ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 มี.ค. 2020
- Series 12, Episode 10 of Doctor Who has completely ruined the show. That may seem hyperbolic, but I’m dead serious. The sheer number of plot holes, plot contrivances, and, as I’m dubbing them, “theme holes,” is astronomic. The timeless child is the absolute worst addition to the Doctor Who canon since his human mother from the TV movie, which this new episode actually debunks, funnily enough.
So I’m going to go over some of the biggest issues - to show how glaringly awful of an impact this “plot twist” has had on the 57-year history of our beloved sci-fi program.
And if I may be exceedingly honest with you - this one hurt. It really hurt. It's one thing for Doctor Who to be bad in the present, you can just turn it off until a different showrunner comes along. But this was different - Chris Chibnall retroactively made every previous episode of Doctor Who weaker, less thematically rich, less interesting. And I'm having a hard time dealing with that. It feels like something special was taken from me.
Anyway, thanks for watching my video: "The Timeless Children" Ruined Doctor Who.
Stay Frosty.
#DrWho #TV #TimelessChild - บันเทิง
Do you agree that Chibnall has ruined Doctor Who? Would you like to pretend it never happened? If so, check out my #New13 project, which completely re-writes series 11 with a new Doctor, companion, and story! -> th-cam.com/video/I-uYRGXSd48/w-d-xo.html&ab_channel=B-WHERE
Dr Who ended for me on December 25th 2017 with Twice Upon A Time special. Steven Moffat just was brilliant with the last episode he made. Just look at it. It was the final hurrah for the RTD era along with Moffat, both men treated Dr Who well. Do you agree with me?
The "Ruth" doctor has been suggested to fit in between Patrick Troughton's 2nd doctor and Jon Pertwee's 3rd doctor. We never saw the 2nd doctor fully regenerate, all we see of the final outcome is the 3rd doctor fall out of the TARDIS door. They suggest this is where the gap happened. 2nd doctor temporarily regenerated into Ruth, but after becoming her, he had to use the Chamelon arch to transform into a human to hide from an enemy. Ruth got her time lord mind back and her TARDIS, and met the 13th doctor. After saying farewell she regenerates properly into 3rd doctor, as the regeneration was not fully completed and does not count. Regeneration completion takes a while, remember the 11th doctor when he first met Amy Pond said he was "still cooking". This means the numbers are fine, however what about her memory of being Ruth. Because it was not a proper regeneration, this short term 2.1 doctor does not remain in her memory. What do you think? This explains her TARDIS.
@@johnking5174 yea twice upon a time is really good
I think that the only way to kill a crappy retcon is to use a crappy retcon. Here's my pitch:
When the Doctor fell from her TARDIS after regenerating, it and her had fallen into a parallel dimension.
All of her subsequent adventures were in that universe.
The TARDIS she found belonged to a later incarnation of Doctor Ruth. The Master, Gallefrey, all of it of that universe.
The new series could be all about her trying to find a way back. To discover a spark of her universe to return.
Also, she dies in the effort and transforms into Doctor Ruth who was a better Doctor in 5 minutes than she's been during her entire run.
@@marcuswalters8093 So are you saying that in her first scene at the end of Twice Upon A Time, the 13th doctor falls out of the TARDIS when it explodes, but for some reason she falls to a different universe earth? However, if this is the case, she has a TARDIS, which she rebuilds and goes on many adventures in, meaning she would have known this was a different universe. She is not stupid.
I don’t know what this guy is talking about, doctor who doesn’t have a “season 11” or “season 12” I’m pretty sure it ended at 10
lol- I like to think the same way- which is why I continued it myself with my own fanmade series 11! Episode 3 premieres tomorrow! -> th-cam.com/video/I-uYRGXSd48/w-d-xo.html&ab_channel=B-WHERE
Yep, agreed. Doctor Who finished with The Last Crusade, and that's the end of it.
@@lapelcelery42 THE END IS THE BEGINNING IS THE END
Well, I stopped watching the show,
after something with The Tenth and Eleventh Doctor,
but I blame Netflix, for that, cuz I couldn’t find it anymore.
i dont recognise chris chibnalls seasons at all only up to the last peter capaldi season
"The Timeless Children is an episode where The Master takes The Doctor to Gallifrey in order to show her a PowerPoint presentation that ends with a slide saying "You were adopted"." - Jay Exci.
HAHAHAHA oh god this is the best way to summarize that episode
Sums up the episode perfectly
I love this summary.
love that guy lol
I think that’s just mood
The Curator: "The full name of the painting is Gallifrey falls no more."
Chinball: "No, the name of the painting is now No Gallifrey falls more!"
Lmao 🤣
Wouldn't it be "No more. Gallifrey falls!"
No Gallifrey! More falls!
I actually thought of that after watching the 50th... xD ... still, seeing this made me laugh.. i needed this
It would be the funniest thing if season 14 starts with Peter capaldi just waking up and being like "what a weird dream" and instantly regenerating into Ncuti Gatwa, it would be the best way to spit in Chibnall's face. It would never happen, but I think that it would be the perfect middle finger to the past couple years of his life.
As much as that would be funny it would also be a big f you to all the actors and crew
@@elcolto2320 sacrifices have to be made.
12th Doctor: I just had the worst dream I was a self-important bint with terrible dress sense.
@@elcolto2320 Jodie Whittaker, at least, deserves it.
😂😂😂
It would make a little more sense if the Timeless Child were the Master. Him being mad because of what the Timelords did to him, so he burned Gallifrey to the ground and turn everyone into his puppets.
Almost seems like that was the idea the writer team came up with and Chibby just went "good idea, but hear me out... what if the Doctor was the Timeless Child instead? That way we can make the Doctor originally female!"
What gets me is just how predictable this was. Everyone's first reaction to the Ruth Doctor was that it could be Pre-Hartnell. Everyones first thought was that the Doctor was the Timeless Child because its always the Doctor. What's in the Pandorica, The Doctor, What's the oldest question in the universe, The Doctor, Who is the Hybrid, The Doctor and Clara, Who is the Timeless Child, Oh big surprise ITS THE FUCKING DOCTOR!
Ithu Halinqua pc culture at its best
Cameron Caws what would have been great and a little self aware is for the doctor to have assumed so and be proven wrong. But that would require the barest modicum of effort
@@AllenGray47 I wrote a fanmade series where the finale was setting up a Dalek reveal and the Doctor also assumed it was them and then suddenly, Boom Sycorax. Great subversion on the typical RTD trope.
Seriously though, this show needs to start subverting its cliches, RTD had Dalek finales, Moffat had mysteries which were always answered with the Doctor, Chibnall so far has done a finale that didn;t even feel like a finale and another mystery box that turns out to be the Doctor.
Doctor Who: *Exists*
Chibnall: I'm about to end this show's whole career.
lol
Da
I think you are giving Chibnall too much credit by thinking this was his intention all along. He is no mastermind, just incompetent.
@@MINKIN2 no but I am a mastermind and can explain all of this even the healing thing and the lasers thing 1.the doctor only regenerates rivers hand because Amy read it in a book and didn't want the future to happen and davros was dying and he only intended to heal davros's eyes 2.the lasers are hard to use and painful very hard and painful to use may I continue
A wizard did it.
I've heard people say "oh this was a good episode"
No its not. Its a nightmare for the fans because it completely destroys the hole point of the show and completely ruins its lore. The only way they can save the show now to reckon this arc.
*ret-con
Why do you hang out with stupid people?
Actually you just don't understand. Get smarter. Win the prize.
Just like Apocalypse, for AHS
or the last season,
of Game of Thrones,
sorry for reminding anyone, of either, of those things.
Your opinion
when you said Hartnell kept playing the doctor despite his health just to make kids happy, that just broke me and now I hate Chibnal's writing even more
This comment actually made me sad. If he was still alive, he would cry 😔
@@peterandrew270580 It was so cute listening to Hartnell about how he saw the show. How he would, in his head, label parts of the TARDIS controls so he could explain to kids visiting the studio what everything did.
William Hartnell loved playing the Doctor and it's disrespectful that in the new canon he no longer carries the distinction of the First Doctor.
Rewatching this vid and --gosh, it still gets me. I can feel my heart break. The disrespect to William Hartnell really, truly hurts.
That was a very wholesome thing i didn't know about
Capaldis Doctor began to regenerate and that's where Canon stops for me.
agreed
"doctor, i let you go" are the official last words in canon for me, all the Jodie era is not canon
That's not how canon works.
Oh my, I forgot those were his last words. They mean so much more in hindsight.
I hope they either cancel it and just restart from that point because this is bullshit. I've been an avid DW fan for half of my entire life, and this is such a big spit in the face. Chibnall has only solidified how terrible of a writer he is, and I absolutely despise him. I hope BBC realise what a huge mistake they've done and sack him.
Honestly, I'm just gonna pretend that nothing after peter capaldi is canon. I'd like to think that he chose not to regenerate and to die properly. Seriously, I'd rather the doctor have died at the end of season 10 then have all of this be canon.
in my head canon 13th hasnt happened, hes either still on the black hole ship being tortured by the master, or is in his TARDIS having a psychotic break considering how hard he fought his regeneration.
