Whoever’s ‘running the show’ seriously has this on lockdown because these are television quality productions. You guys are even making your own cut scenes it seems like!
@CimarronWay you my friend are so amazing!! I love how you trash talk anything and everything just to get a reaction *THEN* you trash talk *THAT* simply brilliant! You should quit your day job and just sit on the computer making a complete ass of yourself whilst wasting your time doing and watching "lame things". No seriously, you have reached the pinnacle of your trolling career 👋 No where left to go now but up 😎
There was one video where teens (1 ring leader and the rest followed/went along but no one stopped the murder) killed another teen... and having 2 great teenagers in the house it hit me so hard, from both sides trying to put myself in the parents shoes... I still don't know for sure which would be worse :( knowing your precious child was murdered, or knowing your child WAS the murderer... ...there were no real clues/signs leading up to it, all of them, including the victim were hanging out in the same group, being normal teens and rebeling a little, smoking weed... but all had had decent upbringings otherwise. So much tragedy in this world.
@@silencelambs1238 if you’re insinuating having empathy for someone who learned their teenage child had done horrific things and had to be the one to tell the police what she had found is somehow a problem you need help. Seeing the body alone must’ve been so traumatizing for her, let alone having to come to terms with her son being the one who had caused it.
I understand you brother. If something like that happened, my life would be dedicated to find the responsible party and kill them, I wouldn't have it any other way, I couldn't. But I admit I couldn't do that to a murderous child.
@@isabel.bolivia understandable but life is about taking risks, there are so many dangers to basic day to day things we do. Don’t let fear stop you from feeling the love of holding your own child
Yes! I heard in another podcast that Josh displayed concerning aggressive behavior and that Maddie's parents no longer allowed her to spend time alone with Josh. It's suspected he tricked her into coming into his house, suggesting he premeditated harming Maddie.
@@hovnocuc4551 it may seem an odd rule now days but when I was a kid we werent allowed to have kids in while both parents were gone as did most of our neighbors. The specific rule about girls is understandable if a boy was maybe girl crazy and visa versa with girls being boy crazy. He was around the age when tweens start noticing the opposite gender. Not saying this boy wasn't showing disturbing signs but it's plausible 🤷🏼♀️ btw I'm 51 so yeah I grew up at a time when kids had rules.. well most kids 🙃
Josh’s dad was 100% correct for trying to keep his son under supervision, i mean look at what the hell happened when no one was home! Cant believe they tried to say his father was intimidating and thats why he did it, that sounds so ridiculous if he was so scared of his father he wouldnt have allowed maddie over. Josh was a sick kid and im glad hes put away for good without parol
Agreed!! My parents treat me exactly the same as Josh’s dad, if I had been in Josh’s shoes I would have turned her away and told her to come back when my parents where home
You realise the “intimidating” part is probably more than just not letting people over. What’s more likely is consistent acts of domestic abuse that only the family would really be able to share.
@@TheDramacist she'd probably give it if prompted, but she was holding it together rather well considering the circumstances and answered the questions without much difficulty. If you listen to other calls from similar situations it's often close to impossible to understand what the caller is saying, it's how we react to extreme situations and it's very hard to fight through the flood of adrenaline.
She didn't even know what her daughter was wearing. Also why was she letting her 8 year old daughter play with a 14 year old boy? Doesn't seem like a great parent.
@@yo_eddie2576 yes let's just keep children locked inside the house... Clearly her mom (Maddy's grandmother) was home and she didnt just leave her alone with a neighborhood kid (who was well known and a good friend of Maddy's and probably the family). I don't think anyone can just assume that a little kid would harm your child like in the video. Smh, you have hindsight. Don't mistake it as wisdom or knowledge
??? if you played that audio and removed the context, no one would describe that person as calm. she sounded frantic. understandably so. relative to the horror that was unfolding she was coherent, but they didnt know how serious it was then and the mind can desperately cling to normalcy and downplay the situation
Idk why people were so weird about the dad not allowing his kids to have friends over without parents home. That was a rule we had as kids and it makes complete sense in my eyes. You don't know what kids will do unsupervised, sometimes kids play more rough without supervision and one can get hurt. Like you just never know what might happen so it's best not to have them over without parent supervision or permission
I agree. I am 25 now and even today if friends are coming to my home, they can only come when mom or dad is there. Its not that they dont trust me. Its bcz they dont know what other ppl are capable of.
We have different cultures guys, not everyone in the globe moves out of the house when they turn 18 or something. They only get to move out when college is far away or they're getting married.
@@ryuugaeisen8946 I'm from India. We live with our parents for life. Doesn't mean our parents dictate our social life and "permit" us to meet others solely in their presence. Lol And it's not 18, this person said "25".
My parents wouldn't let my brother and I hang out with the "older kids" in our neighborhood when we were growing up for this exact reason. They might be kids but teenagers are still capable of truly awful things. Especially when they're devoid of any empathy or impulse control.
your parents were correct, I ran around freely and am honestly surprised that I survived childhood. just one example: was walking with my best friend at the time and her older boyfriend who loved to pick on me, as I was passing a stop sign, he grabbed my tiny head and and slammed it into the pole, laughed and kept walking. I literally saw stars spinning like in looney tunes. my "best friend" laughed too and we all kept walking and i just focused on not crying.
Mad respect for Josh's mother for turning him in!!!!! She could have easily helped him disappear all the evidence and no one would have ever suspected him. THANK YOU, BRAVE HEROINE!!
@@identifyhasbeenstolen5027Right? The other cases that have shown parents (of their young OR fully adult children) helping them hide their crime has become ridiculous. Eventually my mom turned to me while we were watching a Dateline and said ‘If you do something like that, I’m not covering anything for it. You need to turn yourself in.’ I just nodded. I don’t even think I needed to because she knew I supported that.
Wow I didn’t even think of that, however this comment is soo true. His mom could easily have created a serial r*pist/killer I she didn’t turn him in. Kudos to her for doing the right thing, despite it ruining her world.
That poor little girl, I can’t imagine the fear she felt as she was going through those horrible things! The worry in her Mother’s voice just breaks my heart.
@Sky Gardener but the little girl told her mom that she was playing around the house...and they both are neighbours...she clearly didn't lie. Please don't defend that psychopath like that..
@Sky Gardener yeah. You're right...i guess assuming what was said in the video that they boy seemed quiet and friendly, no one would have thought he was capable of...this
There are two types of people on this world...... One who fantasize beautiful women and do such action which may harm them..... Most boys do when they hit puberty The other half change quickly after their parents give them good councilling or they encounter something similar including young boys Sorry but true he sexually assaulted Maddie..... I can read his mind clearly Really sorry sorry sorry
there's a podcast where maddie's sister, jessica, who was 11 at the time, discusses the misconceptions of this case and really brings some light to some topics. i recommend it
Stabbing 9 times Cutting Throat Tying her up Removing clothes Discovering her alive and again stabbing her. Sleeping on her body for Weeks. This guy is a Psycholath! Not a kid!
I can't believe this,Josh was so scared of his father that he murdered someone, a terrible made-up story. This child is dangerous even to adults. I salute Josh's mother for exposing her own son, which is commendable, and the right thing.
My gut tells me that it wasn't really Josh's father being "intimidating" that was the issue. To me, it's absolutely reasonable for him to not want his son to be alone with a girl unsupervised, especially a girl who was just over half of Josh's age (remember, Josh was 14, and Maddie was 8). Especially since teenagers are at a very hormonal stage of their development while also lacking the kind of self-control and restraint that a mature adult would/should have, so it's safer to have an adult around to supervise just in case something ever went wrong or one of the kids started to cross a line. But at the end of the day, I see Josh as little more than a narcissistic sociopath who doesn't really care about what he did to Maddie, only about what he himself is going through. I don't like to say this about someone who was a kid at the time, but I don't think Josh is anything other than a monster. And there's also the fact that there were signs of Josh having an obsession with Maddie's older sister, which I take as a bad sign, as I suspect that had Josh not been discovered when he did, it may not have taken that much longer for him to then go after Maddie's sister. I do give his mother credit for alerting the police when she learned the truth, however. That could not have been easy to do, to both know that your own son was a monster and a murderer, and that the little girl you had been trying to help your neighbors find had been hidden in your own house the entire time, and that it was up to you to reveal the truth and give Maddie's family some semblance of closure so that they at least knew where she was and what had happened to her....painful as it might have been.
I mean.. I could see it a little. Abuse can do a number on you but my guess is he had something wrong with him already and his father made it worse, plus being a scared hormonal irrational teen. Narcissism is inherited. He likely got it from his father. But considering that it was more of a premeditated murder it's pretty hard to believe that's the sole reason. I think the fear in the interview was the fear of being put behind bars and only regretting that he's in trouble. Again narcissist. He definitely needs to be behind bars regardless.
@@gamester512 right, ir seems that he already wanted to do this to a girl, like it says in the video, that kid seems to be a psychopath, he lied many times and didn't care to go to sleep with a body under his bed, thats fucked up
I feel terribly sorry for josh’s mother, it must have been hard to realize that it was all her son’s doing, the fact that she has been raising a monster is horrifying
Whoever the man is voicing these videos is actually amazing. It's crazy how much he makes me focus and break down things. Need a whole crime podcast with just his voice.
@@Epiiphqny-d3d Not just older men. Older kids in general. Even kids their age can be really dangerous, unfortunately applies to other family members as well. It's always best to make sure the kid is *really* safe with someone you know for sure you can trust.
@@zesranehajzle1707 Ik but when I said older men I meant someone who's just a bit older. 8,9 10 stuff like that. And yeah you shouldn't leave your young children or teenagers with someone you don't trust. Female,male, cousin sister brother.
Seems to me that Josh’s dad knew something about his son that nobody else did , cause look at what happened to Maddie when he wasn’t watching over him. Also good job to Josh’s mom for getting a police officer to go and look at what she found , instead of trying to cover it up and helping Josh. May Maddie Rest In Peace 💙
bro if i were her, I would've freaked out too and called the police asap 🗿 no way am i going to live under the same roof as a potential violent psychopath
Actually Josh’s father was an alcoholic and a drug addict, and both Josh and his mother attest that he was incredibly abusive. Josh’s side of the story is that he was so afraid of his abusive father that he’d rather murder a girl to cover up the fact he played with a girl from his dad. Now whether or not that’s the truth behind his killing of her is up in the air, but it’s certainly true that his father was a pretty terrible person. Most serial killers usually have at least one abusive parent
It’s pretty normal to not want your kids playing with other kids unsupervised though, if someone gets hurt playing a little rough it’s hard to know whose to blame. It also means the kids are free to do stupid things
I want to salute Josh’s father for trying everything he could while alive, to prevent his son from harming other children. I wish he had been alive to reveal what exactly made him suspect his own son was a potential risk to society. The fact that he was ‘intimidating’ according to Josh’s mother only makes me think that perhaps he was not only trying to keep his son at bay for other children but to protect himself. Maybe he saw Josh watching extremely disturbing content on the internet, maybe he was violent towards animals… you know, the kind of behavior that normally raises the alarms, or he found Josh’s journal/diary where he expressed his deviant feelings. I don’t know about anyone else but Josh’s mother on the other hand seemed way too oblivious or candid…
Kid might have saw examples of his father being abusive in his own home and felt powerless. Fetishizing it may have been a form of coping and taking control of his fears.
You’re assuming his dad had these rules because he knew his son was a potential murderer? And then saluting him for it?? For doing nothing to actually get his son help? That’s a yikes from me all around. What a terrible opinion. 1) Not having other people over when home alone is a normal rule most kids (should) have 2) It’s clearly indicative (to me) that his dad wasn’t just “intimidating”, but rather potentially abusive. Know the warning signs to look out for! It’s doesn’t make Josh innocent or excuse what he did, but dang please try to learn to spot potential abuse in a household… or at least don’t salute parents who you think know their children are messed up but do not nothing about it.
Since they are both children, a lot of people will probably see it as innocent, and cute that they play baseball together. I personally wouldn't allow it, but I can see why people wouldn't necessarily think of it as weird.
It's not THAT weird, depending on setting and circumstance. We see this kind of thing with siblings all the time. Big brothers often have a soft spot for their little sisters and will play games with them. The same thing happens between cousins with an age gap and less frequently with unrelated children. It's all perfectly healthy on the face of it, though of course there are a fringe minority of terrible monsters who will exploit these relationships.
My entire respect went to Josh's mom though. A lot of mothers would do anything to protect their child, even from crime. A mother would help their child bury a body if it meant their child would be okay but she did the right thing and reported to the police. That's incredible (Edit) I am so confused on why a lot of people are offended lmao. Yall literally getting mad for no reason. If you all need further proof, try searching for the latest case, which is Tristyn Bailey's murder case back in 2021. A 13 year old girl who was dragged into the woods by a 14 year old boy and was stabbed 114 times because she was refusing his advances. Then his MOTHER was allegedly seen in a surveillance footage, washing the blood off his jeans. She was charged for tampering with evidence. It's real. Mother's can also be monsters when it comes to their kids. Stop living in a bubble of "everyone is good". The fact that you even watch this video is proof that there are horrible humans out there
Agreed, I cant even imagine. Being able to immediately go find an officer is a strength I hope to have. So heartbreaking for all the parents in this case
He 100% fantasied about doing this, he had a whole cover story ready, and had a bunch of air fresheners and incenses at his disposal. As a teenager I would never hang out with anyone even 2 years younger than me deliberately, that age difference was the first red flag.
Yeah, I'm a teenager and hanging out with someone 6 years younger than me is a massive age gap. When you're in your 20's and up it's not much different, but when you're a teenager that's a literal child, an elementary school kid. I have nothing in common with them. Of course I'll babysit and supervise for family friends, but choosing to hangout with an 8 year old out of my own volition is something I would never do.
I’m shocked by the fact that josh blamed his actions on his father and his father was right not allowing his child to play with girls younger than him. The dad obviously knew what other people didn’t what a creep that boy is and I wouldn’t ever ever let him back out with the public!
You'd be surprised how much fear a father can instill in their son when he is a physical disciplinarian, I know from personal experience at that age how intimating they can be to the point they don't even want to go home after school just because of a less than satisfactory school report card etc, it's terrifying to a 13 or 14 year old kid
It's not a stretch in my opinion to believe he was abused himself. Its not often that children raised in loving, supportive households go on to commit murder, especially less so as a child on another child. Its far more common to see abused children do stuff like this, and perpetuate the cycle of abuse. For a minor to do something like this, I can only assume there was something else going on at home. But I guess we will never truly know.
I remember seeing this case on Killer Kids, truly heartbreaking! It’s really suspish that the Dad didn’t want him to hang around little girls without supervision, I feel like he knew there was something wrong with Joshua. By the way, you are hands down one of the best true crime narrator out there. Thank you for all your hard work.
I agree. But I also don't think it's a super great idea to be letting a 14 year old boy hang out alone with a 10 year old girl he has no relation to. I'm not saying boys that age are like Josh but regardless if I had a daughter she would not be allowed to play alone with a hormonal boy. It's not their fault but regardless, not a great idea. And I sure as hell wouldn't let my son play alone at that age with younger girls knowing where boys typically are by that age if you get what I'm saying without being graphic. Boys like Josh are rare, sure, but always better to be safe.
