86 needs. With intel supposedly work with TMSC on 3nm Hopefully that will help the power consumption in the future. But I am happy with my 10th gen i5, DDR5 needs to get cheaper, and big little architecture needs to mature. And correction on the video the cpu is the same thickness, the die and stim are thinner and the IHS is thicked to fill the empty space so the standoffs should be fine.
It was more a commentary on what Intel can do because they make small space heaters. Of course they can put up impressive numbers but are also consuming a ton more power. I am glad they are innovating though because it is good for everyone. I just wish it was at a lower power consumption level. 🤷♂️
@@pkt1213 These numbers are impressive? Alder Lake will lose in some games and may likely lose in some production workloads. I fail to see what's so impressive here. Where Alder Lake rules is in the mid to low end where 1080P gaming is still popular. And that's mainly because of the lower price point. For 1440p and higher gaming, the difference is a wash.
I think the mix use of PCIE3.0, 4.0 5.0 has to do with power consumption, I really want to see a HEDT version of this. 28~40 PCI-E 5.0, quad or hex DDR5 channel.8~12 P core and about 12~20 E core.
Re: pcie lanes and chipset - one thunderbolt card to another thunderbolt card would max it out during large file transfer from backup device to backup device. It's nice, but it's not ambitious imho.
Ddr4 2400mhz was almost high end when they released, and cost few times more than today. Its same with Ddr5. Current modules will be meh in a year or two
If the E-cores are better (1%) than Cometlake while taking 1/4th the space then I can easily see a all E-core budget series that games as well as a 10400.
Why not though? 8 e cores are certainly going to boost mutlicore performance vs 2 P cores. These e cores take up 1/4 the die space of a P core while performing better thab 1/4 a P core
You need to do more research then. Efficiency cores aren't just added for power efficiency, but because for the size of 1 P-core you can get 4 E-cores instead (important see below), and we have now found out those cores are similar to 10the gen core performance. So as we've seen in the leaked cinebench benchmarks and now the official Intel slides, Intel is now magically competing with Zen 3 on highly threaded workloads. An insane 50-100% improvement gen over gen in MT. How? E-cores. E-cores are basically an easy way to scale core counts for highly threaded applications. If Intel went with the traditional homogeneous design of only P-cores, Intel would be spending another year trailing AMD in MT performance. 4 E-cores is better than 1 P-Core for MT. I'm sure Intel has the data, but very very very few applications are extremely latency sensitive and need high thread counts. Look at the 5900x and 5950x basically no games have meaningful performance over the 5800x. Games arent actually needing more than 8 cores, most perform extremely well with 6 cores. The apps that do scale extremely well aren't sensitive and will happily use many more cores that are slower individually but overall are faster. So a 8C+8c is better than a 10C and both would have similar die size. For HEDT, productivity and content creation workloads, it actually makes more sense to scale the E-cores than give you more P-cores.
I hope AM5 has the same or more amount of chipset lanes. That is the one thing that made no sense, I have a X570S board with 3 M.2's running off the chipset.
Intel needs to release a 64 bit only CPU. It's long past time ro drop some backward compatibility in hardware/firmware. Software can handle legacy code just fine in VM or Rosetta like translation layer.
20 or 50 cores well that would be amazing with very low impedance of ram access, actually i wish processor with integrated ram , like come make cpu with integrated 64 GB ram !
If this happened before Mx macs, it would be quite news. Now, it seems kind of meh. Ok let's see the benchmarks. But even then I doubt price/performance would be competitive. Now if some one would produce ARM processor similar to Mx and create pc hardware with it ready to run linux, that would get my juices really flowing. Did Intel sponsor this video? There is strange hype/real data ratio in it.
In this case, intel's alder lake is much more a response to apple's M1. And it does not look very good for intel, to convince apple to come back to them. Alder Lake is hardly any faster than apple's new M1 iterations.
I want to go back to ARM. I owned the original Acorn in the late 80's-90's Please Obi-AMD Kenobi, can we have Zen ARM cpu? We know AMD has design license.
Looking at intels graphs they have about a 5% performance lead with ddr5 on windows 11 vs amd on windows 10. They are on a 7nm process for the first time which is cool.
How do these power figures compare to the conventional TDP figures? I.e., how would Intel's 100W CPU compare to an AMD's 100W TDP CPU, power draw wise?
@@__aceofspades Intel's own marketing slides states that. The K models will run at PL2 by default, that is 241W for the i9 and 150W for the i5. MCE is standard behavior for 12 gen.
