Discover The Ancient Secrets Of Joseph Smith's Book Of Joseph From Egypt
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Was the Book of Joseph of Egypt found with the Book of Abraham? If so, do we have it today? Did Joseph Smith translate the Book of Joseph? Were there Vignettes/Facsimiles like the ones we found with the Book of Abraham? What was/is in the Book of Joseph?
Join Bruce Porter and Greg as they UNVEIL what few know about this part of Church History and what we have today. You'll see the actual fragments of the papyrus, the vignettes/facsimiles, and images and the writing of the Book of the Dead, a portion of the scroll.
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Years ago I worked with William D Sill. He was the CES Institute Director and also a Professor working with Religious studies and a Paleontologist. He shared with me portions of records on loan from religious studies. I was a young return missionary who was tutored by his insights. I have never forgotten his love for scriptures and seeking truth. Thank you for your excitement in sharing these messages.
I have long wondered about the Book of Joseph and its manuscript. I trust Heavenly Father to give it to us when WE are prepared.
I so enjoyed this presentation and appreciate your efforts to give us this food for study.
Thanks you Brother Matsen and Porter. Warmest Regards.
The books of Abraham and Joseph are definitely not the truth. But it does make me wonder if these others are part of the Book of the Dead too. Book of the Dead is pretty evil, so it doesn't surprise me.
This is not an episode you can watch only one time! Absolutely fascinating, enlightening and exciting! Thank you both!❤
Glad you enjoyed it!
This is a guest that was good . Great show . Some of your other guests . Not so good .
I would absolutely love more episodes on Egyptian texts and religious studies! Thank you so much to you and Brother Porter for taking the time to share this.
Glad you did this episode! Thanks Greg.
You’re welcome
I love listening to these types of thought provoking discussions. Thanks Greg. Love your show!
You're welcome!
I hope we’re moving in the direction to receive more too. Brass plates, sealed portion, and more. Maybe it’s part of Pres. Nelson’s prophecy that in the coming days we’ll see the greatest manifestation of the Lords power, but if not I’ll continue to study what we have and wait. Thanks for the video.
Though it's not quite the brass plates or sealed portion, I do believe that the 3 books commenting on finding the temple liturgy within the new testament and the book of mormon by D. John Butler, to be quite a restoration of lost plain and precious truths. Check them out if you enjoy reading books about ancient Israelite temple worship
@@MichaelGMoney Just got In the Language of Adam
@@MichaelGMoneyyou can not trust John Butler. He adds untruths . These two guys did a good job and no teaching anything false . This was the greatest .
@@lindamartinez7006
Do you have an example of these untruths? Cause I haven't run across an example of him outright lying about something. These books are his interpretation of scriptures, not meant to be read AS scripture. So you don't have to agree with everything he says, but I am curious what you think is false information
@lindamartinez7006 Linda please reply, I am genuinely curious what is an untruthful claim of D. John Butler, if I'm being led away I would hope someone who knows better would reach out and tell me I'm going the wrong way
Joseph Smith was certainly blessed with the ability to find ancient documents, translate them, then lose them again. Here he seems to outdo himself by losing documents and the translation both. It is a new and elevated level of faith that trusts that something important happen but no one knows exactly what.
Blew my mind. As Bruce talked about the translation I couldn't help but think of the temple. Wow! Awesome as always.
Glad you enjoyed it
It's just the same old worshiping of the Egyptian pagan gods.
I do hope the History of Joseph of Egypt will soon be shown to all of us.
When I was young, I remember my father receiving a translated manuscript with commentary and pictures called The Bok of Joseph. It was claimed to be a smuggled copy directly from the church archives. It was a long time ago, but I do distinctly remember looking at a snake walking on two legs.
The walking snake is Nehebkau - the primordial snake god in ancient Egyptian mythology, very evil. Probably their version of Satan.
If had to give a title to that scroll I would call it "Having Been True and Faithful." The book of Joseph is all about the temple!
Probably more like the Breathing Permit of _____ from the evil book of the Dead, literally. Just like the extremely fake book of Abraham.
At the end, I was glad you brought up the record of John. I am currently reading a record called "The Great Gospel of John" that i believe may be at least part what was promised in D&C about John's record. It was transcribed by an Austrian man named Jakob Lorber in the 1840's and 50's. It is beyond fascinating, truly uplifting, and so far in line with what the restored gospel teaches.
Some of us are preparing for more!!
Joseph has always been my favorite biblical prophet.
This is fascinating. As a temple worker I can see how this connects ❤
The upside down pyramid is very significant. The artist/architect of the Louvre understood this when he placed an upside down pyramid within an upright pyramid
This was amazing and I believe as well we won't get mire scripture until we truly read, study and Pinder that which we have been so bless to have. This touched my soul making me mire eager to study more what we do have!