We're supposed to believe that Tom Baker's Doctor regenerated after falling off a radio telescope dish, but 13 wasn't phased by falling from outer space.
Fyrestar yea that’s what I do
Dr. Who the show died at the end of season 10. That's when I stopped watching.
In my head canon, Twelve is having some type of bad trip as a result of keeping back his regeneration for so long. Series 11 and 12 are in his head.
The Doctor was a role model for me growing up because he showed me that you don't have to be special to make a difference. All it takes is kindness and caring and some intelligence as well.
Thanks, Chibnall
Not anymore now you need to be space Jesus to actually make a difference
Another plot-hole: "The Doctor" is the name that he chose as a part of a promise to never be cruel or cowardly. The Doctor remembers making this promise so that means it couldn't happen during any of his "pre-Hartnell" incarnations (because he wouldn't remember it) therefore Ruth can't call herself the Doctor because she hasn't made the promise yet.
(Hope it makes sense, English isn't my first language)
And to be honest Ruth isn't the Doctor's incarnation for me.
Your english is amazing don't worry!! I thought you were a fluent native speaker
But yes good point :0
@@apricoticpeaches Thank you so much :D
given they made the 50th special worthless, tbh all they need to do was i dont know have another timelord take the doctors name,
Ruth could be a future regeneration, or have they proven she was an earlier regeneration. If so, please tell me.
I hadn't even thought of that 🤯
Mate you've put more thought and effort into these 22 minutes than chibby has put into his run on the show.
I mean this with all sincerity: I'm honestly considering rewriting the story of the 13th doctor myself and making videos out of it. I'm just a nobody and I'm sure I could do a better job than Chibnall.
@@BWHERE I am sure of it
@@BWHERE Couldn't anyone?
@@vialived *almost anyone. I wouldn't trust a Rian Johnson or an Alex Kurtzman.
@@BWHERE I think the only way they can fix Doctor Who now is if they make Series 11 and 12 it's own sort of sub-show. They can call it "The Timless Child" instead of making it canon to the actual show. Then we can just scrap all of it and go back to Capaldi's regeneration. Get a new show runner, a new actor that actually knows how to act like the Doctor, and a new script that doesn't create plot holes. I'm fine with the doctor being female, just make her feel like an actual doctor this time. Jodie seems clueless and bland when she acts, and I just can't take it. The worst thing is how much I cringe once she "tries" to be like Tennant.
In my opinion, the doctor is supposed to be this misterious alien-like character that acts like he doesn't know what's going on, but reveals that he had everything under control all along. Jodie acts like she doesn't know what's going on, only to unconver twoards the end of each episode that she actually didn't know what was going on. She never had a plan. She doesn't outsmart anyone, she doesn't take proper charge. This is just my opinion.
this just erases Moffat's entire story arc
Especially Missy
RIP Missy’s character arc T_T
That's why Chibnall era is not canon
Another theme hole: The Doctor's entire character arc in the very first season of the show in 1963/64 was learning to appreciate life, humanity, kindness and bravery. He learns this by becoming friends with Ian and Barbara. Two of the most brave, keen-witted, and moral humans in the entire show. He hated and dismissed them at first, but quickly realized they were amazing. He thought they were stupid primitives who couldn't comprehend anything worth comprehending, but he was wrong. And upon realizing he was wrong, he re-evaluated the rest of humanity as well. And all sentient life. When he first met Ian and Barbara, he was cold, callous, cowardly and bigoted against humans (and probably most other non-Gallifreyan life). But, his friendship with Ian and Barbara changed all that. The Doctor is almost always a character who is at the end of the day kind, and at the end of the day principled. But according to the very first season of the show, he wasn't born that way. He learned it. He was taught it by his first human companions.
The Timeless Children essentially chucks all of this in the bin. Either The Doctor never learned to be kind until he was a million years old (asshole). Or he learned to be kind, but then forgot when he had his memory wiped (unsatisfying and contrived). Either way, it completely neuters the significance of the shows origins.
its entirely possible that hartnells doctor was the final one to be experimented on which would explain part of why he ran away and why he was so bitter. thats the thing with infinite doctors, literally any option is a possibility now and that kind of width isnt always good for a story
COUGH COUGH
then you must hate the reboot lmao
@@gay4sswhovian What reboot? Do you mean the revival show in general?
Well it can't be real cause the doctor become a female way before Jodi Whitaker rengersrtin maybe she just had the memory planted into her by Matt Smith trchinly
@@koalafromtomorrow5656 Yes, that's why it's a theme hole.
I think this whole Timeless Child thing also makes a mockery of The Five Doctors on several fronts. In particular, the notion 'that immortality is a curse, not a blessing' & the antithesis of everything the Doctor stood for. Now that he/she is effectively immortal & supposedly proud of it completely goes against the ethos of the show.
Also Ruth’s “Doctor” goes by the name Doctor before Hartnell. How the heck does that happen. So she traveled the universe going by the name Doctor and has a police box Tardis, gets her mind wiped and then coincidentally also takes up the name Doctor and has a police box Tardis. Seriously Chibnall
It can not be Hartnell's box. We saw Hartnell pick a box guided by Clara to the Tardis we know.
Ruth's Tardis would be another type 40 with coincidentally a police box chameleon circuit setting.
Dan Williams Exactly coincidently. It’s all a big coincidence that Hartnells Tardis gets stuck with a police box Tardis. And coincidentally also up the name of Doctor
Is Ruth before Hartnell? There has long been fan conjecture of the Doctor working for the celestial intervention agency post war games but pre Pertwee, she could fit there. Or she was the doctor, had her mind wiped and steals, unknown to him, his old tardis.
James Booth The only place I see her fitting in is between 2 and 3 but every other person I’ve talked to hates that idea. Idk why but I think it’s sloppy writing just to plop her in before Hartnell just so Chibnall feels proud of himself
@@jamesbooth8067 So the conjecture is that the Doctor was regenerated into another form, as punishment for traveling around and interfering in the affairs of other races, and forced to travel around and interfere in the affairs of other races, and THEN forcefully regenerated again, with a mindwipe, and dumped on Earth, where he has to work off the sentence given at the end of War Games despite having already done that?
I also just realized something else
Since the Doctor had a grand daughter named Susan it means that he had Kids. So since the Doctors kids and grand daughter are directly related to him then how come they don’t have the ability to regenerate ? Because clearly the Doctor has unlimited regenerations and it seems like a natural genetic ability to him. So shouldn’t they have it too ?
Uhhhh his marriage and children were faked by the Time Lords. The marriage officiate was Tecteun in a fake mustache. Phew... Plot hole patched!
B-WHERE oh good.But too bad you can’t patch all the other plot holes that Chris Chibnall has created
Nobody No-One there isn’t enough concrete in the universe .
Nobody No-One and if there were enough concrete in the universe I’d rather be using it to cast some boots for Chibnall.
Susan might have the ability to regenerate ignoring Chibnall's made up stuff, the time lords get regenerations through the untempered schism/time vortex as children so Susan could have already gotten regenerations in the actual canon of the previous eras of the show, sure not all gallifreyans became timelords but surely since Susan is in the doctor's family she would of got into the academy which would of got her regenerations unless her parents or the doctor didn't allow it because he knew about the dangers of the untempered schism and thought living through multiple lifes and having multiple deaths was horrific for anyone to bare so didn't allow his children and grand children to go through with it
I always saw (and treated) the "I'm half-human, on my mother's side" line as just the Doctor joking around... And even if it were canon, I thought it would explain why the Doctor likes to hang around on Earth so much.
me to, I see people take the part human thing so seriously and I'm like "it was most likely a joke" in fact the way to retcon it if you like is to just take it as a joke
in Battlefield it is revealed that the Soctor is Merlin. According to legend, Merlin was half human on his mother;s side.
Actually, the 8th Doctor admitted to having said that as a lie to his companion Charlotte (Charlie) Pollard in one of the Big Finish audio dramas - which are all cannon except the “Unbound” series
Rule 1: The Doctor lies. ;-)
It needs a Dallas style “it was all a dream” re-start for the 13th doctor
.
My thoughts exactly my friend
I want capaldi and murray gold back tbh
@@mrgerund3060 yes please, Capaldi was great
The good old "it was all a dream" reset button fallback when companies screw the pooch and piss off their fanbases. 😂 About as cliché as the Chosen One theme. It's like they don't know what they're doing or something.
@@calumwhite5046 wonder if Toby Jones would still be the dream lord? Or would a different actor would take the role, with the dream lord “regenerating” with each doctor?
I could mind all the plot holes and plot contrivences, but for me, it really bothers me that the Doctor is now this super awesome, amazing most important character in the entire universe. The doctor is definitely known throughout the universe as this mystical being, but that's only because of his actions, not because of his origins, he just started off as a bloke in a box.
Yeah, it really undermines all of his achievements.