"Nobody cares about power efficiency on a desktop" --------> THANK YOU!!!!!!! I'm skipping this generation and I'm done with Intel, I could even use their employee discount to get something but there is nothing in the past 4 generations worth getting including alder lake.
I bet AMD is ready to smack Intel down. AMD's technical edge is real and they know how to survive in an austere financial climate. It has been a long time since Intel was hungry.
“Eight-oh-eighty-six” processor…oh, such a young blood. Everyone, and I mean everyone (except Jimmy Carter) pronounced it “eighty-eighty-six.” Though there may have been some Canadians who said “eight-zed-eighty-six.” And let us not even go to the Québécois’ pronunciations!
You are dreaming if a 240 AIO or a 360 AIO will be able to cool AT Stock turbo boost at 240 watts for more than the time it will take the system to boot.... You will NOT be able to boost above 4.6 4.7 Ghz if Your room is cool on normal workloads. You will have to overclock the the cpu at 4.8 , with a 240 and accept almost 90 Degrees temperatures.
@@ryanwallace983 The chip is actually smaller than the previous 2 gens of 900series chips. The IHS is bigger but you dont need to cover every part of it for good cooling as long as you cover the die its self. The major problem is the IHS is shorter. A lot of Older AIO's cant put enough pressure to get a good mount.
There is a "Big Problem" not a lil one. Some games will not work with it. New games can be patched but older ones? Intel says there are some games that do not work. Game Breaking?
Ian at Anand asked them. The only games that have issues are ones with old DRM that arent being updated. Out of the top 200 Denuvo DRM games tested only 20 had issues, and Intel was working to fix those
부자되는법페인트 0초 전 부자되는법페인트 1초 전 👌👌좋아요베리나이스굿입니다요,아주훌륭하고 정성이 가득한게 너무 감동적이면서 여러가지 생각이 머리속을 스쳐지나가는군요,,이렇게 열심히하고 열심히 사는것이 아주 훌륭해 보인다는 감동적인삶이 계속되길 바랍니다요,,,👌 👍👍😍😍💦💦☘☘🙌🙌
Intel rep said on Reddit that it perform pretty well, Linux has better native support for heterogeneous CPUs, while Windows was prioritized with Thread Director because it needed more help. Thread Director for Linux confirmed for 2022
![[Part 4] หนุ่มน้อยรักคุณย่ายิ่งกว่าใคร ไม่ว่าใครก็รังแกดูถูกท่านไม่ได้!! #โลกการละคร](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/sLsBxw99FR0/mqdefault.jpg)
Out of all the coverage I've watch so far on this announcement/embargo lift I've enjoyed this one the most. You guys are great from your writers to your editors to the faces.
Love their faces
They show the slide with the Coremark, Sysmark and UL Overall benchmarks for less than 3 SECONDS. Highly suspect that they score a 32% and 36% uplift in pugetbench (which intel bribed to rig their test) but only 19% in CoreMark and 15% in SysMark and the UL OVERALL Benchmarks. THAT is definitely the more important slide. This is not looking good for PugetBench and Intel, BUT I am ALSO quite disappointed in Level1 and Wendell for going along with this.
@@excitedbox5705 lmfao LMFAO if you knew anything you would know to wait for these guys to get their own review up before paying attention to the slides. Yes they give a good idea of what's coming but how have slides gone for the last ten years? They use one specific computation and then judge their whole processor off of it and it's not realistic. Just like it's not realistic for you to think most/any of this. You don't have many friends do you?
@@LoveToMix dude they get so excited or so dejected and I enjoy these guys a lot
LOL to many lies, AMD got the 3rd patch 2 weeks ago, 11 performs exactly the same as 10 now,
Wasn't AMD Opteron the processor that made sure x86 wouldn't go quietly into the night?
Intel at the time tried to kill off x86 to switch to Itanium until AMD with the Opteron kept x86 alive by updating it to 64 bit and which Intel then licensed the rights to use shortly after, pretty much abandoning all hope for their own Itanium architecture.
Itanium was a nightmare way of trying to create a closed system of 64-bit processing. It had issues that killed it even without it lacking older x86 support.
@@somehow_not_helpfulATcrap There was plans for high end IA64 desktops. For normal desktops Intel planned to continue using IA32. Intel didn't see a future for the laptop market at the time as they were already developing, and released a couple years later, the IA32 based Intel Atom for netbooks.
@@SaturnusDK 'Intel didn't see a future in the Laptop market' just like how they didn't see a future in the iPhone?
