Chief I knew a Deputy United States Marshal late 70s early 80s who carried a 4 inch blue S&W Model 29 as his duty gun. I'm 6'5" and he towered over me probably 6'8". It looked like a snub on him, loaded with magnum JHP and he could shoot it too. All of us were envious as we had .38 Specials.
Chief, That was an awesome video, I like how you dressed for the part and the shooting you did was great also. You did a great tribute to the late Mr. Keith. 2 thumbs up in my book. Thank you for this video.
First thing that comes to mind " Lone Wolf McCabe " Love the cross draw holster ,hat and the iconic 29! I have a Super Redhawk with a 2power Leopold. Took it out a few days ago ,off the bench AR 25yrds a large ragged hole 44 cowboy loads. Now I want a 29 ! I have bought 3 new guns since watching your show. It might be your infectious passion for firearms either way great show as always . Inspiring people to get off the couch and go to the range. If ya got em shoot em! Best Semper Fi
Outstanding Howard ! Elmo's Keith style cast bullet was a good hunting cartridge with the copper gas check they were fast & accurate out of the Marlin 1984 .44 Magnum Rifle.
One gun I will NEVER let go is my Model 29-2 that I nicknamed “Elmer”! A little H110 and a light bullet (180 grain) and you can push those puppies pretty damn fast! Especially with my 8 3/8” barrel.
Thank you for uploading this video! I am a young man from California that did not get much exposure to gun culture growing up, but after reaching adulthood I've become interested in the hobby. I only recently started learning about who Elmer Keith was and purchased his book "Sixguns". This video satisfied my craving of learning more about him!
I’m sure Elmer is looking down from his elk heaven and smiling. I have a 629 that is a favorite of mine. I don’t push it too hard. One load I liked was Remington 210 grain JHP load. Highest energy out there.
I’ve shot his loads in.357 dia and. 429 .dia with 2400 powder charges per his recommendation for both , they’ve never let me down and I still shoot them after 60 years and I cast my own bullets using his moulds and I harden them to 22 Brinnel I have nothing but respect for the man. Hell he was there
Still a very formidable firearm! In the 1970s(the middle ages), purchased a Safariland shoulder holster for the 8 3/8 29. It went from armpit to belt making it impressive if not practical.
But can it be true? A 300gr hunting load drops 400 inches at 500 yards. From a rifle it's 240 inches. At 500yards it's still deadly but at 800yards? I looked a bit around and some sources state 600yards hitting a mule deer buck. It was wounded, he walked his shot in to finish what someone else started. The first is said to be a miss, second one hit. After that 2 more shots, one miss and another hit. (according to Craig Boddington of G&A) It's said he had a good position sitting against a tree. I guess it's possible if it was 500-600yards, when Jerry Miculek almost hit a balloon at 1k yards twice.
@@onpsxmember - "Can it be true?" Yes, it can. We launch artillery shells in a big high arc, and the enemy will tell you those artillerymen are quite accurate. No, you can't use bullet drop tables for such shooting because you are quite right about the bullet drop and etc, but your question was "can it be done" and the answer is "Yes, certainly." Oh, BTW, I heard it was 700 yards. Regardless, 6, or 7, or 800 yards, it was a revolver being shot at a distance many riflemen have difficulty with.
Elmer was the grandmaster of all things handgun. Most don't know it, but Elmer started with a 45 Colt. After a few "blown up" revolvers, he wrote to the American Rifleman for more information. Come to find out, he was using 45-70 bullets in a 45 Colt (458 diameter in a 454 bore). Yep, i imagine pressure was up there a bit. It was after this that the switch was made to 44 Special. As for the 357, there was already a "38-44". This was a hot loaded 38 intended to be used Only in 44 frame guns. You can find references to it in PO Ackley's books. This was a big success, so S&W got busy. Concerns already because people were ignoring the "44" part and guns were biting the dust. Elmer did collaborate on the 357, and whether true or not, I learned that he was the one who came up with the 1/10th longer idea. With the two successes (357 & 44), I always wondered why Elmer championed the 41 mag. Found the answer, I think. In his very very earliest writings, he comments that the 41 Colt was a far better fight/man stopper than its ballistics would indicate. Elmer did propose the 41 for police use, and he did want the "police duty" load brought out first. Unfortunately Remington and everyone else ignored Elmer and brought out the magnum load first - and consequently the 41 never got a good start. Elmer was the grandmaster.
I'm going shooting tomorrow with my son, who I haven't shot with since before the plague, my grand nephew, who I taught to shoot, and is home on leave from the Air Force, and my friend and co-worker that I haven't seen since I retired in December of 2020. I am going to bring my Ruger Super Blackhawk for sure with the 7.5 inch barrel and we will all salute Elmer Keith! And as pure coincidence we are going to blow up frozen and unfrozen water bottles as well.
Great. Thank you you Elmer for driving this cartridge to production. My first was purchased in 1985 & have had every 29/629 barrel length made & a couple Ruger.
@@hrfunk That is interesting. I went to the gun show with $300+ in 1985 to buy an 8 3/8" 29. The only NIB 29 I was interested in was the Silhouette 10 5/8". After a little haggling I bought it for $325 and started an avalanche of magnum revolver purchasing in my family. I actually bought a used silhouette model within a year because it was a price I couldn't refuse. We were shooting cinder blocks at 65-85 yards with success.
I think that .44 Special load would make a heckuva good defensive loading for a 4" barrelled revolver, but I always liked the full-on Magnum loading with the Keith bullet as a bear defense load in a 6" or 6.5" gun.
