+Alexplus20 I have removed JM's comments. I'm all for a lively discussion with plenty of room for disagreement, but his comments crossed the line over into hate speech.
Depaul in Chicago didnt offer his deserved tenure because of Zionists like Dorschewitz but granted the phsychology dept head to someone who helped design torture techniques
You have to admire Finkelstein; a self proclaimed nerd with a clear objective whose argument is sharper than the finest blade. What I love about Norman is that he is so transparent. You know exactly what he is thinking by the expression on his face. Every time someone says something on a topic, his face lights up like a bill board clearly flashing his thoughts. No wonder he has to be so concise in what he says; he is as easy to read as a book. If he slightly deviated from his accurate narrative, any amateur politician could take advantage of his honesty, twist his words and slaughter him. Norman is a national treasure. Wish there were more Finkelsteins in the world.
The same Finkelstein that blamed the US for 9/11 and made the 'chickens coming home to roost' argument? Thankfully Christopher Hitchens called him out as well as Ali, Chomsky and all others that blame the West for Islamofascism.
I think he's actually better now. He used to try so hard not to give an opinion especially on which actions would work or why some wouldn't. It was all about the facts. Just the facts.
If Norman Finkelstein was in negotiation team like Yitzahk rabian he will be assassinated, Israeli make living by war and show fear and feed amerian that kind cry wolf, to have billions dollar and Netenyahou know only by war he can pay for his election , there is no money in Peace for Israeli free loader,
I have to keep pausing this to take it all in, to cry, to rage! I am sick to my stomach with all this! Thankfully videos like this and others on the internet will open more eyes. I am not wise or as intelligent as these men, and other men and women who daily speak for the suffering and injustice that has gone on far too long in Palestine, but I am so very grateful to them for waking me from my deluded slumber. Thank you for this video!
Bring on Jeremy Corbyn, George Galloway , Noam Chomsky, Chris Hedges, Amy Goodman and friends! That would be some eye and ear opening discussion to have for all!
Norman Finkelstein explained clearly & concisely the P/I issues, dilemmas, and strategies. And as a bonus, ditto for the meaning and strategy of Gandhi's ' 'non-violent' ' tactics. He is truly a brilliant thinker.
Tariq Ali and Norman FInkelstein. Two idols of mine. Two juggernaut intellectuals who dole out truth trips wherever they're needed. Interesting fact: I'm almost certain the Rolling Stones rock band wrote their classic song "Street Fighting Man" loosely based on Tariq Ali.
Tariq's "truth trip" in this debate has a glitch - check out this article on Tariq's assertions about Hitler and the Peace Prize Shortlist: www.theguardian.com/theguardian/2003/feb/22/guardianletters Norman has always urged us to question the authority.... :-D
It's absolutely shameful how the rest of the world are allowing this to happen. Human soul is getting weaker and weaker exactly because we don't stand up for justice. I can't find the words to describe how sad it makes me to think what happened to our hearts... Our values.. I'm just so disappointed that crimes against humanity as this can still take place on this planet and people can't relate or feel the pain because it's not happening to them.
Unfortunatly the majority of people in Israel are brainwashed and radicalised zionists who lost every sense of rationality and compassion. They are nationalists who are extremly negative and corrupted when it comes to Palestinians. Massive respect to Finkelstein, i really love listening to him as he is a very good and intelligent man who stands and fights for justice and the truth. Ali Tariq deserves a lot of credit as well.
How zionsit can say Nazi was a criminal , when they are doing the same killing innocent , no one should be wonder why holocaust survivor, Dr Mat Gabor quoted Beautiful dream of Israel has become a nightmare | As a Jewish youngster growing up in Budapest, an infant survivor of the holocaust ...
The dialogue about the two groups hating on each other is a true example of the subject being brought up about the names on the bombs. The hatred is so thick. I was there in 2014. I saw some things that told me I would never return to Israel. As a human being the Warcrimes illegal settlements the treatment of the children teenagers the elderly. It is a sin. Shame on you Israel. This is what is meant to me "going off the cliff".
How zionsit can say Nazi was a criminal , when they are doing the same killing innocent , no one should be wonder why holocaust survivor, Dr Mat Gabor quoted Beautiful dream of Israel has become a nightmare | As a Jewish youngster growing up in Budapest, an infant survivor of the holocaust ...
"... interviewed a young girl, about 14 or 15 years old, in a Palestinian refugee camp (in Beirut), and asked her what she would say to an Israeli child her own age. 'I would strangle them' she replied. Why? 'Because I saw on Israeli television, as they were bombing Gaza, kids were writing their names on the bombs about to be dropped. This was mainstream Israeli t.v.'"
How zionsit can say Nazi was a criminal , when they are doing the same killing innocent , no one should be wonder why holocaust survivor, Dr Mat Gabor quoted Beautiful dream of Israel has become a nightmare | As a Jewish youngster growing up in Budapest, an infant survivor of the holocaust ...
Thanks for the upload. No country in the world could get away so easily with slaughter, destruction and repression as the Israeli government has committed and is committing in Gaza and the West Bank: the blockade of Gaza, the hundreds of checkpoints in the West Bank, the illegal wall built within Palestinian territory on the West Bank, the illegal Jewish settlements - inhabited by half a million - which are entangled almost inextricably on the West Bank, the driving of Palestinians out of Jerusalem so that their population in that city has been amputated exponentially. The world does nothing about these crimes, daunted by the cynical Israeli exploitation of continuing guilt about the slaughter of Jews in the Holocaust.
after the isis and their other arab friends will destroy your country you ll cry to your leaders to learn from the israelies how to defend yourself. unldss it ll be too late.
the knowledge of facts is not so important, i see u write old stories in details. what is important its how do u see the reality and your beliefs. about the people in this area. i believe that the jews has the right to live in this area in peace, and the arabs dont want peace at all. all the historic stories about some groups and other secret stories not interest me at all/
Don’t say “Arab” when you mean Palestinian. Arab is a wider term, encompassing an entire ethnic group and bloc of countries. Palestinians are a distinct group within the Pan-Arab world, with their own unique culture, customs, and Arabic dialect. Use the appropriate term in the appropriate context, rather than making blanket statements about wider groups than you intend.
i suggest u to be concentrate in the present and the future of europe rather than speak about a group of some jews who lived in israel or in london or in viena before 70 years. / how those jews connect to the problems here and now with our arabs here in the middle east? i suggest u instead of looking with projector on israel-ass, to look behind your ass where the muslims gother aroud u.
u can be a teacher of anything u want. it doesnt change your twisted ideas about jews/ zionism is the idea of self deternination of jews in their old place, and gothered all the jewish refugees all over the world to be together and defened themselves. also among the nazis were teachers and doctors and profesors. education is not always sign for good heart or high moral.