You say now. But hasn't this been the score since McCoy, that there's been a mythology to the Doctor. TTC actually raises the point you're making rather effectively though - maybe the Master is telling the truth and the Doctor's past was a lie, or maybe someone has manipulated the Matrix... but either way, as long as the Doctor is doing what the Doctor does - then does it matter either way?
@@JayDragonarcProductions No it doesn't matter, that's what makes it stupid. It changes so much history and lore and gives rise to plot holes, changes who the doctor is and why they do what they do and yet it does absolutely nothing for the character going forward.
@@JayDragonarcProductions With McCoy the show was cancelled in time. They were too late this time.
The Doctor also, as B-WHERE argues in their most recent video, fulfils the prophecies of an ancient Gallifreyan legend. Feels weird to me to argue that this makes The Doctor too special, but not say anything similar in that video
It would've made more sense if the MASTER was the Timeless Child and he destroyed Gallifrey out of anger of his limitless lives being stolen by the time lords
That would also explain why the master is crazy and it would set up a plot point of the doctor having a madman inside of him. This could of been good
@@Dannydarko27 exactly, just write it saying the amount of lives taken from the master and the experiments drove him to insanity
But destroying galifrey ruins the 50th anniversary so it woukd never work regardless
The idea of following a wacky rejected from a society of demigods that decided to be different is much more interesting than following just a god
Exactly, the Doctor chose to be different not born different, what a bunch of bollocks!
The thing is though that this reveal doesn't actually change much. The Doctor is *still* a wacky reject from a society of demigods. She's now just an *adopted* reject from a society of demigods who doesn't know who her original parents are. She's not now a god in any way that she wasn't already. She chose to be different and reject Gallifreyan society. That had nothing to do with what she is, and everything to do with *who* she is (pun intended. :P).
This reveal makes her a bit more integral to the formation of Gallifrey than I'd personally like but that's in the distant past and it doesn't change who she is now, so whatever.
On the up side of this reveal, it opens up story possibilities. We now get to have a story arc of the Doctor trying to discover who her original people, the Timeless Children are. And we get to deal with the repercussions of the Doctor's previously-unknown adventures working with the Division.
Overall this reveal isn't intrinsically a bad thing, and I have much more concern about Chibnall's ability to execute the resulting stories well than I do about it being a bad idea in the first place.
@@irrevenant8724 The reveal is still not true to the story. It breaks to much to be accepted.
@@crazykokebroz I've done a fair bit of thinking about this reveal and as far as I can see it doesn't actually break anything. The only outstanding question I have at this point is why Ruth's TARDIS looks like a Police Box. I have a couple of theories about that and expect that we'll have the answer by the end of S13. (The Timeless Children reveal was clearly setup for the S13 arc which I assume will be about the Doctor dealing with the reveal, The Division, the mysterious Timeless Children and/or Ruth).
Is there a particular thing you see the reveal as breaking? I may have an answer for it.
@@irrevenant8724 It breaks tons, actually. I hope they pretend none of seasons 11-12 ever happened and go back to saying the Doctor is a time lord.
The whole "timeless child" - plot sounds like a cringy self-insert timelord oc I would've created in elementary...
In short, by making The Doctor so so so much special, he's no longer special at all.
That just sums up this pure bilgetripe that hasn't only affected Doctor Who, but countless other shows and franchises - one giant crab bucket.
I think its better than just ennemies who run away in mention of his name
Absolutely
This reveal isn't about making the Doctor special - it very carefully made the Doctor no more powerful or influential than before. It's about giving the Doctor an extended history that can be the source of new story-driving characters, events and consequences.
@@irrevenant8724 By completely contradicting literally everything that had come before?
@@maxxor-overworldhero6730 Do you have specific examples? As far as I can see everything in this reveal extends canon rather than contradicting it.
(Unless you count the Doctor not actually being a Time Lord, but we only ever had hearsay to go on for that anyway. That's not breaking canon any more than something like "You know how we always said that Bob was your father? Well..." would break canon.)
"Doctor... I let you go"
And this is where canon DW stops for me. I'm done with this show until it get's a retcon.
Why scrub out Whittaker's first 20 episodes? Just ignore this shit and move on.
@@Althalus2010 Firstly who said anything about scrubbing it out? A retcon doesn't necessarily mean doing away with a certain percentage. They could have it to where The Master was using some sort of trickery to fool The Doctor.
And secondly would scrubbing out those episodes really be a bad thing? Imagine if they did something unprecedented and just redid those seasons. They could even keep Jodie Whittaker. Just throw Chris Chibnall out on his ass and hire a writer who's capable of creating interesting and consistent characters as well as captivating stories.
@@Brandon_Powell okay fair enough, I wouldn't really mind that as long as we keep our precious Scronch King, she's amazing.
@@Althalus2010 I know what you mean. Her character is inconsistent but that is a fault of the writers not the actress.
My headcanon is that 12 excepts life will always continue no matter who or what, and absorbs the regeneration energy, letting himself die
"I'm the Doctor. I am a timelord, from the planet gallifrey, in the constell-
Hang on.
I am the timeless child. I am who knows what, from who knows where, in who knows which dimension."
Almost like the title literally contained the word 'Who' for a reason... and that was the entire point before later writers started answering those questions... which really pissed off the original creators, incidentally.
@@somerandomguy2073 Doctor Who means that people are asking for his name, his real name, we all know where he came from, we just don't know his name
@@firmanchristiansianturi4794 That wasn't the original intention. That's the "new" interpretation because the original mystery of who this character is and what his background is was answered as early as the late 60s/early 70s. And, like I said before, Sydney Newman and Verity Lambert were PISSED that they revealed his back story after they had left the show.
@@somerandomguy2073 Then this is the original one? Bullshit
I'm Batman.
Can we just get Capaldi to come back and regenerate into another doctor in a future episode instead of 13 regenerating and just retcon chibby
I wish
I don't like milk.
@@jwfayer23 I hate pears
Imagine if in the Star Wars sequel films Disney revealed that Luke wasn’t the son of Anakin but was actually a guy named Luke Popidopolus. That’s basically the timeless child.
Yeh, but somehow they still managed to make Star Wars flocking horrible and destroyed Luke's character
@@sporebryan2000 I think Luke in the sequels is interesting and in character for Luke. This stuff in Dr Who just doesn't make sense, and is so much worse
@@danielsmith5318 Really? But not even mark hamill likes his character there, he even said luke is a different charcter for him in the sequels. He's hopeful and a truly beliver of the jedis. And a light saber is extremely precious, one does not simply throw it away. There's cool new star wars things - Mandalorian and somewhat the games
@@sporebryan2000 Well, I think all the Jedi do is fail in Star Wars, and I thought it was an interesting direction to take Luke. I think I preferred it to just spoonfeeding the audience with the super powerful Luke everyone expected. I don't think the execution was there, but it was interesting.
@@danielsmith5318 Yeah, I agree. It was an interesting direction to take Luke in and the problem was they didn't execute it well. It's entirely reasonable for Luke to have reached this point, but if you're going to show as beloved a character as this having changed this much you need to give us a better foundation for that than a few quick flashbacks. Worse, they were Rashamon-style flashbacks, meaning we don't know how accurate any of them were or weren't.
@Bryan Hamill initially disliked this direction for the character but changed his mind about it over time. And if a lightsaber is a symbol of the life you've deliberately renounced because it's associated with pain and failure? Throwing it away seems pretty reasonable.
6:20 - "None of them know about the Doctor's lives before Hartnell. Somehow, magically, this secret went undetected."
It gets worse when you realise the pre-Hartnell Doctors must outnumber the ones we've seen in the series, by _hundreds_ if not *_thousands_* to one.
And, as this video said, it makes Hartnell’s doctor unimportant. It wouldn’t have mattered if it was Hartnell’s Doctor now. Because now, the Doctor has existed since the beginning of the time lords themselves (a billion years worth of history) and now can shoot laser beams out of her hands like she’s Sheev Palpatine.
@@anonymystical4413 It doesn't get any more important then being the very first doctor on telly. Look at Star Was.. episode 1 doesn't change the fact the episode 4 was the first of it's kind
I remember a line from somewhere,
"one billion years of time lord history" which seriously gunks things up
Bro, you laid it all out so perfectly. I love how much the Timeless Child goes against EVERYTHING that the series has been building up to for the past 5 decades. Makes sense.
The Face of Boe told the Doctor “you are not alone” Well I guess the Face of Boe was wrong.
Remember when River gave up all her remaining regenerations to Eleven in Let's Kill Hitler to stop him from dying for real? Well that's utterly pointless now. She could've lived out a long life outside of the library with all of them available to her and been a recurring character, hell her entire death scene in the library is undermined now as maybe with regenerations left she might've lived. Even if she hadn't we now know that the Doctor certainly would've. While I know a lot of people aren't a big fan of what River was eventually revealed to be I think most people liked her first two episodes so this is a kick in the teeth.
River didn't have any regenerations left in the library. And she isn't a Timelord, so what she gave to the Doctor was really just Artron energy, which is the raw material of regeneration, and is collected through exposure to the time vortex.