Yeah Bruce Porter!!! Dang wish I could go to y’all’s tours! Sounds like eye opening stuff
Me too, it's so expensive 😢
Yes!! I have read The Book of Joseph and Asenath and it solidified my testimony when the Lord was leading me in my comeback to the church. Just awesome!
I LOVE studying ancient apocryphal texts outside of the Bible because they present SO much truth that validates what our church teaches. It's a testimony to me that this really is the Restored church of Jesus Christ. Some of my favorites are:
*The Great Scrolls of Melchizedek (from the dead sea scrolls)
*The Lost Books of Eden
*The Testimony of the Twelve Patriarchs (dead sea scrolls)
*The Writings of Abraham (unknown source, to me it feels like the rest of the Book of Abraham)
*The Book of Enoch
*Joseph and Asenath (particularly the Book titled The Lost Scroll)
@@jillosborn6886thankyou for listing these! Helpful list! Have you listened to or read the Gospel or Book of Nicodemus? It's excellent & has things I didn't know about events in the Savior's life & resurrection & proposes who the two witnesses will be talked about in Rev.11. ❤
That is kissed
@@jillosborn6886where can I go to access these records? They sound interesting!
It reminds me of the Legend of Adapa which parallels with Adam, but it is given like an endowment. Only Adapa does not eat of the bread and the gods criticize this saying Adapa could have been like the gods, and they send him back to earth to be a mortal. To me that legend originally likely taught like the endowment, that man must not yield to the trickster who advises Adapa to not partake of the bread of life and water of life, our Adam story gives the same message a different way to not yield to temptation but because mankind does, a covenant path to return is established. Adapa shows entrance to heaven and because he yielded to what god or tempter of the Earth said he rejected the invitation to eat from the plate and cup of the gods. Nevertheless he was clothed by them. Mesopotamia takes the Laman and Lemuel approach of victimhood and the gods of the sky being bullies and favoring the tempter of the earth to be the one who gives them wisdom.
One of those most interesting especially the JST in Genesis
My patriarchal blessing tells me to study Joseph. Kinda makes me wonder if the book of Joseph will be revealed in my lifetime. If anyone knows any sources for me to study Joseph, please share. I don't know where to look much more than what's in the Old Testament.
There is a wonderful writing called "Joseph and Asenath" Great symbolism.
@@CwicShow Thank you so much. I will definitely start reading it.
@@CwicShowwho wrote it ?
@@lindamartinez7006 I just ordered the translated one by Joseph Lumpkin. No idea if that was the best one to get though.
Mine mentions something similar too! The Testimony of the Twelve Patriarchs found in the dead sea scrolls has not only a testimony from Joseph of Egypt, but all his brothers' about him. It is an amazing text. Also, the apocraphal texts, the Book of Jubilees and Book of Jasher talk about Joseph and his life. Just remember to follow the guide Moroni gave us in Moroni 10:3-20 and what was revealed to Joseph Smith about apocraphal te ts in D&C
Interesting stuff. However, the origin of the papiry is missing one important link. Before Antonio Lebolo there was Giovanni Battista Belzoni, "The Great Bezoni:" a circus strongman who became the greatest archaeologist in the history of archaeology. He's the one who unearthed the treasures of Egypt, including the mummies and papiry own by Joseph Smith. Many books have been written on Belzoni. Check him out.
Thankyou! I can feel of both of your love of the gospel of Jesus Christ. I'm so grateful to be living in these exciting times!
This is awesome. I think the key is going to the Temple. (Instead of flipping through the scriptures while there, let the Spirit whisper which chapters to read.)
Great episode Greg! I love being able to learn more history in an hour than all the time it would take me to study all the nonsense to get to the good stuff presented here.
Thanks Greg. Great information
My pleasure!!
"Awesome information,
very exciting stuff!"
A very interesting interview...thanks very much!
If that's the same one I read... I love that book of Joseph. It felt like a loving grand father soeaking to me.
If it’s too sacred to be published, that fits the sacred nature of the temple, in my opinion.
If these texts exist and are still held by the Church, I doubt that would be a suitable solution. If the online zeitgeist, in addition to my own encounters with other members are any indication, we can't handle what we have, and we're worse at it now than we've ever been. So many young people "getting uncomfortable" in the Temple, complaining about Temple garments and asking for more and more accommodations and adjustments to the ceremonies. Then there are those who acquiesce to their sensitivity and neuroses, which include the rest of us. A frail and selfish generation, coddled by cowards. If that is the measure of our ilk, we don't deserve additional light and knowledge.
@@TheYgds A frail and selfish generation raised up by a generation too divorced or distracted enough to care to raise them. I can't count how many times I've heard people discuss parents who divorced, retired early and didn't bother helping their children, or being all but abandoned and left adrift spiritually and economically in a sinking world by their parents. Church members are a great exception to this trend, but even then it bleeds into the Church and into this next generation.
The presidency dies not adjust anything by complaints . Only by revelation . But if you want to believe that oh well .
