Native American named Kishkumen
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 เม.ย. 2024
- Names used in the Book of Mormon provide evidence of its authenticity. Some names in the Book of Mormon have Hebraic or other roots. In this video I look at the name Kishkumen and relate it to a Native American name Keesh-ke-mun that has been documented for an Ojibwe chief in the 1700s.
My book on DNA and the Book of Mormon is called "Face of a Nephite" and may be found here: www.digitalegend.com/products...
I like to provide evidence supporting the Book of Mormon, focusing on DNA evidence, archaeological evidence, Native American artifacts, and investigating the ancient Native American Hopewell culture that was centered in Ohio in Book of Mormon timeframes. I prefer the Heartland location for the geography of the Book of Mormon but lean towards Ohio as the location for Zarahemla. I also value evidence regarding Hebrew (Israelite) influence in Mesoamerica and evidence for the peopling of the Americas.
This channel produces faithful Latter-Day Saint content which will appeal to and overlap some with other faithful LDS videos from similar TH-cam channels such as Cwic Media, Ward Radio, The Stick of Joseph, Book of Mormon Evidence, Ancient Answers, Scripture Central, Book of Mormon Central, Watcher Palmer, Latter-Day Media, Joseph Smith Foundation, Christian Homestead, Hidden in the Heartland, David Lindsley Studio, Heartland Research Group, The Last Dispensation, and Book of Mormon Heartland. This channel will also appeal to and overlap with content from faithful LDS influencers like Rod Meldrum, Wayne May, Jonathan Neville, Hannah Stoddard, Jerry Grover, and Brant Gardner, as well as organizations like the Firm Foundation and Book of Mormon Central.
I was talking to a fellow who had never heard of the book of Mormon before. As a youth he began studying to be a Catholic priest but never finished. When introduced to Lehi his comment was......."so THAT is where Lehi (pronounced Lay-he). Went. He said as part of his studies he read some of the manuscripts the Catholics have. I figured that is where he came up with the name.
Amish and Mennonites have that name among them, and they aren't thought of
Excellent article!! The language of the Algonquin matches the characters of the BOM. Lots of good things coming out out of non lds sources.
True. Interesting to see the relationship with the time period and of joseph smith time. Similar stuff with the word of wisdom.
You're being disingenuous.
Given that the Algonquin alphabet was derived from the latin alphabet in the 17th century we should expect it to be pretty similar to the english alphabet. And since the BoM was originally written in english he's absolutely correct. What a coincidence!
Don't be silly, the BoM is clearly a modernforgery, not some ancient book.
@@lukegraven7839good luck explaining every coincidence about the BOM. If Joseph Smith is a fraud, he must have been one of the smartest and most gifted frauds of all time.
Must be just as tiring being a legitimate detractor as being a legitimate apologist. Otherwise, we know who the fraud really is here in this chat
@@lukegraven7839 that is a lie, unless latin has egyptian symbols. Do your research before you give an opinion.
@@dennismario2473 don't be silly. there's not a single linguist who back any of your make-believe stories up.
I was watching a documentary about a South American tribe that hadn’t had any contact with people before, and one of the members name was Alma. I found that very interesting.
Its a biblical name of s female from the old testament, in Gen thecfirst book so is that interesting as well?
@@CyrusmagiSure. In either case, how would the tribe have heard that name? Just a coincidence?
The holy spirit told me that some of the natives in south america got there from fleeing from the north, and its societal collapse, wars, corruption, and wickedness. But it seems they lost their identity. But I am sure that there is a connection. And I think many native americans need this. I think it would give them hope that people want their welfare to improve, and hope to be able to reach them.
BUT; in the gospel there's this thing called ENMITY and its used to separate and sift the wheat from the tares, and people from one another. Generally its used to harm any attempt to improve the lives of the natives. And it is an evil force used to create discord, and war.
@Cyrusmagi I'll tell you what is interesting.... in Jerusalem, some years back, in an archeological excavation that was done there, they found a small document on papyrus, which when translated turned out to be a deed to a piece of property, and declared that the owner of the property was Alma, the SON of Judah! This document is now on public display in the Hebrew museum of archeology in Jerusalem! In Joseph Smith's day, people ridiculed the appearance of the name Alma in the Book of Mormon as the name of a man! It was well attested that the name Alma was of very common use, but as the name of a woman/female! So, they made merry and ridiculed "ol'Joe Smith" and mocked those who accepted the Book of Mormon, saying, "it's a well established fact that Alma is a girl's name! Ol' Joe sure put his foot in it there!" And now, over a century later, we have concrete archeological proof that in very fact, Alma was known to have been used as a MAN'S NAME in biblical times! Now, I find THAT interesting..... how about you??? Ol' Joe turns out to be quite a gifted guesser, don't you think? No one had heard of such a thing, and it turns out that he just happened to get it right! (there are SO MANY of those coincidences.... what a lucky guesser that Joe Smith was!)
@@wa1den Yeah, criticism of the name in the Book of Mormon use of "Alma" was on the basis that Alma is a feminine, Latin name. He's "lucky guessing" to the tune of hundreds and hundreds of examples.
According to Warren, the markings on the record showed, among other things, that by 1842, there had been eight ancestors to this chief with responsibility for maintaining the record on this plate, since the time the tribe had come to build their center there. Each “had lived to a good old age,” and upon their death, the duty was transferred to another.
It appears that the “indentations and hieroglyphics” on this metal plate was to keep a record “denoting the number of generations of the family who have passed away since they first pitched their lodges at Shaug-a-waum-ik-ong and took possession of the adjacent country, including the Island of La Pointe or Mo-ning-wun-a-kaun-ing.”
Also recorded on the plate was a “figure of a man with a hat on its head” placed opposite the third generation markings, indicating the generation during which the white man first came among them.
From the record, Warren was able to conclude that it had been about 360 years since the Ojibway Tribe had ceased their migrations, commending from the area around what is now Western New York and the islands of the Great Lakes, and gathered together to settle down and build a principal center at La Pointe. Warren was able to estimate that it had been 240 years since the Ojibway had encountered the white man. He used the plate to estimate the year when a formal meeting took place between the Ojibway and a representative of the French nation, as well as the year that Father Claude Allouez first encountered the Ojibway.
Warren reports that the Ojibway are believed to be related to the other Algonquin-speaking or Algic tribes, who share certain customs believed to be of ancient origin. One such custom pertains to the keeping of sacred relics. Warren reports that it was the custom among them that a man would be appointed by the elders and the chiefs, for a designated span of years, to be responsible for certain sacred things, as follows:
“. . to take charge of the sacred pipe, pipestem, mat, and other emblems of their religious beliefs. A lodge is allotted for his especial use, to contain these emblems and articles pertaining to his office. Four horses are given to him to pack these things from place to place, following the erratic movements of the camp. This functionary is obliged to practice seven fasts, and to live during the term of his priesthood in entire celibacy.” He is the only one who “can or dare handle the sacred pipe and emblems.”