I wish the world would listen & react to what is happening here more than they are , we boycotted South Africa back in the day , please help this cause
Brillant meeting, useful to raise consciousness and activate progressive thinking. What makes people move to fight what everyone know is wrong and destructive to the majority of us.
Based on what we heard Norman say about Gandhi in this video, can someone explain to me how Tariq Ali arrived at an assertion that Norman's picture of Gandhi is IDEALIZED?: "I must say my views on Gandhi, coming from that subcontinent, are very different from the idealized picture which has been developed of him not just by Norm but by western society as a whole".
I personally admire Norman a lot for his courage and endless dedication to a worthy cause but being from the sub continent myself, I totally agree with Tariq Ali in fact, I would even go as far as to say that many South Asians also have a distorted and narrow perception of Gandhi though not as much as people in the west. The only credit that one can give Gandhi in all fairness is that he could mobilize the public and that's pretty much the beginning and the end of it. When Norman makes this claim (as he has in many videos) that Gandhi was deeply concerned for the poor people of India and brought out their ailments what he fails to recognize is that Gandhi himself was a firm believer of hierarchical supremacy of the few over the many. In the west, most people don't even know how utterly racist he was to even his own fellow Indians in South Africa let alone the South African blacks. You have to read his own writings to know how deeply he believed in the supremacy of caste that is even more dangerous than racism itself because it gets sanctioned by religion. He only decided to lure a major portion of the Indian society that was disenfranchised so that it could prevent the land from getting divided otherwise just as many lower caste Hindus were being brutalized and murdered by their own people and he justified their cultural slavery and humiliation because he believed that God intended for them to be placed in a subservient role which is something he openly admitted to in his works. Those subservient roles are so humiliating and alienating that most people can never even imagine. Another misconception about Gandhi is that he despised the British which isn't true he was positively enamored by them till as late as 1918 I believe.That's the real Gandhi in short unlike the hollywood version of him or the deified version of him in South Asian literature.
Thanks for that post! Correct me if I'm wrong? Isn't true that he was racist towards South African blacks at first but the changed his views after he was imprisoned? Other than that. Thanks for the post, interesting bits of info!
Unfortunately that's not true. He was practically mortified at being placed in the same prison cell as the South African blacks. This is how he recounts his prison experience, “We were marched off to a prison intended for Kaffirs. There, our garments were stamped with the letter “N”, which meant that we were being classed with the Natives. We were all prepared for hardships, but not quite for this experience. We could understand not being classed with the whites, but to be placed on the same level with the Natives seemed too much to put up with.” He called them savages and animals that could have an unhealthy influence on the Indians sharing their cells.Not to mention how he said he believed in the purity of his race just as much as the South African whites did. Now I understand it must come as a surprise to many though not to those who know how Gandhi ardently supported the caste system in his own land where caste happens to determine your future and place in the society. What Gandhi did was that he glorified the role of those he called scavengers, who were divinely ordained to perform acts of great humiliation at the behest of the upper caste minority and to derive satisfaction out of their cultural enslavement for performing their service to God. He forcefully supported and sugarcoated that pyramidal structure of power instead of demolishing it and that's also why he has always been the darling of the upper caste ruling elite of India.
I respect Norman for making a point of championing Ghandi's political IQ in left-wing forums where his memory treated as a persona non grata. The idea that political change begins with mobilizing people to act on what they know in their hearts to be true is a damn good point to understand in my opinion.
Israel is a Rogue Nation committing serious violations of international law. The Washington, DC-based Israel Law Resource Center, reports such violations include collective punishment, apartheid barriers, illegal acquisition of land by force, ethnic cleansing, Israeli settlements in Palestinian territory-and disregard of some 28 resolutions of the UN Security Council. These are violation of human rights, recognized around the world. BDS brings awareness and a call for action, that has a real track record of success. Stephen Hawking says, "anyone can answer big questions." Stephen Hawking has joined BDS and will not speak in Israel. Stop a mad man, who will keep replacing those who have a conscience, with those hardliners who have war crimes, as a mind set, like himself.
Way back on March 31, 1977, the Dutch newspaper Trouw published an interview with Palestine Liberation Organization executive committee member Zahir Muhsein. Here’s what he said: The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct “Palestinian peop Read more at www.wnd.com/2002/07/14501/#AVhU1rlP5FIoiJLw.99 www.wnd.com/2002/07/14501/
I see a Starbucks (one of the biggest supporter of Israel) coffee cup behind Tariq Ali. I just heard Tariq Ali mention why South African Apartheid was destroyed! Awesome! No one knows about this it seems.
Great to see this here on TH-cam land. My concern is how much of an audience is this getting other than this channel, 'Real News' and possibly some at college campuses (across the states hopefully)? How to get through the media conglomerate$ seems a challenge, though some public tv channels have been airing few shows that have such open mindedness, like 'democracynow' -- Meanwhile part of the problem may be too much info and sources in social media/internet in our current e-world?... Either way, too little or too much, the focus to get the majority informed with truth would be a very worthwhile effort. Thanks for posting this video !
You're welcome. Thank you for raising this issue. I plan to do a one-hour edit and air this on my cable access TV network: othervoicesotherchoices.blogspot.com/p/about-show.html Also, I've uploaded the audio to Radio4All, aka the a-Infos Radio Project, where it is available for download by radio stations etc. But I have no way of knowing how many stations (if any) have aired it. My guess is several. And this link may be of interest to those wanting to see such videos find a larger audience: othervoicesotherchoices.blogspot.com/p/bring-ovoc-to-your-tv.html
Love both of these intellectuals and it's great to hear them talking in the same room. Although, am I the only one that found it funny to see a Starbucks Latte in the background whilst two life long Palestinian activists attend a talk?