@@TheYgds any adjustments to the temple are not from anyone asking .
@@lindamartinez7006 I'm not sure about that. The Temple ceremony has had fundamental changes, and there is some evidence that covenant penalties, for example, should be an intrinsic part of the rites. Regardless of whether these have been crass political adjustments, or were brought by revelation, I think it indicates a serious cultural flaw in we who would presume to build up Zion.
I learned a lot, thanks!
You're welcome.
Thank you, it was awesome, loved it.
So where does the scrolls that were destroyed in a fire at the Wood Museum in Chicago fit into all of this?
Scrolls and mummies after Joseph’s death went to mother Lucy then after her death to Emma then to Joseph Smith III then he sold to a man named Able Combs he sold the majority of the scrolls and the mummies to the st. Luis museum the st. Luis museum sold them to the Wood museum in Chicago which burned to the ground and these artifacts were most likely destroyed in the fire. Able combs kept some of the fragments and passed them on to I believe his house keeper those fragments were eventually sold to the metropolitan museum in ny and when the fragments provenance was later discovered the church purchased the fragments and are what we have today there are a lot of articles detailing these better than I have in this short message but you get the idea
Good question... How much of the original papyrus survived?
Very interesting discussion!
Awesome discussion!
Good to hear!
Really amazing information. Thanks so much !!!! I wonder how much of the record of Joseph that we partially find in the Book of Mormon, how much more is actually found in the Brass Plates. Cant wait for the time when we have these scriptures .
Excellent
THANK YOU FOR ALL YOUR RESEARCH... LOVE TO READ THE JOSEPH PAPYRUS.. WILL BE COMING FORTH.. HOW THE LORD WORKS... WE STAND ALL AMAZED.. 80 YEAR OLD FROM THE TOPS OF THE MOUNTAINS ISAIAH 2
I hope it will be added into our scriptures. I think this is exciting. Elder Holland hinted about more to come pertaining to scripture. What a shot in the arm!
Fun episode! I would love you to talk to Kerry Muhlestein about these papyri!
Very good! Thank you.
You're welcome!
Clearly Joseph Smith intended this to be translated and shared with the church.
Perhaps we will have the Book of Joseph in the New Jerusalem.
Interesting, tks!
would you please give us links to any reference you make to papers like the gideon boak joseph conection so we may reference those and read them ? thanks for this wonderful information.
Maybe there could be a copy available in the temples?
Towards the end of this video, there were some pictures of papyrus with lots of text, one showing the snake with legs, where can one see these? Or pictures of them?
Wikipedia, Book of Joseph - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Joseph
When you showed the snake or serpent with legs it helped me to understand what punishment it must have been for him to hear from the Lord upon being cast out of His presence: "upon thy belly shalt thou go. And dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life."
@@nancylowe2692 I’m not sure a snake ever actually walked . That is given to Satan not areal snake . Satan was called a serpent when he was thrown out in the war in heaven symbolism name .
I really don't much about it but there is a mummy in the big science center in Baton Rouge La sealed in a clear case with written explanation buy it has been many yrs since I've been there and I just don't remember what they claim in the writings. This podcast brought thus back to memory so I going there and see what they claim in the writings available to read
Bene-Nephi and Kircher would like a word, you guys would love their work.
Fun
I don't understand. So several sources say that the history of Joseph was on the papyri, and some suggest that Joseph Smith translated it, but we simply have lost the record? Or, did Joseph simply read it but never write it down? Or do we not know?
Hard to say isn't it?
Don't we know that Joseph was on the lam when this and many other things were coming together?
We don’t know for sure. It is obvious however that he knew at least some of what was in the book.
At 14:10, Joseph and Asenath were discussed. In a book about the people of the different dispensation, the section on Joseph states that his wife, Asenath, was of the seed of Adam, and not born an Egyptian. She was the adopted daughter of the Egyptian priest of Heliopolis, and her mother was Dinah, the sister of Joseph, who died while Asenath was a baby.
Pharaoh loved Joseph for his devotion and integrity and wanted to reward him for saving the kingdom of Egypt by allowing him to take a bride from the most beautiful maidens in all Egypt. Asenath hoped in her heart that he would choose her, but she felt unworthy. A miracle occurred where Asenath fell into a deep sleep during the day and she was covered in bees that did not hurt her. Joseph had a dream where he saw a large golden bee land on the top of his staff, and the bee turned into a large blooming red rose. He heard about the miracle of Asenath and they talked, where Joseph learned about her past and the miracle of the bees.
One of Pharaohs sons was in love with Asenath and planned to marry her, but when Joseph married her, the son developed an hatred for the Hebrews, which carried over with his sons. This was the motivation for the Egyptians to destroy any records of Joseph and why the Hebrews where made slaves.
[Before you ask what the book is, it is from an online source by a person who wishes to remain anonymous and claims to have had his Second Comforter. I find a lot of what he shares fascinating, but you will need to decide if it makes sense or doesn't to you; or if there are other supporting documents like what Greg shared that have similar information.]
