Demon wasn't great TBC for PvP and PvE. But i master in pve even in raid stop tier 3 not gear but for illidan not too bad. Now, Demonology can used for both in Woltk I happy :D!
MY MAN! Another GREAT video, i cannot stress enough how u basically got the monopoly here on educational PVP WOTLK videos! AND UR DOING THEM WELL! So please take this momentum, take all the inspiration from the comments for the next videos, like ive seen the 'disecting arena match' idea alot and i myself would really appreciate that too, i wanna really try hard with the mates in Wotlk and i NEED your channel brother!
For ret paladins, arena is definitely easier in WoTLK lol it’s only harder if you currently play a class that doesn’t get much of a buff like rogue for example or, if ur playing paladin then you will have a much easier time in wrath, for mages it’s also much easier even though it’s easy for them now, I suppose it depends who your partner is and who you’re up against really, all I know is this wrath is harder than original wrath due to the use of gold for boosting, so you basically need a good partner and connection or gold buying your way if you want a higher rating, which is why I suggest they drop the rating expectations for the gear then that will stop people bothering to buy boosts, id even suggest LFR to stop people earning through GDKP too, the people who complain at these suggestions are the people who earn gold from them or use gold for them, there’s no other logical reason for anyone to be against it, Asmongold hates LFR coz it ruined his guild, the guild that basically carried him and made his wow life easy and he got first choices and would gear much faster than other people so these types of people get angry when casuals who don’t have much time can get decent gear ⚙️
Hey man, nice video. One thing I may suggest regarding paladins. I think talking about the "preg" spec is very important as it can be extremely dominating against certain comps. Definitely something you will queue into
I’ve covered preg in multiple videos, paladins have the same CD’s to watch generally regardless of spec. D sac, hand of sac, bop, bubble, hoj, freedom. So i didn’t feel like saying that 4 times
I think its important to mention the slow removal you get from Earthbind Totem as Enhance. Each pulse or totem drop will dispell all slow effects on yourself and your team within a certain range.
TBC: shadowstep & kick a heal : you've won the game WoTLK: survive all burst, instant trinket CC, drag pet over hunter trap to not lose game, win against arena glads who have played this expac for 10+ years
Can you make a S5 tier list? My buddy and I are stuck on playing DK/Warrior of Rsham/Hpal. We plan on playing both eventually, but I think we would like to push the more viable one in S5 first to get a jump on gearing.
It was easier back in the day, but you see people have improved alot, A 2400 player in original wotlk would stuggle at 1500-1600 mmr today. Also back in the day you had high participations, so lots of Bad/newish players even at 2k+ rating, i was one of them, Started playing Pvp seriously in Wotlk and Got Arena master, Gladiator, and pretty much every arena achievemet available at that time. But lets be real, When i look back i was not even that good. I basicaly Did stuff even 1600 players do today, and it was enought. Peple were just bad/still kinda new to arena/rated pvp at that Era. All you needed was everything Keybinded, and If you had some good focus macros too oh boy you were already Gladiator material. Now everybody has that even at 1600 rating. Ye Basicaly If your average player now Which is 1500-1700 rating That is Pretty much where 50% people who play arena are would travel back in time To Wotlk and Played Against PLayers in that Era that Guy would be Blizzcon Champion God pretty much, Im not joking.
Prot warrior can be useful with a non ARP/Crit set, cannot forget about the block value shield slam one shots. Wont be as good as it was on live since im assuming the patch we will be playing on is 3.3.5a but can still easily surprise people. Also really want to see how well a lesser known Arms/Prot hybrid revenge spam spec works against melee comps.
Hey Earpugs love ur vids! As a tbc arena fan, WOTLK burst seems insanely overtuned, at least on warmane? Rogue, sham, boomkin, ench, lock, hunt etc can all 1 shot ppl. Just seems a bit less strategic/nuanced than tbc arena where games are less bursty and requires more setup to kill? Just my initial experience from adapting to wotlk pvp. Makes it slighty less enjoyable and a bit more nobrain imo at least. (feel free to let me know how much of a 1500 noob i am in the comments lmao)
most specs are viable with the right comp. for example feral rogue is super good. resto ret/war is good aswell, list goes on. but yea the limited viability is maybe only downside to tbc
Wotlk absolutely has comps that can kill Someone in 2 seconds for sure. The difference between the two is that TBC’s damage is much more RNG based. Take turbo cleave in TBC vs turbo in wrath for example. WF totem no longer gives random 1 shots and warriors dont have RNG mace stuns. The random 100-0 that TBC turbo can do in TBC doesn’t happen in wrath since WF is flat melee haste now. Turbo still deletes people don’t get me wrong but they will never 100-0 in .3 seconds like they can in TBC. Also for comp viability while sure every class can play maybe 1 or 2 comps to high rating tons of specs are restricted and certain ones not even viable. AKA fire mages, arcane mages, boomkins, rets are only viable with WF, prot wars etc. even the viable specs can play at best 3 comps. In wrath literally every healer has 10+ comps that are insanely strong let alone the dozens and dozens of still viable comps that maybe aren’t super S+ tier.
its a good and interesting guide, my question is more, what phase is this? i guess it must be endgame, would like to know how the classes are at season 1
This video has nothing to do with phases, it's general knowledge and applies to week 1 of season 5 in to the last week of season 8. It's applicable for the entire expansion.