Warren notes also that “[A]ll religious councils are held in his lodge, and disputes are generally adjusted by him as judge. His presence and voice are sufficient to quell all domestic disturbance, and altogether he holds more actual power and influence that even the civil and war chiefs.” It is also reported that, if this judge and medicine man should live long enough that his term of assigned years should expire, then “[A]t the end of his term the tribe presents him with a new lodge, horses and so forth, wherewith to commence life anew.”
Other sacred records are maintained by those initiated into the central religious rites, which ceremony and teachings Warren calls “the grand rite of the Me-da-we-win” . The teachings of this rite are kept sacred, and even Warren admits that, despite his intimacy with these matters, he yet stands only “at the threshold” of the Me-da-we lodge. The teachings include the creation of the earth, man’s true relationship to God, the global flood or deluge caused by man’s wickedness. In this rite, the Ojibway are taught that, after the universal flood, the commencement of a “new earth” or “second earth” was only made possible by the “intercession of a powerful being, whom they denominate Man-ab-o-sho, a divine uncle or brother figure, and that by this intercession they were allowed to exist, and means were given them whereby to subsist and support life, and a code of religion was “bestowed on them whereby they could commune with the offended Great Spirit, and ward off the approach and ravages of death.” Warren reports that in the teachings of the religion of the Ojibway, “hieroglyphics are used to denote this second earth.”
I would love to read more, do you have the source?
Seems to be from the book cited in the video..? By William Warren. Just a guess 🤷♀️
For students of the Book of Mormon, an interesting event is referenced in the pages of History of the Ojibway People, by William W. Warren. The event is also of interest to Wisconsin archeologists because of its reference to metal objects fashioned by native Americans in Wisconsin.
According to Warren, as a teenager in 1842, he was in the company of his father and mother visiting the Ojibway town that had been a capital or principal gathering place, founded at the mouth of Chequamegon Bay on what is now called Madeline Island in Lake Superior, one of the Apostle Islands. In 1693, French explorers had established a fort and trading post nearby called La Pointe. The Objibway town and the trading post are located at the southern end of Madeline Island, approximately 2.6 miles across the water from the Wisconsin shoreline along Lake Superior. This location was one of the first outposts for the Ojibway migrating westward under pressure from other tribes, and was selected by the Ojibway for their first settlement in that area of Wisconsin because of the additional security provided by being on an island. Warren’s family was visiting his mother’s uncle, who was a chief of the Crane clan.
It should be noted that there were smaller Ojibway towns established all along the shore of Lake Superior from Fond du Lac, Minnesota (on the Wisconsin-Minnesota border at the extreme western end of Lake Superior’s waterways) to Keweenaw Bay on the east, near the Village of Baraga, Michigan.
Warren reports that the Ojibway found a successful life in these lands. Fur was plentiful, fishing was good among the nearby islands, large fields of corn and squash were cultivated, and wild rice was harvested in the lakes and streams. Also, after the French abandoned the trading post at La Pointe in 1698, the other tribes of the area, such as the Fox and Lakota (or Dakota), had no choice but to obtain European goods through their neighbors the Ojibway. In the winter months, hunting bands traveled deep into Wisconsin woods to the south. But in the summer, Ojibway people from the whole area, as well as from the north shore of Lake Superior, came to Chequamegon on the island for the Medewiwin (or “Grand Medicine”) ceremonies. These religious gatherings of the Ojibway nation were held in a great lodge which stood in the principal village on Madeline Island.
At this time, Warren and his parents were shown a “sacred relic” of the Ojibway people, exhibited to him by the old chief, Tug-waug-aun-ay of the Crane Clan. Warren would have been about 16 or 17 years old, as he was born on May 27, 1825. The event was later reported in Warren’s book, in connection with a historical review of chieftainship among the various Ojibway clans.
In his book, Warren describes the “sacred relic” as a record or “register” made on a “circular plate of virgin copper.” Warren reports that the existence of the sacred record was not generally known and that it was seldom displayed even to those were closely related to the person tasked with maintaining the precious record. “On this occasion he only brought it to view at the entreaty of my mother, whose maternal uncle he was.” Warren also reports, “I am the only one still living who witnessed, on that occasion, this sacred relic of former days.”
For students of the Book of Mormon, it is of interest that this sacred relic was kept hidden in an underground location. Warren reports, “[T]he old chief kept it carefully buried in the ground . . .” Warren reports that the chief “was about sixty years of age at the time he showed this plate of copper, which he said had descended to him direct through a long line of ancestors.”
Warren reports that, on this metal plate are “rudely marked indentations and hieroglyphics.” It appears that this plate may be one among several, and that it was prepared new at the time the tribe took up residence in this new area. The tribe had selected this location as their new center, and the town or city was reported to be crowded with lodges and hogans, taking up an area of about three miles long and two miles wide. The purpose of the metal plate appears to have been to keep a new record from that time forward.
The current Chief for the Ojibway tribe is a member of the church who had left and then returned after his induction as the new Chief. In the ceremony he was taken through a series of rituals that he recognized as our Temple rituals. Currently the Ojibway have close connections to Israel and the Jews who recognize they are Israelite. th-cam.com/users/liveK6u6b-o8Kto?si=Y2Fl0M2QZqlV4w_V
Thanks for sharing this. That's super cool.
I love the comment "reason number 1001":). Super cool to learn about, thanks for sharing.
Incredible! Thank you for sharing this information.
That's pretty fascinating! I'll have to look that up myself!
Excellent, and I found in the Ojibwe Language Adaam: “buy” and Ondamon: “a trail to a certain place” to me this seems to be the Fall of Adam, necessitating the redemption from Christ through the covenant path. Also you may like my latest video about how evidence from North America has helped identify the Biblical and Historical Nimrod.
Both those words sound close to Adam Ondi-Ahman, which is supposedly in Missouri. The Ojibwe are around the Great Lakes, but perhaps they were closer to the midwest in times past. Ahman is also another name for Jesus Christ.
Thank you so much for this fascinating information.
Excellent video, I’ve subscribed to your channel & look forward to more of your content. 😊
Some people think
Tecumseh = Teancum .
So when was HathiTrust first published?
Really cool! Thanks for pointing it out.
I'm 50% south American native. My mother is full 100% South American native. Wonderful information, thank you
Just reading that off the top -- I'm thinking that there are many tribes, so are they all considered basically of the same tribe originally? Just curious.