It would be easier to believe this account if the author did not defend the theory of transmigration...
At the end you talk about not being ready to receive additional scriptures. Specifically, what more can we do to receive them? If a people feels they are ready to receive more, what do you believe is preventing this?
Not searching the words of Isaiah for one…
Not taking the book of mormon seriously. There are a lot of members that argue the book of mormon is not a genuine history, that it's historical fiction at best, completely made up moral teachings at worst. There's so much information packed into the Book of Mormon it makes anti mormons sick lol they get so sick they can't even absorb a hundredth part of the information
Follow the teachings in the Book of Mormon specifically about contributions and having many wives and concubines.
Not the we don't do that now, it is always abominable before the Lord.
Have we restored the teachings, corrected the scriptures, and repented of the blasphemy that it came from the Lord through a prophet?
And about contributions to all give according to their ability?
(Mosiah 4:24; 18:27)
Hypocricy? Not taking our covenants seriously? ( only wearing the garment when it is convenient for example), not honoring the Sabbath. I think we need to repent.
The scripture we have is sufficient to teach us how to (1) obey all commandments outwardly. (2l they teach all we need to know how to obey them all in our hearts.
(3) It contains sufficient to teach us how to seek to serve others, at the Father's request, in all times and places, with such a pure heart and possessing the gifts of the spirit, being such an example of the Savior to them, that we might teach them in His absence, the same as He would do if He were here.
(4)The scriptures teach us all we need to know to obey the law of Consecration externally and in our hearts.
...Once this is done, we receive the opportunity to see Him, as the Brother of Jared and be taught from on High, by the second comforter. Then we shall learn the last Covenant better than we know here at this time.
.
The reason we don't have more is because He doesn't want us to get busy on things we are not ready for yet.
How might one obtain one of the Ani Papyrus replicas you showed (short of going to Egypt)?
Not sure.
@@CwicShow Thank you. I posted that after doing an online search. Was just hoping you might be aware of some obscure source.
So strange to see the most evil books being touted as books of Abraham and Joseph. Obviously, anything but holy, anything but the handwriting of Abraham or of Joseph.
16:04 Vignette from Book of the Dead for Nefer-ir-nebu.
29:17 Un-nefer - the official name of Osiris after he was promoted to Lord of the Underworld that Bruce Porter says is "the great God"
The scroll that is most commonly identified as the Book of Joseph belonged to an Egyptian woman named Ta-sherit-Min(also Tshemmin, Semminis). The surviving portion of the Book of the Dead for Ta-sherit-Min includes all or portions of spells [37 spells listed].
I’ve never heard anyone pronounce “papyrus” like that.
Honestly, I am horrible with pronunciation. I read so much more than I hear. I am self taught. That is probably why.
@@CwicShow No worries; you're fine! Several of my sons are the same way. 😄 Being a big reader is a great thing.
Who owns the book Joseph now? The Church? Do they acknowledge it? Is it being prepared for inclusion in the scriptures?
From what I understand and I just started this video: If the church does have it, I suspect it is not published because the entire temple drama is depicted in it. Many suspect the temple ordinances were given as revelation following up on aspects of the Book of Joseph.
There’s a historical account of the apostles going to get it that suggests they succeeded. And like others have said it likely depicts a whole endowment and sacred things of that nature the world isn’t prepared for, so it’s not published.
My understanding is that God directs this work and any translation process.
He determined this book would help Joseph understand how to present the Endowment to us, as He was yet still imperfect.
If we are ever called to make changes to the Endowment, the church, I suspect, will open these to us, to guide us, same as the brethren who have access to it now.
.
Until then, our job is to learn from the presentation, live the principles ourselves until we meet Christ face to face... then He will give us more.
If it was being prepared in the time of Joseph Smith as they pointed to, it would be pretty sad that we have not progressed as a people in 200 years to receive it.
If it does allude to the temple, it would likely be in a form similar to the hieroglyphs where only the initiated, so to speak, would understand. Similar to the parables.
I do not believe that is a strong argument to withhold this book from the world the people. People will receive what they need to at the level they are ready for.
Enoch's Pillar at the 41 m mark, was talked about by Isaiah:
Isaiah 19:19
"In that day shall there be an altar to the Lord in the midst of the land of Egypt, and a pillar at the border thereof to the Lord."
The "pillar" was the great pyramid, an altar to God.
Joseph Breshear's "Lost Scriptures of Giza" says that the great pyramid was built by Enoch, who was Thoth. The "Elohim" revealed to Enoch that they were going to destroy the Earth and the wicked sons of men for misusing the knowledge that the Elohim had given them. Enoch built the pyramid as the world's largest book and encoded it with the knowledge of the gods. The pyramid was encased with 144k white stones with writings in them. Internally, the pyramid contains the knowledge of the Gods in mathematics, frequency, and vibration.