@@Earpugs yes i thought that too, but can a boomy for example right in the first season really do that much pressure? i thought casters needed alot of gear to scale, but still i would like to know what the best classes are at phase 1 in pvp, if you do a guide for each phase it would be nice and give you also more content to talk about.
Hey there Earpugs, i watched a lot of your tierlists and you always ranked warrior Aa a S+ class. But isnt warrior pretty weak in the early season especially without armorpen? So if u pick warrior do you have to wait for like TOC to shine?
A random hpala with an arms counters most double dps teams. That makes Arms top tier for the entire expansion. Clothies which are super strong later on, are giga squish early on, so it balances out.
@@dirtydard4870 my dude, wtf does "vs priest 1v1 sure" mean? Priest will play with a rogue, if the warr tries to tunnel the priest, the rogue will absolutely skullfuck his healer, even if its a paladin. Priest doesnt get pressured by warrior this early on, the rogue/mage dont have to peel at all. You have no idea about early wrath meta, not sure why ur coming at me.
You didn't mention that Shamantistic Rage for enhancement shamans is reduced by 50% mana gained and 50% cooldown (15 sec 30% damage reduction 15% mana on 1.5m cd). Also fire mage getting instant pyros could be something to look out for :P
kinda random, but do you have like a tierlist for classes in world pvp? or what classes would you recommend if you enjoy world pvp. So I guess this is about a class/spec's 1v1 potential and 1v2+ potential.
thank you for sharing the information, my friend and I are planning on playing arena in WLK, just wondering if the honor points will be carried into WLK from TBC?
If you're playing a hunter and are dual wielding if you have a weapon chain on your offhand and are only DISARMED not DISMANTLED you can still deterrence, to clarify.
@@akhsdenlew1861 you can buy weapons with arena points lol, the benefits are worth it, I've been 2700 playing hunter in wotlk, if you aren't min maxing you won't climb.
Are you sure you want to stack with a temate with Killing spree on you considering Rogue has Bladeflurry ? Also I think Charge is usable in combat only from MoP
Gonna be honest compared to your other videos this was a bit disappointing, was more of a "new abilities classes get" compared to why it's harder than TBC. Was expecting like pacing comparisons, overall feel and importance of cc chains etc. idk. Big fan btw your vids get me hyped af for wotlk arena
Hey man I’m already rolling unh dk and h pal , but please help me decide my third and last spec I’m torn between ele sham and arms war … which one would u recxomend ? I like melee but I like big bursts as well
Hey man, quick question. My buddy and will both be rolling DKs for WOTLK. Do you think that frost/uh or double uh would perform better in arenas? We aren't insanely experienced with wotlk by any means, but we are looking to put in the time to try and improve. Thanks for any insight!
Your video is more about new abilities (which u covered well except leaving out Priest :p) than it is a comparison of difficulties so the title is a bit misleading. To give a comment on "wotlk is more difficult than tbc": I kind of disagree with that general statement. Wotlk is a lot more fast paced with more abilities and requires more mechanical skill as well as faster reactions. However, TBC is just so fundamentally different that it is hard to conpare difficulty just based on pacing. TBC requires a lot more strategic planning, setup and micromanagement to actually get really good. Due to the fast pacing, wotlk is more about quick reactions and spontaneous decision making and you can just grind your way to victory while in TBC every single gcd matters a lot more as it is just slower overall. In the end, it is a thing of preference what kind of playstyle suits you more. The majority might have more problems with the fast pacing while others may struggle with the strategic, almost chess-like gameplay of TBC.
agreed 100% tbc is more strategic and less bursty. theres more small nuanced plays that influence the game. and ur not having infinite mana. in wotlk games can be over in seconds due to no-brain burst, harder to come back if being opened on, list goes on....
nothing tells more about chess-like gameplay than getting stun from stunwarrior/stunpalla and then gets mauled to 0 with random WF procs Or getting your cc resisted
@@wisniamw Well... true. You got me there. RNG sucks in TBC... but it does not really change the fundamental slow pacing which my admittedly poor example was referring to :D
@@chocrikir655 tell me where are the chess when you go into arena as not-meta champ and jsut sit in sap>sap>blind>poly>sap for over 30s while they are raping your teammate Compare it to WotLK, where every class have at least 2 or 3 ways of dealing with others and you have to consider all of these possibilities
@@wisniamw More versatility does not equal more difficult gameplay...neither does better balance. Wotlk is a lot more balanced in many ways but that has nothing to do with difficulty. Unless you consider remembering a handful of extra abilities hard in which case there are much bigger problems at hand than nitpicking on that chess example. Also you would just be immune to sap in your example because dr exists, so you do not really seem to know much about pvp
@@christofferberg3174 yea honestly.. the classes are really good.. the only balance problems in wotlk is shadowmourne and 2-3 trinkets. Other than that, it's really balanced.
What do you guys think is the most fun new WOTLK ability? My List: 5) Death Grip 4) Dragon's Breath 3) Starfall 2) Thunderstorm 1) Bladestorm I learned a lot overall, great video as always Earpugs.