Whoever was leading Intel back then really had amazing foresight /s
@@carl8790 They saw a future for netbooks, or what we today would call ultrabooks, so in a sense they were on the right track. They just severely overestimated how powerful their IA32 Atom processors would end up being compared to Core architecture based chips they developed as a direct response to AMD64.
@@SaturnusDK oh I didn't even know that. That's even more hilarious. Thanks for the history lesson.
LTT pointed out that Intel’s numbers were for Windows 11, which AMD has had problems with. Will be interesting to see the comparison once the AMD Windows 11 support gets up to snuff.
@Matthew Shields some testing here th-cam.com/video/8hIbG5cTWUs/w-d-xo.html
Its already in windows and the patch worked so yes AMD is up to speed. But that matters not to performance enthusiasts concerning. Intel threw everyone a curve ball, Intel has 2 stock configurations. Depending on your cooling . 125 watt PL1/241 watt PL2 they are both listed as stock setting , I want Full Turbo 241 watts , GPUs will be over 450 watts soon and are over 300 watts now, So skip the song and dance , Stock is what intel says it is not AMD fanbios. This is going to be fun . The left will cry and cry time and time again.
Someone tested performance after the patch and saw barely any change, within margin of error. Intel told reviewers ahead of time they used the pre-patch AMD numbers because AMD only patched it a few days before the event, which didnt give Intel enough time to do benchmarks again. Also its kind of AMD's fault they took over 3 weeks to fix an issue for windows 11, while Intel didnt have issues.
I don't think it's AMDs fault windows 11 is a rushed public beta test that is being pushed out way too early. Did microsoft not even bother testing with an AMD CPU?
@@__aceofspades since when is a windows issue on AMD to fix?
You guys really should use Beethoven as background music more often :D
Its not Beethoven but ok (see description) :D
@@DoctorrMetal This is most certainly Beethoven's Egmont overture. I love the piece to bits. Along with the Coriolanus overture.
@@DoctorrMetal it's beethoven's egmont overture (which is in the public domain), performed by Kevin Macleod. :)
Level1Techs - The thinking mans TH-cam channel
Love the innovation at play.. but I've got zero regrets about the 5900x upgrade kit I just got in yesterday. Will stick with twelve performance cores and be happy with 'em.
You will be very happy and the VFM factor is great. Same platform adopted 5 months back. Will run on it till late 2023. But am excited that Intel is back. Once Mid generation these products will have great pricing after the intial flush and hype. I hear that the mobos and ram will put a bigger dent on your budget allocation. So we may have to wait till next year to see reasonable pricing especially in items like ram. Hope we will see availability issues get better next year. Good to see the CPU manufacturers really innovating.
Yeah no regrets, great choice for the next maybe 5+ years?
@@SianaGearz Well it's replacing a 3770k from 2013 that's been running every app and game I wanted it to at 4.3ghz.. I'm aiming for a bit more than 5 years :)
Pricing in Australia is munted, i9 is 1059 AUD which is 800 USD. Motherboards start at 600 AUD for DDR5 and decent DDR5 kits start at 400 AUD. For context, 5950x has sold at retail for ~950.
And 5800x is probably almost the same if you ignore multi core to save even more
Probably thank your crazy government for that….
@@Yooshist Bruh we literally pay less tax than these than USA, also our federal government is fucking useless. If I could power a CPU directly from burning coal I would probably qualify for a subsidy so long as I planted a tree.
Something people hardly consider when comparing AMD lineup to Intel, Intel motherboards are still a lot more expensive than AMD counterparts. Their performance chipsets are expensive, their CPUs are power hungry which requires expensive VRM solutions so expect a $100-150 mark up for any motherboard. Meanwhile you can get amazing B550 motherboards for almost half the price of an amazing Z590 board. Alder Lake does nothing to change that so I expect the same. They also need much more expensive cooling solutions (360 high end AIOs) when a $50-70 dual tower heatsink does the job for an AMD part, even at 16 cores.
@@ufsteropolstero6014 This just isn't the case in Australia. High end z590 boards are priced the same as high end b550 here, although the price ceiling on intel boards is much higher usually. Currently I can go buy an 11700k and a mid-range z590 board for 700 AUD, where the 5900x costs ~750 AUD
Wendell is a very poetic nerd.
quoting sifi movies brings all ladies to the yard
And you got my view just with Eldritch Horror title. *golf clap* Well done.
I don't understand where people got the idea that "no one" cares about power usage on desktop, Intel went completely insane with this mentality last generation. Maybe people want to save a little bit on their electric bill, or they don't want an extra space heater
Because an 8k monitor sucks 400w constantly.