It is interesting that the Emerald Tablets, the Enuma Elish, the JS Book of Moses- they all tell the same story. Stuff that JS couldn't have known but by revelation.
Except the pyramids were built before the time of Isaiah. You'll note he states, "in that day" which means that the pillar has not yet been erected. And the pyramids are not at the border of Egypt. All of this indicates that the pyramids were not what Isaiah was talking about.
@@genericyoutubeuser3828 Breshear's assertion is that Enoch built the pyramid and encoded on the 144k exterior white stones the knowledge of the Sethites, the knowledge of the Elohim. Enoch knew the flood was coming, and wanted to preserve the knowledge in a way that could survive the catastrophe. Obviously, Isaiah came after the flood, but the hypothesis is that as the stones were removed post flood, the knowledge therein formed the basis for the ancient Babylonian, Egyptian, Assyrian and Hebrew texts. The prophecy referenced could have been given previously and Isaiah was repeating it. I am not claiming that Breshear is correct, but it is an interesting hypothesis, and the book is an enlightening read.
@@Bigblue16 We know that "in that day" the pillar will be erected. When is that? In the future from the time of Isaiah. You say that perhaps Isaiah is quoting a pre-flood prophesy. But there's no evidence of that. In fact, the process of Egypt building this altar and pillar is shown to take place when Judah is harassing them. So, the text strongly implies that Enoch has nothing to do with this altar and pillar. It will be built at a time when Judah can be conquer them.
I will amend one of my earlier critiques. After reviewing other Bible translations, it seems the pillar will be erected on the border of the altar not the border of the land. So, technically the pyramid is not disqualified for this reason. But the fact that Isaiah is talking about a future event seems to be enough.
@genericyoutubeuser3828 I guess it depends on when you think the pyramids were built and what they were used for. Breshear cites a bunch of sources in his book regarding Enoch as the builder, which makes sense to me. When do you think they were built and by whom?
@@Bigblue16 I think one simple explanation is that the Egyptians built them. In fact, have you ever done research into the figure known as Imhotep? He was the architect behind Egypt's first pyramid. He was a legendary friend and associate to the Pharaoh. His wisdom was so great that he became essentially deified in Egyptian religion. He matches the description of either Abraham or Joseph. The patriarchs Abraham or Joseph acting as master builders and designers of the pyramids is intriguing. But that's one possibility.
But I'm not even saying Enoch didn't build the pyramids. I'm just narrowly critiquing Brother Breshear's use of Isaiah 19:19 to prove something that has no connection it's original text. In short, this is not when Isaiah was talking about. I don't like it when individuals twist the meaning of scriptures. I doubt Breshear means any disrespect to the holy scriptures, but by wresting them that's what he's doing. If you want to prove that the pyramids were built by Enoch, that's totally fine. But he shouldn't use Isaiah's words to do so.
Where can I find the reference where Joseph said the scrolls covered the floor of the Mansion house?
Nobody knows? It was mentioned in the video.
Greg, another beautiful fascinating video. I love your content and thought processes, we are so like minded.. i wanted to recommend that you check out the works of one of my favorite LDS authors named Michael Rush. Fascinating and i believe extremely discerning takes on the end times scriptures and amazing thoughts on the lost 10 tribes, the last days, and incredible events we may be in store for. I am really aligned in his ideas and you should consider having him on your show! I love his thoughts on so many deep gospel theory discussions and what we are experiencing. His discussions on a lot of the historical and apocryphal stuff is so insightful, i cant help but think youd find his books and youtube videos amazing. His thoughts on heartland model, on book of enoch, etc. Like a lot of last days focused authors there are some detractors who are close minded and its obvious they dont quite understand or try to make him into something he isnt. But i feel incredibly uplifted by his books as they discuss the interesting history and scriptures. A Remnant Shall Return is a great book he wrote.. i highly recommend!
Just thought id share Greg! Thanks for all your content, its a blessing in many of our lives!
Amazing isn’t!!!!!❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️
Why not have the book of Joseph and the rest of Abraham available to be read inside the temple?????
Dreamin....they have been cutting off scriptures to fit new societal norms.
how do I get one of those papyrus scrolls Greg has!?!?
Come to Egypt with us!
@@CwicShow let's go!
34:16 the quote from Joseph smith to me indicates it was an actual translation (at least the way he saw it) and not a revelatory “translation”
No because he Joseph Smith dud explain it came from revelation . Even after awhile the Book of Mormon Joseph Smith no longer used anything to translate the Book of Mormon but inspiration .
12 Serpents (Seraphs perhaps?) sitting above Osirus
If ancient middle eastern lineages were matriarchal, why is the lineage of Abraham patriarchal? Have I misunderstood something? Thanks for another great program today.