Idk, but I wouldn't think so. There is a historical book called Book of Mormon, and there mentions a man called Lehi and he was the first person to come over to the America's from that book. And in the Book mentions there were people in the Americas before him, so.
@@Eli12344 I don't think anyone considers the Book of Mormon an historical book, not even the LDS church. Some really intelligent men, strongly devoted to the LDS, wasted years and found no evidence for the Book of Mormon, historically, geographically, physically, etc.
I find the DNA rather interesting, though. It plots the movements of tribes throughout time, tracing them back here or there -- practically anywhere but Israel.
Yeah, you're correct. I guess I'm the only one that think the BOM tells the history of my ancestors. But that doesn't make the BOM a historical book. You're right.
@@ts-900 There’s mountains (pun intended) of evidence for ancient, advanced cities of cement with massive populations in ancient America.
That alone is evidence, and it’s evidence that Joseph Smith couldn’t have known. There were no cement cities discovered at his time.
Yes the English pronunciation can make names written in some languages really weird. First time here I heard how the names Nefi and Lehi were told how they originally were probably pronounced and that sounded just the way I would say them. If I would write the names after how Americans pronounce them they would be Nifai and Lihai.
I have felt led by the Spirit to research ancient american history since our first Book of Mormon CFM year, I totally went off roading during my readings and could never keep up. It was like the Spirit was telling me to "Look!", so i would, stop, look, listen, and follow the spirit's promptings of what to learn about. The Ojibwe is one such stop that the spirit led me to read about. The Hopewell tribes were another such roadstop. I have also read a little of the Onidah tribe. How fascinating to connect that name to the Onidah hill. In Maori tradition, when you introduce yourself, you name your mountain, your river and the canoe your ancestors came to Aotearoa "the land of the long white cloud" ( New Zealand ) on. Maybe the Onidah hill belonged to the Onidah people? So many intersecting threads of knowledge to weave together in the pursuit of truth.
Your video is a witness to me that these "random" road stops were not in vain. The Lord is preparing us for what's to come, for more revelation. And we need to practice how to follow revelation when we receive it! Thank you for sharing your knowledge with us! I look forward to learning more!
Ps. My sister in law is of the Diné people! As are my beautiful nieces and nephews. She married into a mixed Samoan family with European (German/English) roots. Hence my interest in your DNA videos. The Polynesian gene only shows it to be distinct from other gene pools such as South East Asian, which we are supposedly descended from according to genetic experts. Except, that south east asian dna is still distinct from us! My theory is that admixture occurred between our "two" groups. Why else would they be distinct from each other? I feel the need to connect my Samoan branch to our true origins. Whatever they are!
th-cam.com/video/w2eLtiRN5IE/w-d-xo.htmlsi=mbXoCUEeevjxVC36
Really Excellent. Can't say more.
That is incredible! Thank you for sharing your testimony and personal connection to these things. The Diné tribe is so special. May you have many more "road stops" in your studies 😊
@@danite620 Thank you for your kind words!
@taylorsessions4143 Wow, did you serve a mission there? Yes my sister-in-law and her family are beautiful people. Her mother was adopted by a couple missionary I guess back in the day when that was a thing. She was raised by this couple in her teenaged years in Hawaii, where she met her Hawaiian husband. I want for my nieces and nephews to be able to connect to their special heritage. I asked my sister-in-law if she ever connected the Book of Mormon to her history. She told me that she was always taught growing up that the people of the Book of Mormon were her people, and she and my brother teach their children the same. It gave me such a beautiful feeling to receive her testimony of this!
Btw, one of my "stops" led me to an unexpected Jewish-Navajo connection - a video on weaving the paroket or Temple veil. I clicked on the video because weaving and Judaism are two interests of mine, but nothing prepared me for the Navajo weaver who taught this Jewess Rebbezin (a master weaver) a unique double-weave technique thought to be lost (noted in Jewish records but method unknown).
Talk about road stops!
@@saspen3link to the weaving video please?
Thank you for sharing this, I feel like at this stage of my life with young children my priority is not to look for these things. Truly, this sort of evidence won't convert a non-believer, but for those who do believe these tidbits are just so fascinating! I greatly enjoyed you sharing your finding and I'm grateful you made it public.
Agreed! I'm an older parent with younger children and at this stage, my off-roading learning is just for me. I try to check myself all the time because I don't want to look beyond the mark. I think if the Lord is leading us towards a certain path of learning, as I've personally found, maybe it's simply to add other threads of knowledge that He can bring to our recall later when He needs to teach us something more? I find that as long as my eye is single to coming closer to God, through His Son, then the knowledge I gain only serves to illuminate my mind further in my personal strivings.
It's also extremely motivating and exhilarating! I come more and more to the reality that the Lord's ways are unsearchable, and I can understand better when prophets say they can't write even an hundredth part of what God has taught them. Not enough hours in the day especially with little ones!
These things are meant for us to reinforce and boost our faith, but for those who simply cannot will not believe nothing will do. You could literally hand the book of Mormon on gold plates to them, and they would say it was a fake or find someway to Disavow, or destroy it. So, take comfort. I’m in the same boat. I am an older parent with teenagers. The mother of my kids does not believe. They love going to church with me. She doesn’t take them to church with her. So, it falls to me to bring them up spiritually. Personally, I am delighted. hang in there, remember, heavenly father sees how hard we work as parents, and we are not alone. Remember that.
@@csluau5913 Amen!
Ooo got me thinking
Regarding pronunciation
Iowa (like the state & people) = YHW (Jehovah)
There used to be a gigantic lake in Nevada named Lake Leahoton
Forgive my ignorance, but what's the significance behind that name? Is it that is similar to Liahona?
@@robwagner7545
Yes. Also, there is a conversion story by a Potowanami woman from Arizona who had been taught by Catholics and Protestants, and when she learned about the Book of Mormon, the story in it matched the tribes oral history down to the details of a compass directing her ancestors through the wilderness from across the ocean. I believe it is possible that the dating methods are not correct, and Leahoton was the sea west , and Bonneville was the sea East and north, and the North running river Jordon was Sidon. I am not ruling out the Mississippi as the river Sidon though. Did you know there are volcanoes in Utah?
@@GarySaint-xm6tr There are many volcanoes in Utah and other Western States such as California, Nevada, Oregon, Washington, and Idaho. Have you considered Baja or California for a place where the Book of Mormon took place?
@@joshradson2649
Definitely
@@joshradson2649
It matches for a West Coast landing. It matches for initially thinking they were on an island. It matches for Hogarth sending ships into the sea. Definitely considering Bajah
Very cool man!
Wonderful! I am so grateful for my Native American brothers and sisters. I do believe that the Algonquin language family are Lehi’s descendants. Thank you for this. The heartland model of the BoM is the only one that makes sense to me.