There have been several comments regarding the now-infamous Starbucks cup, but at some point I deleted them because they were distracting from more pertinent commentary. The cup belonged to the guy standing behind Norman (See 7:44 in the video). Oddly enough, I just saw (and spoke with) that guy at the UNAC conference in Richmond, VA.
The Netanyahu army, IDF, is exercising a price tag, something I'm sure the settlers picked up from him. Netanyahu was at the border speaking to his superior IDF soldiers. I saw the picture of his visit and that was followed by the resistance firing shots, a lucky shot. Can't have that!!! Time for collective punishment. Payback, as if the Palestinians didn't already have enough problems with raw sewage water flooding and destroying homes and farmland. Now women and children will pay with their lives. They are trapped in an open-air prison. Though they see themselves as fatherly figures, slapping grown men around as if they were children, the IDF represents a cowardly progression towards world domination. Consider the words of a settler arrested for throwing rocks. She sees the Jews as a "light unto the gentiles". She was not seriously punished for throwing rocks at a car with Palestinians inside. She is, after all, a Jewish settler and "light unto the gentiles." Jimmy Carter correctly called Israel an apartheid Nation worse than South Africa.
What is disturbing is how Norman Finkelstein seeks to impose the European white revisionist history of Mahatma Gandhi instead of listening to critical voices of Gandhi from left wing academics who were actually born in the region like Tariq Ali and Arundhati Roy
God this man Finkelstein how smart is and how wise he talks, he is the real defender of the Jews, and loyal to the Jews who do not wish, they become named as devil of century, they should not walk against humanity and their own history who mad up suffered when are suffering Palestinian , just as they said Nazi did,
I think it was easy to get swept up in the frenzy that surrounded Sanders. He talked the talk. But I was always turned off by his foreign policy positions, and besides, we need a party and a movement, not just a personality. I would like to hear their thoughts on him now that it's obvious he was nothing more than a sheepdog.
so we're waiting for Palestinian kids to line up on the beach with signs asking the world to remove the blockade. It has to be the kids since they are the future of the movement. Hamas can't compete with them.
+Greg ari People like you are the reason the rest of the world won't support Israel. Keep doing it. We need more people to take a stand for protection of human rights.
What does that have to do with removal of an illegal blockade? Or your racist views? I don't have conversations with racists in everyday life so I'm done with you.
What Liebermann suggested I totally the opposite from ethnic cleansing. He proposes that the Israeli Arab villages stay where they are today. The people will stay at the same houses on the same land but the border line between Israel and the Palestinian authority will be moved so they will be included in the Palestinian authority their brothers and their people the problem is that most of them want to stay as Israeli citizens makes you wonder why !!!!!
The speaker said, "Forty thousand tons of explosives were dropped on the city of Gaza." That is equal to 40 million pounds. I don't believe that for a minute. How many planes would it take over how much time to transport that many pounds of bombs? To me that is absurd and therefore I believe he is either very ignorant of the facts or is an outright deceiver.
The Daniel S. Abraham Center for Peace, run by former Democratic Florida congressman Robert Wexler, ran a newspaper advertisement in the Friday edition of the New York Times, calling for immediate separation of Israelis and Palestinians into separate countries to keep Israel as a Jewish majority state. “It’s Time for Separation,” the advertisement explains. “Separation today means a Jewish majority, State of Israel now and for Generations ahead.” Isn't this what crap detection is all about? Alabama Gov. George Wallace put it: “Segregation now! Segregation tomorrow! Segregation forever!” Democrats can't even use the word occupation in their platform or anywhere else actually. AIPAC is so powerful, most candidates shudder at what their support or lack of can mean to their future. Unfortunately, Hillary Clinton may do what the New York Governor has done and legislate laws that take away our civil rights with respect to BDS a nonviolent organization attempting to free the Palestinians from a brutal occupation. History has taught us that criminalizing civil society and outlawing ideas, especially those that are guided by moral principles, is never a good idea. Netanyahu is legislating laws against his own people who oppose his Likud party war crimes. And Hillary Clinton, who opposes BDS, will most certainly attempt to at least emulate the New York governor.
Danny Danon who is going to chair the General Assembly's legal panel, engaging on questions of international law, is particularly opposed to all legally binding resolutions of the UNSC and farther right-wing than Netanyahu. Danon's chairmanship of the Sixth Committee isn't a confused United Nations, it sadly doesn't even fly in the face of reality for a U.N. that has done nothing but talk about Israel’s misbehavior. Richard Falk, the former UN Special Rapporteur, said the appointment of Danon was "particularly ironic because he is a militant settler leader and the settlements themselves are a violation of international law." and it just isn't going to be David Pressman to stand up for justice for humanity or AGAINST the crimes of Israel. I FEEL THE SAME ABOUT ROBERT WEXLER, FORMER CONGRESSMAN FROM FLORIDA AND ALSO FROM A RICH JUDAIC TRADITION. HE ISN'T GOING TO ALLOW EVEN THE WORD OCCUPATION TO BE USED IN THE DEMOCRATIC PLATFORM. CAN YOU BELIEVE HE IS NOW THE PRESIDENT FOR MIDDLE EAST PEACE? BLIND , DEAF, AND DUMB IS WHAT ISRAEL AND AIPAC HAVE IN MIND FOR THE AMERICAN PEOPLE.
Movements die when representatives of movement Don't understand the situation,if they betray their promises, that's what happened to Palestinian movement although i don't read anything regarding Palestine or Israel, yesterday i listened a video clip of Ghassano kanafani in which he was saying we will fight till the last blood ....... unfortunately very unfortunately opposite happening like Tariq Ali said
Diplomacy is a dead end...The other strategy...the armed struggle, the armed resistance of Hamas, the Palestinians...Now, in International Law, nothing under International Law debars the Palestinians from using armed force to end the occupation. For me, that is not an important question. Legally they have the right ...morally they have the right...!
If you ever read the old testament you know what kind of god they worship, a mad spirit, narcissistic, egotistical deity which did not hesitate to commad the destruction of anyone that was not part of his chosen people or adept to the religious beliefs, even kids or new born, people read this shit and ignore the sadistic tendencies of the so called Jehovah, me being a former Christian who was fanatical can assure you this is common shit for them. The difference? A different century.