It's both. It is Patriarchal, the Patriarch leads the family, he is the head of the family, he is the religious leader of the family, BUT only if the matriarch has chosen him. Think of a husband and wife, the best families are families where the father is the leader but only if the Mother is by his side, and is on board with what's happening. That's how I understand it anyways, but I'm dumb so don't listen to me lol
@@MichaelGMoney Somehow, Michael, I do not think you’re dumb at all. Not even close. Your point was mentioned in the recent CWIC video, but I had forgotten. But I’m old, so I forgive myself. The reason I am curious is because genetically speaking, the maternal line is more consistent because the maternal line codes mitochondrial DNA. Native American families were all maternal, I believe, though I might be wrong on this. Some of the upper Midwestern tribes share a Y-chromosome characteristic with Middle Eastern people, but I have not heard anything about sharing of mitochontrial DNA traces. Perhaps you can educate me.
@drmichaelshea uh oh, you're also a Michael, you're on to me lol I had heard about the native American tribes being matrilineal and it makes me think of how jews also are matrilineal, which ties back into your original comment I suppose. Now I'm also curious and unsure of how that would work. Maybe its like you can only be chosen if your lineage is a certain y chromosome otherwise you can't be a patriarch? That's makes us wonder about our current day patriarchs, maybe a DNA test is in order lol
@@MichaelGMoney I consulted the scriptures and found this advice that sounds good: “But avoid foolish controversies, genealogies, arguments, and quarrels about the law because these things are pointless and worthless.” (Berean translation, Titus 3:9) I think the answer will depend on people smarter than both of us put together. What do you think?
@drmichaelshea perfect! Couldn't have said it better myself. It's been a pleasure Dr. Michael
I would not be diappointed if there was beer in the afterlife. 😊
I would love to hop onto this and a few other podcasters without first listening to the ways by which listeners can add to their bank accounts via other revenue streams🙄
Then don’t listen. This is my livelihood. That’s how I can do it.
The Book of Joseph was given to Joseph smith in a vision. And the Book of Abraham was taken from the cave in Cumorah, not from any Papyrus that came with the mummies, and was return to the same cave.
Huh? No that is not accurate at all.
For all those curious, look into 16th Century Jesuit Priest Trischer.
The church has bought up his available writtings.
🐇🕳
So, are Satan and the devil two different individuals?
No
We were not willing to receive from Joseph, any more than Moses' people were willing to receive. Joseph tried in vain to prepare the people to meet the Savior, that was the fulness. Like the people of Moses, we chose the golden calf of Egypt doctrines, or call it wine of Babylon, rather than the fulness offered by Joseph. So now we sit in darkness as Isaiah witnessed of us, studying fallen Egypt and her gods and trying to equate them to us. We will get no more of the words of God until the times prophesied by Isaiah come to pass and a few are left to get the sealed portion and more. That is why Moroni wept for us and God told him to give us no more, what we had was sufficient to try us.
For example, Egypt worshipped the same 3 in one trinity of Babylon, as did every nation with different names. Nimrod, Semiramis and Tammuz in Babylon, or Osiris, Isis and Horus in Egypt, or Baal, Asherah and Molech of the Canaanites, or father son HG, or father son mary. Joseph Smith was quite clear that there are only two in the godhead and the Holy Ghost was not God. But we prefer like all Christianity the pagan viewpoint of Father Son and HG aligning with the tower of Babel. So we added a D&C section about the trinity and took away the doctrine of the D&C, which were the lectures on Faith, where Joseph clearly explained the godhead. As the Savior said "Ye worship ye know not what" For me I would take a wide detour around things Egyptian as they worshiped the god of this world.
Well, then why did Joseph Smith think that they were so important that he bought them with borrowed money and gave us the Pearl of Great Price? Where did Joseph say that the Holy Ghost is not part of the Godhead?
@@nancylowe2692 Great question. The Lectures on Faith were canonized scripture during Joseph's lifetime. The fifth lecture was on the godhead. These 7 lectures constituted the Doctrine of the D&C. They were the doctrine of the Doctrine and Covenants. Joseph Smith himself readied them for publication as scripture. They were removed from scripture in 1920 since the definition of the godhead did not agree with section 130 added after Joseph's murder. Brigham had that added as he liked the trinity. Here is what Brigham added "The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man’s; the Son also; but the Holy Ghost has not a body of flesh and bones, but is a personage of Spirit. Were it not so, the Holy Ghost could not dwell in us."
Yet here is the quote of the canonized scripture of Joseph. “There are two personages who constitute the great, matchless, governing and supreme power over all things-by whom all things were created and made, that are created and made, whether visible or invisible: whether in heaven, on earth, or in the earth, under the earth, or throughout the immensity of space-They are the Father and the Son: The Father being a personage of spirit, glory and power: possessing all perfection and fulness: The Son, who was in the bosom of the Father, a personage of tabernacle, made, or fashioned like unto man, or being in the form and likeness of man, or, rather, man was formed after his likeness, and in his image”
He clarified this in question 3.