Hey Dale, I'm putting together the list for my first Member's Zoom and I don't have an email address for you. If you would like to join in, send me your email at Hrfunk@zoominternet.net
thank you so much, i love 44 mag, love revolvers, and elmer keith be a hero of mine, now if just just switch to a ruger super redhawk this would be perfect :)
I love the .44 cartridge and whether a special or magnum the awesome is always there. It may not be the most powerful handgun cartridge today, but it is my favorite. I have a Charter Arms On Duty Bulldog in .44 special that I carry on occasion and it may only offer 5 shots, but those 5 shorts are going to be Gold dot certified good ones. I prefer it to my J frames because of the simple math, .44 is more than .38.
I have been into the 44mag a very long time. i guess i got my first in the late 70s since then i have owned more than a few. in the last 8-10 yrs i have been shooting alot of 44spl and bought a GP100 and a flattop in 44spl to say "i'm a fan of the 44 would be a huge understatement !! great video Mr. Howard, looked like you was having alot of fun.
Yeah he is one of my heroes in the gun world, grew up since I was a kid in the early 70's reading everything he put out. One of his biggest accomplishments was shooting a ram , I believe, at 600 yds with a 2"in S&W .44 mag revolver, a feat that was unheard of ever, proving that long barrels don't necessarily equate to accuracy, an he mite have even done this in the early 80's, don't quite remember when tho, thx for the vid.
This was so much fun to watch. You always have to laugh whenever you shoot the big loads. I too love to shoot those, although sparingly due to cost. Great video (love the humor) and kudos to your rig. Very nice.
i am a fan of lead swc bullets, didnt realize that was elmers bullet type - i like 44 caliber swc cause i dont trust any hp to expand and i want a bullet that cuts a nice hole, 44 hole cut with a swc does the trick for me
The only .44 magnum I own is a 8inch barrel colt anaconda from the 90's while beautiful it's a massive stainless steel monster of a revolver for which I've yet to find a suitable holster. An older buddy of mine knew I was fond of the old snake guns and had long dreamed of owning an example of one he happened to have an impressive collection of such parting with the anaconda shes one of my prized possessions. The lineage of the .44 mag is impressive and I still equate it as one of the most powerful cartridges because it offers controllability and some rapid follow up ability with that substantial powerhouse load it encompasses a wider amount of load possibilities for different uses. I like that I could use .44 for home defense or for very effective hunting loads I would put it next to the .454 cassul in this category. Not the most powerful but it's no slouch and doesn't make us develop a flinch.
A few years ago, when Elmer's gun collection came up for auction, I sucked my breath and registered. Looked through the catalogue and decided that I might be able to afford his everyday carry 29. Beat up, scarred...but it was Elmer's, so what! The piece came up online, and the OPENING bid was my maximum. So much for owning apiece of history! I make do with a fixed sight Model 21 with a gold bead up front, similar to one in "Hell, I Was There!". Of course fed with #429421 style bullets on top of a healthy load.
Excellent video as always. If I remember correctly Ruger got wind of the cartridge that Remington was developing and introduced a Blackhawk (not Super Blackhawk) in 44 magnum around same time or possibly before S&W introduced their revolver.
I have a great article which covers that ordeal. S&W was the first to produce and ship revolvers chambered for the .44 Magnum, but due to supply/shipping issues, Ruger revolvers showed up in some gun stores before the S&W's did.
Reading Keith's stuff since the early 1960's. Never heard of a .44Special/Magnum cartridge/load ? Familiar with Keith's Heavy .44Spl load and his .44Mag loads.
The ".44 Special Magnum" as I understand it, was the name Mr. Keith assigned to his heavy .44 Special load early on. I think once the .44 Magnum was released, he simply referred to his older handload as his .44 Special.
Glad you enjoyed those bullets! They are from a mold that is a clone of the 429421 bullet. Elmer’s idea of hard cast bullets was 1:16 tin/lead. Very soft by today’s standards. These were from wheelweights/Linotype and are that soft. Soft bullets, sized properly for the gun, lubed with good lube and pushed hard enough to obturate will have less leading than small harder ones. The ones folks purchase from retail providers are just that, small and hard. All that being said, this video wasn’t about “my” bullets, but Keith’s. Great design and his loads are fun to shoot….sparingly! Lol I think I have some of the Thompson design bullets that Skeeter favored, just not with a gas check. May have to send you some of them for a “Skeeter Tribute” video! Lol Good shooting, HR!
Pastor Boyer, How is the holster business going? Last time you made one for my Glock G17.. Since then I have attempted to get my head out of my ass... 1911 🇺🇸 Regards, Chris Petersen
@@hrfunk Are you ready for some of those Thompson style 357 bullets? I also have some cavernous HP cast bullets I’d like to see you shoot from both the revolver and 1894 Marlin. Water desperados would have no chance of surviving them! Let me know….
I have both a S&W 686 - 6" and a S&W 629 Classic - 6.5." This is going to sound strange, but I have never fired a magnum round through either gun. I go to the range and plink for accuracy, and get wonderful groups with the "special" rounds for both guns. Virtually no recoil for either gun that way. Edit: When there was ammo I used to go to the range ...
In a word “Stout”! Imagine living in rural Idaho in the ‘20’s and loading your own ammo. I’m sure good information was hard to get, so it highly dependent on you to keep your gun in one piece. I guess monthly magazines and written letters were the information sources of the day. Vastly different times.
I know those Keith loads are hot! I found the load data some time ago and I am loading the same powder and cast bullet but don't have enough balls to work up to his load in my 4" Model 29. By the way I like your rifle sling belt, where did you find it?
At some point in the past Smith and Wesson made some changes in the profile of the rifling in the 44 Magnum. Accuracy is still great with jacketed bullets but not as good with cast. My 629 will not shoot cast bullets nearly as well as the Model 29 I had in the 70s
@@hrfunk Perhaps, I never tried it. I found that the 240 grain XTP shot very well in the 629 and performed well on our small Mississippi Whitetails. Since we have a lot of rain here during deer season I retired the 29 and switched to the 629.
