Nice to hear the little cameo from your daughter. Families are the most important thing we have. Great video, those certainly have some thump to them. Elmer Keith was a genius.
I use Starline brass for my Ruger only loads in 45 Colt. I'm pushing a 325 grain cast slug over a load of 300-MP out of a 5.5" Blackhawk at 1,180fps and I have not had a single issue with the brass. I have also cut down 454 Casull brass and used them for this load as well but that brass uses a small rifle primer. Never had an issue with Starline brass and I have gotten a lot of re-use out of the brass before I have to replace it, even using it for Ruger only loads. Starline brass is simply the best brass I have ever tried for 45 Colt.
When I was a kid all the gun writers wrote about Elmer keith like he hung the moon im glad to see his stuff held up under testing not all heros have ...good video.
The old 45 colts varied in chamber and barrel diameters a lot more when that book was written. It could along with all the things you said, have caused case separations.
Got my copy in 77 in a surplus place out side of Fayetteville NC while in 82nd . My best friend from h. s. Has been in r&d ect in the ammo industry for over 30 yrs . We ve shot bp together since 75 and have covered A LOT of topics . Recently while doing a batch of combustible cartridges for our colts we looked up loads from the civil war .I was shocked at how low some of the contractors loaded , 16 guns in some 44s ! But , in 1860s with a body hit the oil light is going to come on and you will probably die hard . Not very fast for sure , but fast enough .good channel ! Mark Baker. or around the rondy fire " sir happy pants" and the Kibler is beautiful .
@chris baker Hazard Powder Company made "Cartridge Powder" for makers of revolver combustibles; this was an extremely fine-grained 5Fg powder. I've made combustibles for my Uberti Remington Army using Swiss Null B (very fine grained 5Fg). 22 grains under a 220 grain conical moves at 940+ fps. Hits very hard and is very accurate all the way to 100 yards. The lowest charge I've seen listed on an original packet of .44 Army combustibles was 18 grains on a D.C. Sage packet. In my tests, 18 grains of Swiss Null B moves the 220 grain conical at 850+ fps from the 8" barrel Uberti Remington replica. Not exactly a weak load! BTW, Hazard's "Cartridge Powder" was made at the request of Samuel Colt in 1855, as Colt began manufacture of revolver cartridges. Colt's tin foil cartridges 1855-57 were poor and never became popular. But the switch to paper powder envelopes in 1858 made Colt's combustibles very popular, and opened the door for D.C. Sage, Johnston & Dow, H.W. Mason and many others to start manufacture of revolver combustible cartridges. H.W. Mason was the last manufacturer of combustible revolver cartridges, remaining in business until 1888! Gives you an idea of how popular the C&B revolvers remained, well into the cartridge era!
Very interesting all the loading of black powder in cartridges now days. I had read the Keith books Sixguns and Hell I Was There, lot's of good information in both. Good job with the testing on that load!
I experimented with this load a little over 30 years ago using 300 grain hard cast rnfp bullets and even upped the ante by going all the way to ffffg. I didn't have a chronograph back then though, but penetration was devastating and recoil felt like a magnum although I'm sure there wasn't really much difference in 2 through 4 fg. People would claim I was going to blow up my guns etc., but back in the 70's Lyman pretty much proved it to be hogwash about the pressures relating to 4fg...not that it doesn't increase as it does, but it's not like what many lead others to believe.
Once again my 'rule of thumb' that you gain about 300 fps from handgun to carbine holds true. 👍 This alos shows for those naysayers that 45 colt ain't no joke. Never has been so don't tell me your wonder 9 is more powerful that 'that old wild west' load.
I think where both sides of the isle go wrong is the penetration over expansion. A 9mm hollow point can expand well and do a lot of damage while getting decent penetration from modern bullets and powders. 45 colt EXCELS at penetration which is definitely a needed factor in taking down large game.
To add on too my other comment I would love to see this load tested with the original 2f beside these 3f hotrods and then 40 grains of 4F because why not lol would make for a fun video, your videos have really opened my eyes to the capability of black powder in certain cartridges. Would love to see those hot ass 38 special bp loads you cooked up through a carbine
The one thing I love about black powder is that you can’t overload the cartridge in MODERN firearms and can get reasonable power and performance. The thing I hate is that it’s damned difficult to replicate blackpowder performance in smokeless while keeping in the safe pressure range for modern replicas.
The great part about old balloonhead .45 Colt brass being weak is that it prompted Keith to play with the .44 Special, eventually creating the .44 Magnum
Love this vid bro. I agree with you that you can in many cases get better velocities with BP, without having the high pressure that comes with smokeless. Blackpowder has alot of great uses. Thanks again.
There’s something deeply peaceful about leaving early before the wife and kids are up to go kick up some dust. Maybe grabbing a bite on the way home. I rarely skip a month and it makes life a bit more fun. I load an 1860 cap and ball with a 220 grain conical over 40 grains by volume and that thing hits like .357 magnum with 510 fpe. I use it for big critter defense out in the boonies and carry the .36 for self defense since it carries much nicer.
The marlin 94 numbers are definitely impressive. With a 250gr bullet and 16grs of 2400 out of my 20" 94CB best I can achieve is about 1250. I can crank the heat up a lot more of course, but I have no desire to.
Just an additional bit of information on Elmer's brass failure. Not only were these balloon head cases mercuric primers which attack the brass and weaken its structure. This is why many military labels instructed one to clean the cases in water. I have seen the effects of such old primers for myself, and the deterioration is significant even if the cases are cleaned a few firings will result in unsafe brass.
I clean all my bp cases in water after firing and brush them out too before putting them in a tumbler for cleaning. Combustion of BP produces acids (Sulphuric and Hydorchloric) which will also corrode everything if not promptly cleaned. This is why civilian guns from that era were often both nickel plated (for extra protection) and the insides often used axle grease to keep the corrosion off of the inernal parts.
It would be interesting to see a direct comparison in your Dragoon with this load in the 45 colt cartridge versus in the black powder cylinder, if possible.