Learning what new spells in the game isn't an indicator of being HARDER lol takes an afternoon. Neither is the fact the game is slower because of the extra defensives. If anything you proved my point that the game requires less game knowledge in match ups than TBC & is slower paced games. TBC was ALWAYS considered a higher tier of skill than wotlk. From current time wotlk and even pservers over years this sentiment was the popular one. I'm sorry you just aren't familiar enough with these old xpacs to know this but TBC characteristic people associate with it is that it has the hardest arena to learn. Not the best overall. Just required high amount of knowledge with a single global deciding how most games go at high rating.
Warrior/Palla with stun spec and WF totem will kill their enemies based on RNG It is also hard to learn, that most classes have at best like 2 comps viable
@@wisniamw yes there are luckbox builds. Let's people with mental disabilities do well at the game, are you ableist? Lol. If you could/wanna be a gamer Adderall snorting rogue with 1k apm then you'd do that. Rogue in wotlk is useful every minute until dance is down again, not a great transition. Wotlk in general is just easier for almost every class to do well in and Comp knowledge means much less. Tbc 1 global decides most high level games, 1 wrong decision. The game knowledge required is much higher + more important in tbc arena.
@@Magetastic69 Its like sayin that shooting at target is harder than playin soccer, becouse in shooting it comes all down to pulling trigger and one mistake can mean you will hit or miss (win/lose), while in soccer you can missplay and still win. ,,Wotlk in general is just easier for almost every class to do well in and Comp knowledge means much less." - having more tools to use =/= easier to play. Also what comp knowledge you have to get in TBC. There is no comp knowledge, there are just comps. What knowledge you need to play vs Rouge/mage, that they will CC one, kill other and then eat food if that doesn't work? That resto shammy will put WF totem so Palladin can 1shot you cuz thats all we have? What is this comp knowledge in TBC and this is genuine question. Also would be great if you manage to hold your emotions and limit the amount of _are you ableist_ comments. Wanna talk? lets just talk
@@wisniamw emotion? It was clearly a joke, are you a robot? Lmao If you don't start on correct target it's normally a loss. RM can reset, against some comps, most can't do that. Rogue lock for example has 1 shot at success vs healer teams and if a single thing goes wrong healer normally recovers and it's a loss. Your game knowledge of comp match up and your "playbook" has to be ironed out otherwise its a loss. Rogue in wotlk is an ambush bot with dance, in cata for example it's used for cc, in wotlk however the only time you're doing dmg is during dance every minute. Just an example of how wotlk gives you more tools but makes the game more braindead. Yes ret sham is auto attack win easy, there are comps that are equally skilless in wotlk ie beastcleave s5. Also imo shooting accurately is harder than winning in soccer lol. You see them feign injury, win with scores like 1-0, it's not much of a sport. These are opinions, 2 very different topics. Wotlk knowing comp Matchup means less. It's more free-form, which can be a good thing, but in terms of game knowledge required it's less if you can do as you wish pick a target on whim where in tbc if you don't already know the correct target you've lost I'm a duelist rogue currently & in every xpac, if you're wanting my exp.
@@Magetastic69 no worries, im not type of a person to yell for opgg or other raidio stuff. You dont need to be masterchef to tell steak is bad. It just dont stick with me. If there are matchups, that are autowin/lose from just the composition of team, then how game knowledge will help there. What warrior, that is constantly freezed to ground while enemies smack his druid can know more to counter it. I am not talking about using spell x or y, as this is part of gameplay no matter if you play in tbc or wotlk. But generally; is there a difference in for example how you position in a certain fight in tbc vs wotlk. Or does the focus of targets and when to swap different greatly between tbc and wotlk. I personally think, that if you do these things like postioning, focusing, etc. like pixel perfect, it will *mean more* in woltk. It will give you more advantage over your enemies in WotLK arena. If there is matchup, that is set from the start to loose becouse of ability composition between teams, then no matter the positioning and other said things. And thus that imo means its easier. About the rouge ambush spam. Arena in WoW always progressed towards gameplay, where my offensive CDs are a little shorter than your defensive CDs, and that the window where I should kill you. Dunno if this is right way as right now in retail we have mage fireball do nothing in pvp bassicly
5s was a pretty meme bracket in TBC and never really developed a defined "meta".. think it will stay that way in wrath. Plus if they keep the same point system, you can just afk games at 1600 and basically get max points anyways
honestly i'd prefer if they just remove 5s and add rated bgs instead. Rated bgs are so much better than meme 5s. Although meme 5s do serve the purpose of easy arena point farming.
"If you're able to sit on the destruction warlock and prevent them from ever casting Chaos bolt and Immolate they will literally do zero damage." You have no idea how funny this this was. You can literally see the spell effect of Backdraft, giving them instant cast Incinerates, as the warlock in the video is just sitting there, doing nothing.
...why would it be harder? Everyone gets stronger, not only your opponents. I would argue that the least meta class/spec right now will have an easier time in wotlk than tbc.
It is harder than tbc in a sense that you need to play a full class at twice the speed. Which is also why gap between most op and barely viable is smaller because barely viable specs in wotlk are still well designed. In tbc you are just oom or dont have anything to press half the time...
my name is from 2004 when I was making a runescape character and someone already had it, I like being original and not having numbers next to my name so I took the L out.
Uh this is becoming too complicated for my old brain but I will manage somehow :D Reason I don't pvp in retail is it's just way too cramped with so many abilities and stuff to track you really need to tryhard to be decent.