After the Specials, I'm not sure I'd want to shoot the Mags...lol Guessing your hands have some sting and maybe a bit of a flinch 🤣 But are they tack drivers???
@@hrfunk Really enjoyed it. I have a copy of Sixguns by Keith and it is one of my favourite books so really good to see you do a feature on his loads. Thank you.
Thank you, HR, for a great way to begin this day. This video was very enjoyable and provided lots of worthwhile information. Here’s a succinct comment and a question: > I - personally - favor .357 magnum Smith and Ruger revolvers, which have all the oomph I’m ever likely to require. In past years, I was a major advocate of the.41 magnum, but I decided the ammunition was often was too difficult (and expensive) to find, so when we downsized (and my reloading days ended) my beloved .41s were traded. > I’m not a Keith historian, although I have long highly valued his writing, ideas and experimentation. I’ve wondered why Elmer did not use the.45 Colt as the basis for his big bore greater velocity and power work, since the .45 had LOT of interior vacant volume (due to its black power origins)? Any thoughts?
Hi Roy! You just touched on a real piece of firearms lore. The story goes like this: Elmer was involved in a situation as a young cowboy where he tried to dispatch some sort of animal (it might have been an injured steer, but I don't remember for certain). Anyway, he was using a Single Action Army revolver chambered for the .45 Colt cartridge. It ended up taking more shots to euthanize the animal than he thought it should have, and Elmer blamed the lackluster performance on underpowered factory ammunition. Thus, began his quest for more powerful handgun ammunition. In his early experiments, Elmer did in fact use the .45 Colt cartridge. Unfortunately, the cylinder of his SAA ruptured when he capped off one of his heavy handloads (Forgotten Weapons recently produced a video wherein they showed what was purportedly the remains of the very cylinder that Elmer destroyed). After this incident, Elmer reasoned that the cylinder walls of revolvers chambered for the .45 Colt were too thin to contain the pressures he was developing. He then turned his attention toward the .44 Special cartridge. The .44 Special's case, being somewhat smaller in diameter than the .45 Colt, allowed more steel between each chamber of the cylinder in the revolvers of that era. The rest, as they say, is history.
@@hrfunk THANK YOU so much, HR, for these greatly interesting and valuable historical insights. What Elmer experienced with the .45 Colt makes sense, and I can easily understand his turning to the .44. Of course, Dick Casull’s .454 really addressed my thought (long before I ever had it) re utilizing the .45 Colt’s interior volume. With all this said, I still enjoy 250 grain .45 Colt’s moving downrange, notwithstanding their comparatively low (standard pressure) velocities. Except for the SAA/Cowboy Action world, the round seem to me to be heading for near-obscurity, but I can’t imagine any East of the Mississippi target that wouldn’t be wholly vulnerable to a top rated .45 Colt load.
I know just what you mean Roy. I really like the 240 grain .44 Special stepping along at about 1000 fps. The ballistics are similar to the .45 Colt. Both cartridges are effective for just about any reasonable handgun task and they don't overly stress the revolver or the shooter.
The original load was a 240 grain hardcast linotyoype < keiths bullet design >. The new version of 2400 powder is too hot to load the original amount of 20 grains. DO NOT USE THAT DATA................ The hottest I load is 19 grains of 2400, and 2400 powder is not available at this time ,, There are other powders which are appropriate. Always use data from a current reloading manual, and start by reducing by at least 10%. The intensity of powders vary from lot to lot of production.so Use extreme caution. ........ Be advised Mr. Keith stated his load would shoot through 3 feet of Bear.................. From a lot of personal experience I would state Yes.. It probably would.. Yes , I have been to Alaska and yes I carried a original model 29-2 , target version, with about a 5" barrel back in the day.. Given a choice I would use a high powered rifle from a couple hundred yards away while they are standing still and no idea I was there. . Bears are dangerous. and given a choice I would just leave them alone.
Good vid Howard !! The .44 mag is not the " world's most powerful " any longer ??? I DON'T CARE !!! It is plenty powerful enough for me. Uh, I don't need nor want anything more powerful in a handgun. But I will say that the .44 is my most favorite cartridge to shoot. Which it must be as I have seven revolvers chambered in that round and one lever action chambered in .44. My revolver barrel lengths range from two 3 inchers, a 4 incher, three 6 inchers and one 7 1/2 incher. I do not mess around with " specials " in either my .44s or.357s. I have been reloading my own ammunition for 47 years. Occasionally I like to shoot full house loads but for the most part I only load and shoot " mild magnums "...........not to be confused with pussy......uh, ....wussy rounds. My apologies to all the girly men out there, no offense intended. My typical loads are using jacketed bullets [ because I hate dealing with leaded barrels and the process of how to eliminate it and deal with it once you have it ] and loaded to approximately 200 fps slower than full house. Still a potent round, fun to shoot, and guess what ???...........Your brass lasts many, many more rounds of restoking. YEH !!! Anyway, keep 'em coming Howard. Signed, Doug.
Nice video! I enjoy shooting my 29 alot. I can't handle too many 44 Magnum rounds, but just shooting a few is fun. BTW-What holster was that for your 29 6"?
Wrong, Kieth started with 45 colt, kept destroying 1873 colts. He called S&W. they told him to use 44 special for the stronger cylinder (ie, thicker walls).