@@MichaelJohnson-kq7qg If her remaining regeneration energy was enough to save The Doctor, then she would have been able to heal herself in the library.
Omg, Estelle, you're right! Ugh! I didn't think I could hate this any more than I already did, but now I do.
@Evil Darkness Having an unlimited amount of something does no good if you're unable to use it. I was under the impression that River's poison rendered him unable to regenerate and that River's sacrifice counteracted the poison.
@@InJeffable You're quite right there. Things can hinder, damage or destroy the regenerative process. Eight says as such to Grace that the operation almost destroyed it with him. River is a similar situation - lipstick specifically designed to attack the regeneration process as well as kill (I mean, the Kovarian chapter didn't know that was his 'last' life. They thought he still have two more in the tin.)
To fix this, they should reveal that Ruth is the master in disguise and the master was lying to to her about the timeless child.
They aren't smart enough to think of that. And even if they were.
Well the episode makes it clear that Ruth is a part of the Doctor. So unless the Master did something clever, I doubt that explanation could work.
Please hope that ruth is the master
I'd want her to be the Rani
Even though Moffat put his own "fan fiction" ideas into WHO, he at least tried make it work within established lore. Chibnall? No such effort.
Moffat respected the show's history. He knew that one of the charms of Doctor Who was the mystery of the Doctor's past so even with his own head cannons, he never tried to stomp on that. You could argue that adding another regeneration was a contradiction but it was a necessity because Christopher Ecclestone refused to return. It was clearly explained that the Doctor made conscious efforts to pretend that John Hurt's incarnation never existed, to the point where he mentally combined him with Ecclestone so that even the Atraxi couldn't detect him.
Most of the main writers were unknown fans during the Classic Who, so when they wrote the show, you could say that their episodes were fan fiction.
@@fadikhoory5350 I put "fan fiction" in quotes because that's what other people called Moffat's writing. Not me.
I loved Moffat's Who.
Possibly the most infuriating thing about the whole Timeless Child storyline is that it actually _could_ have been a pretty kickass twist - it just had to be literally _anyone_ other than the Doctor.
I love the idea that the Time Lord founders basically robbed their "divine power" from a higher being and covered it up with a convenient little creation myth. The whole thing with "Brendan" turning out to be a mundane analogy for the Child hidden within the Matrix was pretty rad. And if, hypothetically, the Master had turned out to be the Child instead, his outrage at the Time Lords would've still been justified _and_ it would've presented the Doctor with a new, insurmountable threat.
The whole arc had enormous potential, but it was all squandered in a single moment.
If I were to rewrite the Timeless Child arc, I would make it so that Rassilon, Omega and the Other discovered time travel and in their explorations discovered a race of angelic beings made of time energy called The Timeless. Everything that the Timeless touched, withers and dies so they do not interact with the universe. Rassilon, Omega and the Other offer salvation through their scientific genius to aid them in interacting with the universe that they long to explore but, in return The Timeless would offer the three eternal life through regeneration.
Rather than be civil and find a positive solution, the trio double crossed the Timeless by forcing their physical bodies to quantum-lock.
The trio stole one of the timeless children and experimented on them to learn all they could. They gained the ability to regenerate and built Time Lord society whilst the Timeless roam the universe looking for the missing child until they are observed which turns them into angelic stone statues that feed on time energy, a shadow of their former selves. The fate of the Timeless child is presently unknown.
Now that would have been ten thousand times better than what we got. It fits in the lore like a glove and it's overall quite interesting. But alas we got something else...
@@reapersoon8362 Thanks dude just don't take my soul yet, I only have two or three regenerations left!
@@Kiwii_Sports heh no worries, "soon" is not now after all is it ? You're off the hook for now, or should I say "off the scythe" :P
@@reapersoon8362 The Weeping Angels didn't seem like the type to have a species name or a home world to me. They seemed kinda divine with a sense of otherness to them.
@@Kiwii_Sports Same really, unlike all the other races and species seen before them they just all had this otherworldly side to them.
The fact that even the Doctor, a Timelord at that, knew next to nothing about them is a pretty good indicator of how they are above everything we've seen up to them.
Chibnall, or whoever takes over next: this is the ONE time to use the "it's all a dream" cliche - it wont feel great but I will take it over getting out of this pit of self destruction
Agreed
The solution I often see, is "Nah, the Master lied/the machine screwed up somehow. He's the Timeless Child."
Hell, it gives a reason to hate the timelords, and a reason for his megalomania: He's the source of their power.
It doesn't fix everything (Like River Song's power source), and we'd need to also explain away Ruth, but it's a start.
@@calemr I actually thought Ruth was another version of The Master when I first saw her. Only pretending to be The Doctor to fuck with her psyche in the long run. Could still be case, idk.
Possibly the dream crabs from Last Christmas
Make all of this crap the work of the Celestial Toymaker in the end... all of it his one of his mind games.
The Ruth Doctor comes from another timeline, another part of a multiverse. Something happened that temporarily allowed the universes to bleed into one another. That was resolved and Ruth returned to her own timeline. That created a new timeline for Jodie's Doctor to live out and we return to the main Doctor Who timeline and Capaldi's Doctor will regenerate into the proper 13th Doctor that we will see in November 2023 in the 60th Anniversary Special from RTD.
Ruth is a future incarnation.
And she lied.
As a Brit I’m furious at the way doctor who has been destroyed with my grandparents, parents, and me growing up watching the show ☹️ I’m 24 and if I ever have kids of my own I will only show them the episodes up until Twice upon a time skipping series 11 and 12
I really like it
DoctorSauce Series 11 was awful but series 12 was slightly better so hopefully next series will be good
@@rickygrimshaw1255 I thought series 11 was alright, but it did have some brilliant episodes. Series 12 was great though
This is all so easy to fix. Next season, have 13 be going around all like “oh who am I” and all that. Then, in the finale, have her be reckless because she has infinite regeneration energy, right?, and then when she actually has to regenerate, have the Master reveal: “lol I was fucking with you the whole thing was a lie to get you to throw away a regeneration,” reveal Ruth was in on it and just pretending, and have the next Doctor spawn in for the next season shaken and afraid, and this time REALLY one of the last of their kind.
This is actually a brilliant way to fix it. Say the master was just a big troll, he did it all to trick the doctor into completely destroying Gallifrey. But that still doesn't fix Gallifrey, how could they bring it back? Plus the BBC isn't smart enough to do that.
@@thatbowiefan6276 It's Joker level fuckery and I love it.
Reveal Ruth to be the Rani!!!
Love it. I hope it would be like that.
I’d love that so much and any other Doctor I’d feel bad for them but between the Master and the 13th Doctor I’m now routing for the master.
Yeah, the Timeless Child totally should have been Susan. She remains to this day one of the great mysteries of Doctor Who. It would have explained a reason for why the Doctor took her with him when he fled Gallifrey if she was a child who had been tortured for her powers for centuries. It also would have been a cool surprise for old fans to see a returning character in a new regeneration and a good surprise for new fans that the Doctor has an adoptive grand daughter.
The IDEA of the Timeless child isn't bad: that the Timelords tortured a helpless being for her powers and stole them, and then the Doctor needing to find their identity and help them in the next season. What breaks it is the Doctor himself/herself being the Timeless child as it wrecks the character and creates numerous plot holes.
Agreed, I always liked the (non-canon) Lungbarrow origin for Susan where she was the Other's Granddaughter and thought the Doctor was a reincarnation of him. They left Gallifrey together in the TARDIS with the Hand of Omega.
good one!
Todd Anderson I love the idea of Susan being the child but I’d take anything over the Doctor being it. I’m praying Chibnall has a big twist planned but we’ll see. Also why I dislike it is not because of the idea of the timeless child it’s the execution and it being the Doctor. For me the Doctor was a character who chose to be better and to help people. The Doctor doesn’t need to be special as they already are to those they helped over the series.
It’s also a bad message for kids as it basically says you can’t choose to be better, you have to be born with some god given right or power. Which is sad as now you can’t view the character as a role model as what makes them them is unattainable for anyone in real life.
With all the evidence you gave and from how Series 12 turned out, I have a feeling that Chris Chibnall isn’t a fan of Doctor Who and was picked just because Broadchurch was the most popular thing at the time. As frustrating as Steven Moffat was at times with the constantly changing quality of his writing and how he constantly brought back characters from the dead, at the very least he was passionate about the show and I got the feeling from interviews that he genuinely cares about the show. Chibnall? Nope. Now, I think he was the wrong choice to helm the show.
Jodie Whittaker also admitted in interviews that she was never a fan of Doctor Who and had absolutely no intention of learning anything about the previous incarnations or history of the show. I'm pretty sure she was only hired because she and Chibnall worked together on Broadchurch.
I feel so bad for Jodie, because she is a genuinely good actress and could have been great, but Chibnall just cannot write a script to save his life
Yes.
When Capaldi said "Doctor, I let you go." I felt hopeful. In hindsight, I think Moffat was aware that Chibnall was going to ruin the character (and show) and was letting us know that 13 can't be considered The Doctor and nothing after that line canon.