Question 3: How many personages are there in the Godhead?
Two: the Father and the Son.
On your question of the mummies and papyri , yes he did buy them and his mother charged 25 cents for a viewing. Joseph did not publish the Pearl of Great Price. It was done by Franklin Richards in 1851. On the Book of Abraham, part was published in the times and seasons but Joseph did not authorize it nor was it scripture. It was never scripture during Joseph’s lifetime. Yet he worked on the 1844 D&C yet he never included the Book of Abraham though it was in the times and seasons. In my opinion it was not a translation from Joseph.
Thanks for your response. It's important to learn about the nature of the Godhead & to get it right. I have the Lectures on Faith left to me by my husband, but I didn't think they were that important. They are little pamphlet-like things. I'll get them out & read again.
If one decided to believe that the godhead did not include the Holy Ghost, would that be like denying the Holy Ghost? Maybe Brigham thought this or received further witness from the Lord to include the Holy Ghost in the godhead so that the Saints would not marginalize or minimize Him. (?)
I don't want to get too personal & answer if you want to, but are you an active member of the Church?
If you feel that studying Egyptian Temple rites, etc is going down the wrong path, then what about the Temple?
As important as yhe question on the Holy Ghost is, even moreso, I think, is the conclusion by Joseph Smith that God, the Father is a personage of spirit only?!? We are taught that He has a body of flesh & bone but no blood.
Sorry to bug you. I'll read for myself.
@@nancylowe2692 I think that is a personal journey for you, I am glad your husband left you that. That was part of our scripture. It was removed after Joseph and the opposite D&C added. The same happened with polygamy. In the 1835 and 1844 D&C there was a section 101 on monogamy only in the church. After Joseph was out of the way that was removed and 132 added in 1872. These are very confusing matters but getting to the truth is all that matters at least to me. Yes I worked in the temple for over 10 years. In leadership all my life since I joined as a young man. Now I am on a lonely but spirit filled journey to get back to the real truth of Joseph Smith and the Savior. There is no covenant path for me. Yes Joseph said the Father was spirit and the Son tabernacled. Good luck on your journey but keep to the Book of Mormon, the Savior and Joseph and you will be just fine. The first commandment is to have no man, no man between you and the Savior. Joseph said if we followed him and did not go to God we would be in darkness.
Merriam Webster
papyrus
noun
pa·py·rus pə-ˈpī-rəs .
It is pronounced with a long y sound, as in my. So pah PIE russ.
Hey guys! Wonderful intro so grabbing! I am heavy interested in it. Regardless i will tell you that the message i took all i have by minute 3 and 5, was was so covered and soaked in the mode of monotone speech, ‘umm’s, indecisive language/ circular thought, const. Pauses mid sentences… i just i can’t guys…. The sound from whosever mic in the back ground just fades in to the back ground. I can’t focus on this not can bring myself to focus on it.. you lost me. And i am at least a man interesting thin this subj. (8/10 minimum). Advise on how you can improve quality and clarity to convey your great message, in an attention market. And attention is ‘a’ key to the ‘returning customer’. I’d value that if successful business do, and vie satisfaction with future customers(money). Put into perspe.
Can you make me and many others happy and pronounce papyrus correctly? Puh-pai-ruhss
So Messiah Ben Judah means Messiah son of Judah which obviously is Jesus Christ who was born in the lineage of Judah. Messiah ben Joseph is the son of Joseph. Who is that referring to?
I think Bruce means Joseph Smith.
This could have been half the length of this video
Walter Veith does fabulous presentations his videos are just littered with pictures of his research work. Every point he makes he's got a picture or quote written to present his argument or belief. It's a shame that the same isn't done with this topic. Seems like a lot of talk without presenting very much.
Thanks. Not a lot to present. That's the point.
@@CwicShow thanks for the reply. I know there's not allot of physical evidence, but maybe some references to what he's saying. He's got stories but where's the reference to where he actually got the info?
@@holyroller4391 he was hired by the church to do the research. He’s actually seen the fragments and read the journals and the notes from the First Presidency.
Was Joseph Smith the prophet of the restoration? Yes, he absolutely was. Read his writings and revelations. Is the book of Mormon the word of God? It is the word of God, a second witness of Jesus Christ - Joseph was a God's prophet.
Interpret may be a better word than translate. No ancient language would translate directly into English.
I ll take the gospel on Golgotha instead of anything in Egyptian&non biblical canonical language&grammar.
Where was Golgotha?Outside Jerusalem,where the God Man Jesus(without a grandfather)let his blood spill&ooze out for you&me.
When He said "it is finished"!,what was?
Resurrectional freedom to arise?
Not really...2Corinthians5:21"God was in Christ reconciling the world unto Him"...that equals legal substitution,salvation that cannot be earned in temples or doing missions,not drinking coffee...trusting Him for it all so you can never boast in heaven,the only degree of glory,"hey,I did this,&that,&married her there"...sorry," all the handwriting&ordinances against us were nailed to His cross",Colossians 2:14.