Love hate with the 44 spl for me... as a handloader. LOVE... easy to load.... highly accurate. can come in guns smaller and lighter than the 44 mag guns. Hate..... you can go overboard especially if you follow Elmers old recipes
@@fjb4932 Well... been handloading for a long time. Think I had like two manuals. No internet but we got all the gun magazines. Manuals were notorious for loads maybe a tad too hot as were the gun writers of the day. In any case.. there was a lot of bad info back then. now we have personal chrono's and computer access to all sorts of loads. Kieth was trying to make a magnum out of the special Which was great but there were no guns that could handle a steady diet of em. Making the 44 mag they approximated his 44 spl loads but were smart enough to make the case on the magnum a tad longer so it wouldn't end up in the old 44 spl guns
The bullet shown at the outset has the wrong ogive to be a "true" Keith bullet. Im guessing that the driving bands are not all the same height or thickness either. Oh well, horse shoes and hand grenades.
@@hrfunk That the general consensus among the staff of Handloader. I know there’s an article somewhere that pitted an older lot of 2400 vs the current. The old did give higher velocity. Elmer’s .44 Special load was pressure tested at around 28,000 psi. It was thought to have produced 25,000 in Elmer’s day. Current data definitely shows lower maximum charges than 30 plus years ago. Just a guess on my part, but Alliant could have made a small change to the formula when they took over from Hercules in 1994.
hrfunk true I know my pistol and ammunition are good and I have shot one big hole but I’m older and blinder now . I noticed the way you grip your gun is how I do it 👍.
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Elmo Keith & Skeeter Skelton were two of my favorites.
Mine too.
Jim Jordon to, god there's a whole host of the old school guys I revered
Chief I knew a Deputy United States Marshal late 70s early 80s who carried a 4 inch blue S&W Model 29 as his duty gun. I'm 6'5" and he towered over me probably 6'8". It looked like a snub on him, loaded with magnum JHP and he could shoot it too. All of us were envious as we had .38 Specials.
Chief, That was an awesome video, I like how you dressed for the part and the shooting you did was great also. You did a great tribute to the late Mr. Keith. 2 thumbs up in my book. Thank you for this video.
You're welcome Travis. I'm glad you liked it!
Great Video ! I first started reading Elmer Keith articles as a kid in the 1960's
First thing that comes to mind " Lone Wolf McCabe " Love the cross draw holster ,hat and the iconic 29! I have a Super Redhawk with a 2power Leopold. Took it out a few days ago ,off the bench AR 25yrds a large ragged hole 44 cowboy loads. Now I want a 29 ! I have bought 3 new guns since watching your show. It might be your infectious passion for firearms either way great show as always . Inspiring people to get off the couch and go to the range. If ya got em shoot em! Best Semper Fi
Thanks Brian. Semper Fi!
Outstanding Howard ! Elmo's Keith style cast bullet was a good hunting cartridge with the copper gas check they were fast & accurate out of the Marlin 1984 .44 Magnum Rifle.
I still need to run some of these through my 1894.
One gun I will NEVER let go is my Model 29-2 that I nicknamed “Elmer”! A little H110 and a light bullet (180 grain) and you can push those puppies pretty damn fast! Especially with my 8 3/8” barrel.
Thank you for uploading this video! I am a young man from California that did not get much exposure to gun culture growing up, but after reaching adulthood I've become interested in the hobby. I only recently started learning about who Elmer Keith was and purchased his book "Sixguns". This video satisfied my craving of learning more about him!
You're welcome Yung. Just FYI, there is a lot more to learn about Mr. Keith.
Yung Traplord.
"Hell, i was there !"
by Elmer Keith
Just picked up a box of 44 bullets at the shop today to load up and now watching this. Good stuff .
Thank you!
I’m sure Elmer is looking down from his elk heaven and smiling. I have a 629 that is a favorite of mine. I don’t push it too hard. One load I liked was Remington 210 grain JHP load. Highest energy out there.
You are such a good natured and optimistic guy that I was surprised to hear you say that the bottle was half empty. LOL
I’ve shot his loads in.357 dia and. 429 .dia with 2400 powder charges per his recommendation for both , they’ve never let me down and I still shoot them after 60 years and I cast my own bullets using his moulds and I harden them to 22 Brinnel I have nothing but respect for the man. Hell he was there
Yes. He was.
Elmer: be vewy vewy quiet. I’m wewoding magnums.
LOL
Oh that's good
Thank you Skip!
Yeah buddy!
BTW: Sexy holster.
Looking forward to this have a lot of Keith books some old ones, great stuff. Shot wild boar with 6.5" and a 4 inch Model 29 S&W
I've never shot a boar, but I've shot several deer with the .44 Magnum. With good shot placement, there is very little tracking required.
My first introduction to Elmer and his .44 was a Shooting Times article I read when I was 9. Elmer helped form many of my thoughts on firearms.
Mine too. Thanks for watching!
Nicely done! My hands hurt just watching...
Thank you!
I had a pair of Ruger Super Blackhawks in .44mag, wish I had never sold them. Very accurate and plenty powerful.
Still a very formidable firearm! In the 1970s(the middle ages), purchased a Safariland shoulder holster for the 8 3/8 29. It went from armpit to belt making it impressive if not practical.
At least it looked intimidating! I think I've only got one 8 3/8" S&W left. I tend to prefer the 4" and 6" versions better.
I still love the story of Elmer dropping a deer at 800 yards in Texas with his .44 magnum when his friend could not even hit it with a rifle.
Me too!
But can it be true? A 300gr hunting load drops 400 inches at 500 yards. From a rifle it's 240 inches.
At 500yards it's still deadly but at 800yards?
I looked a bit around and some sources state 600yards hitting a mule deer buck. It was wounded, he walked his shot in to finish what someone else started. The first is said to be a miss, second one hit. After that 2 more shots, one miss and another hit.
(according to Craig Boddington of G&A)
It's said he had a good position sitting against a tree.