@@amandaloveless4369 my cousin was 6 and SA’d by a 9 yr and old. I don’t let my kid play alone with anybody kid no matter age or sex, u never know a kids history home life or issues. My friends kid got SA’d and sad , not her fault but I don’t need them telling my kid about it
@@wanderlust1229 exactly, that's one of the worst things ever and I'm sorry to hear that. I know how incredibly common it is. Alot of times abused/sexually abused kids end up doing it themselves to someone else. Such a sad and tragic cycle of abuse.
As someone who was severely secually abused by a teenage boy, NEVER LEAVE YOUR 8 YEAR OLD DAUGHTER WITH A TEENAGE BOY AND DO NOT LET AN INAPPROPRIATE FRIENDSHIP EXIST
so true!! me and my younger sister were both se*ually harrassed by teenage boys in our neighborhood, i was 13 and she was 8 at the time Unbelievable what teenage boys are capable of!
@@sagegauss true, some people kinda blame the dad for having strict rules about having kids in the house unsupervised, but potential killer or not, children still need to be supervised just to make sure they're safe.
Yeah usually the parents will either keep it a secret to cover it up or they just won't believe it and take their kid's side sad that most parents can be in denial about that and don't want to believe that their kid could do something horrific
Yah, most people wouldn't have the balls too tell the police. He did something horrible and definitely lied about most things, dad was right about everything
Considering what Josh did, you can certainly understand why his dad had a rule that Josh was not allowed to be around other kids without adult supervision.
The fact that he was able to mask everything from his emotions to the air fresheners is insane, this is more than a child being afraid of his parent this is a stone cold killer. I remember hearing about this story awhile ago feeling both sad for Maddie and Josh but now I know that had he gotten away with killing her there definitely could've been another victim the older he got. I'm not sorry for him, his father was right to not have friends over when they're not there to supervise. I give props to the mother for reporting her son as well, it must've been extremely hard considering that that's her baby.
@@Fuzzysea693 I hadn't known the full complete story at the time! Someone on tiktok did a short summary on it and didn't really add any other details but the fact he was afraid of what his father might have done to him, which murder still isn't a good reason obviously but having only that piece of information only made me think that had his father not been shitty he definitely wouldn't react as bad as he did (Which again was an assumption that the father was to blame because they barely gave any detail to the case), watching this short documentary however made it even more obvious that regardless of his father's behavior there was most definitely something wrong with him to begin with, he's a cold blooded killer just like any other true crime case came to be.
In my personal opinion, there is no ‘sorry’ feelings for those who by any circumstances can try to end someones life, though, be afraid for their own. As if other people are not ‘people’ and only the killer is. I really hope he will die in prison and will never hurt anyone again.
A 14 year old is 100% aware of their actions…. That poor girl… she did not deserve to die by this monster… Please keep an eye on who your children are hanging around. I get it, you can’t watch your kids 24/7 but an 8 year old and a 14 year old being friends is not ideal.. I really wished that his father was alive to give his side of the story. He obviously knew something about his son.
I don't understand...when i was 14, i used to play with kids around the neighborhood, but how can someone think of a kid in such a sickening manner.... that's horrible...
A lot of teens dont really understand death. This is not an excuse by any stretch of the imagination. This boy is 100% responsible for his actions and should pay the ultimate price for being a monster. But i do know many lucid and intelligent teenagers who still dont understand the finality of death. I think this is a major contributor to teen suicide
I would NEVER let my 8 year old daughter play with a 14 year old boy, especially not alone!! That just is NOT right. I'm so sorry for what happened, may she rest in peace. 🙏🏽
Psychopathy does not affect everyone and there is no fixed age either for the victim or for the psychopath. Attention and care is the only weapon we have against this evil.
Seriously, yes there were a lot of things wrong here but I'm surprised more people aren't shocked at an 8 year old girl playing with a non-relative teenage boy
@@arcjan hard disagree. My mum let me “play” unsupervised with my teenage neighbours when I was between the ages of 5 and 8 (I can’t quite remember the age of everyone involved because it was so long ago). The boy (between 13 and 16) $e*ua||¥ assaulted me and the girl (17 or 18) forced me to smoke cigarettes while taking photos and laughing with her friends. Over 20 years later and I’m still completely traumatised and mental ill as a result.
@@arcjan and if all they want to do is play baseball then they shouldn't have any issue with waiting until they can be supervised. Children have legal guardians for a reason.
Ummmm so they walked on egg shells around the dad because he had strict rules like not wanting any kids over in his house when no adult was present and he didn't like his son playing with girls younger then him. Those restrictions should be in every household. For starters, the age gap between Josh and this poor young girl was too large. Why in the world would anyone find it appropriate for the 2 to be playing together? Obviously, those strict rules are put into place for good reason. After all, look what happened when Josh had a girl younger than him over his house without his parents' home. I offer prayers to this young girls' parents!
@@kathrynhoward4196 Even then, it's still wrong to partner up a teen with a literal kid. Got first hand experience. Never let your kids play/"hangout" above/below their age group with proper adult supervision. But even with all that, shit happens.
I can't imagine what it's like to be Maddie's sister knowing that she was the initial target. Not only would that leave her paranoid, but I bet she'd feel guilt knowing that her younger sister wasn't even the target in the first place. The circumstances just happened to line up for that sick kid who killed her. I hope each family can find peace because this is such a tragic case for all parties involved (excluding Josh).
This is such a sad and tragic story. What she went through was nothing short of horrifying. Joshua should never be able to get out of prison ever. Thank you Ewu for covering this tragic story. My deepest condolences go out to the family and loved ones. 🙏😪
Huge respect for the mother, she remained coherent and communicated the situation well to dispatch even while clearly extremely distressed and panicked.
Josh may have been "intimidated" by his father, but he has not even a single right to blame his father OR his so called "panic attack". It's horrifying how people can be influenced but such videos. Hopefully, josh will understand that he deserves his life-in-prison sentence , and accepts his punishment. edit: Thank you for agreeing with me.
@@ericme4767 exactly, and the first thought he had was to hit her with a *bat* to get her stop crying?? not take her back to her family when theyre just across the street? you can definitely tell a 14 yo came up with that
@@ericme4767 also like most people have strict parent, that doesn't mean that they're horrible parents and neither do normal people go around killing people in panic, tf.
@@ericme4767 It was an excuse created by his legal team. If he was so afraid he wouldn't have brought home someone who could have caused his father to get angry in the first place. How dragging someone inside yout home to help goes to beating and stabing to make them shut up.
@Seph X he was born an innocent boy. maybe he had underlying mental instability but that can be recognized and treated. the neglect throughout his childhood made him capable of doing what he did.
He brought her in to “play” tried to touch her and she maybe screamed or tried to leave and he hit her to keep her from telling anyone. That’s what I’m catching on.
While I don't doubt that the killer's father was abusive, maybe he had a good reason for forbidding young girls from visiting Josh unsupervised. Something may have happened before Maddie's death with another child, or he may have caught him viewing that violent CP on his computer.
Perhaps it was maybe their specific Clifton family because if he had noticed the picture of Jesse that he had, the father of course wouldn’t want his son to be alone with any of the sisters for THEIR safety
@@theresekatie4841 Just because there was no semen found on her doesn’t mean that the murder wasn’t sexually motivated. He could have released somewhere else or even just getting satisfaction without finishing. Idk. It seems sexually motivated to me but that doesn’t mean that it definitely was.
Many young girls reported the first time they were molested or raped was either by a brother or their brother’s friends. Yeah, you don’t let other kids over to your house when the parents are gone and you certainly don’t let older boys play with little girls.
I agree to this. But its curious as to what really went down. Because they did check for assault but nothing came back as he did any sexual acts on her.
I remember when I was a 911 dispatcher I had a woman call saying she thought her 3yr old daughter was missing. She went in her garage & found her 14yr old son with his little sister on his lap and he was SA her. This lady wanted me to stay on the phone with her because she said if not she would kill her son because her baby girl was not even crying as if this wasn't the first time he had SA'd her. Then she said her 5yr old son was saying his 14yr old brother had did something to his butt. Mom said she just thought the 5yr old didn't know what he was saying. She was like now idk if he has done anything to sons. It was so heartbreaking. She kept asking me how do you protect your kids from your own kids?!! My point is you even have to watch how your own kids interact with each other, not just with outside strangers.
Ugh, that's absolutely sickening. I'm sorry you had to take that call. 911 operators must go through so much trauma on the job. It's also incredibly disturbing how common children SA other children, even siblings. It's such a taboo topic that no one wants to acknowledge. I've heard people say that it usually means the perpetrator was SA'd themselves, but I have to wonder if that's really the case every time. I think just being exposed to porn at a young age can enough to warp some kids into being predators. Not saying that's the case for every child that gets exposed to it at a young age but it's disturbing to think about considering how easily accessible it is on the internet and how little parents monitor their kid's internet use these days.
a huge number of adolescent boys 8-13 are watching porn, and these types of events are more comment than people think. They used to say that a child molesting younger children is a telltale sign that that child was molested themselves and just repeating learned-behavior; not anymore. They're learning that behavior from somewhere else now. I was SA'd as a 18 month old by my teenage neighbor, who babysat me; years later is came out that he had been doing the same thing to both of his younger half-brothers from his mom's second marriage, and had been doing so for most of their lives. My case was never reported, though I told my mother, but my mom was friends with his Dad/parents. Can't imagine what I would do as a mom if that was my kid; the only option you'd have would just to relinquish them to the state or juvi
@@bevs9995 this is horrifying. Your abuse is just as valid as theirs. That person should have been sentenced to death imo. What they did is unforgivable. And your parents should also have been more careful and taken some of the responsability that happened to you.
I grew up in Jacksonville and am around the same age Maddie was (at the time, obviously). This case absolutely shook our city. Murder happens a lot in Jax, but this was an entirely different level.
I too am the same age, born in 1990 and was 8 years old at the time... My dad would show me this on the news, telling me not to trust anybody and never let a sibling go anywhere alone
is disgusting that Josh’s mother was going along with Josh’s lies that the father was a tyrant . Josh’s FATHER was the only responsible person in that family . He was💯 right that Josh should not be allowed to have children over without adult supervision . I agree with the father that a teenage boy should not be hanging around with a little girl . Did no-one think it odd apart from Josh’s father ? WHY WAS 8 year old Maddie hanging out with 14 year old teenager Josh? Teenage boys can get curious but usually with girls who are developed not children . I believe Josh’s next target would have been Maddie’s sister . I believe Some people are born talented , some extra good and some are born Evil. . I believe Josh is born evil . He lacks empathy and compassion for others . I hope he’s not released next year . He’s a danger to young girls and women. I believe if he’s released he will m.urder again .
The appeal is not about releasing him (God forbid....), but about reducing his sentence from life in prison to 40 years, meaning he will be in his mid 50s when he gets out. Now let'S think logically, what perspective, emotional and psychological sanity can a 55 years old man that grew up and became a man in prison can have? He seems to underestimate the life outside after such a long sentence ; and the ones who fight for him as well. That is a recipe for disaster in most cases...
@@adzreenaziz6255 I think they used it as a strategy in trying to get a milder sentence for him. Sometimes juries fall for such a sob story. Even if the guy was strict (they never claimed or proved he was an abuser), that was no reason to kill another human being.
@@adzreenaziz6255 he seemed like the only responsible adult in the house and he got demonised for it, whereas the mother seems narcissistic and lied to cover for her sick son. I feel so terribly for the father, he didn’t deserve that treatment
I was a navy brat living in Jax when this happened, and I had met Maddie once through a friend at a birthday party. She seemed like a normal girl that does normal things. When all this happened I couldn't really process it. Now as a parent of a beautiful girl, this makes my heart hurt.
So gross about the cp being on computer right before the murder. The way she was partial dressed when she was found and that definitely indicate the crime was sexual. Also him having a picture of the victims sister that he would of had to stolen from the home definitely make it seem like he was obsessed with the daughters of the that family.
I actually went to school with Josh and we were friends in middle school but we grew apart and got interested in different things...I also knew Maddie from the ymca summer camp. Never would have imagined something like this would have happen....Josh even helped looked for her....I do know Josh was terrified of his father but his father was the type of father that what he said goes and disobey and you will suffer consequences...I was also there in school in the day they picked Josh up and walked him out of wolfson high school in cuffs.
Holy shit... ACTUALLY?? Did you notice any behavior or personality changes in Josh a few days or weeks before Maddies unfortunate passing 🤔 😕 or did all of this happen all out of the blue
@@1nfinite464 kinda just happened out of the blue....Josh at that time was kind of the outcast in school not having to many friends....I had stop talking to him a couple of months before this happened
@@bayo2674 abusive I don't think so but he did have a short fuse but he didn't take no shit his word was law and just like most kids they test to see how far they can push their parents....he wouldn't whip Josh for no reason or like slap or punch Josh in the face that I can remember
I was 8 years old at the same time and only two weeks older than Maddie. I also grew up in Jacksonville. I remember being devastated following this on the news. This was the first murder case I remember understanding from start to finish. On a side note, as a former 14 year old, I definitely don’t understand how him playing with her wasn’t a red flag. I would sometimes horseplay with my younger cousins, but I couldn’t stand younger kids otherwise.
This isn’t completely accurate, Josh and Maddie were not friends, in fact Maddie’s parents didn’t allow him in their home or near their children because he had broken into their house due to his obsession with Maddie’s older sister
@@insearchofpeace6749 a podcast I listen to called Morbid actually spoke to Maddie’s older sister and she clarified a few misconceptions about the case. It also came out in court that this had happened
@@greasygod93 that’s what he said happened, but investigators think that he lured her into his yard/house, they found evidence that he was watching extremely violent child porn right before it happened
I can never hear about a waterbed without remembering this case and poor Maddie. Her sister Jessica’s interviews are a must watch. I feel so terrible for her. You can tell she misses her little sister so much. Maddie wasn’t even supposed to be speaking to Josh because he had been basically stalking Jessica and worrying the Clifton parents. I guess she just went over trustingly. :(
I have just a tiny question. The sherif said that they had searched Josh's house before and they didn't find anything suspicious. So like, did they just roughly look at the room or did they actually try to check? Because under a bed is like, a key place to check for something right? :( also, may Maddie's soul rest in peace. She didn't deserve this at all :( Edit - My theory is that Josh probably first hid Maddie somewhere. Like, beat her half to death, and hid her somewhere. Then the inspection happened. And I say this because if he had killed Maddie in his house, it's definitely not easy to clean up a scene, plus hide a body really well in just half an hour's time. So after the inspection, he retrieved the body and stashed it under his bed.
The way those old waterbeds were, the mattress sat on thick wooden boards attached to baseboards that held the bed up from the floor. You can't put anything or see anything underneath those types of waterbeds without dismantling the baseboards. They probably didn't even think of looking there. As he said, Josh duct-taped the bed back together after putting her body under it, and the only reason his mom saw her is because the bed started falling apart. If you look at 8:14 in the video, you can see what I'm talking about. Him sleeping on the bed is probably what weakened the tape to the point that it fell apart.