Great video. I just loaded some 45 Colt with 250 grain pill and little more then 35 grains. I could see that the bullet would compress the charge. Seeing that you can put a 300 grain pill with same charge concerns me if I should of put more boom dust.
ive been looking at the walker loaded with two 148 round balls with 35-40 grains of powder. for blackpowder deer hunting season. still not sure if they would fully penetrate tho. its one of those if you only get one shot and you don't want it running really deep into the woods.
I like the looks of your Ruger. It is interesting how the works of someone like Elmer Keith are still relevant today. Still we are trying how to fire heavier and heavier bullets out of pistols. (Evidence being the 700 gr 500S&W projectile.)
Interesting, insightful test, way to go! Yes indeed, the book Six Guns, is an awesome reference primer. The late insightful Firearms Cartridge pioneer, Elmer Keith, was an inspiration to many including myself with my development of RFN Universal Bullets for cap&ball percussion revolvers. It's interesting that in the 1850's Colonel Samuel Colt teamed up with General Hazzard from Hazzard Powder company to come up with the most powerful gun powder for cap&ball percussion revolvers. This ultra powerful gun powder was known as " Fine Sporting Revolver Pistol Powder". The Fine Sporting Revolver & Pistol gunpowder was used in Colt's/ Hazzard's invention of Combustible Paper Cartridges for cap&ball percussion revolvers. What is interesting is that from what we know of this history in the decades that followed when metallic Cartridges became the main stay , those were Not loaded with the ultra powered Colt's and Hazzard's Fine Revolver Pistol Sporting powder. As it was said the power factors generated from the Fine Revolver& Pistol powder would compromise the brass casings so (2) FFG granulation gunpowder was generally used. In today's modern world Hodgdon's Triple Seven 3F powder is said to mimic the power levels of the original Colt- Hazzard invention of Fine Revolver and Pistol Sporting gunpowder. With the quality production of Starline Brass, I wonder if you might consider loading up some Starline Brass with 30/35/40+grains of Triple Seven 3F powder and test such?
Seems like a great load to shoot from your converted dragoon revolver. Both for accuracy and power. Thank you for recommending this video. I doubt this load would work in my Howell drop in .45 colt cylinder in my Uberti 1858 new model army revolver though. My 200 grain HSM factory cowboy loads fit just right with the tips of the bullets almost flush with the mouths of the chambers without much room to spare
That is a pretty good amount of compression with a 35gr charge with a 300 grain bullet. It is a good thing those bullets are hard cast! I use a 20:1 alloy and have to compress and seat in two separate steps. Otherwise, I would have a smashed bullet nose.
I have loaded black powder cartridges for decades and competed in matches with my rifles. Don't forget to mention using either a card wad over the powder and make sure the bullet is seated directly upon the powder column or you will create a bomb! A small amount of compression is aslo good especially if your using any other manufacturer of black powder other than Swiss. Goex, Kikki, Elaphant, likes more compression. It will also burn better, with more uniform velocities and less fouling in the gun. That powder compression is best done as a separate operation to seating the bullet upon the card wad otherwise you can get bullet slump (deformation) when you seat the bullet.
That's about the speed that I load my 45/70 with a 317 gn bullet. Plenty of killing power. One of the advantages of black powder is that it burns very quickly. I think that is why there is little difference between the revolvers. The gain in the lever is probably more from the fact that there is no gap barrel to cylinder.
Great video! I've got the same carbine and Bisley except with the 7-1/2" barrel. Same book also! I've wondered about Black Powder but not enough to get the components. Too messy I guess. I kind of gave up on lead bullets all together sticking with Hornady's 250g JHP and #9 powder.
This was fun to watch - it's been a while since I shot BP Pistols and forgot how much fun they can be. Many Thanks and Best Wishes from Ontario Canada.
I'm a big fan of black powder 45 colt loads. I think I'm gonna try that 300 grain load in my pistolero. I dont think I'm gonna try running them threw my opentops tho. Good video thank you
Not to take anything away from Mr. Keith, but I remember an article by him stating that shooting animals with a bow was cruel. As a bowhunter, that got my attention. In another article I heard he would shoot mule deer into Hamburger at 600 yds with his pistols just to prove he could hit them.
I'm not worried about too much pressure. I'm sure that you know how to read primers. That load you quoted was for a 45-90. A little longer eh. I do have quite a bit of data for the old 45-70 black powder competition. Their tip that I walked away with was the varying bulk and compression. They cut fiber over powder wads and set it for .060 to .100 compression with no crimp. They talked about using a 24" funnel to pack the charge without crushing the grains. Ps Elmer Keith settled on 250 for 45 colt. He has multiple molds at Lyman with his name on it. Keep it up. I really enjoy going back to my roots with the black powder.
Hey man I was reading through some newspapers archives, and read a large article about revolvers. It was from the 1890s. At one point the author mentioned a customized type of ammunition that I think would make for a great video. The author says take a 45 colt cartridge and you get a knife or saw and you cut the lead in a cross shape down to the brass. He said that it was a devastating type of ammo but had little accuracy at range. I can send the article if your interested.
Those sure have an authoritative *"THUMP!"* to them when you shoot them, the camera mic picks it up well. Sounds like what ~850fps with a 300gr projectile _(let alone the whopping 1200fps)_ really ought to.
Whats the stats on 40grains of swiss in 45 colt brass compared to 45 colt smokeless standard load? I have been visiting forums and the info varies greatly.
What primers did you use for the black powder loads. I don’t figure it matters too too much but I always like to play it safe with black powder and I’ve never reloaded with black powder before
I did not note any primers being mentioned. I have a 40-82 1886 and black powder loads there recommended a Winchester Large Rifle Magnum primer for maximum consistency etc.
You're going to have to explain, in precise detail, how LED bullet Lube doesn't work for either smokeless or black powder? There should be no functional difference, and the smokeless Lube should work at least as well as the black powder lube. With a 300 grain projectile, those are some competent loads, and very very consistent.