For context I never played tbc so I was expecting things to be messed up, but this is nothing compared to the whole shadowlands expansion. An entire huge 5 seconds to kill someone with feral? That's almost 10x as slow as shadowlands. You can have reaction speeds 5-10x lower than in shadowlands and still be competitive, awesome! This expac looks great so far and even better for casuals, I hope it lasts a long time.
could you explain how warlocks "arent tanky" anymore? dont all pvp specs have soul link in wrath, or do they lose something else? and even in tbc, warlocks arent exactly "tanky" except against spellcleaves. they can die really easily to melee
I know pets are much easier to kill but I don't know exactly why they're squishier either. I've heard everyone say it so maybe it's just a general change to the game where clothies are more vulnerable and I don't know if lock gets any defensive CD.
@@csquared4538 Pets are already extremely easy to kill in tbc (by physical damage). Yea that could be it cause I'm not really hearing any other reasons
warlocks need to cast to deal dmg instead of only having instants,their self healing gets nerfed a lot,other dps gets buffed by a lot so there is more danger than only rogues or warriors.resistances also get revamped to be flat % reduction instead of rng resists so youre not invincible to casters either
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Demon wasn't great TBC for PvP and PvE. But i master in pve even in raid stop tier 3 not gear but for illidan not too bad. Now, Demonology can used for both in Woltk I happy :D!
So... Priests do no longer exist in your headspace? ;)
***astronaught meme* **
… never did
MY MAN! Another GREAT video, i cannot stress enough how u basically got the monopoly here on educational PVP WOTLK videos! AND UR DOING THEM WELL! So please take this momentum, take all the inspiration from the comments for the next videos, like ive seen the 'disecting arena match' idea alot and i myself would really appreciate that too, i wanna really try hard with the mates in Wotlk and i NEED your channel brother!
Once wrath is out I will be posting a ton of how to kill X comp and 3's guides etc. Planning on doing a lot of guides in wotlk
@@Earpugs But brother! The waiting room is NOW :( anyway any upload u do i'll be looking forward to!
This is a great video that is made even better because you didn't even acknowledge the existence of Ret Paladins.
Lmao
For ret paladins, arena is definitely easier in WoTLK lol it’s only harder if you currently play a class that doesn’t get much of a buff like rogue for example or, if ur playing paladin then you will have a much easier time in wrath, for mages it’s also much easier even though it’s easy for them now, I suppose it depends who your partner is and who you’re up against really, all I know is this wrath is harder than original wrath due to the use of gold for boosting, so you basically need a good partner and connection or gold buying your way if you want a higher rating, which is why I suggest they drop the rating expectations for the gear then that will stop people bothering to buy boosts, id even suggest LFR to stop people earning through GDKP too, the people who complain at these suggestions are the people who earn gold from them or use gold for them, there’s no other logical reason for anyone to be against it, Asmongold hates LFR coz it ruined his guild, the guild that basically carried him and made his wow life easy and he got first choices and would gear much faster than other people so these types of people get angry when casuals who don’t have much time can get decent gear ⚙️
@@yungthug2403 just do what they did in cata and made ap earnable in random bgs
@@stonymontana9773 I wish
I can't believe this guy didn't cover priest
This is fine for me , I'll be playing priest so that's the only one I didn't need to see lol
Shadow priest is top 3 best classes they have so much dmg and cc, we don’t need anymore spriest out there. Spriest is the ultimate paladin stopper
@@gregoswiler6127 no, Shadow priest is not top 3 best classes.
Shadowpriest is good in 2s with a frostmage and a rogue but it's not good in 3s.
Spriest GOATed
@@akhsdenlew1861 cry
Hey man, nice video. One thing I may suggest regarding paladins. I think talking about the "preg" spec is very important as it can be extremely dominating against certain comps. Definitely something you will queue into
I’ve covered preg in multiple videos, paladins have the same CD’s to watch generally regardless of spec. D sac, hand of sac, bop, bubble, hoj, freedom. So i didn’t feel like saying that 4 times
I think its important to mention the slow removal you get from Earthbind Totem as Enhance. Each pulse or totem drop will dispell all slow effects on yourself and your team within a certain range.
For sure, too much info for me to get everyone without forgetting a few unfortunately.
great content dude. hope you blow up as wotlk becomes the meta :) quality content deserves praise
Thank you!
wow awesome production right there with exemples all thru the video! i appreciate that!
Brilliant stuff, exactly what I wanted to know going into wotlk! Also the ending music kicked me in the nuts with nostalgia T-T
TBC: shadowstep & kick a heal : you've won the game
WoTLK: survive all burst, instant trinket CC, drag pet over hunter trap to not lose game, win against arena glads who have played this expac for 10+ years
love your channel bud just found it, finally some pvp knowledge to learn
I love this, I play little pvp in tbc but im more excited for wrath pvp!
All classes now feel like they've reached their full potential.
Another fantastic video, I can’t wait till your next one. I also I thank you for your Patreon page, it has helped me tremendously!
What a quality video mate appreciate this going into wotlk
personally i like the pace of cataclysm better in terms of damage...but lich king is pretty much even in terms of skill and fun
Nothing for priests? :(
Hi, this video is incomplete because it did not cover the Priest class. Hopefully a revised version will be done soon.
False.