I know this is not the first time when the victim is on the premises and detectives and forensics didn’t bother to do their job properly. The majority of murders conducted by family members, the first thing they should search is the house and then surrounding premises.
Oh poor Maddie. I’m from jacksonville and this story as a kid quite literally HAUNTED me. It was back when hardly any memorial pages where even made, but Maddie had one, one of those old school yahoo made ones. I would visit and read over and over what happened to her.
When I was around 5-6 yo I got molested by a teen boy who lived next to my house at that time. Nobody knew. Thankfully he and his fam moved out before something worse could happen to me. Josh's dad wasn't wrong to have a strict rule of not letting little girls play inside the house with Josh. Psychopathic tendencies or not, kids (and teenagers, to some degree) need to be supervised, that should be common sense.
@@Ladycouture99 yeah that's a sad reality we live in, I feel like all the girls I know, each one of them had been harassed or molested on a different degree.
I'm not judging or victim-blaming Maddie's mother, she seems like she really loved and cared for her and I feel absolutely horrible for her. But I wouldn't feel comfortable letting my 8 year old be friends with a 14 year old. Especially an 8 year old girl and a 14 year old boy. That's almost twice her age. People don't want to believe that children or teenagers can hurt or prey on other children but it happens all the time.
I saw Maddie's mother do an interview saying they had banned the girls from hanging out with him because he had made a sexual joke to them while in the presence of the parents and grandparents... I was the same age as Maddie was at the time and I remember seeing it on the news and not really understanding what had happened, but after that my parents made sure me and my siblings never went anywhere alone and we never hung out with anyone too old or too young... Me being the oldest, I had to carry a LOT of responsibility but now that I know why It makes a lot of sense now
her parents did actually ban her from being his friend, cops think that what actually happened was Maddie tried to find an extra golf ball (since she was last seen looking for one) and he lured her into his house
Seriously I wouldn't have thought anything of it but if I have a kid I'm never ever letting them chill unsupervised with an older kid with a massive age gap like this.
This was my first thought as a parent. There's no way in a million years I would allow my young daughters to go play with a teenage boy from the neighborhood. Even if I knew them well.
*This happened a few years before I was born, but I kid you not when I heard this story around the time I was 8 years old myself. It has never truly ever left my head. Hearing what happened to her made me terrified to hang out with the bigger kids or even hang out with people I barely know period.* You truly never know what someone’s capable of in the moment of very strong and tense emotions. I knew her face vaguely since I only needed to hear the story once to learn the life long lesson, but just after seeing the thumbnail I knew exactly who you were talking about. I’m 21 now, but what happened here is terrible and it really does live in my head rent free. *If you’ve got abusive parents and you’re doing something you’re not supposed to be doing and you hurt another by accident, CONSOLE THEM TO GET THEM TO STOP FREAKING OUT, DO NOT BEAT THEM INTO SUBMISSION, set an example for yourself do not turn into the bad role model your parents are.* REST IN PARADISE MADDIE 🥺💕 your story has been with me for a very long time and I will never forget it.
They found books about cult in his room and he had been watching videos with adult content an hour before the girl went missing, they also found a photo of her then 11 year old sister in his room. These police/ investigators know what they're doing and have solid evidence to show that it was not an accident - 12:45
All of that was just an excuse to cover up his crimes. He fucking took her shorts and underwear off! You think he did that because he was "afraid of his dad"? Nope. He lured that poor little girl to satisfy his sick twisted mind and killed her on purpose. That evil piece of shit deserves to rot in prison for the rest of his miserable life or even better, get the death penalty.
I grew up in Jacksonville and was 6 years old at the time that this happened. I'm glad that my mom was overprotective of me by not allowing me to stay over at a friend's house and always knowing where I was. Cases like this hit home, literally.
My father also forbade us from having friends older than us (a year or two is fine), playing with neighborhood kids without our family member, going to friends' house for more than an hour or any kind of activity without my parents knowing. During his 46 career as a police officer, he witnessed many cases such as kidnapping, infanticide . many of children were left alone and it happened in a case that the kidnapper was a construction worker near the park where the victim was playing, she was playing, her maid who didn't pay attention to her left her She played away from her and did not care, which led to the kidnapping of the child.
It's been such a long time ago, but I remember my sons and I looking for Maddie. Most of us went right by the house where she was found. I only searched for two days because I was afraid we just might come upon her, and I didn't want my sons to experience that. What her parents went through was unfathomable, and like others, I truly respect Josh's mother as well.
@@aparna603 The amount of people showing up to help find that little girl was huge. I think we all thought the turnout would only be a neighborhood thing, so people came from all parts of Jacksonville volunteered. I remember looking at my sons and I couldn't help but realize the fragility of life, and there was a collective sense of grief among the searchers. We wanted to find that sweet little girl, and stop the nightmare for her family! I'll never forget it.
The Jacksonville community came together beautifully for Maddie, I’ll never forget it. I was but a child and lived in OP at the time so no searching but I watched the news the entire time.
To me it does not make any sense because it is not even like she was hit once but several time and he even stabbed her...I won't even talk about how her short was taken off "by accident". The part that really scared me was when she was under his bed all this time and he just sleep in his bed like nothing is out of ordinary...
im not defending at all, the fear wasnt he had hurt her she wasnt supposed to be in the house at all. 'no friends over without supervision especially girls' was basically the dads rule
What an absolute tower that little boys mother was, to keep her head and do the right thing and inform the police, my heart also goes out to her and the parents of the little girl. So sad to be robbed of life at any age but as young as she was is truly very very tragic.
I have a daughter the same age. Those little feet sticking out, and how she was clutching the bed frame... heart breaking. I hope her killer never sees the light of day.
My dad knew the kids and had to hold himself back when he found out josh killed her, because my older sister was around her age at the time. My dad said if he’s ever let out he’s going to murder him.
Literally gut wrenching hearing that. 😢 My guess is he made sexual advances towards the girl, and killed her so she didn’t tell her parents. One of the saddest stories I’ve heard on here.
Also, he and Maddie weren't just innocent friends. IIRC, Josh had been obsessed with Maddie's older sister and had been engaging in stalker-like behavior towards her (more than what was mentioned here).
It was mostly from Josh’s side of the story though. That is an important fact. But the way it was executed makes a better story. Which sadly engages more people.
Gosh... I remember this like it was yesterday. I live in Jacksonville and my mama owned a hair salon and contacted Maddies mother and they got together and did a fundraiser.. my mama did haircuts all day and we had food and snacks that we bought and sold and gave Maddies Mother every cent we raised that day.. her mother was such a sweet and kind woman despite all she had been through..
"He didn't have a fondness of little girls" Well that, or he just doesn't want his teenage son to be a trash who brought little girl home to test his "curiosity", i have seen or heard cases about teenage boys did or trying to manipulate younger girls to engage in their "curiosity" , i mean if we take a look from the positive perspective his dad might actually be the only reasonable person in his house 🤷🏻♀️
I'm a Jax native, and I remember seeing her missing fliers in my local gymnastics gym on Lennox Ave when I was 7/8 years old. I was so stupid then thinking she ran off, just to find out later what happened to her. I'll never be able to even look at leopard print clothing without thinking of Maddie. Just like the church around the corner from my house where they found little Cherish Periwinkle. Florida is a terrible place, don't come here.
Josh and Maddie were not friends. Both Clifton girls were told by their Dad to stay away from Josh because he had made disturbing comments to the girls.
It’s really sick to even say but. Just because evidence indicates an assault didn’t take place doesn’t mean it didn’t, and it also doesn’t mean the attack wasn’t sexually motivated.
i was thinking this. what were her parents thinking?? i feel like they never even “played baseball” like he said. Josh only brought maddie inside because he already knew what he had planned, he was so paranoid about his parents coming home because he was sexually assaulting her and didn’t want to get caught.
The video already said that the mother was out voting for the elections that day. And her father was at work. Only the grandmother was there to supervise her and possibly her older sister. Please listen carefully to the video before accusing all the members of an already grieving family of neglect.
@@anonview i don’t think that’s what they mean. just in general why are they even letting a 14 year old hangout with a little girl only 8 years old. i understand the parents were usually home when they would “play” but it just seems a little off in the first place. 14 year old boys are curious and immature at that age but also old enough to know what they’re doing. wouldn’t you think he would have some friends his own age he’d want to be playing with?? josh even had a picture of the 12 year old sister in his room. it would be different if it was a cousin or something but nowadays that’s exactly how these things happen in the first place, she needed friends her own age to play with not a 14 year old boy. the dads the only one who actually seemed to understand by not letting him in the house alone with his daughter, no it’s not the parents fault they didn’t know what he was capable of but they also let them hangout together which is weird to me. she may have gotten touched before this specific day, we just don’t know.
Josh had an obsession with Jessie, and Maddie and Jessie were not supposed to be around Josh. Don't blame Maddie's parents, she was not even supposed to be at his home, and she most likely was not even playing baseball with Josh.
@@roseblunt1019 Well, I think that we shouldn't be judging the parents in general because we don't even have any solid fact to judge. First, we don't know if Maddie and Josh had kids their age to play with or not. They might have a bunch of friends already, but Maddie might have agreed to meet up with him because he was the only kid in the neighborhood free at the time. Second, we don't know what specific rules the parents had for Maddie's playtime. What the video did say later on is that the parents told her and her sister not to get too close to Josh. It implies that they already warned her to be careful around the teen. Third, the parents didn't know that a picture of Maddie's sister was in his room until after the investigation. It feels biased and dismissive to conclude something based on personal opinions alone.
I remember when this happened. I had a daughter about the same age as Maddie. It forever changed how I viewed the older kids in the neighborhood that wanted to play with the younger ones. I've also known people who put so much pressure and fear into their kids having friends over in their absence that I do see how one of them could panic if they broke the rules and a kid got hurt, but I don't necessarily believe that's what happened in this case. So very sad and awful.
I don’t believe a word of his story . Everything the father said is what a good father would say . He didn’t listen to his father and look what happened
I never understood what reading about occultism has anything to do with crimes. I've read and studied different occult traditions for over 15 years and have never even come across anything involving harming, let alone killing, people. Even less so in anything written in the past 300 hundred years.
People are afraid of things they don't understand. When something like this happens, innocence being destroyed by a disturbed,broken person, it's hard for people to wrap their heads around. So instead of trying to find and understand what the motivation truly was they want it to just be "evil" and it's very easy to slap a "evil" sticker on anything occult. So simply put it's stupidity and confirmation bias.
I'm not sure, but in an article it stated the particular occult books he was reading contained violent and graphic rituals, there's also the fact he was watching violent porn and was sort of obsessed with Jessie (Maddie's elder sister). I think it depends on the person. Some people who already have a sort of... disposition of selfish sadism and violence...they need a little push, a little inspiration to actually commit such crimes. Is it genetic, is it taught, is it indirectly internalised? Idk. For Josh, maybe he already had a sort of darkness in him; his over bearing father, the graphic occult books, the violent porn, and his obsession with Maddie's sister is the inspiration and motivation he needed to commit those vile acts. Another interesting point is Josh's father didn't want him to play with other kids- especially girls, specifically younger girls- without supervision. Did he somehow know there was something off about his son? Was he just being conservative? Was he a creep himself? Had Josh shown some perverse behaviour the father had seen? Had he assaulted Josh? We'll never know. I find the occult and true crime really fascinating as well, but NEVER have I felt like "acting out". I've heard these cases of violent murderers reading cult stuff and getting inspiration to commit crimes. It makes me feel bad and scared sometimes 😓.
Look up the Satanic Panic. Everything from heavy metal to tabletop games were called evil and satanic and it ended up ruining many people's lives. Multiple daycares and preschools were accused of abusing children in occult rituals. Not a single one proven. The McMartin preschool trial is probably the most famous example. If you feel like being furious, read up on that too.
man i salute josh's mother for telling the police officer about maddie's body , a lot of moms would have kept silent and would have helped their kids to cover up for the sake of their love
I was expecting them to say the father was abusive but no he was just “intimidating” it’s disgusting they tried to blame him, I suspect the boy tried to rape or whatever with maddie and she refused so he killed her, it’s disgusting, I hope the parents had no part in it.
His face at 10:30 is so cold and calculating for being so young. So horrifying to know a psychopath could be anyone anywhere. Sending prayers and thoughts to her family
I remember reading somewhere that two 5 year-olds murdered a toddler intentionally. Looks can be deceiving. Even someone with the most intimidating face and deep voice can have a heart of gold. But someone with the most gentle face are devoid of any heart.
@@sofiarangel1315 I believe that both environmental circumstances and what genetic influence we have determines whether or not people become evil. For example, a person born with a brain that lacks empathy, I can see them being able to commit more atrocities. But for circumstances, I can imagine a normal person raised without the warmth or kindess becoming evil. Or a person given more power it makes them corrupt. Or maybe that person that doesn’t understand the value of life, or even a good person forced in a difficult situation can be evil. It really depends. It takes more than just strong parental figures and a happy childhood to become good. Because when we always get shocked to see people doing the most evil, we forget the value of good. We must not forget that there is truly good people, maybe they have flaws, but deep down in their heart, good. Human goodness, I remember on the news that a 10 year-old girl died saving her siblings from a car. I remember watching firefighters kicking down my neighbor’s door as the fire spread across the house. I watched a video of random people getting together to lift a car to free the person trapped under it. We have to remember that even though there is so much evil, there is also still some good in this world.
I can't see how people wanna blame the father; rules are rules. My step father was the same way, eggshells and rules. Teenagers can be utterly unpredictable, emotional creatures, regardless of gender. I think any parent would agree with not wanting to have a teenage boy alone with a girl, same age or younger. No one knows teen boys better then men who themselves were teens once.
I agree. Don't think their sex or gender really matters here though.. I'd just generally not let a teenager play or hang out with someone younger (or older) unsupervised. Too many things happened to me when I was young that could've been avoided.
I have seen worst than this but this was unexpected twist.btw the boy was a psychopath and he was teenager. And always remember "everyone has their own monster Inside them" And one more "evil is not born, situation make them evil"
This case really gets to me... I couldn't even imagine... Imagine what it must be like to have something like this happen and then you learn all the details and then you go back home and you're faced with the reality that your child was killed at the house next door... So how could you find peace at home anymore? How could you handle having to drive by or see the parents of the kid who killed your child? That's horrible. Like seriously and on top of that, with all the facts that come to light afterwards, you learn that there was a time she was still possibly alive while at the neighbors.. and then the kid hid her there for 6 days, sleeping on the bed covering her. WTF, this is literally the thing of utter catastrophic nightmares. The girl seemed so sweet too, idk why some of the nicest people get taken away by utter trash rat human beings with no soul... Sorry, but it's just frustrating because we've lost so many good hearted people, and then their entire family gets terribly effected and in a way ruined... Because how could that not tarnish your life and passion in some way... Man, I wish we could find ways to save more people... They searched the neighbors house, I wish they could have found her sooner.. even though it might have been too late still.. it's just I wish they searched like their life depends on it... 💔🫂❤️
@@KatherineLaura6564 ebt are you even commenting?? Your disrespectful comments an behaviour is just as disturbing if not more then the crime. Hope people wright ur name an any thing else that identifies you.. No rest no peace will find you. Tell u correct your thinking an attitude. This i place on you. An SO it will be DONE!!