Why Tariq Ali, you've got it all wrong, all those settlements being built, the world is letting the Jews build them so that the Palestinians will have something to go home to. God is most powerful and he thinks of everything. There are no accident Tariq Ali, God has this well in hand, HE'S SPOKEN FOR PALESTINE. Have faith. Palestine will prevail, in the end, Palestine will prevail. God will lead the world to truth as he always has. In the end, evil will fall.
Wait???The Cuban army brought down the parts are in South Africa??This is a lie!!
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And the whole world stands by yet again with their heads buried in the sand - aparthied, torture, lack of humanity and a prolonged haulacaust of the Palestinian people.
I'm for BDS, but my local market sold jars of Israeli fish balls,$8.50 each, for $1.99,on clearance. I bought 6 jars with no regrets except one must believe if the Palestinians were allowed to fish, theirs would be much cheaper, to begin with. Does it exemplify the true reality that the occupation is about money now, and down the line for Netanyahu, and the Israelis? I think it is fair to ask when did killing, and imprisoning Palestinians become part of the business of income for Israel? Just like in the movie, The Island, we see a man and a privileged people abusing what has been given to them.
And Israel is that man. The spoilt brat of international politics. Now complaining that everyone hates him... all the while getting nothing but freebies and gifts from all nations.
Not A good comparison to use South Africa considering the current complete degeneration of their entire political and physical infrastructure. South Africa is circling the drain. They have no more water. Their parliament breaks into fistfights during their debates. And the blacks down there resort to violence towards each other in tribal warfare and also into brutal genocide on the white farmers in the countryside. It is a complete tragedy. what has happened in that country. Millions of lives are at stake. The ANC was given the keys to the kingdom and It threw them down, pulled down their pants, and squatted over them to release a massive foul avalanche of turds.
Palestinian liberation organization recognized Israel. What did they get? More settlements control of water electricity and small enclaves of towns that aren’t connected. All of that is silly and worthless. Has Israel recognized that Palestinians are humans. Answer is No!
Regor Snitram You clearly are not familiar with history, you cowardly fool. 1948 Israel became a state. So, back to your trailer home, you Jew hating, low information, cowardly, envious fuck.
ds Nope, there has been a "state of israel" - it is a myth There is only an "illegally occupied Palestine" which the whole world has been dealing with through the UN since 1947 The whole world hates the people who call themselves "israel" and "zionist" and they are hated for VERY good reason The whole world says "F U C K israel" pal Go take a cry at your wall and then go push the "Samson Option" button, save us all the trouble of doing it for you
ds zionists HATE JEWS - the whole world agrees Jews HATE zionists - ALL Jews agree israel is a myth, there is no such thing - there is only an illegally occupied Palestine - Albert Einstein
Regor Snitram Hey fuck nut, there sure as hell is an Israel. Unlike you, who cannot find it on a map, I have been there. Yup, it is real alright. ALL Jews have Zionists? ALL Zionists hate Jews. Well, aren't you a fucking moron.
I have all the time in the World for listening to Norman Finkelstein and Tariq Ali
I condemn every academic institution that has not offered Norman a professorship.
SteveRunciman he doesn't need one
+Alexplus20 I have removed JM's comments. I'm all for a lively discussion with plenty of room for disagreement, but his comments crossed the line over into hate speech.
Alexplus20 You sir are disgusting
Academic Institutions condemned themselves.
Depaul in Chicago didnt offer his deserved tenure because of Zionists like Dorschewitz but granted the phsychology dept head to someone who helped design torture techniques
Norman Finkelstein is a global hero. So smart, articulate and intelligent. They should listen to him.
Listening to Norman is always an inspiration.
VPIPpro Norman is banned from entering Israel and thus from owning land there, if that is what you were implying.
I survived 3 bombing attacks in Dresden in 45.
Bwhahaha
something is wrong with you
Always a pleasure to hear Dr. Finkelstein speak. And Tariq Ali needs to be heard more also.
I ve been listening carefully and the man lies.
There is no example hahaha
You have to admire Finkelstein; a self proclaimed nerd with a clear objective whose argument is sharper than the finest blade. What I love about Norman is that he is so transparent. You know exactly what he is thinking by the expression on his face. Every time someone says something on a topic, his face lights up like a bill board clearly flashing his thoughts. No wonder he has to be so concise in what he says; he is as easy to read as a book. If he slightly deviated from his accurate narrative, any amateur politician could take advantage of his honesty, twist his words and slaughter him. Norman is a national treasure. Wish there were more Finkelsteins in the world.
The same Finkelstein that blamed the US for 9/11 and made the 'chickens coming home to roost' argument? Thankfully Christopher Hitchens called him out as well as Ali, Chomsky and all others that blame the West for Islamofascism.
Norman Finkelstein is as fabulous here as ever! Love him. :-D
I think he's actually better now. He used to try so hard not to give an opinion especially on which actions would work or why some wouldn't. It was all about the facts. Just the facts.
Yes he is and fair. I wish he was on the negotiating team. We would then get a solution.
been a fan of normans for some time but i actually liked Tariq Ali a little more here.
Dolceliana Me too
If Norman Finkelstein was in negotiation team like Yitzahk rabian he will be assassinated, Israeli make living by war and show fear and feed amerian that kind cry wolf, to have billions dollar and Netenyahou know only by war he can pay for his election , there is no money in Peace for Israeli free loader,
I have to keep pausing this to take it all in, to cry, to rage!
I am sick to my stomach with all this!
Thankfully videos like this and others on the internet will open more eyes.
I am not wise or as intelligent as these men, and other men and women who daily speak for the suffering and injustice that has gone on far too long in Palestine, but I am so very grateful to them for waking me from my deluded slumber.
Thank you for this video!
Thank you for your kind words, and for having the integrity to have an open mind.
Other Voices, Other Choices No, thank YOU! I cannot say that enough!
Sick of the Jew-hatred that is the norm around here?
You are really beyond hope! By the way why did you change your name?
Tess Morand Who are you addressing?
God bless you Dr. Norman for your courage and support for oppressed people every where. 🙏
Bring on Jeremy Corbyn, George Galloway , Noam Chomsky, Chris Hedges, Amy Goodman and friends! That would be some eye and ear opening discussion to have for all!