Thank God, a way out of living with the last 2 season's messes
Honestly, after this, I’m content if I never owned any more doctor who seasons after series 10. It was a nice ending.
Series 10 could have actually been a good ending to the show. While it had it's problems, and in places seemed like it cared more about promoting a political agenda than telling a fun and interesting story, it really gave what could have been a good conclusion.
The Doctor finds Gallifrey again. The Doctor turns The Master (Missy) into a good person. 12 spends so long trying to to regenerate, as he would regenerate into nothing (dies). 12 spends time with 1 before dying. Arguably a perfect way to wrap up the series...
Guys why do u hate 13th?(i know that timeless child does not feel right and makes no sense but every master piece can have flaws(idk if i pronounced "flaws right")).Btw i do like 13th but cause of some reason i hate 9th doctor idk why he did nothing wrong i just hate him.
@@strawhat-ya5076 you like one piece
When the time lords infused the Master's head with the drum beats, he was an innocent child. The Doctor was also the same age. So according to that bit, they spent their childhood together. Anyway.... this is all heartbreaking. The whole thing with Dr Who was that it was extremely relatable. A wise old man who refuses to act grown up and always challenges the status quo. It was a silly little safe place to go hide from your troubles. Dr Who helped me laugh, even if for a few min in a stressful time in my life. I'd go and hug Tennant, Smith and Baker just to let them know.
Andrew Cartmel himself was on a podcast not long ago debunking the defense that this is a version of his masterplan. The Cartmel Masterplan was to add mystery and foreboding, not exposition out an over the top backstory.
Link please?
Is there a link or video of Cartmel saying it on a Podcast?
th-cam.com/video/YyEj_AAgTdI/w-d-xo.html
“shoot deadly lasers from her hands”
chibnall: write that down!
I find it hilarious that there are actual people defending this garbage episode. Saying "it made sense", "it perfectly ties into Dr Who lore", "it made Dr Who interesting again". Anyone with half a brain would have realised how badly this episode ruined over 50 years of Dr Who.
Thats the point they havent got half a brain.
Eeh ?no it does not
@@2911721905 wonder which side ur on?
Anyone with half a brain can realize that this only destroys PRECONCEPTIONS and ASSUMPTIONS, NOT lore.
Except it did as
B-WHERE rightfully pointed out in this over 20 minute long video.
I expect the biggest of retcons coming when a new show runner finally takes over “yeah so the master was lying. He was able to manipulate the Matrix to show the Doctor what he wanted her to see and none of this is true.” Because unfortunately, the only true way to fix these massive plot holes is to eradicate the idea entirely. There is no “making it work” in this case.
And PLEASE just.. make this version of the Master pre-Missy because I really liked how they ended the Master’s story with Missy. Make this “destroyed gallifrey” another lie by the master, who somehow managed to escape his own fake world, only to regenerate into Missy. It bugged me all season that they never explained how he survived 12s finale.
I agree with you so much!
Yesss! I loved Missy and it was so annoying they never even mentioned how he/she survived. But you know, never mind that, how the hell did she became so maniac again? She had come a long way and now all that is gone in a flash. It's like Chibnall reset everything now and it's so stupidly, annoyingly, enormously bad. Just bad. It literally hurts.
Stevean2 likely, in an attempt to reassert his own will rather than listen to fans, you're right. 4 months ago, I was hoping that Chibnall would get canned and we would see a new show runner come in for the next season
There's an audio story where Missy became The Lumiat, basically a good Master, but Missy got bored and wemt back into being The Master
Yeah, The Master said that his laser screwdriver blast would kill Missy, no regeneration possible. So I liked the idea that The Master's last act was to help The Doctor
👏 timeless 👏child👏will👏never 👏be👏cannon👏
Can’t argue with that logic 👌👍
"Inter- dimensional Space Jesus." Best. Line. Ever. 😆😆😆
The Master talks to the Doctor saying he remembers him taking the Title "Doctor" because he wanted to help people. Yet Ruth has the title???. Also can I just say how much better it would be if the Master was the timeless child?. His rage towards galifrey would be justified as they used him. It would explain how he keeps coming back, it would give us a plot thread about The Doctor having part of the Master in her DNA and trying to cope with who she really is inside. It would make his title more grandiose as he really would be " The Master" of all of the timelords. He would realise he is special and different and that could be used as his leverage above The Doctor and why he really is evil and awful.
Plus the drums could have side effect from the expiraments, and his insanity the fault of the Time Lords, making their fall ironic
Sounds good to me
setto, I must say, that's a good point. The master as the timeless child.. hmm. I do like how Morbius photos make sense. you answer one canon, you destroy another. that's life with a 52 year old tv show.
@@PrincessX-ke8tj They explained the Drums in the End of Time, it was a signal to escape the time lock. The Timeless Child had nothing to do with it.
@@cameroncaws5959 I know, but I always thought that explanation was lame, but maybe the experiments just drove him batshit insane.
Before S12E10 there was very heavy emphasis on making a difference through action and determination. Be the change you want to see in the world. And he often had this effect on people he touched 'even for a second'.
Now, it all comes down to how you were born. You're born special or you're born useless. No point in trying to fight it. No point in making an effort. Gee, awesome message, BBC.
It's a very Lucas-esque "only the wise and specially blessed Jedi types (or their equally specially blessed Sith opposites) make any difference, and the rest of all sentient beings are just sheep to kowtow their betters" philosophical position. And it sucks.
I find it pretty funny that a lot of Franchises embrace extreme right Ideas like Race Purity and Eugenics while trying to become progressive
Right! "900 years of time and space and I've never met someone who wasn't important." Nevermind, only the doctor is important 😂
It makes no sense why they hired Chibnall. At the time he was announced as the next showrunner, he hadn't written an episode in four years(six when his first series came out). They could've hired Toby Whithouse who wrote some of the best and most beloved episodes of new who(School Reunion, The God Complex, A Town Called Mercy, Under the Lake/Before the Flood) or Jamie Mathieson who wrote for all of Capaldi's seasons and wrote some of the best episodes too(Mummy on the Orient Express, Flatline, Oxygen). The best episode Chibnall has written in Doctor Who is(in my opinion) The Power of Three which still has writing problems.
Remember the doctor said he wasn't even the brightest timelord he wasn't special he was just fed up and wanted to explore
Here's how to fix everything.
13th Doctor wakes up in a UNIT hospital. She's been in a coma for the last 2 years after falling out of the Tardis & crashing into the train. Her last 2 years of adventures have been because of the Dream Lord, that escaped with the Tardis during the explosion.
Brent Holifield YESSSSSSS!
Better still, 13th Doctor wakes up in a UNIT hospital and is imprisoned for life for bringing the whole series into disrepute, and for crimes against the acting profession.
That won't do. You can't neuter the Doctor and stay in line with the lore of the original story. When Dr. Who first aired men were men and women were women. What's next? A remake of Tarzan but Tarzan is a girl.
A possible Theme Hole: In "The Waters of Mars", the Doctor loses all control and decides that, from now on, he calls the shots on how things work. He'll decide who lives, who dies, and what happens based on his own perspectives and perceptions. He's Time Lord Victorious, and if you don't like it, tough. And this was treated as a horrifying idea, and when Ten sees what's happening to himself, he's deeply shaken. But, after "The Timeless Children", it seems the Doctor was intervening for the Time Lords for nobody knows how long. He was fiddling with history, altering it. He was basically Time Lord Victorious long ago. But, Thirteen says that really doesn't matter now. Now, she's OK with how she may have altered history on a colossal scale? Unless she's going to start putting everything back the way it was, and devote the rest of her existence to it, it trivializes Ten's horror. Or am I looking at this incorrectly?
I'd say you're looking at it incorrectly. The person that the Doctor was before AUC is not the Doctor, in a philosophical sense. If we can accept the distinction between the incarnations we all know as people and their actions, then we can do that with them.
Thus, 13 should not hold herself responsible for whatever actions were undertaken by 'the Doctor' during the Division service... If she finds out what any of that entailed then she can by all means try to fix it, but as it stands - she should continue to be the Doctor and help people as she always does rather than lamenting or theorising on the nature of her past.
Plus, if we're going to take Ten to task... we'd need to figure out a reasonable difference between him and Seven, master of manipulation for what he sees as the greater good. The closest I can get is that with Ten, it's not so much the fiddling with history but rather the motivation behind it.
'The Doctor' in the Division years would've been working under folk, with the impression that what was being done was right. Seven was under the impression that though his methods weren't quite right, that he was doing right.
Ten, on the other hand, knows from the get-go - knows from the very moment he discovers he's at Bowie Base One - that he shouldn't be there. Shouldn't be involved. And yet he does. He tries to work his way out of it... but at crunch time, he comes back and changes things - KNOWING FOR CERTAIN that it'll have ramifications on the web of time. When Brooke calls him out on it, he just brushes it off. He has no reason to it other than "I can." - whereas with Seven, when Ace called him out, he would explain why he needed to do what he did and he was sorry to have had to do it. (Fenric is probably the best example of the bunch for that?)
when i first watched this show it was about aliens messing up our history and the doctor was the only person that could help.