This was interesting Jake, I never would have considered changing out the lube, I'll have to investigate this further before I load any with BP. Also your comment about better velocity with BP has me interested. I've been trying to load .45 Colt in a 12 Ga. adapter (Rifled), adapter is only 3" long so I can't seem to get the bullets to stabilize. Tried 5 different bullets & multiple charges of smokeless so far and they just tumble all over. I was thinking I might have to cut them down to .45 Cowboy Special to get some better acceleration. Any advice. Mike.
@@Everythingblackpowder It's currently a low priority project, I've tried 250, 230, 200, 195 & 185 Gr. bullets with multiple charges. Starting off at scratch again. Next range trip will be with .454 Roundball. After that I'll decide if I want to cut some brass down. Thanks. Mike.
That would be like a 45 snub nosed revolver. Use the lightest bullet and the starting load of the fastest powder. Try 200 gr cast with 5.6 gr of clays. It's too short for black powder but you can try. Try slugging to get bore diameter. That may fix the accuracy issue.
Do you ever use SPG lube? It looks like your home made lube, which I have used at times. I use SPG in my Lyman lubrisizer for all my cast bullets. Works slick, so to speak.
Any idea what that powder charge is by volume? You did it by weight but BP is supposed to be measured by volume. Granted you can do it by weight for consistency once you figure out the weight of a particular charge.
@@Everythingblackpowder Ok. I was just curious. I do the 'ol plowboy load but not with a 300 grain bullet. The 300 grainers are too long to cycle in my '73 Winchester reproduction.
Thank you for not calling a.45a LONG Colt! My .45 SHORT Colt ain’t half bad. Modern influencers bore me! Although, I would subscribe if you just showed a group? I’m sure that is more beneficial than “ slug” speed. Carry on
@@Everythingblackpowder is that directed at me? I gave you a complement, you tube influencer! Do you know how many refer to .45 Colt as “ the Long Colt”? Sheesh. I lauded you. Pfft, read before you get defensive, sodbuster! Nite nite
If you had to unlimber that colt in a building or closed space on an (active shooter ) it would be deafening and terrifying to a bad guy !and that 300 grn slug on a sternum would be devastating to the bad guy . M.B.
If you did the same test but used a 225 grain cast Bullet, what you think the velocity would be out of your marlin 94, that’s what I been shooting but was wondering what the velocity is I don’t have a crony graph, thanks great video
Im young and just recently bought a single action army and Id like to load black powder rounds. Where can can I find lead bullets for reloading. Like where do you go and what specifically do you get. Also I know I need primers, casings, powder and lube. Is there anything else? I plan on using a lee loader until I upgrade
Could you tell me how you melt the smokeless lube off the bullets please. I’ve tried picking it out with a tooth pick but it takes an age. Do you boil it out? I can’t imagine using a naked flame. Your answer would be much appreciated. Thank you.
@@Everythingblackpowder lol! Pyrodex gets a bad rap, i know. Personally tho, i have been using pyrodex for decades, and i have not had any problems with it what so ever. Using pyrodex was not really a choice i made. For many years, long ago, pyrodex was about all there was if anybody wanted to shoot muzzle loaders. Thats just how it was in those days. Once i was able to find traditional black powder, i found it was much more expensive than pyrodex, and did not compress as well as pyrodex. Ive used pyrodex so much over the last 40 years, that ive grown use to it, and actually prefer it to traditional black powder. What ive discovered about pyrodex is, it generally has higher velocity, its cleaner burning, and you get more shots per pound than traditional black powder. Dont get me wrong, traditional black powder is good stuff, and i enjoy it, but pyrodex is better. Ive been using it to load brass cartridges for a long time. Sam Fadala has written many good books about it, and Dan Pawlak was a smart guy.
@@blueduck9409 yeah, I used pyrodex for a lot of years but when I got into flintlocks and started making my own black powder I pretty much quit using pyrodex. I have to disagree about it being better overall compared to real black powder. I would say it’s better than most black powders but it certainly doesn’t beat Swiss in the fouling and ease of cleaning, In my not so humble opinion.
Hay try this out 3030win. With a full case of 3f black powder and 110 gr. Lead bullet gas check. I find it to shot very good 5round group of 1.5 at 100 yards . See what you think. Get back to me ok
Yup. Powder compression and a good black powder bullet lube makes all the difference in the world. If your refering to the guns arbor, grease it up good before assembling the cylinder to the frame. The correct lube of about a 50/50 mix of lambs talliw and beeswax is about perfect. You can also use ready made commercial made Wonder lube also named Bore Butter. These keep the powder fowling soft for many shots and aids greatly in accuracy and eady cleaning. Either clwan the oils out of your gun before shooting or strickly use those lubes exclusively for shooting, loading black powder. It is also a natural preservative that seasons the metal, much like when using a cast iron skillet.
Along with what previous post stated, DO NOT use any petroleum based lubes/oils. They make the fowling from blackpowder hard to remove, will gum up your gun and cause malfunctions.
I don't think you can throw a ping pong ball fast enough to really hurt me....I think you can with a golf ball, and I don't think you have to even try hard to do it with a bowling ball or a shot put. Just something to think about.
You can bang around the black powder all you want, that’s all you’re gonna get out of the 45 and you should really should know that, And I am sure you do. The big change comes when you go to smokeless powder. Here’s a test for you take a Ruger super Blackhawk 44 magnum and make your hottest, heaviest loads, log the results, And then work up a 45 colt load in a Ruger Blackhawk until you start flattening primers. We were going to find there’s a 44 magnum cannot even come close to the power of a Colt 45: The 45 can easily exceed the power of a 44 magnum all the while using less pressure to do it. I can tell you’re new at this because you don’t seem to understand the pressure diameter curve, but you’re on the right track hang in there and you’ll do good. Just don’t sound so confident yet.
Blowing up Single Action Army revolvers in .45 Colt is what ultimately led Elmer Keith to experimenting with the .44 Special and the eventual development of .44 Magnum.