I having being born in the Amazon jungles of Peru and, have seen/ heard of these natives/ Indian of the region, deep in in my heart burns the feeling / knowledge that this people / Indians are the remanentes of the Nephi/ lamanites descents . I know that my heart/ spirit does not lie to me. I know the BOM to be true. My heart swells w the thoughts of this truth. Again, what is the name/ author about Kishkumen? Thank you.
The heartland is too small to make sense in my mind considering Nephi mentioning so many cities of people that he didn’t number them.
But I respect it, especially considering the many traditions that point to the Book of Mormon among the people there.
@@FromAgonyToLight thank you brother. The heartland model extends clear from Florida up to Nova Scotia. Lots and lots of space. The majority being in the heartland of the United States, Ohio, Michigan, Tennessee, New York and Wisconsin. All the best!
@@FromAgonyToLight also, I forgot to tell you that there are literally thousands of Mound builder cities throughout the north east. You can visit many of the sites today, though most have been destroyed through farming and urban sprawl. I have a book by Squires and Davis that was originally written in the early 1800s Highlighting the many ancient earthworks. There was a very large population at one time.
@@majesticliberatoroftheoppr3971 I’m aware of the large population and sophistication of the mound builder cities, but Helaman specifically says cities of cement. Though I think there are some cement buildings in the heartland area? Though, less so.
how interesting.. thank you.
Makes me wonder if the name Kishcumen is a Hebrew inspired word. קישקומן - comes up as Kishkomen. I looked up “Kish” and it said it meant “bent”. And “Komen” means “to be firm”. I don’t know if that’s the same thing, but it would be interesting. Because he was such a wicked leader so he was firm in doing crooked things.
That name is a contradiction.
@@randyipsen explain
@@zionmama150 Joseph Smith was exposed to all kinds of philosophies and histories in his youth. If the Book of Mormon was written and not translated the names he used could have been taken from histories or volumes of fiction he may have encountered. As you can see I struggle with the Book of Mormon as scripture. It could be a work of divine origin or it could be a work of fiction. It doesn’t impress or inspire me as it does some people. I have my doubts about it.
@@randyipsen you’re hilarious. The fact that you believe that given the few books he actually was exposed to in his day… It’s just hilarious that you believe that. It’s like denying the reality of the 1800’s and what the common American was exposed to, was able to afford, and would be able to travel to receive. The amount of copies in America during that time of various books telling the information he would need to have were in the hands of the elite and scattered from city to city. Buying books was expensive and you had to travel to certain cities to obtain copies of some of them. I can’t believe there are so many that will believe the dumbest things just so they can justify discrediting the Book of Mormon. It’s just hilarious.
@@zionmama150 what an ignorant response. Your lack of respect for others opinion is appalling. You assume im trying to discredit the bom which I am not. I was born into the church and even served a mission. Through my studies and thoughts I have become agnostic about the bom. I enjoy studies like this that could possibly prove the bom but your derisive attitude is repugnant and probably out of line with your religion.
Very cool!
As with most links in the Book of Mormon to things in the known world, at the time of Joseph Smith, there was little to no knowledge of these things to link together. Especially to create the tapestry of the Book of Mormon in such detail and complexity. I haven't seen such intelligent work in fact or fiction of our day of sophistication.
Now we know about chiasmus, Hebrew wording and structure, links to the mid-east and topography, the Hopewell tribes and so on.
How foolish will be those that use presentism to try to disprove the Book of Mormon. But the witness of the Spirit supersedes all physical evidence and is more sure as well.
Thanks for your find. I'm adding it to the collection of ancient relics, languages and legends that tie back to the Book of Mormon.
I too see the Hopewell as the highest probability of being the Nephites. But do not discount the influence they may have had on other cultures or the cultures that absorbed the remainder of the Nephites that may have escaped the total destruction of their people. Some, or even many, may have been moved upon by the same Spirit to "get out now" that Lehi received before the total destruction.
That is completely misleading nonsense. The story of the lost tribes of Judea sailing across to America and creating huge civilisations, being the the ancestors to the Native Indians was very common in early 1800's evangelical America. So much so that many books were written about it including A view of the Hebrews written and published many years before the BoM. Coincidently, Oliver Cowdrey was an associate of the author (Ethan Smith- no relation) before he became a scribe and accelerated the writing of the BoM.
Wow. I find it interesting that you found this. And thank you for posting it. I wanted to reply.
In doing family history, I also had found citings, records of the name 'Lemuel' in the 1700s also, though this was among Anglos. But I mention it because of course there's a pattern for 1 group, so of course others would have similar. People hand down names based on their fathers and family members. But things like this, only LDS people will notice. And they are like tiny gems to be discovered.
I have noticed there are tons of these little tiny carry overs in native american cultures especially. I've noticed some of them. But there are probably hundreds of them just laying around waiting to be identified. Its amazing how many of them are. And probably most tribes have several of them each.
Also; the 'Sharpened Stone' would then make it a spear head, or a tomahawk head, etc. Become a mighty weapon. Its hidden. But its also interesting that this would be the opposite of Peter's name, which is the foundation of the church.
There are also similarities to the counting coup in Plains native cultures and how the people of Ammon stood up to the enemy unarmed and then some were allowed to live. I think the meaning wasn't well understood or was lost in the true meaning, but that it carried over AND NOT a coincidence.
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This part here is my opinion; I think more of these little puzzle pieces will become noticable as we understand J e w i s h culture better. And I think this is because some of the traditions of the native americans fit jews more than the LDS point of view. And this might be why its very hard for native american culture to adapt to the church... because if it were more like how jewish traditions were they would identify with some things more.
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It would be fun and interesting to talk to more native american members or students of the Book of Mormon. And hope to get the chance to year a reply from you.
I agree with you
@@Lamanitehistory Thanks for the reply. I look forward to what else you will do videos on. And wish for happiness for your clan and tribe.
Lemuel is in Proverbs 31 so it is a Bible name, and I grew up with a fictional short story about a family in Connecticut in the 1600s with a Lemuel so I knew it was around, but I suppose Lemuel in the Bible might be presumed to have been a good king whereas to LDS it connotes negativity so we wouldn't name a Lemuel as it would brand a kid.
Joseph Smith's family lived on land owned by Lemuel Durfee. He was literally their landlord--the person they had to pay rent to. Not far from the area where Joseph Smith first started "translating" the Book of Mormon, is a county called Lehigh County (pronounced exactly the same way that Mormons have always pronounced "Lehi"). The county is named after the Lehigh River and was formally established in 1812. Similarities in names can be found anywhere.