TBC arena is harder than wotlk one.
Go check data mining and algorithm to confirm my words and don’t rely on a TLK hype buddy
Can you make a S5 tier list? My buddy and I are stuck on playing DK/Warrior of Rsham/Hpal. We plan on playing both eventually, but I think we would like to push the more viable one in S5 first to get a jump on gearing.
I won't sorry, way too much work for a short lived video
@@Earpugs ppl want season 5 tier vids tho. if you want free views do it :)
yeah i’d also be interested in seeing a quick s5 tier list, im sure a lot of people would
earpugs new vid insta click
Hell yeah! I'm a newbie and this content is S+ tier
@@PurpleDragonSpike yeah same same never played wow but started in day 1 classic found out this channel like s2 tbc and it’s been quality content
Did i miss the priest?
For someone who gonna play Rdrood this video help me a lot :>
Ty for the video ! Very instructive
As if the hype couldn't get bigger!!! Great Video TY :) GREAT INFO
ypu miss the most inportant trick with death knight. Since they can turn undead they can heal with death coil
It was easier back in the day, but you see people have improved alot, A 2400 player in original wotlk would stuggle at 1500-1600 mmr today. Also back in the day you had high participations, so lots of Bad/newish players even at 2k+ rating, i was one of them, Started playing Pvp seriously in Wotlk and Got Arena master, Gladiator, and pretty much every arena achievemet available at that time. But lets be real, When i look back i was not even that good. I basicaly Did stuff even 1600 players do today, and it was enought. Peple were just bad/still kinda new to arena/rated pvp at that Era. All you needed was everything Keybinded, and If you had some good focus macros too oh boy you were already Gladiator material. Now everybody has that even at 1600 rating. Ye Basicaly If your average player now Which is 1500-1700 rating That is Pretty much where 50% people who play arena are would travel back in time To Wotlk and Played Against PLayers in that Era that Guy would be Blizzcon Champion God pretty much, Im not joking.
GIGA informative. well done sir
Prot warrior can be useful with a non ARP/Crit set, cannot forget about the block value shield slam one shots. Wont be as good as it was on live since im assuming the patch we will be playing on is 3.3.5a but can still easily surprise people. Also really want to see how well a lesser known Arms/Prot hybrid revenge spam spec works against melee comps.
2H revenge spec is only really good in warrior 1v1's and doesn't do much vs casters so it's super niche
Thanks for the great overview video! Can I ask what WOTLK private server (or whatever it is) you use to hit training dummies?
I loved the video. Please PLEASE do a guide on ret pally!!
Hey Earpugs love ur vids! As a tbc arena fan, WOTLK burst seems insanely overtuned, at least on warmane? Rogue, sham, boomkin, ench, lock, hunt etc can all 1 shot ppl. Just seems a bit less strategic/nuanced than tbc arena where games are less bursty and requires more setup to kill? Just my initial experience from adapting to wotlk pvp. Makes it slighty less enjoyable and a bit more nobrain imo at least. (feel free to let me know how much of a 1500 noob i am in the comments lmao)
Comeon, TBC had like... 4 viable specs, it was awful. Bring on the WOTLK!
most specs are viable with the right comp. for example feral rogue is super good. resto ret/war is good aswell, list goes on. but yea the limited viability is maybe only downside to tbc
Wotlk absolutely has comps that can kill
Someone in 2 seconds for sure. The difference between the two is that TBC’s damage is much more RNG based. Take turbo cleave in TBC vs turbo in wrath for example. WF totem no longer gives random 1 shots and warriors dont have RNG mace stuns. The random 100-0 that TBC turbo can do in TBC doesn’t happen in wrath since WF is flat melee haste now. Turbo still deletes people don’t get me wrong but they will never 100-0 in .3 seconds like they can in TBC.
Also for comp viability while sure every class can play maybe 1 or 2 comps to high rating tons of specs are restricted and certain ones not even viable. AKA fire mages, arcane mages, boomkins, rets are only viable with WF, prot wars etc. even the viable specs can play at best 3 comps. In wrath literally every healer has 10+ comps that are insanely strong let alone the dozens and dozens of still viable comps that maybe aren’t super S+ tier.
No priest?
no mention of shaman hex or did i miss that
its a good and interesting guide, my question is more, what phase is this? i guess it must be endgame, would like to know how the classes are at season 1
This video has nothing to do with phases, it's general knowledge and applies to week 1 of season 5 in to the last week of season 8. It's applicable for the entire expansion.
@@Earpugs yes i thought that too, but can a boomy for example right in the first season really do that much pressure? i thought casters needed alot of gear to scale, but still i would like to know what the best classes are at phase 1 in pvp, if you do a guide for each phase it would be nice and give you also more content to talk about.
@@Intelligenkeit casters do damage every phase, in early S5 yes it's harder for casters to survive cleaves but by S6 ur pretty much chilling.
Very informative thanks
Hey there Earpugs,
i watched a lot of your tierlists and you always ranked warrior Aa a S+ class. But isnt warrior pretty weak in the early season especially without armorpen?
So if u pick warrior do you have to wait for like TOC to shine?
A random hpala with an arms counters most double dps teams. That makes Arms top tier for the entire expansion. Clothies which are super strong later on, are giga squish early on, so it balances out.