Losing his trigger finger when a Colt SAA cylinder finally gave way probably added impetus to the choice. There is a Colt SAA in the NRA museum with a burst cylinder recovered from the scene of a battle between an army patrol and some Indians, so apparently the strength of the steels used by Colt (coupled with their placement of the cylinder notch) has been an issue since the beginning of the design. Colt didn't start using High Carbon steel until about the 1900s due to smokeless powder creating the need for that steel. I believe 1902 is when they first started proof testing with smokeless powder and placing the VP proof stamp on their SAAs (but not on their 1902 double actions which are made of low carbon steel from left over 1878 stock).
Gotta love Elmer: “The top strap and cylinder departed the gun, finishing up in the bronc corral.” Looks like a somewhat compressed load at 35 gr / 3f. Some who aren’t familiar with 45 Colt history may still wonder at old expressions involving “40 grains of powder,” but the .45 Colt case back in the day was a different animal than the solid head cases of the present, and would hold more powder.
I really love black powder. Unfortunately, in my country you need a special "explosives" licence to legally own the stuff (smokeless propellants can be owned if you have a licenced centre fire firearm) The solution (since 10 years old😁😁) is to make my own. That smell will ALLWAYS put a smile on my face!
Neat. Lots of interesting information and a great comment from Arnold. Sure glad Elmer made the effort and took the time to document what he knew and had experience with. Maybe there should be a National Keith Appreciation Day, where we celebrate the man with shooting events, and a moment of silence for all those like him and others. Keep your enthusiasm and the informative videos going. O.R.
You can put a tiny bit of mink oil or unique case lube to resize, highly recommend since Ive leaded up my .309 die sizing .312's. Cant wait to try a 45colt black powder load in my blackhawk.
I've been reloading smokeless powder cartridges since the mid 90's but know very little about blk powder.. How does fouling differ in loading metallic black power cartridges Vs cap & ball? Would I be correct to think most fouling is contained in the cartridge & less in the cylinder & barrel? Thanks
What fouling ends up in the chamber of your cap and ball pistol ends up in the spent case and down the barrel. Cartridge guns seem to make a little less fouling. I suspect it’s because they make more pressure and do a better job of burning the powder than a cap and ball does.
Back in the '70's I was shooting a 7 1/2" Ruger in .45 Colt. After reading some of Elmer Keith's works I determined to compress load my SOLID HEAD Winchester Cases with FFFg black powder and cast (original profile) 255 grain lead bullets. Took them to the police range and ran through the PPC course, firing 60 rounds, 7 yards back to 50 yards. Having been use to running the course of fire with .38 Spl. 148 grain wadcutters, that turned out to be a work out. To top it off, I could not touch the revolvers barrel after the first 30 rounds. Needless to say, that was the last time I shot that course of fire with that revolver and that load. Really enjoyed watching your testing the old Keith load.
Keith profile SWC and the .41 mag. The little know greats from Keith. Great to hear your little girl call for Daddy. Huge respect to you sir!
I always wanted to know what BP loads were good for .41 mag!
From that rifle you are getting modern 44mag ballistics. Achieving that with only 35 grains of bp is highly impressive.
Nice to hear the little cameo from your daughter. Families are the most important thing we have. Great video, those certainly have some thump to them. Elmer Keith was a genius.
Thank you
I think he was a velocity junkie.
I use Starline brass for my Ruger only loads in 45 Colt. I'm pushing a 325 grain cast slug over a load of 300-MP out of a 5.5" Blackhawk at 1,180fps and I have not had a single issue with the brass. I have also cut down 454 Casull brass and used them for this load as well but that brass uses a small rifle primer. Never had an issue with Starline brass and I have gotten a lot of re-use out of the brass before I have to replace it, even using it for Ruger only loads. Starline brass is simply the best brass I have ever tried for 45 Colt.
Bitchin
Elmer designed the best revolver bullet molds as well!
When I was a kid all the gun writers wrote about Elmer keith like he hung the moon im glad to see his stuff held up under testing not all heros have ...good video.
Thank you
The old 45 colts varied in chamber and barrel diameters a lot more when that book was written. It could along with all the things you said, have caused case separations.
Very possible
Got my copy in 77 in a surplus place out side of Fayetteville NC while in 82nd . My best friend from h. s. Has been in r&d ect in the ammo industry for over 30 yrs . We ve shot bp together since 75 and have covered A LOT of topics . Recently while doing a batch of combustible cartridges for our colts we looked up loads from the civil war .I was shocked at how low some of the contractors loaded , 16 guns in some 44s ! But , in 1860s with a body hit the oil light is going to come on and you will probably die hard . Not very fast for sure , but fast enough .good channel ! Mark Baker. or around the rondy fire " sir happy pants" and the Kibler is beautiful .
@chris baker Hazard Powder Company made "Cartridge Powder" for makers of revolver combustibles; this was an extremely fine-grained 5Fg powder. I've made combustibles for my Uberti Remington Army using Swiss Null B (very fine grained 5Fg). 22 grains under a 220 grain conical moves at 940+ fps. Hits very hard and is very accurate all the way to 100 yards. The lowest charge I've seen listed on an original packet of .44 Army combustibles was 18 grains on a D.C. Sage packet. In my tests, 18 grains of Swiss Null B moves the 220 grain conical at 850+ fps from the 8" barrel Uberti Remington replica. Not exactly a weak load! BTW, Hazard's "Cartridge Powder" was made at the request of Samuel Colt in 1855, as Colt began manufacture of revolver cartridges. Colt's tin foil cartridges 1855-57 were poor and never became popular. But the switch to paper powder envelopes in 1858 made Colt's combustibles very popular, and opened the door for D.C. Sage, Johnston & Dow, H.W. Mason and many others to start manufacture of revolver combustible cartridges. H.W. Mason was the last manufacturer of combustible revolver cartridges, remaining in business until 1888! Gives you an idea of how popular the C&B revolvers remained, well into the cartridge era!
Very interesting all the loading of black powder in cartridges now days. I had read the Keith books Sixguns and Hell I Was There, lot's of good information in both. Good job with the testing on that load!
Thank you
I experimented with this load a little over 30 years ago using 300 grain hard cast rnfp bullets and even upped the ante by going all the way to ffffg. I didn't have a chronograph back then though, but penetration was devastating and recoil felt like a magnum although I'm sure there wasn't really much difference in 2 through 4 fg. People would claim I was going to blow up my guns etc., but back in the 70's Lyman pretty much proved it to be hogwash about the pressures relating to 4fg...not that it doesn't increase as it does, but it's not like what many lead others to believe.