I really dont want to have to spend 60$ a month on AC just to keep my gaming room below 35C in winter.
I used to run a 1090T and a HD6950 "was round 600watts total" with an old plasma 45 "IIRC" inch plasma tv for a monitor "another 3-400 watts." I did not have to turn on a heater all winter and winter is cold here. So an Intel 12900k "upto 250watts stock" With a 3090 yeah it would be about the same.
3090 uses over 400W of power. I dont care if my CPU uses 150W, its meaningless when my GPU is significantly worse
@@dralord1307 1kw/h and you would be bankrupt where I live
looking forward to your review/benchmark findings..
I enjoy your smooth calm delivery and thorough explanations. Keep up the good work!
Egmont overture, be still my heart
Alder Lake looks exciting from what we've seen so far, but I am really looking forward to how Raptor Lake will impact the market.
You mean Ryzen 4, because if it can't compete the market will become just Intel once again.
@ I don't care who is on top. I want competition on the market, as that pushes innovation and we as customers get to profit the most. Also, AMD would be no different if they didn't have competition. I'm currently using a 5900X btw.
@ The 3d cache chips coming are supposed to see 15-25% improvement simply from the cache. Im not that worried that AMD's next gen will compete. The bigger question will be pricing, support and additional features I think.
AMD's current gen is competing. Production benchmarks are yet to come and Alder Lake isn't looking like a clear winner there. And it isn't even a clear winner in some games. Alder Lake really isn't the formidable champion it was made out to be. However, unless AMD drops prices, Alder Lake looks like a much better deal on the mid to low end (assuming the mainboard and DD5 prices are reasonable enough).
@@darreno1450 Pretty sure it will take a good while until DDR5 prices are in parity with DDR4 just like when Broadwell and DDR4 launched(the reason why I went with Haswell refresh and DDR3 for my current PC, not to mention they only released 2 CPUs for the desktop). Also, current-gen AMD needs to do more than compete, it needs to dominate, look at how long it took for Intel to get off its ass and innovate, it took as long as it did AMD to reach parity in gaming performance.
Remember Intel says XMP is overclocking and invalidates your warranty
Not that I don't appreciate the effort to make these video's, but this 2 phase embargo nonsense needs to stop.
Is this a problem you have with L1 or with intel?
@@adammills4099 Intel's a big offender, but it's an industry wide problem.
Generally we agree but not everyone is aware of the new p core/e core thing and that's worth talking about now so the launch vid isn't so long
As if the embargo nonsense changes the end product. It'll still be as good or crap with or without this bs.
@@adammills4099 Intel specifically. Level 1 made the best of it to explain the tech, rather than just becoming part of the Intel extended PR machine
Haven't seen Wendel this excited in a long time
I think he is more excited about the fat check intel slipped them for this. They show the slide with the Coremark, Sysmark and UL Overall benchmarks for less than 1 SECOND. Highly suspect that they score a 32% and 36% uplift in pugetbench (which Intel has "funded") but only 19% in CoreMark and 15% in SysMark and the UL OVERALL Benchmarks. THAT is definitely the more important slide. This is not looking good for PugetBench and Intel, BUT I am ALSO quite disappointed in Level1 and Wendell for going along with this.
@@excitedbox5705 You've got problems. Who cares if intels' data is wrong. We'll find out in a few days anyways after enbargo lifts. Just enjoy the content.
I wonder if there are going to be any Xeon skus with only efficiency cores in the future, or at least a large number of them compared to performance cores. It would be pretty neat to see something like a 40 E-core Xeon-D processor.
Makes more sense than p-cores, current Xeons using big cores have bad singlethread perfomance compared to the Core series anyway, (Skylake at 5GHz, Cypress Cove at 5GHz, Willow Cove, etc).
No picture of Cthulhu?
“We can’t be consumed by our petty differences…”
Cthulhu rises in the background.
I thought about it, but I didn't want to cause any insanity since it could effect our views. ~Editor Autumn
Is there a reason why they don't talk about L1 cache anymore?
There hasnt been much change overall with L1 that us normal ppl could understand. There has been some prefetch changes and stuff "AMD did a huge cache redesign for the 3k series." Where as L3 can end up proving a lot more performance and is a bit easier to the normal ppl to understand "IE MOREEE is better"
@@dralord1307 Exactly. The Zen3D announcement was literally "we slapped some extra L3 on top of existing chips, and got 15-25% improvement in games. You're welcome."