...also Cornell West, Miko Peled, Phyllis Bennis, ...there are too many more!
Not Galloway, please.
+kovvvas Why not. He has been a Palestian advocate for more than 30 years. His voice should be heard.
Some of the greats mentioned there
Norm is as concise as ever! Finally, an influential Jew speaks the truth!
Norman Finkelstein , THE MAN, THE LEGEND
Thanks for the upload.
You're welcome. Media activism is a real joy when my subjects are two such engaging and informative speakers.
Three great Free men (hearts and minds}: Tariq Ali, Norman Finkelstein and Paul Jay. Thank you for your humanity!
I love these two, Tariq Ali and Norman Finkelstein. So glad Real News is there too.
MANY thanks to Paul Jay and the RealNews for making this event possible! :-D
The truth will always prevail. Thanks Gentlemen.
Thanks. It was a pleasure watching Norm and Tariq.
Thanks a lot for the upload! Enjoyed this immensely
You're welcome. Glad you liked it. These 2 guys are among my very favorites.
Norman is so cute i don't know if this adjective is applied for any other lecturer before
Free Palestine!! - From Australia
This is too heavy. The "refrigerator" made me cry. I don't know how Tariq and Norman deal with the trauma of activism.
Norman Finkelstein explained clearly & concisely
the P/I issues, dilemmas, and strategies.
And as a bonus, ditto for the meaning and strategy
of Gandhi's ' 'non-violent' ' tactics.
He is truly a brilliant thinker.
Only one problem American are far from Israeli so can be brain washed easily, when European are close
Tariq Ali and Norman FInkelstein. Two idols of mine. Two juggernaut intellectuals who dole out truth trips wherever they're needed. Interesting fact: I'm almost certain the Rolling Stones rock band wrote their classic song "Street Fighting Man" loosely based on Tariq Ali.
Tariq's "truth trip" in this debate has a glitch - check out this article on Tariq's assertions about Hitler and the Peace Prize Shortlist: www.theguardian.com/theguardian/2003/feb/22/guardianletters
Norman has always urged us to question the authority.... :-D
I've never seen these two in the same room.
Nice catch. Tariq was definitely committing a guilt by indirect association fallacy. Interesting to see that it was also factually wrong.
This was pretty good.
Two great advocates for the Palestinian cause, I admire both these men and their humanity.
Finkelstein the man of truth. God bless him.
Norman and Tariq....
Dream lineup
It's funny when people say, "lefties get triggered"...well, how could you not?
I respect the man without prejudice knows the International law & Human rights. Love you Norman
It's absolutely shameful how the rest of the world are allowing this to happen. Human soul is getting weaker and weaker exactly because we don't stand up for justice. I can't find the words to describe how sad it makes me to think what happened to our hearts... Our values.. I'm just so disappointed that crimes against humanity as this can still take place on this planet and people can't relate or feel the pain because it's not happening to them.
Unfortunatly the majority of people in Israel are brainwashed and radicalised zionists who lost every sense of rationality and compassion. They are nationalists who are extremly negative and corrupted when it comes to Palestinians.
Massive respect to Finkelstein, i really love listening to him as he is a very good and intelligent man who stands and fights for justice and the truth. Ali Tariq deserves a lot of credit as well.
How zionsit can say Nazi was a criminal , when they are doing the same killing innocent , no one should be wonder why holocaust survivor, Dr Mat Gabor quoted Beautiful dream of Israel has become a nightmare | As a Jewish youngster growing up in Budapest, an infant survivor of the holocaust ...
The dialogue about the two groups hating on each other is a true example of the subject being brought up about the names on the bombs. The hatred is so thick. I was there in 2014. I saw some things that told me I would never return to Israel. As a human being the Warcrimes illegal settlements the treatment of the children teenagers the elderly. It is a sin. Shame on you Israel. This is what is meant to me "going off the cliff".
How zionsit can say Nazi was a criminal , when they are doing the same killing innocent , no one should be wonder why holocaust survivor, Dr Mat Gabor quoted Beautiful dream of Israel has become a nightmare | As a Jewish youngster growing up in Budapest, an infant survivor of the holocaust ...
"... interviewed a young girl, about 14 or 15 years old, in a Palestinian refugee camp (in Beirut), and asked her what she would say to an Israeli child her own age. 'I would strangle them' she replied. Why? 'Because I saw on Israeli television, as they were bombing Gaza, kids were writing their names on the bombs about to be dropped. This was mainstream Israeli t.v.'"
I just wanted to get that down, that is terrifying. Thanks so much for this upload
did anyone track down thesee clips? I know lots of israeli (mainstream) kids and that sort of thing is the farthest possible scenario to imagine.
lol thats an absolute lie. show me one image of that. we arent barbarians like our terrorist neighbors in the rest of the middle east.
How zionsit can say Nazi was a criminal , when they are doing the same killing innocent , no one should be wonder why holocaust survivor, Dr Mat Gabor quoted Beautiful dream of Israel has become a nightmare | As a Jewish youngster growing up in Budapest, an infant survivor of the holocaust ...
Kudos to both speakers.
FINKELSTEIN IS A VERY, VERY RARE US-AUTHOR, WHO TALKING THE TRUE!!!
Thanks for the upload.
No country in the world could get away so easily with slaughter, destruction and repression as the Israeli government has committed and is committing in Gaza and the West Bank: the blockade of Gaza, the hundreds of checkpoints in the West Bank, the illegal wall built within Palestinian territory on the West Bank, the illegal Jewish settlements - inhabited by half a million - which are entangled almost inextricably on the West Bank, the driving of Palestinians out of Jerusalem so that their population in that city has been amputated exponentially. The world does nothing about these crimes, daunted by the cynical Israeli exploitation of continuing guilt about the slaughter of Jews in the Holocaust.
after the isis and their other arab friends will destroy your country you ll cry to your leaders to learn from the israelies how to defend yourself. unldss it ll be too late.
the knowledge of facts is not so important, i see u write old stories in details. what is important its how do u see the reality and your beliefs. about the people in this area. i believe that the jews has the right to live in this area in peace, and the arabs dont want peace at all. all the historic stories about some groups and other secret stories not interest me at all/
Don’t say “Arab” when you mean Palestinian. Arab is a wider term, encompassing an entire ethnic group and bloc of countries. Palestinians are a distinct group within the Pan-Arab world, with their own unique culture, customs, and Arabic dialect. Use the appropriate term in the appropriate context, rather than making blanket statements about wider groups than you intend.
i suggest u to be concentrate in the present and the future of europe rather than speak about a group of some jews who lived in israel or in london or in viena before 70 years. / how those jews connect to the problems here and now with our arabs here in the middle east? i suggest u instead of looking with projector on israel-ass, to look behind your ass where the muslims gother aroud u.
u can be a teacher of anything u want. it doesnt change your twisted ideas about jews/ zionism is the idea of self deternination of jews in their old place, and gothered all the jewish refugees all over the world to be together and defened themselves. also among the nazis were teachers and doctors and profesors. education is not always sign for good heart or high moral.