@@chazzgreen2471 There is a difference between Quantum Leapesque scenarios i.e. putting right what has gone wrong or is about to go wrong, and being a temporal dictator i.e. rewriting history because you feel entitled to do so and you know for certain that it'll have a negative impact.
@@JayDragonarcProductions I'd disagree that the actions of previous Doctors don't influence the actions of later ones. That may have been the case in the classic series, but not in NuWho. Remember, Nine all but reveled in how his previous self destroyed the Daleks ("I saw it happen! I MADE IT HAPPEN!"), then was deeply affected over what he did. The Doctor may treat his previous selves like pretenders or embarrassing relatives, but he clearly knows they are all him, and he still bears a responsibility for what they've done. Now that Thirteen knows what was happening way back when, she can't act all innocent about it. It was done, her predecessors did it, and now she has to fix it all. And, given the scale of what was apparently done, it has to be priority one. And the fact that the Doctor stopped working for the Division shows that he had an awareness of the wrongness of the matter and had some agency in what to do. If she doesn't repair the damage, then she's more self-centered than Ten was when he horrendously changed history over a tiff with Harriet Jones. ("The other guys did it. It wasn't me. So, it's somebody else's problem.") That completely goes against the Doctor's altruistic nature and need to maintain the correct flow of time. So, I think it's a Theme Hole and thoroughly alters the series for the worse. Or it was just an empty plot twist thrown in for shock value as a ratings grab and it'll be forgotten immediately, like that ridiculous Hybrid nonsense from a couple of seasons ago.
@@greenmonsterprod The Time War, I'd say, is the sole exception. Mostly because more than one Doctor had their part in that. Four effectively starts that, Seven makes it worse, Eight works his way through the chaos of it indirectly, and War ends it. Also, if we take the Ireland segment as much on face value as possible dialogue wise, the Timeless Child's end of association with the Division is instead because they retired and the Division took them away after the official farewell... to deliberately mindwipe them. Not because of a qualm with the actions being undertaken. (You could argue Ruth Doc but as I've said elsewhere, we don't have enough information yet to say she is before Hartnell. Yes, I know - the montage... but the Morbius faces aren't in order in that either.)
Also, encouraging separation from who they were before the First Doctor doesn't mean that I or Chibnall is saying to ignore whatever damage the Division caused. It certainly sounds like Chibnall wants to tackle that part of things further. - It's not "They did it, not me so not my problem." It's a "They did it, not me so I shouldn't hold myself responsible for it. And if I happen to come across any leads on them in the future, I should try and put things right.".
PS - I'll give the point on the Hybrid arc being rather bizarre... but even I must admit that strand has just been cleared up. A hybrid warrior race standing in the ruins of Gallifrey. Given that it was a Matrix prophecy that decreed that, it does have a workable angle.
Brilliant takedown, B-Where. You've got me thinking.....If the Doctor is the originator, all-powerful Jesus, why is he subservient to the Time Lords when they capture and judge him in The War Games, give him tasks to perform in the Pertwee era, even deny him his knowledge of time travel, and don't even RECOGNIZE HIM in Deadly Assassin!? This unthreading of the Chibnall disaster has infinite potential!
I really must commend you on not only your encyclopedic knowledge of something very near & dear to me since my rather long ago childhood, but I am especially impressed with the fact that you're the first person in decades I've heard use correct examples of what a plot hole is. Plot hole != unresolved plot points! You have restored my faith in humanity.
So nice of you, thanks.
One more thing that i just can't forgive is that this joke of an episode undermines the 10th doctor's sacrifice to save Wilfred and completely changes his/her behaviour.
Just think about it:
- The 10th doctor, a young, powerful being that could live for centuries and save countless of lives ("i could do so much more"), decides to sacrifice HIS LAST regeneration to save a frail old man that's begging him to let him die...why? Because the doctor saves people and that's what he is.
- Meanwhile miss female doctor wannabe, an immortal being with infinite time and infinite lives, can't find the strenght to sacrifice herself to destroy the ship and actually RUNS AWAY while a man (obviously) blow himself up with the ship.
Seriuously?! That's ridiculous...
The stupid thing was, this was just a repeat of the end of “The Poison Sky”, when another person switches places with the Doctor to go out with a kamikaze attack (that time against the Sontarans). The “Poison Sky” did it better, as did “Dark Water” with the Master reveal, “Utopia” with the Chameleon arch reveal, “Nightmare in Silver” with the new Cybermen reveal, and “Utopia” again with Jack’s return, and “The End of the World” and all of the Doctor’s guilt they did across the new series with Gallifrey’s destruction in the Time War. Series 12 is just a poor repeat of better episodes.
Hey remember when the 11th doctor was dying and his body didnt regenerate because he had no regenerations left? Yeah me neither. You know the timelords probably spliced the limit into the doctor at some point right?
That's what happens when they keep changing writers a lot
@@bt3743 did you really tried to defend this bullshit
@@firmanchristiansianturi4794 no i did though
The thought of Jodi walking around shooting regeneration laser beams out of her hands is so funny
lol
That would turn her into Captain Marvel...
Sooooo a marry sue?
Chibnall is destroying Doctor Who
Kurtzman is killing Star Trek
Kennedy is ruining Star Wars
Who let these people take over healthy Franchises. It’s sickening!
I know I'm very late to this video but in my own personal headcanon "Twice Upon a Time" ended with the 12th doctor deciding he'd had enough, and unlike in the show, not regenerating and opting to peacefully step out after everything he had endured, thus saving the universe one final time by not going on to become the 13th doctor lmao
You should send this to the BBC so they understands it's own shows history..Great job
Thanks!
Even better, put videos like this on a Sunday evening...
That won't work. Their response to criticism was basically just "your problem not ours, we already have your licence fee"
The BBC would say what they have always said. They have chosen to avoid giving Doctir Who a rigid canon, because they believed it limited storytelling and makes no sense in a show where one of the characters literally rewrites history.
@@MichaelJohnson-kq7qg there is a difference between a rigid cannon and blatantly saying "fuck you" to the core themes of the series.
David Campbell: "They dare to tamper with the forces of creation?"
The Doctor: "Yes, they dare! And we have got to dare to stop them."
@Owen Wildish I watched that episode recently, brilliant.
Or, in modern language:
FANS: Canon is important!
BBC: Fuck all that. The doctor has to be a woman from the very beginning before Hartnell, cos....you know....wokeness and all that shit.
Mentioning that it would make William hartnell cry, made me cry, and made me hate the 13th doctor more than I already do
It's a shame when 12 regenerated into 13 and she fell to earth she died on impact and regenerated again, thus preventing 2 (soon to be 3) of the crappiest seasons of the show from coming into existence.
God bless you, headcanon ❤️
I wish I knew what the HELL this man was thinking when he decided to write this into the show.
I think Chibnall wrote this concept as a piece of fanfiction back when the Brain of Morbius aired, and he never re-worked it to make sense considering all the canon and themes of the show.
You cannot rationalise a mad man’s ravings.
Why did you do that?
Funny
B-WHERE that’s what I think. Chibnall has been having wet-dreams since he first thought up his ‘genius idea’ and has had a hard-on for it ever since. Now the rest of us must suffer his sheer arrogant hubris.
He's like Ruin Johnson, he just wants to scribble his hideous, personal mark on this beloved show. It's like a bratty kid scribbling on a beautiful, priceless painting. All it means is "Chibnall was here!"
I've watched for just over fifty years. There have been many lore changes and backstories, some great, some abysmal, but none have broken the canon like this. It's not even interesting.
The BBC's claim that it's an origin story, and that's a staple of SciFi and so it's okay... No, Doctor Who is and has always been the exception to this rule. The show only works with the continuation of the mystery.
Thanks for the video.
It's didn't break canon. Pre-1st doctor has no canon because they didn't develop it. It;s good to see them add more mystery to the doctor again, the question 'who?' is more relevant now than it's been since the 7th. (who always hinted he was more than just an ordinary time lord) anyway, i like it.. but the story line hasn't finished.. if you think there's not anymore to this you'll be wrong and i suspect most of it will be reset like everything else we have seen since 2005.
@@MephProduction ...Thanks for a reasoned and respectful reply, though I will respectful disagree :-) Where's Rassilon, Omega, black holes, etc? They were all a lie; then why isn't this? Postmodern storytelling at its worst. Nothing matters, so, nothing matters. The Doctor is now effectively a god, so I've lost any interest in him as a character going forward. The personal growth from Hartnell onward is relegated to a footnote. The character has gone from a relatable nobody who rebelled and made a difference through his own will and effort to someone always destined for greatness when he found out about his specialness, i.e. generic as hell. Going forward, I wish you enjoyment with the new show, but it's no longer watchable for me.