Wars always scale like this. In arena it's the same. A warrior on you is a countdown till you are dead.
@@filipfenix warrior struggles even vs priest early on. It rly shouldnt be encouraged
@@kklap3219 vs priest 1v1 sure. Warrior with heals have too much pressure to deal with as priest unless you play very well/have very strong gear
@@dirtydard4870 my dude, wtf does "vs priest 1v1 sure" mean? Priest will play with a rogue, if the warr tries to tunnel the priest, the rogue will absolutely skullfuck his healer, even if its a paladin. Priest doesnt get pressured by warrior this early on, the rogue/mage dont have to peel at all. You have no idea about early wrath meta, not sure why ur coming at me.
What about the priest?
Shadow priests?
How you forget priests ? Lol
@@Earpugs Shadow doesn't have Penance. Why not Shadow? They are good.
@@Earpugs definitely wasn't in the video and shadow priests get a lot more survivability than tbc
Thanks for spotlight priest , like and subscribe
You didn't mention that Shamantistic Rage for enhancement shamans is reduced by 50% mana gained and 50% cooldown (15 sec 30% damage reduction 15% mana on 1.5m cd).
Also fire mage getting instant pyros could be something to look out for :P
Otherwise great video!
I remember back in wrath most rogues going mutilate/prep
You forgot to mention Death Knights' Death Grip, can be used for things like peeling and interrupting
That doesn’t need to be said lol. It’s common sense.
You can deathgrip warriors during bladestorm. It's def worth noting, Also dk dots are removed by cloak but are also applyable during cloak.
where is Priest?!?!
the annoying thing about wow pvp is barrier of entry, if you don’t have the top gear on every piece your odds of winning go down…
True, however you don't need full bis bis to be viable in wotlk which is really nice and much different than TBC.
@@Earpugs that does sound nice
You forgot priest :(
kinda random, but do you have like a tierlist for classes in world pvp? or what classes would you recommend if you enjoy world pvp. So I guess this is about a class/spec's 1v1 potential and 1v2+ potential.
I don't sorry, destro/feral/ret/DK are all very good in 1v1's.
I was rank 1 in 2v2 in tbc and wotlk Rogue / Shadowp
That earpugs is so hot right now
Legendary content
thank you for sharing the information, my friend and I are planning on playing arena in WLK, just wondering if the honor points will be carried into WLK from TBC?
There’s a 99% chance they they carry them from TBC to wrath
@@Earpugs thank you for you answer, what would you recommend frost mage profession for arena ? Eng+ tailor?
@@chongyao3386 BS/JC is bis every season
@@Earpugs thank you so much~ so expensive though...
It’s as difficult as the people you’re playing against….and with.
good video but what happened to priest in wotlk?
Priests get removed in wotlk and replaced with a bard class
priest?
Which classes would you say are best in the first season of wotlk?
Whatever you think is the most fun
I'm gonna play a few different comps with brother in law and friend... Hpal, feral, hunter... Lock mage hpal.... Lots of comps to choose between 😀
If you're playing a hunter and are dual wielding if you have a weapon chain on your offhand and are only DISARMED not DISMANTLED you can still deterrence, to clarify.
This is true, most hunters will use a two hander since the stats are better.
@@Earpugs on wotlk retail high rated hunters brought the 2 1h's and a 2h for the switch depending on the comp. Best way to play it imo.
@@powerfulnoun2608 the gains are not worth the effort.
If u happen to get them, cool.. but hunting for them is not worthy it.
U just get BIS 2h.
@@akhsdenlew1861 you can buy weapons with arena points lol, the benefits are worth it, I've been 2700 playing hunter in wotlk, if you aren't min maxing you won't climb.
@@powerfulnoun2608 Bis weapons are not with arena points.
if u have extra arena points, then u obviously do it.
No mention of Priest?
Good content
does BoP or other immunities keep you from being stunned out of starfall and keep it casting?
It will for physical cc's like blind stun yes. Not magical obviously
i would like to get my gear only from pvp then it would be the best arena expansion for me too
Are you sure you want to stack with a temate with Killing spree on you considering Rogue has Bladeflurry ? Also I think Charge is usable in combat only from MoP
Only fury cant charge in combat.
Why do people call them boomkin? Who started this ?
Gonna be honest compared to your other videos this was a bit disappointing, was more of a "new abilities classes get" compared to why it's harder than TBC. Was expecting like pacing comparisons, overall feel and importance of cc chains etc. idk. Big fan btw your vids get me hyped af for wotlk arena
Hey man I’m already rolling unh dk and h pal , but please help me decide my third and last spec I’m torn between ele sham and arms war … which one would u recxomend ? I like melee but I like big bursts as well
definitely arms then
No priest love? 😈😇
Hey man, quick question. My buddy and will both be rolling DKs for WOTLK. Do you think that frost/uh or double uh would perform better in arenas? We aren't insanely experienced with wotlk by any means, but we are looking to put in the time to try and improve. Thanks for any insight!
Frost unholy probably for the cc
Nothing on priest? Sadge
Your video is more about new abilities (which u covered well except leaving out Priest :p) than it is a comparison of difficulties so the title is a bit misleading.