The speed of finding data in cache is generally inversely related to the size of the cache, so L1 cache is going to stay roughly the same size across generations and SKUs to maintain low latency. L2 you're a little less worried about latency so that will vary in size a bit, and L3 is "at least it's not system memory" so make it as large as you have space for.
@@cream_soda one would hope that at some point an improvement of L1 would let you have bigger size same latency or just faster... and even better across all the caches, but my understanding is that this has pretty much hit physical limits very quickly (except for L3 which will keep growing)
Fantastic! I'll wait until next year.
Smart. This is exciting, but I'll let others be the beta testers.
@@benjaminoechsli1941 I was tempted, but yeah I'm thinking if Raptor Lake is just an iterative upgrade, I'll buy a 12700 when they go on discount. I'm also banking on Infel being able to manufacture enough of both CPUs... but I'll take that gamble if it means I can save $200.
WHEWWW BOY.... had to maximize my hearing ability while boosting the interpretation level up a couple notches to keep pace with Wendell's talking mode... I'm thinking for future videos he presents I'll just reduce the speed of TH-cam's playback... else I'm gonna NEED more aspirin!
Thanks for this informative entrée. Looking forward for the real tests. Especially thermal envelope and real world performance compared to AMD in the same price bracket.
I typically already have two custom tuned RAM profiles I use, so XMP 3.0 will be wonderful for me.
The Egmont Overture cover is by Kevin Macleod, but it's a Beethoven overture. The piece sounded Beethoven-ish despite not having heard of it, and I was right.
Fist time Intel has really excited me since their first duel core, I hope they retake the top...just to put more pressure on AMD, I want them leapfrogging eachother again.
The 12k series will beat the current R5k series. The question is power usage, total system costs, and how the next gen AMD chips turn out.
They show the slide with the Coremark, Sysmark and UL Overall benchmarks for less than 1 SECOND. Highly suspect that they score a 32% and 36% uplift in pugetbench (which Intel has "funded") but only 19% in CoreMark and 15% in SysMark and the UL OVERALL Benchmarks. THAT is definitely the more important slide. This is not looking good for PugetBench and Intel, BUT I am ALSO quite disappointed in Level1 and Wendell for going along with this.
@@dralord1307 Gaming for sure, but that really only matters at 1080P (maybe 1440p). Production is where I have doubts Alder Lake will have a clear lead. The 5950 is a beast and has a lot of head room for tweaks.
While I would've liked to have seen Intel kept in the doghouse for another generation as punishment for their decade of quad cores, I agree that competition is ultimately the better outcome for everyone, so I too am looking forward to seeing what AMD respond with.
@@darreno1450 I fully agree with that. But gonna wait for RL testing before saying which is better. I do think proably Intel will have the lead in games but AMD where you need max thread horsepower
Wowzer... chiplets "kinda like the competition but.." "fighting for the relevance..." sounds like they are not yet making the comeback from AMD's absolute ttub kicking
I'm running Windows 11 just fine on a Ryzen 2700X with an RX 5700XT. I could see it being fine for a few years yet. It's overkill for productivity, and games well enough for me. A move to high efficiency cores instead of only chasing high core, high throughput is welcome in my view. Consuming 150-200W while doing "office work / tech support etc." for 8 hours a day, should be on a high efficiency device such as an ARM Laptop part. I could probably do most things with a browser now.
Your production quality is fire these days 👍
Hey Wendell can do virtualization testing too to see if the efficiency core are good
how's Spectre and Meltdown?
According to Wikipedia and it's source, Spectre and Meltdown are already resolved.
Been patched completely in hardware. Now AMD is facing its own attacks because they are actually selling CPUs. Previously no security analysts were probing AMD CPUs because in the bulldozer and early Zen days they had like 10% market share
The power levels you say. Is it over 9000?
- Vegeta, what does the Wattmeter say about his power usage?
- It's over 9000!
over 300 at least. Now add in a 3090 oc'd and we are OVER 9000!
here there be moderate upgrades to mobile computing battery life... not much else--more than likely
_engagement_
So even the i5 is a 125W part? WTF electricity prices just doubled in Germany to essentially 30 cents+ per kwh. You will spend close to $400 a year running this thing. At 240W a 10 hour day will cost you close to $2 depending on how much time it spends turboing.
The K models will all run at full boost by default. Basically now MCE is stock and the i9 is practically a 241W cpu, with the i5 being 150W.
Move to France that uses nuclear energy and the price for kwh is literally half.