I guess it's possible if it was 500-600yards, when Jerry Miculek almost hit a balloon at 1k yards twice.
@@onpsxmember - "Can it be true?" Yes, it can. We launch artillery shells in a big high arc, and the enemy will tell you those artillerymen are quite accurate.
No, you can't use bullet drop tables for such shooting because you are quite right about the bullet drop and etc, but your question was "can it be done" and the answer is "Yes, certainly."
Oh, BTW, I heard it was 700 yards. Regardless, 6, or 7, or 800 yards, it was a revolver being shot at a distance many riflemen have difficulty with.
Elmer was the grandmaster of all things handgun. Most don't know it, but Elmer started with a 45 Colt. After a few "blown up" revolvers, he wrote to the American Rifleman for more information. Come to find out, he was using 45-70 bullets in a 45 Colt (458 diameter in a 454 bore). Yep, i imagine pressure was up there a bit. It was after this that the switch was made to 44 Special.
As for the 357, there was already a "38-44". This was a hot loaded 38 intended to be used Only in 44 frame guns. You can find references to it in PO Ackley's books. This was a big success, so S&W got busy. Concerns already because people were ignoring the "44" part and guns were biting the dust. Elmer did collaborate on the 357, and whether true or not, I learned that he was the one who came up with the 1/10th longer idea.
With the two successes (357 & 44), I always wondered why Elmer championed the 41 mag. Found the answer, I think. In his very very earliest writings, he comments that the 41 Colt was a far better fight/man stopper than its ballistics would indicate. Elmer did propose the 41 for police use, and he did want the "police duty" load brought out first. Unfortunately Remington and everyone else ignored Elmer and brought out the magnum load first - and consequently the 41 never got a good start.
Elmer was the grandmaster.
In an odd way, the concept of the .41 Magnum lives on in the form of the .40 S&W and the 10mm Auto.
@@hrfunk - True. I hadn't carried my thinking into that idea, but you're right!
I'm going shooting tomorrow with my son, who I haven't shot with since before the plague, my grand nephew, who I taught to shoot, and is home on leave from the Air Force, and my friend and co-worker that I haven't seen since I retired in December of 2020. I am going to bring my Ruger Super Blackhawk for sure with the 7.5 inch barrel and we will all salute Elmer Keith! And as pure coincidence we are going to blow up frozen and unfrozen water bottles as well.
Great. Thank you you Elmer for driving this cartridge to production. My first was purchased in 1985 & have had every 29/629 barrel length made & a couple Ruger.
I think the only one I never had was the Silhouette version with the 10.5" barrel. I had a chance to buy one once, and I should have grabbed it!
@@hrfunk That is interesting. I went to the gun show with $300+ in 1985 to buy an 8 3/8" 29. The only NIB 29 I was interested in was the Silhouette 10 5/8". After a little haggling I bought it for $325 and started an avalanche of magnum revolver purchasing in my family. I actually bought a used silhouette model within a year because it was a price I couldn't refuse. We were shooting cinder blocks at 65-85 yards with success.
I believe it. Those are cool revolvers!
Always enjoy. Thank you
I have seen photos of some of the guns that he blew up. Awesome!
Fun video. Elmer Keith was a very interesting man.
Great stuff! Man, that Elmer Keith load packs a wallop!
Ha, ha! Yep!
I think that .44 Special load would make a heckuva good defensive loading for a 4" barrelled revolver, but I always liked the full-on Magnum loading with the Keith bullet as a bear defense load in a 6" or 6.5" gun.
Hey Dale, I'm putting together the list for my first Member's Zoom and I don't have an email address for you. If you would like to join in, send me your email at Hrfunk@zoominternet.net
thank you so much, i love 44 mag, love revolvers, and elmer keith be a hero of mine, now if just just switch to a ruger super redhawk this would be perfect :)
Thanks & good shooting
Elmer and Skeeter were my heroes
Your smiles made me smile 😀🇺🇸
I’m glad! Thanks for watching!
Keith will always be The Man
Love the M1907 sling belt!
This was a great video as always, and I thank you for taking the time to make it.
You’re welcome. Thanks for watching!
I love the .44 cartridge and whether a special or magnum the awesome is always there. It may not be the most powerful handgun cartridge today, but it is my favorite. I have a Charter Arms On Duty Bulldog in .44 special that I carry on occasion and it may only offer 5 shots, but those 5 shorts are going to be Gold dot certified good ones. I prefer it to my J frames because of the simple math, .44 is more than .38.
Looked like you were having a lot of fun with this video. Thanks for sharing.
You’re Welcome Cora. Thanks for watching!
Thanks for the video!
You’re welcome. Thanks for watching!
If the muzzle jump doesn't indicate the Recoil. The Reluctant Smile does.
Best Wishes from Montana M.H
I have been into the 44mag a very long time. i guess i got my first in the late 70s since then i have owned more than a few. in the last 8-10 yrs i have been shooting alot of 44spl and bought a GP100 and a flattop in 44spl to say "i'm a fan of the 44 would be a huge understatement !! great video Mr. Howard, looked like you was having alot of fun.
I was! I’m a big fan of the .44’s too (both the Special and the Magnum). Thanks for watching!
Love some 44 mag. Have a 29-2 6" and a blued 7.5 Redhawk. Great video, thanks for your time and effort
You're welcome John. thanks for watching!
Great to see you having fun !
Thanks!
Yeah he is one of my heroes in the gun world, grew up since I was a kid in the early 70's reading everything he put out. One of his biggest accomplishments was shooting a ram , I believe, at 600 yds with a 2"in S&W .44 mag revolver, a feat that was unheard of ever, proving that long barrels don't necessarily equate to accuracy, an he mite have even done this in the early 80's, don't quite remember when tho, thx for the vid.