When I was a kid I had teenage neighbors and my mom never ever let me go to their house. My mom wasn’t strict but she is extremely careful and aware of everything. We should allll always be super aware and think of negatives that could happen. I would never let my daughter go to a boys or girls house without parental supervision. We live in a dangerous world.
This made me tear up. I've been sexually abused when I was 11 to 15 years old. Why are people like this? This is unbelievable. All of this because *my mother left me alone* Never leave your children alone with ANYONE! You never know what might go wrong.
I was sexually assaulted by my own cousin at 8 though I do not understand how nobody knew since his room was right next to the living room were my family and his where and also other times my other cousin would be in an out the room cause they shared a room but in those times he never came into the room
I almost got sexually harassed in school by some weird kid, thankfully I avoided it. But even the fact that It almost happened and I didn’t tell anyone still scares me. I can’t imagine the pain the people who actually had it happen has been through.
@@italiantraditionalcatholic2390 no repenting can ever get rid of the blood on his hands. Why would your god even forgive someone who’s done this, anyway?
There is no worse feeling in the world then thinking your kid is missing. And I say that as someone who has been to war more than a couple of time now. I can deal with bad things happening to me. I cannot deal with bad things happening to my kid.
I was in Jax when this happened, as I drove home they were still looking for her. I saw the posters at rest areas as far as Nashville. A few years later we moved there and I got a job where I met her uncle after I learned his last name and put it together. Her dad worked at the same place, super nice people. There was a huge picture of Maddie in the office today reminded me every time I was the there
I remember when this happened. As someone who was born and raised in Jacksonville FL, you never forget this case!! You never forget Maddie or Casey Anthony!
I'm a few years older than him (still a teenager) and I've got cousins her age. It's bizarre for a teenager to choose to hang out with a child so much younger than them. Of course babysitting/supervising them is totally different, but we're not equals, the age gap and the power imbalance is massive, far too much of a difference for there to be a 'friendship'. And like, what does a teenager, who's worried about work, SATs, school, learning to drive, have in common with a kid who's only care in the world are dolls and legos?
Happened about 30 minutes from my house. I was around 13 or 14 years old then. Now every time I go through that area i always think about Maddie and the hell she endured at the hands of someone she considered a "friend"
Poor Maddie. I hope she didn't suffer because she didn't deserve this. Poor mum for Josh as in finding her in her own son's home. Poor Maddie parent's knowing Josh carried out the murder. My heart goes out to both family.
Something not mentioned in this video is that Josh apparently attacked her up to three times because he couldn't kill her successfully the first two times. Poor baby suffered a long time ):
I’m glad the man sent the police right away. It’s a minor so I am sure they are required to by law, but I can just see a dispatcher or a cop saying “just wait, she will turn up, she probably went for a walk or there must be some friend she’s with.” Sadly, that’s often said about adults. I feel so awful for Maddie and for everyone child who has gone missing.
Although no real conclusion has been made I think the evidence is right infront of our faces of what happened .. he definitely tried to maybe sexually assault her and she kept screaming so then hit her .. 1000% Josh’s dad must’ve knew he had a weird obsession with younger girls that right there is a big sign even the mother saying herself he didn’t like it ESPECIALLY girls to be in his home without supervision I think the mum knows what happened too maybe even possibly knew maddie was still alive however waited for her to die so she couldn’t tell her side of the story .. as a mother of your kids randomly spraying and burning in sense burners your gonna know something isn’t quite right especially at that age you’d wouldn’t allow a child to burn candles in their room anyway it would be in the living room etc . Rip Maddie 🤍
There’s so much completely irrational speculation in that comment, but saying his mother “maybe even waited for Maddie to die” is absurd and over the line. And a 14 year old in the 90s not being able to burn candles, let alone incense?? What???
@@drnogueiras8783 As I said it’s just my opinion.. looking at this situation I do definitely think as a mother you would know if your child is hiding a dead body in his bedroom you mean to tell me she didn’t smell the body at all or even see any blood etc ? & yes burning candles and incense sticks no matter if it’s this year or in the 90’S it’s a HAZARD even grown adults panic when it comes to things being lit in the house so it is abit weird how his mother never questioned as to why her son had a shit lot of smelling scents in his bedroom all of a sudden . It may not be true and we may not ever know what happened however from what I’ve studied & from what I’ve seen that is my conclusion personally of what happened , I hope little maddie rests in peace it’s really unfair how she was still alive & the boys mother never heard a single noise ? Come on now
@@skdesignns6171 you don’t have to express every opinion that crosses your mind, especially ones blaming someone who is obviously going to have experienced significant lifelong trauma for something as horrific as you did… and especially when it’s completely irrational because yes, she did see the bodily fluids, that’s when she found the body, and that’s when she immediately and frantically reported it to police. My son is 20, he was absolutely capable of burning a candle at age 14, let alone an incense with no flame (and just the fact that there are occult books and incense holders in the house already tells me this is not an uncommon occurrence, as does having been a teenager myself through the 90s. Blame “the craft”). I would absolutely never smell air fresheners being sprayed in any other bedroom from anywhere else in my house (or think he had murdered someone I’d I did), teenagers are extremely protective of their privacy and bedrooms, and even having plenty of experience with human decomp, I have seen many, MANY others not recognize or even be bothered by the smell when they did. Yes, I know it’s an an opinion, one that I think you should reflect on and reconsider expressing on a public forum. You’re entitled to your opinion, and expressing it when it can be that harmful, but why would you?
@@skdesignns6171 the boys mother wasn’t home, and he said himself that he stabbed her before his parents returned. Maybe you just missed a lot of info, but damn.
I think that would have been in the police report...They do a complete forensic autopsy including signs of sexual assault particularly in homicide investigations. It seems to me like Josh has some form of developmental disorder in which makes him behave like a kid therefor playing with kids. I don't think he was ever attracted to kids at all. I 100% believe the baseball story. A baseball hit would be so hard to prove on such autopsy especially if it was a light hit but kids are really sensitive and will cry at the littlest tap. It's possible to be hit by a baseball and sustain no such injuries.
Maddie Clifton attended San Jose Catholic Elementary, where my mother and her siblings, as well as me and my siblings atteneded/are currently attending. My aunt Sarah was best friends with Maddie, and according to my grandmother, everyone from San Jose school was searching for her. I think this is a sick case, and my aunt wouldn’t recover for years later.
I agree. For what it’s worth, I subscribe to some bloody great story tellers who research to the enth degree. Congratulations, love everything about your channel 👌
Don't let him out, alot is to be said for what goes unsaid about this case. This murder won't be his last, next time he will do his best not to get caught.
I refuse to believe Josh "was just a normal kid" before they found out. There's probably signs and behaviour that in retrospect made more sense to his true nature.
I remember this case being on the news like it was yesterday. It saddened me back then and it still saddens me today, more than 20 years later. She was about my age, so that made it hit even harder. Such a tragic case
I hate to say it, but I rewound when it said a 14 year old boy who was close friends with an 8 year old girl and the last person to see her alive… I would absolutely not have considered him “the most unsuspecting person”
Your cases are always such well researched and narrated, not to mention just an excellent quality. Thank you so much for all the time and effort it must entail.
This video was excellent. But if you want some more context I suggest Eleanor Neale‘s video. It discusses the relationship he had with Maddys older sister which seems kind of important to the case and the fact that not only was he not supposed to have people home when his parents were around but he wasn’t supposed to talk to her or her family at all because of a past incident.
Yeah, she goes more into detail and it’s really much more informative. Eleanor is my go to true crime TH-camr because I love how informative and detail-oriented she is
Respect to the mom for reporting her own son for what he had done, that must’ve been hard. I’ve unfortunately also heard way many cases of the parents of murderers, especially their mothers, just sticking on the side of their child.
@@Aiko_63194nd honestly, it’s parents who cover for their young AND adult children. Adult! Like I’m their 40s and they cover for them and forbid relatives from coming forward to the police. I just watched a Dateline with my mother where this old bitch was interviewed and caught lying but they couldn’t find out who killed this girl. Her son had been a suspected in killing her, she was his ex wife. Then ten years later the ex-husband’s brother came forward to say that he had been forbidden from telling but that his brother had confessed to their mother. THEIR MOTHER THE OLD LYING BITCH. That he’d killed someone and she covered for him and forced the brother to keep silent. Now that she was dead, he’d finally come forward. A decade of waiting. A decade of that ex-husband telling their children he didn’t know who killed their mother.
Well I'm about to leave for the Dr to start chemo, this is exactly what I need for my drive. Love you raven and everyone, please be safe and bless you all.
I live in Jacksonville and vividly remember this case. During a Sunday Jacksonville Jaguar game, during half time they had a Navy flyover in the “missing man” formation to honor Maddie. She was found just days later.
Whoever’s ‘running the show’ seriously has this on lockdown because these are television quality productions. You guys are even making your own cut scenes it seems like!
You have 143 👍🏼 that means we luv your comment! ❤️
@CimarronWay it is not over produced trash. It is actually highlighting the possible danger there might have been during lock down when COVID-19 hit
@CimarronWay why are you here watching it and reading and responding to the comments then? Most people don’t pay attention to things they don’t like.
@CimarronWay lol I can see that you’re a very unhappy individual. I hope you feel better soon as I continue to enjoy my life, not hating anyone. ☺️
@CimarronWay you my friend are so amazing!! I love how you trash talk anything and everything just to get a reaction *THEN* you trash talk *THAT* simply brilliant! You should quit your day job and just sit on the computer making a complete ass of yourself whilst wasting your time doing and watching "lame things". No seriously, you have reached the pinnacle of your trolling career 👋
No where left to go now but up 😎
Imagine being the mother of the boy who did this and finding his victim under your sons bed and realizing your own son is very sick...damn
There was one video where teens (1 ring leader and the rest followed/went along but no one stopped the murder) killed another teen... and having 2 great teenagers in the house it hit me so hard, from both sides trying to put myself in the parents shoes... I still don't know for sure which would be worse :( knowing your precious child was murdered, or knowing your child WAS the murderer...
...there were no real clues/signs leading up to it, all of them, including the victim were hanging out in the same group, being normal teens and rebeling a little, smoking weed... but all had had decent upbringings otherwise.
So much tragedy in this world.
Imagine being a sheep to a mother of the boy who's a sheep
You spelt your name wrong you mistyped a 'd' instead of a 'p'
@@silencelambs1238 huh?
@@silencelambs1238 if you’re insinuating having empathy for someone who learned their teenage child had done horrific things and had to be the one to tell the police what she had found is somehow a problem you need help. Seeing the body alone must’ve been so traumatizing for her, let alone having to come to terms with her son being the one who had caused it.
As a Father, coming home to find my daughter missing or hurt is my greatest nightmare... my heart breaks for them!
I understand you brother. If something like that happened, my life would be dedicated to find the responsible party and kill them, I wouldn't have it any other way, I couldn't.
But I admit I couldn't do that to a murderous child.
This is why I'm not having children, they're at risk of so many horrible things, I couldn't bear the guilt
@@isabel.bolivia same. this kind of fear, i would not be able to handle
@@isabel.bolivia understandable but life is about taking risks, there are so many dangers to basic day to day things we do. Don’t let fear stop you from feeling the love of holding your own child
Why did you capitalize father and not daughter? That like a ego thing
Josh's dad was right about no kids in house when he wasn't there, espec young girls. Wonder if he saw something in his son to warrant his tight reign
Same thing I thought 😬
I definitely didn't think about it. But now I can't not think that may be true. Especially with looking at some violent adult stuff.
Yes! I heard in another podcast that Josh displayed concerning aggressive behavior and that Maddie's parents no longer allowed her to spend time alone with Josh. It's suspected he tricked her into coming into his house, suggesting he premeditated harming Maddie.
Or maybe there was something wrong with the family, specifically the father and we confuse the cause with the consequence. It's an odd rule.
@@hovnocuc4551 it may seem an odd rule now days but when I was a kid we werent allowed to have kids in while both parents were gone as did most of our neighbors. The specific rule about girls is understandable if a boy was maybe girl crazy and visa versa with girls being boy crazy. He was around the age when tweens start noticing the opposite gender. Not saying this boy wasn't showing disturbing signs but it's plausible 🤷🏼♀️ btw I'm 51 so yeah I grew up at a time when kids had rules.. well most kids 🙃
Josh’s dad was 100% correct for trying to keep his son under supervision, i mean look at what the hell happened when no one was home! Cant believe they tried to say his father was intimidating and thats why he did it, that sounds so ridiculous if he was so scared of his father he wouldnt have allowed maddie over. Josh was a sick kid and im glad hes put away for good without parol
No profanity please. Rhonda
@@newtonphillips8888 a child was murdered and your worried about fucking profanity??
Agreed!! My parents treat me exactly the same as Josh’s dad, if I had been in Josh’s shoes I would have turned her away and told her to come back when my parents where home
You realise the “intimidating” part is probably more than just not letting people over. What’s more likely is consistent acts of domestic abuse that only the family would really be able to share.
@@newtonphillips8888 - We're not in kindergarten. Also, don't sign your posts -- you're not that important.
I just want to applaud Maddie's mother for remaining incredibly calm and stable during the 9-1-1 call. That is an incredible feat right there.
I’m not gonna lie, I was thinking how I would be blabbering with tears and snot and panic, she is an impressive find my child mom
@@TheDramacist she'd probably give it if prompted, but she was holding it together rather well considering the circumstances and answered the questions without much difficulty. If you listen to other calls from similar situations it's often close to impossible to understand what the caller is saying, it's how we react to extreme situations and it's very hard to fight through the flood of adrenaline.
She didn't even know what her daughter was wearing. Also why was she letting her 8 year old daughter play with a 14 year old boy? Doesn't seem like a great parent.
@@yo_eddie2576 yes let's just keep children locked inside the house... Clearly her mom (Maddy's grandmother) was home and she didnt just leave her alone with a neighborhood kid (who was well known and a good friend of Maddy's and probably the family).
I don't think anyone can just assume that a little kid would harm your child like in the video. Smh, you have hindsight. Don't mistake it as wisdom or knowledge
??? if you played that audio and removed the context, no one would describe that person as calm. she sounded frantic. understandably so.
relative to the horror that was unfolding she was coherent, but they didnt know how serious it was then and the mind can desperately cling to normalcy and downplay the situation
Idk why people were so weird about the dad not allowing his kids to have friends over without parents home. That was a rule we had as kids and it makes complete sense in my eyes. You don't know what kids will do unsupervised, sometimes kids play more rough without supervision and one can get hurt. Like you just never know what might happen so it's best not to have them over without parent supervision or permission
I agree. I am 25 now and even today if friends are coming to my home, they can only come when mom or dad is there. Its not that they dont trust me. Its bcz they dont know what other ppl are capable of.
@@lachiborara7219 What??? You're 25! Or was that a typo?
Also, because playing inside one's house means making a mess😂
We have different cultures guys, not everyone in the globe moves out of the house when they turn 18 or something. They only get to move out when college is far away or they're getting married.
@@ryuugaeisen8946 I'm from India. We live with our parents for life. Doesn't mean our parents dictate our social life and "permit" us to meet others solely in their presence. Lol And it's not 18, this person said "25".