It will run at like 20W for normal office use. The 240W is only hit when rendering and similar heavy all core tasks.
None of these CPUs will run over 200W in normal workloads, The i9 12900k will only do around 210W with 100% synthetic loads like cinebench, in real world uses like gaming, nowhere close to that.
@@mrfrenzy. Only overclocked with PL2 power limit.
Turbo Boost is not infinite.
Sorry Intel, nobody wants... *clears throat*... "glued together CPUs" ;-)
How the turns have tabled :V
While Intel will use chiplets in their 2023 CPU lineup (Meteor Lake), Alder Lake uses a monolithic die, so your comment does not make sense!
I bet ASRock will be back up to their classic shenanigans and will make a board with both DDR4 and DDR5 sockets (of course mutually exclusive), while slightly compromising the performance of both in the process.
I don't think it would be a terrible move. You might be building a computer with leftover memory now with a plan to double the capacity later when DDR5 prices normalise. You might for some reason care more about that than about a number of other things.
This is an excellently put together video
While for desktop we don't care so much about power consumption, there is still a thermal and die size, or otherwise price, tradeoff where it might makes sense to have efficiency cores.
I never would have guessed Windell is into classical music.
Great, I'll buy this tech in two years time when all the bugs are sorted and a decent GPU will be available at MSRP.
Intel, Independence Day, Interstellar. Aye Aye Captain.
Waiting for a future where x86 is no more, but by the mean time, I'm going to enjoy looking at those really attractive silicon dies...like seriously, they're so good looking 😍
What makes x86 bad?
@@vyor8837 legacy
@@carl8790 what about the legacy? What about having old instructions makes it slower?
Man, go go go go Intel! Alder Lake looks like a beast, because it sips a lot of power! But I'm very excited by their improvements and innovation, I wanna see their performance! I hope pc parts cost don't hike very high, and come down to us soon. The price hike writing is on the wall: The M1{,Pro,Max} are expensive bois (and everyone will try and live up the apple performance bet) this new gen from intel is getting even more complex (and normally complexity implies increased cost), and DDR5, new sockets, chipsets (amd and intel), motherboards (amd and intel), supply shortage, market. 😢😢
9:30 how it can promises lower latency? are you drunk?
if ddr5-6000c36 has 69ns in aida
while DDR4 3733c14 has 40ns in Gear1
can someone point me to the videos talking about the linux scheduler?
Great informative video this seems to be the next step x86 needs. With intel supposedly work with TMSC on 3nm Hopefully that will help the power consumption in the future. But I am happy with my 10th gen i5, DDR5 needs to get cheaper, and big little architecture needs to mature. And correction on the video the cpu is the same thickness, the die and stim are thinner and the IHS is thicked to fill the empty space so the standoffs should be fine.
nice independence day reference at 2:13 lmaoo
not sure its appropriate to use on a company known to do everything in their power to "oppress" the competition, with bribes, "marketing funds" etc
Imagine how fast a 5900x or 5950x would be running at 241 watts?
That is like a 5950X PBO + a 5600x
It would, in fact, be nowhere as fast, since Zen power scaling is bleh.
It was more a commentary on what Intel can do because they make small space heaters. Of course they can put up impressive numbers but are also consuming a ton more power.
I am glad they are innovating though because it is good for everyone. I just wish it was at a lower power consumption level. 🤷♂️
@@pkt1213 These numbers are impressive? Alder Lake will lose in some games and may likely lose in some production workloads. I fail to see what's so impressive here.
Where Alder Lake rules is in the mid to low end where 1080P gaming is still popular. And that's mainly because of the lower price point. For 1440p and higher gaming, the difference is a wash.
🤣 Everyone is a critic when you are just trying to poke fun at intel.
@@pkt1213 or because their architecture scales with power better? That still remains an advantage even if you can't see it.
I think the mix use of PCIE3.0, 4.0 5.0 has to do with power consumption, I really want to see a HEDT version of this. 28~40 PCI-E 5.0, quad or hex DDR5 channel.8~12 P core and about 12~20 E core.
Re: pcie lanes and chipset - one thunderbolt card to another thunderbolt card would max it out during large file transfer from backup device to backup device. It's nice, but it's not ambitious imho.
Ddr4 2400mhz was almost high end when they released, and cost few times more than today. Its same with Ddr5. Current modules will be meh in a year or two
If the E-cores are better (1%) than Cometlake while taking 1/4th the space then I can easily see a all E-core budget series that games as well as a 10400.