Even Alma tells us,"there is nothing you can do after this life to prepare for eternity"34:33
So forget Egypt,look to the hill far more important that what a schyster sold to Joseph in Kirtland in 1835....get biblical&stay away from Egypt...after all Jeremiah warned anyone fleeing there would die,including anyone named Lehi.
What Jesus did was really enough/not Joseph!
This is long and ignorant. You do not know our beliefs nor that we worship God and n no one else. Waste.
My lineage is through Joseph,patriarchs say that it’s the tribe of Ephraim I think otherwise.
Ephraim is on of two sons of Joseph. The other is Manasseh.
Mine was specificallyJospeh as well with a lot of other people that I know in my youth. No mention of Manassa or Ephraim. ???
@@adambutler4237 That's interesting and good to know.
Yes trying to find answers for 17 years. I found this interesting. I find more information outside of LDS CANNON.
The Book of Mormon stats that that there descend for Joseph. Oddly enough I am not native to the north America.
None of this has anything to do with Mormonism, it’s just Egyptian lore. We are missing the mark here.
It’s church history. It’s also the history of the gospel which includes Joseph of Egypt. It’s also about the restoration and new scripture and light to given for the temple. You have an odd perspective on this in my opinion.
@@CwicShow Yes, we know that Joseph was in Egypt and the Israelites were there for many years but this does not somehow make the pagan worship and polytheism of the Egyptians part of our own doctrine. I respect what you are trying to do here and also the sincerity and scholarship of Brother Bruce Porter but I really don't see any connection between all of this papyri and the supposed Book of Joseph. Hugh Nibley pretty much cleared it all up with his book, "Message of the Joseph Smith Papyri, 2005". He concretely showed that the papyri are not the source of the Book of Abraham but he did show that they were interesting documents that could still have some spiritual and historical significance.
Looking much beyond what has been revealed and what is canon is a slippery slope. Speculation is really only that, speculation. Until the Lord reveals further light and knowledge through his anointed leaders (ie. the prophet and twelve) we are only left with what the Church provides us as canon. Translating these other papyri from Egyptian is not wrong in my opinion but trying to somehow tie them in our doctrine or make them into something they are not is pushing into shaky territory. I would caution against that, it will lead to apostasy and also lead others away from the truths of the gospel and the Iron Rod.
The Hebrew word for Messiah is mashiach, meaning “anointed one”. Mashiach is translated into the Greek word christos, and then into the English word Christ. Saul, David, Solomon and five others were spoken of as a “mashiach”. The term identifies a specially “anointed” servant of Jehovah. So Messiah ben Joseph was not the only other Messiah.
Jesus, like all other anointed ones, was anointed a servant by Jehovah. Jesus quotes Isaiah 61: “"The Spirit of the Lord ( יהוה ) God is upon me; because the LORD ( יהוה ) hath anointed me [Jesus] to preach good tidings unto the meek...” (Luke 4:18) Clearly, Jesus is not Jehovah anointing himself.
You are misleading the saints with this speculative stuff, what does the Church have to say on this matter?
What? What part is misleading?
@@CwicShow I"m not against doctrine or teachings that support the Church or apologetics in general. However, I feel like too many of you media/content creators take things a bit too far (ie. Rod Meldrum, Jacob Hansen). It's fine to have your own opinions and all but pushing these offshoot branches or flavors of Mormonism is a little bit questionable in my opinion. I actually really like Meldrum and his enthusiasm but he tries to preach his heartland theory likes it's gospel but it is not, and probably never will be. Until the Church leadership comes out and makes a clear statement on the matter it is probably best to just leave it alone. It needs to come through the correct channels.
@@medeekdesign We all have our own opinions. Mine is how wonderful it is that we can offer information to people from experts that they normally would not have access to without technology. This isn't an "offshoot." It is Church History. And you know what, maybe your flavor is different than mine.
But you will not find another independent online source that offers more faithful and sustaining content than this channel.
@@medeekdesign 1980's church mentality at it again. Cwic is doing a wonderful job at showing sources outside of Come, Follow Me and other conservative (read: safe or CES written) sources from the Church. If Cwic and others weren't doing this, the only shift within the Church body would be from progressive members pushing for prayers to Heavenly Mother. How does more information from other cultures and religions, especially ancient texts that are contemporary to actual Biblical events, mislead saints? It informs. Joseph Smith and the saints in Kirtland were told numerous times to read from good books and learn as much as they can. As far as I can tell, Article of Faith 13 and Section 109 are still in effect, that we should learn and grow as much as we can and seek learning from good sources. If the Church was the only source of good books we'd be out of material quickly and an echo chamber.
Joseph Smith has the integrity of L Ron Hubbard.
You may have the brains of Elmer Fudd.