@@BrettJones27 i dunno Where's Rassilon, Omega are. the story hasn't finished yet. The 7th Doctor talked briefly about the period before he ran away.. hinting he was more than an ordinary time lord, nothing wrong with being a 'god' he was always treated like that away, more so since 2005. I'm pretty sure there is a lot more too this story arch next season and it'll fill in the blanks and tie it all together. Plus to does tie into classic who with the time lords putting him in exile twice, the trial, forced regen, using him as an agent, and varies other stuff. I like it, but i need to see how it story pans out before i dismiss it. (nu who has a habit os using reset buttons so might be another 'fooled ya' moment)
@@MephProduction Yep... I get all that. But on top of finding the last two series the most boring and poorly written to date, barely managing to tell a coherent story as they rush to the obligatory end of episode moral lecture... as blasphemous as it may be, Jodie just doesn't engage me as the Doctor, I just can't be bothered watching anymore. But best wishes to those who are enjoying it.
@@BrettJones27 i can't argue against that. What bothered me the most if ten very shot episodes with 3 companions, a doctor, a plot and supporting characters.. just not enough time for all of them, then the story has to have a rush ending so we can have a stupid preachy bit. (the plastic episode was one of the worse episodes ever)
fun fact: in the novelization to the day of the doctor it says that the potion Ohila gave the 8th doctor was just dry ice and lemonade that acted as a placebo effect so the doctor can "embrace his inner warrior". so the potion didn't really do anything
It's what I call Burnham complex, the desire to make the protagonist special and completely entangled with the plot even since birth, the chosen one at the center of everything on the fictional universe.
I'm still going with the whole "this is all some twisted alternate nightmare reality" with VERY limited ties to the one we're familiar with. That or The Doctor is comatose in mid regeneration and this is all some trippy non-canon fever dream. It's the only thing that makes sense at this point.
I agree. There are other things that don't fit along those lines that make this seem more like an alternate universe. The doctor and the master both keep referring to their brains plural. Since when has the doctor had a second brain? Ryan said his mother died 8 years ago. There haven't been eight years in the show since he was introduced. Only two. Unless they're saying there was six years of off Screen Adventures
I agree. That theory is all I have left!
The Doctor is still stuck in this Time Lord Dial and this is him living out his worst nightmare until he actually gives up and agrees to give the Time Lords the information they want. At that point, Capaldi will emerge from the dial, give them the information, amaze at the realistic-ness of the dial and continue the real story for another couple of seasons before actually regenerating. This is my only remaining hope.
So when David Tenant stayed with Rose, that version of him should have unlimited regenerations as well. That ruins that episode for me. RIP doctor who.
He can't regenerate, he's half human
@@MrBluebirds1990 Aren't Jenny, Susan, and heck River was technically fully human.
But River never regenerated, she died , and Jenny regenerated but without changing her body
@@iangreen4572 River did regenerate. When she was the child in the space suit she escaped and regenerated into Mels who then regenerated into River
@@tracyroweauthor If I remember correctly (haven't watch Doctor Who in YEARS) didn't River give up the rest of her regenerations to save the doctor?
This is legit why I started wanting to write Doctor Who Fan-Fiction. I don’t care how long it takes me, I want to write a well thought-out story that respects the lore as well as keeps the spirit of the show alive. And I knew, my guts and all, that I could take an idea like “the Doctor is technically the Other” and make it interesting and respectful.
Do it. Write it. If you get good enough, apply to the BBC as script writer for Dr Who.
@@skylanderlego4163 Will do. 2 years later and I’m still loving to write.
Let me know of any other problems caused by "Interdimensional Space Jesus." It would be great to have a comprehensive list.
1. The Doctor had children and grandchildren. Shouldn't they be able to endlessly regenerate as well?
2. The Doctor and all Time Lords can sense when there are temporal disturbances, or if there's a fixed point, etc. They can see history changing. But that only makes sense if they are genetically linked to the time vortex. If regeneration energy doesn't come from the vortex, why can they sense things like this?
HACK ! FRAUD of a writer. Couldn't have said it better myself man. I despise what he has done to this series that has been so special and meant SO much to SO many people. I almost wanted to cry when you mentioned William Hartnell like, this is just disgusting. 57 years of great story telling history thrown away for nothing.
The 11th Doctor arc for three seasons about the crack in time and space is meaningless now.
The Bad Wolf would have known about the "timeless child".
A big "Theme hole" for me is the idea that Jo Martin is still called the doctor, I know you briefly mentioned it. But more specifically the doctor isn't just a title it's a promise. Surely this trivialises this promise, the promise isn't unique or special anymore, the doctor is apparently just a title because it's not established that she (Jo Martin) went through the same development as the later incarnations. The doctor isn't just a name that a timelord has it's a promise that has come from life experience and the need to be more than just an observer. Why would Jo Martin's doctor have made the same promise and wanted the same thing as the later doctors. Is the doctor just doomed to repeat the same character development everytime her memory is wiped.
@@abstractnonsense3253 You're right. As we know, the TARDIS exists outside time, and sees the Doctor's whole time stream at once. But I don't think Rose remembered anything after being the Bad Wolf, so I'm not sure this counts as a plot hole. Unless I'm missing something?
The Doctor : "But you can't rewrite history! Not one line! Barbara, one last appeal: what you are trying to do is utterly impossible. I know! Believe me, I know!".
Yes, but that was debunked by "The Time Meddler" where the entire premise of the story is that history can be changed after all.
@@ayeshazhukov although the Doctor was trying to stop him (I wonder if this & the 'Aztecs' became the bases for the fixed points in time concept?)
@@owenwildish331 Personally, I don't think the fixed point concept makes any sense at all. Imagine, for example, that you were a fixed point, and yet everything around you changed. Your family disappeared your possessions, your entire history. What does that leave? Simply an anomaly. Equally, the fixed point the Doctor bangs on about in "The Waters of Mars" is effectively wiped out a season later, in that if Adelaide Brooke was inspired to go to Mars through her encounter with that Dalek, but what happened when the entire invasion force disappeared down Amy's crack in time?
@@ayeshazhukov true (I never particularly liked the concept ether, I generally preferred some idea there's a sort of unwritten obscure yet flexible 'rule' rather than anything specific, there's also this Blinovitch Limitation Effect that's in Doctor Who which supposed to have some wield time-travel impilications
@@owenwildish331 The fact is this stuff is created either through plot convenience or to artificially generate drama.
You're quite right. Chibnall's arrogance, hubris and lack of respect for his own TV show is appalling. Just because you currently have the keys to the toybox it doesn't give you the right to break the toys.
yes my understanding of the mind battle between the doctor and morbius is that the unfamiliar faces were morbius,s previous regenerations and that makes sense.
Fan: (BBC burns your house down)... WTF have you done to my house?? You set fire to my house containing all my deeply personal treasure!!
BBC: What fire? There’s no fire. You’re crazy.
Fan: But... you burnt my house Down and destroyed all my stuff.
BBC: Naaaaaaah, the house is fine. It’s a VERY pretty house.
Fan: My house is literally a pile of smoking rubble... my dreams have been crushed.
BBC: Exactly, we appreciate it ‘appears’ “smokey” to you, but there’s NO “fire”. And, sure, we appreciate you have an emotional connection to all your treasured memories... BUT LOOK, it’s pretty. Live in it. Everyone else says this house you paid for is the bestest house on the street. It’s never looked better.
fan: I’m going to stop paying my never-ending mortgage on this house you set fire to.
BBC: Noooo. You can’t do that or we’ll put you in prison.
Fan: I’m devastated!!!
BBC: here’s a hotline for mental health problems, which we REALLY care about... unless you have socially awkward cancer....
Fan: BUT YOU SET FIRE TO MY HOUSE!
BBC: What fire?
'Oh......and the Insurance Company's checked out' (HBO).
Git Mulhaney Then the BBC pisses on you.
@@Problembeing
Ah. They might need some orifices to do that though. Clearly no bum holes from recent evidence (literal not metaphorical).
@@Problembeing
This summons up the question of what a BBC Death Star would be firing on the rest of the UK (the South East would - goes without saying - would be behind its line of fire which of course is why Salford is enclosed by a force field that no one ever talks about).
In the words of Dr. Malcolm: They were so focused on if they COULD do it, they didn't stop and think SHOULD they do it
I really genuinely hope that the only way they can fix something like this is if the master was either lying completely or was only lying about the doctor being the title child and in fact he was the Timeless child instead and that's why he destroyed Gallifrey because he was angry at his own betrayal already being insane it would make sense
I love Chris Chibby thinks he should patch up some loose 'plot holes' but ends up making a million himself
it is just disgusting to see such a classic show be thrown in the bin. Also, the idea that she is powerful genetically, I mean,isn't racial purity seen as a bad thing in doctor who AND reality,
Isn't that the whole idea surrounding the daleks? Plus the idea of the doctor is that he is morally powerful, not racially?