I wish the world would listen & react to what is happening here more than they are , we boycotted South Africa back in the day , please help this cause
talk talk talk talk round and round we go
TWO GREAT,GREAT,MEN.
Free palestinal now !! From Australia with ❤❤❤
I like Norman, but I'm worried that I've never seen him smile or crack a joke. is he okay?
crimsonbubbles shallow. please come out of the worship of FUN ideology
He had great sense of humor as he was talking , great smile,
Norman Finkelstein you are so great!!! ... (still smiling about the monsters married to each other) ... I agree, Israel completely lost it!
great!
Free Palestine
From India🇮🇳
Brillant meeting, useful to raise consciousness and activate progressive thinking. What makes people move to fight what everyone know is wrong and destructive to the majority of us.
Based on what we heard Norman say about Gandhi in this video, can someone explain to me how Tariq Ali arrived at an assertion that Norman's picture of Gandhi is IDEALIZED?: "I must say my views on Gandhi, coming from that subcontinent, are very different from the idealized picture which has been developed of him not just by Norm but by western society as a whole".
I personally admire Norman a lot for his courage and endless dedication to a worthy cause but being from the sub continent myself, I totally agree with Tariq Ali in fact, I would even go as far as to say that many South Asians also have a distorted and narrow perception of Gandhi though not as much as people in the west. The only credit that one can give Gandhi in all fairness is that he could mobilize the public and that's pretty much the beginning and the end of it. When Norman makes this claim (as he has in many videos) that Gandhi was deeply concerned for the poor people of India and brought out their ailments what he fails to recognize is that Gandhi himself was a firm believer of hierarchical supremacy of the few over the many. In the west, most people don't even know how utterly racist he was to even his own fellow Indians in South Africa let alone the South African blacks. You have to read his own writings to know how deeply he believed in the supremacy of caste that is even more dangerous than racism itself because it gets sanctioned by religion. He only decided to lure a major portion of the Indian society that was disenfranchised so that it could prevent the land from getting divided otherwise just as many lower caste Hindus were being brutalized and murdered by their own people and he justified their cultural slavery and humiliation because he believed that God intended for them to be placed in a subservient role which is something he openly admitted to in his works. Those subservient roles are so humiliating and alienating that most people can never even imagine. Another misconception about Gandhi is that he despised the British which isn't true he was positively enamored by them till as late as 1918 I believe.That's the real Gandhi in short unlike the hollywood version of him or the deified version of him in South Asian literature.
gandhi is not above reproach. he has many critics.
Thanks for that post!
Correct me if I'm wrong? Isn't true that he was racist towards South African blacks at first but the changed his views after he was imprisoned?
Other than that. Thanks for the post, interesting bits of info!
Unfortunately that's not true. He was practically mortified at being placed in the same prison cell as the South African blacks. This is how he recounts his prison experience, “We were marched off to a prison intended for Kaffirs. There, our garments were stamped with the letter “N”, which meant that we were being classed with the Natives. We were all prepared for hardships, but not quite for this experience. We could understand not being classed with the whites, but to be placed on the same level with the Natives seemed too much to put up with.”
He called them savages and animals that could have an unhealthy influence on the Indians sharing their cells.Not to mention how he said he believed in the purity of his race just as much as the South African whites did. Now I understand it must come as a surprise to many though not to those who know how Gandhi ardently supported the caste system in his own land where caste happens to determine your future and place in the society. What Gandhi did was that he glorified the role of those he called scavengers, who were divinely ordained to perform acts of great humiliation at the behest of the upper caste minority and to derive satisfaction out of their cultural enslavement for performing their service to God. He forcefully supported and sugarcoated that pyramidal structure of power instead of demolishing it and that's also why he has always been the darling of the upper caste ruling elite of India.
I respect Norman for making a point of championing Ghandi's political IQ in left-wing forums where his memory treated as a persona non grata. The idea that political change begins with mobilizing people to act on what they know in their hearts to be true is a damn good point to understand in my opinion.
Israel is a Rogue Nation committing serious violations of
international law. The Washington, DC-based Israel Law Resource
Center, reports such violations include collective punishment,
apartheid barriers, illegal acquisition of land by force, ethnic
cleansing, Israeli settlements in Palestinian territory-and disregard
of some 28 resolutions of the UN Security Council. These are
violation of human rights, recognized around the world. BDS brings
awareness and a call for action, that has a real track record of
success. Stephen Hawking says, "anyone can answer big questions." Stephen Hawking has joined BDS and will not speak in Israel. Stop a mad man, who will keep replacing those who have a conscience, with those hardliners who have war crimes, as a mind set, like himself.
Amazing
Why is the blockade by Egypt never a problem?
Way back on March 31, 1977, the Dutch newspaper Trouw published an interview with Palestine Liberation Organization executive committee member Zahir Muhsein. Here’s what he said:
The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct “Palestinian peop
Read more at www.wnd.com/2002/07/14501/#AVhU1rlP5FIoiJLw.99 www.wnd.com/2002/07/14501/
I see a Starbucks (one of the biggest supporter of Israel) coffee cup behind Tariq Ali.
I just heard Tariq Ali mention why South African Apartheid was destroyed! Awesome! No one knows about this it seems.
Oh I remember this guy from the crusades documentary 'The Crescent and the Cross' - Great stuff!
Really? Who? Tariq or Norman?
@@stevencoardvenice Tariq. Very atmospheric documentary by the way, you can watch it on youtube.
wonder if Tariq will sing I am the Walrus !