To give a comment on "wotlk is more difficult than tbc": I kind of disagree with that general statement. Wotlk is a lot more fast paced with more abilities and requires more mechanical skill as well as faster reactions. However, TBC is just so fundamentally different that it is hard to conpare difficulty just based on pacing. TBC requires a lot more strategic planning, setup and micromanagement to actually get really good. Due to the fast pacing, wotlk is more about quick reactions and spontaneous decision making and you can just grind your way to victory while in TBC every single gcd matters a lot more as it is just slower overall. In the end, it is a thing of preference what kind of playstyle suits you more. The majority might have more problems with the fast pacing while others may struggle with the strategic, almost chess-like gameplay of TBC.
agreed 100% tbc is more strategic and less bursty. theres more small nuanced plays that influence the game. and ur not having infinite mana. in wotlk games can be over in seconds due to no-brain burst, harder to come back if being opened on, list goes on....
nothing tells more about chess-like gameplay than getting stun from stunwarrior/stunpalla and then gets mauled to 0 with random WF procs
Or getting your cc resisted
@@wisniamw Well... true. You got me there. RNG sucks in TBC... but it does not really change the fundamental slow pacing which my admittedly poor example was referring to :D
@@chocrikir655 tell me where are the chess when you go into arena as not-meta champ and jsut sit in sap>sap>blind>poly>sap for over 30s while they are raping your teammate
Compare it to WotLK, where every class have at least 2 or 3 ways of dealing with others and you have to consider all of these possibilities
@@wisniamw More versatility does not equal more difficult gameplay...neither does better balance. Wotlk is a lot more balanced in many ways but that has nothing to do with difficulty. Unless you consider remembering a handful of extra abilities hard in which case there are much bigger problems at hand than nitpicking on that chess example. Also you would just be immune to sap in your example because dr exists, so you do not really seem to know much about pvp
wanna focus on 33 comp with Rogue. Which comp do u recommend? RogueSP/Heal RoguePal/Heal or RMP
Try them all out, all 3 Have Different play styles
im so excited to do something ive already done years ago,
is this supposed to be sarcasm? why would something that was fun years ago not still be fun today
Why no priest in this video?
I believe Wotlk 3.3.5 PVP was the most balanced of XPACs..
Yes if you take away shadowmourne. :)
@@christofferberg3174 yea honestly.. the classes are really good.. the only balance problems in wotlk is shadowmourne and 2-3 trinkets.
Other than that, it's really balanced.
Season 7 was better imo. Season 15 (mop) was also great.
What do you guys think is the most fun new WOTLK ability?
My List:
5) Death Grip
4) Dragon's Breath
3) Starfall
2) Thunderstorm
1) Bladestorm
I learned a lot overall, great video as always Earpugs.
Dragon's Breath is TBC thing i believe
you didnt mention shred / ambush / backstab go through deterrance
What about fury warrior and blood DK?
Learning what new spells in the game isn't an indicator of being HARDER lol takes an afternoon. Neither is the fact the game is slower because of the extra defensives. If anything you proved my point that the game requires less game knowledge in match ups than TBC & is slower paced games. TBC was ALWAYS considered a higher tier of skill than wotlk. From current time wotlk and even pservers over years this sentiment was the popular one. I'm sorry you just aren't familiar enough with these old xpacs to know this but TBC characteristic people associate with it is that it has the hardest arena to learn. Not the best overall. Just required high amount of knowledge with a single global deciding how most games go at high rating.
Warrior/Palla with stun spec and WF totem will kill their enemies based on RNG
It is also hard to learn, that most classes have at best like 2 comps viable
@@wisniamw yes there are luckbox builds. Let's people with mental disabilities do well at the game, are you ableist? Lol.
If you could/wanna be a gamer Adderall snorting rogue with 1k apm then you'd do that. Rogue in wotlk is useful every minute until dance is down again, not a great transition. Wotlk in general is just easier for almost every class to do well in and Comp knowledge means much less. Tbc 1 global decides most high level games, 1 wrong decision. The game knowledge required is much higher + more important in tbc arena.
@@Magetastic69 Its like sayin that shooting at target is harder than playin soccer, becouse in shooting it comes all down to pulling trigger and one mistake can mean you will hit or miss (win/lose), while in soccer you can missplay and still win.
,,Wotlk in general is just easier for almost every class to do well in and Comp knowledge means much less." - having more tools to use =/= easier to play. Also what comp knowledge you have to get in TBC.
There is no comp knowledge, there are just comps. What knowledge you need to play vs Rouge/mage, that they will CC one, kill other and then eat food if that doesn't work?
That resto shammy will put WF totem so Palladin can 1shot you cuz thats all we have?
What is this comp knowledge in TBC and this is genuine question.
Also would be great if you manage to hold your emotions and limit the amount of _are you ableist_ comments. Wanna talk? lets just talk
@@wisniamw emotion? It was clearly a joke, are you a robot? Lmao
If you don't start on correct target it's normally a loss. RM can reset, against some comps, most can't do that. Rogue lock for example has 1 shot at success vs healer teams and if a single thing goes wrong healer normally recovers and it's a loss. Your game knowledge of comp match up and your "playbook" has to be ironed out otherwise its a loss. Rogue in wotlk is an ambush bot with dance, in cata for example it's used for cc, in wotlk however the only time you're doing dmg is during dance every minute. Just an example of how wotlk gives you more tools but makes the game more braindead.