My parents wouldn't let my brother and I hang out with the "older kids" in our neighborhood when we were growing up for this exact reason. They might be kids but teenagers are still capable of truly awful things. Especially when they're devoid of any empathy or impulse control.
your parents were correct, I ran around freely and am honestly surprised that I survived childhood. just one example: was walking with my best friend at the time and her older boyfriend who loved to pick on me, as I was passing a stop sign, he grabbed my tiny head and and slammed it into the pole, laughed and kept walking. I literally saw stars spinning like in looney tunes. my "best friend" laughed too and we all kept walking and i just focused on not crying.
@@soft_machine_ 😢
Devoid of empathy? What does that even mean
@@Lilith816 devoid means lacking, or without.
@@Lilith816 Google is a totally free service. Try it out sometime.
Mad respect for Josh's mother for turning him in!!!!! She could have easily helped him disappear all the evidence and no one would have ever suspected him. THANK YOU, BRAVE HEROINE!!
It’s so incredibly terrifying how common it is for parents to help erase their children’s footsteps when they murder someone.
@@identifyhasbeenstolen5027 It is! It requires a whole new level of human being, with real integrity and kindness...
@@identifyhasbeenstolen5027Right? The other cases that have shown parents (of their young OR fully adult children) helping them hide their crime has become ridiculous. Eventually my mom turned to me while we were watching a Dateline and said ‘If you do something like that, I’m not covering anything for it. You need to turn yourself in.’
I just nodded. I don’t even think I needed to because she knew I supported that.
Wow I didn’t even think of that, however this comment is soo true. His mom could easily have created a serial r*pist/killer I she didn’t turn him in. Kudos to her for doing the right thing, despite it ruining her world.
I think one of many brave things someone can do is turn in a loved one that committed a crime and she did just that.
That poor little girl, I can’t imagine the fear she felt as she was going through those horrible things! The worry in her Mother’s voice just breaks my heart.
@Sky Gardener but the little girl told her mom that she was playing around the house...and they both are neighbours...she clearly didn't lie. Please don't defend that psychopath like that..
@Sky Gardener yeah. You're right...i guess assuming what was said in the video that they boy seemed quiet and friendly, no one would have thought he was capable of...this
There are two types of people on this world......
One who fantasize beautiful women and do such action which may harm them..... Most boys do when they hit puberty
The other half change quickly after their parents give them good councilling or they encounter something similar including young boys
Sorry but true he sexually assaulted Maddie..... I can read his mind clearly
Really sorry sorry sorry
there's a podcast where maddie's sister, jessica, who was 11 at the time, discusses the misconceptions of this case and really brings some light to some topics. i recommend it
Stabbing 9 times
Cutting Throat
Tying her up
Removing clothes
Discovering her alive and again stabbing her.
Sleeping on her body for Weeks.
This guy is a Psycholath! Not a kid!
I can't believe this,Josh was so scared of his father that he murdered someone, a terrible made-up story. This child is dangerous even to adults. I salute Josh's mother for exposing her own son, which is commendable, and the right thing.
I can't agree more with you. It was the right and honorable thing for her to do!
My gut tells me that it wasn't really Josh's father being "intimidating" that was the issue. To me, it's absolutely reasonable for him to not want his son to be alone with a girl unsupervised, especially a girl who was just over half of Josh's age (remember, Josh was 14, and Maddie was 8). Especially since teenagers are at a very hormonal stage of their development while also lacking the kind of self-control and restraint that a mature adult would/should have, so it's safer to have an adult around to supervise just in case something ever went wrong or one of the kids started to cross a line.
But at the end of the day, I see Josh as little more than a narcissistic sociopath who doesn't really care about what he did to Maddie, only about what he himself is going through. I don't like to say this about someone who was a kid at the time, but I don't think Josh is anything other than a monster. And there's also the fact that there were signs of Josh having an obsession with Maddie's older sister, which I take as a bad sign, as I suspect that had Josh not been discovered when he did, it may not have taken that much longer for him to then go after Maddie's sister.
I do give his mother credit for alerting the police when she learned the truth, however. That could not have been easy to do, to both know that your own son was a monster and a murderer, and that the little girl you had been trying to help your neighbors find had been hidden in your own house the entire time, and that it was up to you to reveal the truth and give Maddie's family some semblance of closure so that they at least knew where she was and what had happened to her....painful as it might have been.
I mean.. I could see it a little. Abuse can do a number on you but my guess is he had something wrong with him already and his father made it worse, plus being a scared hormonal irrational teen.
Narcissism is inherited. He likely got it from his father. But considering that it was more of a premeditated murder it's pretty hard to believe that's the sole reason. I think the fear in the interview was the fear of being put behind bars and only regretting that he's in trouble. Again narcissist. He definitely needs to be behind bars regardless.
@@gamester512 right, ir seems that he already wanted to do this to a girl, like it says in the video, that kid seems to be a psychopath, he lied many times and didn't care to go to sleep with a body under his bed, thats fucked up
@@gamester512 i agree that it was good he was caught when he was. i dont think he would have stopped there if he wasn't caught to be honest.
I feel terribly sorry for josh’s mother, it must have been hard to realize that it was all her son’s doing, the fact that she has been raising a monster is horrifying
Yes it's terrifying 💀
@@anarup916
you really shouldn’t have used that emoji 😕
Calm down its just an emoji
@@xander6153
uh I’m fine I’m just saying that emoji really wasn’t it
throw away josh in the ocean
Whoever the man is voicing these videos is actually amazing. It's crazy how much he makes me focus and break down things. Need a whole crime podcast with just his voice.
It's an AI generated voice.
@@northbaseuk882wrong. His name is Russell Archey
Russell Archey 👍
Russell Archey 👍
Russell Archey
The father had strict rules probably because he knew his son showed characteristics of a psychopath.
RIP to the little girl.
She is RIP! That's what dead people do, dummy.
The dad was a hapless drunk and abuser.
@@joaquimrodriguez8961 I pity you🙂
@@joaquimrodriguez8961 the hell was that for
@@joaquimrodriguez8961 bro RIP mean "riposa in pace" which means relax in peace....what do you think she meant!
I feel like the dad knew something was up with his kid and that's why he didn't want him alone with little girls.
He had something against little girls.
OMG TRUE
@@joaquimrodriguez8961 He was protecting the girls? You should never leave little girls alone with older men.
@@Epiiphqny-d3d Not just older men. Older kids in general. Even kids their age can be really dangerous, unfortunately applies to other family members as well. It's always best to make sure the kid is *really* safe with someone you know for sure you can trust.
@@zesranehajzle1707 Ik but when I said older men I meant someone who's just a bit older. 8,9 10 stuff like that. And yeah you shouldn't leave your young children or teenagers with someone you don't trust. Female,male, cousin sister brother.
Seems to me that Josh’s dad knew something about his son that nobody else did , cause look at what happened to Maddie when he wasn’t watching over him. Also good job to Josh’s mom for getting a police officer to go and look at what she found , instead of trying to cover it up and helping Josh. May Maddie Rest In Peace 💙
bro if i were her, I would've freaked out too and called the police asap 🗿 no way am i going to live under the same roof as a potential violent psychopath
Actually Josh’s father was an alcoholic and a drug addict, and both Josh and his mother attest that he was incredibly abusive. Josh’s side of the story is that he was so afraid of his abusive father that he’d rather murder a girl to cover up the fact he played with a girl from his dad.
Now whether or not that’s the truth behind his killing of her is up in the air, but it’s certainly true that his father was a pretty terrible person. Most serial killers usually have at least one abusive parent
@@jwanacena8704 it might have also been her husband. She wouldn't know what to believe. It was right to call the cops.
It’s pretty normal to not want your kids playing with other kids unsupervised though, if someone gets hurt playing a little rough it’s hard to know whose to blame. It also means the kids are free to do stupid things
kpop sucks
I want to salute Josh’s father for trying everything he could while alive, to prevent his son from harming other children. I wish he had been alive to reveal what exactly made him suspect his own son was a potential risk to society. The fact that he was ‘intimidating’ according to Josh’s mother only makes me think that perhaps he was not only trying to keep his son at bay for other children but to protect himself. Maybe he saw Josh watching extremely disturbing content on the internet, maybe he was violent towards animals… you know, the kind of behavior that normally raises the alarms, or he found Josh’s journal/diary where he expressed his deviant feelings. I don’t know about anyone else but Josh’s mother on the other hand seemed way too oblivious or candid…
Lesson never learned. Dont leave your children alone with gadgets. Don't use gadgets as nanny.
I felt this way as well when listening to this story.
Kid might have saw examples of his father being abusive in his own home and felt powerless. Fetishizing it may have been a form of coping and taking control of his fears.
@@CertifiedClapaholic what are you implying here? 🤨
You’re assuming his dad had these rules because he knew his son was a potential murderer? And then saluting him for it?? For doing nothing to actually get his son help? That’s a yikes from me all around. What a terrible opinion.
1) Not having other people over when home alone is a normal rule most kids (should) have
2) It’s clearly indicative (to me) that his dad wasn’t just “intimidating”, but rather potentially abusive. Know the warning signs to look out for!
It’s doesn’t make Josh innocent or excuse what he did, but dang please try to learn to spot potential abuse in a household… or at least don’t salute parents who you think know their children are messed up but do not nothing about it.
The father was completely right, why would you let your teenage son hang out with little girls? That just seems so weird.
Correct, no one is to be trusted even ur own parents, everyone should be on high alert to everyone !
exactly!!!!!
some facts in this are wrong! they weren’t friends and neither parents wanted them to be around each other
Since they are both children, a lot of people will probably see it as innocent, and cute that they play baseball together. I personally wouldn't allow it, but I can see why people wouldn't necessarily think of it as weird.
It's not THAT weird, depending on setting and circumstance. We see this kind of thing with siblings all the time. Big brothers often have a soft spot for their little sisters and will play games with them. The same thing happens between cousins with an age gap and less frequently with unrelated children. It's all perfectly healthy on the face of it, though of course there are a fringe minority of terrible monsters who will exploit these relationships.
My entire respect went to Josh's mom though. A lot of mothers would do anything to protect their child, even from crime. A mother would help their child bury a body if it meant their child would be okay but she did the right thing and reported to the police. That's incredible
(Edit)
I am so confused on why a lot of people are offended lmao. Yall literally getting mad for no reason.
If you all need further proof, try searching for the latest case, which is Tristyn Bailey's murder case back in 2021. A 13 year old girl who was dragged into the woods by a 14 year old boy and was stabbed 114 times because she was refusing his advances. Then his MOTHER was allegedly seen in a surveillance footage, washing the blood off his jeans. She was charged for tampering with evidence. It's real. Mother's can also be monsters when it comes to their kids. Stop living in a bubble of "everyone is good". The fact that you even watch this video is proof that there are horrible humans out there
No offense but you kinda look like Josh lol
Josh's mum did what the majority of decent parents would do
Agreed, I cant even imagine. Being able to immediately go find an officer is a strength I hope to have. So heartbreaking for all the parents in this case
@Sky Gardener ?
@Sky Gardener i mean is the last part that bad to do (I don’t burn incense so I wouldn’t know) ?
He 100% fantasied about doing this, he had a whole cover story ready, and had a bunch of air fresheners and incenses at his disposal. As a teenager I would never hang out with anyone even 2 years younger than me deliberately, that age difference was the first red flag.
Agreed, this case is too sad, we never know someone entirely.
Nah cause I’m literally being harassed rn by someone two years older than me. This shits terrible
@@kendrali9799 im sorry :( hope you can get away from them
Yeah, I'm a teenager and hanging out with someone 6 years younger than me is a massive age gap. When you're in your 20's and up it's not much different, but when you're a teenager that's a literal child, an elementary school kid. I have nothing in common with them. Of course I'll babysit and supervise for family friends, but choosing to hangout with an 8 year old out of my own volition is something I would never do.
Your thoughts are extremely disgusting
I’m shocked by the fact that josh blamed his actions on his father and his father was right not allowing his child to play with girls younger than him. The dad obviously knew what other people didn’t what a creep that boy is and I wouldn’t ever ever let him back out with the public!
You'd be surprised how much fear a father can instill in their son when he is a physical disciplinarian, I know from personal experience at that age how intimating they can be to the point they don't even want to go home after school just because of a less than satisfactory school report card etc, it's terrifying to a 13 or 14 year old kid
Typical in narcissist people, always blaming others.
It's not a stretch in my opinion to believe he was abused himself. Its not often that children raised in loving, supportive households go on to commit murder, especially less so as a child on another child. Its far more common to see abused children do stuff like this, and perpetuate the cycle of abuse.
For a minor to do something like this, I can only assume there was something else going on at home. But I guess we will never truly know.
@@pauljones8801maybe he wasn't intimidating and you just did stuff you knew he didn't like
I remember seeing this case on Killer Kids, truly heartbreaking! It’s really suspish that the Dad didn’t want him to hang around little girls without supervision, I feel like he knew there was something wrong with Joshua. By the way, you are hands down one of the best true crime narrator out there. Thank you for all your hard work.
I agree. But I also don't think it's a super great idea to be letting a 14 year old boy hang out alone with a 10 year old girl he has no relation to. I'm not saying boys that age are like Josh but regardless if I had a daughter she would not be allowed to play alone with a hormonal boy. It's not their fault but regardless, not a great idea. And I sure as hell wouldn't let my son play alone at that age with younger girls knowing where boys typically are by that age if you get what I'm saying without being graphic. Boys like Josh are rare, sure, but always better to be safe.
@@amandaloveless4369 my cousin was 6 and SA’d by a 9 yr and old. I don’t let my kid play alone with anybody kid no matter age or sex, u never know a kids history home life or issues. My friends kid got SA’d and sad , not her fault but I don’t need them telling my kid about it
As a father I wouldn’t want my boy playing with little girls without supervision either that’s just common sense parenting.
@@wanderlust1229 exactly, that's one of the worst things ever and I'm sorry to hear that. I know how incredibly common it is. Alot of times abused/sexually abused kids end up doing it themselves to someone else. Such a sad and tragic cycle of abuse.
@@drewskifilmz3401 same, I would never allow my son to either.
As someone who was severely secually abused by a teenage boy, NEVER LEAVE YOUR 8 YEAR OLD DAUGHTER WITH A TEENAGE BOY AND DO NOT LET AN INAPPROPRIATE FRIENDSHIP EXIST
so true!! me and my younger sister were both se*ually harrassed by teenage boys in our neighborhood, i was 13 and she was 8 at the time
Unbelievable what teenage boys are capable of!
@@spiritworld9661 yes! Only the father of this boy had any damn sense.
@@sagegauss true, some people kinda blame the dad for having strict rules about having kids in the house unsupervised, but potential killer or not, children still need to be supervised just to make sure they're safe.
Exactly 8 year olds shouldn't be playing with older teens. Happens to boys and girls.
Teenagers in general, especially if the parents themselves NEVER seen or heard of them
I’m glad his mom did the right thing and didn’t hide or cover up what happened to protect him from the consequences.