M1 Is still more than 4X the memory bandwidth than Alder....and 10X better than a 5950X....
Daddy? is Kuthulu here?
Only on Linux son... Only in Linux.
I'm not being persuaded, on the desktop, to prefer 8P+8E over 10P+0E. That's what we're being sold here.
Why not though? 8 e cores are certainly going to boost mutlicore performance vs 2 P cores.
These e cores take up 1/4 the die space of a P core while performing better thab 1/4 a P core
You need to do more research then.
Efficiency cores aren't just added for power efficiency, but because for the size of 1 P-core you can get 4 E-cores instead (important see below), and we have now found out those cores are similar to 10the gen core performance.
So as we've seen in the leaked cinebench benchmarks and now the official Intel slides, Intel is now magically competing with Zen 3 on highly threaded workloads. An insane 50-100% improvement gen over gen in MT. How? E-cores.
E-cores are basically an easy way to scale core counts for highly threaded applications.
If Intel went with the traditional homogeneous design of only P-cores, Intel would be spending another year trailing AMD in MT performance. 4 E-cores is better than 1 P-Core for MT.
I'm sure Intel has the data, but very very very few applications are extremely latency sensitive and need high thread counts. Look at the 5900x and 5950x basically no games have meaningful performance over the 5800x. Games arent actually needing more than 8 cores, most perform extremely well with 6 cores. The apps that do scale extremely well aren't sensitive and will happily use many more cores that are slower individually but overall are faster.
So a 8C+8c is better than a 10C and both would have similar die size.
For HEDT, productivity and content creation workloads, it actually makes more sense to scale the E-cores than give you more P-cores.
I hope AM5 has the same or more amount of chipset lanes. That is the one thing that made no sense, I have a X570S board with 3 M.2's running off the chipset.
What about hard realtime scheduling? If you build it in the hardware it is probably not realtime so its useless for realtime tasks ?
Intel needs to release a 64 bit only CPU. It's long past time ro drop some backward compatibility in hardware/firmware. Software can handle legacy code just fine in VM or Rosetta like translation layer.
Look at the claims for the 11900k over the 1099k the IPC claim was 19% then as well
Wait, are you planning to burn down the house of Parliament? (does anyone outside of the UK know about Guy Fawkes?)
Hell yeah we do, guy fawkes masks are iconic
Look at V for vendetta
Edit: tbh I don’t know the specifics of the gunpowder plot but I know of it
Lol was going to say naw they either only know of V For Vendetta or Anonymous.
@@Dan-Simms You know, a lot of brits moved to other parts of the world right.
@@dralord1307 the joke was that non Britt's don't know history.
It's amazing that brits know about it, the scheme masterminded by a genius who used the fake name of John Johnson
20 or 50 cores well that would be amazing with very low impedance of ram access, actually i wish processor with integrated ram , like come make cpu with integrated 64 GB ram !
At last, I have been waiting for an upgrade for my 6600K that made some kind of sense...
Intel should hire the one who write this narrative
So the new Intel space heaters are out, they at lest look promising. But I think the average user will have issues pairing it with any current Nvidia.
Dear Intel,
Please give us a 10 module CPU of all 4 E-core modules (or 9 if at least ONE P core is required). distributed computing calls!
If this happened before Mx macs, it would be quite news. Now, it seems kind of meh. Ok let's see the benchmarks. But even then I doubt price/performance would be competitive.
Now if some one would produce ARM processor similar to Mx and create pc hardware with it ready to run linux, that would get my juices really flowing.
Did Intel sponsor this video? There is strange hype/real data ratio in it.
A 32c/32t (0+32) small core would be nice
I will say it again, thanks AMD for competition!
In this case, intel's alder lake is much more a response to apple's M1. And it does not look very good for intel, to convince apple to come back to them. Alder Lake is hardly any faster than apple's new M1 iterations.
its not "literally" a horse of a different colour....that is a "FIGURE" of speech...also no idea why the IHS is thicker
Is this gonna be good like 1366 originally, or a big ol’ whiff like Bulldozer?
Aldritch Horror!!! AHHHHHHH!!!!!
Remember remember the 4th of November
I want to go back to ARM. I owned the original Acorn in the late 80's-90's Please Obi-AMD Kenobi, can we have Zen ARM cpu? We know AMD has design license.
Is that rick from rick and morty in the background or the mad scientist from robot chicken?
I realized that I'm an AMD fanboy when I watched this video and immediately got excited about how AMD was going to beat this
Its like rooting for Huion over Wacom, who had a monopoly on drawing tablets for eons.