I loaded up some 250gr RNFP's with 4FG Goex and was getting 950 fps from a 7.5" barrel.
Once again my 'rule of thumb' that you gain about 300 fps from handgun to carbine holds true. 👍 This alos shows for those naysayers that 45 colt ain't no joke. Never has been so don't tell me your wonder 9 is more powerful that 'that old wild west' load.
I agree 100%
Yes sir! I would rather throw bricks than pins.
I think where both sides of the isle go wrong is the penetration over expansion. A 9mm hollow point can expand well and do a lot of damage while getting decent penetration from modern bullets and powders. 45 colt EXCELS at penetration which is definitely a needed factor in taking down large game.
The original 1870s 45LC black powder load was a 250 grain lead bullet moving at 1,025 fps & around 550 ft/lbs. Now that was a real thumper.
@@PerceptionVsReality333 he has a video already out showing the 40 grain 250 bullet. It’s worth a watch
To add on too my other comment I would love to see this load tested with the original 2f beside these 3f hotrods and then 40 grains of 4F because why not lol would make for a fun video, your videos have really opened my eyes to the capability of black powder in certain cartridges.
Would love to see those hot ass 38 special bp loads you cooked up through a carbine
The one thing I love about black powder is that you can’t overload the cartridge in MODERN firearms and can get reasonable power and performance. The thing I hate is that it’s damned difficult to replicate blackpowder performance in smokeless while keeping in the safe pressure range for modern replicas.
I know exactly how you feel.
The great part about old balloonhead .45 Colt brass being weak is that it prompted Keith to play with the .44 Special, eventually creating the .44 Magnum
I love this channel. Everything about it. All the way from Australia.
thank you
Good video, liked the info. For as I'm concerned Elmer Keith was somewhat a head of his time. Thanks Mr. Keith.I liked the end of your video.
Love this vid bro. I agree with you that you can in many cases get better velocities with BP, without having the high pressure that comes with smokeless. Blackpowder has alot of great uses. Thanks again.
Thank you
There’s something deeply peaceful about leaving early before the wife and kids are up to go kick up some dust. Maybe grabbing a bite on the way home. I rarely skip a month and it makes life a bit more fun. I load an 1860 cap and ball with a 220 grain conical over 40 grains by volume and that thing hits like .357 magnum with 510 fpe. I use it for big critter defense out in the boonies and carry the .36 for self defense since it carries much nicer.
Just occurred to me that I have not seen anyone do the Holy Black in .41 mag. It would be interesting to compare to.38-40.
The marlin 94 numbers are definitely impressive. With a 250gr bullet and 16grs of 2400 out of my 20" 94CB best I can achieve is about 1250. I can crank the heat up a lot more of course, but I have no desire to.
Just an additional bit of information on Elmer's brass failure. Not only were these balloon head cases mercuric primers which attack the brass and weaken its structure. This is why many military labels instructed one to clean the cases in water. I have seen the effects of such old primers for myself, and the deterioration is significant even if the cases are cleaned a few firings will result in unsafe brass.
I clean all my bp cases in water after firing and brush them out too before putting them in a tumbler for cleaning. Combustion of BP produces acids (Sulphuric and Hydorchloric) which will also corrode everything if not promptly cleaned. This is why civilian guns from that era were often both nickel plated (for extra protection) and the insides often used axle grease to keep the corrosion off of the inernal parts.
It would be interesting to see a direct comparison in your Dragoon with this load in the 45 colt cartridge versus in the black powder cylinder, if possible.
Great vid!👍👍 changing and mix matching components that work is great stuff!! Makes the hobby extra fun!! What Keith was about!
Thank you
Your marlin was 400 fps faster you said 300. Very impressed with the rifle results especially.
🤷♂️
Interesting load for the 45 Colt! Thanks for sharing!
Sure thing
Great video. I just loaded some 45 Colt with 250 grain pill and little more then 35 grains. I could see that the bullet would compress the charge. Seeing that you can put a 300 grain pill with same charge concerns me if I should of put more boom dust.
I run 40gr of 3F with a 250gr projectile.
Thanks, I’m gonna throw 40 grains.
ive been looking at the walker loaded with two 148 round balls with 35-40 grains of powder. for blackpowder deer hunting season. still not sure if they would fully penetrate tho. its one of those if you only get one shot and you don't want it running really deep into the woods.
I like the looks of your Ruger. It is interesting how the works of someone like Elmer Keith are still relevant today. Still we are trying how to fire heavier and heavier bullets out of pistols. (Evidence being the 700 gr 500S&W projectile.)
Thank you
Interesting, insightful test, way to go!
Yes indeed, the book Six Guns, is an awesome reference primer. The late insightful Firearms Cartridge pioneer, Elmer Keith, was an inspiration to many including myself with my development of RFN Universal Bullets for cap&ball percussion revolvers.
It's interesting that in the 1850's Colonel Samuel Colt teamed up with General Hazzard from Hazzard Powder company to come up with the most powerful gun powder for cap&ball percussion revolvers. This ultra powerful gun powder was known as " Fine Sporting Revolver Pistol Powder".
The Fine Sporting Revolver & Pistol gunpowder was used in Colt's/ Hazzard's invention of Combustible Paper Cartridges for cap&ball percussion revolvers.
What is interesting is that from what we know of this history in the decades that followed when metallic Cartridges became the main stay , those were Not loaded with the ultra powered Colt's and Hazzard's Fine Revolver Pistol Sporting powder.
As it was said the power factors generated from the Fine Revolver& Pistol powder would compromise the brass casings so (2) FFG granulation gunpowder was generally used.
In today's modern world Hodgdon's Triple Seven 3F powder is said to mimic the power levels of the original Colt- Hazzard invention of Fine Revolver and Pistol Sporting gunpowder.
With the quality production of Starline Brass, I wonder if you might consider loading up some Starline Brass with 30/35/40+grains of Triple Seven 3F powder and test such?