Yeah usually the parents will either keep it a secret to cover it up or they just won't believe it and take their kid's side sad that most parents can be in denial about that and don't want to believe that their kid could do something horrific
Glad she had the ovaries to tell the police about the crime that his son did.
Yah, most people wouldn't have the balls too tell the police. He did something horrible and definitely lied about most things, dad was right about everything
Considering what Josh did, you can certainly understand why his dad had a rule that Josh was not allowed to be around other kids without adult supervision.
The fact that he was able to mask everything from his emotions to the air fresheners is insane, this is more than a child being afraid of his parent this is a stone cold killer. I remember hearing about this story awhile ago feeling both sad for Maddie and Josh but now I know that had he gotten away with killing her there definitely could've been another victim the older he got. I'm not sorry for him, his father was right to not have friends over when they're not there to supervise. I give props to the mother for reporting her son as well, it must've been extremely hard considering that that's her baby.
Why would you EVER feel sorry for him?
@@Fuzzysea693 I hadn't known the full complete story at the time! Someone on tiktok did a short summary on it and didn't really add any other details but the fact he was afraid of what his father might have done to him, which murder still isn't a good reason obviously but having only that piece of information only made me think that had his father not been shitty he definitely wouldn't react as bad as he did (Which again was an assumption that the father was to blame because they barely gave any detail to the case), watching this short documentary however made it even more obvious that regardless of his father's behavior there was most definitely something wrong with him to begin with, he's a cold blooded killer just like any other true crime case came to be.
In my personal opinion, there is no ‘sorry’ feelings for those who by any circumstances can try to end someones life, though, be afraid for their own. As if other people are not ‘people’ and only the killer is. I really hope he will die in prison and will never hurt anyone again.
Just look him in the eyes… they are deadly empty. No humanity.
This lack of emotion and the fact he tried to hide it shows Josh is a complete sociopath and needs to be locked up to keep other people safe.
A 14 year old is 100% aware of their actions…. That poor girl… she did not deserve to die by this monster…
Please keep an eye on who your children are hanging around. I get it, you can’t watch your kids 24/7 but an 8 year old and a 14 year old being friends is not ideal..
I really wished that his father was alive to give his side of the story. He obviously knew something about his son.
It’s quite possible that Josh’s father didn’t want other children in his house unsupervised because he knew Josh would likely do something to them.
I don't understand...when i was 14, i used to play with kids around the neighborhood, but how can someone think of a kid in such a sickening manner.... that's horrible...
@@ritusingh8578 Exactly. When you’re 14, you are very aware of your actions. This kid had something wrong with him.
@@MisterMicrowaves absolutely. He's probably a psychopath...because no one normal can do this to someone and be unaffected..
A lot of teens dont really understand death. This is not an excuse by any stretch of the imagination. This boy is 100% responsible for his actions and should pay the ultimate price for being a monster. But i do know many lucid and intelligent teenagers who still dont understand the finality of death. I think this is a major contributor to teen suicide
I would NEVER let my 8 year old daughter play with a 14 year old boy, especially not alone!! That just is NOT right. I'm so sorry for what happened, may she rest in peace. 🙏🏽
Psychopathy does not affect everyone and there is no fixed age either for the victim or for the psychopath. Attention and care is the only weapon we have against this evil.
Seriously, yes there were a lot of things wrong here but I'm surprised more people aren't shocked at an 8 year old girl playing with a non-relative teenage boy
Guys they are neighbours, there's nothing wrong with playing baseball with an older person.
@@arcjan hard disagree. My mum let me “play” unsupervised with my teenage neighbours when I was between the ages of 5 and 8 (I can’t quite remember the age of everyone involved because it was so long ago). The boy (between 13 and 16) $e*ua||¥ assaulted me and the girl (17 or 18) forced me to smoke cigarettes while taking photos and laughing with her friends. Over 20 years later and I’m still completely traumatised and mental ill as a result.
@@arcjan and if all they want to do is play baseball then they shouldn't have any issue with waiting until they can be supervised. Children have legal guardians for a reason.
Ummmm so they walked on egg shells around the dad because he had strict rules like not wanting any kids over in his house when no adult was present and he didn't like his son playing with girls younger then him. Those restrictions should be in every household. For starters, the age gap between Josh and this poor young girl was too large. Why in the world would anyone find it appropriate for the 2 to be playing together? Obviously, those strict rules are put into place for good reason. After all, look what happened when Josh had a girl younger than him over his house without his parents' home. I offer prayers to this young girls' parents!
I'm guessing the egg shells were from abuse, not rules.
There's nothing wrong with a 14-year-old and an eight-year-old being friends, at least on its face. What happened here is only a single example.
@@kathrynhoward4196 wasn't he 16?
@@bleep4288 He was fourteen at the time of the murder. He was sixteen when he went on trial and was convicted.
@@kathrynhoward4196 Even then, it's still wrong to partner up a teen with a literal kid. Got first hand experience. Never let your kids play/"hangout" above/below their age group with proper adult supervision. But even with all that, shit happens.
I can't imagine what it's like to be Maddie's sister knowing that she was the initial target. Not only would that leave her paranoid, but I bet she'd feel guilt knowing that her younger sister wasn't even the target in the first place. The circumstances just happened to line up for that sick kid who killed her. I hope each family can find peace because this is such a tragic case for all parties involved (excluding Josh).
Didn’t they only find that out at the re-trial in 2017?
Like yeah it’s a terrible thing to learn no matter how old, but I can’t imagine you would be as paranoid now as you would back then
@@ZovixiI’m not sure but regardless, the sister would have been present for the trials
This is such a sad and tragic story. What she went through was nothing short of horrifying. Joshua should never be able to get out of prison ever. Thank you Ewu for covering this tragic story. My deepest condolences go out to the family and loved ones. 🙏😪
Right!
Throw away the Keys!!! Not safe among him!
@@mikelee3524 yes sir
@@williamsummerson1204 ✌😎
I wouldn't say a life sentence for a 14 year old there have been many cases of these disgusting monsters changing for the better
Still a disgusting crime and he should be harshly punished
Huge respect for the mother, she remained coherent and communicated the situation well to dispatch even while clearly extremely distressed and panicked.
Josh may have been "intimidated" by his father, but he has not even a single right to blame his father OR his so called "panic attack". It's horrifying how people can be influenced but such videos. Hopefully, josh will understand that he deserves his life-in-prison sentence , and accepts his punishment.
edit:
Thank you for agreeing with me.
Plus, it makes no sense. He was so intimidated he undressed the moment he got the chance? Strange.
@@ericme4767 exactly, and the first thought he had was to hit her with a *bat* to get her stop crying?? not take her back to her family when theyre just across the street? you can definitely tell a 14 yo came up with that
@@ericme4767 also like most people have strict parent, that doesn't mean that they're horrible parents and neither do normal people go around killing people in panic, tf.
@@ericme4767 It was an excuse created by his legal team. If he was so afraid he wouldn't have brought home someone who could have caused his father to get angry in the first place. How dragging someone inside yout home to help goes to beating and stabing to make them shut up.
@Seph X he was born an innocent boy. maybe he had underlying mental instability but that can be recognized and treated. the neglect throughout his childhood made him capable of doing what he did.
He brought her in to “play” tried to touch her and she maybe screamed or tried to leave and he hit her to keep her from telling anyone. That’s what I’m catching on.
He prolly wanted some sexual and she refused so then he murdered her. It's awful how even kids can be evil creatures nowadays
@@HristinaNicole they always had the ability to be a devil especially in their teenage phase
While I don't doubt that the killer's father was abusive, maybe he had a good reason for forbidding young girls from visiting Josh unsupervised. Something may have happened before Maddie's death with another child, or he may have caught him viewing that violent CP on his computer.
Probably caught him watching the porn.
Yeah like assholes are making fun of parents rules of just SIMPLE supervision. Thats why they all grow up horribly they had super loose parents
Perhaps it was maybe their specific Clifton family because if he had noticed the picture of Jesse that he had, the father of course wouldn’t want his son to be alone with any of the sisters for THEIR safety
They said no semen was found on her.
He panicked and killed her.
@@theresekatie4841 Just because there was no semen found on her doesn’t mean that the murder wasn’t sexually motivated. He could have released somewhere else or even just getting satisfaction without finishing. Idk. It seems sexually motivated to me but that doesn’t mean that it definitely was.
Many young girls reported the first time they were molested or raped was either by a brother or their brother’s friends. Yeah, you don’t let other kids over to your house when the parents are gone and you certainly don’t let older boys play with little girls.
Oh my god, that is a disturbing fact 😢
I agree to this. But its curious as to what really went down. Because they did check for assault but nothing came back as he did any sexual acts on her.
I remember when I was a 911 dispatcher I had a woman call saying she thought her 3yr old daughter was missing. She went in her garage & found her 14yr old son with his little sister on his lap and he was SA her. This lady wanted me to stay on the phone with her because she said if not she would kill her son because her baby girl was not even crying as if this wasn't the first time he had SA'd her. Then she said her 5yr old son was saying his 14yr old brother had did something to his butt. Mom said she just thought the 5yr old didn't know what he was saying. She was like now idk if he has done anything to sons. It was so heartbreaking. She kept asking me how do you protect your kids from your own kids?!! My point is you even have to watch how your own kids interact with each other, not just with outside strangers.
Ugh, that's absolutely sickening. I'm sorry you had to take that call. 911 operators must go through so much trauma on the job. It's also incredibly disturbing how common children SA other children, even siblings. It's such a taboo topic that no one wants to acknowledge. I've heard people say that it usually means the perpetrator was SA'd themselves, but I have to wonder if that's really the case every time. I think just being exposed to porn at a young age can enough to warp some kids into being predators. Not saying that's the case for every child that gets exposed to it at a young age but it's disturbing to think about considering how easily accessible it is on the internet and how little parents monitor their kid's internet use these days.
Tbh it’s unfortunate the mother couldn’t kill her 14 year old son because you know he’ll never stop trying to assault actual children.
a huge number of adolescent boys 8-13 are watching porn, and these types of events are more comment than people think. They used to say that a child molesting younger children is a telltale sign that that child was molested themselves and just repeating learned-behavior; not anymore. They're learning that behavior from somewhere else now.
I was SA'd as a 18 month old by my teenage neighbor, who babysat me; years later is came out that he had been doing the same thing to both of his younger half-brothers from his mom's second marriage, and had been doing so for most of their lives. My case was never reported, though I told my mother, but my mom was friends with his Dad/parents.
Can't imagine what I would do as a mom if that was my kid; the only option you'd have would just to relinquish them to the state or juvi
:(
@@bevs9995 this is horrifying. Your abuse is just as valid as theirs. That person should have been sentenced to death imo.
What they did is unforgivable.
And your parents should also have been more careful and taken some of the responsability that happened to you.
I grew up in Jacksonville and am around the same age Maddie was (at the time, obviously). This case absolutely shook our city. Murder happens a lot in Jax, but this was an entirely different level.
Same. I was born and raised and still live in Jax. This was absolutely tragic.
I too am the same age, born in 1990 and was 8 years old at the time... My dad would show me this on the news, telling me not to trust anybody and never let a sibling go anywhere alone
Born and raised in Jax, but I was only 2 when this happened.
I was born 3 years after this happened
is disgusting that Josh’s mother was going along with Josh’s lies that the father was a tyrant . Josh’s FATHER was the only responsible person in that family . He was💯 right that Josh should not be allowed to have children over without adult supervision . I agree with the father that a teenage boy should not be hanging around with a little girl . Did no-one think it odd apart from Josh’s father ? WHY WAS 8 year old Maddie hanging out with 14 year old teenager Josh?
Teenage boys can get curious but usually with girls who are developed not children . I believe Josh’s next target would have been Maddie’s sister .
I believe Some people are born talented , some extra good and some are born Evil. . I believe Josh is born evil . He lacks empathy and compassion for others . I hope he’s not released next year . He’s a danger to young girls and women. I believe if he’s released he will m.urder again .
The appeal is not about releasing him (God forbid....), but about reducing his sentence from life in prison to 40 years, meaning he will be in his mid 50s when he gets out. Now let'S think logically, what perspective, emotional and psychological sanity can a 55 years old man that grew up and became a man in prison can have? He seems to underestimate the life outside after such a long sentence ; and the ones who fight for him as well. That is a recipe for disaster in most cases...
Its vile that they demonized joshs dad who was the only responsible adult in the house. Rip maddie and joshs dad...
@@adzreenaziz6255 I think they used it as a strategy in trying to get a milder sentence for him. Sometimes juries fall for such a sob story. Even if the guy was strict (they never claimed or proved he was an abuser), that was no reason to kill another human being.
@@adzreenaziz6255 he seemed like the only responsible adult in the house and he got demonised for it, whereas the mother seems narcissistic and lied to cover for her sick son. I feel so terribly for the father, he didn’t deserve that treatment
Normally an 8 year girl can’t discern how wrong it is to hang out with her known neighbor, who’s a teenage boy.
I was a navy brat living in Jax when this happened, and I had met Maddie once through a friend at a birthday party. She seemed like a normal girl that does normal things. When all this happened I couldn't really process it. Now as a parent of a beautiful girl, this makes my heart hurt.
So gross about the cp being on computer right before the murder. The way she was partial dressed when she was found and that definitely indicate the crime was sexual. Also him having a picture of the victims sister that he would of had to stolen from the home definitely make it seem like he was obsessed with the daughters of the that family.
Yes I think he even killed her so she wouldn’t tell her parents what had happened plus he knew his dad would be absolutely angry !!!
I am a firm believer that her sister could have been is next victim
@@emilieabegue4630 I believe that too or she was his original target and other sister was a victim of opportunity
What's cp?
@@zobby9343 cant tell u that mate
i dont want to be behind the bars
Those tears were only for himself not for his victim. He 100% lured her into his room when she came knocking. Disgusting.
I actually went to school with Josh and we were friends in middle school but we grew apart and got interested in different things...I also knew Maddie from the ymca summer camp. Never would have imagined something like this would have happen....Josh even helped looked for her....I do know Josh was terrified of his father but his father was the type of father that what he said goes and disobey and you will suffer consequences...I was also there in school in the day they picked Josh up and walked him out of wolfson high school in cuffs.
Holy shit... ACTUALLY?? Did you notice any behavior or personality changes in Josh a few days or weeks before Maddies unfortunate passing 🤔 😕 or did all of this happen all out of the blue
@@1nfinite464 kinda just happened out of the blue....Josh at that time was kind of the outcast in school not having to many friends....I had stop talking to him a couple of months before this happened
@@_rebzy3194 no I actually was how else would I know he went to wolfson high school, he also went to dupont middle, and beauclear elementary
Is it true that his dad is abusive?
@@bayo2674 abusive I don't think so but he did have a short fuse but he didn't take no shit his word was law and just like most kids they test to see how far they can push their parents....he wouldn't whip Josh for no reason or like slap or punch Josh in the face that I can remember
I was 8 years old at the same time and only two weeks older than Maddie. I also grew up in Jacksonville. I remember being devastated following this on the news. This was the first murder case I remember understanding from start to finish.
On a side note, as a former 14 year old, I definitely don’t understand how him playing with her wasn’t a red flag. I would sometimes horseplay with my younger cousins, but I couldn’t stand younger kids otherwise.