Same here, want them to retake the top, so AMD's next product will be better.
More cores, less price. I doubt they have a big-little concept. And sure they have PCIe5 and DDR5 at one time but currently this doesn't matter.
Looking at intels graphs they have about a 5% performance lead with ddr5 on windows 11 vs amd on windows 10. They are on a 7nm process for the first time which is cool.
@@llothar68 They are going to 5nm no? And Lisa said there are arch changes too.
How do these power figures compare to the conventional TDP figures? I.e., how would Intel's 100W CPU compare to an AMD's 100W TDP CPU, power draw wise?
In short a CPU like a 5950X tops out 142W stock, the i9-12900K is 241W stock.
@@SolarianStrike Not even close to true.
@@__aceofspades Intel's own marketing slides states that. The K models will run at PL2 by default, that is 241W for the i9 and 150W for the i5. MCE is standard behavior for 12 gen.
In b4 severe scheduling issues with everything except Win Calc
pretty sure we can get benchmarks off all the one newegg shipped lol
"Nobody cares about power efficiency on a desktop" --------> THANK YOU!!!!!!!
I'm skipping this generation and I'm done with Intel, I could even use their employee discount to get something but there is nothing in the past 4 generations worth getting including alder lake.
I bet AMD is ready to smack Intel down. AMD's technical edge is real and they know how to survive in an austere financial climate. It has been a long time since Intel was hungry.
“Eight-oh-eighty-six” processor…oh, such a young blood. Everyone, and I mean everyone (except Jimmy Carter) pronounced it “eighty-eighty-six.” Though there may have been some Canadians who said “eight-zed-eighty-six.” And let us not even go to the Québécois’ pronunciations!
Debian shouldn't let intel use their spiral.
thread director only works in windows 11.......... greaaaaaat :(
All praise the all wise Alder Lake.
Thanks for the intel…on intel😀
overhead is overhead
Maybe I'm not paying attention enough but what nm is this chip? Its not still 12 is it?
Its Intel 7. which is equivalent to TSMC 7nm. This is a brand new node for Desktops, Intel was previously on 14nm
Thanks for the reply! That's good! Intel's back in the game! Oh right 14nm, my mistake!
I'm so excited for this. This will be my first build since Haswell. I hope my 240 AIO will work. Got to check the Intel brackets.
It won’t, the socket is soooo much bigger
Even if a compatible bracket is made, I doubt it will perform the way you want
You are dreaming if a 240 AIO or a 360 AIO will be able to cool AT Stock turbo boost at 240 watts for more than the time it will take the system to boot.... You will NOT be able to boost above 4.6 4.7 Ghz if Your room is cool on normal workloads.
You will have to overclock the the cpu at 4.8 , with a 240 and accept almost 90 Degrees temperatures.
@@ryanwallace983 The chip is actually smaller than the previous 2 gens of 900series chips. The IHS is bigger but you dont need to cover every part of it for good cooling as long as you cover the die its self. The major problem is the IHS is shorter. A lot of Older AIO's cant put enough pressure to get a good mount.
@@AbyNeon Completely wrong and you clearly didnt read the articles or watch this video about power
@@__aceofspades 240 will NOT be enough for a 12900k, suck it up and move on.
CLTHULU WE SUMMON THEE!
There is a "Big Problem" not a lil one. Some games will not work with it. New games can be patched but older ones? Intel says there are some games that do not work. Game Breaking?
Ian at Anand asked them. The only games that have issues are ones with old DRM that arent being updated. Out of the top 200 Denuvo DRM games tested only 20 had issues, and Intel was working to fix those
So basically Intel "glued-together" some small cores to their big cores.
Next Gen Hyperthreading.
Which core is the NSA / CIA core?
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👌👌좋아요베리나이스굿입니다요,아주훌륭하고 정성이 가득한게 너무 감동적이면서 여러가지 생각이 머리속을 스쳐지나가는군요,,이렇게 열심히하고 열심히 사는것이 아주 훌륭해 보인다는 감동적인삶이 계속되길 바랍니다요,,,👌
👍👍😍😍💦💦☘☘🙌🙌
Wondering how these will perform for Linux...
Intel rep said on Reddit that it perform pretty well, Linux has better native support for heterogeneous CPUs, while Windows was prioritized with Thread Director because it needed more help. Thread Director for Linux confirmed for 2022
Dang. I now have this odd desire to high five Will Smith.
very nice music
Omg thank you
prediction - efficiency good. performance -meh
What's his power level?
It's over 9000!