In 1917, a well-known psychologist theorized that Alma was most likely the result of Joseph Smith combining two important names in his life A L vin and em M A. Himni was derived from Harmony (Emma's hometown). Mosiah is just Josiah with an "M" instead of a "J". Master Mahan is Master Ma s on. Mahonri is Ma s onry. Just think in phonetical terms instead of strictly exact spellings (and Joseph Smith was never known as a spelling-bee ace). In other words, people can argue for years about what it means to find a somewhat similar name somewhere. It's never going to prove anything. Joseph Smith's brother, Hyrum, spent years studying at Moor's Indian Charity School (an institution that shared the faculty and campus of Dartmouth College). MICS was devoted to doing missionary work among indigenous peoples ("Indians") and was one of the hotbeds for notions about the native Americans being Israelites.
I've been spending a lot of time in Honduras of late (married a gal down there back during the pandemic, 2021), and they have a place down there called "Lamani". I'm curious to dig more into the origins of the name, though I haven't had much opportunity yet. I must confess that I personally am more convinced by the mesoamerican theories as to the prime location of the happenings in the Book of Mormon. I would point out that there needs to be a "narrow neck of land" between two oceans, and there needs to be cities built with the use of cement in an area where there is not sufficient viable timber to do much construction with wood
....also, I figure that groups or tribes from the main area in mesoamerica could have migrated up north for any number of reasons (surviving nephites fleeing from the lamanites, or even lesser lamanite tribes not in good favor with the main bunch), and they would have brought their traditions and lore with them
I lived in Guatemala nearly two years, and I worked with the Indian people there. I used to think that Central America was Book of Mormon land, but I no longer believe that. I am sure that Book of Mormon people made their way down there, though.
@lukeslc-xd8ds Can you tell me where in the "heartland" you can find a "narrow neck of land" between two oceans, that is sufficienly narrow to be crossed on foot in a matter of a few days, and ancient cities built using cement? So far as I personally am aware, I don't believe that such things are to be found in the continental U.S.
@wa1den I plan to discuss some geography theories in the future, but I'm not quite ready yet.
@@lukeslc-xd8dsIt is hard to believe the Nephites lived almost a thousand years on the North American continent and never made it more then a couple hundred miles west of the Mississippi. The Jaradites probably made it into South America also.
I've spent many summers near Lac Du Flambeau.
I couldn't find the name you gave but I did find many references to "Kish-Ke-Kosh". Are we talking about the same thing/person/name?
Try looking for keesh-ke-mun
This is amazing. I like that you say reason number one-thousand-&-one.
Sealed portion will come out soon..
Not in your lifetime nor your kids, nor their kids. Remember this when you're on your death bed.
It would be interesting for sure but the scriptures say that they will not be brought forth till mankind had the same faith like the brother of Jsred. That will be during the Millennium. I hope it comes soon. There is plenty of reason to believe it will be in my lifetime.
@@rutht2023 "Plenty of reason to believe it will in my lifetime" Joseph Smith prophesied the second coming would happen in his lifetime and that didn't happen. Moving the goal posts?
There was a river name similar to kishkumen. There was a township named it in1831. Near JS.
I am interested in more information about that if you have it. What are the similar names of the river and township you're referring to?
@Lamanitehistory Armstrong County and Westmorland County. Is where the kishlimentas river is, as well as...There are various spellings of this name, though the most common I’ve seen are Kishkemanetas on early maps (see it on an 1805 map of Pennsylvania) and the standardized Kiskiminetas.
@@jake8882 That’s interesting. Thanks
@Lamanitehistory of course. I am always learning new things about the history. It's fascinating
@@Lamanitehistory This township was named from the river which forms its southern border. Heckewelder, a Moravian missionary, who was well versed in Indian dialects, says Kiskimenetas means "make daylight" and is corrupted from the Indian word Gieschgumanito. It was probably the word of command given by a chief to his comrades to arise and resume the journey at daybreak.
The township was formed in 1831 out of the upper end of Allegheny township, and the boundaries are the Kiskiminetas river on the south, Indiana county and South Bend township on the east, Burrell township on the north and Parks township on the west. Apollo is the only borough within its borders. Spring Church, Equitable, Shady Plain, Maysville, Hicksville and Edmon are villages of varying sizes distributed over the township.
Have you already talked about the idigenous meaning of the word Utah and how it correlates with Isiah´s profecy?
I haven't. Thank you, that would be a good topic.
In Peru Mormona, Morona, Amaleki are last names. (you saw it in the phonebook). There are lamanites all over the americas.
I am interested in learning more about the origin of those names
Cool find. I wondered if Nephi was pronounced Nefe. When I read the translated account of the Lenni-Lanape story of their migration from Eastern Europe/Siberia over bearingia and then eventually (many years) crossing the Mississippi and joined up with the ancestors of the Iroquois (Lamanites?) to battle the Talegus (mound buiders/Nephites?). I wondered if the ancestors of the Iroquois coined the name "lanape" because when they first saw them, they said they were not Nephites looking like they came from Siberia.
In Hebrew "la" is no or not and Nape possibly Nephi. Would "Nephi" in Ancient Hebrew be spelled Naphee, and maybe the ph was a hard "p" instead of a "f." Of course, this is wild speculation.
Sorry, my first reply was supposed to be to someone else.
From an Arab , I heard it's pronounced Neffie and it is a well-known name in Arabia. This is also because Lehi and family spent so many years traveling through Arabia. There are even several villages named after Lehi. They converted people along the way.
To add: in every language but English, an i is pronounced as ee.
The 17th letter of the Hebrew alphabet is p or f. With a point inside the letter, it is a "p", without it is an "f". The letter means "mouth" or "speak". Is the word " Navajo" spoken with an f sound in your language as in Dutch, f and v are the same sound.?
That history of the group that came over the Siberian land bridge is interesting but do you have the author's name and publisher?
Assuming you are Navajo, what does that word(s) mean? 0:11 Interested in the last syllable. In Hebrew, the "n" means "life" and every letter of a noun or name has a meaning.
@didibrant7326 Arabic is close to biblical Hebrew, and scholars use the Phoenician, Arabic, and Hebrew languages to figure out the phonetics. We don't know if the phonetics changed with the Nephites but could a group of people migrating into the Americas and the mixing of language have an effect on the language with the people here.
With the words "Lamanite" and "Nephite," the "ite" is English. In Hebrew, it is the suffix yod that is the ite and phonetically an ee sound like Isreali. Scholars believe Lamoni is Lamanite pronounced Laa-mon-ee. However, how would Nephite be pronounced? Because Nephite already had an ee sound, I have wondered if they added another suffix to note the ite like ha as in Nephihah. The Nez piece have a name similar for an ancient village in Idaho called "Nipéhe" and makes me wonder if this is a word originally based on the word Nephihah.
@@cdmbcgmI will answer your questions in order but will have to stop several times to read them.