Charles McEnery and he punched that one dude in the face that was racist towards Bill
The one common element in all the plot holes is, the Timeless Child episodes CONTRADICTS everything that was established by the show in its prior 57 year history, not just 'adds to it' or supplements it. Basically, the show was about a mortal male, from a male-dominated alien world that in general made males look good. So the show runners and network decided to reverse everything and re-create the entire backstory, to make it about an originally female immortal character who was opportunistically tortured by an evil male society. And the BBC arrogantly thought fans wouldn't notice or care!
@@morphicresonance4015 Um what. I mean I agree The Timeless Children was a bad move but why is a female Doctor bad?
@@user-jn1wm3tb8v Um, did you read the comment? The show was about a MORTAL MALE alien from a basically good male race, but it got turned into a show about an IMMORTAL FEMALE tortured by a bad male race. The female Doc is bad because it contradicts the show's IP as established over decades. You might as well ask, "but why is a male Lara Croft bad?"
@@morphicresonance4015 I will ask. Why is a male Lara Croft bad? If time Lords can be anything they can be a woman. Really I don't care about the gender.
13:00 had me rolling. Could you imagine the doctor showing up like “so anyways I started blasting”
Honestly if i was running the show i would just straight up write out this mess of a season. No explanation just say "hey we did a dumb dumb let's fix this"
Everytime I hear about the Timeless Child, its people rightfully complaining about it. My headcanon is The Master was just lying.
I've never watched this show but I tell you this:
"I'm pissed...."
I'm not a big fan myself, and I HATE this stuff. I hate when people who own a major franchise ruin it, whether I like it myself or not.
Upsetting fans, making something beloved into low quality propaganda, wasting potential... Pisses me off. It's a shitty thing to do.
If a sequel to Twilight comes out and it's made into something like JoJo's Bizarre Adventure, as much as I love me some JoJo's, I'll still think it's a shitty thing to do to the original fans.
@@calemr I was a big fan of the show but was losing interest after Matt Smiths run and fell off completely at Season 9 after the other very horrendous writing decisions (See: Hell Bent, Me, and Clara) as it also did some pretty awful retconning of its own and just bad writing in general. I still check in every 6-7 months when I'm reminded "Oh yeah, Doctor Who still exists" and decided to check back today and...
*Jesus Fuck... What have they done?*
This breaks... just.... everything.
@@calemr don't worry for us the people who don't like are just a vocal minority
So, they turned the Doctor into a woman, and in less than 2 seasons she's already a Mary Sue.
Seriously, The Doctor was always _very_ powerful, and some would even say godlike, but he always had flaws, and always struggled, especially with morals... but now? well now she's _space Jesus_ with _infinite healing power_ and literally can never die... welp, there goes what little remains of the stakes in this show, here's hoping a future writer retcons this episode as hard as this episode retcons the entire series... Like I'm talking just completely scrub this from the canon to save any sort of semblance of sense the show has.
As far as I'm concerned, until there's a vast improvement, Capaldi was the last doctor... I'm sick of this shit.
The whole purpose is that the doctor is seen as a god, simply because of who he is. Weaponless, one person against infinity itself, yet still it's infinity that shakes in fear. But no. Actually is a god now. Yay. Great writing.
It’s bc a female lead must be “a big streong WAHMEN!”
WAHMEN don’t have weaknesses!! That’s SeXiSt!! They’re all perfect little snowflakes!!
You can see this in sooooo many other forms of media where they substitute
female *Characters* for *female* characters.
Your gender is not your identity. These people are just tearing down everything popular in the name of “Freedom”
Her gender, doesn't matter, its the fact that Jodoe Whittaker does NOT play a good doctor. They cast the doctor as a woman because it was politically correct, not because she could act
@@ctavi6654 You're describing Moffat's run in season 6 and 7. Whittaker's run has always portrayed the Doctor as someone who has to struggle to succeed, not someone that the universe is afraid of.
@The Arctic Gamer: 'The Time of the Doctor' makes it very clear that, even if the Timeless Child had infinite regenerations at one point, she was capped at the standard 12 when she got turned into infant Hartnell. No infinite regenerations or healing powers, and no space Jesus.
That's the thing that bothered me the most about The Timeless Children, if The Doctor has endless regenerations there is no risk or suspense.
another issue is that the first doctor's niece named the TARDIS, so either it's easy to come up with that and happens every incarnation or it deepens the plot hole
People say that the gate way is the time vortex, that makes no sense because rose almost died looking into the vortex, but the child should have done the same, plus the vortex was not opened yet by omega in his research, uhh. Im so frustrated.☹️
spoiler alert series 13
and dont forget to tune in to next seasons exciting 1st episode of doctor who called " screw you viewers " written by chris chibnall , in which we find out that the time lords didnt invent transdimentional engineering after all, they won it in a game of poker !!!
Sounds about right👍
Well said. Chibnall is such a hack! Series 11 and 12 need to be retconned and purged from existence.
Either a hard retcon, or just end the show. Unfortunately, Series 13 with Chibnall and Whittaker is already in production.
Yep. Retcons are fine provided they do what you want.
@@gregmainer5416 there were quite a few private Doctor Who projects during the time the show was suspended. They were of... variable quality
@@BWHERE "Just end the show". What a brilliant idea. You must have thought long and hard to come up with that one. Then there wouldn't be any more Doctor Who right? So we wouldn't get to watch any new episodes. Again I repeat, what a brilliant idea. Your intelligence is just mind-boggling my friend. Have you ever thought of getting into politics. The world desperately needs more people like you.
@@flagburlinson6041 so... What is your point? He thinks the show had been irreprebly damaged and would rather see it end than continue on like this. Are you just trying to be a sarcastic asshole for the sake of it? If it's just attention you want then this isn't an especially good way to get it so why don't you just go elsewhere if you refuse to contribute anything constructive.
My take on the end of the Doctor:
At the conclusion of ‘The Time of the Doctor,’ the 11th Doctor mistakenly thought that the Time Lords were granting him a completely new regeneration cycle. They weren’t. They granted him *one more* life to enable him to complete his work on Trenzalore and defeat the Daleks.
During ‘Twice Upon A Time,’ the 12th Doctor is struggling with the decision of whether to regenerate or to refuse, unaware that this was his final incarnation. Ultimately, this decision is taken out of his hands. As he regenerates, the artron energy dissipates into the heart of the TARDIS. The Doctor has passed away. The TARDIS travels on and reconstitutes the Doctor’s personality and memories to create the being known in ‘The Day of the Doctor’ as ‘The Curator,’ an artificially generated being that is able to shape itself into different forms of the Doctor’s past faces (ie an older fourth doctor, maybe a younger first doctor, younger seventh doctor, older ninth doctor etc). It remains as a monument to the Doctor’s history and ensures that his work lives on.
The only thing I can think of is that the Time Lords took so much of the Timeless Child's regeneration energy that the child could no longer naturally regenerate. This would be an issue for Future generations and thus they had to use the time vortex to give time lord's regenerations but it seemed to have some strange affects to the younger generation (i.e The Master, The Rhani, other time lords in Who history etc etc)
I think the writers never watched the show. I can’t think of any other excuse.
Some time before or during the wilderness years of doctor who a young chibnall along with a couple of other teenagers went on a talk show and talked about the declining state of the show before it went off air and chibnall was one of the MAIN VOICES in talking about it. Meaning he's been a fan of the show before and still took it into his own hands to burn the history of the show acinder
They probably thought: yeah, it's sci-fi, then, let's add random scenes
@@thestranger2830 Chibnall is probably one of those rabid fans that thought "if I ever get my hands on the show, I'm going to do it MY WAY and create MY VISION and never thought once about whether he should.
What about Jenny? Since she's made from the doctor should she be like immortal and interdimentional and stuff?
The soldiers in "The Doctor's Daughter" don't appear to be perfect copies, they just appear to be based on the genetic code of the person they sample DNA from. Jenny might be part Gallifreyan DNA, but she isn't a Timelord. She does have two hearts, but there's no reason to believe she can regenerate (she does revive in the show, but the clues suggest she is somehow revived by the terraforming device (kind of like Spock, in The Search For Spock, being regenerated by the genesis Probe).
@@MichaelJohnson-kq7qg The Doctor is not from Gallifrey, 🙄 ain't you paying attention?
@@Triztan411 that's an assumption. We dont know where or when the Timeless Child came from
@@MichaelJohnson-kq7qg I assume you haven't read the news but the show runner confirmed that the previous incarnations are the doctor, and in the episode we see them getting killed over and over again so that the galiifreyans can get regeneration an become Time Lords. Thus Jenny comes from the source of regeneration which is a timeless child that comes from another dimension or universe and has infinite regeneration energy.
@@Triztan411 you have made assumptions. We never see anyone kill the child. We only see the child have a fatal accident, once, and regenerate a couple of times with no explanation for why.
Similarly, you've assumed the Timeless Child isn't from Gallifret just because she was found somewhere else, but that's not a logical assumption given what we know
They should have made the master the timeless child. It works much better. Why he hates the timelords, why he always turns back up without explanation, etc
I've never heard it put more clearly. I think any one of us could have made a better showrunner than chibbs at this point. When they eventually change writers again, I hope they'll have the courage to retcon this retcon. It makes me so sad.