Yes ret sham is auto attack win easy, there are comps that are equally skilless in wotlk ie beastcleave s5.
Also imo shooting accurately is harder than winning in soccer lol. You see them feign injury, win with scores like 1-0, it's not much of a sport. These are opinions, 2 very different topics.
Wotlk knowing comp Matchup means less. It's more free-form, which can be a good thing, but in terms of game knowledge required it's less if you can do as you wish pick a target on whim where in tbc if you don't already know the correct target you've lost
I'm a duelist rogue currently & in every xpac, if you're wanting my exp.
@@Magetastic69 no worries, im not type of a person to yell for opgg or other raidio stuff. You dont need to be masterchef to tell steak is bad.
It just dont stick with me. If there are matchups, that are autowin/lose from just the composition of team, then how game knowledge will help there. What warrior, that is constantly freezed to ground while enemies smack his druid can know more to counter it. I am not talking about using spell x or y, as this is part of gameplay no matter if you play in tbc or wotlk.
But generally; is there a difference in for example how you position in a certain fight in tbc vs wotlk. Or does the focus of targets and when to swap different greatly between tbc and wotlk.
I personally think, that if you do these things like postioning, focusing, etc. like pixel perfect, it will *mean more* in woltk. It will give you more advantage over your enemies in WotLK arena.
If there is matchup, that is set from the start to loose becouse of ability composition between teams, then no matter the positioning and other said things. And thus that imo means its easier.
About the rouge ambush spam. Arena in WoW always progressed towards gameplay, where my offensive CDs are a little shorter than your defensive CDs, and that the window where I should kill you. Dunno if this is right way as right now in retail we have mage fireball do nothing in pvp bassicly
What do you think will be some of the rising 5s comps for points?
5s was a pretty meme bracket in TBC and never really developed a defined "meta".. think it will stay that way in wrath. Plus if they keep the same point system, you can just afk games at 1600 and basically get max points anyways
5 boomies
honestly i'd prefer if they just remove 5s and add rated bgs instead.
Rated bgs are so much better than meme 5s.
Although meme 5s do serve the purpose of easy arena point farming.
So no priest?
No priest? :(
you should make a wrath pvp profession vid
Arena will be easier for me in wotlk because I didn't play rogue in TBC
This will upset all of the Rogues who spam hemo and press 4 other buttons think they're high skill capped ninjas.
"If you're able to sit on the destruction warlock and prevent them from ever casting Chaos bolt and Immolate they will literally do zero damage."
You have no idea how funny this this was. You can literally see the spell effect of Backdraft, giving them instant cast Incinerates, as the warlock in the video is just sitting there, doing nothing.
...why would it be harder? Everyone gets stronger, not only your opponents. I would argue that the least meta class/spec right now will have an easier time in wotlk than tbc.
agreed 100%
It is harder than tbc in a sense that you need to play a full class at twice the speed.
Which is also why gap between most op and barely viable is smaller because barely viable specs in wotlk are still well designed.
In tbc you are just oom or dont have anything to press half the time...
@@hhhgggds still not harder. More complicated? Yes, more talents and spells to keep track of. But the same for everyone. IE not harder.
No priest or ret pala?
Nothing on priests?? Yet they are top tier... a bit disappointed
You forgot to mention Hex for Shaman.
lichborn + death coil = nice way to heal combo
Earpugs? Why not just Earplugs? :)) Nvm, great video however gj:)
my name is from 2004 when I was making a runescape character and someone already had it, I like being original and not having numbers next to my name so I took the L out.
You missed to talk about priests =(
arms looks so strong
big stronk
Uh this is becoming too complicated for my old brain but I will manage somehow :D Reason I don't pvp in retail is it's just way too cramped with so many abilities and stuff to track you really need to tryhard to be decent.
Just que triple DK
For context I never played tbc so I was expecting things to be messed up, but this is nothing compared to the whole shadowlands expansion. An entire huge 5 seconds to kill someone with feral? That's almost 10x as slow as shadowlands. You can have reaction speeds 5-10x lower than in shadowlands and still be competitive, awesome! This expac looks great so far and even better for casuals, I hope it lasts a long time.
😂😂😂😂😂😂
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
DKs are so overpowered
Small streamer was like this, knowing or barely play the game with 1 or 2 class and think he was knowing all knowledge about the game.
me no play game
It is also more forgiving tho
Where tf is master class, priest :O ?
could you explain how warlocks "arent tanky" anymore? dont all pvp specs have soul link in wrath, or do they lose something else? and even in tbc, warlocks arent exactly "tanky" except against spellcleaves. they can die really easily to melee
Soullink gets nerfed from 50% to 20% ... Id say that’s the main reason
@@stefangeibla3824 soul link is already 20% in tbc, 50% would be insane heh
I know pets are much easier to kill but I don't know exactly why they're squishier either. I've heard everyone say it so maybe it's just a general change to the game where clothies are more vulnerable and I don't know if lock gets any defensive CD.
@@csquared4538 Pets are already extremely easy to kill in tbc (by physical damage). Yea that could be it cause I'm not really hearing any other reasons
warlocks need to cast to deal dmg instead of only having instants,their self healing gets nerfed a lot,other dps gets buffed by a lot so there is more danger than only rogues or warriors.resistances also get revamped to be flat % reduction instead of rng resists so youre not invincible to casters either