Howdy Mr Ojamaa. I’ve seen videos on your bullets but I’ve never tried them myself but I have heard good things. Thanks you for the comment.
Thoroughly enjoyed that, good information, based on real observation, moved at pace. Thank yo 👍
Seems like a great load to shoot from your converted dragoon revolver. Both for accuracy and power. Thank you for recommending this video. I doubt this load would work in my Howell drop in .45 colt cylinder in my Uberti 1858 new model army revolver though. My 200 grain HSM factory cowboy loads fit just right with the tips of the bullets almost flush with the mouths of the chambers without much room to spare
That is a pretty good amount of compression with a 35gr charge with a 300 grain bullet. It is a good thing those bullets are hard cast! I use a 20:1 alloy and have to compress and seat in two separate steps. Otherwise, I would have a smashed bullet nose.
Your goll darn video scared me so much i wet myself again. Now my girlfriend is making me wear pampers when I watch your videos. Thanks a bunch
Try some fertilizer and a seed.
Grow a pear 🍐.
I have loaded black powder cartridges for decades and competed in matches with my rifles. Don't forget to mention using either a card wad over the powder and make sure the bullet is seated directly upon the powder column or you will create a bomb! A small amount of compression is aslo good especially if your using any other manufacturer of black powder other than Swiss. Goex, Kikki, Elaphant, likes more compression. It will also burn better, with more uniform velocities and less fouling in the gun.
That powder compression is best done as a separate operation to seating the bullet upon the card wad otherwise you can get bullet slump (deformation) when you seat the bullet.
Gun enthusiast or not, everyone should read Elmer Keith's "Hell, I Was There!"
That's about the speed that I load my 45/70 with a 317 gn bullet. Plenty of killing power. One of the advantages of black powder is that it burns very quickly. I think that is why there is little difference between the revolvers. The gain in the lever is probably more from the fact that there is no gap barrel to cylinder.
Tests show a 10% reduction with a .010 cylinder gap. So barrel is contributing more than the loss in gap.
I use 35 gr. of 2f in my 44 magnum 240gr lead bullet loads. Great round.
Love the intro dude, thanks for sharing this with us.
You bet
Great video. I really enjoyed it.
Great video! I've got the same carbine and Bisley except with the 7-1/2" barrel. Same book also!
I've wondered about Black Powder but not enough to get the components. Too messy I guess. I kind of gave up on lead bullets all together sticking with Hornady's 250g JHP and #9 powder.
This was fun to watch - it's been a while since I shot BP Pistols and forgot how much fun they can be. Many Thanks and Best Wishes from Ontario Canada.
Thank you
Great work mate -thanks for your dedication! cheers
Thank you
I really like all the vids youve heen putting out. Keep it up!
Thank you
I'm a big fan of black powder 45 colt loads. I think I'm gonna try that 300 grain load in my pistolero. I dont think I'm gonna try running them threw my opentops tho. Good video thank you
Sir, check out Moose Moulds. They have a bullet that they call the Hollow base Trashcan that I think you will love for your Snider.
I’ll do that
Wow that was pretty cool really like watching your videos 👍🏻🤘🏻
Thank you
@@Everythingblackpowder you are welcome keep making great videos 👍🏻🤘🏻
Will do
Not to take anything away from Mr. Keith, but I remember an article by him stating that shooting animals with a bow was cruel. As a bowhunter, that got my attention. In another article I heard he would shoot mule deer into Hamburger at 600 yds with his pistols just to prove he could hit them.
I’m certainly not familiar with everything he wrote but that does sound rather hypocritical coming from him
@WillardMcBain He had a healthy ego for sure. Definitely had an impact on the shooting world.
Excellent useful information 👍
Thank you
I'm not worried about too much pressure. I'm sure that you know how to read primers. That load you quoted was for a 45-90. A little longer eh. I do have quite a bit of data for the old 45-70 black powder competition. Their tip that I walked away with was the varying bulk and compression. They cut fiber over powder wads and set it for .060 to .100 compression with no crimp. They talked about using a 24" funnel to pack the charge without crushing the grains.
Ps Elmer Keith settled on 250 for 45 colt. He has multiple molds at Lyman with his name on it.
Keep it up. I really enjoy going back to my roots with the black powder.
Hey man I was reading through some newspapers archives, and read a large article about revolvers. It was from the 1890s. At one point the author mentioned a customized type of ammunition that I think would make for a great video. The author says take a 45 colt cartridge and you get a knife or saw and you cut the lead in a cross shape down to the brass. He said that it was a devastating type of ammo but had little accuracy at range. I can send the article if your interested.
Sure
@@Everythingblackpowder whats your email I dont think I can send links reliably over comments
@@Everythingblackpowder where can I send it?
@landonsimpson7839 Everythingblackpowder@gmailcom
@@Everythingblackpowder it should be sent now
(8:19) worth rewatching a few times.
You used FFFg Powder but Keith used FFg I'm still curious about how the results would compare if you did the same test with FFg .
Starline is great.
great loads
Can you please type your iconic catchphrase “bitchin”?
Bitchin
Those sure have an authoritative *"THUMP!"* to them when you shoot them, the camera mic picks it up well. Sounds like what ~850fps with a 300gr projectile _(let alone the whopping 1200fps)_ really ought to.
Thanks!
Whats the stats on 40grains of swiss in 45 colt brass compared to 45 colt smokeless standard load? I have been visiting forums and the info varies greatly.
What primers did you use for the black powder loads. I don’t figure it matters too too much but I always like to play it safe with black powder and I’ve never reloaded with black powder before
Standard Winchester large pistol
I did not note any primers being mentioned. I have a 40-82 1886 and black powder loads there recommended a Winchester Large Rifle Magnum primer for maximum consistency etc.
If that works for you. These are standard primers and they work swell
@@Everythingblackpowder which brand of primers?
Winchester
@@Everythingblackpowder Thank you, Sir!
You're going to have to explain, in precise detail, how LED bullet Lube doesn't work for either smokeless or black powder? There should be no functional difference, and the smokeless Lube should work at least as well as the black powder lube.