This isn’t completely accurate, Josh and Maddie were not friends, in fact Maddie’s parents didn’t allow him in their home or near their children because he had broken into their house due to his obsession with Maddie’s older sister
How do you know?
@@insearchofpeace6749 a podcast I listen to called Morbid actually spoke to Maddie’s older sister and she clarified a few misconceptions about the case. It also came out in court that this had happened
Can it be that he was frustrated with her parents and wanted some kind of revenge on them?
Yeah. Didn’t she like come over and beg him to come play catch?
@@greasygod93 that’s what he said happened, but investigators think that he lured her into his yard/house, they found evidence that he was watching extremely violent child porn right before it happened
I can never hear about a waterbed without remembering this case and poor Maddie. Her sister Jessica’s interviews are a must watch. I feel so terrible for her. You can tell she misses her little sister so much. Maddie wasn’t even supposed to be speaking to Josh because he had been basically stalking Jessica and worrying the Clifton parents. I guess she just went over trustingly. :(
I have just a tiny question. The sherif said that they had searched Josh's house before and they didn't find anything suspicious. So like, did they just roughly look at the room or did they actually try to check? Because under a bed is like, a key place to check for something right? :( also, may Maddie's soul rest in peace. She didn't deserve this at all :(
Edit - My theory is that Josh probably first hid Maddie somewhere. Like, beat her half to death, and hid her somewhere. Then the inspection happened. And I say this because if he had killed Maddie in his house, it's definitely not easy to clean up a scene, plus hide a body really well in just half an hour's time. So after the inspection, he retrieved the body and stashed it under his bed.
The way those old waterbeds were, the mattress sat on thick wooden boards attached to baseboards that held the bed up from the floor. You can't put anything or see anything underneath those types of waterbeds without dismantling the baseboards. They probably didn't even think of looking there. As he said, Josh duct-taped the bed back together after putting her body under it, and the only reason his mom saw her is because the bed started falling apart.
If you look at 8:14 in the video, you can see what I'm talking about. Him sleeping on the bed is probably what weakened the tape to the point that it fell apart.
@@litleangelbrook they should have come with a dog who could smell a body
I know this is not the first time when the victim is on the premises and detectives and forensics didn’t bother to do their job properly. The majority of murders conducted by family members, the first thing they should search is the house and then surrounding premises.
@@zceylan Exactly.
@@zceylan I agree, but they probably weren't very suspicious of them based on how involved they were in finding the girl anyways, especially Josh.
Oh poor Maddie. I’m from jacksonville and this story as a kid quite literally HAUNTED me. It was back when hardly any memorial pages where even made, but Maddie had one, one of those old school yahoo made ones. I would visit and read over and over what happened to her.
When I was around 5-6 yo I got molested by a teen boy who lived next to my house at that time. Nobody knew. Thankfully he and his fam moved out before something worse could happen to me.
Josh's dad wasn't wrong to have a strict rule of not letting little girls play inside the house with Josh. Psychopathic tendencies or not, kids (and teenagers, to some degree) need to be supervised, that should be common sense.
Girl we all have experiences like this that we will never forget . My sir also abused me
@@Ladycouture99 yeah that's a sad reality we live in, I feel like all the girls I know, each one of them had been harassed or molested on a different degree.
@Mango The CCaique part two molestation is unwanted touching / SA assault
I’m so sorry that happened. Wishing you well and hope you’re healing
Can't agree more. Teenagers and kids need to be supervised Sadly this day and age their not
I'm not judging or victim-blaming Maddie's mother, she seems like she really loved and cared for her and I feel absolutely horrible for her. But I wouldn't feel comfortable letting my 8 year old be friends with a 14 year old. Especially an 8 year old girl and a 14 year old boy. That's almost twice her age. People don't want to believe that children or teenagers can hurt or prey on other children but it happens all the time.
I saw Maddie's mother do an interview saying they had banned the girls from hanging out with him because he had made a sexual joke to them while in the presence of the parents and grandparents... I was the same age as Maddie was at the time and I remember seeing it on the news and not really understanding what had happened, but after that my parents made sure me and my siblings never went anywhere alone and we never hung out with anyone too old or too young... Me being the oldest, I had to carry a LOT of responsibility but now that I know why It makes a lot of sense now
her parents did actually ban her from being his friend, cops think that what actually happened was Maddie tried to find an extra golf ball (since she was last seen looking for one) and he lured her into his house
Seriously I wouldn't have thought anything of it but if I have a kid I'm never ever letting them chill unsupervised with an older kid with a massive age gap like this.
This was my first thought as a parent. There's no way in a million years I would allow my young daughters to go play with a teenage boy from the neighborhood. Even if I knew them well.
@@makeitrainnnn That's so sad and awful. Wow. I hope that psycho never gets out.
*This happened a few years before I was born, but I kid you not when I heard this story around the time I was 8 years old myself. It has never truly ever left my head. Hearing what happened to her made me terrified to hang out with the bigger kids or even hang out with people I barely know period.* You truly never know what someone’s capable of in the moment of very strong and tense emotions. I knew her face vaguely since I only needed to hear the story once to learn the life long lesson, but just after seeing the thumbnail I knew exactly who you were talking about. I’m 21 now, but what happened here is terrible and it really does live in my head rent free. *If you’ve got abusive parents and you’re doing something you’re not supposed to be doing and you hurt another by accident, CONSOLE THEM TO GET THEM TO STOP FREAKING OUT, DO NOT BEAT THEM INTO SUBMISSION, set an example for yourself do not turn into the bad role model your parents are.* REST IN PARADISE MADDIE 🥺💕 your story has been with me for a very long time and I will never forget it.
They found books about cult in his room and he had been watching videos with adult content an hour before the girl went missing, they also found a photo of her then 11 year old sister in his room. These police/ investigators know what they're doing and have solid evidence to show that it was not an accident - 12:45
All of that was just an excuse to cover up his crimes. He fucking took her shorts and underwear off! You think he did that because he was "afraid of his dad"? Nope. He lured that poor little girl to satisfy his sick twisted mind and killed her on purpose. That evil piece of shit deserves to rot in prison for the rest of his miserable life or even better, get the death penalty.
I grew up in Jacksonville and was 6 years old at the time that this happened. I'm glad that my mom was overprotective of me by not allowing me to stay over at a friend's house and always knowing where I was. Cases like this hit home, literally.
My father also forbade us from having friends older than us (a year or two is fine), playing with neighborhood kids without our family member, going to friends' house for more than an hour or any kind of activity without my parents knowing. During his 46 career as a police officer, he witnessed many cases such as kidnapping, infanticide . many of children were left alone and it happened in a case that the kidnapper was a construction worker near the park where the victim was playing, she was playing, her maid who didn't pay attention to her left her She played away from her and did not care, which led to the kidnapping of the child.
It's been such a long time ago, but I remember my sons and I looking for Maddie. Most of us went right by the house where she was found. I only searched for two days because I was afraid we just might come upon her, and I didn't want my sons to experience that.
What her parents went through was unfathomable, and like others, I truly respect Josh's mother as well.
Omg you were in the neighborhood.. I can only imagine how traumatizing those days of search must have been 😢poor lil girl...
@@aparna603 The amount of people showing up to help find that little girl was huge. I think we all thought the turnout would only be a neighborhood thing, so people came from all parts of Jacksonville volunteered.
I remember looking at my sons and I couldn't help but realize the fragility of life, and there was a collective sense of grief among the searchers. We wanted to find that sweet little girl, and stop the nightmare for her family! I'll never forget it.
It’s been such a long time*
It was such a long time ago*
The Jacksonville community came together beautifully for Maddie, I’ll never forget it. I was but a child and lived in OP at the time so no searching but I watched the news the entire time.
@@r8m8s8 ...bruh
Josh;”I was worried my dad would come home and be upset I injured her” *proceeds to brutally murder her*
To me it does not make any sense because it is not even like she was hit once but several time and he even stabbed her...I won't even talk about how her short was taken off "by accident". The part that really scared me was when she was under his bed all this time and he just sleep in his bed like nothing is out of ordinary...
@@tsukighost7227 He probably most likely r•ped her and tried to cover it up with a lie, because the truth of his crime was too disgusting.
im not defending at all, the fear wasnt he had hurt her she wasnt supposed to be in the house at all. 'no friends over without supervision especially girls' was basically the dads rule
What an absolute tower that little boys mother was, to keep her head and do the right thing and inform the police, my heart also goes out to her and the parents of the little girl. So sad to be robbed of life at any age but as young as she was is truly very very tragic.
I have a daughter the same age. Those little feet sticking out, and how she was clutching the bed frame... heart breaking. I hope her killer never sees the light of day.
My dad knew the kids and had to hold himself back when he found out josh killed her, because my older sister was around her age at the time. My dad said if he’s ever let out he’s going to murder him.
Literally gut wrenching hearing that. 😢 My guess is he made sexual advances towards the girl, and killed her so she didn’t tell her parents. One of the saddest stories I’ve heard on here.
Also, he and Maddie weren't just innocent friends. IIRC, Josh had been obsessed with Maddie's older sister and had been engaging in stalker-like behavior towards her (more than what was mentioned here).
It was mostly from Josh’s side of the story though. That is an important fact. But the way it was executed makes a better story. Which sadly engages more people.
You’ve been super consistent in the quality and quantity of your content. Well done!
Gosh... I remember this like it was yesterday. I live in Jacksonville and my mama owned a hair salon and contacted Maddies mother and they got together and did a fundraiser.. my mama did haircuts all day and we had food and snacks that we bought and sold and gave Maddies Mother every cent we raised that day.. her mother was such a sweet and kind woman despite all she had been through..
"He didn't have a fondness of little girls"
Well that, or he just doesn't want his teenage son to be a trash who brought little girl home to test his "curiosity", i have seen or heard cases about teenage boys did or trying to manipulate younger girls to engage in their "curiosity" , i mean if we take a look from the positive perspective his dad might actually be the only reasonable person in his house 🤷🏻♀️
I'm a Jax native, and I remember seeing her missing fliers in my local gymnastics gym on Lennox Ave when I was 7/8 years old. I was so stupid then thinking she ran off, just to find out later what happened to her. I'll never be able to even look at leopard print clothing without thinking of Maddie. Just like the church around the corner from my house where they found little Cherish Periwinkle. Florida is a terrible place, don't come here.
Josh and Maddie were not friends. Both Clifton girls were told by their Dad to stay away from Josh because he had made disturbing comments to the girls.
It’s really sick to even say but. Just because evidence indicates an assault didn’t take place doesn’t mean it didn’t, and it also doesn’t mean the attack wasn’t sexually motivated.
Why would you let your 8 year old daughter play with a 14 year old boy? Alone? Everyone failed this poor child.
i was thinking this. what were her parents thinking?? i feel like they never even “played baseball” like he said. Josh only brought maddie inside because he already knew what he had planned, he was so paranoid about his parents coming home because he was sexually assaulting her and didn’t want to get caught.
The video already said that the mother was out voting for the elections that day. And her father was at work. Only the grandmother was there to supervise her and possibly her older sister. Please listen carefully to the video before accusing all the members of an already grieving family of neglect.
@@anonview i don’t think that’s what they mean. just in general why are they even letting a 14 year old hangout with a little girl only 8 years old. i understand the parents were usually home when they would “play” but it just seems a little off in the first place. 14 year old boys are curious and immature at that age but also old enough to know what they’re doing. wouldn’t you think he would have some friends his own age he’d want to be playing with?? josh even had a picture of the 12 year old sister in his room. it would be different if it was a cousin or something but nowadays that’s exactly how these things happen in the first place, she needed friends her own age to play with not a 14 year old boy. the dads the only one who actually seemed to understand by not letting him in the house alone with his daughter, no it’s not the parents fault they didn’t know what he was capable of but they also let them hangout together which is weird to me. she may have gotten touched before this specific day, we just don’t know.
Josh had an obsession with Jessie, and Maddie and Jessie were not supposed to be around Josh. Don't blame Maddie's parents, she was not even supposed to be at his home, and she most likely was not even playing baseball with Josh.
@@roseblunt1019 Well, I think that we shouldn't be judging the parents in general because we don't even have any solid fact to judge. First, we don't know if Maddie and Josh had kids their age to play with or not. They might have a bunch of friends already, but Maddie might have agreed to meet up with him because he was the only kid in the neighborhood free at the time. Second, we don't know what specific rules the parents had for Maddie's playtime. What the video did say later on is that the parents told her and her sister not to get too close to Josh. It implies that they already warned her to be careful around the teen. Third, the parents didn't know that a picture of Maddie's sister was in his room until after the investigation. It feels biased and dismissive to conclude something based on personal opinions alone.
I remember when this happened.
I had a daughter about the same age as Maddie.
It forever changed how I viewed the older kids in the neighborhood that wanted to play with the younger ones.
I've also known people who put so much pressure and fear into their kids having friends over in their absence that I do see how one of them could panic if they broke the rules and a kid got hurt, but I don't necessarily believe that's what happened in this case.
So very sad and awful.
Tragic 😥
I don’t believe a word of his story . Everything the father said is what a good father would say . He didn’t listen to his father and look what happened
I never understood what reading about occultism has anything to do with crimes. I've read and studied different
occult traditions for over 15 years and have never even come across anything involving harming, let alone killing, people. Even less so in anything written in the past 300 hundred years.
People are afraid of things they don't understand. When something like this happens, innocence being destroyed by a disturbed,broken person, it's hard for people to wrap their heads around. So instead of trying to find and understand what the motivation truly was they want it to just be "evil" and it's very easy to slap a "evil" sticker on anything occult. So simply put it's stupidity and confirmation bias.
I'm not sure, but in an article it stated the particular occult books he was reading contained violent and graphic rituals, there's also the fact he was watching violent porn and was sort of obsessed with Jessie (Maddie's elder sister).
I think it depends on the person.
Some people who already have a sort of... disposition of selfish sadism and violence...they need a little push, a little inspiration to actually commit such crimes.
Is it genetic, is it taught, is it indirectly internalised? Idk.
For Josh, maybe he already had a sort of darkness in him; his over bearing father, the graphic occult books, the violent porn, and his obsession with Maddie's sister is the inspiration and motivation he needed to commit those vile acts.
Another interesting point is Josh's father didn't want him to play with other kids- especially girls, specifically younger girls- without supervision.
Did he somehow know there was something off about his son? Was he just being conservative? Was he a creep himself? Had Josh shown some perverse behaviour the father had seen? Had he assaulted Josh?
We'll never know.
I find the occult and true crime really fascinating as well, but NEVER have I felt like "acting out".
I've heard these cases of violent murderers reading cult stuff and getting inspiration to commit crimes.
It makes me feel bad and scared sometimes 😓.
Look up the Satanic Panic. Everything from heavy metal to tabletop games were called evil and satanic and it ended up ruining many people's lives. Multiple daycares and preschools were accused of abusing children in occult rituals. Not a single one proven. The McMartin preschool trial is probably the most famous example. If you feel like being furious, read up on that too.