You’re welcome. Thanks for watching!
Excellent Video! Well done 👍
Thank you very much Mark!
Great video thank you.
You’re welcome. Thanks for watching!
This was so much fun to watch. You always have to laugh whenever you shoot the big loads. I too love to shoot those, although sparingly due to cost. Great video (love the humor) and kudos to your rig. Very nice.
Thank you Stan!
Elmer Keith was a maniac when it came to pushing the limits! 👍🏻 You need some Watermelon Desperados! 😁👍🏻
Ha! If I have watermelon, I prefer to eat it?
@@hrfunk Lol! I hear you! I'd be like shooting pie! 😁
Once again a great vid, thanks for the great stuff you have for us.
You're welcome Paul. Thanks for watching!
If you need any thing bigger to get the job done you need a rifle .nice to see us old guys(1966) are still having fun .
Good video! Couldn't watch live was on a trip.
Thanks Hod!
That sure is a beauty!!
Thank you!
i am a fan of lead swc bullets, didnt realize that was elmers bullet type - i like 44 caliber swc cause i dont trust any hp to expand and i want a bullet that cuts a nice hole, 44 hole cut with a swc does the trick for me
It's done the trick for many people for decades. Mr. Keith's actual bullet is the Lyman #429421. His alloy was 16 parts of pure lead to 1 part tin.
The only .44 magnum I own is a 8inch barrel colt anaconda from the 90's while beautiful it's a massive stainless steel monster of a revolver for which I've yet to find a suitable holster. An older buddy of mine knew I was fond of the old snake guns and had long dreamed of owning an example of one he happened to have an impressive collection of such parting with the anaconda shes one of my prized possessions. The lineage of the .44 mag is impressive and I still equate it as one of the most powerful cartridges because it offers controllability and some rapid follow up ability with that substantial powerhouse load it encompasses a wider amount of load possibilities for different uses. I like that I could use .44 for home defense or for very effective hunting loads I would put it next to the .454 cassul in this category. Not the most powerful but it's no slouch and doesn't make us develop a flinch.
The .44 Magnum has always been the most powerful handgun cartridge I’ve needed. If I need more than that, I’m in the wrong place!
Really Cool Tribute HrFunk 😀😀😀😀
Thanks Chris!
Elmer's legacy also included the .357 and .41 magnums as well as a number of rifle cartridges.
Nice video, once again, Howard. 44 Magnum is also great fun in carabines like the Marlin 1895 Cowboy. I use S&B and MagTech.
Thanks Marc! I still need to give these a try in my Marlin.
The MAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
A few years ago, when Elmer's gun collection came up for auction, I sucked my breath and registered. Looked through the catalogue and decided that I might be able to afford his everyday carry 29. Beat up, scarred...but it was Elmer's, so what! The piece came up online, and the OPENING bid was my maximum. So much for owning apiece of history! I make do with a fixed sight Model 21 with a gold bead up front, similar to one in "Hell, I Was There!". Of course fed with #429421 style bullets on top of a healthy load.
Of course. Anything else would just be wrong. Thanks for watching Dan!
Excellent video as always. If I remember correctly Ruger got wind of the cartridge that Remington was developing and introduced a Blackhawk (not Super Blackhawk) in 44 magnum around same time or possibly before S&W introduced their revolver.
I have a great article which covers that ordeal. S&W was the first to produce and ship revolvers chambered for the .44 Magnum, but due to supply/shipping issues, Ruger revolvers showed up in some gun stores before the S&W's did.
Those 44 mag loads would work great in my 44 lever action
Reading Keith's stuff since the early 1960's. Never heard of a .44Special/Magnum cartridge/load ?
Familiar with Keith's Heavy .44Spl load and his .44Mag loads.
The ".44 Special Magnum" as I understand it, was the name Mr. Keith assigned to his heavy .44 Special load early on. I think once the .44 Magnum was released, he simply referred to his older handload as his .44 Special.
@@hrfunk hmmm....
Brutal rounds HR, I have the Model 629 Classic 6.5 it’s a handful
Yep, and it’s fun too!
Awesome!
Thanks!
I have a m29 from 1962 it was my late great fathers. I've never thought of putting Keith loads in it .ill have to do some loading
If you try some of them, be sure to let me know what you think.
@@hrfunk definitely.
Glad you enjoyed those bullets! They are from a mold that is a clone of the 429421 bullet. Elmer’s idea of hard cast bullets was 1:16 tin/lead. Very soft by today’s standards. These were from wheelweights/Linotype and are that soft. Soft bullets, sized properly for the gun, lubed with good lube and pushed hard enough to obturate will have less leading than small harder ones. The ones folks purchase from retail providers are just that, small and hard.
All that being said, this video wasn’t about “my” bullets, but Keith’s. Great design and his loads are fun to shoot….sparingly! Lol
I think I have some of the Thompson design bullets that Skeeter favored, just not with a gas check. May have to send you some of them for a “Skeeter Tribute” video! Lol
Good shooting, HR!
Thanks Skip. I'm glad you liked it!
Pastor Boyer,
How is the holster business going? Last time you made one for my Glock G17..
Since then I have attempted to get my head out of my ass...
1911 🇺🇸
Regards,
Chris Petersen
@@hrfunk
Are you ready for some of those Thompson style 357 bullets? I also have some cavernous HP cast bullets I’d like to see you shoot from both the revolver and 1894 Marlin. Water desperados would have no chance of surviving them!
Let me know….
@@chrispetersen113
This has been a long time in being answered! Yes, Chris, I am taking orders again sir. Tennessee flag if I recall.
@@skipboyer1889 > Pleased to hear you're taking orders again, however I need to give my credit card a breather for a month or two...