With a 300 grain projectile, those are some competent loads, and very very consistent.
lol it should huh? Try it sometime
This was interesting Jake, I never would have considered changing out the lube, I'll have to investigate this further before I load any with BP. Also your comment about better velocity with BP has me interested. I've been trying to load .45 Colt in a 12 Ga. adapter (Rifled), adapter is only 3" long so I can't seem to get the bullets to stabilize. Tried 5 different bullets & multiple charges of smokeless so far and they just tumble all over. I was thinking I might have to cut them down to .45 Cowboy Special to get some better acceleration. Any advice. Mike.
I don’t think blackpowder will help in that situation. It might make it worse since the barrel/chamber is only 3 inch
@@Everythingblackpowder It's currently a low priority project, I've tried 250, 230, 200, 195 & 185 Gr. bullets with multiple charges. Starting off at scratch again. Next range trip will be with .454 Roundball. After that I'll decide if I want to cut some brass down. Thanks. Mike.
That would be like a 45 snub nosed revolver. Use the lightest bullet and the starting load of the fastest powder. Try 200 gr cast with 5.6 gr of clays. It's too short for black powder but you can try. Try slugging to get bore diameter. That may fix the accuracy issue.
@@Michael-rg7mx Thanks for your interest, I've tried most of that, stay tuned for the update video on what I have tried. Thanks Michael.
Hey, just curious what would two grains be on a normal scale like that?
Do you ever use SPG lube? It looks like your home made lube, which I have used at times. I use SPG in my Lyman lubrisizer for all my cast bullets. Works slick, so to speak.
I’ve been using SPG lately. I can’t say it works any better or worse than my homemade stuff but it’s available and lambs tallow isn’t.
Any idea what that powder charge is by volume? You did it by weight but BP is supposed to be measured by volume. Granted you can do it by weight for consistency once you figure out the weight of a particular charge.
It’s practically the same.
th-cam.com/video/IPbC1XvpY3M/w-d-xo.htmlsi=_AYmLH8AMhIlUdvk
@@Everythingblackpowder Ok. I was just curious. I do the 'ol plowboy load but not with a 300 grain bullet. The 300 grainers are too long to cycle in my '73 Winchester reproduction.
Thank you for not calling a.45a LONG Colt! My .45 SHORT Colt ain’t half bad. Modern influencers bore me!
Although, I would subscribe if you just showed a group? I’m sure that is more beneficial than “ slug” speed. Carry on
Feel free to try it yourself
@@Everythingblackpowder is that directed at me? I gave you a complement, you tube influencer! Do you know how many refer to .45 Colt as “ the Long Colt”? Sheesh. I lauded you. Pfft, read before you get defensive, sodbuster! Nite nite
What are the over all length of these rounds and did you have to trim your brass for the 300 grain rounds?
If you had to unlimber that colt in a building or closed space on an (active shooter ) it would be deafening and terrifying to a bad guy !and that 300 grn slug on a sternum would be devastating to the bad guy . M.B.
Definitely
Today I will test 12/70 with 68grejns of 3f with 25gr of shot ;) should be hot as hell but clays are always tooooo fast ;)
It was kaaaaboooom :) 4.3ccm lee deeper does a job!
I wonder if these would be safe in an colt 1873 or clones.
I don’t see why it wouldn’t be
I have the new Vaquero do you think my Ruger is ok 35 gr 300 grain Bullet? as i trust Ruger firearms! and love them!
I wouldn’t be afraid to try it
If you did the same test but used a 225 grain cast Bullet, what you think the velocity would be out of your marlin 94, that’s what I been shooting but was wondering what the velocity is I don’t have a crony graph, thanks great video
I think a 225gr, 40gr 3f load would be in the 1100s out of the Marlin
interesting!
Im young and just recently bought a single action army and Id like to load black powder rounds. Where can can I find lead bullets for reloading. Like where do you go and what specifically do you get. Also I know I need primers, casings, powder and lube. Is there anything else? I plan on using a lee loader until I upgrade
I would recommend Rim rock bullets and desperado cowboy for projectiles. You can order them online.
Could you tell me how you melt the smokeless lube off the bullets please. I’ve tried picking it out with a tooth pick but it takes an age. Do you boil it out? I can’t imagine using a naked flame. Your answer would be much appreciated. Thank you.
Heat gun or the oven is what I usually use
If you try pyrodex P i stead of swiss, you probably get more velocity.
I’m sure it would but I’ve split cases when compressing pyrodex too much
@@Everythingblackpowder have you tried annealing your brass? I find that helps stop case splitting.
I find it helps to stop using pyrodex 😉
@@Everythingblackpowder lol! Pyrodex gets a bad rap, i know. Personally tho, i have been using pyrodex for decades, and i have not had any problems with it what so ever. Using pyrodex was not really a choice i made. For many years, long ago, pyrodex was about all there was if anybody wanted to shoot muzzle loaders. Thats just how it was in those days. Once i was able to find traditional black powder, i found it was much more expensive than pyrodex, and did not compress as well as pyrodex. Ive used pyrodex so much over the last 40 years, that ive grown use to it, and actually prefer it to traditional black powder. What ive discovered about pyrodex is, it generally has higher velocity, its cleaner burning, and you get more shots per pound than traditional black powder. Dont get me wrong, traditional black powder is good stuff, and i enjoy it, but pyrodex is better. Ive been using it to load brass cartridges for a long time. Sam Fadala has written many good books about it, and Dan Pawlak was a smart guy.
@@blueduck9409 yeah, I used pyrodex for a lot of years but when I got into flintlocks and started making my own black powder I pretty much quit using pyrodex. I have to disagree about it being better overall compared to real black powder. I would say it’s better than most black powders but it certainly doesn’t beat Swiss in the fouling and ease of cleaning, In my not so humble opinion.
Impressive
they say to use the alox so you don't lead the sizing tube. But really, who cares. it's made for running lead through it, lol.
that's impressive power for a black powder anything
Thank you. We thought the same thing
You don't use a scale to weigh blackpowder. You use a scoop.