Great to see this here on TH-cam land. My concern is how much of an audience is this getting other than this channel, 'Real News' and possibly some at college campuses (across the states hopefully)? How to get through the media conglomerate$ seems a challenge, though some public tv channels have been airing few shows that have such open mindedness, like 'democracynow' --
Meanwhile part of the problem may be too much info and sources in social media/internet in our current e-world?...
Either way, too little or too much, the focus to get the majority informed with truth would be a very worthwhile effort.
Thanks for posting this video !
You're welcome. Thank you for raising this issue. I plan to do a one-hour edit and air this on my cable access TV network: othervoicesotherchoices.blogspot.com/p/about-show.html Also, I've uploaded the audio to Radio4All, aka the a-Infos Radio Project, where it is available for download by radio stations etc. But I have no way of knowing how many stations (if any) have aired it. My guess is several. And this link may be of interest to those wanting to see such videos find a larger audience: othervoicesotherchoices.blogspot.com/p/bring-ovoc-to-your-tv.html
+Other Voices, Other Choices will do, I have a TuneIn app on my iPhone I can probably find those channels. Thank you for this fantastic work !
Love both of these intellectuals and it's great to hear them talking in the same room. Although, am I the only one that found it funny to see a Starbucks Latte in the background whilst two life long Palestinian activists attend a talk?
There have been several comments regarding the now-infamous Starbucks cup, but at some point I deleted them because they were distracting from more pertinent commentary. The cup belonged to the guy standing behind Norman (See 7:44 in the video). Oddly enough, I just saw (and spoke with) that guy at the UNAC conference in Richmond, VA.
How come we haven't heard from Norman Finkelstein in 6 years? Did the cult get to him?
TERRORISM is Not the ANSWER! 👊
Then stop supporting it.
I've heard it said that Hamas is an Israeli front, used to keep the conflict going.
The Netanyahu army, IDF, is exercising a price tag, something I'm sure the settlers picked up from him. Netanyahu was at the border speaking to his superior IDF soldiers. I saw the picture of his visit and that was followed by the resistance firing shots, a lucky shot. Can't have that!!! Time for collective punishment. Payback, as if the Palestinians didn't already have enough problems with raw sewage water flooding and destroying homes and farmland. Now women and children will pay with their lives. They are trapped in an open-air prison.
Though they see themselves as fatherly figures, slapping grown men around as if they were children, the IDF represents a cowardly progression towards world domination. Consider the words of a settler arrested for throwing rocks. She sees the Jews as a "light unto the gentiles". She was not seriously punished for throwing rocks at a car with Palestinians inside. She is, after all, a Jewish settler and "light unto the gentiles." Jimmy Carter correctly called Israel an apartheid Nation worse than South Africa.
What is disturbing is how Norman Finkelstein seeks to impose the European white revisionist history of Mahatma Gandhi instead of listening to critical voices of Gandhi from left wing academics who were actually born in the region like Tariq Ali and Arundhati Roy
I recommend the book, "The Generals Son".
God this man Finkelstein how smart is and how wise he talks, he is the real defender of the Jews, and loyal to the Jews who do not wish, they become named as devil of century, they should not walk against humanity and their own history who mad up suffered when are suffering Palestinian , just as they said Nazi did,
i am very surprised that such intelligent men could be so fooled by Bernie Sanders.
I think it was easy to get swept up in the frenzy that surrounded Sanders. He talked the talk. But I was always turned off by his foreign policy positions, and besides, we need a party and a movement, not just a personality. I would like to hear their thoughts on him now that it's obvious he was nothing more than a sheepdog.
I don't think Israel will ever allow the one state solution but I'm all for working to remove the blockade.
so we're waiting for Palestinian kids to line up on the beach with signs asking the world to remove the blockade. It has to be the kids since they are the future of the movement. Hamas can't compete with them.
+Greg ari People like you are the reason the rest of the world won't support Israel. Keep doing it. We need more people to take a stand for protection of human rights.
Rose Stewart
Are you supporting Israel destruction?
What does that have to do with removal of an illegal blockade? Or your racist views?
I don't have conversations with racists in everyday life so I'm done with you.
Rose Stewart
removable of legal blockade would incite fakestinian arabs for more terror against Israel is it clear?
Norman Finklestein is the father of Ashton Kuschner
If you watch this at 1.5x speed this becomes much more watchable. Smart people, great discussion, horrible public speakers.
What Liebermann suggested I totally the opposite from ethnic cleansing. He proposes that the Israeli Arab villages stay where they are today. The people will stay at the same houses on the same land but the border line between Israel and the Palestinian authority will be moved so they will be included in the Palestinian authority their brothers and their people the problem is that most of them want to stay as Israeli citizens makes you wonder why !!!!!
The speaker said, "Forty thousand tons of explosives were dropped on the city of Gaza." That is equal to 40 million pounds. I don't believe that for a minute. How many planes would it take over how much time to transport that many pounds of bombs? To me that is absurd and therefore I believe he is either very ignorant of the facts or is an outright deceiver.
I made a mistake, it was twenty thousand tons of bombs that he said were dropped on Gaza.
artillery and tank shells included
The Daniel S. Abraham Center for Peace, run by former Democratic Florida congressman Robert Wexler, ran a newspaper advertisement in the Friday edition of the New York Times, calling for immediate separation of Israelis and Palestinians into separate countries to keep Israel as a Jewish majority state. “It’s Time for Separation,” the advertisement explains. “Separation today means a Jewish majority, State of Israel now and for Generations ahead.” Isn't this what crap detection is all about? Alabama Gov. George Wallace put it: “Segregation now! Segregation tomorrow! Segregation forever!” Democrats can't even use the word occupation in their platform or anywhere else actually. AIPAC is so powerful, most candidates shudder at what their support or lack of can mean to their future.
Unfortunately, Hillary Clinton may do what the New York Governor has done and legislate laws that take away our civil rights with respect to BDS a nonviolent organization attempting to free the Palestinians from a brutal occupation.
History has taught us that criminalizing civil society and outlawing ideas, especially those that are guided by moral principles, is never a good idea. Netanyahu is legislating laws against his own people who oppose his Likud party war crimes. And Hillary Clinton, who opposes BDS, will most certainly attempt to at least emulate the New York governor.