I have both a S&W 686 - 6" and a S&W 629 Classic - 6.5." This is going to sound strange, but I have never fired a magnum round through either gun. I go to the range and plink for accuracy, and get wonderful groups with the "special" rounds for both guns. Virtually no recoil for either gun that way. Edit: When there was ammo I used to go to the range ...
Ammo appears to be slowly coming by back. Hopefully it will continue to do so.
Great video, Howard! It would be cool to see some vs .454 Casul.
I’ve never shot one. The .44 Magnum has always done everything I’ve needed to do. Still, if I get my hands on a 454, I’ll give it a try.
In a word “Stout”! Imagine living in rural Idaho in the ‘20’s and loading your own ammo. I’m sure good information was hard to get, so it highly dependent on you to keep your gun in one piece. I guess monthly magazines and written letters were the information sources of the day. Vastly different times.
Definitely. Even now I have a small library of reloading manuals. At least they still function if the power goes out.
I have several of his books. They bring a collectors premium.
I've got two of his books and they are permanent fixtures in my library.
Oooh! Weeee! That's a "spicy meatball!" Thanks HR! Cooler to watch than participate! Yup! Meow, meow! Lol!
Ha, ha! They were actually fun to shoot!
I know those Keith loads are hot! I found the load data some time ago and I am loading the same powder and cast bullet but don't have enough balls to work up to his load in my 4" Model 29. By the way I like your rifle sling belt, where did you find it?
You looked like you had way too much fun making this video!
It WAS a lot of fun!
At some point in the past Smith and Wesson made some changes in the profile of the rifling in the 44 Magnum. Accuracy is still great with jacketed bullets but not as good with cast. My 629 will not shoot cast bullets nearly as well as the Model 29 I had in the 70s
I wonder if using a harder cast bullet might help.
@@hrfunk Perhaps, I never tried it. I found that the 240 grain XTP shot very well in the 629 and performed well on our small Mississippi Whitetails. Since we have a lot of rain here during deer season I retired the 29 and switched to the 629.
Keith hit an elk a 600 yards with his handgun..maybe recreate that..😏
First I’ll have to find an Elk in Ohio!
Maybe a cow...lol
Skip Moore Holsters? Chief, is he still making holsters?
After the Specials, I'm not sure I'd want to shoot the Mags...lol
Guessing your hands have some sting and maybe a bit of a flinch 🤣
But are they tack drivers???
Ha! These are railroad spike drivers! Fortunately, I didn’t shot enough of them from the bench to really bother my hands.
You had way too much fun making that video. Not that I'm envious...
It was fun to make. I hope it was also fun to watch!
@@hrfunk Really enjoyed it. I have a copy of Sixguns by Keith and it is one of my favourite books so really good to see you do a feature on his loads. Thank you.
Admit it, you went out to have some fun with a. 44 and just happened to film it!
OK, I admit it!
Thank you, HR, for a great way to begin this day. This video was very enjoyable and provided lots of worthwhile information. Here’s a succinct comment and a question:
> I - personally - favor .357 magnum Smith and Ruger revolvers, which have all the oomph I’m ever likely to require. In past years, I was a major advocate of the.41 magnum, but I decided the ammunition was often was too difficult (and expensive) to find, so when we downsized (and my reloading days ended) my beloved .41s were traded.
> I’m not a Keith historian, although I have long highly valued his writing, ideas and experimentation. I’ve wondered why Elmer did not use the.45 Colt as the basis for his big bore greater velocity and power work, since the .45 had LOT of interior vacant volume (due to its black power origins)? Any thoughts?
Hi Roy! You just touched on a real piece of firearms lore. The story goes like this:
Elmer was involved in a situation as a young cowboy where he tried to dispatch some sort of animal (it might have been an injured steer, but I don't remember for certain). Anyway, he was using a Single Action Army revolver chambered for the .45 Colt cartridge. It ended up taking more shots to euthanize the animal than he thought it should have, and Elmer blamed the lackluster performance on underpowered factory ammunition. Thus, began his quest for more powerful handgun ammunition.
In his early experiments, Elmer did in fact use the .45 Colt cartridge. Unfortunately, the cylinder of his SAA ruptured when he capped off one of his heavy handloads (Forgotten Weapons recently produced a video wherein they showed what was purportedly the remains of the very cylinder that Elmer destroyed). After this incident, Elmer reasoned that the cylinder walls of revolvers chambered for the .45 Colt were too thin to contain the pressures he was developing. He then turned his attention toward the .44 Special cartridge. The .44 Special's case, being somewhat smaller in diameter than the .45 Colt, allowed more steel between each chamber of the cylinder in the revolvers of that era.
The rest, as they say, is history.
@@hrfunk
THANK YOU so much, HR, for these greatly interesting and valuable historical insights. What Elmer experienced with the .45 Colt makes sense, and I can easily understand his turning to the .44. Of course, Dick Casull’s .454 really addressed my thought (long before I ever had it) re utilizing the .45 Colt’s interior volume. With all this said, I still enjoy 250 grain .45 Colt’s moving downrange, notwithstanding their comparatively low (standard pressure) velocities. Except for the SAA/Cowboy Action world, the round seem to me to be heading for near-obscurity, but I can’t imagine any East of the Mississippi target that wouldn’t be wholly vulnerable to a top rated .45 Colt load.
I know just what you mean Roy. I really like the 240 grain .44 Special stepping along at about 1000 fps. The ballistics are similar to the .45 Colt. Both cartridges are effective for just about any reasonable handgun task and they don't overly stress the revolver or the shooter.