Incorrect.
Hay try this out 3030win. With a full case of 3f black powder and 110 gr. Lead bullet gas check. I find it to shot very good 5round group of 1.5 at 100 yards . See what you think. Get back to me ok
That’s funny. I just tried a 115gr powder coated bullet with 42.5gr of 3F Swiss and it was just as terrible as the lead rounds.
Teetering on the need for a gas check in the marlin?
Yes, definitely
could you explain how black powder pistol design allows the cylinder to keep freely spinning despite all he fowling?
Yup. Powder compression and a good black powder bullet lube makes all the difference in the world.
If your refering to the guns arbor, grease it up good before assembling the cylinder to the frame.
The correct lube of about a 50/50 mix of lambs talliw and beeswax is about perfect. You can also use ready made commercial made Wonder lube also named Bore Butter. These keep the powder fowling soft for many shots and aids greatly in accuracy and eady cleaning.
Either clwan the oils out of your gun before shooting or strickly use those lubes exclusively for shooting, loading black powder. It is also a natural preservative that seasons the metal, much like when using a cast iron skillet.
Along with what previous post stated, DO NOT use any petroleum based lubes/oils. They make the fowling from blackpowder hard to remove, will gum up your gun and cause malfunctions.
black powder fingers
👊
I don't think you can throw a ping pong ball fast enough to really hurt me....I think you can with a golf ball, and I don't think you have to even try hard to do it with a bowling ball or a shot put. Just something to think about.
You don't weigh black powder by weight you measure it by volume
It works both ways, Try it sometime.
It kicks like old woman!
You can bang around the black powder all you want, that’s all you’re gonna get out of the 45 and you should really should know that, And I am sure you do. The big change comes when you go to smokeless powder. Here’s a test for you take a Ruger super Blackhawk 44 magnum and make your hottest, heaviest loads, log the results, And then work up a 45 colt load in a Ruger Blackhawk until you start flattening primers. We were going to find there’s a 44 magnum cannot even come close to the power of a Colt 45: The 45 can easily exceed the power of a 44 magnum all the while using less pressure to do it. I can tell you’re new at this because you don’t seem to understand the pressure diameter curve, but you’re on the right track hang in there and you’ll do good. Just don’t sound so confident yet.
👃👃👃
Blowing up Single Action Army revolvers in .45 Colt is what ultimately led Elmer Keith to experimenting with the .44 Special and the eventual development of .44 Magnum.
Losing his trigger finger when a Colt SAA cylinder finally gave way probably added impetus to the choice. There is a Colt SAA in the NRA museum with a burst cylinder recovered from the scene of a battle between an army patrol and some Indians, so apparently the strength of the steels used by Colt (coupled with their placement of the cylinder notch) has been an issue since the beginning of the design. Colt didn't start using High Carbon steel until about the 1900s due to smokeless powder creating the need for that steel. I believe 1902 is when they first started proof testing with smokeless powder and placing the VP proof stamp on their SAAs (but not on their 1902 double actions which are made of low carbon steel from left over 1878 stock).
Since we have youngsters. 45 colt had a thinner wall and it blew. 44 special held
The ĺoads. I use e Blackhawk.
The cylinder walls on 45 colt are naturally thinner than the same size cylinder bored to .429 ,especially near the bolt stop.
For the thicker walls, not because the 44 was the better cartridge.
@@marktwain2053 Thicker chamber walls and better brass (.45 Colt brass at the time was all balloon head cases, not good for high pressure loads).
Gotta love Elmer: “The top strap and cylinder departed the gun, finishing up in the bronc corral.”
Looks like a somewhat compressed load at 35 gr / 3f. Some who aren’t familiar with 45 Colt history may still wonder at old expressions involving “40 grains of powder,” but the .45 Colt case back in the day was a different animal than the solid head cases of the present, and would hold more powder.
The new 45 Colt cases hold 40grs just fine. Well, except the Hornadys…
I really love black powder.
Unfortunately, in my country you need a special "explosives" licence to legally own the stuff (smokeless propellants can be owned if you have a licenced centre fire firearm)
The solution (since 10 years old😁😁) is to make my own. That smell will ALLWAYS put a smile on my face!
Great video. BP is dirtier and smoky but it's been sending projectiles from brass and iron for a Long Time.
Neat. Lots of interesting information and a great comment from Arnold. Sure glad Elmer made the effort and took the time to document what he knew and had experience with. Maybe there should be a National Keith Appreciation Day, where we celebrate the man with shooting events, and a moment of silence for all those like him and others. Keep your enthusiasm and the informative videos going. O.R.
You can put a tiny bit of mink oil or unique case lube to resize, highly recommend since Ive leaded up my .309 die sizing .312's. Cant wait to try a 45colt black powder load in my blackhawk.
I've been reloading smokeless powder cartridges since the mid 90's but know very little about blk powder.. How does fouling differ in loading metallic black power cartridges Vs cap & ball? Would I be correct to think most fouling is contained in the cartridge & less in the cylinder & barrel? Thanks
What fouling ends up in the chamber of your cap and ball pistol ends up in the spent case and down the barrel. Cartridge guns seem to make a little less fouling. I suspect it’s because they make more pressure and do a better job of burning the powder than a cap and ball does.
Back in the '70's I was shooting a 7 1/2" Ruger in .45 Colt. After reading some of Elmer Keith's works I determined to compress load my SOLID HEAD Winchester Cases with FFFg black powder and cast (original profile) 255 grain lead bullets. Took them to the police range and ran through the PPC course, firing 60 rounds, 7 yards back to 50 yards.
Having been use to running the course of fire with .38 Spl. 148 grain wadcutters, that turned out to be a work out. To top it off, I could not touch the revolvers barrel after the first 30 rounds. Needless to say, that was the last time I shot that course of fire with that revolver and that load.
Really enjoyed watching your testing the old Keith load.
Thank you
I thought this video was awesome and I’m still gonna make my own video.😂👊
If you did think it sucked, well then make your own damn video ...!! Lmfao 🤪 ..!
move 2 feet closer to the chrono and you want have to lean in to read it, good show!