People who are mentally ill tend to gravitate towards things like that
@@byronic-heroine LMAO snake and ladders was apparently considered an act of demonic intent
I was born and raised in Jacksonville, Fl and I remember my mom watching this story on the news. My mom panicked for mine and my sister's safety.
man i salute josh's mother for telling the police officer about maddie's body , a lot of moms would have kept silent and would have helped their kids to cover up for the sake of their love
If the mothers truly loved them they would let them receive punishment and learn
@@MasterIsabelle Learn and never be able to apply what you’ve learnt lol. Some mistakes are just irreversible.
@@shiftyclouds9591 yes so they should just get punished
@@MasterIsabelle so learn for what purpose?
@@Silentguy_78 not to commit crimes
I was expecting them to say the father was abusive but no he was just “intimidating” it’s disgusting they tried to blame him, I suspect the boy tried to rape or whatever with maddie and she refused so he killed her, it’s disgusting, I hope the parents had no part in it.
They didn't.
Mom reported it. Shes a champ for that
His face at 10:30 is so cold and calculating for being so young. So horrifying to know a psychopath could be anyone anywhere. Sending prayers and thoughts to her family
I remember reading somewhere that two 5 year-olds murdered a toddler intentionally.
Looks can be deceiving. Even someone with the most intimidating face and deep voice can have a heart of gold. But someone with the most gentle face are devoid of any heart.
@@kyle4563 That is horrible. They’re born evil.
@@sofiarangel1315 I believe that both environmental circumstances and what genetic influence we have determines whether or not people become evil.
For example, a person born with a brain that lacks empathy, I can see them being able to commit more atrocities.
But for circumstances, I can imagine a normal person raised without the warmth or kindess becoming evil. Or a person given more power it makes them corrupt. Or maybe that person that doesn’t understand the value of life, or even a good person forced in a difficult situation can be evil.
It really depends. It takes more than just strong parental figures and a happy childhood to become good.
Because when we always get shocked to see people doing the most evil, we forget the value of good. We must not forget that there is truly good people, maybe they have flaws, but deep down in their heart, good.
Human goodness, I remember on the news that a 10 year-old girl died saving her siblings from a car. I remember watching firefighters kicking down my neighbor’s door as the fire spread across the house. I watched a video of random people getting together to lift a car to free the person trapped under it. We have to remember that even though there is so much evil, there is also still some good in this world.
@@kyle4563 adults don’t know that kids are capable of murder and they should
When she's asking her mother what she had on it broke my heart. You can hear the desperation in her voice. Any parent can feel that...
I can't see how people wanna blame the father; rules are rules. My step father was the same way, eggshells and rules. Teenagers can be utterly unpredictable, emotional creatures, regardless of gender. I think any parent would agree with not wanting to have a teenage boy alone with a girl, same age or younger. No one knows teen boys better then men who themselves were teens once.
I agree. Don't think their sex or gender really matters here though.. I'd just generally not let a teenager play or hang out with someone younger (or older) unsupervised. Too many things happened to me when I was young that could've been avoided.
Wow. This is completely disturbing. It's hard to believe that someone so young is capable of committing something so horrifying and violent.
@@xenonDX
It's enough to listening to the video while not watching/viewing the disturbing pics.
I have seen worst than this but this was unexpected twist.btw the boy was a psychopath and he was teenager.
And always remember "everyone has their own monster Inside them"
And one more "evil is not born, situation make them evil"
@@firanko2087
👍👍
This case really gets to me...
I couldn't even imagine...
Imagine what it must be like to have something like this happen and then you learn all the details and then you go back home and you're faced with the reality that your child was killed at the house next door... So how could you find peace at home anymore? How could you handle having to drive by or see the parents of the kid who killed your child? That's horrible. Like seriously and on top of that, with all the facts that come to light afterwards, you learn that there was a time she was still possibly alive while at the neighbors.. and then the kid hid her there for 6 days, sleeping on the bed covering her. WTF, this is literally the thing of utter catastrophic nightmares. The girl seemed so sweet too, idk why some of the nicest people get taken away by utter trash rat human beings with no soul... Sorry, but it's just frustrating because we've lost so many good hearted people, and then their entire family gets terribly effected and in a way ruined... Because how could that not tarnish your life and passion in some way... Man, I wish we could find ways to save more people... They searched the neighbors house, I wish they could have found her sooner.. even though it might have been too late still.. it's just I wish they searched like their life depends on it... 💔🫂❤️
@@KatherineLaura6564 You’re sick. ILL. get well soon. god bless you.
@@KatherineLaura6564 ebt are you even commenting?? Your disrespectful comments an behaviour is just as disturbing if not more then the crime. Hope people wright ur name an any thing else that identifies you.. No rest no peace will find you. Tell u correct your thinking an attitude. This i place on you. An SO it will be DONE!!
@@vivianahendrex6937 who said what? Sorry I'm nosey
@@superpuncher4957 lmaaooo same 👀
@@vivianahendrex6937 what did they say?
When I was a kid I had teenage neighbors and my mom never ever let me go to their house. My mom wasn’t strict but she is extremely careful and aware of everything. We should allll always be super aware and think of negatives that could happen. I would never let my daughter go to a boys or girls house without parental supervision. We live in a dangerous world.
This made me tear up. I've been sexually abused when I was 11 to 15 years old. Why are people like this? This is unbelievable. All of this because *my mother left me alone*
Never leave your children alone with ANYONE! You never know what might go wrong.
I'm so sorry to hear that... hope now you are better & stronger than before🫂. May you always have a nice day & all your affairs get easier ❤️
I am doing much better now! Thank you so much 💝
@@MagieSuzuki I'm very happy for you and proud of you! It takes a lot of strength and courage to overcome what you've go through.
I was sexually assaulted by my own cousin at 8 though I do not understand how nobody knew since his room was right next to the living room were my family and his where and also other times my other cousin would be in an out the room cause they shared a room but in those times he never came into the room
I almost got sexually harassed in school by some weird kid, thankfully I avoided it. But even the fact that It almost happened and I didn’t tell anyone still scares me. I can’t imagine the pain the people who actually had it happen has been through.
Hs apology sounds fake as hell. He's exactly where he belongs.
I hope he truly repents..Lord, have mercy 🥺
@@italiantraditionalcatholic2390 -_-
His expressions and emotional reactions feel wrong some how.
@@italiantraditionalcatholic2390 no repenting can ever get rid of the blood on his hands. Why would your god even forgive someone who’s done this, anyway?
@@MONNSTROSITYwe can never know who they will forgive
There is no worse feeling in the world then thinking your kid is missing. And I say that as someone who has been to war more than a couple of time now.
I can deal with bad things happening to me. I cannot deal with bad things happening to my kid.
I was in Jax when this happened, as I drove home they were still looking for her. I saw the posters at rest areas as far as Nashville. A few years later we moved there and I got a job where I met her uncle after I learned his last name and put it together. Her dad worked at the same place, super nice people. There was a huge picture of Maddie in the office today reminded me every time I was the there
I remember when this happened. As someone who was born and raised in Jacksonville FL, you never forget this case!! You never forget Maddie or Casey Anthony!
As a mother myself this is so sad I can't even imagine what her mother was thinking or feeling 💔 my heart breaks for this family
I'm a few years older than him (still a teenager) and I've got cousins her age. It's bizarre for a teenager to choose to hang out with a child so much younger than them. Of course babysitting/supervising them is totally different, but we're not equals, the age gap and the power imbalance is massive, far too much of a difference for there to be a 'friendship'.
And like, what does a teenager, who's worried about work, SATs, school, learning to drive, have in common with a kid who's only care in the world are dolls and legos?
Happened about 30 minutes from my house. I was around 13 or 14 years old then. Now every time I go through that area i always think about Maddie and the hell she endured at the hands of someone she considered a "friend"
Oh god. I would’ve had to move…. I couldn’t look at that street if I were in that neighborhood
Poor Maddie. I hope she didn't suffer because she didn't deserve this. Poor mum for Josh as in finding her in her own son's home. Poor Maddie parent's knowing Josh carried out the murder. My heart goes out to both family.
Unfortunately, the evidence shows that she suffered greatly. So tragic and disgusting.
@@Mckinley-mick sociopath that NEEDS TO STAY LOCKED 🔒 UP FOR EVER!!!
@@mikelee3524 100%, he can not be trusted to be free in society unfortunately.
She suffered greatly
Something not mentioned in this video is that Josh apparently attacked her up to three times because he couldn't kill her successfully the first two times.
Poor baby suffered a long time ):
I’m glad the man sent the police right away. It’s a minor so I am sure they are required to by law, but I can just see a dispatcher or a cop saying “just wait, she will turn up, she probably went for a walk or there must be some friend she’s with.” Sadly, that’s often said about adults. I feel so awful for Maddie and for everyone child who has gone missing.
Although no real conclusion has been made I think the evidence is right infront of our faces of what happened .. he definitely tried to maybe sexually assault her and she kept screaming so then hit her .. 1000% Josh’s dad must’ve knew he had a weird obsession with younger girls that right there is a big sign even the mother saying herself he didn’t like it ESPECIALLY girls to be in his home without supervision I think the mum knows what happened too maybe even possibly knew maddie was still alive however waited for her to die so she couldn’t tell her side of the story .. as a mother of your kids randomly spraying and burning in sense burners your gonna know something isn’t quite right especially at that age you’d wouldn’t allow a child to burn candles in their room anyway it would be in the living room etc . Rip Maddie 🤍
There’s so much completely irrational speculation in that comment, but saying his mother “maybe even waited for Maddie to die” is absurd and over the line.
And a 14 year old in the 90s not being able to burn candles, let alone incense?? What???
@@drnogueiras8783 As I said it’s just my opinion.. looking at this situation I do definitely think as a mother you would know if your child is hiding a dead body in his bedroom you mean to tell me she didn’t smell the body at all or even see any blood etc ? & yes burning candles and incense sticks no matter if it’s this year or in the 90’S it’s a HAZARD even grown adults panic when it comes to things being lit in the house so it is abit weird how his mother never questioned as to why her son had a shit lot of smelling scents in his bedroom all of a sudden . It may not be true and we may not ever know what happened however from what I’ve studied & from what I’ve seen that is my conclusion personally of what happened , I hope little maddie rests in peace it’s really unfair how she was still alive & the boys mother never heard a single noise ? Come on now
@@skdesignns6171 you don’t have to express every opinion that crosses your mind, especially ones blaming someone who is obviously going to have experienced significant lifelong trauma for something as horrific as you did… and especially when it’s completely irrational because yes, she did see the bodily fluids, that’s when she found the body, and that’s when she immediately and frantically reported it to police.
My son is 20, he was absolutely capable of burning a candle at age 14, let alone an incense with no flame (and just the fact that there are occult books and incense holders in the house already tells me this is not an uncommon occurrence, as does having been a teenager myself through the 90s. Blame “the craft”).
I would absolutely never smell air fresheners being sprayed in any other bedroom from anywhere else in my house (or think he had murdered someone I’d I did), teenagers are extremely protective of their privacy and bedrooms, and even having plenty of experience with human decomp, I have seen many, MANY others not recognize or even be bothered by the smell when they did.
Yes, I know it’s an an opinion, one that I think you should reflect on and reconsider expressing on a public forum. You’re entitled to your opinion, and expressing it when it can be that harmful, but why would you?
@@skdesignns6171 the boys mother wasn’t home, and he said himself that he stabbed her before his parents returned. Maybe you just missed a lot of info, but damn.
I think that would have been in the police report...They do a complete forensic autopsy including signs of sexual assault particularly in homicide investigations. It seems to me like Josh has some form of developmental disorder in which makes him behave like a kid therefor playing with kids. I don't think he was ever attracted to kids at all. I 100% believe the baseball story. A baseball hit would be so hard to prove on such autopsy especially if it was a light hit but kids are really sensitive and will cry at the littlest tap. It's possible to be hit by a baseball and sustain no such injuries.
Maddie Clifton attended San Jose Catholic Elementary, where my mother and her siblings, as well as me and my siblings atteneded/are currently attending. My aunt Sarah was best friends with Maddie, and according to my grandmother, everyone from San Jose school was searching for her. I think this is a sick case, and my aunt wouldn’t recover for years later.
The absolute best crime storytelling on the internet. You guys are the greatest!
I agree. For what it’s worth, I subscribe to some bloody great story tellers who research to the enth degree. Congratulations, love everything about your channel 👌
I can’t even imagine how terrifying a situation like this would be for a parent
Don't let him out, alot is to be said for what goes unsaid about this case. This murder won't be his last, next time he will do his best not to get caught.
Release the boy.
@@joaquimrodriguez8961 for what?
Exactly please don't let him out
@@joaquimrodriguez8961 why??? this happened in 98', he's not a boy anymore. also, WHY??
@@joaquimrodriguez8961 ??? Are you really defending someone who SA A kid?
I refuse to believe Josh "was just a normal kid" before they found out. There's probably signs and behaviour that in retrospect made more sense to his true nature.
What’s so sad about these cases is how scared kids like Maddie must have been. Rest In Peace ❤️
I remember this case being on the news like it was yesterday. It saddened me back then and it still saddens me today, more than 20 years later. She was about my age, so that made it hit even harder. Such a tragic case
I hate to say it, but I rewound when it said a 14 year old boy who was close friends with an 8 year old girl and the last person to see her alive… I would absolutely not have considered him “the most unsuspecting person”
Your cases are always such well researched and narrated, not to mention just an excellent quality. Thank you so much for all the time and effort it must entail.
This video was excellent. But if you want some more context I suggest Eleanor Neale‘s video. It discusses the relationship he had with Maddys older sister which seems kind of important to the case and the fact that not only was he not supposed to have people home when his parents were around but he wasn’t supposed to talk to her or her family at all because of a past incident.
Yeah, she goes more into detail and it’s really much more informative. Eleanor is my go to true crime TH-camr because I love how informative and detail-oriented she is
Respect to the mom for reporting her own son for what he had done, that must’ve been hard. I’ve unfortunately also heard way many cases of the parents of murderers, especially their mothers, just sticking on the side of their child.
Disgusting to protect a criminal, even if it is a family member!
@@DarthPferd yes, definitely! Especially if the criminal had hurt / killed someone
@@Aiko_63194nd honestly, it’s parents who cover for their young AND adult children. Adult! Like I’m their 40s and they cover for them and forbid relatives from coming forward to the police. I just watched a Dateline with my mother where this old bitch was interviewed and caught lying but they couldn’t find out who killed this girl. Her son had been a suspected in killing her, she was his ex wife. Then ten years later the ex-husband’s brother came forward to say that he had been forbidden from telling but that his brother had confessed to their mother. THEIR MOTHER THE OLD LYING BITCH. That he’d killed someone and she covered for him and forced the brother to keep silent.
Now that she was dead, he’d finally come forward. A decade of waiting. A decade of that ex-husband telling their children he didn’t know who killed their mother.
Well I'm about to leave for the Dr to start chemo, this is exactly what I need for my drive. Love you raven and everyone, please be safe and bless you all.
Good luck on your visit. You’ll get through this, I hope everything goes as smoothly as possible for you.
Sending healing hugs
Wishing the best for you and your family.
How are you now?
I live in Jacksonville and vividly remember this case. During a Sunday Jacksonville Jaguar game, during half time they had a Navy flyover in the “missing man” formation to honor Maddie. She was found just days later.