Should have shot the hat off first on that last one, haa. Good work, Thanks
The original load was a 240 grain hardcast linotyoype < keiths bullet design >. The new version of 2400 powder is too hot to load the original amount of 20 grains. DO NOT USE THAT DATA................ The hottest I load is 19 grains of 2400, and 2400 powder is not available at this time ,, There are other powders which are appropriate. Always use data from a current reloading manual, and start by reducing by at least 10%. The intensity of powders vary from lot to lot of production.so Use extreme caution. ........ Be advised Mr. Keith stated his load would shoot through 3 feet of Bear.................. From a lot of personal experience I would state Yes.. It probably would.. Yes , I have been to Alaska and yes I carried a original model 29-2 , target version, with about a 5" barrel back in the day.. Given a choice I would use a high powered rifle from a couple hundred yards away while they are standing still and no idea I was there. . Bears are dangerous. and given a choice I would just leave them alone.
Good vid Howard !! The .44 mag is not the " world's most powerful " any longer ??? I DON'T CARE !!! It is plenty powerful enough for me. Uh, I don't need nor want anything more powerful in a handgun. But I will say that the .44 is my most favorite cartridge to shoot. Which it must be as I have seven revolvers chambered in that round and one lever action chambered in .44. My revolver barrel lengths range from two 3 inchers, a 4 incher, three 6 inchers and one 7 1/2 incher. I do not mess around with " specials " in either my .44s or.357s. I have been reloading my own ammunition for 47 years. Occasionally I like to shoot full house loads but for the most part I only load and shoot " mild magnums "...........not to be confused with pussy......uh, ....wussy rounds. My apologies to all the girly men out there, no offense intended. My typical loads are using jacketed bullets [ because I hate dealing with leaded barrels and the process of how to eliminate it and deal with it once you have it ] and loaded to approximately 200 fps slower than full house. Still a potent round, fun to shoot, and guess what ???...........Your brass lasts many, many more rounds of restoking. YEH !!! Anyway, keep 'em coming Howard. Signed, Doug.
Will do Doug! Thanks for watching.
Takes a marine to shoot like that . 👍👍👍
Ha, ha! Semper Fi!
Nice video! I enjoy shooting my 29 alot. I can't handle too many 44 Magnum rounds, but just shooting a few is fun.
BTW-What holster was that for your 29 6"?
Thanks! The holster is a Bianchi Cyclone.
My 629 was 499 new in 91
Try "Skeeter Skelton's" losd.
I have. Those are actually my favorite .44 Special loads.
Wrong, Kieth started with 45 colt, kept destroying 1873 colts. He called S&W. they told him to use 44 special for the stronger cylinder (ie, thicker walls).
Which holster are you using for the 629?
A Bianchi Cyclone
I wonder what Elmer would have thought of the 500 ?
Hmm, Now that you mention it, I wonder too.
Take a beating with the 44 magnum ,,,,,,,not what I want to shoot all day😎😎😎 water bottles are gone
Thanks, but .327 Mag is about as high as I like to go with magnum rounds.
What frame smith is that ??
An N-Frame.
Love hate with the 44 spl for me... as a handloader. LOVE... easy to load.... highly accurate. can come in guns smaller and lighter than the 44 mag guns. Hate..... you can go overboard especially if you follow Elmers old recipes
My favorite load is the Skeeter Skelton load. It will work for at least 90% everything you can reasonably ask of a handgun.
@@hrfunk yeah.... mine is pretty much that one.
Doran Maxwell.
Almost Any cartridge can be taken overboard.
Don't be a hater, just stop appropriately . . .
@@fjb4932 Well... been handloading for a long time. Think I had like two manuals. No internet but we got all the gun magazines. Manuals were notorious for loads maybe a tad too hot as were the gun writers of the day. In any case.. there was a lot of bad info back then. now we have personal chrono's and computer access to all sorts of loads. Kieth was trying to make a magnum out of the special Which was great but there were no guns that could handle a steady diet of em. Making the 44 mag they approximated his 44 spl loads but were smart enough to make the case on the magnum a tad longer so it wouldn't end up in the old 44 spl guns
Chief, do you own shoulder holster systems for your 29 and 629 a’la Inspector Callahan?
😈
No. Not for them.
You're a better man than me. That's just too much recoil.
how's the hand hr?
Ha! It’s doing fine!
The bullet shown at the outset has the wrong ogive to be a "true" Keith bullet. Im guessing that the driving bands are not all the same height or thickness either. Oh well, horse shoes and hand grenades.
2400’s a little hotter now than it used to be; definitely want to reduce Elmer’s loads about 5%.
I’ve heard that as well, but I don’t know if it’s been scientifically established or if it’s an oft repeated rumor. Do you have any insight?
@@hrfunk That the general consensus among the staff of Handloader. I know there’s an article somewhere that pitted an older lot of 2400 vs the current. The old did give higher velocity. Elmer’s .44 Special load was pressure tested at around 28,000 psi. It was thought to have produced 25,000 in Elmer’s day. Current data definitely shows lower maximum charges than 30 plus years ago. Just a guess on my part, but Alliant could have made a small change to the formula when they took over from Hercules in 1994.
Thanks for the info Matt!
is it too early to hit the thumbs up? ... Screw it, dont care.."click"... :)) 👍
Thumbs up are appreciated any time!
You forgot his cigar..
Dammit! I knew I forgot something!
You are piping birds into the sound track and there is no way birds are hanging out with all that shooting. Lol chirp chirp
We have very committed birds in this area!
Soooo...Where are the GUNS of Elmer Keith ???
I was talking about his ammo.
As good as your groups are,I thought they would be tighter from the bench 🤷♂️.
It's been a while since I shot a full power .44 Magnum from the bench. It's entirely possible another shooter might have achieved tighter groups.
hrfunk true I know my pistol and ammunition are good and I have shot one big hole but I’m older and blinder now . I noticed the way you grip your gun is how I do it 👍.