The spoken language can change but as it was with the Hebrews in Israel, who made sure to keep the language pure, scripture would have been recorded in the " pure language" which as First Nephi 1:2 states had already corrupted to " the language of the Egyptians". It is assumed it is Hebrew with a lot of Egyptian words ( maybe grammatically different, too). The plates of Nephi were large and small. Small for sacred records ( Scriptures) and large for extended secular histories (so most likely not inspired by God). The large plates would probably have been written in whatever the language had corrupted to.) But , then near the end, Mormon had to abridge all the records of their entire 1000 years plus history under inspiration the same as some Biblical scholars believe Moses had condensed all the sacred histories of 2400 plus years.
All other languages but English would say Nepheet for the Nephite people. The only way I can explain this is: an Arab is called an Arabee but an Arabian ( or the language) is Arabeet. Same with Hebrew language" eevreet". One form is the noun. One form is the adjective. So Lamoni could be the noun and Lamoneet (Lamanite) the adjective. And you know that in modern English a Jew is usually referred to as Jewish ( the adjective) and not Jew ( the noun) as it was considered offensive but yet the adjective is not followed by the word man, woman, or people but is understood. Same case with saying Nephite, Lamanite,etc. When it comes to Nephites, maybe that is the adjective and the plural of Nephi would be Nephim as im ( eem) is the plural of masculine nouns ( things) just as Egyptians were called Mizraim ( although the son of Ham would be the singular Mizrah ?) Just rememember that any feminine nouns in plural would end in "ot" (ote) if you ever come across a group with that ending.
All this is just my 2 cents. I'm no expert.
The name Nephihah would be pronounced Nepheehah. Many Hebrew names end in "yah" ( Yehovah) or " iah" where the "i" sometimes refers to "my" as in Elijah (el=god, i = my, jah= yah) it means "my God is Jehovah". The verb "to be" is non-existant in all its conjugations. Your comment was interesting and who knows maybe that old Nipehe was named after Nephihah as the Nephites must have known and resided in the desert of the Southwest of the USA to write about a very large barren area.
I found today in one of the best books ever, written by a rabbi who converted to LDS and his son why many men in the Book of Mormon had an extra "h" in their name. It seems the Nephites decided to take both "h's" from the name of Jehovah to add to their names as an ending suffix whereas the Israelites only used one. So Nephihah would be written as Nephiah if it were in the Bible and the names mean the same. Nephi has been deducted to mean "purification" as it used to be a name in our Bible until the Apocrypha was taken out. It was in 2nd Maccabees 1:36. So Nephihah= Jehovah's purification.
Are you familiar with the story about how Abram and Sarai received one "h" each from Jehovah's name to become Abraham and Sarah? Well, it was that rabbi who prayed about "why?" and received the answer which led him to Jesus.
@didibrant7326 That is interesting on the Arabic. Thank you for that. I suppose this could also be language drift over the years. If you look at the Cherokee word Ani-kutoni. Who were people living in Tennessee before the Cherokee migrated from the North. "Ani" in some Cherokee translations is '"people of" and kutoni in some translations is "priesthood." In biblical Hebrew "the priesthood" is HKHNH (ha "the" KaHaNeaH). Getting this from from Ezra 2:62 and I believe the last character is a suffix to make it a noun, so the world priesthood is KaHaNe and could show how the language has changed over time with the Cherokee. Also, there is evidence of mixing languages from a people from Siberia. The Na-Dene and the ket in Siberia languages are very similar and wonder if that could cause language drift?
@@cdmbcgmOr to simplify:" priesthood people" since the word "of" in Hebrew is not there. That makes the word "priesthood" an adjective and the noun representing a plurality of persons. In Hebrew, the adjective matches the gender and I think the plurality of the noun also.So my guess is ,the "i" makes sense and the other vowels in that word could have changed over time or been misread if the original word was in Hebrew. The only difference I see is the "t" and the word ani for people. Ani is Hebrew for "I". But guess what? The Russian word " ani" means "they" so it could have come from the Siberian group. Thus, " they (are) priests ( kohaneem-kaf, hey, noon, yod, mem).
The priesthood, ha keh- hoo-nah ( the kohayn of yah), the priests of Ya. Btw, the word " priesthood" is feminine in Hebrew. Maybe that is why the Church is called the bride of Christ.
Elias Boudinot published a book in 1819, “A Star in the West” that turned a lot of people onto this idea of lost tribes in America even then. Also free online.
In Hebrew, Kishkumen would be pronounced Keeshkumen. There is no short i sound that I've ever seen for 50 years.
Aren’t pronunciations in modern/Israeli Hebrew based on a combination of “best-guesses” based on liturgical readings, and Yiddish, Ladino, and Judeo-Arabic dialects? From what I understand, Biblical Hebrew was basically a dead language until the late 19th/early 20th century when there was a push to revive it. We don’t REALLY know how the ancient language sounded as the vowel points are non-existent in the ancient manuscripts. So modern Hebrew is essentially an example of “this is most probably what things sounded like,” but not definitely. And THEN there’re regional dialects/accents to consider! I mean Ireland has different brogues in basically every county, and vowels are squishy things. Who’s to say ancient Hebrew had a “standard” pronunciation across all speakers?
So we can’t be certain that how words are pronounced today is how they were “actually” pronounced.
You're right on every point. In one of the Hebrew groups in Europe, they even pronounce some consonants differently. And it was a Jewish man in Lithuania who invented the modern Hebrew language sometime in the 1800's but hopefully since Rabbis have been reading the Torah all through the centuries until today, I think some of that old language has survived.
It’s an interesting story but, isn’t it possible that Joseph Smith might have come across that name before William Warren published his book. If William Warren found that information Joseph Smith could have too. Apparently Joseph Smith was a voracious reader.
Possible, I suppose. But there's no evidence of that, and it would be weird for Joseph Smith to then alter the spelling and pronunciation of it.
He only had rudimentary education with little access to books apart from the family bible
@@vickib1469 that’s what you’ve been taught all your life and as a young boy that was maybe the case but Joseph Smith was in his twenties when the Book of Mormon was written. He had been involved in many religious discussions and exposed to many ideas as a teen by (by his own words)and had access to many interesting volumes of books that were circulating in the east. Even the Old Testament can be very interesting and inspiring to someone with a sharp mind and imagination.
If Keesh-ke-mun was alive from 1740 to 1827, why do you think Joseph Smith would not have heard of him?
I know right? My wife's grandfather (Cherokee) is in Oklahoma. Do you know him?
Book written in 1885 long after Smith's death. It's not like they had the Internet back then. No way the prophet Joseph Smith knew of him.