Danny Danon who is going to chair the General Assembly's legal panel,
engaging on questions of international law, is particularly opposed
to all legally binding resolutions of the UNSC and farther right-wing
than Netanyahu. Danon's chairmanship of the Sixth Committee isn't a
confused United Nations, it sadly doesn't even fly in the face of
reality for a U.N. that has done nothing but talk about Israel’s
misbehavior.
Richard Falk, the former UN Special Rapporteur, said the appointment of Danon was "particularly ironic because he is a militant settler leader and the settlements themselves are a violation of international law." and it just isn't going to be David Pressman to stand up for justice for humanity or AGAINST the crimes of Israel.
I FEEL THE SAME ABOUT ROBERT WEXLER, FORMER CONGRESSMAN FROM FLORIDA AND ALSO FROM A RICH JUDAIC TRADITION. HE ISN'T GOING TO ALLOW EVEN THE WORD OCCUPATION TO BE USED IN THE DEMOCRATIC PLATFORM. CAN YOU BELIEVE HE IS NOW THE PRESIDENT FOR MIDDLE EAST PEACE? BLIND , DEAF, AND DUMB IS WHAT ISRAEL AND AIPAC HAVE IN MIND FOR THE AMERICAN PEOPLE.
kurt vonnegut got a sun tan
So why the Palestinian try violence ways ?
Movements die when representatives of movement Don't understand the situation,if they betray their promises, that's what happened to Palestinian movement although i don't read anything regarding Palestine or Israel, yesterday i listened a video clip of Ghassano kanafani in which he was saying we will fight till the last blood ....... unfortunately very unfortunately opposite happening like Tariq Ali said
As always a one side argument from left .
Why are people in the comments acting like Norman is the only one talking? Complexion for the protection? Lol
Hamas in the Middle East is the wonderful gift which gives on giving.
Diplomacy is a dead end...The other strategy...the armed struggle, the armed resistance of Hamas, the Palestinians...Now, in International Law, nothing under International Law debars the Palestinians from using armed force to end the occupation. For me, that is not an important question. Legally they have the right ...morally they have the right...!
If you ever read the old testament you know what kind of god they worship, a mad spirit, narcissistic, egotistical deity which did not hesitate to commad the destruction of anyone that was not part of his chosen people or adept to the religious beliefs, even kids or new born, people read this shit and ignore the sadistic tendencies of the so called Jehovah, me being a former Christian who was fanatical can assure you this is common shit for them. The difference? A different century.
Why Tariq Ali, you've got it all wrong, all those settlements being built, the world is letting the Jews build them so that the Palestinians will have something to go home to. God is most powerful and he thinks of everything. There are no accident Tariq Ali, God has this well in hand, HE'S SPOKEN FOR PALESTINE. Have faith. Palestine will prevail, in the end, Palestine will prevail. God will lead the world to truth as he always has. In the end, evil will fall.
Wait???The Cuban army brought down the parts are in South Africa??This is a lie!!
And the whole world stands by yet again with their heads buried in the sand - aparthied, torture, lack of humanity and a prolonged haulacaust of the Palestinian people.
I'm for BDS, but my local market sold jars of Israeli fish balls,$8.50 each, for $1.99,on clearance. I bought 6 jars with no regrets except one must believe if the Palestinians were allowed to fish, theirs would be much cheaper, to begin with. Does it exemplify the true reality that the occupation is about money now, and down the line for Netanyahu, and the Israelis? I think it is fair to ask when did killing, and imprisoning Palestinians become part of the business of income for Israel? Just like in the movie, The Island, we see a man and a privileged people abusing what has been given to them.
And Israel is that man. The spoilt brat of international politics. Now complaining that everyone hates him... all the while getting nothing but freebies and gifts from all nations.
Not A good comparison to use South Africa considering the current complete degeneration of their entire political and physical infrastructure. South Africa is circling the drain. They have no more water. Their parliament breaks into fistfights during their debates. And the blacks down there resort to violence towards each other in tribal warfare and also into brutal genocide on the white farmers in the countryside. It is a complete tragedy. what has happened in that country. Millions of lives are at stake. The ANC was given the keys to the kingdom and It threw them down, pulled down their pants, and squatted over them to release a massive foul avalanche of turds.
Palestinian liberation organization recognized Israel. What did they get? More settlements control of water electricity and small enclaves of towns that aren’t connected. All of that is silly and worthless. Has Israel recognized that Palestinians are humans. Answer is No!
Israel and What ? There is no Palestine .
I imagine Norm now thinks of Bernie Simpkins as I do. Two faced coward.
TRNN!
tired arguments belonging to a museum.
Like always everyone's speaking of there own views "Norman" , hamas using human shields
Stop stealing land you little eastern European settler colonialist fascist Zionist.
I know Ali from the '70's. He has always been a political dilletante. Similar to Ralph Schoenman.
What little i have read of Gandhi, he was mostly a fanatical , religious maniac. I could also do without the woman in the audience.
Hello, not 10 billions, just read, please Haaretz ( U.S. military aid to Israel exceeds $100 billion - Haaretz - Israel News ...)
Isreal need to be ashamed
tarik Ali always like a grumpy walrus..
LONG LIVE ISRAEL.
There is no such thing as "israel" pal - Long live Palestine is what I think you probably meant ye?
Regor Snitram You clearly are not familiar with history, you cowardly fool. 1948 Israel became a state. So, back to your trailer home, you Jew hating, low information, cowardly, envious fuck.
ds Nope, there has been a "state of israel" - it is a myth
There is only an "illegally occupied Palestine" which the whole world has been dealing with through the UN since 1947
The whole world hates the people who call themselves "israel" and "zionist" and they are hated for VERY good reason
The whole world says "F U C K israel" pal
Go take a cry at your wall and then go push the "Samson Option" button, save us all the trouble of doing it for you
ds zionists HATE JEWS - the whole world agrees
Jews HATE zionists - ALL Jews agree
israel is a myth, there is no such thing - there is only an illegally occupied Palestine - Albert Einstein
Regor Snitram Hey fuck nut, there sure as hell is an Israel. Unlike you, who cannot find it on a map, I have been there. Yup, it is real alright. ALL Jews have Zionists? ALL Zionists hate Jews. Well, aren't you a fucking moron.