@@bethbrock2797 Regardless of the 1895 book, Keesh-ke-mun was alive at the same time Joseph was alive and lived in the Great Lakes region, as did Joseph. It's not at all a stretch to say it's plausible that the Smith family would have heard of this well-known Ojibwe chief.
But isn't Ojibwe NOT of those tribes mentioned in the Book of Mormon? I think that they are all supposed to be from Israel, the tribe of Manasseh? Whereas the Ojibwe isn't connected to them?
Do you think the name (word) of the Ojibwe tribe is 2000 plus years old? It’s likely Ojibwe was a word developed years later.
@@senecaaurelius1811 So not connected to the tribe of Manasseh, then?
@@ts-900 Lehi's people are connected to Manasseh. The Ojibwe could be descendants of Jaredites. It isn't clear in the Book of Mormon that all Jaredites perished in their wars.
@@ts-900 I don’t understand your questions, I guess.
I believe that the LDS claim that the Lamanites are from the tribe of Manasseh.
***(View of the Hebrews) was written in 1823. No Hebrew DNA, Y-Chromosome or Mitochondria in American Natives. LDS missions had been going on for 50 years before that book.***
There's DNA evidence
@@Lamanitehistory ***Wrong. No evidence of Hebrew DNA. Kennewick Man a 7000BC Native American, had Mitochondrial mtDNA (X2a) in America 6400 years before the claimed Nephites & Lamanites. 3000 years before the claimed Jaredites. Mitochondrial mtDNA (X2a) is not Hebrew. Individuals in the Levant with (Haplogroup X) are not Hebrew & aren't (X2a). They are: X, X1, X2b & X2b1, not (X2a). They are extreme minorities, not Hebrew & are the wrong X-Haplogroup.*** You have any real evidence, like the Nephite cave on Hill Cumorah open for scientists??? The Nephite gold & silver coins with Hebrew on them? Supposedly there was millions of Nephites who were rich & prosperous with such coins. Find any?
He came to his own conclusion... using confirmation bias
He's aiding in the white washing of history. Snuffing out the real history and tradition of the ancient native people who once conquered this land.
No! It’s not Mythology.
@uncovering lamanitehistory . Kish is a Biblical name and in Hebrew means "bow" as a bow( noun). Over time as languages change, it is very possible that newer languages may have a new meaning.
A converted Jewish rabbi and his son to LDS state in their book that all names but two in the Book of Mormon have Jewish roots. The two exceptions are the names Bountiful and Desolation which Joseph decided to write as the English translation.
I have learned some Hebrew for a year and with the help of that book, here is a possible Hebrew meaning:
Kish= bow , cum( contracted from cumi) = arise, en (contracted from ayin to alef, noon [ a real word in Strong's Concordance] )= whence, where, etc. Thus, " whence the bow arises"
That is cool! What is the title of this book!?
@@vincentorr507 Spiritual Vision by David B. Cohen , M.D. and Irving H. Cohen, D.D.S.
DNA ???
There is already a video on that. The Algonquin natives in the Great Lakes have DNA from the Middle East.
th-cam.com/video/GV6FtX29na4/w-d-xo.htmlsi=trhqPaP6cpReVuX7
**Wrong. No evidence of Hebrew DNA. Kennewick Man a 7000BC Native American, had Mitochondrial mtDNA (X2a) in America 6400 years before the claimed Nephites & Lamanites. 3000 years before the claimed Jaredites. Mitochondrial mtDNA (X2a) is not Hebrew. Individuals in the Levant with (Haplogroup X) are not Hebrew & aren't (X2a). They are: X, X1, X2b & X2b1, not (X2a). They are extreme minorities, not Hebrew & are the wrong X-Haplogroup.** You have any real evidence, like the Nephite cave on Hill Cumorah open for scientists??? The Nephite gold & silver coins with Hebrew on them? Supposedly there was millions of Nephites who were rich & prosperous with such coins. Find any?
How come js wouldn't have known?
I'm not sure if Joseph would have known, but if so, the anti-mormon crowd would have been quick to jump on him about it! They would have known it as well, and they wouldn't have missed out on an opportunity to discredit him, you can bet on that!
@wa1den oh I'm sure it's suspect either way. How could it not be? I mean even the word of wisdom as a revelation when the general thought back then was going a very healthy way of living...but interestingly the church never made it a commandment until 1929. That is very interesting seeing the prohibition was being enacted around the same time. So many instances point to coincidence 🤔. Lol we will only find out when that dsrj angel brings back the plates or we find evidence of the true history of the people in the book of mormon. That seems to be the crazy part. Faith must be a very important part of God's plan because, either he didn't want anyone to have anything associated with the book of mormon or its all just a story made up. Mu hunch??? A fabulous story that built a wealthy church.
Oh of course
The curious part of me wonders why it seems to be always that. Similar accounts of interest that always points back to how JS had been influenced by so many things that it is easy to see that the book of mormon is probably a great story made up and published.
@jake8882 Actually, you could apply pretty much the same arguments to Jesus Christ himself, and non-believers do, in fact! They say, "so, where is he? If he's really still alive, why doesn't he come and show himself?" They say, "How convenient! We're just supposed to take it on faith!" So, it seems like the doctrines and beliefs of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints bear an amazing similarity to the kind of things Christ and his followers said and testified of! There will always be doubters and folks who mock and ridicule..... that just never changes! But, there ARE a lot of very credible things, and things that are not easily explained away that give a solid basis for looking more seriously at the claims made by the church! There are just TOO MANY COINCIDENCES to actually really be coincidence! Too many things that were not known in the times of Joseph Smith.... things that he and the church were mocked over, which over time have turned out to be real, and verified as having existed in the ancient world, even though no one knew of it in Joseph Smith's times! But, hey, nobody is going to do a "Holy Inquisition" on you, and end your life if you don't get on board with it.... so, you're free to decide for yourself! Be as skeptical and unbelieving as you want! It's your right and privilege!
Spanish is the key
Statistically this is very likely a random event Coincidental.
And Hebrew? Don’t forget the DNA analysis? Grasping for straws, people.
The idea that American Indians were descendants of Israel is not unique to the writings of Joseph Smith. In the 1800s it was a commonly held belief among many, which is why it features in books like View of the Hebrews and other writings that predate Joseph's creation of the Book of Mormon. That idea is no longer commonly held however, except for within the Mormon church. Though as time goes on I wouldn't be surprised if the Mormon church continued to distance itself from that idea as much as it can without obviously invalidating Joseph's writings.
Did you know that Kishkumen is fictional until PROVEN otherwise.
You gotta think and believe like everyone else. Or no "heart" for you!
@@outlawedmedia4336 Because he was a "character" in the fictional Book of Mormon.
@@sdfotodude Agreed.
The burden of proof lies on the people claiming he is fictional
@@matthewgadd7057 Sure it is. Not my circus... not my mental gymnastics, I will wait for proof.
Some Americans hold some very whacked out beliefs, they are not bred from common sense, but too much freedom tends to do that.
Natives aren't Lamenties, shame on you for saying this BS tale.
How do you know?
@@joshradson2649 In the same way I know Natives aren't descended from Leprechauns.
@@lukegraven7839 That isn't a very convincing argument. Did you know that they have found possibly unidentified haplogroups in America?
@@joshradson2649Unidentified doesn't mean anything. You're trying to give credence to a 19th-century comic book.
@@lukegraven7839 Yes it does, because they are Middle Eastern haplogroups.
This is mythology.
Smith et al, gathered many character names for their blasphemous BoM novel. Your video does nothing to shore up the frail truth claims that your anti-christian church is true.
You really do not know what you're talking about. That's not meant to be an insult, but seriously, the comment you're making is definitely coming from one of ignorance. Additionally, the same tools you've been taught to use against others to dissuade their faith will be turned against you in a future day - and it won't come from us.
@@kz6fittycent So you're saying the BoM is false without saying it? I know it must be a grand frustration to be worshiping Satan yet believing - KNOWING - you are worshiping Jesus. Now that's supreme ignorance my mormon friend.
@@kz6fittycent Thanks, I love to tell the story of when I was in college in 1986 and the door bell rang. Two of the nicest LDS Elder Missionaries came into the humble house I was renting with two other military veterans and shared the Book of Mormon with me. I listened to everything they said and shared with them that I was a Christian of no denomination and had spent many years studying the Bible and serving God through Jesus Christ. They asked me to read the Book of Mormon "Prayerfully" and ask god whether it was true or not. I had not heard anything about the Mormons before this encounter except for maybe that they do not drink coffee. It was very curious to me that they came to my door with a mission and desire for me to learn what they confessed to me as “the one true church." I did what they asked because, after all, this may have been a Holy appointment where God was telling me there is more than the Bible for you to study, live by, and share with others. I read the BoM all week, prayed, fasted, asked of the Lord whether it was true or not, and I was, in fact, moved to an illuminated answer. The Elders returned two weeks later and I asked them in. Their first question was did I read the BoM as we discussed. I told them I red the BoM "prayerfully" as instructed and received an answer from the Holy Spirit that this was NOT the word of God but rather a shabby concoction of 19th century mock-bible stories, written by a fraud. The huge amount of anachronistic issues was profound, along with the lack of Spiritual inspiration. I knew in my heart that this was NOT the Word of the God I serve. As I shared this with the Elders, they said this never happened before and that the BoM possesses certain qualities where you will be told it is true if you read it and feel a "warmth in your bosom." I felt only the Holy Spirit sounding a warning that this blasphemy of the Mormon religion was a cult where the practitioners are kept in toil and works as a way to keep them off balance and bleed them of time, talent and treasure. I saw through the false stories and lack of geographic locations and archeological evidences. It further gave me a burden that these nice young men, my age and my likened sense of humor, were captives in this web of Satanic deception. After I retired from the military service after 38 years, I decided to make my life's goal as a Christian, to expose LDS by the very historic documents written by LDS. My church today is full of x-mormons with a testimony of their life under the deception of LDS. How about you, have you examined the evidence of the Bible compared to the evidence of the BoM? Have you asked of God to let the scales fall off your eyes? Seek first the Kingdom of God and His righteousness and all these things shall be added unto you. Come to me, all of you who are weary and carry heavy burdens, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you. Let me teach you, because I am humble and gentle at heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy to bear, and the burden I give you is light.
MATTHEW 11:28-30
"the church won't lead you astray" ...but they'll continually make revisions to their "history" as facts prove things to be impossible.
In the meantime there's always Going Out & Being a Christian - actually DO Good instead of "thinking celestial"
This is ALL blasphemous to Christ & the entire bible
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints actively admonishes its members to be "doers, not hearers only", and emphasizes both love and service to God, as well as to our fellow man/humankind. If our prophet and leader tells us that we should also "think celestial", that in no way detracts from the aforementioned things, which we zealously endeavor to practice! As with any group of mortal human beings, some of our membership may be more zealous than others, but that was equally true of the disciples in the times of Christ and His apostles! And, I might add, independent studies done by folks not of the LDS faith, who have studied and compared the habits and practices of most of the well known faiths of our times have concluded based on concrete data that members of the LDS faith tend to be MORE ACTIVE, MORE FAITHFUL, AND MORE DEDICATED, and MORE GIVING AND HUMANITARIAN than members of ANY OTHER FAITH IN THEIR STUDIES!
The same kinds of accusations you make against the members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints were regularly made both against Christ himself, and against his disciples, and against the church that He established, and YOU MODERN DAY PHARISEES FOLLOW I THE SAME FOOTSTEPS AS THE ONES OF CHRIST'S TIMES! You are equally fanatical and bent on holding everyone around you to YOUR PRIVATE INTERPRETATIONS OF SCRIPTURE, inflexibly and based on your own limited reasoning and culturally limited modern-day mind-set, just as the pharisrees of old! Frankly, if Christ were here in person in our days, and taught the same uncorrupted gospel he originally taught to His original disciples, your kind would undoubtedly be wanting to crucify Him, just as the pharisrees of old did!
Since you missed it: “think celestial” is meant to remind us to think about the good in the world when things seem bleak, to be kind when it’s easy to be mean, to serve and love others when you feel like things are too dark or difficult and there’s no point. It’s meant to point us toward God and truth in a world that wants us to pay attention to confusion and lies.
And, in case you missed it again, that involves serving, helping, healing, befriending, etc, those around us. Because that is how the world is made better: each of us individually seeing God’s hand in each day and helping others see it too.
@@wa1den Love how you deflect attention away from the LDS church by veering off about other religions and faiths and also comparing LDS members as disciples and even Christ himself. It may well be true that LDS members are more giving and humanitarian than members of other faiths HOWEVER, the LDS church (corporation) has amassed $100's BILLIONS in wealth yet commits less than 1% of it's massive wealth to humanitarian causes. In fact LDS church (corporation) has recently been fined $5 MILLION by the SEC for fraudulently hiding away $32 BILLION from authorities. This totally dishonest, the the church leaders should be held accountable to its members for this gross dishonesty as it goes completely against church values as laid out in the Articles of Faith.
You know, you’re an accuser. Satan is also an accuser. Your rhetoric is ample evidence you do not have the spirit of the Lord with you nor do you bear forth the fruits of His gospel.
Like charity. The #1 way Christ said to BE Christian. The church refuses to provide food boxes like every other Christian church. The ppl are good ppl, it's Mormon leaders I admonish
Very cool!